sex offenders strike again!

[ElanthianSiren]

So sick of all the psychotic people who find it necessary to manhandle and murder little children. Maybe this isn't on the rise; maybe it's just getting more media coverage now, but it sure makes me want to take advantage of the assault weapons ban running out and hunt some child molestors.

Freaking pervy bastards.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20050416/ap_on_re_us/missing_girl

-Melissa

[Back]

There is one reason, be them few, I would actually bear arms.

[HarmNone]

I've always said that when they capture one of these wastes of space, they should put them in a small room, tie them to a chair, and introduce them to a bunch of mothers with baseball bats and other interesting equipment. Then, walk out and shut the door. :devil:

[DeV]

Sexually deviant acts committed against a child are just vile. It's the lowest of the low.

[Edaarin]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/13/daughters.sold.ap/index.html

Just look at the URL.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I've always said that when they capture one of these wastes of space, they should put them in a small room, tie them to a chair, and introduce them to a bunch of mothers with baseball bats and other interesting equipment. Then, walk out and shut the door. :devil:

I would suggest changing that to parents, but since angry mothers with bats cause less damage than angry fathers with bats ... I say sure ... simply because the fuck will suffer longer.

[Leetahkin]

Try sitting through the new Kevin Bacon movie, The Woodsman. Messed up movie, but I'm sure it mirrors real life.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Nobody Cares
Try sitting through the new Kevin Bacon movie, The Woodsman. Messed up movie, but I'm sure it mirrors real life.

Never even heard of it until I just googled it. I don't watch much tv or movies, but I'm not sure I could sit through it... in fact, I'm almost certain I couldn't.

There are many things that I'm capable of -- nuclear chemistry, stock trading, some basic psychology, literary pursuits, but a hollywood attempt to entice my sympathy toward a pedophile might just drive me postal. I don't care how bad their lives are; as far as I'm concerned, they shouldn't be alive.

-Melissa

[Toxicvixen]

A movie about a sex offender just doesn't seem like Hollywood Gold. I know I won't be going outta my way to see it. I would rather see the gory death of Jesus in Passion of the Christ over and over again before I watch a fuzzy feel good movie about sex offenders trying to get acceptance.

[CrystalTears]

I seriously doubt that The Woodsman is a feel good movie. Very far from it. I saw the trailer and it looks interesting, however I don't see myself being sympathetic towards the character, just like I didn't for the woman in Monsters either (which was an excellent movie, by the way).

[Edited on 4/16/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Toxicvixen]

Yeah Monster was a good movie, but I didn't feel bad for them either. Cept that they are normally very pretty women and MAN were they ugly in that movie! :lol:

[Gan]

I used to think that child molesters got some extra retribution/attention from other inmates in GP; however, with today's inmate classification system - most of the child sex offenders are usually grouped together. So its like one huge enabeling session.

Some say its a sickness, some say a disease. I say if a pedophile targets my child then I'm targeting him/her, I'll cure that sickness permanently. And I'll save the court/justice system and the taxpayers the cost of a trial.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by HarmNone
I've always said that when they capture one of these wastes of space, they should put them in a small room, tie them to a chair, and introduce them to a bunch of mothers with baseball bats and other interesting equipment. Then, walk out and shut the door. :devil:

I would suggest changing that to parents, but since angry mothers with bats cause less damage than angry fathers with bats ... I say sure ... simply because the fuck will suffer longer.

Fathers would be more than welcome to join in, as long as they could contain their strength to be sure the bastard suffered long and well. Aim is also critical. :D

[AnticorRifling]

I say we buckwheat them all with a shotgun.

[Snapp]

Originally posted by Edaarin
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/13/daughters.sold.ap/index.html

Just look at the URL.
Fucking sick. How could you do that to your own kids?

I can't get the page to load, which is probably a good thing. I hate this.

And it does seem that incidents of child abduction seem to be on the rise.

