A critique of GemStone IV posted on reddit

[Drendril]

https://old.reddit.com/r/MUD/comments/qcnf9d/gemstone_iv_bad_game/

[Drendril]

Oh, and I did NOT post this. Not that you'd believe me, but I just don't have that kind of energy for a rant.

[Velfi]

GS certainly has a lot of issues, but the poster/post seems a bit high-strung to have only played for 5 days back. Smells fishy.

[Taernath]

Weird how a guy who 'played for 5 days' after being gone for 30 years is concerned with CER, time-to-cap, and the HMC policy. Pretty sure I've seen the username lurking elsewhere. It might even be our maniaposting friend. He's not really wrong though and seeing the MUD community as a whole echo that yeah, GS kind of sucks is a little heartwarming.


First, combat-botting (defined as running a script which automatically does combat, loots, and moves on; aliases and "in-combat" scripts are fine) is outright bannable. If you see someone combat-botting, you can pass their name to a GM and they will for sure get banned. I know this because I did it and it was very successful.

I laffed

[Astray]

What fresh hell is this?

[Tgo01]

The dude does have some points, even though it does sound like he's trolling.


99% players are nearer the level cap than the beginning. Finding someone that's your level, with your play schedule to play with...impossible!

This is true. I remember playing "back in the day" and it seems like there was almost always at least one other person in every hunting ground you went in to.


It's impossible. We're talking pennies dropping off mobs, and any item worth a damn costs over 50 million silvers.

Although you don't really need 50 million silver gear he's not wrong that critters basically drop pennies compared to the cost of high end gear.


Here is 35$, maybe I get lucky and you will change my "Black Silk Pouch" into a "Braided black Silk Pouch" HOLY SHIT! What have I witnessed!?

I laughed.


They don't care about new players so long as the 500 remaining players they have continue dumping thousands on chances at alterations and other pay2win ploys.

I think he is 100% spot on with this sentence.

[Parkbandit]

I was expecting a post by Donquix, defending Simutronics.

Someone better do a welfare check on him.

[hamsquatch]

What a mess. OP is one of those guys you start talking to at a party and then you pretend to have diarrhea to get out of the conversation.

[Gelston]

Weird how a guy who 'played for 5 days' after being gone for 30 years is concerned with CER, time-to-cap, and the HMC policy. Pretty sure I've seen the username lurking elsewhere. It might even be our maniaposting friend. He's not really wrong though and seeing the MUD community as a whole echo that yeah, GS kind of sucks is a little heartwarming.



I laffed

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4uxqv-XwAU_Ar3.jpg

[Parkbandit]

What a mess. OP is one of those guys you start talking to at a party and then you pretend to have diarrhea to get out of the conversation.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o7TKRAc7iHMcIqAHm/giphy.gif

[Gelston]

What a mess. OP is one of those guys you start talking to at a party and then you pretend to have diarrhea to get out of the conversation.

The best way to deal with that is to say "I'm going to stop you right there.. And go." and then just walk away.

[Avaia]

It never ceases to amaze me how much vitriol can sometimes be created in those who don't want to play the game anymore.

Don't want to play for whatever reason? Ok, that's fine, don't.

[rolfard]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E4uxqv-XwAU_Ar3.jpg


Upgrayedd spells his name U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-D. The two D's are for a "double-dose of pimpin".

[hamsquatch]

The best way to deal with that is to say "I'm going to stop you right there.. And go." and then just walk away.
You're opting out of some potential entertainment, with my way you can just pretend to diarrhea any time you want.

[Amerek]

First rule of MUDs: Avoid the paid ones.

[Amerek]

Gemstone was a pearl. Then its operating model forced decisions like nerfing legacy (like native spells) in order to p2w them. That is a thing that you can manage.

Then, once or twice a year, an event with god auctions. And people, here comes the madness.

A text based item like boots that allow yourself to hunt without losing some buffs. (term in Gemstone to go in a zone and kill critters till you're maxed in exp and then you go rest).

