tortoise stance, shield riposte, or mongoose?

[Leigo]

Going to 1hander/shield from 2hander and debating what martial stance to go with. Tortoise his ya with -20 AS but having 2 block chances on everything sounds very strong, especially with a flared/scripted/spiked shield.

Anyone have experience with all three in a shield build?

[LOL BRIELUS]

Having -20 as doesn't seem all that bad. Shoot, as a halfling I have -30 AS to a giant and don't see much of a problem

[Archigeek]

As a hurler, the other stances don't do much for me. Prior to the recent updates I always ran griffin, but that's almost pointless now with the elimination of vocal stress. Tortoise stance really shines when you combine it with the skill that let's you block for other people. That's usually the only time I run it, when I'm guarding someone else. It's very effective in that regard.

[mattipeppers]

Hey man, just saw your post. I've been back and forth quite a bit between these and thought I'd share my two cents. I switched from 2he to a blunt/shield.

I've been using the test server a lot to experiment. Ultimately, I went with riposte. Having this 3/3 along with shield bash at 5/5, I am stunning and knocking things down left and right with no roundtime incurred. Anything that falls down I immediately ambush their heads for an easy kill. Shield forward also procs every time riposte goes off. It's like having 30 additional shield ranks up anytime you are fighting. Something to consider though is that I usually don't hunt with spells, so I get hit a lot; most of the time I'm only taking 1pt damage due to redux, armor, and sigil of minor protection though. It's a pretty fun way to hunt.

[James469]

Hey man, just saw your post. I've been back and forth quite a bit between these and thought I'd share my two cents. I switched from 2he to a blunt/shield.

I've been using the test server a lot to experiment. Ultimately, I went with riposte. Having this 3/3 along with shield bash at 5/5, I am stunning and knocking things down left and right with no roundtime incurred. Anything that falls down I immediately ambush their heads for an easy kill. Shield forward also procs every time riposte goes off. It's like having 30 additional shield ranks up anytime you are fighting. Something to consider though is that I usually don't hunt with spells, so I get hit a lot; most of the time I'm only taking 1pt damage due to redux, armor, and sigil of minor protection though. It's a pretty fun way to hunt.

I'm thinking of switching from THW to OH/shield as well; any reason why I would want to go with blunt over OHE? I was going to get Kroderine Soul and wanted to increase my defense capabilities.

[mattipeppers]

Kroderine Soul is a ton of fun. I personally love it and I think that it complements shield builds really well. The Absorb Magic ability that you get with it adds a huge buff to strength bonus, stamina and health when you absorb a spell. I constantly seek out critters that cast for this reason.

I've grown very partial to war hammers, but there are pros and cons to both ohe/ohb depending on what or how you hunt. War hammers provide a nice bonus to aiming success and have a lower RT which makes multistriking a bit quicker. A lot of it comes down to what you can get your hands on and personal preference.

[James469]

At what point should I be expecting to see a big increase in defense with this build over THW? Currently only 28, and in testing it seems like I'm better off just swinging the claid a few times vs going sword and board.

[Renaden]

DS will be roughly the same as training in dodge, the benefits are through blocking with the shield, especially once you get to 40, get that extra 10% parry/block chance and set your EBP to BPE through the guild. Learn tackle, cripple right leg, tackle, attack will almost always yield a kill, can throw a feint in there too if you need it.

[James469]

DS will be roughly the same as training in dodge, the benefits are through blocking with the shield, especially once you get to 40, get that extra 10% parry/block chance and set your EBP to BPE through the guild. Learn tackle, cripple right leg, tackle, attack will almost always yield a kill, can throw a feint in there too if you need it.

Thanks, Ill play with testing and look into this deeper as the annual fixskill comes closer. The claid+berserk model seems to be working OK right now

[James469]

Was about to fixskills to polearm, but decided to look through my locker manifest one last time: came across a fish-spine sword; didn't those have some type of crit weighting to them? If so, maybe OHE would be a better bet.

[Flap]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?128351-a-fish-spine-sword-15-CER-CRIT-5x&highlight=fishspine

I think yours is the one with damage weighting. Still a top notch piece of nostalgia though!

[James469]

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?128351-a-fish-spine-sword-15-CER-CRIT-5x&highlight=fishspine

I think yours is the one with damage weighting. Still a top notch piece of nostalgia though!

>touch cry
You touch the crystal with one hand, your fish spine sword in the other hand. A low resonant note sounds, echoing through the room.

Nope looks like it is crit

[Flap]

>touch cry
You touch the crystal with one hand, your fish spine sword in the other hand. A low resonant note sounds, echoing through the room.

Nope looks like it is crit

Huh! I could have sworn it was one with crit and one with damage. I'm still pretty sure the fishspine sword is the original with exceptional weighting. But I hope for your sake I'm wrong!

[James469]

I've been running riposte, but thinking of moving to tortoise stance for the extra block chance. If I go that route, is there major downside in dropping 1x dodge and getting PF to 2.5x-3x?

[JNewhall]

I love both riposte and tortoise. Some stuff is bash immune and tortoise is better there. Other stuff hits like a wet noodle and you want riposte there.

For years I did 3x shields, 0x dodge, with no spells, so dropping dodge you should be fine if you're using a tower. That's true whether you use tortoise or riposte. Riposte is only useful if you get hit, so dodge training actually makes it slightly less useful.

