Bless System Proposal v2.0

[SonoftheNorth]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dHwFm8BQidYis6DwsLSR2Ue3CkzXjHOaFh_PObdJQJc/edit

[SonoftheNorth]

HELL YES

[Orthin]

sounds pretty amazing

[Taernath]

Hot.

[Winter]

sounds pretty amazing

^^
This, it's better than what I was hoping for, what a fantastic spell.

[hamsquatch]

Nice, I'd be pretty upset if I had GUB on anything though.

[BLZrizz]

Nice, I'd be pretty upset if I had GUB on anything though.

Not sure why. Anything folks are spending to get GUB on would likely be beyond the reach of any PCs to successfully permabless. Are you just talking about the additional benefit (+10 AS) being kinda weak?

[Derex]

Nice, I'd be pretty upset if I had GUB on anything though.

Seems fair consider they will get +20 or +10 and flares or +10
And hcw

[Orthin]

Not sure why. Anything folks are spending to get GUB on would likely be beyond the reach of any PCs to successfully permabless. Are you just talking about the additional benefit (+10 AS) being kinda weak?

my guess would be the last piece, the +10 AS and natural T5 for something they probably spent 300-600k BS for how ever much that ish is

[Winter]

Sanctify spell strength modifiers: level, Cleric spell ranks, Wisdom bonus, Influence bonus, Spirit Mana Control, Magic Item Use, Arcane Symbols, if the room is a shrine dedicated to the Cleric’s deity or alignment.


Oh pants, I tanked my Cleric's influence stat, but looking on the bright side at least it's an elf.

[hamsquatch]

my guess would be the last piece, the +10 AS and natural T5 for something they probably spent 300-600k BS for how ever much that ish is

What he said, it seems a little light for the price.

[Astray]

These (proposed) updates don't suck shit through a straw?

WHAT IS HAPPENING

[SonoftheNorth]

What he said, it seems a little light for the price.


13x weapon against undead is pretty good

[hamsquatch]

13x weapon against undead is pretty good
Amazing, actually. 500k BS seems like quite a bit for it, especially given limited availability. I don't have anything with GUB, so if the owners are happy I don't have shit to say.

[Vusit]

wonder how this will work with paladin bonded weapons?

[BLZrizz]

Amazing, actually. 500k BS seems like quite a bit for it, especially given limited availability. I don't have anything with GUB, so if the owners are happy I don't have shit to say.

Interestingly it sells out almost immediately every DR, even when they add restocks.

I worked out the numbers under the new proposal. Lets assume a 1200 item difficulty rating, not modifiable by any PC.

GUB: 500k BS

New system:
200k: GUB legacy bonus (+10), equivalent to two HESS "bane boosts", 100k each
50k: T5 sanctify, 10 weeks of "cleric juice" at 5k BS/week
250k: 5 +500 skill modifier potions from DR, 50k each
500k Total

The numbers seem to work out to me.

EDIT: The above doesn't account for the functionality gap that was inherent in the old system between a GUB and a non-GUB weapon. I think adding holy water to existing GUB items would cover that gap nicely.

[hamsquatch]

Interestingly it sells out almost immediately every DR, even when they add restocks.

I worked out the numbers under the new proposal. Lets assume a 1200 item difficulty rating, not modifiable by any PC.

GUB: 500k BS

New system:
200k: GUB legacy bonus (+10), equivalent to two HESS "bane boosts", 100k each
50k: T5 sanctify, 10 weeks of "cleric juice" at 5k BS/week
250k: 5 +500 skill modifier potions from DR, 50k each
500k Total

The numbers seem to work out to me.

EDIT: The above doesn't account for the functionality gap that was inherent in the old system between a GUB and a non-GUB weapon. I think adding holy water to existing GUB items would cover that gap nicely.

I believe you and you have more experience with the good stuff than I do. To me, personally, the GUB certificates seem much more valuable without the change.

I’m excited for the changes.

[Donquix]

It's a hit for how good GUB is for sure. But plain "undead bane" is probably still the best generic bane if you don't have a specific purpose in mind (like grim bane) as it covers a wide range of creatures across every level.

