Sneaking, Stalking, And Invisibility Changes

[Fallen]

*********
IOI: 4

Crossposting here:

SNEAKing around will no longer shake stalkers or disband your group unless you're hidden (in which case, you shouldn't have anyone stalking you anyway).

There're some unrelated changes to hiding that are waiting for deployment that are keeping me from deploying the change so that a failed HIDE attempt doesn't drop your stalkers. The change will be made when those other changes go live.

Casting Invisibility (916) will now disband your group and shake any stalkers.

- Ildran
*********


To summerize, movement sneak will no longer shake stalkers. Going invisible will. Yay for invisibility Amulets!

rub blo Am
720

[Asha]

Yey . .
I found out I couldn't shake a stalker last night.
The rogue was all smirk smirk while I marched , quaked returned to find nothing.
I marched, stalked, skipped, trudged then returned and e-waved to hear nothing but a snicker from the shadows.

So I rubbed my mica amu, quaked and snickered from the shadows.
Go Invis Amulet!!!!
:heart:

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Fallen
*********
To summerize, movement sneak will no longer shake stalkers. Going invisible will. Yay for invisibility Amulets!

rub blo Am
720

I still do not understand why they continue to sell these to anyone and everyone. Back in the day you could use an invisi amulet and actually go rescue someone in some pretty dangerous places (they sort of had a purpose other than just taking a closed list spell and giving it to the masses). Lothwyn's player whined stating that it was an integral part of playing his SORCERER (a spell on the closed wizard list). At least you have to have MIU now, but that doesn't mean jack for most spellcasters.

Well, at least I got to bitch about it again, even if it won't be changing. (Save your herb, raise dead and other comparisons - this is my rant. :D )

[Fallen]

Eh, they cost me 65k a pop. Thats pretty damn expensive.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
Eh, they cost me 65k a pop. Thats pretty damn expensive.

65K is expensive now? For 40 charges of a level 16 spell?

And can't wizards recharge these.. so the only real outlay is the initial 65K and then a diamond/emerald every now and then to a wizard?

Seems cheap as hell to me.. for a spell that renders you completely invisible to all PCs.

[Fallen]

I don't think they are 40 off the shelf, though I could be wrong.

[Asha]

Love em . . Just love em.
The only guard against rogues for me.
Plus they usually guarantee my life against anothers in CvC.

[Fallen]

Seriously. A rogue slips into hiding, he won't be missing with that Cutthroat or whatever else he can pull from hiding.

[StrayRogue]

Er yes he can. He has a 5% chance of missing every time. Which is a damn sight worse than the 1% chance to miss you have against warding a like level rogue.

[Edited on 15-4-05 by StrayRogue]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
I don't think they are 40 off the shelf, though I could be wrong.

I thought they used to be.. prior to them taking them away and reintroducing them. I never had to use them after that.. with the need for MIU ranks, Falgrin simply found a different way to go invisible.

:P

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
Seriously. A rogue slips into hiding, he won't be missing with that Cutthroat or whatever else he can pull from hiding.

And any sort of movement by the rogue opens himself up to detection.. where as an invisible PC can walk freely from room to room without being detected.

[Snapp]

Aw.. I always thought it was funny that you could stay stalking or joined to someone while they were invisible. Both moving around town undetected.

[AnticorRifling]

I don't see this as affecting me but I don't see it as a bad change either.

Bottom line; I continue to kick ass.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Snapp
Aw.. I always thought it was funny that you could stay stalking or joined to someone while they were invisible. Both moving around town undetected.

I used to love how people THOUGHT you couldn't stalk them once they went invisible.

Imagine their surprise when Falgrin rips their right hand off as soon as they pop out of invisibility. HOW THE HELL DID HE FIND ME SO QUICK!!! :?:

[Asha]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by Snapp
Aw.. I always thought it was funny that you could stay stalking or joined to someone while they were invisible. Both moving around town undetected.

I used to love how people THOUGHT you couldn't stalk them once they went invisible.

Imagine their surprise when Falgrin rips their right hand off as soon as they pop out of invisibility. HOW THE HELL DID HE FIND ME SO QUICK!!! :?:

Becouse he's tiny and he hid in my pantz!!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Drayal
Becouse he's tiny and he hid in my pantz!!

I had heard a rumor that there is plenty of spare room there.

[Asha]

Damn damn damn :mad:

[Divinity]

Hmm, this kinda sucks for one of my characters, and very wahoo for the other. Although, this does explain why someone keeps going invisi alot.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Fallen
Eh, they cost me 65k a pop. Thats pretty damn expensive.

