Boy suspened for wearing make-up

[Back]

Thats what you get for being emo! (http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050414%2F0009642077.htm&sc=1110) Or is it. Come to find out he says wearing make-up symbolizes the wiccan faith he shares with his mother.

Where the hell is the father in all this? Are all emos secretly wiccan?

This kid obviously smokes crack all day long, but seriously, what's the problem?

- Arkans

[Divinity]

Heh, they do have rules like that here, but they were never followed. If that was the case, we would have lost at least 20 kids because they had goth-type makeup.

[Jazuela]

What the fuck does eye makeup and lipstick have to do with wicca? Most wiccans I know (and admittedly it's probably only a couple dozen) don't wear any makeup at all. They prefer the au natural style.

I'd say his side of the story is a crock of shit. Well, unless his mother's particular brand of wicca worships Maybelline.

[Asha]

Individuality makes people nervous and causes ripples in the water.

You can't condone children showing signs of this.
They have to be expelled before others think it's a good thing.

[CrystalTears]

I can kinda understand the distracting part. When I went to school we were allowed to wear makeup and I knew some guys who wore lipstick and eyeliner. The difference was that once it was TOO much makeup or was made obvious, we were asked to tone it down and remove some. :shrug:

I love the argument "if they can do it so can I". I remember my senior year when a group of guys came to school in skirts. They were asked to go home and change. Hey, if they want to wear what the opposite sex wears, be my guest.

To play Devil's Advocate though, you I do see the schools perspective. It can be distratcting to other students, be a danger to the student wearing make-up, and be inappropriate in a professional enviroment (which schools try to make themselves out to be)

- Arkans

[Asha]

Nevermind.
They'll just bring guns next time.

[Asha]

Originally posted by Drayal
Nevermind.
They'll just bring guns next time.

Edited to add::
It's okay though , they'll just be sent home again.

[CrystalTears]

So we should let kids do whatever they want for fear of them showing up with guns and going postal? That is the problem with society today.

[FinisWolf]

In a nutshell...

:whocares:


DrayalIndividuality makes people nervous and causes ripples in the water.

You can't condone children showing signs of this.
They have to be expelled before others think it's a good thing.

Right on target! They are not hurting anything or ayone. Pick the battles with children wisely. You (governing factions) do NOT have to be control freaks!

Finis

[Divinity]

The unfortunate truth I suppose?

I don't see how a kid not being able to wear make-up is going to lead to guns though. However, if it's for the attention.. I don't know. It's too early for me to argue/debate things like this.

[Asha]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
So we should let kids do whatever they want for fear of them showing up with guns and going postal? That is the problem with society today.

If there was a solution , I'm totally sure we'd have put it into use by now.
I don't think young people should be allowed to bend rules or even break them.
I believe the rules should be so that they wouldn't want to.
There is obviously a point to which they should not be able to push past (as in wearing a stupid amount of makeup). But at least they wouldn't be able to say we didn't meet them half way.
AND the child wearing the makeup wouldn't be so singled out, as the rest would probably do so for the laugh.

[Showal]

He probably wanted the attention. I remember a kid in my 7th grade class wore a dress to school, obviously for attention. My teacher picked up on it immediately and called him out on it. The teacher said "sean, be honest with me. Are you wearing that dress for attention or do you feel this is something in you that you need to express and you feel this dress is truly you? I'll let you wear it if it's not for attention." The kid said it was because it's how he felt and he needed to wear it to express himself. He never wore the dress again though.

[Asha]

Right on, Showal.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Drayal
I don't think young people should be allowed to bend rules or even break them.


No they shouldn't. However there are parents that don't give a damn about rules and get offended that their blessed child be punished for something and fights the parents and teachers trying to abide by their rules. So it's not just the kids the staff has to fight, it's the parents as well, unfortunately.

[Asha]

I do totally agree with you CT.
Sadly parents, teachers and young people will never see eye to eye.
We have to try to see past the make-up and radical behaviour to try and understand them, instead of simply expelling / dismissing them.
Just as they themselves must try to see beyond the apparently meaningless ideals to the rules, which were always put there to ensure their safetly and comfort to learn.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

School isn't about being an individual. It's about mass education and what's deemed right for children by the administration. I'm not all about conformity, but do you think the guy dressed in drag wearing make-up isn't a distraction from the other children? What if a girl wants to wear her bra and panties outside her clothes? Is that ok?

You have to draw a line somewhere. We may not agree on where that line is, but I hope that we all agree there has to be some structure to a learning environment.

Now college students... should be able to and can do pretty much what they want. They pay for it, they are adults, they are responsible for their actions and the repercussions of those actions, good or bad. Freedom of expression is great, freedom of expression at the expense of others is not. A little bit of structure in <12 grade schools is not a bad thing.

Anyway, I'm obviously conservative about it, but when I have kids I hope they can express themselves in a way that will not cause problems at school. If they do, I'll spank them in a non-childabuse manner ;) and life goes on.

I guess the bottom line of my rambling is I think children need structure.