[Farquar]

When people hear of extreme and violent events, the easiest thing for most "normal" people to do is to label the perpetrators as inhuman, undeserving of life. These are, of course, nothing but empty words.

An important thing to realize is that violent criminals, serial killers, child abusers, suicide bombers, school shooters and such, are symptoms of a broader societal problem, not the problem themselves. No child is born evil; each child is a clean slate that inevitably absorbs and manifests the conditions in which it existed. Show a child love, and he will love. Show a child violence and neglect, however, and he will project the same on others.

The only way to prevent these criminals from even existing is first admitting that even the worst and ugliest parts of our society are still human. I realize that personal accountability and free will play a large role in what we become, but we have no control over much of what makes us who we are. The next step is to realize what made these unfortunate people do what they did. A quick look at our foster care system, domestic violence prevention system, income distribution, and educational system should make that fact painfully obvious. It’s sad that one has to jump through rigorous background checks and counseling to get a loan or buy a car, while a couple given a child faces virtually no such scrutiny.

[Brattt8525]

All killers and child molesters were not subjected to a horrible life so this means nothing. Even if some of them have been it does not mean we should embrace this poor tormented soul. In the case of the child molester the only thing they deserve is to have their member cut off and bleed to death.

[Farquar]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
All killers and child molesters were not subjected to a horrible life so this means nothing.

Interesting. So if there were 1000 killers, and 995 of them were abused but five were not, it is then acceptable to ignore the situation? Given the vast amount of literature evincing the effect of an unstable and/or violent upbringing on future behavior, I highly doubt the empirical validity of your statement.

Acknowledging a killer's humanity is much different than embracing them. Labeling people as "inhuman" or "monsters" allows people to focus on the trees only to lose sight of the forest. If society labels these people as inhuman, they become content at locking the one individual up, all while ignoring the very crucible that forged that individual in the first place.

Should a convicted killer be locked up, or, if the law allows, executed? Of course. Just dont think that the problem is gone because that one criminal is. But then again, that's what happens every time. We lock up "the one sicko" and go on our merry way. Meanwhile, the poor become poorer, budgets for welfare get slashed, and state sponsored foster programs lose funding, giving rise to a new generation of social deviants.

[Brattt8525]

Ok your reasoning is to "understand" why this happens to some people. That I can accept, study it how though? Prevent it how? We can understand that Rob the child molester was also molested as a child and thats why he is how he is, still how do we stop the intial abus? Sadly you can't. Deal with the sick bastards as they crawl out of the woodwork.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by HarmNone
I've always said that when they capture one of these wastes of space, they should put them in a small room, tie them to a chair, and introduce them to a bunch of mothers with baseball bats and other interesting equipment. Then, walk out and shut the door. :devil:

So when its a mother thats doing the abusing? [Just something to ponder, because that happens as well.]

Finis

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by FinisWolf

Originally posted by HarmNone
I've always said that when they capture one of these wastes of space, they should put them in a small room, tie them to a chair, and introduce them to a bunch of mothers with baseball bats and other interesting equipment. Then, walk out and shut the door. :devil:

So when its a mother thats doing the abusing? [Just something to ponder, because that happens as well.]

Finis

It wouldn't matter at all, Finis. That's why I never specified the gender of the person tied to the chair. :D

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah

Originally posted by HarmNone
I've always said that when they capture one of these wastes of space, they should put them in a small room, tie them to a chair, and introduce them to a bunch of mothers with baseball bats and other interesting equipment. Then, walk out and shut the door. :devil:

I would suggest changing that to parents, but since angry mothers with bats cause less damage than angry fathers with bats ... I say sure ... simply because the fuck will suffer longer.

I didn't think of that. Ok, proceed.

Finis

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
I can't get the page to load, which is probably a good thing. I hate this.

And it does seem that incidents of child abduction seem to be on the rise.

Actually the numbers per capita have remained damn near the same.

