Brian Flores sues the NFL for racism

[Parkbandit]

Brian Flores sues NFL, Giants, Dolphins, Broncos claiming racism in hiring process.



Former Miami Dolphins head coach Brian Flores has filed a class-action lawsuit against the NFL, the New York Giants, the Denver Broncos and the Dolphins claiming racial discrimination in the league's hiring process for coaches and executives.


Flores filed the suit in the Southern District of New York on Tuesday. In it he accuses Dolphins owner Stephen Ross of offering him $100,000 for every loss in an effort to tank for the No. 1 draft pick during the 2019 NFL season, and includes texts he alleges are from New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick demonstrating that the Giants conducted an interview with Flores while knowing that they intended to hire Brian Daboll as head coach.

https://au.sports.yahoo.com/brian-flores-sues-nfl-giants-claiming-racial-discrimination-in-hiring-process-211356727.html

[Tgo01]

The guy is claiming the NFL is racist while acknowledging that most players are black, but since he didn't get hired to be a coach then racism?

What a weird guy.

[Parkbandit]

The guy is claiming the NFL is racist while acknowledging that most players are black, but since he didn't get hired to be a coach then racism?

What a weird guy.

1 out of 32 teams has a black coach.

[Gelston]

I think he has a case here. The job was decided before he was even interviewed, they were only interviewing him because of the Rooney rule.

[Parkbandit]

I think he has a case here. The job was decided before he was even interviewed, they were only interviewing him because of the Rooney rule.

I've interviewed hundreds of people and I know when I have a big position to fill, I schedule a week full of interviews.

If I find the candidate I want to hire on Day 1, I still go through the interviews.. even though I have that candidate doing drug / background screenings and I will hire that individual as long as he/she passes the screening process.

It has zero to do with race though.

[Parkbandit]

Also, the NY Giants hired Joe Schoen as their new GM. Joe came from the Bills front office.. where he already knew and had a relationship with Brian Daboll, the new Giants head coach.

It's going to be difficult for Flores to prove the reason he didn't get the job was because he is black... given the relationship between new GM and new coach.

[Gelston]

I've interviewed hundreds of people and I know when I have a big position to fill, I schedule a week full of interviews.

If I find the candidate I want to hire on Day 1, I still go through the interviews.. even though I have that candidate doing drug / background screenings and I will hire that individual as long as he/she passes the screening process.

It has zero to do with race though.

They already had it circulating the other guy was hired.

[Parkbandit]

They already had it circulating the other guy was hired.

As soon as they hired the new GM, I knew this would be the new coach. Daboll was at the top of Schoen's list.

Now.. maybe you can make the argument that the only reason they interviewed Flores was for public image or to "follow" the Rooney Rule... and I could actually see that. But a ex-Bills front office was made the GM.. and he wanted to hire the coach he had known from the Bills for years.... don't see that Schoen didn't hire Flores because he was black.

[Gelston]

As soon as they hired the new GM, I knew this would be the new coach. Daboll was at the top of Schoen's list.

Now.. maybe you can make the argument that the only reason they interviewed Flores was for public image or to "follow" the Rooney Rule... and I could actually see that. But a ex-Bills front office was made the GM.. and he wanted to hire the coach he had known from the Bills for years.... don't see that Schoen didn't hire Flores because he was black.

That is exactly what he is saying.

[Parkbandit]

That is exactly what he is saying.

All the Giants have to show is when the interviews for each candidate was scheduled and that will pretty much debunk that suit.

[Gelston]

All the Giants have to show is when the interviews for each candidate was scheduled and that will pretty much debunk that suit.

Except for the text from Belichick coming out that they hired prior to the interview. I mean, I know it happens, but they aren't supposed to circulate that shit, especially outside the organization. It definitely shows they were NOT following the Rooney rule, which is the entire crux of the matter.

[Parkbandit]

Except for the text from Belichick coming out that they hired prior to the interview. I mean, I know it happens, but they aren't supposed to circulate that shit, especially outside the organization. It definitely shows they were NOT following the Rooney rule, which is the entire crux of the matter.

The Rooney Rules states that they have to interview minority candidates.