How much you'd say? 100 real bucks? (HELL OF A PRICE HUH?) No. 28 000$. Twenty eight thousands american dollars. Real money.

People handling the game got greedy and that trend just kept on going. Now you can buy exp potions with real money. You can change your profession with real money and so on.

They (Leadership team) are drying their whales until they are gone then will probably leave.

A shame but oh well, game is 30 years old, must be a good reason, huh?

The comments are gold. Can't really argue with them.

[Tgo01]

The comments are gold. Can't really argue with them.

Yup. The best critiques in that discussion is that in the current state of GS most people are capped or near cap and the GMs seem to cater exclusively to this crowd because that's where all of whales are at. As a result actual new player (like for real new players, not people who haven't played in years) experience seems to be ignored because why bother? At best if they stick around for a few months they'll bring in 15 bucks a month (or zero dollars if they remain free to play), meanwhile some people are dropping thousands of dollars a day during paid events.

Let's be honest, the GMs are all about making sure the whales are happy and don't seem too concerned with anything else. All of these class change potions, bard nerf rampage, and a myriad of other changes they have been shoving through lately never would have even been discussed a decade ago when most of their revenue came from subscription fees. But now as long as they aren't pissing off the whales the GMs don't really seem to care who they piss off and again because why bother? They can easily say "Bye, Felicia!" to a lot of people who are only paying them 15 bucks a month as long as they have the people dropping thousands of dollars.

This isn't to say the game isn't fun, I still have fun with GS, but this is a legit concern that people seem to pretend isn't really happening.

[Taernath]

The comments are gold. Can't really argue with them.

I'm still waiting for GS to make it into one of those Top Ten Overpriced Items in Videogames lists. GS would probably hold half the entries.

[Neveragain]

The comments are gold. Can't really argue with them.

I keep the link to the $28,000 text boots on my desktop to show people from other games. It became a meme for a while during raid nights.

[mgoddess]

The comments are gold. Can't really argue with them.

Definitely this.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Whoever Treasonousorange is in the thread is either staff or one of the whales.

[mgoddess]

Troll fed. :shrug:

[Velfi]

I did RP scenes as a fresh player and while they were cringe (lol Cruxophim...)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89PKBpGm4bQ

[Velfi]

It might even be our maniaposting friend. He's not really wrong though and seeing the MUD community as a whole echo that yeah, GS kind of sucks is a little heartwarming.

Agree about the second point, but the poster seems way less manic than a certain private security operator and more like one of Inspire's rants.

[Neveragain]

Whoever Treasonousorange is in the thread is either staff or one of the whales.


I've been eating Big Macs for 30 years

Estild confirmed.

[Neveragain]

Troll fed. :shrug:

https://c.tenor.com/dML-I6rEqVAAAAAM/sorry-i-couldnt-resist-head-shake.gif

[Leafiara]

I'd like to see a better rant where the part about how money from GS goes into everything other than GS is the core of the argument, like it should be, instead of a buried throwaway line.

[Neveragain]

I'd like to see a better rant where the part about how money from GS goes into everything other than GS is the core of the argument, like it should be, instead of a buried throwaway line.

IMO they really dropped the ball with Heroes Journey. I was super hyped when they showed some demos at a SIMUCON years back.

[Mobius1]

I'm very curious about these $28k boots. What the heck do they do exactly?

Anyhow, most of what the guy said is true, honestly, though it's only pointing out the negatives and not so much the positives, of course. They've made a lot of cool changes to the game. Like, a lot of stuff that should have been changed a million years ago but they had a stick up their butts over, they are actually finally changing.

But, it's by far the most P2W game I have ever seen in my life. It seems like since they got bought, all the money funnels upward to the parent company, and GS is just a big whale milking operation (I wish I had a GIF for this.).

[Alashir]

I'm very curious about these $28k boots. What the heck do they do exactly?