Finiswolf

~ Of course, you really have to wonder what the hell was up with our ancestors. At one point in our history, they thought that if a male child got an erection, they should fix it by stroking it until it relaxed. ~

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I used to think that child molesters got some extra retribution/attention from other inmates in GP; however, with today's inmate classification system - most of the child sex offenders are usually grouped together. So its like one huge enabeling session.

Some say its a sickness, some say a disease. I say if a pedophile targets my child then I'm targeting him/her, I'll cure that sickness permanently. And I'll save the court/justice system and the taxpayers the cost of a trial.

Not that I disagree with your line of thought..., but there would actually be mroe cost running you through the system, and you would do alot more time then a pedo ... thus even costing the taxpayers more money... SO, be sure to use em for shark bait..., always better to have a friend do it while you are ... somewhere else, then god-forbid, you return said same favor for someone else that underwent the same disturbing experience.

Finis

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
Ok your reasoning is to "understand" why this happens to some people. That I can accept, study it how though? Prevent it how? We can understand that Rob the child molester was also molested as a child and thats why he is how he is, still how do we stop the intial abus? Sadly you can't. Deal with the sick bastards as they crawl out of the woodwork.

Unfortunately, if you wait until that point, at least one child has been abused by that person. You are reacting to symptoms, rather than dealing with the cause.

How about, rather than waiting for someone to abuse, investing in services that target and deal with people that are deemed to be a higher risk of offending. Young people who show a predeliction to abuse/abusive behaviours. Try and rectify the flawed thinking that they have. Make sure there are enough effective services for shilcren who have been abused. Prevent the few that would go on to abuse as a result of their own abuse, from getting that far.

Rather than "KILL THEM IF THEY ABUSE CHILDREN!!!11111ONEONEELEVENONEHUNDRENANDONE" How about we try to make sure things dont get that far.

Personally, I dont believe we will ever stop child abuse, but we can get a damn sight closer than we are currently.

Note to clarify: I have no sympathy for anyone that abuses children, so please dont mistake my wish to deal with the cause as being sympathy in any way shape or form with the perpetrators.

[Brattt8525]

Good points Nien, I just do not see how we can monitor these people. Hell most of the time it's such a deeply hidden family secret that there is no way in hell to break into that until it's too late. I don't think an abuser wears a sign stating they are.

One of the girls I grew up with was sexually abused by her grandfather. She didn't act any different then the rest of us and when she finally told me I was amazed that she never sought help or confided in us. There were no signs, we didn't have a clue and when we went to her house it was your normal happy family.

Now if through some kind of research and detailed investigations of some sort we save one/stop one molester I guess that is the most important thing. As another poster said the thought of what they do does bring out a barbaric response from most people, which is too late.

[DeV]

The numbers for women who have been abused as children is staggering to say the least. Something like 6 or 7 out of every 10 women. They go on to raise children who could potentially become the victim, perp, or turn out completely normal. Nien makes some really good points. I think services need to be improved and more readily offered and available for women and mothers who've been abused as children and teenagers also.

[Gan]

That reminds me of that Tom Cruise movie where they arrested people BEFORE they comitted the crime.

I think the first amendment right to privacy (US laws) would be a huge barrier to having enough evidence to intervene in something as low down as child molestation tendencies BEFORE it actually happened. Innocent until proven guilty also comes to mind.

I have an addictive behavior to video games/games in general but if someone were to try to catalogue me into the same group as a child molester because of that behavior then I'd be quite pissed, especially if they went a step further and took my son away because I was catagorized that way.

I just dont see how science can target a sexual predator with 100% success until it actually happens.

It almost could boil down to the debate of nature v. nurture. I would like to think it was biological and that we could do gene therapy to those identified with the mutant gene responsible for sexual predator tendencies, but I dont know if that has been discovered yet. I tend to lean towards that sexual predator behavior is just that: a learned behavior... only, its so deeply rooted into the human behavior substructure that the only cure would be to remove all sexual urges/stimuli from that individual that was one... much like how alcoholics anonomyous teaches abstinence as a form of treatment... abstinence from all chemical substinces that is. I think sexual abstinence is also part of the 12 step program too but I'm not 100% sure.

