I blame longshot ...

[Tsa`ah]

Fucker!

In order to go through with my expansion proposals, the plant has to pick up some business from sister locations that I did not want. Namely Mitsubishi.

It's not so much that I didn't the additional business, I didn't want the added hoops to jump through. We're working on bringing the plant up to food grade requirements and will be breaking ground next month on expanding.

Now the big problem with Mitsubishi isn't just the changes we have to make that will effect our existing business ... but dealing with Japanese interpreters is about to drive me up the fucking wall.

Do these companies take applicants on their word alone? "Yes, me speaka engrish very well!".

The woman I have been dealing with has hung up on me 6 times so far, two of those today alone. Our poor receptionist takes the worst of it since she's the first point of contact. The very first contact with the translator took 10 minutes to figure out that she needed to speak with me. Needless to say she was irritated when she finally got to my extension. At that point it took me about 5 minutes to figure out she wanted to schedule a tour.

The faxes from this woman and other "English" speaking Mitsubishi employees are even harder to figure out. Some of it reads like 80's valley girl babble ... "We like to like (something I assume is a transliteral Japanese word that I'm supposed to understand) look at good operations of (something else I have no fucking clue about) also we like understand (I'm going to assume process or management chain) would be good".

I shit you not, almost every call with this woman has ended with "Don't you understand English!".

So, I'm going to assume this was one of longshot's former students and blame my developing brain tumor on him.

This puts me in a predicament of sorts. I have expressed my concerns to our stateside headquarters and they, in turn, have been chattering with our Swiss parent company. The word, as of right now, is that the Swiss office will be sending a translator from Staffordshire (UK office) for the tour. Won't this be some kind of offence? I know I wouldn't send a translator to Japan unless I knew the person spoke fluent Japanese ... apparently the Japanese don't have the same standard.

I'm also concerned about appearance. Not of my staff, but my own. I dress for work in a manner that is comfortable to me. Jeans, t-shirt, denim button down if it's cold. For tours I'll throw on some khakis and a dressier button down and make sure I'm groomed (stubbled face, clean neck ... no cap and I don't take out the ear rings). Will the Japanese expect more? Am I going to need to wear a fucking suit, lose the earrings and shave?

I love the challenge ... I just hate the unknown and I detest unnecessary hoops.

[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Tsa`ah]

The Humanity! Tsa'ah in a suit...

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Dave
The Humanity! Tsa'ah in a suit...

Fuck that ... I'll go for a second vasectomy first.

[Latrinsorm]

You remind me of this stoner kid I knew in high school, with your "earrings" and your "denim".

Wear a MacArthur T-shirt. :thumbsup:

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
You remind me of this stoner kid I knew in high school, with your "earrings" and your "denim".

Wear a MacArthur T-shirt. :thumbsup:

You're thinking hoodlum denim jacket. Think shirts ... like a farmer's (well maybe not).

Levi's denim shirt, top three not buttoned, tucked in, sleeves rolled.

Not that I wasn't that pot-head ... AT THAT AGE!

[Brattt8525]

I called my kids dad and asked his opinion, he is the Global Director for a fortune 500 company and frequents Japan China and Brazil. He said lose the earrings, be clean shaven and the khakis and dress shirt are fine. Business casual dress is appropriate for a plant tour.

[longshot]

Ha!

My students are in factories, hostess bars, or jail! Only in their wettest threesome fantasy would they make it to Mitsubishi.

--In Japan, the size of the company determines it's prestige. Mitsubishi is gold.

To give you some idea, the trading arm of Mitsubishi is the largest of the big five trading firms. I work for one of the other big five firms, and in Japan it really turns heads when I say where I work. These people are used to being treated well...


Originally posted by Tsa`ah

This puts me in a predicament of sorts. I have expressed my concerns to our stateside headquarters and they, in turn, have been chattering with our Swiss parent company. The word, as of right now, is that the Swiss office will be sending a translator from Staffordshire (UK office) for the tour. Won't this be some kind of offence? I know I wouldn't send a translator to Japan unless I knew the person spoke fluent Japanese ... apparently the Japanese don't have the same standard.

I'm not sure I understand this paragraph.

If you have a translator there, it won't offend them.

I think you're trying to say that having a translator there will be directly saying to them, "Your English is shit"? Is this correct?