Anyhow, most of what the guy said is true, honestly, though it's only pointing out the negatives and not so much the positives, of course. They've made a lot of cool changes to the game. Like, a lot of stuff that should have been changed a million years ago but they had a stick up their butts over, they are actually finally changing.

But, it's by far the most P2W game I have ever seen in my life. It seems like since they got bought, all the money funnels upward to the parent company, and GS is just a big whale milking operation (I wish I had a GIF for this.).

Yea the p2w is off the charts.

[Tgo01]

I'm very curious about these $28k boots. What the heck do they do exactly?

It makes the wearer (and their group I believe) immune from spell strip in the Rift and immune to getting Rifted.

Which is very nice, just not sure 20k+ dollars nice.

[Neveragain]

I'm very curious about these $28k boots. What the heck do they do exactly?

Anyhow, most of what the guy said is true, honestly, though it's only pointing out the negatives and not so much the positives, of course. They've made a lot of cool changes to the game. Like, a lot of stuff that should have been changed a million years ago but they had a stick up their butts over, they are actually finally changing.

But, it's by far the most P2W game I have ever seen in my life. It seems like since they got bought, all the money funnels upward to the parent company, and GS is just a big whale milking operation (I wish I had a GIF for this.).

https://i.redd.it/x960wupzbqd41.gif

[Mobius1]

It makes the wearer (and their group I believe) immune from spell strip in the Rift and immune to getting Rifted.

Which is very nice, just not sure 20k+ dollars nice.

Holy crap! Yeah, get some SK crap or something if you want to throw money at hunting the rift. Or a small statue...

That makes no sense.


https://i.redd.it/x960wupzbqd41.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/BbIBCTZOOsF2w/giphy.gif

[SonoftheNorth]

The boots were clearly designed by the player, just like warclaidh's gem bounty item.

[Mobius1]

The boots were clearly designed by the player, just like warclaidh's gem bounty item.

At that point they've put the custom built electronic milking machine on you.

[SonoftheNorth]

At that point they've put the custom built electronic milking machine on you.


I think they just contact high rollers on discord or w/e and ask what item they'd pay a lot for before events.

[LOL BRIELUS]

10x coraesine blink permablessed claid, halfling only, dark elf sorc bane...

[Mobius1]

I think they just contact high rollers on discord or w/e and ask what item they'd pay a lot for before events.

Shhhh! Listen.......Can you hear the hum of the milking machine?

[Neveragain]

https://media.giphy.com/media/BbIBCTZOOsF2w/giphy.gif

https://c.tenor.com/Uf91U9Tb_UkAAAAC/steve-carell-the-office.gif

[hamsquatch]

https://c.tenor.com/Uf91U9Tb_UkAAAAC/steve-carell-the-office.gif


Shhhh! Listen.......Can you hear the hum of the milking machine?

https://i.imgflip.com/2pqdc3.gif

[Mobius1]

Well, I guess they probably milk whatever part of the whale they can! :D

[Merzbow]

The boots were clearly designed by the player, just like warclaidh's gem bounty item.

What item is that?

[Maerit]

The boots were clearly designed by the player, just like warclaidh's gem bounty item.

But if that was the case, why was there a bidding war with other players? The thing got up to a serious amount of currency because multiple whales were interested. Does that mean all the whales are coming up with the same items, or that they're creating a bidding show for the masses but a pre-determined price point was already secretly in place?

I guess we'll just call it "collusion"...


What item is that?

Here's the item from the TownCrier records (7,000,000 bloodscrip).



"Lahke says, ""Okay, I have a pair of interesting boots. They are NOT unarmed combat.""
Lahke says, ""These boots were once owned by an assassin for hire who demanded payment for services in the form of magical blessings. They eventually passed hands after the assassin met an untimely demise, but these boots will benefit those who hunt in The Rift. These boots will not only prevent you from spellburst on entry, they will protect you from the random spell strips. There is a chance they can protect you from spirit loss, as well. They will prevent coin loss on exit from the area, but an alternative offering will suffice. Ice patches can be destroyed, as well as phylacteries, without any limit on usage."""

