Character Transfers and Account Takeovers as per WYROM

[SonoftheNorth]

When you make plans to takeover another character or account, understand, their history follows you. If they have warnings, vulgarity monitoring, or have been marked as high maintenance customer, this will impact your accounts. Please make sure you're discussing this with all parties before settling on anything. These decisions when placed on accounts are typically permanent.


Wyrom, PM



http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/3880

[Tgo01]

I wonder what happened to prompt that announcement.

[SonoftheNorth]

I wonder what happened to prompt that announcement.


Someone probably bought a HMC character for cheap and assisted to have it removed and they either said no, or did it and said we gotta change that now.

[Rjex]

I think Wyrom is generally a very chill guy but speaking in general this is a mind-numbingly dumb policy. It's like if you buy a used car and the previous owner had a DUI, you now also have a DUI on your record.

[BLZrizz]

Seems inconsistent too, I remember some dude here buying some warning-laden character, petitioning the staff to have them cleared, and then flipping it for a profit. It should be tied to accounts (and linked accounts) not characters.

[Tgo01]

Seems inconsistent too, I remember some dude here buying some warning-laden character, petitioning the staff to have them cleared, and then flipping it for a profit.

This is why we can't have nice things.

[Tgo01]

I think Wyrom is generally a very chill guy but speaking in general this is a mind-numbingly dumb policy. It's like if you buy a used car and the previous owner had a DUI, you now also have a DUI on your record.

Only thing I can think of is they are worried someone will give the character to their "cousin" in order to wipe the records clean. But you would think they have ways to track this, like billing address, credit card numbers, etc etc.

[SonoftheNorth]

GameMasters and offsite staff have no records of who you are. We have characters and accounts, that's it. We aren't going to be able to dig into who all was who or if someone is trying to escape from any sort of policy violations. This has been the case since this game has even allowed character transfers. It's nothing new, I'm just repeating the policy.

Why do I not believe this

[Tgo01]

GameMasters and offsite staff have no records of who you are. We have characters and accounts, that's it. We aren't going to be able to dig into who all was who or if someone is trying to escape from any sort of policy violations. This has been the case since this game has even allowed character transfers. It's nothing new, I'm just repeating the policy.

Oh that's you quoting Wyrom, I thought you were saying all of that at first and was really confused.

Yeah I find it hard to believe there is no way to track billing information to accounts/characters.

[Taernath]

GameMasters and offsite staff have no records of who you are. We have characters and accounts, that's it. We aren't going to be able to dig into who all was who or if someone is trying to escape from any sort of policy violations. This has been the case since this game has even allowed character transfers. It's nothing new, I'm just repeating the policy.

Why do I not believe this

Eh, I believe it. They probably have to put in a request with billing to confirm personal info, like CC, your Real Name, etc.

[Tgo01]

Eh, I believe it. They probably have to put in a request with billing to confirm personal info, like CC, your Real Name, etc.

Then billing should be able to track it and before GMs remove any warnings they can check with billing to see if any of the information is still the same. But even this isn't necessarily a perfect solution because someone could potentially use a friend or relative's credit card to avoid this.

[SonoftheNorth]

Eh, I believe it. They probably have to put in a request with billing to confirm personal info, like CC, your Real Name, etc.


Nah cuz then the whales they are scared to script check would get busted on their MA accounts

[Fortybox]

Only thing I can think of is they are worried someone will give the character to their "cousin" in order to wipe the records clean. But you would think they have ways to track this, like billing address, credit card numbers, etc etc.

Or like maybe say....lootcap linking.

[Rjex]

Yeah they don't know who is who but somehow know how to link all your billed accounts for loot cap when needed.

[Tgo01]

Wait a minute, that's a darn good point.

How can they say "If you buy a character all of the warnings from that character will impact your other accounts" then also say "We can't do that because we have no way to track your accounts."

The GMs are apparently tracking us somehow, whether that's via IP address, just deciding to link accounts together because they are always hunting together or something, or they are indeed going by billing information.