I'm also concerned about appearance. Not of my staff, but my own. I dress for work in a manner that is comfortable to me. Jeans, t-shirt, denim button down if it's cold. For tours I'll throw on some khakis and a dressier button down and make sure I'm groomed (stubbled face, clean neck ... no cap and I don't take out the ear rings). Will the Japanese expect more? Am I going to need to wear a fucking suit, lose the earrings and shave?



Appearance and first impressions are everything.

Have business cards. Accept their business cards with both hands. Give your business card with both hands. When you get their business card, examine it for moment before you put it in your pocket- even if it's all in Japanese. Don't fold it either. This is custom/quasi tradition. It's hardwired in their heads.

I think something to remember with them is that any little perceived effort to understand their quirky and strange ways will go a very long way.

If you see them and can figure out to blurt out "Hajimemashite", they would be very impressed. After they introduce themselves, "Dozo yoroshiku onegaishimasu". You'd be amazed what it can do... if you care that much... which might be an emphatic "NO!" here... which is okay :)

I know this is the last thing you want to hear, but a suit and a shave would do a lot for them. Just my thoughts.

And when you get frustrated and want to kill someone, just remember that I have dealt with this every single day of my life for over six years. (between Professors, coworkers, and now customers)

Tanoshinde, ne!

"Waikarimas, Toranaga Sama."

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by longshot
Ha!

My students are in factories, hostess bars, or jail! Only in their wettest threesome fantasy would they make it to Mitsubishi.

I'm thinking one slipped through you bastard.


--In Japan, the size of the company determines it's prestige. Mitsubishi is gold.

I get daily faxes from several people in our corporate chain telling me how big this is. The original plan, which was formed last year, was to base this production line in one of our Michigan plants, within the last month this changed due to my spree of proposals and the restructuring of our production processes. While I like the vote of confidence, I'm sick of hearing how big it is for Mitsubishi to consider us.


To give you some idea, the trading arm of Mitsubishi is the largest of the big five trading firms. I work for one of the other big five firms, and in Japan it really turns heads when I say where I work. These people are used to being treated well...

So does this mean that hot asian women will throw themselves at me should I ever divorce my wife and visit Japan? I mean, association with Mitsubishi should be just as golden right?


I think you're trying to say that having a translator there will be directly saying to them, "Your English is shit"? Is this correct?

More like ... your translator's english sucks smelly shit and you shouldn't have hired/sent her.

I'm more concerned with insulting the translator, and by doing that ... indirectly insulting those in the tour.



Appearance and first impressions are everything.

Have business cards.

I have


Accept their business cards with both hands. Give your business card with both hands. When you get their business card, examine it for moment before you put it in your pocket- even if it's all in Japanese. Don't fold it either. This is custom/quasi tradition. It's hardwired in their heads.

Noted


I think something to remember with them is that any little perceived effort to understand their quirky and strange ways will go a very long way.

I'm easily fascinated and curious to begin with ... shouldn't be a problem.


If you see them and can figure out to blurt out "Hajimemashite", they would be very impressed. After they introduce themselves, "Dozo yoroshiku onegaishimasu". You'd be amazed what it can do... if you care that much... which might be an emphatic "NO!" here... which is okay :)

Translation?


I know this is the last thing you want to hear, but a suit and a shave would do a lot for them. Just my thoughts.

So earrings are ok then? But ya ... fuck me running.

This means I have to visit a tailor.

I understand perception/appearance is everything to some people, I would rather avoid the BS and judge by ability and performance rather than the cut of the clothes. Don't get me wrong, if a person's work is top notch, but they're slobs who need to bathe; I'm not going to bother with them. I'm not going to judge a person I'm interviewing by their hair cut and tie however. I'm just as likely to hire someone who looks as if they made the effort to make themselves presentable than I am to hire the person who looks like they iron their socks and underwear.

So in essence ... I hate the idea of making myself visually acceptable for another person unless there's sex involved. But if it's going to help, I'll have to take this one in the ass and make the company pay dearly in the near future.

[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by longshot


Appearance and first impressions are everything.

Have business cards. Accept their business cards with both hands. Give your business card with both hands. When you get their business card, examine it for moment before you put it in your pocket- even if it's all in Japanese. Don't fold it either. This is custom/quasi tradition. It's hardwired in their heads.

There is actually a ritual that deals with accepting business cards (I forget what it is called) longshot help me out on this please, its annoying me that I cant figure it out.

Tsa'ah, Don't you think your wife will be happy to see you all dressed up and clean, By the sound of it its something she has not dealt with in a long time. There probably will be sex involved.. and maybe another kid.