[Gelston]

Cool, my little 4x permablessed will essentially become 7x against undead.

[BLZrizz]

I believe you and you have more experience with the good stuff than I do. To me, personally, the GUB certificates seem much more valuable without the change.

I’m excited for the changes.

So am I, being a GUB retail purchaser as well. But that's why I added that last note.

Cost to replicate, value of relative functionality, and market value are valid ways to measure item value and are rarely ever the same at the same time, with the first two tending to feed the third. They didn't think about this when making the changes to ranged/elemental bows (vastly diminished cost to replicate and value of relative functionality), which destroyed their market value for the most past. Here, the fact that it's a player service with skill thresholds keeps cost to replicate high at least for very high end items (pretty much the same level), which should keep market value up, even though the value of relative functionality is diminished somewhat.

They are making a change that's better for the game overall, rising the tide significantly for 99% of boats, while only raising the tide for that 1% a moderate amount. This value of relative functionality is where they can help a bit more by adding a bit more juice to prior GUB owners.

[Skeletor]

I have to defer to Blzrizz since he does have an intimate knowledge about super high end items. But I kinda do agree with hamsquatch from a mechanical point of view.

T5 Cleric sanctify is almost as good as GUB. Both are +10 to AS, GUB can have weighting or plasma flares(?) but the T5 can get permanent holy water flares. Most importantly, GUB's big feature was that any super weapon can have a permabless and now with the changes to bless none of that matters.

[SonoftheNorth]

I have to defer to Blzrizz since he does have an intimate knowledge about super high end items. But I kinda do agree with hamsquatch from a mechanical point of view.

T5 Cleric sanctify is almost as good as GUB. Both are +10 to AS, GUB can have weighting or plasma flares(?) but the T5 can get permanent holy water flares. Most importantly, GUB's big feature was that any super weapon can have a permabless and now with the changes to bless none of that matters.


Fuck off macguyver

[Orthin]

I have to defer to Blzrizz since he does have an intimate knowledge about super high end items. But I kinda do agree with hamsquatch from a mechanical point of view.

T5 Cleric sanctify is almost as good as GUB. Both are +10 to AS, GUB can have weighting or plasma flares(?) but the T5 can get permanent holy water flares. Most importantly, GUB's big feature was that any super weapon can have a permabless and now with the changes to bless none of that matters.

The way I read it the GUB gets the +10 on top of the T5. So it would have more than just a T5 sanct

[Gelston]

The way I read it the GUB gets the +10 on top of the T5. So it would have more than just a T5 sanct

Yeah, that is how I read it.

[Skeletor]

Someone already asked on the officials about additional +10 to make it +20 total. Hopefully this is the case.

Something someone mentioned on the officials and the really big winners are Claidhs. They are now blessable with Holy water flares to boot!

[Gelston]

Someone already asked on the officials about additional +10 to make it +20 total. Hopefully this is the case.

Something someone mentioned on the officials and the really big winners are Claidhs. They are now blessable with Holy water flares to boot!

If it doesn't, that makes Permablessed weapons worse than Tier 5 sanctified, which wouldn't make sense.

Permablessed
Becomes tier 5 sanctified and gains a legacy bonus of +5 AS against undead.

I read that as gaining the benefits of tier 5, and an additional +5. The same logic would apply to GUB.

[Tgo01]

Changes look awesome. However I think an innate physical damage reduction of 25% is kind of low, should be 50%, but the changes to bless and the new spell look fantastic.

Did capped clerics just double in value overnight?

[drauz]

Nice, I'd be pretty upset if I had GUB on anything though.

Why? My 8x(10x) weapon is now a 8x(14x) weapon, seems pretty great.

[drauz]

so so nerf to GUB. depends on how difficult it is to tack on that +10 AS against undead in the future.

you gotta think of it this way...knowing what you know now aka bless and undead mean shit and you can get cool Estild flares and AS permanently from a player and have the cat b slot open would you still have gotten the 500k bs gub cert?

It all depends on if a cleric can actually do anything to your weapon. They wouldn't have been able to do mine, so yeah I would have still gotten it.

[Gelston]

Remember, this is all a design PROPOSAL. Breakage's return was further along and then was dropped.