[Edited on 4-17-2005 by Ganalon]

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I think the first amendment right to privacy
Originally posted by Thomas Jefferson
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. Doesn't appear to be any such thing.

As for science, if you could save 95 children from being molested at the cost of ruining 5 peoples' lives, would you do so? How about 90? 80? How accurate do you think the American legal system is in general?

Needless to say, the hindbrain reactions illustrated in this thread don't make me too confident in any kind of progress being made in this issue for a good long time. :(

[Gan]

oof, perhaps its not the first amendment... 14th??? I'll go and look it up instead of being lazy.

<As for science, if you could save 95 children from being molested at the cost of ruining 5 peoples' lives, would you do so? How about 90? 80? How accurate do you think the American legal system is in general?>

Are you willing to be one of the 5 person that theoretically would be ruined to save those 95 children? Wouldnt that in turn ruin you family's lives if you were wrongly accused?

Until there is a better method of identifying the molesters beforehand, we have no choice but to make sure that the ones that are caught dont get out to do it again.

Edited: Its the 4th amendment...

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[Edited on 4-17-2005 by Ganalon]

[Apotheosis]

Once sex offenders have been convicted with their first offense, they should lose all rights as a US citizen.

They deserve to be demonized.
No, they do not deserve a second chance.
And I don't give a shit about "extenuating circumstances"

I do think there should be more work done in defining proper law. But once the law is better defined, then punishment should be more severe. Finally, I believe more power should be given to law enforcement in order to prevent some of these situations before they happen.

[4a6c1]

This issue makes me sad. I cant even begin to understand what makes someone that sick in the head. I dont want to know. I really really dont want to know. If they hurt a child I say fry them on a giant fucking skillet slowly facedown.

We might have societal problems but I'm a fucking American and I want my quickfix damnit. Just get rid of them.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Ganalon
I used to think that child molesters got some extra retribution/attention from other inmates in GP; however, with today's inmate classification system - most of the child sex offenders are usually grouped together. So its like one huge enabeling session.

Some say its a sickness, some say a disease. I say if a pedophile targets my child then I'm targeting him/her, I'll cure that sickness permanently. And I'll save the court/justice system and the taxpayers the cost of a trial.


Ganalon, you're my hero.



Originally posted by Farquar
When people hear of extreme and violent events, the easiest thing for most "normal" people to do is to label the perpetrators as inhuman, undeserving of life. These are, of course, nothing but empty words.

An important thing to realize is that violent criminals, serial killers, child abusers, suicide bombers, school shooters and such, are symptoms of a broader societal problem, not the problem themselves. No child is born evil; each child is a clean slate that inevitably absorbs and manifests the conditions in which it existed. Show a child love, and he will love. Show a child violence and neglect, however, and he will project the same on others.

The only way to prevent these criminals from even existing is first admitting that even the worst and ugliest parts of our society are still human. I realize that personal accountability and free will play a large role in what we become, but we have no control over much of what makes us who we are. The next step is to realize what made these unfortunate people do what they did. A quick look at our foster care system, domestic violence prevention system, income distribution, and educational system should make that fact painfully obvious. It’s sad that one has to jump through rigorous background checks and counseling to get a loan or buy a car, while a couple given a child faces virtually no such scrutiny.

IMO Farquar, once they've comitted a first act of such, they're gone. Some studies label it a pathological NEED -- child molestation that is. IMO there's no rehabilitation. It's like a terminal cancer patient but worse because they possess the inherent ability to push the same screwed up mentality on an innocent child. It's a cycle of abuse, and the sad thing is, there's very little you can do.



Originally posted by Brattt8525
All killers and child molesters were not subjected to a horrible life so this means nothing. Even if some of them have been it does not mean we should embrace this poor tormented soul. In the case of the child molester the only thing they deserve is to have their member cut off and bleed to death.

