Spell Training

[Lookkin]

Just rolled my very first Wizard. Actually just started playing GS about 2 weeks ago and although have read thru most of the current posts, I'm still very confused about Spell Training. I'm anticipating being a pure, but after utilizing Tsoran's spreadsheet trainer - my CS in Major Elemental's do not go up in direct relationship with MjE Training. It goes up with MnE training - is this correct? And vice versa - CS in MnE goes up as you train in MjE. Someone had posted earlier about training scrictly to enhance their CS - which I dont necessarily agree, but how do you get the max CS for a wizard?

Additionally - where is the Wizards workshop located in Wehnimer's Landing?

Thanks in advance.

Lookkin :smilegrin:

[TheRoseLady]

Workshop is in the guild.

Well your CS overall goes up with each training, but training in a circle will up that particular circles CS. But...CS is not as important as your bolt AS which is determined in part by your spell aim. Not sure what is up with Tsoran's spreadsheet, but training in a circle enhances that CS and will so until you overtrain that circle by like 20 spells, then on the 21st the benefit drops but I forget how much. That's not something you would really worry about much.

Hope that is clear. I know it's a bit confusing.

[StrayRogue]

Primary spell circle bonus: (round normally)
Ranks up to level: 1CS/rank
Ranks 1-20 above level: .75CS/rank
Ranks 21-60 above level: .5CS/rank
Ranks 61-100 above level: .25CS/rank
Ranks 101 -? above level: .125CS/rank

Secondary circle is:

Ranks up to 2/3 level: .33333333CS/rank
Ranks over 2/3 level: .111111111CS/rank

[Lookkin]

Thanks Rose - that makes absolute sense. The worksheet just seemed odd is all.

But regarding the Wizard's shop - its in the guild - which begs the question, where is the Wizard's guild located ?

:?:

[Askip]

Go out the West gate and go s/sw until you can go due East.

It's marked on Tsoran's map:

http://tsoran.com/maplib/landing/WL-gates.gif

:D

P.S. Always double-train in Spell Aim each level, as previously stated the AS spells (901,903,etc.) are the main attack spells.

CS spells like 501 and 409 are used much less.

Askip

[AnticorRifling]

Even I double train in spell aim every lvl. It's one of those things that as a wizard you kind of have to train in. Well you don't have to and though I don't bolt I could skip it but I see that kind of training as painting yourself into a preverbial corner.

[Lookkin]

I guess I was trying to anticpate using Mana Leech and the goal was to get a high enough CS MjE - to not fail and loose a chunk of mana.

I agree Anticor - Spell Aim 2x is most definite - there is no way around it for the wizard.

MMmm..Maps are good! Thanks for the link Askip. So far, I tried experimenting with the runestaff versus Shield/Ohe and after reading and comparing the two on paper - Shield/Ohe is the best way to go in the long run. So the plan is to train 1x Shield/Ohe (was considering going with a dagger for the weight), 1x Physical Fitness, .5x (climbing swimming perception), 1x (Arcane / Magic Item Use) and 2x (Harness Power / Spell Aim).

Spell Training thru 20 trains 13 MjE, 20 MnE, 13 Wizard

And I just break even with Points.

Btw - my character is a Dark Elf, although Halflings appear to be the best bolters, Dark Elves appear to be the all around best race for a Wizard. My own personal opinion of course. I'm know I'm jumping around here, but I read several posts of a wizard using Polearms with adjacent trainings in CM . What's the advantage of Polearms to a Wizard?

[Lookkin]

My bad - I just saw the thread on the Polearms. Something to consider - thanks Anticor for that insight.

[Lookkin]

Clearly, not understaning the impact of 513 and 425 on Bolt and Elemental CS underlines my naivety. But after reading about those two spells, the bonuses they bring to the caster just tells me one thing - I'm going to tear some sheeeet up!!

One thing I didn't understand about 425 was the overtraining comment - "Overtraining in Minor Elemental spell ranks does not yield additional bonus past the caster's level". What exactly does that mean?

Thanks

:noob:

[Valthissa]

training from 425 to 474 earns you 1 AS for every two spells learned for a total of +50 AS (25AS + 1AS for every two spells) at 474 providing you have at least 74 trainings.

You get no credit for spell training beyond your level.

So, if you were trained to 427 at level 25 you would get +25 AS, not +26.

I hope that explanation does not confuse you even more.

C/Valth

[spunkmonk]

Originally posted by Lookkin
... how do you get the max CS for a wizard? ...
Thanks in advance.

Lookkin :smilegrin:
it's easy, you just 3x your spells

1x MnE
1x MjE
1x Wizard

if you want max WIZARD CS for the wizard circle alone (dunno maybe you wanted a wicked WeaponFire CS)

you can try:
.5x MnE
.5x Mje
2x Wizard

[Lookkin]

C/Valth – That was my how I looked at it, so thanks for clearing that up. Simple formula would be Current Lvl less Standard Bonus for respective Spell multiplied by 2. So for 513 – the standard bonus is 20. If you current Lvl is 25, 25 less 20 (Std Bonus) = 5 *2 = 10. To maximize 513 at lvl 25, you would have 10 ranks of MjE over 513 or 35 ranks. For 425 – you would just replace the standard bonus with 25, the remaining formula would still apply. (Lvl – Bonus) * 2

I think this has been reiterated in previous posts, but it becomes early in the life of a wizard to choose the path that you wish to take. Clearly you cannot have enough TPs to facilitate both maximizing 513 and 425, not what I can see in the pre 40 lvls. Because of the Std Bonus factor, in post 40 trains you will actually need to double and triple in MjE to maximize 513. Due to the return on TP investment, an evenly trained wizard in all circles is the best path – which is what Spunk had mentioned.


