I'm debating on returning from my hidey hole.

[Mobius1]

I hear there's been tons of rogue changes recently! (I've been gone since 2020.)

I swear it's impossible to stay away from GS forever :D

So I've heard bits and pieces about changes. Silent strike changes, cmans and weapon maneuver changes? Also UAC works with silent strike? Oh, and shadow mastery was changed!

Good to see rogues getting a lot of dev!

~Midgar

[Neovik1]

psm3 was an awesome change for rogues. We also got access to a few additional cman abilities that we can train in. Mug and Eviscerate are pretty awesome.

Example of mug which gives you an opportunity at two chances for loot:
>cman mug
You boldly accost a darkly inked fetish master, your attack masking your larcenous intent!
You attempt to punch a darkly inked fetish master!
Your attack is hindered by holding a massive spiked vruul skin-covered shield edged with lich bones!
You have decent positioning against a darkly inked fetish master.
UAF: 649 vs UDF: 660 = 0.983 * MM: 104 + d100: 81 = 183
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Shallow cut across side of neck distracts the fetish master but draws little blood.
The fetish master is stunned!
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
[SMR result: 203 (Open d100: 33, Bonus: 64)]
Taking advantage of the scuffle, you roughly pat the fetish master down for hidden valuables!
You find a simple haon chest on it!
Your hasty search scatters the fetish master's riches to the ground!
Roundtime: 2 sec.



Eviscerate is more crowd control:
>cman help evis
Name: Eviscerate [eviscerate]
Type: Area of Effect
Roundtime: 4s
Stamina Cost: 14
Targets: Abdomen
Offensive gear: Right hand
Attributes:
Height Check
Hostile
Initiator Stance Penalty
Rehiding Enabled
Shield Defensive Bonus
Target Stance Bonus
Available to: Rogues
Points:
Rank 1: 2
Rank 2: 4
Rank 3: 6
Rank 4: 8
Rank 5: 10
Description: Spring from hiding to surprise and terrify enemies.
Mechanics: Maneuver a target dealing minor slashing damage and minor concussion damage. Applies Major Bleed to the primary target. Applies Terrified or Demoralized with a power of 15 to other targets that witness the attack. Additional targets are limited by Multi Opponent Combat training.


There are also a bunch of other weapon skills that we get access to from just training the weapon skill that are pretty damn sweet. If you have your bow trained up you can do a volley and stow your bow and it will rain down arrows as you use other combat abilities. Shield throw is also pretty damn nice too. If I confront a large group I typically just volley, clash (uac version of aoe), shield throw and then clean up. But mug is where it's at.

[Mobius1]

Can you aim mug?

[dzulthu]

No, but it's still amazing

[Palcron]

It’s worth giving the article on the wiki a read. They added a ton of setup, multi-attack, and aoe skills for weapons, plus the freed up massive tps for hiding rogue by tying shadow mastery and vanish to training thresholds.

https://gswiki.play.net/Player_System_Manager_-_Phase_3

[Palcron]

I’m not sure when Martial Mastery was released, but if you missed it, if you fully 2x your main weapon skill, you get a bonus of (secondary skill + tertiary skill)/8 to your AS (max of 50).

So say you’re capped range and have 202 range ranks: if you 1x edge and 1x brawling, you get an additional 25 AS to your range attacks. And if you 2x edge and 2x brawling, you get an extra 50 AS.

[Orthin]

I’m not sure when Martial Mastery was released, but if you missed it, if you fully 2x your main weapon skill, you get a bonus of (secondary skill + tertiary skill)/8 to your AS (max of 50).

So say you’re capped range and have 202 range ranks: if you 1x edge and 1x brawling, you get an additional 25 AS to your range attacks. And if you 2x edge and 2x brawling, you get an extra 50 AS.

assuming you do not have spells, I think you can have up to 5 with no impact to the AS

[Mobius1]

I'm so glad they finally changed shadow mastery. We'd been asking for that for ages!!!