[HarmNone]

Is that meishi, Dave, or is meishi the word for business card? I forget, dammit!

[Rutilcaper]

Originally posted by Tsa`ahTranslation?

I don't know the direct translation, but it's essentially like saying "Nice to meet you" and "Pleasure to make your acquaintence."

[Latrinsorm]

That or "boy we sure kicked your ass in world war II!! Am I right? Am I right?"

[longshot]

Not everything this guy has written is entirely correct. In fact, there are several big mistakes.

I'm only providing the link to give you a taste of the insanity you will soon experience.

http://www.netcentral.co.uk/satcure/meishi.htm

Enjoy!:lol:

poor Tsa'ah, I feel bad for you.

[Drew]

Tsa'ah: When I was growing up my dad would always say "You can never be overdressed." I know what it's like, not wanting to put on a suit because it looked silly, I felt that way too... when I was 7 (zing!). Seriously though, given it's such a big deal to your employer and given that people will judge you based on your appearance whether you like it or not you should take this oppurtunity to impress both of them. Shave, take off your earrings, put on a suitcoat (even if you think you look silly, they won't). If you don't own a suitcoat, you can buy one from a thrift store/goodwill/salvation army for less than 5 bucks that looks good enough to pass muster (seriously). Best of luck.

[peam]

I don't know what the fuck these other guys are talking about...

You need:
1) A Kimono.
2) Headband.
3) Ninja Sword.
4) Mandles. (See PB for these, just the mandles.. no socks)

Should anyone dishonor you, cut them.

[Edited on 4-17-2005 by peam]

[GSTamral]

<<<
I shit you not, almost every call with this woman has ended with "Don't you understand English!".
>>>

If this was ever said to a client for most companies, you'd be given a written warning at the very least, and fired from others. I don't care how badly this person speaks english, insulting them or stating something rude to a client or internal customer is extremely unprofessional.

[GSTamral]

<<<
So earrings are ok then? But ya ... fuck me running.

This means I have to visit a tailor.

I understand perception/appearance is everything to some people, I would rather avoid the BS and judge by ability and performance rather than the cut of the clothes. Don't get me wrong, if a person's work is top notch, but they're slobs who need to bathe; I'm not going to bother with them. I'm not going to judge a person I'm interviewing by their hair cut and tie however. I'm just as likely to hire someone who looks as if they made the effort to make themselves presentable than I am to hire the person who looks like they iron their socks and underwear.

So in essence ... I hate the idea of making myself visually acceptable for another person unless there's sex involved. But if it's going to help, I'll have to take this one in the ass and make the company pay dearly in the near future.
>>>

????
Are earrings ok? Need to visit a tailor? For someone so versed in politics, you truly don't seem to know much of anything about business meetings.

No, earrings are not ok. Yes, you should not only be wearing a suit, but you should be coordinating this with any other representatives of your company meeting the client. If one of them decides to make it a black tie affair, everyone should.

Business meetings have little or nothing to do with evaluation of what your product or service is. They have people hard at work analyzing that, and have already determined what means what. Business meetings are all about perception. If they like your offer and don't like the people, they will seek someone else. If they don't like the offer, but really like the people, many a time they may call back and at least offer you a chance to renegotiate.

If you aren't prepared to represent your company in a proper manner, you should send someone else. If you aren't prepared to jump through hoops at times, or spend some days running around like a chicken with your head cut off, then you shouldn't have a job with more than task oriented responsibilities.

<<
I'm not going to judge a person I'm interviewing by their hair cut and tie however.
>>

First of all, much as its sad, you should. Secondly, you are meeting a client. They are interviewing you. If you aren't capable of putting your own personal feelings aside for the good of the company, then I repeat as above, you have been given the position of responsibility in error.

[Edaarin]

I agree with Tamral on the point about the comment/insult of the person on the other end of the phone.

I don't agree with the dress as far as interviewing other people. That depends wholly on the culture at his company. For example, AOL used "casual dress" as a huge selling point during its internship pitch to some of my classmates and me. Earrings are also becoming more acceptable during job interviews (within reason, I'm not talkin huge chunks of ice).

This particular case I think calls for suit and tie. It's funny that you should run into this problem, because I just took part in an international business etiquette seminar a few weeks ago. If I remember right, Japan is one of those countries where it's likely that the guests bring a gift, so you might want to prep for that. Maybe have ready a few token gifts (preferably with your company logo?)