:popcorn2:

Lookkin

[Askip]

<< the plan is to train 1x Shield/Ohe (was considering going with a dagger for the weight), 1x Physical Fitness, .5x (climbing swimming perception), 1x (Arcane / Magic Item Use) and 2x (Harness Power / Spell Aim). >>


You can skip Perception for many levels, the only use I've found for it is using Piercing Gaze (416) to check boxes for traps.

You will not need more than 1 rank of swimming and 5 ranks climbing for quite a while.

2X Harness Power seems like overkill to me because you only get 1 mana per level after 1X, but many folks train that way.

I would put the extra TPs into spells.

:D

[AnticorRifling]

Or CM.

[Valthissa]

Originally posted by Lookkin

I think this has been reiterated in previous posts, but it becomes early in the life of a wizard to choose the path that you wish to take. Clearly you cannot have enough TPs to facilitate both maximizing 513 and 425, not what I can see in the pre 40 lvls. Because of the Std Bonus factor, in post 40 trains you will actually need to double and triple in MjE to maximize 513. Due to the return on TP investment, an evenly trained wizard in all circles is the best path – which is what Spunk had mentioned.


:popcorn2:

Lookkin

I think you will find that AS is not the limiting factor for being a successful wizard when it comes to hunting.

As a giant, my bolt AS is not very good but I do alright.

I suggest you get 425 at level 25 and 430 at level 30. There are good reasons to train in all three circles. At 77 I'm currently trained to 64 wizard, 74 MnE, and 77 MjE. So, like many others, I believe that balanced training in spell circles yields the best overall benefits.

It's REALLY hard to screw up a wizard, but I'm sure it can be done. I'm absolutely certain that you could double in spells, pick up a ton of tertiary skills, and still be perfectly viable.

If you like GS already, I'm sure you'll have fun playing a wizard.

C/Valth

[Lookkin]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Or CM.

Lol – of course I wouldn’t disparage against CM. But where exactly does CM’s ranks give bonuses?

And Askip - I think that was a great idea in reviewing double training in Harness Power. The one extra mana per double train wasn't worth the points, which could be applied to other skills. At this time, I'm staying away from Lore skills until I can understand more of the benefits.

I can't make it so that I'm tripling in spells, but it’s really close. Particularly after satisfying some of the basic requirements, Phy Fit, Armor, etc., I can apply 8 ranks of spell training to every 3 trains (ie 2.7 skills/train).

:grin:

[AnticorRifling]

CM adds to your physical AS (swinging not bolt) 1 AS for every 2 ranks. It also gives you access to a very limited and expensive (as it should be) CMAN list.

I don't advice training in CM as a pure wizard. It's not going to make you bolt better and the other benefits won't outweigh the costs.

[El Burro]

I've always had some confusion with 2x Harness Power. I know it only gives 1 mana point extra but does it affect the amount of mana per pulse? Or is that affected by Mana Control?

[Askip]

<< I'm staying away from Lore skills until I can understand more of the benefits. >>

Smart move, you have plenty of time to get Lore and the benefits are almost nil at lower levels.

Many mages, myself included, have zero Lore at high level. If my RP were specifically geared toward one element I would probably get some ranks.

:D

[Askip]

Originally posted by El Burro
I've always had some confusion with 2x Harness Power. I know it only gives 1 mana point extra but does it affect the amount of mana per pulse? Or is that affected by Mana Control?

Mana per pulse is a percentage of your maximum mana.

What is it now? 15% off node and 25% on node?

[Askip]

An afterthought: First Aid and Survival for skinning critters are worth the TPs. I've made most of my coin that way, a steady supply of 300-500 silver pelts is not hard to find once you reach level 20 or thereabouts. It gets even better if you know where to look.

:D

[Valthissa]

Originally posted by El Burro
I've always had some confusion with 2x Harness Power. I know it only gives 1 mana point extra but does it affect the amount of mana per pulse? Or is that affected by Mana Control?

from the official docs...

Mana Point Regeneration

Mana recovery is currently 15% of max mana when off node and 25% of max mana when on a node. Mana Control training will increase that total by a fixed value (not percent), regardless of whether or not the character is on a node.

For professions with a single sphere of power: Bonus Mana Recovered = +1 per 10 ranks, rounded down.

For professions with two spheres of power: Bonus Mana Recovered = Evaluate higher of their two respective MC ranks as above. Evaluate lower MC ranks as above, divide by two (round down), and add to first result.

Example:
If a sorcerer has 170 skill (70 ranks) in Elemental MC and 120 skill (30 ranks) in Spirit MC, he will have a bonus of 7 mana recovery (70/10) for the Elemental training and a bonus of 1 mana recovery for the Spirit training (((30/10)/2) = 1.5, rounds down to 1) for a total bonus of 8 mana recovered per pulse.

end documentation

which is why getting EMC can be very useful. I have 60 ranks.

C/Valth