[Dendum]

Changes look awesome. However I think an innate physical damage reduction of 25% is kind of low, should be 50%, but the changes to bless and the new spell look fantastic.

Did capped clerics just double in value overnight?

25% does seem kind of low...25% with regeneration sounds just right.

[Stanley Burrell]

A Cleric with at least 100 ranks of Blessings lore can spend 200,000 Devotion to attempt to grant permanent holy water flares to a T5 sanctified weapon (same flares that 304 grants).

Baller. Anyone even want to hazard a guess on how much it is going to cost for the Cleric juice it'll take to do the above?

[Dendum]

Baller. Anyone even want to hazard a guess on how much it is going to cost for the Cleric juice it'll take to do the above?

Not sure if I want to add 150 difficult to a high end item for something I can recreate with spells. I guess it would come down to the +10 AS and if there is an easier way to get it or not.

[SonoftheNorth]

Baller. Anyone even want to hazard a guess on how much it is going to cost for the Cleric juice it'll take to do the above?

Since it only works on undead I'd assume it will end up being cheaper than enchanting/ensorcell but more expensive than tattoos.

[malmuddy]

Since it only works on undead I'd assume it will end up being cheaper than enchanting/ensorcell but more expensive than tattoos.

I had the same thought. This has pretty much zero value to me as I don't hunt undead. But it is a pretty cool potential update nevertheless.

I do have a capped cleric that I don't play much that might see more action if this does turn out to be a desired service.

[hamsquatch]

Why? My 8x(10x) weapon is now a 8x(14x) weapon, seems pretty great.
Can't you see I'm trying to help you people!

Not really, but I still maintain that 500k BS + scarcity should just feel a little more special - maybe some defensive or resistance buff. It is a tough spot though, making the presumably high-end stuff even more potent. I have no clue what the balance is, they may have already found it.

[Fortybox]

Meh.

I’m more excited about the capability of not having to worry about bless as a requisite. 25% reduction isn’t bad at all.

[Skeletor]

Meh.

I’m more excited about the capability of not having to worry about bless as a requisite. 25% reduction isn’t bad at all.

Getting a bless nowadays is too ez though. Dreaven can give you a bless for 300 odd swings and they now they don't wear out on the living either.

[Orthin]

Meh.

I’m more excited about the capability of not having to worry about bless as a requisite. 25% reduction isn’t bad at all.

The freedom to just do those bounties when they pop up will be nice, especially without having to have a back up set of gimped weapons.

[Orthin]

Getting a bless nowadays is too ez though. Dreaven can give you a bless for 300 odd swings and they now they don't wear out on the living either.

yes and no. Blessing my back up weapons, sure...blessing the weapons I actually wish could be blessed, not possible (for now)

[audioserf]

This proposal is great, I don't have any beefs with any part of it, and I hope it makes it to live with minimal if any changes. Everybody benefits from the QOL update, and this is a buff for all 3 societies if you think about it. Volners benefit because they can now Sym Bless literally anything they own, it'll last longer because bless won't drain swings on living and doesn't care about WPS anymore. Being in GoS or COL is now more attractive to people who otherwise would have felt forced into Voln (especially at cap where lots of areas have a living/undead mix) to deal with bless bullshit.

[Aluvius]

I wonder how they'll address the Ironwright script. On the face of it it just received a giant upgrade with Cat B being opened and if you only hunt living you'd never have to worry about the script flares running out of bless charges. I'd be fine if they left it like it is, its not like flares of any kind are mechanically OP (outside of some blink uses I guess).

I don't feel as stupid for going with the Web and Airbolt choices now on some uac gloves lol.

[Rinualdo]

I wonder how they'll address the Ironwright script. On the face of it it just received a giant upgrade with Cat B being opened and if you only hunt living you'd never have to worry about the script flares running out of bless charges. I'd be fine if they left it like it is, its not like flares of any kind are mechanically OP (outside of some blink uses I guess).

I don't feel as stupid for going with the Web and Airbolt choices now on some uac gloves lol.

Separately evaluated.


Naijin — Yesterday at 1:52 PM
Ironwright being a script means it'll need evaluated on its own.