They used to be about 45k in the Alchemists and with trading you could get them down to about 30k. Then they burned down the alchemist shop and we thought that they had removed the spell for good from general public access, then they showed up in the EN and then back in the alchemist shop. I realize that they upped the price, it's still a 16th level spell on a closed list that enables you to do what PB said.

I just don't understand the reasoning for allowing them to stay in the game, the same as (even though I like pure potions) my cleric can get them pretty darn cheap and how nice is it to have a potion that you can LK with (think that still works), uncurse, bless and also get AS from? I think that they served a purpose way back when, and they were a damn sight more expensive - used to be about 13k for 4 sips and now I can get one for under 3k. :shrug:

[Praefection]

You can get the bloodjewel amulets in Solhaven for about 55k, give or take a little.

[StrayRogue]

They're still for sale because it would be just as easy to imbed it.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
They're still for sale because it would be just as easy to imbed it.

I personally don't believe that spell should be available to anyone to use... but that's me.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
They're still for sale because it would be just as easy to imbed it.

In order to imbed it to 40 charges you have to have an item that will accept 640 mana - most accept 40 and of course ranger rods can go up to a whopping 80 give or take? So you can imbed it now for about 2 charges. Let folks go through the hassle of getting it imbedded into something.

[Fallen]

Pure potions? Blue crystals, White Crystals?

Fucking no MIU Food spells?

What's next? An empath complaining because herbs act like their spells?

I have a deal for you. Remove all items requiring no MIU to use, and you can have Invisibility off the market.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
Pure potions? Blue crystals, White Crystals?

Fucking no MIU Food spells?

What's next? An empath complaining because herbs act like their spells?

I have a deal for you. Remove all items requiring no MIU to use, and you can have Invisibility off the market.

Actually.. if I remember my empath bitching correctly.. they complain that the herbs act BETTER than their spells.

And I imagine if one of the high level sorcerer spells were available to anyone that wants them, you would be at the front of the bitching line.

[Edited on 4-15-05 by Parkbandit]

[Fallen]

Hahaaha. Thanks for the laugh, Falgrin. Empaths are funny.

[Divinity]

You can imbed 720. There's yours bitching.

Line forms to the left, Evarin.

[Fallen]

And I imagine if one of the high level sorcerer spells were available to anyone that wants them, you would be at the front of the bitching line. >>

Aww, you just had to add an edit to take a shot at Sorcerers. I appreciate your personal attention. If we had a spell as kickass as invisibility, they might consider it.

[Fallen]

You can imbed 720. There's yours bitching.

Line forms to the left, Evarin. >>

I was going to mention it, but you have to know the way Falgrin works. He will point out that

1. It is difficult to get it imbedded (Yeah right)
2. You have to have MIU to use it. (Valid)

However, it is still the most powerful (offensive) spell in the game that only requires a bit of MIU to use.

[Edited on 4-15-2005 by Fallen]

[Merjinia]

Originally posted by Fallen
Hahaaha. Thanks for the laugh, Falgrin. Empaths are funny.


Bah I say! I agree, Herbs should not be able to work better than an Empath's spells. Empaths are not funny, Evarin.

~M~

[Asha]

Everyone should stop crying and swap characters.
:yes:

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Fallen
iHowever, it is still the most powerful (offensive) spell in the game that only requires a bit of MIU to use.

[Edited on 4-15-2005 by Fallen]

Shall I save this for the next Sorc whine fest where folks are crying bitterly over cone?

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Fallen
I have a deal for you. Remove all items requiring no MIU to use, and you can have Invisibility off the market.

What does one have to do with the other? In case you weren't aware, none of the items used MIU way back when, and of those that do now that was the design intent stated by Warden. Commonly found treasure items would not require MIU.

[Fallen]

And Invisibility amulets have always been around. If you still haven't learned to cope with that, you probably never will. Bitch all you want, nothing is going to change.

Damned whiney wizzies.

[Gan]

I remember buying glass amulets in Vaalor for around 42-43k... Might check, if thats still the going rate then its probably the cheapest around that I'm hearing.

And yes, I'm a huge fan of pure potions and their clones iridescent potions (Illistim) and grey crystals (Vaalor)... its a handy way to add a little umph to your ooof.

As far as blue crystals go, I've been hunting the tower with a 40 rub blue crystal in one hand, and my blade in the other... Most everything dies in one swing except for the older goleras who seem immune to being critted. I like that strategy so much I'm thinking of dropping shield alltogether and learning something useful like more MIU/Dodging/Stealing...