They followed this rule, even if they had no intention after interviewing Daboll of hiring anyone else... regardless of the amount of melon in their skin.

And Bilicheck could have been speculating like I was... both the GM and Coach had a strong Bills connection. As soon as they said they hired Schoen, I sent a text to my brother in law, telling him that Daboll was going to be their new HC.

[Tgo01]

The Rooney rule sounds racist and ineffective at the same time.

Sure sounds like this guy was interviewed only so they could satisfy the Rooney rule because from what I can understand the Rooney rule doesn't require the team to give more consideration for "diverse" candidates, it literally just requires the team to interview at least one "diverse" candidate.

[Gelston]

The Rooney Rules states that they have to interview minority candidates.

They followed this rule, even if they had no intention after interviewing Daboll of hiring anyone else... regardless of the amount of melon in their skin.

And Bilicheck could have been speculating like I was... both the GM and Coach had a strong Bills connection. As soon as they said they hired Schoen, I sent a text to my brother in law, telling him that Daboll was going to be their new HC.

It also says they have to be CONSIDERED. If they already had their pick before he was ever even interviewed, he was never actually considered. Again, they NEVER should have let it leak outside their own organization. Belichick shouldn't have known.




Sure sounds like this guy was interviewed only so they could satisfy the Rooney rule

That is exactly why he is suing. The text from Belichick is proof they were only doing it to satisfy that requirement.

[Parkbandit]

It also says they have to be CONSIDERED. If they already had their pick before he was ever even interviewed, he was never actually considered. Again, they NEVER should have let it leak outside their own organization. Belichick shouldn't have known.

When the new GM sat down and said "Let's get a list of possible candidates", Flores was on that list. From all intents and purposes, he sounds like a decent person and a good coach. But when they interviewed Daboll, they knew then and there that they had their next coach. Sometimes during the interview, people just know that they found the person they want in that position.. but they still go through the interviewing process with the other candidates. I know I always did. It doesn't mean it's racist.


That is exactly why he is suing. The text from Belichick is proof they were only doing it to satisfy that requirement.

They might be calling me in to testify as well, since I sent that text to my brother in law regarding the new Giants HC.

[Gelston]

When the new GM sat down and said "Let's get a list of possible candidates", Flores was on that list. From all intents and purposes, he sounds like a decent person and a good coach. But when they interviewed Daboll, they knew then and there that they had their next coach. Sometimes during the interview, people just know that they found the person they want in that position.. but they still go through the interviewing process with the other candidates. I know I always did. It doesn't mean it's racist.



They might be calling me in to testify as well, since I sent that text to my brother in law regarding the new Giants HC.

I think the Belichick text is enough. And again, for the third or fourth time... They should have shut.... the.... fuck.... up.... unti lthe interviews were all done. This wouldn't even be an issue if they didn't for whatever reason tell people outside their own organizations.

[kutter]

I find all of this so absurd. The NFL only cares about one thing, making money. If they thought a purple people eater from Mars would get them the wins they needed they would hire it. They have given play time to some of the most reprehensible people, people I would not trust anyone I care about around, but they did it because they scored points and made them money.

The NFL for sure will settle and the teams likely too for an undisclosed amount and I hope it is enough for him to live on the rest of his life since it is pretty unlikely anyone will be offering him a coaching job again. Well, maybe some FCS college school in west Texas might I guess.

[Gelston]

I find all of this so absurd. The NFL only cares about one thing, making money. If they thought a purple people eater from Mars would get them the wins they needed they would hire it. They have given play time to some of the most reprehensible people, people I would not trust anyone I care about around, but they did it because they scored points and made them money.

The NFL for sure will settle and the teams likely too for an undisclosed amount and I hope it is enough for him to live on the rest of his life since it is pretty unlikely anyone will be offering him a coaching job again. Well, maybe some FCS college school in west Texas might I guess.

Apparently they also tried to get him to lose games to get a better draft position. He refused. He was fired for being difficult to work with.

[kutter]

Apparently they also tried to get him to lose games to get a better draft position. He refused. He was fired for being difficult to work with.

And since when is that illegal? I mean the Colts had HUGE signs saying, SUCK FOR LUCK! If the season is a washout anyway, it makes sense to salvage whatever you can from it, even if that is a a better draft position. And the last time I checked the owner was the boss and the coach worked for them, so if your boss tells you to do something and you don't they have the right to shitcan your ass.

[Parkbandit]

Apparently they also tried to get him to lose games to get a better draft position. He refused. He was fired for being difficult to work with.

For a man and coach, love him for standing up for winning. For an employee that winning gave us Tua Tagovailoa instead of maybe Joe Burrow, he was difficult to work with and may have cost us a franchise QB.

Maybe the NFL should change the way they select the draft order if they don't want coaches/owners doing everything they can do to get better draft spots.

[Parkbandit]

I think the Belichick text is enough. And again, for the third or fourth time... They should have shut.... the.... fuck.... up.... unti lthe interviews were all done. This wouldn't even be an issue if they didn't for whatever reason tell people outside their own organizations.

Perhaps.

But he is also saying this happened to him previously... 2019 Denver Broncos.

And Belichick didn't send him any texts prior to his interview there.

[kutter]

For a man and coach, love him for standing up for winning. For an employee that winning gave us Tua Tagovailoa instead of maybe Joe Burrow, he was difficult to work with and may have cost us a franchise QB.

Maybe the NFL should change the way they select the draft order if they don't want coaches/owners doing everything they can do to get better draft spots.

I agree you want someone that is never happy with a losing performance, that being said you also have to play the long game as well as the short.

As far as Tua, I will say this, I am an LSU guy, so when he was at Alabama I would have liked to break both his legs and that is because he is a gifted quarterback. The only thing I can say bad about him is he seems a little fragile. That being said it is not all his fault since teams will go out and get a franchise quarterback and not spend the money/draft picks to get a line to protect him, add in that the Fins did not have a running game to speak of and there is an awful lot of reasons that Tua has struggled. I happen to think he can be a franchise QB but no one can do it alone, not even that guy that just retired to his supermodel wife.

[Parkbandit]

I agree you want someone that is never happy with a losing performance, that being said you also have to play the long game as well as the short.

As far as Tua, I will say this, I am an LSU guy, so when he was at Alabama I would have liked to break both his legs and that is because he is a gifted quarterback. The only thing I can say bad about him is he seems a little fragile. That being said it is not all his fault since teams will go out and get a franchise quarterback and not spend the money/draft picks to get a line to protect him, add in that the Fins did not have a running game to speak of and there is an awful lot of reasons that Tua has struggled. I happen to think he can be a franchise QB but no one can do it alone, not even that guy that just retired to his supermodel wife.

He did it in New England.

Then again in Tampa.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I think if you want to see racism in something, you will. That and microaggressions.

[Shaps]

This is why "mandates" are bullshit.

The NFL is performance based. Unless specific actions, words, or evidence is provided that someone was not hired based upon their skin color... there should be no "requirements" IMO.

I understand why they did it at first, but the only way past "racism" is to stop forcing "race" into a performance based position.

It's not teams fault if they have a list of candidates, interview half, decide they like someone and want to hire them... but because they are "mandated" by the league to complete the interviews... that somehow they are suddenly racist.

People complain there are no Black owners. What about Asian owners? What about Indian coaches? What about "insert whatever adjective you want" coach/owner/GM.

Sometimes there is racism, and racist people. Most the time, in a performance/results based industry that only worries about money.... no one gives two shits what color someone is if they win.

So the NFL wasn't racist against Flores for the past 17 years as he worked in football... but because he got fired after a sub .500 record and didn't happen to get a job immediately, it suddenly is?

Should the Black GM's for teams be called "Uncle Toms" for hiring white coaches? Are they racists too?

Make everything about race, race becomes the only thing that matters... /shrug.

Shame to see.

Edit: Also funny to me how no one points this out... Miami's GM... is Black... so he must be racist too... since Flores got fired. Cracks me up that every article/pundit/comment on his firing leaves that tidbit out.

[Parkbandit]

This is why "mandates" are bullshit.

The NFL is performance based. Unless specific actions, words, or evidence is provided that someone was not hired based upon their skin color... there should be no "requirements" IMO.

I understand why they did it at first, but the only way past "racism" is to stop forcing "race" into a performance based position.

It's not teams fault if they have a list of candidates, interview half, decide they like someone and want to hire them... but because they are "mandated" by the league to complete the interviews... that somehow they are suddenly racist.

People complain there are no Black owners. What about Asian owners? What about Indian coaches? What about "insert whatever adjective you want" coach/owner/GM.

Sometimes there is racism, and racist people. Most the time, in a performance/results based industry that only worries about money.... no one gives two shits what color someone is if they win.

So the NFL wasn't racist against Flores for the past 17 years as he worked in football... but because he got fired after a sub .500 record and didn't happen to get a job immediately, it suddenly is?

Should the Black GM's for teams be called "Uncle Toms" for hiring white coaches? Are they racists too?

Make everything about race, race becomes the only thing that matters... /shrug.

Shame to see.

Edit: Also funny to me how no one points this out... Miami's GM... is Black... so he must be racist too... since Flores got fired. Cracks me up that every article/pundit/comment on his firing leaves that tidbit out.

Flores was 24-25 over 3 seasons and had a winning record in the last 2. By all accounts, he is a decent football coach.

[Gelston]

So, he told the Saints what he was about to do before he did it. I think he is eyeing that job.

[Shaps]

Flores was 24-25 over 3 seasons and had a winning record in the last 2. By all accounts, he is a decent football coach.

No doubt. I think he is a great coach, and Miami were dipshits to fire him. Doesn't mean I think they are racists.

Two totally different things.

It's also not to say, that he wouldn't have gotten a job in a week or two with another team. Now, not so likely.

Just weird... when he was working and had a job - nothing racist about it... he gets fired, for nothing to do about his skin color, and isn't immediately given a job... it's suddenly about race.

[Shaps]

So, he told the Saints what he was about to do before he did it. I think he is eyeing that job.

Saints would have been smart to hire him... now though, not so sure. That type of media coverage just sucks if you're management.

[Gelston]

Saints would have been smart to hire him... now though, not so sure. That type of media coverage just sucks if you're management.

The Saints have shown they don't give a fuck about media coverage.

[Shaps]

The Saints have shown they don't give a fuck about media coverage.

Fair enough LOL.

**searches around for some paper bags**

**hands paper bag to Gelston**

Remember the 80s!

[subzero]

I think he has a case here. The job was decided before he was even interviewed, they were only interviewing him because of the Rooney rule.

That's the problem with something like the Rooney Rule. There is zero chance Flores was the first minority 'candidate' interviewed for a position a team already decided was going to someone else for whatever reason.

I don't think it's an easy thing to fix and the Rooney Rule is far from perfect. When you're forced to check a box in order to complete a hiring, sometimes checking that box is simply going to be a matter of going through the motions. There will be times when it's a legit passing on a minority candidate and others where it might lean more toward the shady side or even just a not-so-clear-cut situation where a white guy wins out (it would be interesting to know the number of white coaching candidates vs minority candidates available each year).

Buuut! How does an outsider see the results of a hiring process and decide that this individual/group/team doesn't truly believe the white person they hired is better for the job than the minority candidate(s) that didn't get it? You can't go back years later if the white guy sucks and say, "Oh, that guy was terrible! They clearly just didn't want the non-white person"

As for the whole Flores situation in general... ugh. I'm a Dolphins fan. I thought it was a stupid move to fire Flores; who the fuck are they going to replace him with? They wanted DaBoll. He's staying up in NY. Now they're fucked. I will want to hurt someone if I hear that they hire Kellen Fucking Moore as their HC. I liked Flores as their coach and in general I think the NFL is too quick to move on from people. When I first saw this story come out, I couldn't help but think, "Oh god. Here we go".

There's been a little more to come out since that initial story and I don't know, kind of seems like there might be something to it. Not so much with the racism aspect - I don't think any of us as outsiders who don't know any of the people involved and weren't part of the interviewing process can offer any real insight on that. Maybe he's right, maybe he's not. We do know that one team did hire him, though, so... /shrug

To me, what might be the bigger issue in this is the allegations of team owner Stephen Ross offering 100k per loss in order for the team to tank and get a higher draft pick so they could take Burrow. I think that could have some serious repercussions for Ross and potentially the team if they are able to prove that he was offering money for them to lose. If it turns out to be true, do they force Ross out and sell the team?