[Tgo01]

But if that was the case, why was there a bidding war with other players? The thing got up to a serious amount of currency because multiple whales were interested. Does that mean all the whales are coming up with the same items, or that they're creating a bidding show for the masses but a pre-determined price point was already secretly in place?

I'm sure other people were interested in the item as well. The GMs would be foolish to just accept a random offer when they could let it go to open auction knowing one person really REALLY wants the item and might spend 20k+ dollars on it.

[SonoftheNorth]

But if that was the case, why was there a bidding war with other players? The thing got up to a serious amount of currency because multiple whales were interested.


Uh no it was a reverse auction.

[Merzbow]

But if that was the case, why was there a bidding war with other players? The thing got up to a serious amount of currency because multiple whales were interested. Does that mean all the whales are coming up with the same items, or that they're creating a bidding show for the masses but a pre-determined price point was already secretly in place?

I guess we'll just call it "collusion"...



Here's the item from the TownCrier records (7,000,000 bloodscrip).

I mean what is Warclaidh's gem bounty item, that one I haven't heard of.

[Maerit]

Uh no it was a reverse auction.

Ahh, good recall. I just remember it going for a lot, but yeah that makes sense. Same for the SK 506 that went for 6mil BS. Pretty sure that started at 20mil BS and landed @ 6mil.

[SonoftheNorth]

I mean what is Warclaidh's gem bounty item, that one I haven't heard of.

It duplicates gems

[Roblar]

Yes, it was a reverse auction.

Staff can also see what amounts everyone has redeemed, and you need to have bloodscrip already redeemed in there, no passing. So, easy to aim for maximum drain, those with the most on them get first dibs and at some point will buy and not risk loss of a unique item like that. I think it does more stuff than mentioned, I didn't find a wiki page but pretty sure I used it briefly (or maybe he pasted a clip), I remember there being custom spell active effect names.

But there were other sales near that amount in the same run/list above, and the bloodscrip has already been paid (to other players) before the event ever takes place. This is done about every run regardless of what items are known or not, because they know its a venue to get the rarest and most coveted items/services without requiring luck or much in game time, just money.

Whales be whales because they go in prepared to spend, not because of advance knowledge!

[Tgo01]

The original dude made a good point here too:


As I'm lonely leveling, a player walks in...starts attacking my mob, loots it, and before I can finish asking if he wants to team up...he's gone! That's because he's a scripted bot.

Of the average 500 characters online, I would guess that 25% of those players are playing one character. The other 75% are controlling 2-5 accounts with bots running them all.

Can you blame them though? The game is such a brutal grind, the owner's caused this. Their refusal to budge on their brutal grind system has caused their player base to use bots for everything!

Speaking as someone who plays many "bots" he does make a good point. I mean I play many characters at once because one of the draws of this game for me has always been about advancement via leveling (I never really was big on getting the best gear). Even back in the day when over 99% of the player base used at most simple Wizard/SF scripts to just spell themselves up I still leveled 2 characters at once, but rather than having them play together I would just hunt one to fried, head back to town, then take the other one out to fry, and since I was doing all of this via manually typing everything (I didn't even use macros other than one to automatically cast my COL signs) by the time the second one was fried it was time to take the first one out hunting again. That's just what I find fun about this game: gaining more and more power via leveling. Now with scripts I can level up many characters at once and it's what I get enjoyment out of in this game.

But even people just playing one character at a time use scripts to automate just about everything, and like the guy said who can blame them? The GMs go out of their way to make everything in this game an absolute pain in the ass and if there is an aspect that slows people down from spending money faster at DR they just automate that for them or make things easier. Just look at how they got rid of traps at arenas because it slowed people down. Then they brought out an invoker so people wouldn't have to slow down to get spells. Then to top it all off they made it so you don't even lose spells if you die in an arena.

They are all about making the game as streamlined as possible so who can blame people for "botting" everything.