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Fallen
And Invisibility amulets have always been around. If you still haven't learned to cope with that, you probably never will. Bitch all you want, nothing is going to change.

Damned whiney wizzies.

So you agree that your analogy was lacking. It's a HUGE leap to assume that I am not coping. :lol: I don't like it, I will never like it, and fortunately the boards here allow for folks to have opinions (even if we have to endure the little snide remarks that seems to roll from your mouth.)

But here's a little tip for you - once upon a time familiar was imbeddable - familiar is no longer imbeddable - so saying that things will never change is kind of like anyone assuming that since you play a character who doesn't like halflings that your character would scoff at the suggestion of getting merchant services from a halfling...so I guess you should never say never. :smug:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You are all right, mages are the best class of all.

[Fallen]

So you agree that your analogy was lacking. It's a HUGE leap to assume that I am not coping. I don't like it, I will never like it, and fortunately the boards here allow for folks to have opinions (even if we have to endure the little snide remarks that seems to roll from your mouth.)

But here's a little tip for you - once upon a time familiar was imbeddable - familiar is no longer imbeddable - so saying that things will never change is kind of like anyone assuming that since you play a character who doesn't like halflings that your character would scoff at the suggestion of getting merchant services from a halfling...so I guess you should never say never. >>

Laughs

I don't know what crawled up your ass, spawned, then died from the stench..but you sure need to take a step back and take a deep breath.

You are the one that went on some tired rant about how Invisibility doesn't belong in an amulet. What do you want, sympathy? Like you said, people have contrary opinions, deal with it.

As for your last comment..I don't know if that was some sort of shot at me due to getting a tattoo from one of the furry little freaks. If you weren't there, and are just digging as frantically as you can to insult me, I actually roleplayed out that entire situation. I would bother to defend myself further, but you're simply not worth the effort.

To summarize? STFU, no one gives a shit about poor poor wizzards and their Inviso amulet gripes.


[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Fallen]

[StrayRogue]

Invisibility will remain as a readily obtainable item. Whine about whatever dumbfuck reasoning you want, it won't change a thing. Most wizards I know don't care.

[DeV]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Invisibility will remain as a readily obtainable item. Whine about whatever dumbfuck reasoning you want, it won't change a thing. Most wizards I know don't care. Agreed. As a Sorcerer, I never go anywhere without one and kudos on the changes. I'm pretty sure they will always be readily available. One can hope.

[Edited on 4-16-2005 by DeV]

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Fallen
Laughs

I don't know what crawled up your ass, spawned, then died from the stench..but you sure need to take a step back and take a deep breath.

You are the one that went on some tired rant about how Invisibility doesn't belong in an amulet. What do you want, sympathy? Like you said, people have contrary opinions, deal with it.

As for your last comment..I don't know if that was some sort of shot at me due to getting a tattoo from one of the furry little freaks. If you weren't there, and are just digging as frantically as you can to insult me, I actually roleplayed out that entire situation. I would bother to defend myself further, but you're simply not worth the effort.

To summarize? STFU, no one gives a shit about poor poor wizzards and their Inviso amulet gripes.


[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Fallen]

So then why are you bothering to respond? It's always funny when folks say that they don't care but then rip off some big explanation. If you don't care then don't respond. Can I be any more plain? If you like them, fine, telling me to stop discussing why I don't like them is ridiculous but expected from you.

How would I know about the halfling thing if I hadn't been there?

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Invisibility will remain as a readily obtainable item. Whine about whatever dumbfuck reasoning you want, it won't change a thing. Most wizards I know don't care.

And as I told Fallen, I'll complain all I wish. It's getting onerous for people (especially folks) who like to tit for tat with others over the silliest of things to tell folks to stop whining. It's my rant, and I'll have it.

:D

[Fallen]

If you feel the need to beat this issue into the dirt, you're right. No one has the power to stop you. Enjoy wasting your time.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Fallen
If you feel the need to beat this issue into the dirt, you're right. No one has the power to stop you. Enjoy wasting your time.

:lol: You just can't stop yourself can you?

Perhaps you can run back over to Klaive's domain and entertain yourself there for the rest of the evening.

[Fallen]

Ah, she draws the trump card, the SR.

You are pathetic. You use tired cliches in your arguments because you have nothing stand on other than your worthless opinion in your original post.