[Whirlin]

Eh, I believe it. They probably have to put in a request with billing to confirm personal info, like CC, your Real Name, etc.
While the Payment Card Industry's Data Security Standards does not explicitly require network segmentation between financial networks and delivery networks, implementing network segmentation reduces the overall scope of PCI compliance related activities and coverage requirements. This can lead to lower cost of maintenance with increased security.

I don't even want to say it's a best practice, because it's fundamental network design 101. Isolate out the financial transaction environment from delivery. If you need to bridge them, do so via a DMZ or incredibly specific firewall rules to ensure that only minimum necessary content is exposed.

[Fortybox]

Wait a minute, that's a darn good point.

How can they say "If you buy a character all of the warnings from that character will impact your other accounts" then also say "We can't do that because we have no way to track your accounts."

The GMs are apparently tracking us somehow, whether that's via IP address, just deciding to link accounts together because they are always hunting together or something, or they are indeed going by billing information.

The business logic is there to detect whether or not the HMC person is playing the account anymore. Wyrom is just being evasive.

[Realk]

I've felt for a good while, that they choose to use this type of policy both ways, saying it sticks to the character or sticks to the account... At least with that statement, it seems like they are making it stay with only the character. Or actually I can't tell. Seems still if they wanna give you shit damn well knowing you didnt own the character when it acted up or scripted.. Then they gonna do it.

[hamsquatch]

Why not just offer a voluntary verification/non-HMC for the people that want it? It’s not like there is such a huge list of customers to go through.

Also, why does 1 scripting violation follow you forever, asking for a friend…

[Fortybox]

Why not just offer a voluntary verification/non-HMC for the people that want it? It’s not like there is such a huge list of customers to go through.

Also, why does 1 scripting violation follow you forever, asking for a friend…

Because some people just want to watch the world burn and have script violations last forever.

[Stanley Burrell]

I've always thought it auto-applied itself to your account with an IP or something we can't see on our end.

[Realk]

Why not just offer a voluntary verification/non-HMC for the people that want it? It’s not like there is such a huge list of customers to go through.

Also, why does 1 scripting violation follow you forever, asking for a friend…

I dont understand the first part, isnt that essentially what the tool policy review is mostly used for?

[Rjex]

It's a perpetual cycle. You relax for a while and then more dumb shit gets posted by simu and you get this urge to downsize again.

[lexbubba]

There is definitely some kind of linking different accounts to individual people. Years ago, I got a scripting violation on 1 character for AFK script forging. The GM contacted me through a SEND on another char on another account that was doing something totally unrelated (I was at the comp just not paying attention to the script forging toon). I got a 30-day lockout on 4 all accounts I had at that time.

Just saying they have some way to track who the person is (whether that is IP-based, getting it from billing, or something else). I wonder if they more just don't want folks to buy/sell toons and that's why this permanent record thing is in place.

[Tgo01]

I wonder if they more just don't want folks to buy/sell toons and that's why this permanent record thing is in place.

At this point it seems they don't really care about people selling characters or selling things for real money. I think it's more like they don't want people to abuse the system.

Person A could "sell" the person to their "cousin" (wink wink nudge nudge) to have the violations removed.

People could also get really creative:

Person A "sells" the character to Person B.
Person B asks for all warnings to be removed.
Person B then "sells" the character back to Person A, giving Person A a perfect record.

I'm sure there are ways they could track all of this and punish the people abusing the system, but it seems they would rather just say "Fuck it!" and make the warnings permanent and affect other accounts linked to that character.

[chrenraf]

If I were in a decision making capacity there I would consider removing violations for payment. Different violations or accumulations of violations over time cost more money. The problem you could have would be people not caring since they could just wipe it clean, so you would have to put a bit of thought into it. The company could save a hidden copy of all infractions over the lifetime for future reference (seeing if trends continue) while having the main record clean. You want your $600 character clean of a single violation? $100.

You then reward people for generally not being a shithead and wanting to wipe it clear while ensuring the most shitty of characters aren't worth saving face unless it has meaning to you (ie, flipping wouldn't make sense).

It also would give people a chance to wipe infractions from decades ago. I personally believe infractions 5+ years old on an active character should be removed and perhaps 10 years for inactive. People leave the lands as younger folks and come back 5,10,15 years later and are different people. I see no reason to hold something that old against someone.