[Drew]

Man Edaarin, what will those crazy asians do next?

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by GSTamral
If this was ever said to a client for most companies, you'd be given a written warning at the very least, and fired from others. I don't care how badly this person speaks english, insulting them or stating something rude to a client or internal customer is extremely unprofessional.

You would have a point ... had I said it. I'll forgive your misunderstanding in consideration of the source.

Shame on you for making assumptions about my professionalism. I earn my way through merit, which should be obvious by now. Earning one's way by merit means busting your ass and getting the job done.

This contract/customer isn't being thrown my way because I dress like a stiff. This contract/customer is being thrown my way because of the achievements this plant has made over the past 3 months.


Originally posted by GSTamral
????
Are earrings ok? Need to visit a tailor? For someone so versed in politics, you truly don't seem to know much of anything about business meetings.

Apparently it's not me that lacks understand. Strangely domestic customers do not even blink at my appearance, nor do they complain. In fact when they leave my presence, or I leave theirs, I routinely receive praise from the customer to my superiors.

I make an effort to understand their needs and deliver a service that is to their satisfaction. What they pay for.

This is a plant tour with a Japanese company. Were it anyone else I wouldn't bother posting as I know how to handle tours and meetings.


No, earrings are not ok. Yes, you should not only be wearing a suit, but you should be coordinating this with any other representatives of your company meeting the client. If one of them decides to make it a black tie affair, everyone should.

This is my plant and my tour. The US office has decided that much. The only other rep from this company that will be present is the UK translator.

In case you didn't understand from the beginning, my only concern is offense. If earrings are going to offend, then I'll lose them. If not, unless corporate dictates a dress code to me, I'll dress in a manner I feel appropriate.

As far as making an impression goes, I let the work do that and disregard opinions of my appearance as they are irrelevant to my capabilities of putting my employer in better financial situations.


Business meetings have little or nothing to do with evaluation of what your product or service is. They have people hard at work analyzing that, and have already determined what means what. Business meetings are all about perception. If they like your offer and don't like the people, they will seek someone else. If they don't like the offer, but really like the people, many a time they may call back and at least offer you a chance to renegotiate.

This is a tour to showcase my production capabilities to a customer who is being pitched a move in operations. If the move goes forward, there will be an expansion of service offered to the customer.


If you aren't prepared to represent your company in a proper manner, you should send someone else. If you aren't prepared to jump through hoops at times, or spend some days running around like a chicken with your head cut off, then you shouldn't have a job with more than task oriented responsibilities.

Don't presume anything about me, as I'm not likely to take the advice of a delivery boy seriously. I know the ins and outs of my position.


First of all, much as its sad, you should. Secondly, you are meeting a client. They are interviewing you. If you aren't capable of putting your own personal feelings aside for the good of the company, then I repeat as above, you have been given the position of responsibility in error.

I'm not where I am because I follow rules and etiquette. I'm here because of my ability to get the job done. I'm here because I get results. If it were for any other reason, the company would have hired some retard with an engineering degree or any other standard variety of office furniture.

I jump through hoops as needed, not for amusement. When the customer throws up a hoop that doesn't make sense, we talk about it. 4 out of 5 times they agree ... it was a stupid hoop.

Thankfully I didn't start a thread blaming you for a poor English speaking translator or asking you for advice in dealing with the Japanese.

Bratt's advice was more relevant than yours and she's not even in the same line of work ... but she knew to ask someone familiar to such situations.

[Edited on 4-17-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Drew
Tsa'ah: When I was growing up my dad would always say "You can never be overdressed." I know what it's like, not wanting to put on a suit because it looked silly, I felt that way too... when I was 7 (zing!). Seriously though, given it's such a big deal to your employer and given that people will judge you based on your appearance whether you like it or not you should take this oppurtunity to impress both of them. Shave, take off your earrings, put on a suitcoat (even if you think you look silly, they won't). If you don't own a suitcoat, you can buy one from a thrift store/goodwill/salvation army for less than 5 bucks that looks good enough to pass muster (seriously). Best of luck.

Suits are for funerals, weddings, and formal social events. Which when you think about it ... all of the afformentioned events are a good calle for a noose.

Never fear, I'll be visiting a tailor tomorrow.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by peam
I don't know what the fuck these other guys are talking about...

You need:
1) A Kimono.
2) Headband.
3) Ninja Sword.
4) Mandles. (See PB for these, just the mandles.. no socks)

Should anyone dishonor you, cut them.