Lets take a look at what I said: "As for your last comment..I don't know if that was some sort of shot at me due to getting a tattoo from one of the furry little freaks. If you weren't there, and are just digging as frantically as you can to insult me, I actually roleplayed out that entire situation. I would bother to defend myself further, but you're simply not worth the effort. "

If somehow you got out of that paragraph that me responding in this thread is not worth the effort, then you are incapable of comprehending the text placed upon your screen. I was refering to a specific incident..which you seem to be harping on...why?

You are trying to run this thread into the ground with text because basically throughout the whole thing people have disagreed with you, repeatedly.

You lost, you suck, move on. No amount of whining or posturing is going to make your original point any more valid. Stop trying to save face, no one is buying it.

[FinisWolf]

:offtopic:

[Fallen]

Sure, I'll post a bit on topic. Rose Lady does a good enough job making herself look foolish without my help.

The issue of Stalking and hiding is an odd one. The skill of Stalking is pretty worthless from a non CvC application in my eyes other than for the ability of a rogue (or whomever) to be joined to a group from the shadows to hunt. If it was a separate skill, I doubt many rogues at all would bother to 1x in it.

Invisibility should shake stalkers, always. It doesn't make sense otherwise. As for sneaking movements, if someone hides, then sneaks into the other room, it should be a skill check as to whether the rogue continues to stalk.

As for hiding and Stalking updates, I believe it was stated by GMs that it is on their To-Do list, but is not a priority. The question is, how useful would it be for players to be able to stalk creatures? Without some sort of mechanical benefit from the process, such as a "Fear" based penalty to the creature being stalked, I doubt it would be little more than a novelty.

[Artha]

The question is, how useful would it be for players to be able to stalk creatures? Without some sort of mechanical benefit from the process, such as a "Fear" based penalty to the creature being stalked, I doubt it would be little more than a novelty.
You'd be uneffected by any AoE spells the critter cast, which would be pretty useful in some areas, and if it left before you could ambush, you wouldn't have stalk RT. Minor things, but worthwhile.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
You can imbed 720. There's yours bitching.

Line forms to the left, Evarin. >>

I was going to mention it, but you have to know the way Falgrin works. He will point out that

1. It is difficult to get it imbedded (Yeah right)
2. You have to have MIU to use it. (Valid)

However, it is still the most powerful (offensive) spell in the game that only requires a bit of MIU to use.

[Edited on 4-15-2005 by Fallen]

You SO don't know how Falgrin works... because he would have posted something like
1. You need MIU to use it.
2. You can't just go and purchase a 40 charge item with 720 in it.
3. Since it's a level 20 sorcerer spell, it would be difficult to recharge it (If you could do #2)

You fail at knowing Falgrin :P

[Fallen]

Yet somehow, I remain undisappointed (not a word).

You used my bullet format along with the parentheses at the end of one of the bullets. Its like getting a 9 out of 10. Its still a great score!

[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Fallen]

[TheRoseLady]

I've come to the realization that Fallen actually might be a decent roleplayer, definitely not anywhere near as good as Falgrin but to paraphrase another good friend:

"I actually like him in game though, just think he's a complete moron when he posts."

Falgrin > Evarin

Fallen - in case you haven't realized, the point of a thread is not to "win" or to decide your opinion based on the majority posts. You revert back to junior high school with the "you suck". I said from the BEGINNING if you bothered to read the post, that it was a hot button for me and an area I feel strongly about and have for years. So, why don't you polish up on your skills in the RL and at least pose a reasonable rebuttal, if you are incapable of allowing folks to have their opinions without resorting to childish labels, then by all means continue.

I have a feeling that continuing this will do nothing but make you look sillier. I think that I've said my piece, now you can have the last word which is obviously what you seem to need. :spaz:

[Edited on 4-16-2005 by TheRoseLady]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
I've come to the realization that Fallen actually might be a decent roleplayer, definitely not anywhere near as good as Falgrin but to paraphrase another good friend:

"I actually like him in game though, just think he's a complete moron when he posts."

Falgrin > Evarin


Talk about posting the obvious.

:smug:

:kiss:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Hey, I said that!

Just one last thing, anyone besides me think that no matter what TRL posts, Fallen will post behind her, because he HAS to get the last word in?

[Fallen]

Again, Rose lady, you have long since abandoned your original argument, because you know you its just a groundless "They shouldn't have it 'cuzz its mine" whine. You got your panties in a bunch over an issue you yourself admitted to being some sort of hang up of your own.