[audioserf]

Simu get $20 every time a character is transferred, they LOVE the character market. They get $20 for Chris doing something that should be a web form.

[audioserf]

OK so this came up because of me... let me explain:

1.)Just returned and I got HMC slapped on my character because of DISCORD and I just transferred said character. (yeah don't use discord to "link" your accounts to your character this is how they retaliate)

2.) My alternate accounts got the "virus" as well.

3.) They (or at least Wyrom) can look at CC and billing info including your name, address you put on, last 4 digits of CC and type of CC.

4.) They can look at IP (I was actually in the consultation lounge, the GM helping me f'ed up and blurted "find out which other accounts he has from that IP." on say rather than GM chat or whatever she was supposed to use. I shit you not, the whole "we can't see IP is a fucking lie.")

5.) They can slap on HMC with no warnings or mentions of "you should stop or else.." Just...
https://media.tenor.com/images/762be9f37106baa87a4d3bf08ef753fa/tenor.gif

***6.) Wyrom is OK but the GMs under him are absolute pieces of shit especially Estild. Estild btw enforces most of the policy btw at least from my interactions and what I can glean from all this.

Overall, I can't believe I devoted so much time and money into a game that's not even fucking run legitimately. They pull their entire fucking staff from the playerbase like recruiting the jail's police guards directly from the prisoners.

Further it's not even these people's jobs (although they do get paid some scraps apparently) so it's ripe for bias and pet projects, pet people , and of course cheats (which apparently are legal) that GMs can use (because they've lost time working on the game) which is OK until you realize that all those cheat gains can be sold for RL $$.

The problem with the game is that none of the fucking employees are actually employees and every one of these motherfuckers have an enormous invested interest in the game as a player which is compounded by the fact that it takes a bajillion years and thousands of dollars to play at a high level.

It's just all so deliciously fucked up.

Advilus seems not at all mad about having been banned from the discord for nonstop white noise shit posting. Stay frosty out there

[audioserf]

Um ok. Enjoy your mental illness, Audioserf.

You somehow avoided a discord permaban when you made a meme using Estild's IRL photo a few months ago, which is hugely fuckin deranged behavior, and then you just couldn't stop stepping on your own dick so frequently that you still ended up banned. In a field of absolute fucking nincompoops and imbeciles that make up the majority of the GSIV playerbase you stand head and shoulders above the rest and that is achievement unlocked

[Fierna]

My only question. Are warnings and crap backward compatible? If I sold and transfered a character to a different account and that character got warned or hmc'd whatever would the transferer get slapped with all that as well?

I mean it makes logical sense. If they are saying the character with warnings get transfered and you get hit with all the new warnings across all your accounts they are assuming all accounts involved is the same person.

Also as per their official stance that they do not condone character sales it wouldn't make sense they would ,at least explicitly, take money from you and help facilitate the violation of their own policy.

[Neveragain]

Advilus seems not at all mad about having been banned from the discord for nonstop white noise shit posting. Stay frosty out there

Everything he said is true though.

[Gelston]

GameMasters and offsite staff have no records of who you are. We have characters and accounts, that's it. We aren't going to be able to dig into who all was who or if someone is trying to escape from any sort of policy violations. This has been the case since this game has even allowed character transfers. It's nothing new, I'm just repeating the policy.

Why do I not believe this

You can see where the character transferred from, at least, I swear I can remember seeing it saying where the character transferred in from. Only billing can piece together full on accounts though, GMs have no access to CC, addresses, etc.

Although if you have accounts like TGO01, TGO02, TGO03, etc it is pretty easy.

[Gelston]

Also, warnings never leave, but if you hadn't had one in 10 years, that is heavily considered if you do something again that requires GM attention.

[Glaves]

Strange how when i caught my ban they banned my brother's accounts as well, accounts that i have never once logged into...Different credit cards, different names. Hell my original account was still in my moms name from when she opened it for me when i was a kid. They know exactly who you are.