I haven't had a chance to look at the weapon skills. I wonder if I will want to train a secondary weapon now. But I do have spells.

[Mobius1]

Holy moly there are way more changes than expected.

Divert is especially one that stood out to me!

Do we have any idea of what money making skill they are planning to give rogues?

[Gizmo]

Holy moly there are way more changes than expected.

Divert is especially one that stood out to me!

Do we have any idea of what money making skill they are planning to give rogues?

I wouldn't hold my breath about the money making skill.

One thing people haven't mentioned to you, that I think you weren't around for is the Locksmith pool. That's pretty gnarly for rogues to use, and if you don't use it you're missing out..

[Mobius1]

Ok, one more question. Can someone explain how the light armor mastery CvA bonus works? I can't figure it out based on the wording.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found the more detailed wiki entry.

[Donquix]

Ok, one more question. Can someone explain how the light armor mastery CvA bonus works? I can't figure it out based on the wording.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found the more detailed wiki entry.

i'm not sure if the wiki has been updated but light armor changed a couple times. If you're looking at the one that is based on armor training that is no longer valid. That was released by itself, then replaced during the larger PSM3 change.

https://gswiki.play.net/Player_System_Manager_-_Phase_3#Rogue

Basically just for getting to level 30 on a warrior or rogue if you're on robes or soft leather armor your CvA is 0 (as well as other bonuses)
There is a different set of bonuses for rogues in scale armor.

[Mobius1]

Well, it's not nearly close enough to plate CvA, so it's still not enough to get me out of my MBP. But I'm glad it gave a boost to those who prefer to wear lighter armors.

[SonoftheNorth]

A lot of rogues have been returning and buying profession change potions!

[Tgo01]

A lot of rogues have been returning and buying profession change potions!

I laughed. But sadly it's probably true.

[Mobius1]

That is kind of weird to think about. I still can't believe they added those potions...

Actually I can. If they can squeeze more money out of people they will find a way!! Pay2Winstone4

[Mobius1]

Are there any promo codes for returning right now? I thought they used to give you free premie for a month or some such.

[SonoftheNorth]

Are there any promo codes for returning right now? I thought they used to give you free premie for a month or some such.

Return to Elanthia!

If you've been gone for six months or longer, you can use this promo code to reactivate your account! Use GSBACKAFTER6 and enjoy 30 days of Premium and Standard to get back into the swing of things!

[Mobius1]

Return to Elanthia!

If you've been gone for six months or longer, you can use this promo code to reactivate your account! Use GSBACKAFTER6 and enjoy 30 days of Premium and Standard to get back into the swing of things!

You are a scholar and a saint!

One account isn't so bad, but when you have as many as I do....

[Orthin]

You are a scholar and a saint!

One account isn't so bad, but when you have as many as I do....

if you have a rotating crop of 6-7 accounts, as long as the promo exists you could play in some capacity for free with full perks (versus playing F2P all the time)

[Mobius1]

You could RP as a shapeshifter? Or someone with multiple personality disorder? :P

[Mobius1]

How well does eviscerate work? I don't think I'm able to get into the test server to play around with it, but I don't want to spend the points on it just yet.

[Mobius1]

Here I thought with all the new weapon skills and such, and shadow mastery/vanish being moved, I'd actually have plenty of cman points to go around. WRONG!

At this point I think I have to choose between eviscerate and ensanguinate. I hear very good things about eviscerate, but I think overall ensanguinate will fill a more important shortcoming for me (killing non-crittable stuff like pirate captains.). Granted, eviscerate and ensanguinate are probably a good combo, but I can just use a guild skill to apply the bleed.

[Maerit]

I think people like eviscerate because of the AE effect it has.

[Donquix]

what's your cman spread? if you're mastered in the guild i wouldn't think you'd be tooo strapped.