[drumpel]

I don't have any GUB items or permablessed items and such....

But I guess I'd be kind of pissed to get a special item I may have spent large quantities of money to obtain, only to find out later I kind of spent a lot of money on something that's no longer really special.

I'm always kind of leery of fancy shit they push out at DR or other events that cost extra money because usually sometime down the road the expensive item you paid for usually finds its way to becoming more main stream and no longer fancy.

While the change about not needing a bless to hit undead is nice, it's just the overall devaluation (at least how I see it) of all the big ticket items from years past.

[Dendum]

While I agree that GUB/Permablessed becomes slightly less desirable I also agree this change greatly outweighs any devaluation concerns. Much like the ranged change made spirit gloves and duping quivers slightly less valuable (but still valuable) but was greatly needed and beneficial to the game as a whole.

[Gelston]

While I agree that GUB/Permablessed becomes slightly less desirable I also agree this change greatly outweighs any devaluation concerns. Much like the ranged change made spirit gloves and duping quivers slightly less valuable (but still valuable) but was greatly needed and beneficial to the game as a whole.

I'm happy with it for my permablessed. It'll still do what I got it to do, but with 15 more AS and now it is more open to other things.

If a bunch of people want to guilt trip them into making it better, I have no problem though. :D

[Macillus]

While I agree that GUB/Permablessed becomes slightly less desirable I also agree this change greatly outweighs any devaluation concerns. Much like the ranged change made spirit gloves and duping quivers slightly less valuable (but still valuable) but was greatly needed and beneficial to the game as a whole.

I agree the change is overall very cool. As a player, I'm super excited for it. As a GUB owner, I'm meh.

If we're talking one big scale that weighs the benefits for all vs the devaluation for a few, there's no question the positive outweighs the negative. But why do we have to weigh one against the other when it's also fairly easy to mitigate the devaluation for the small group at no cost to the whole? And why wouldn't you, when that small group are those dropping $1k+ on item upgrades?

[Fortybox]

I agree the change is overall very cool. As a player, I'm super excited for it. As a GUB owner, I'm meh.

If we're talking one big scale that weighs the benefits for all vs the devaluation for a few, there's no question the positive outweighs the negative. But why do we have to weigh one against the other when it's also fairly easy to mitigate the devaluation for the small group at no cost to the whole? And why wouldn't you, when that small group are those dropping $1k+ on item upgrades?

Because Simu is dumb.

[Skeletor]

I agree the change is overall very cool. As a player, I'm super excited for it. As a GUB owner, I'm meh.

If we're talking one big scale that weighs the benefits for all vs the devaluation for a few, there's no question the positive outweighs the negative. But why do we have to weigh one against the other when it's also fairly easy to mitigate the devaluation for the small group at no cost to the whole? And why wouldn't you, when that small group are those dropping $1k+ on item upgrades?

You guys that are getting grandfathered in will have an additional +10 AS that noone from this point on will ever be able to get. Some asshat who has the exact same stat'd weapon as you will ask you in some future date ,"heeeyyy how come you have +10 more AS than me? QQ" And then you'll all be like cause I'm special and Uncle Estild.

[Stanley Burrell]

Wait. Will my 8x GUB now have demon-killing capability if it can now be blessed or something? I don't know how this works, help me God.

[Stanley Burrell]

I haven't slayed a demon since the massive tenebrous oculoths in the Mandis crystal quest. I need to kill a demon.

[Roblar]

Wait. Will my 8x GUB now have demon-killing capability if it can now be blessed or something? I don't know how this works, help me God.


It already can hit a demon, if by 8x you mean at least a full enchant (+40). A GUB item does not need to be blessed, it already is.

[Stanley Burrell]

It already can hit a demon, if by 8x you mean at least a full enchant (+40). A GUB item does not need to be blessed, it already is.

Oh snap, that's the tits man.

Thanks 'Mander :)

[allen]

Y’all think kroderine will be able to accept this service?

[Tgo01]

Y’all think kroderine will be able to accept this service?

If kroderine can accept blesses then I think it should be able to accept this service.

If kroderine can't accept blesses then I imagine it would not be able to accept this service.

Only time will tell if the GMs agree.