Females molest children too. IMO a better solution is labotomy or a constant run on an electricity generating treadmill -- barring court dates.



Originally posted by Ganalon

I just dont see how science can target a sexual predator with 100% success until it actually happens.

It almost could boil down to the debate of nature v. nurture. I would like to think it was biological and that we could do gene therapy to those identified with the mutant gene responsible for sexual predator tendencies, but I dont know if that has been discovered yet. I tend to lean towards that sexual predator behavior is just that: a learned behavior... only, its so deeply rooted into the human behavior substructure that the only cure would be to remove all sexual urges/stimuli from that individual that was one... much like how alcoholics anonomyous teaches abstinence as a form of treatment... abstinence from all chemical substinces that is. I think sexual abstinence is also part of the 12 step program too but I'm not 100% sure.

[Edited on 4-17-2005 by Ganalon]

IMO it's not just nature vs. nurture; I think there is a third element. I just feel somehow biochemistry beyond your genetics has to be involved. One example, not very related, but it has to do with brain chemistry: They've defined that when you're in love, your brain produces substances like opiates -- and lots of them.

People examine the pasts of serial killers/molesters for an idea, but what if the past is only a contributing factor? What if there is a third factor? -Like a switch being left ON.

Since we've never studied a psychopath actually molesting, I'd be curious to see what changes, if any, occured in their brain at that moment. It can't be done obviously, but I think we could learn a lot from it. -What chemicals are produced from where, when, why, how they differ from a normal person. -What chemicals go dormant.

People often advocate gene therapy, but your genes are a whole state apart IMO from your chemical composition, which changes. So it makes me wonder, is it a cocktail of hormonal responses gone bad, past nuture, and genetics? -A bad chemical combination?

I think it's a lot deeper than the two symptoms you mention, though I'm positive they are included in the final answer.


-Melissa

[Apotheosis]

Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
This issue makes me sad. I cant even begin to understand what makes someone that sick in the head. I dont want to know. I really really dont want to know. If they hurt a child I say fry them on a giant fucking skillet slowly facedown.

We might have societal problems but I'm a fucking American and I want my quickfix damnit. Just get rid of them.

This comment, as well as your avatar has earned you a few extra points in my book. Keep up the good work!

[DeV]

I just wanted to add that if the sex offender happens to be a psychopath a.k.a. sociopath, there is no known treatment to combat the potential danger that accompanies that label. They are three times more likely to repeat their crime than the average joe criminal. Treatment does more harm than good because they end up either dominating the sessions or getting off on each others stories of sex abuse. If neither of those scenerios come into play they sometimes use the sessions to their advantage when trying to get parole by manipulating the psychologist as well as the parole board.

[Caiylania]

In addition to what others have said, another contributer is families who don't address the problem.

My best friend was molested/raped by her cousin and when she told her mother, she was called a liar. They never stopped the cousin from visiting so at age 9 and up she was his and her family did nothing.

She eventually ended up doing drugs and thinking she was worth shit. When she got pregnant at 16, that was the only thing that saved her. Because of the baby, she went clean and is determined nothing like that will ever happen to her daughter. Her brother is in jail for child porn and one count of molestation.


Families need to admit when shit is wrong with their kids and do something before it gets this far.

[Apotheosis]

Threads like this make me hate society

[Caiylania]

Agreed.

Beating offenders? Eh, c'mon, that's a bit barbaric. I think that when you take in consideration these level 3 sex offenders castration should really be considered. What these people have a sickness and this could be an excellent way to curb this (as well as some nice lengthy jail time)

- Arkans

[Gan]

We could have a nice choir section in the prisons... complete with bass, baritone, tenor, alto, and castrata. :lol:

Although its been tried on a voluntary basis, I dont see castration as a major deterrent. But I do like the idea as a punishment none the less.

[Apotheosis]

Castration doesn't prevent them from doing other things, right?

[Caiylania]

Yah, but what man want's to have his balls cut off?