I am glad you decided to drag in extra help, because you are perfectly incapable of proving your point without it. Have the last word? You are the one who repeatedly went off topic to insult me.

Frankly? I don't give a shit what any of you think of my posting style. All I have to do is look back on this thread and see that you're little rant was summarily dismissed as just that.

You can front load your insults all you wish by saying "You will so look stupid if you post again." again...and AGAIN. It still wont stop me from pointing out how baseless your arguments are.

Here look, its easy. You guys will look SOOO pathetic if you respond to this post in any way.

Have a nice day

[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Fallen]

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage


Just one last thing, anyone besides me think that no matter what TRL posts, Fallen will post behind her, because he HAS to get the last word in?

pwned.

[Fallen]

Ah, yes. TRL should just add that little zinger to her sig so that no one can ever respond to any of the idiotic statements she makes.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Fallen
.

Here look, its easy. You guys will look SOOO pathetic if you respond to this post in any way.

Have a nice day



Double Pwned.

[Fallen]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
I've come to the realization that Fallen actually might be a decent roleplayer...

Talk about posting the obvious. >>-- Parkbandit

Thanks, Falgrin.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
Ah, yes. TRL should just add that little zinger to her sig so that no one can ever respond to any of the idiotic statements she makes.

Fallen,

The only one looking like an idiot here is you. She has stated her opinion about invisibility. Nothing more. You are the one that said you don't give a shit about her opinion.. yet continue to respond in order to gain the last word.

Big fucking deal.. she has the opinion about invisibility being harder to come by for everyone and not a spell that is in a trinket that everyone can buy. I might not hold the same conviction as her.. but I completely understand where she is coming. And even if I didn't agree.. what again is the big deal?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
Originally posted by TheRoseLady
I've come to the realization that Fallen actually might be a decent roleplayer...

Talk about posting the obvious. >>-- Parkbandit

Thanks, Falgrin.

I don't think I've ever said you were not a good roleplayer. I don't believe I had the opportunity to roleplay along side you on many occasions, but I've never said you were bad.

[Fallen]

I believe I may have seen you once or twice in game. I stay away from the Landing if at all possible.

[Fallen]

Fallen,

The only one looking like an idiot here is you. She has stated her opinion about invisibility. Nothing more. You are the one that said you don't give a shit about her opinion.. yet continue to respond in order to gain the last word.

Big fucking deal.. she has the opinion about invisibility being harder to come by for everyone and not a spell that is in a trinket that everyone can buy. I might not hold the same conviction as her.. but I completely understand where she is coming. And even if I didn't agree.. what again is the big deal? >>

And what part of my character having an alteration done by a halfling has to do with her Invisibility Amulet gripe?

Come on, Falgrin.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Fallen
Fallen,

The only one looking like an idiot here is you. She has stated her opinion about invisibility. Nothing more. You are the one that said you don't give a shit about her opinion.. yet continue to respond in order to gain the last word.

Big fucking deal.. she has the opinion about invisibility being harder to come by for everyone and not a spell that is in a trinket that everyone can buy. I might not hold the same conviction as her.. but I completely understand where she is coming. And even if I didn't agree.. what again is the big deal? >>

And what part of my character having an alteration done by a halfling has to do with her Invisibility Amulet gripe?

Come on, Falgrin.

I think she was pointing out what she percieved as you being a hypocrit... hating halflings the way your character does, yet you would allow one to tattoo your character.

Falgrin would sooner kill an elf than allow them to touch his dwarven made gear. I don't think it would be possible for me to come up with a valid roleplaying reason to allow an elf merchant to touch his stuff.

Since I was not there, I only have what is posted here to go on.. so I'll have to make some assumptions on my part.

[Fallen]

And I responded that I had no need to defend my character's roleplay from her petty misconceptions. She then took that statement and twisted it into a whole "Look, he is trying to claim he is too good to converse with me" crap.

I see the issue as dead. She has a problem with Invisiblity amulets. Most people don't. Beyond that, any further arguing is pointless.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Fallen
If you feel the need to beat this issue into the dirt, you're right. No one has the power to stop you. Enjoy wasting your time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



You just can't stop yourself can you?

Perhaps you can run back over to Klaive's domain and entertain yourself there for the rest of the evening. >> -- TRL


Who is trying to get the last word in?

[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Fallen]

[StrayRogue]

Then with all respect, if you feel you cannot state your opinion any more, stop posting.

[Fallen]

Shrugs

I have spoken my peace. I am done with the thread.

[TheRoseLady]

:clap: