THW Ambushing Rogue Build Check

[Wheelerm]

Played regularly about 8-10 years ago, left for a few, came back for a minute around 2016/2017, but had to leave soon afterward due to some changes in my career path, and now I'm back again. I understand some things have changed and I also noticed upon logging in for the first time since these changes that some CMAN changes were made as well.

I have a few characters, and it seems that all of them might have been affected, so I'll be asking a lot of questions across all of my professions with respect to their builds.

For my 51 DE Rogue, he is an ambushing THW (maul) rogue. He picks his own boxes and others if they are like level or less and some over his level, if not too awfully high. He is step 13 in Voln and wears a chainmail shirt. Note that FA and Survival are only 2 ranks because I intend to 2x from here on out to average 1x by Cap, but I could easily drop these if you think those points are better spent elsewhere. Please review his build and let me know if any changes are recommended:


Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 152 52 (1X)
Combat Maneuvers...................| 152 52 (1X)
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 204 104 (2X)
Ambush.............................| 152 52 (1X)
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 30 6 (Going to 15 ranks as I can afford)
Physical Fitness...................| 176 76 (1.5X)
Dodging............................| 201 101 (2X)
Arcane Symbols.....................| 35 7
Magic Item Use.....................| 40 8
Harness Power......................| 50 10 (More ranks as I can afford them)
Survival...........................| 10 2 (Can eliminate, but plan to 2X til Cap for average of 1X)
Disarming Traps....................| 203 103 (2X)
Picking Locks......................| 203 103 (2X)
Stalking and Hiding................| 207 107 (2X; Enhancive worn for +4 ranks)
Perception.........................| 177 77 (1.5X)
Climbing...........................| 108 26 (Working up to 50-60 as I can afford)
Swimming...........................| 93 21 (Working up to 50-60 as I can afford)
First Aid..........................| 10 2 (Can eliminate, but plan to 2X til Cap for average of 1X)

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 10 (Stopping here)

Looking at getting that last Evade Spec as soon as I get 12 CMAN points (Level 56):


Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheapshots cheapshots 1/5 Rogue Guild
Combat Toughness toughness 3/3
Cunning Defense cdefense 3/5
Evade Specialization evadespec 2/3
Footstomp footstomp 1/5 Rogue Guild
Nosetweak nosetweak 1/5 Rogue Guild
Stun Maneuvers stunman 1/5 Rogue Guild
Subdue subdue 1/5 Rogue Guild
Sweep sweep 1/5 Rogue Guild

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 7

And this looks new (or maybe I never knew it existed before). FEATS. I'm not at all sure what this is or how I got trained in some of it...I also don't know how to use things like Vanish or Silent Strike (these were CMAN things I trained in before).


Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Absorb Magic absorbmagic 0/1
Dispel Magic dispelmagic 0/1
Kroderine Soul kroderinesoul 0/1
Light Armor Proficiency lightarmor 1/1
Martial Mastery martialmastery 1/1
Scale Armor Proficiency scalearmor 1/1
Shadow Dance shadowdance 1/1
Silent Strike silentstrike 5/5
Vanish vanish 1/1

The output listed above was generated based on the following filters:
Availability: rogue
Type: all
Category: all
Subcategory: all

Thanks for any help and advice you can offer.

[Mobius1]

I assume using a maul is an RP choice? Mechanically speaking it's not really much good for a rogue. It's also extremely difficult if you also pick, since you will be pretty deprived of TP's.

First of all I think you should drop the spell ranks. If you get some lock mastery ranks, you can use LM Focus which is better than locklores. As an ambushing rogue, you don't really have a lot of need for ewave, and you just don't have the luxury to spread your TP's that thin.

You really should get 2x ambush, and I'd also push your hiding to 120 ranks so you get 1 second hiding RT.

I guess I can't speak for how good cunning defense is at lower levels, but it's probably still not worth it anymore with the latest cman changes.

Those are the things that stand out to me.

[kutter]

I tend to agree with Mobius on the maul, stuff dies so easily from hiding that a maul is way overkill. If you are committed to THW I would say you are much better off with a katana or bastard sword, they are both faster and easier to aim, but honestly my TWC rogue only hits with his second wakizashi maybe 30-40% of the time, otherwise he is getting one shot kills.

My rogue is capped and I have never felt the need for anything past 404 in spells and with you wearing chain you hinderance must be a pain in the ass anyway. My rogue uses LAM and he is in padded brig, honestly I am still on the fence about this or MBP. For now my rogue is only 1X in ambush and it does seem to have hampered him too much but 2X is a post-cap goal. I abandoned being a skinner a while back, maybe one day again but without the training of an empath or the spell of a ranger at best you will just be a midland skinner at the cost of a lot of TP's to do it.

It looks to me like your goal is to be a hunter that picks which is the type of rogue I like. If you are married to the maul for RP reasons then stay with it, but if not, I think the fist thing you should do is think about a weapon change.

[Wheelerm]

I was a TWC (backsword with main gauche) ambushing rogue from the very beginning and used a fixskill to swap over to THW ambushing with a maul to see if I would like it…I was looking to try something new and when I last tried UAC, it was still kind of new and I don’t remember falling in love with it.

I only tried one hunting expedition with this build, and the ambushing of the head was always one-hit kills, but a 6 sec RT. I found a plated box during that hunt and I spent half of my mana on spell hindrance from the mail shirt and nearly the balance of my mana before I finally got a favorable roll to get it open.

I prefer the TWC ambush build, but was hoping this build could be better optimized for my next fixskills. Taking your advice into account, I think I will drop spells down to unlock.

I don’t remember training in cunning defense, so not sure how I got it. Maybe I did train in it and just don’t remember.

Thanks to you both for your analysis.

[Mobius1]

If THW is not a RP based choice, you should for sure drop it. You should be killing with your ambushes just fine with a smaller weapon, except it will give you less RT, have a higher aim chance, and will cost way less TP's.

TWC is the absolute strongest killing potential as a melee rogue, if you utilize Whirling Dervish, though you have to pay the huge MOC cost for that. I prefer using a shield myself, because I like being a hard mofo to kill.

It's been double guild points like crazy thanks to Bbee, so work your LM up and drop ALL of your spells, not just 3 ranks. You can wedge instead of pop boxes if needed. Or toss em in a barrel and consider them a small price to pay for all those extra TP's.

[Nordred]

This is what I've done with my THW rogue and I'll say he is a lot more fun to hunt than Nordred was/is.

Base:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Armor Use..........................| 140 40 40
Shield Use.........................| 0 0 0
Combat Maneuvers...................| 182 82 82
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 190 90 90
Ambush.............................| 182 82 82
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 70 15 15
Physical Fitness...................| 145 45 45
Dodging............................| 184 84 84
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25 25
Harness Power......................| 35 7 7
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 0 0 0
Picking Locks......................| 0 0 0
Stalking and Hiding................| 190 90 90
Perception.........................| 186 86 86
Pickpocketing......................| 0 0 0

Training Points: 0 Phy 0 Mnt (192 Mnt converted to Phy)

Enhancive:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 140 40
Shield Use.........................| 6 1
Combat Maneuvers...................| 195 95
Two-Handed Weapons.................| 238 138
Ambush.............................| 185 85
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 70 15
Physical Fitness...................| 145 45
Dodging............................| 191 91
Arcane Symbols.....................| 70 15
Magic Item Use.....................| 105 25
Harness Power......................| 35 7
Mental Lore - Manipulation.........| 5 1
Picking Locks......................| 15 3
Stalking and Hiding................| 190 90
Perception.........................| 194 94
Pickpocketing......................| 4 0

Training Points: 0 Phy 0 Mnt (192 Mnt converted to Phy)

Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheapshots cheapshots 4/5 Rogue Guild
Combat Focus focus 2/5
Combat Toughness toughness 1/3
Coup de Grace coupdegrace 4/5
Divert divert 6/6 Rogue Guild
Evade Specialization evadespec 2/3
Eyepoke eyepoke 4/5 Rogue Guild
Footstomp footstomp 4/5 Rogue Guild
Kneebash kneebash 4/5 Rogue Guild
Nosetweak nosetweak 4/5 Rogue Guild
Spin Attack sattack 3/5 Warrior Guild
Stun Maneuvers stunman 1/5 Rogue Guild
Sweep sweep 6/6 Rogue Guild
Templeshot templeshot 4/5 Rogue Guild
Throatchop throatchop 4/5 Rogue Guild
Weapon Specialization wspec 4/5

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 6

--------s a 169 rank Guild Master of the Rogue Guild.
Master of Sweep.
Master of Rogue Gambits.

Gender: Male Age: 35 Expr: 2,007,515 Level: 43
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 92 (21) ... 114 (32)
Constitution (CON): 89 (14) ... 93 (16)
Dexterity (DEX): 81 (25) ... 110 (40)
Agility (AGI): 86 (23) ... 102 (31)
Discipline (DIS): 88 (9) ... 88 (9)
Aura (AUR): 83 (26) ... 83 (26)
Logic (LOG): 83 (16) ... 83 (16)
Intuition (INT): 86 (23) ... 86 (23)
Wisdom (WIS): 76 (18) ... 76 (18)
Influence (INF): 46 (-7) ... 46 (-7)
Mana: 51 Silver: 0

You seem to be in one piece.

Maximum Health Points: 156
Remaining Health Points: 156

Maximum Spirit Points: 8
Remaining Spirit Points: 8

Maximum Stamina Points: 94
Remaining Stamina Points: 94

Physical Damage Reduction: 25.14%

He is wearing a brigandine armor. He alternates from brute force in the open to ambush or waylaying. He'll use katana, flails, two handed swords and on rarer occasions a maul and a claidhmore. He is a lot of fun to play around with though I've found on my end there isn't much room to play around with varying the training up.