Also, the NY Giants hired Joe Schoen as their new GM. Joe came from the Bills front office.. where he already knew and had a relationship with Brian Daboll, the new Giants head coach.

It's going to be difficult for Flores to prove the reason he didn't get the job was because he is black... given the relationship between new GM and new coach.

Stuff like that is exactly what makes it so hard to pin racism on people in these cases. A LOT of these guys know each other. Whether they've learned and worked together or whatever, personal ties do exist and are likely to influence hirings.



The Rooney rule sounds racist and ineffective at the same time.

Sure sounds like this guy was interviewed only so they could satisfy the Rooney rule because from what I can understand the Rooney rule doesn't require the team to give more consideration for "diverse" candidates, it literally just requires the team to interview at least one "diverse" candidate.

Heh, they're talking about expanding it to require more minority interviews. That is NOT the solution, morons!


I find all of this so absurd. The NFL only cares about one thing, making money. If they thought a purple people eater from Mars would get them the wins they needed they would hire it. They have given play time to some of the most reprehensible people, people I would not trust anyone I care about around, but they did it because they scored points and made them money.


Oh, you mean the NFL that gave the Michael Vicks and Ray Rices opportunities to play after they did some foul shit, but is a horrible bunch of racist slave drivers because they wouldn't let Kaepernick play foosball anymore because, ya know, he's (half) black? Maybe the NFL just hates half-black people. And Tim Tebow.


And since when is that illegal? I mean the Colts had HUGE signs saying, SUCK FOR LUCK! If the season is a washout anyway, it makes sense to salvage whatever you can from it, even if that is a a better draft position. And the last time I checked the owner was the boss and the coach worked for them, so if your boss tells you to do something and you don't they have the right to shitcan your ass.

I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure there are laws governing things like that. I believe it is safe to say that, no, an owner cannot tell a coach to intentionally lose games and it's ok because he's the owner. It doesn't work that way in this type of sporting league.

Also, considering that the league has gambling ads being run during games and now has a team in Vegas, an owner offering a coach cash incentives to lose games for a higher draft pick (or any reason) is a huge issue for the league and their image in general. As far as I'm aware, one big hurdle the league had with putting a team in Vegas was gambling. Plus, the NFL often touts the parity they've created with the different changes to various things (conference/division re-ordering, scheduling, etc) they've made over the years. They do not want things like this to be taking place. It's not good for anyone including the team(s) that might see some short-term benefits from it. See: Boxing.


He did it in New England.

Then again in Tampa.

Crazy that he didn't want to go do something really cool like get the Jags or Texans a Super Bowl win, huh? Nah... let's go to a stacked team. Fuck that Jaguar nonsense! A single player has never, nor will ever, win a Super Bowl.


Flores was 24-25 over 3 seasons and had a winning record in the last 2. By all accounts, he is a decent football coach.

And he did it with a fairly limited squad.

[Parkbandit]

Crazy that he didn't want to go do something really cool like get the Jags or Texans a Super Bowl win, huh? Nah... let's go to a stacked team. Fuck that Jaguar nonsense! A single player has never, nor will ever, win a Super Bowl.

I wouldn't consider many of the Patriots years as a "stacked team" at all... especially on offense. And the bucs had records of 5-11, 5-11 and 7-9 in the 3 years prior to Brady getting there. He immediately changed the entire culture at One Buc Place. It takes a team to win the Superbowl.. but it only takes 1 great player to change the mindset of the players/coaches.

[subzero]

I wouldn't consider many of the Patriots years as a "stacked team" at all... especially on offense.

Much as I hate to say it, we can't exactly discount Bellichick's reign as the coach there, either.


And the bucs had records of 5-11, 5-11 and 7-9 in the 3 years prior to Brady getting there. He immediately changed the entire culture at One Buc Place. It takes a team to win the Superbowl.. but it only takes 1 great player to change the mindset of the players/coaches.

Oh, a player can definitely put a team over the hump. I just can't agree that a single player can win a Super Bowl as many like to suggest with someone like Brady.