Evis is generally considered better because, yes, it's your AoE CC as a stealth rogue which is a really great addition. Exsang i didn't love, i didn't play around with it much after the buff to give the passive major bleed duration increase I dunno how much that helps. But major bleed in general was really nice for things with dumb high DS like masters but using exsang always felt lackluster.

[Orthin]

oh and waylay is a nice attack too I think? I don't have much experience with it but I think that is supposed to be decent?

[Alashir]

Here I thought with all the new weapon skills and such, and shadow mastery/vanish being moved, I'd actually have plenty of cman points to go around. WRONG!

At this point I think I have to choose between eviscerate and ensanguinate. I hear very good things about eviscerate, but I think overall ensanguinate will fill a more important shortcoming for me (killing non-crittable stuff like pirate captains.). Granted, eviscerate and ensanguinate are probably a good combo, but I can just use a guild skill to apply the bleed.

Yea, don't forget about waylay

[Mobius1]

Interesting, this is the first I have heard about Waylay.

Honestly, what I am really looking for is the best way to kill pirate captains and champions and such.

[Alashir]

Interesting, this is the first I have heard about Waylay.

Honestly, what I am really looking for is the best way to kill pirate captains and champions and such.

Waylay is excellent but so is garrote.

[Mobius1]

Hmm, Garrote. Everybody loves a little garrote....

[Neovik1]

Here I thought with all the new weapon skills and such, and shadow mastery/vanish being moved, I'd actually have plenty of cman points to go around. WRONG!

At this point I think I have to choose between eviscerate and ensanguinate. I hear very good things about eviscerate, but I think overall ensanguinate will fill a more important shortcoming for me (killing non-crittable stuff like pirate captains.). Granted, eviscerate and ensanguinate are probably a good combo, but I can just use a guild skill to apply the bleed.

I’ve found that you only really need 3 levels of training in the skills and they are just as effective. But that’s just from my findings.

[Mobius1]

I’ve found that you only really need 3 levels of training in the skills and they are just as effective. But that’s just from my findings.

Yeah, it may come to that, for me.

Didn't they also make changes to the cman system while I was gone? I can almost swear I see people with much higher cman defense than I did in the past, for example.

[Alashir]

I’ve found that you only really need 3 levels of training in the skills and they are just as effective. But that’s just from my findings.

I agree. 3 ranks seems pretty good for most skills.

[Asha]

On exsanguinate

Maneuver a target causing all remaining ticks of Major Bleed to trigger. There is a (Rank * 10)% chance of automatically reapplying the bleed at (Success Margin / 5)% effectiveness. Finally, you passively gain one additional round of Major Bleed at ranks 3 and 5 (up to 2 additional rounds).

I really don’t get the passive part. What does that mean?
Every time I hit a critter they have added bleed effects without actually using the cman since it’s passive?

[Mobius1]

I haven't had a chance to play with it yet, but I assume major bleed is a DoT, and ensanguinate applies the entire DoT damage in one tick, thus removing the bleed. Then it has a chance to apply the DoT again, assuming the target survives. Then they will continue to lose blood every round from the bleed.

[Asha]

As an ambushing rogue I find ambush is my crit weighted choice and waylay is my damage weighting shot.
If it can’t be critted then waylay will drain its health in one shot or 2 of you’re THW or TWC.
Ambush from hiding = criticism weighting. Waylay from hiding = damage weighting.

Sorry if all this is captain obvious

[Asha]

Lol criticism weighting. That’s it I’m going to bed.

[Neovik1]

Keep in mind waylay only works with the main hand and not with the offhand

[Mobius1]

My problem with Waylay is I am UAC. Though maybe I could pull out a brawling weapon and try it...

[Maerit]

My problem with Waylay is I am UAC. Though maybe I could pull out a brawling weapon and try it...

Yes, equip a blackjack or something. The KO flaring blackjack from that quest is a great waylay option!

[rolfard]

You can waylay with a fist. I've seen 400 damage that way