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Caiylania
Yah, but what man want's to have his balls cut off?

Sociopaths/psychopaths often claim they can't stop themselves. In short, I'm not sure how much it would matter if they didn't want their balls cut off. Once the balls were cut off, that kind of mindset seems to indicate they would find a new way to torture people.

-Melissa

[Nieninque]

:yeahthat:

Castration wouldnt stop child abuse at all. It may change the form, but it would still happen.

Two solutions:

Better identification and treatment for people that are higher risk of offending against children.

Better education for children to know what should and shouldnt happen, and what to do if something is happening (and a kick up for the arse for any parent who doesnt believe their child when they tell them something has happened)

[Caiylania]

I guess I should clarify, I wasn't being serious. Though I'm sure the fact is true, I realize that is not the solution.

[DeV]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Sociopaths/psychopaths often claim they can't stop themselves. Melissa Very true that they claim this and often times they can't stop themselves, but that doesn't excuse their actions because they are aware that they're breaking the rules, but simply live by their own. They just don't care and will lie, cheat, manipulate, and even blame their victims for the negative consequences of their actions <-- very common.

It leads me to chime in with Nien's solutions to add that society needs to stop being so fearful at labeling children who exhibit a large majority of the characteristics associated with psycopathy, as "potential" psychopaths. Something needs to be done for children at early ages to try and offset the behaviors from fully developing. Not all sexual predators were abused as children.

[Slider]

Untill a way is found to identify sexual predators before they act, it remains a moot point. You can wish all you want, but society will still have to deal with the aftermath of a pedophiles actions.

The fact that 98% of pedophiles go back to targetting children after release from prison should be a strong indication that treatment programs do not work. And one thing that has been totally overlooked in all this, is the fact that treatment will only work if the offendor WANTS to be treated/cured. Most criminals that go through treatment are doing so to impress a parole board, not because they want to get better, but because they want to get out of prison.

I also find it a powerfull argument that convicted murderers, rapists, and other assorted hardened criminals think that pedophiles are scum, that they are going to serve harder time than ANY other criminal in our system, and that basically, they do not deserve to breath any more. If you doubt this, just look at what they did to Dahmer...they beat the shit out of him, shoved a broomstick as far up his ass as they could manage, and snapped it off inside of him...then left him to bleed to death. I would say that was a pretty clear indication of the way cons feel about short-eyes.

All that being said, I would (reluctantly) have to dis-agree with the whole "torture them to death" idea. Not because I do not agree with it, because trust me, I do. But because this would be vengeance, NOT justice. Give them a fair trial, give them every right that they have under our criminal justice system, give them every appeal they are entitled to, and IF they are found guilty...put a bullet in the back of their head. No torture, no pain for pains sake, but JUSTICE. Both for the victim, and for society as a whole. And to protect the next child that they will target when released. Hard choice? Yes...but it is the only one that will accomplish this.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Slider

All that being said, I would (reluctantly) have to dis-agree with the whole "torture them to death" idea. Not because I do not agree with it, because trust me, I do. But because this would be vengeance, NOT justice. Give them a fair trial, give them every right that they have under our criminal justice system, give them every appeal they are entitled to, and IF they are found guilty...put a bullet in the back of their head. No torture, no pain for pains sake, but JUSTICE. Both for the victim, and for society as a whole. And to protect the next child that they will target when released. Hard choice? Yes...but it is the only one that will accomplish this.

I find this a convincing argument, but honestly, I still lean with the thrice-killed celtic justice system for pedophiles. :shrug: It just makes sense to me. ...unless they can provide some kind of scientific use as test subjects, imo they are of no use at all.

-Melissa

[Slider]

did you perchance miss the part where I said that you put a bullet in their head? :smug:

I agree that they are no use to society, and that they should be killed. I just disagree with torture as the means of execution. Once our justice system becomes about vengeance instead of justice...we, society as a whole, lose. We become the very thing we are fighting against.