[Shaps]

Much as I hate to say it, we can't exactly discount Bellichick's reign as the coach there, either.



Oh, a player can definitely put a team over the hump. I just can't agree that a single player can win a Super Bowl as many like to suggest with someone like Brady.

I would agree for 99.9% of players.. but you can't discount that he only missed the playoffs 1 time... in 22 years... and that 1 time? His first full year at QB.

That's 21 years straight - with 10 SB appearances - with 7 SB wins.

If a single player is not able to make that impact, then other players would have similar records because it's a "team game". The year he was injured, NE didn't make the playoffs. The year he left, NE didn't make the playoffs. TB hadn't made the playoffs in like 15+ years... he joins, and they suddenly do.

He's the .1% that has proven it through statistics, that his presence mattered.

It's crazy (and yes I recognize the Team aspect), but his influence is something that is tough to establish and quantify... because we've never seen someone else do it.

[subzero]

I would agree for 99.9% of players.. but you can't discount that he only missed the playoffs 1 time... in 22 years... and that 1 time? His first full year at QB.

That's 21 years straight - with 10 SB appearances - with 7 SB wins.

If a single player is not able to make that impact, then other players would have similar records because it's a "team game". The year he was injured, NE didn't make the playoffs. The year he left, NE didn't make the playoffs. TB hadn't made the playoffs in like 15+ years... he joins, and they suddenly do.

He's the .1% that has proven it through statistics, that his presence mattered.

It's crazy (and yes I recognize the Team aspect), but his influence is something that is tough to establish and quantify... because we've never seen someone else do it.

So, let's simplify this. Are you telling me that at virtually any point in Brady's career, he could have been put on any team in the league and taken them to the Super Bowl?

[Parkbandit]

So, let's simplify this. Are you telling me that at virtually any point in Brady's career, he could have been put on any team in the league and taken them to the Super Bowl?

I'm good friends with 2 people who have worked for the Bucs for 10+ years.

They said when Tom Brady was brought in, he brought a new culture to the team that transformed them from a .500 football team to a Superbowl contender. Everyone changed and anyone who didn't want to buy into the program either left or was let go.... from the kitchen staff to the front office to team players.

Could Brady do that to any team 2 years ago? No. You had to have a full buy into him from everyone involved in the team. The Bucs were a perfect fit for Brady to transform... but it was Brady that was the catalyst and the momentum for that change.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So, let's simplify this. Are you telling me that at virtually any point in Brady's career, he could have been put on any team in the league and taken them to the Super Bowl?

There is no way to answer that except hypothetically. But if you look at his stats I'd be inclined to say he's one of the very very few that could possibly do that, yes.

I'm not even a huge fan of his, never really payed any attention until the last 3-4 years. Dude has more rings than any FRANCHISE. He has some leadership quality, some talent, that the vast majority do not. Yes, luck plays into it some, but talented and hardworking people make their own luck as well. Also ball deflaters.

[Parkbandit]

The date of the text Bill Belichick sent to Brian Flores was 3 days prior to the interview the Giants had with Brian Daboll.

Looks like he had the same speculation I had and not actual inside information.

This is backed by Bill's actual text: "Sorry - I (expletived) this up. I double checked & I misread the text. I think they are naming (Brian) Daboll. I’m sorry about that,”

Not "I have inside information" or "I heard from Frank at the Giants"... but "I think".

[subzero]

They said when Tom Brady was brought in, he brought a new culture to the team that transformed them from a .500 football team to a Superbowl contender. Everyone changed and anyone who didn't want to buy into the program either left or was let go.... from the kitchen staff to the front office to team players.

Could Brady do that to any team 2 years ago? No. You had to have a full buy into him from everyone involved in the team. The Bucs were a perfect fit for Brady to transform... but it was Brady that was the catalyst and the momentum for that change.

I've already said that I agree a player like that can put a good team over the hump. Teams like the 0-16 Lions or 1-15 Dolphins... not gonna happen regardless of how great a single player is. Mike McDaniel recently summed up my point here:

"I haven't seen a quarterback win a football game by himself ever, really," McDaniel said. "He has to have somebody to throw to, he better not be getting tackled before he throws so somebody better block, and the defense had better not allow them to score"