[Edited on 4-17-2005 by peam]

:lol2: Sold!

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by longshot
Not everything this guy has written is entirely correct. In fact, there are several big mistakes.

I'm only providing the link to give you a taste of the insanity you will soon experience.

http://www.netcentral.co.uk/satcure/meishi.htm

Enjoy!:lol:

You make me cry.

[GSTamral]

<<<
Apparently it's not me that lacks understand. Strangely domestic customers do not even blink at my appearance, nor do they complain. In fact when they leave my presence, or I leave theirs, I routinely receive praise from the customer to my superiors.

I make an effort to understand their needs and deliver a service that is to their satisfaction. What they pay for.

This is a plant tour with a Japanese company. Were it anyone else I wouldn't bother posting as I know how to handle tours and meetings.
>>>

Before I even read the rest of your "I'm better than you, I know more than you" nonsense.

Number of meetings I have held with Japanese Customers: 3
Number of meetings you have held with Japanese customers: 0

Number of contracts I've won: 2
Number of contracts you've won: 0

Number of meetings I've had with far east/orient customers: 11
Number of contracts I've won: 9

I've held and done more of these things than you have, and therefore I have a lot more experience than a small time plant manager in a dingy little warehouse.

Yea, but I bet you have a really small penis

[StrayRogue]

I bet he thinks he has a longer wang than Tsa though.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Before I even read the rest of your "I'm better than you, I know more than you" nonsense.

:blah:

You read selectively as it is, comes with the comprehension issues I assume.

Just as you assumed the length of my unemployment, you assume too much in regards to my accomplishments and abilities.

My dingy little warehouse wouldn't be considered for this contract if it's small time plant manager wasn't viewed as capable in the eyes of it's corporate superiors.

And yes, I probably have a bigger penis than you ... and it gets action with real women, not photos of women pulled through cyberstalking.

So press your business blues and tell yourself how great you are. I'll be laughing my ass off the whole time.

[Edited on 4-17-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[longshot]

It it's a plant tour, you should be able to get away without wearing a jacket.

Business casual, as Bratt suggested, should be fine.

I would definitely lose the earrings though. If I forgot to mention this, my bad.

If you have any tattoos (which I'm almost positive you don't), they need to be covered. This is the most important rule. No exceptions.

They won't bring gifts for a plant tour. I'm pretty sure of this.

I think your business card would have to have "Mitsubishi" on it to get access to the unlimited ass and panty dropping I was referring to. Remember, your company is a big part of your identity, and determines everything from social status and salary to the quality of the whore houses you visit.

Anything else specific, shoot me a U2U.

[Drew]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Never fear, I'll be visiting a tailor tomorrow.


Good move :thumbsup:. Good luck!

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Drew
Good move :thumbsup:. Good luck!

The wife is currently on this theatre kick and when I mentioned having to visit the tailor for a work suit ... she went spastic. So now I have 4. Until today, I've only ever owned a single tie.

I'm just glad she doesn't like the clean shave bit.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by longshot
I would definitely lose the earrings though. If I forgot to mention this, my bad.

Frickin Japanese. They'll shove fingers up someone's unsuspecting anus and grab at a penis that doesn't belong to them, but have problems with earrings on men.


If you have any tattoos (which I'm almost positive you don't), they need to be covered. This is the most important rule. No exceptions.

Never claimed I was a good practicing Jew. But unless there's some strange nude ritual that I have to go through ... no chance of it being visible.


Originally posted by Drew
Good move :thumbsup:. Good luck!

The wife is currently on this theatre kick and when I mentioned having to visit the tailor for a work suit ... she went spastic. So now I have 4. Until today, I've only ever owned a single tie.

I'm just glad she doesn't like the clean shave bit.

[Drew2]

I refuse to believe Tsa'ah has the bigger penis without photographic evidence.

With this proof, Tsa'ah will win this and all future arguments, therefore it is absolutely vital.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Tayre
I refuse to believe Tsa'ah has the bigger penis without photographic evidence.

With this proof, Tsa'ah will win this and all future arguments, therefore it is absolutely vital.

:lol2:

I'm not sure if I should be flattered or scared.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by Dave
The Humanity! Tsa'ah in a suit...

Fuck that ... I'll go for a second vasectomy first.

Hey Tsa'ah... let me know if you want to borrow one of my ties for the Tour.
:smilegrin:

[Caiylania]

All I have to say is best wishes. Sounds like you've got it together so let us know how it goes

:)