[Gelston]

Strange how when i caught my ban they banned my brother's accounts as well, accounts that i have never once logged into...Different credit cards, different names. Hell my original account was still in my moms name from when she opened it for me when i was a kid. They know exactly who you are.

They can and have talked to billing before to link accounts. An regular GM won't have access to any of that.

[Glaves]

They can and have talked to billing before to link accounts. An regular GM won't have access to any of that.

"GameMasters and offsite staff have no records of who you are. We have characters and accounts, that's it. We aren't going to be able to dig into who all was who or if someone is trying to escape from any sort of policy violations. This has been the case since this game has even allowed character transfers. It's nothing new, I'm just repeating the policy." - Wyrom

So clearly a lie.

[Methais]

I think Wyrom is generally a very chill guy but speaking in general this is a mind-numbingly dumb policy. It's like if you buy a used car and the previous owner had a DUI, you now also have a DUI on your record.

What would stop some dick from transferring his character around to wipe his slate clean over and over though?

[Rjex]

What would stop some dick from transferring his character around to wipe his slate clean over and over though?

The hassle of getting a new banking identity each time? I dunno but that seems way less probable to me than a bunch of random people getting fucked over for something the prior owners did. Also I don't see why they can't have a voluntary verification system at least where you can submit your driver's license or something to show that you are not, in fact, some dude that you bought characters from, and thereby get a clean slate that way. The way they do it now just smacks of north korea where you get punished for 3 generations, well, at least they stop at 3 generations, unlike simu who's apparently happy to persecute every owner for something a character did 10 owners ago.

[Glaves]

The hassle of getting new banking identity each time? I dunno but that seems way less probable to me than a bunch of random people getting fucked over for something the prior owners did.

It would be easy enough to simply use prepaid credit cards that you can put in any name you want.

[Gelston]

"GameMasters and offsite staff have no records of who you are. We have characters and accounts, that's it. We aren't going to be able to dig into who all was who or if someone is trying to escape from any sort of policy violations. This has been the case since this game has even allowed character transfers. It's nothing new, I'm just repeating the policy." - Wyrom

So clearly a lie.

It isn't a lie. Gamemasters and offsite staff don't have those records. Billing(which is onsite) has a way to tie accounts. That is it. Billing isn't Gamemasters.

[Neveragain]

It isn't a lie. Gamemasters and offsite staff don't have those records. Billing(which is onsite) has a way to tie accounts. That is it. Billing isn't Gamemasters.

I wonder if Chris has turned into a raging alcoholic over the years?

[Fleur-de-me]

It isn't a lie. Gamemasters and offsite staff don't have those records. Billing(which is onsite) has a way to tie accounts. That is it. Billing isn't Gamemasters.

To insinuate that Gamemasters and offsite staff don't have some kind of access to the billing department when or if they 'need' to is disingenuous at best.

[Gelston]

To insinuate that Gamemasters and offsite staff don't have some kind of access to the billing department when or if they 'need' to is disingenuous at best.

They have to call/email billing. They don't have direct access to any of that system. Really, only Chris does.

[Fleur-de-me]

They have to call/email billing. They don't have direct access to any of that system. Really, only Chris does.

I dare to say that having access to Chris is having access to the system, no? I mean she's an employee it's not like she can refuse a legit request for an authorized staff member, GM, offsite person or what have you without risk of being terminated.

[Gelston]

I dare to say that having access to Chris is having access to the system, no? I mean she's an employee it's not like she can refuse a legit request for an authorized staff member, GM, offsite person or what have you without risk of being terminated.

I think they'd terminate just about any offsite GM before they'd get rid of Chris. PMs, SGM, GMs, FGM, CGMs, GMAs don't have access to the billing system themselves, which is exactly what Wyrom said. Chris does. Everyone is getting off the point though, it would be very time intensive for Chris to go around and do that everytime an account changes hands, just don't do retarded shit and it doesn't matter if your account has past warnings.

[Methais]

The hassle of getting a new banking identity each time? I dunno but that seems way less probable to me than a bunch of random people getting fucked over for something the prior owners did. Also I don't see why they can't have a voluntary verification system at least where you can submit your driver's license or something to show that you are not, in fact, some dude that you bought characters from, and thereby get a clean slate that way. The way they do it now just smacks of north korea where you get punished for 3 generations, well, at least they stop at 3 generations, unlike simu who's apparently happy to persecute every owner for something a character did 10 owners ago.

It would make sense.

But yeah, there are plenty of deranged people who would jump through all those hoops just to keep wiping their slate clean.

GS is/was literally life to some of them.

The true answer is Simu is just lazy.


The good news is that it's not hard at all to just not get warnings. Just don't be a jackass and that's 99.9999% of the work. The other .0001% is don't use trash scripts if you're gonna afk it. Or be Villorn.

[Gelston]

It would make sense.

But yeah, there are plenty of deranged people who would jump through all those hoops just to keep wiping their slate clean.

GS is/was literally life to some of them.

The true answer is Simu is just lazy.

It is because their systems are stupid and old. They can't even remove the forums from Billing.

Honestly though, what other game even allows you to blatantly sell your accounts in the first place?

[Methais]

It is because their systems are stupid and old. They can't even remove the forums from Billing.

Honestly though, what other game even allows you to blatantly sell your accounts in the first place?

The same other games who use slave labor for their GMs.

[Gelston]

The same other games who use slave labor for their GMs.

Don't you bring China into this.

[Methais]

Don't you bring China into this.

"ni hao WoW gold 5 million/$2.99 please visit www.wowomgsomuchgold.com/youbuynow"

[Rjex]

I've said for a while we need to let Chinese farmers know about GS so they can help fix our economy.

[Fortybox]

It is because their systems are stupid and old. They can't even remove the forums from Billing.

Honestly though, what other game even allows you to blatantly sell your accounts in the first place?

Gotta love that billing can't be removed from the forums but they can monitor lootcap better than the CIA.

[Methais]

Gotta love that billing can't be removed from the forums but they can monitor lootcap better than the CIA.

If I wasn't so lazy I'd bounce my characters back and forth between other accounts every time they hit loot cap just to see how Simu would react.


Simu's reaction: "We have removed loot from the game entirely outside of pay events. This is good for the game. Trust us."

Probably.

[Fleur-de-me]

Gotta love that billing can't be removed from the forums but they can monitor lootcap better than the CIA.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Fortybox again.

[Fortybox]

If I wasn't so lazy I'd bounce my characters back and forth between other accounts every time they hit loot cap just to see how Simu would react.


Simu's reaction: "We have removed loot from the game entirely outside of pay events. This is good for the game. Trust us."

Probably.

You'd cause Estild's computer to catch fire and then he would be mad and decide to do another wizard lore review where fire lore boosts water-based attacks.

[Neveragain]

You'd cause Estild's computer to catch fire and then he would be mad and decide to do another wizard lore review where fire lore boosts water-based attacks.

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2CCX9FF/cunning-guy-browsing-the-net-close-up-photo-isolated-black-backgroundstudio-shot-fat-man-in-headphones-listening-to-rap-music-2CCX9FF.jpg

[Gelston]

If I wasn't so lazy I'd bounce my characters back and forth between other accounts every time they hit loot cap just to see how Simu would react.


Simu's reaction: "We have removed loot from the game entirely outside of pay events. This is good for the game. Trust us."

Probably.

They'd probably enjoy it because you're paying them $15 each transfer.

[audioserf]

$20, lol

[Fortybox]

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/2CCX9FF/cunning-guy-browsing-the-net-close-up-photo-isolated-black-backgroundstudio-shot-fat-man-in-headphones-listening-to-rap-music-2CCX9FF.jpg

Real life footage for sure

[Rjex]

"Stop buying characters then? Most of the character sales occur on PC and we all know what that place is like."

You know what this place is like.

[Gelston]

$20, lol

Oh, yeah. It went up with inflation.

[gs4Pawn]

Overall this seems crazy.

The sheer amount of time to get anything done in GSIV is astounding.

Take the hours we have put into GS, and then Multiply it by your Hourly. Figure out how much you've really invested?

[SonoftheNorth]

Maybe they are going to release level boost potions soon and want to cut down on character sales because they only get $20 and not all of it.

[Fortybox]

Maybe they are going to release level boost potions soon and want to cut down on character sales because they only get $20 and not all of it.

Rendena would buy all of the level boost potions...





















But still won't hit 100.




https://media.giphy.com/media/UWERvU4Nzn1ExkPKTx/giphy.gif

[Realk]

But still won't hit 100.


fucking lol

[Rjex]

Kinda surprising how many people are willing to suck up to simu on the official forums and go out of their way to justify bad policies. I guess that's why they feel they can get way with anything, there'll always be someone willing to kiss their ass all day no matter what they do.

[Tgo01]

Kinda surprising how many people are willing to suck up to simu on the official forums and go out of their way to justify bad policies. I guess that's why they feel they can get way with anything, there'll always be someone willing to kiss their ass all day no matter what they do.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81H-x2U-PSL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

[Fortybox]

Some discussion last night about adding a new empath service: remove HMC. Interesting.

[Methais]

Oh, yeah. It went up with fire extinguisher inspection costs.

Fixed.

[Methais]

Rendena would buy all of the level boost potions...





















But still won't hit 100.




https://media.giphy.com/media/UWERvU4Nzn1ExkPKTx/giphy.gif

And then reroll anyway.

[Methais]

Kinda surprising how many people are willing to suck up to simu on the official forums and go out of their way to justify bad policies. I guess that's why they feel they can get way with anything, there'll always be someone willing to kiss their ass all day no matter what they do.

I never understood these idiots. Like what do they get out of it? A GM speaking directly to them now and then? Oh wow.

Considering the GS player base though, I guess it's not unreasonable to assume that even just that would make some of these retards cream their pants.

[Fortybox]

And then reroll anyway.

Into the exact same profession with a gender change.

[Methais]

Into the exact same profession with a gender change.

Followed by "Guys how do I play <this profession>?" on LNet, which is then followed up by "I'm quitting Gemstone."

[Fortybox]

Followed by "Guys how do I play <this profession>?" on LNet, which is then randomly followed up by "I've found poop on my bed", officially followed up by "I'm quitting Gemstone."

FTFY

[Methais]

FTFY

Is she quitting Gemstone because she found poop on her bed? Or did she find poop on her bed because she's quitting Gemstone?


Also, is there an actual story behind this? :lol:

[bunnymustdie]

Also, is there an actual story behind this? :lol:

She once talked about how she spent a whole night sleeping in soiled brown bed sheets in a curiously bragging manner. When people reacted in horror, made fun of her and brought it up again as soon as hours/days later, she denied everything.

[Fortybox]

Is she quitting Gemstone because she found poop on her bed? Or did she find poop on her bed because she's quitting Gemstone?


Also, is there an actual story behind this? :lol:

Once upon a time on lnet, out of nowhere with no context at all whatsoever (on merchant):


[Merchant]-GSIV:Rendena: "I have poop on the corner of my sheet...i'm, still trying to figure out how it got there"

[Methais]

She once talked about how she spent a whole night sleeping in soiled brown bed sheets in a curiously bragging manner. When people reacted in horror, made fun of her and brought it up again as soon as hours/days later, she denied everything.

https://memes.memedrop.io/production/ZqDP8VXk5m3L/source.gif


[Merchant]-GSIV:Rendena: "I have poop on the corner of my sheet...i'm, still trying to figure out how it got there"

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7b/38/ad/7b38add34dc6a4af73441f45761f0cf3.gif

[audioserf]

I still think there's a decent chance the Rendena persona is a long term Pathragers troll, which would be the greatest GS trolling achievement in recent memory

[Methais]

I still think there's a decent chance the Rendena persona is a long term Pathragers troll, which would be the greatest GS trolling achievement in recent memory

Rendena bought silvers once and didn't use Friends & Family.

Pretty sure Pathragers would never do such an outrageous thing.

[Glaves]

Rendena bought silvers once and didn't use Friends & Family.

Pretty sure Pathragers would never do such an outrageous thing.

That's just part of the long con dude.

[Methais]

That's just part of the long con dude.

https://i.imgur.com/NDXY6nu.gif