[James469]

I love both riposte and tortoise. Some stuff is bash immune and tortoise is better there. Other stuff hits like a wet noodle and you want riposte there.

For years I did 3x shields, 0x dodge, with no spells, so dropping dodge you should be fine if you're using a tower. That's true whether you use tortoise or riposte. Riposte is only useful if you get hit, so dodge training actually makes it slightly less useful.

I went with a large shield (because I couldn't find a cheap veil iron greatshield). Though, not sure if I need a veil iron shield since I've been using the KS absorb magic feat when faced with spell casters. Should i be pushing for a tower instead?

Also, how detrimental would wearing armor I'm not fully trained for be? Like half-plate with ~96 ranks?

[JNewhall]

I would be in a tower shield if you're dropping dodge. Tower's benefits are offset by a dodge penalty, but the lower you go on dodge, the less that matters. That makes it all upside. Large and medium shields are great if you are maxing dodge because you'll get more overall defense. (Rogues have different shield builds but for paladins and warriors that hold up well.)

I don't think veil iron is a big benefit on a shield. You can T1 ensorcel a tower to get shield block and shield mind if that's what you need.

Undertraining armor - the big issues is always RT. That armor better do something amazing if the RT adder isn't trained off. At 96 ranks, I assume your dex+agi bonus will get rid of the RT adder.

The other issue is action penalty (i.e. maneuver penalty), which will depend on what you hunt and how you are doing against those maneuvers. In general, it is far less important than RT. RT not only leaves you open to attack, it makes you take longer to kill things, which amplifies being open to attacks longer. Just one second of RT adds minutes to your hunt. Maneuvers, on the other hand, will get you sometimes no matter your training. So if you've got the RT removed, I say go for that half plate.

[James469]

Thanks very helpful. I’ll dig up a tower and get T1 on it. For the armor, all I’ve noticed was an extra second RT to focused Mstrike; seems like an ok trade off for going from chain hauberk to SWCP half plate. Looks like I’m in the market for a CMAN potion.

[Archigeek]

Thanks very helpful. I’ll dig up a tower and get T1 on it. For the armor, all I’ve noticed was an extra second RT to focused Mstrike; seems like an ok trade off for going from chain hauberk to SWCP half plate. Looks like I’m in the market for a CMAN potion.

If you like the veil iron you should be able to find a veil iron tower easily enough. It'd be a lot cheaper than the T1, but after that what you can do with it is more limited due to some short sighted SIMU ideas on metals that are effectively naturally T0 vs a T1 by a player.

[James469]

If you like the veil iron you should be able to find a veil iron tower easily enough. It'd be a lot cheaper than the T1, but after that what you can do with it is more limited due to some short sighted SIMU ideas on metals that are effectively naturally T0 vs a T1 by a player.

I didn't look too hard, just on the Playershops page.

How does this training plan look at lvl 32? Hunting will be tortoise stance w/ tower shield and berserk:

Armor Use: 91 (2.8x) - will go full 3x moving forward
Shield Use: 99 (3x)
OHE: 66 (2x)
Cman: 66 (2x)
MOC: 55 (1.7x) - stopping here until at least in full plate
PF: 66 (2x)
Climbing: 10
Swimming: 10
Perception: 33
Harness Power: 8 (for sigils)

Also, I can't find any info on expected mobs for DR solo runs; this will be my first time, and I'm hoping I can just berserk through it with the above training.

[LOL BRIELUS]

How do you hit things hard enough? Isn't tortoise like -30 As?

[James469]

How do you hit things hard enough? Isn't tortoise like -30 As?

-20 at 3 ranks; that will put my AS somewhere between 280 and 305 in berserk (depending on few factors). My OHE has 15CER crit weighting as well, which will help. I’ll give that AS up for the extra block chance, especially since my reactive shield bashes haven’t been hitting what I’m hunting right now.

[James469]

Made the change. Any recommendations on what to spend the excess CMAN and Shield points on? I probably should get an offensive shield maneuver, just not sure which one (bash, strike, trample, etc). This training plan should still have me on track to get into half plate and full plate when I'm at level.


(at level 32), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 190 90
Shield Use.........................| 199 99
Combat Maneuvers...................| 166 66
Edged Weapons......................| 168 68
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 155 55
Physical Fitness...................| 168 68
Harness Power......................| 35 7
Perception.........................| 126 33
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10


your Shield Specializations are as follows:

Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prop Up prop 2/3
Protective Wall pwall 2/2
Spell Block spellblock 1/1
Tortoise Stance tortoise 3/3
Tower Shield Focus tfocus 3/5

Available Shield Specializations Points: 25


your Combat Maneuvers are as follows:

Skill Mnemonic Ranks Category Subcategory
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Berserk berserk 6/6 Warrior Guild
Block Specialization blockspec 3/3
Combat Mobility mobility 1/1
Combat Toughness toughness 1/3
Disarm Weapon disarm 1/5 Warrior Guild
Feint feint 4/5 Warrior Guild
Spin Attack sattack 4/5 Warrior Guild
Stance Perfection stance 2/2 Warrior Guild
Surge of Strength surge 1/5
Tackle tackle 1/5 Warrior Guild
Weapon Specialization wspec 3/5

Available Combat Maneuvers Points: 12