[Killer Kitten]

I remember once wearing jeans to school and being told I had to go home to change. I wore jeans constantly, so of course I found this rather surprising. Turns out they had passed out a notice the week before on a day I was out sick, saying girls would no longer be permitted to wear pants that zipped in the front. I never did figure out the reason for that one, but I had a hell of a time finding any side zipping pants that I liked. I got around it by taking all the zippers out of my jeans and putting snaps in instead. Only practical use I ever got out of Home Ec.

[Back]

Originally posted by Killer Kitten
I remember once wearing jeans to school and being told I had to go home to change. I wore jeans constantly, so of course I found this rather surprising. Turns out they had passed out a notice the week before on a day I was out sick, saying girls would no longer be permitted to wear pants that zipped in the front. I never did figure out the reason for that one, but I had a hell of a time finding any side zipping pants that I liked. I got around it by taking all the zippers out of my jeans and putting snaps in instead. Only practical use I ever got out of Home Ec.

Heh, yeah, makes you wonder how rules get started, or laws... like some law in some state about not having intercourse with wild fowl...

Anyway! I agree with SHM. Believe me, I’m all about freedom of speech, but seriously... this kid needs a little more guidence. Then again, he may be the next Salvador Dali. (He wore pork-chop epaulettes)

[Divinity]

Well, even if some people don't find it offensive or subtracting from the pupil's attention, someone will find and take it that way. I just wonder how far the line is.

Boundaries are one thing, but when you're growing up, you're trying to find yourself. We go through stages, some more extreme than others. However, using religion as an excuse for your childs attention expressing ways is a totally different issue to discuss.

Edited because people shouldn't post without drinking coffee first.

[Edited on 4-14-2005 by Divinity]

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Killer Kitten
I remember once wearing jeans to school and being told I had to go home to change. I wore jeans constantly, so of course I found this rather surprising. Turns out they had passed out a notice the week before on a day I was out sick, saying girls would no longer be permitted to wear pants that zipped in the front. I never did figure out the reason for that one, but I had a hell of a time finding any side zipping pants that I liked. I got around it by taking all the zippers out of my jeans and putting snaps in instead. Only practical use I ever got out of Home Ec.

Well, you know those high school girls...

They can't keep their pants zipped! :rolleyes:

[DeV]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
School isn't about being an individual. It's about mass education and what's deemed right for children by the administration. I'm not all about conformity, but do you think the guy dressed in drag wearing make-up isn't a distraction from the other children? What if a girl wants to wear her bra and panties outside her clothes? Is that ok?

You have to draw a line somewhere. We may not agree on where that line is, but I hope that we all agree there has to be some structure to a learning environment.

Now college students... should be able to and can do pretty much what they want. They pay for it, they are adults, they are responsible for their actions and the repercussions of those actions, good or bad. Freedom of expression is great, freedom of expression at the expense of others is not. A little bit of structure in <12 grade schools is not a bad thing.

Anyway, I'm obviously conservative about it, but when I have kids I hope they can express themselves in a way that will not cause problems at school. If they do, I'll spank them in a non-childabuse manner ;) and life goes on.

I guess the bottom line of my rambling is I think children need structure. :clap:

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Originally posted by Backlash
[quote]

Anyway! I agree with SHM. Believe me, I’m all about freedom of speech, but seriously... this kid needs a little more guidence. Then again, he may be the next Salvador Dali. (He wore pork-chop epaulettes)

The world is coming to an end! Next thing we'll find out that Backlash was a Young Republican!

There was this guy who went to my highschool and wore drag and all that crazy shit. Then someone hit him in the back of the head with a brick and he didn't go to my school anymore .

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage

Originally posted by Backlash
[quote]

Anyway! I agree with SHM. Believe me, I’m all about freedom of speech, but seriously... this kid needs a little more guidence. Then again, he may be the next Salvador Dali. (He wore pork-chop epaulettes)

The world is coming to an end! Next thing we'll find out that Backlash was a Young Republican!

He's a closet Republican.

He'll deny it of course.

I bet he voted for Bush too, just won't admit it.

[4a6c1]

My boyfriend in high school wore a priest-like dress and makeup. So I :heart: the silly little gothic kids in black. They will do it and then grow up and realize its not practical unless its Saturday on the strip.

On the other hand wearing makeup is not a wiccan tradition and thats fucking stupid to say so.



Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
You have to draw a line somewhere. We may not agree on where that line is, but I hope that we all agree there has to be some structure to a learning environment.


I agree with you except, children at that age ask so many questions of the world around them and with the changing tides of society the questions are going to just getting more illicit. A smart system will always accomidate those it was built to help. I'm not suggesting no limits I'm only suggesting broader ones.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Suppa Hobbit Mage
School isn't about being an individual. It's about mass education and what's deemed right for children by the administration. I'm not all about conformity, but do you think the guy dressed in drag wearing make-up isn't a distraction from the other children? What if a girl wants to wear her bra and panties outside her clothes? Is that ok?

You have to draw a line somewhere. We may not agree on where that line is, but I hope that we all agree there has to be some structure to a learning environment.

Now college students... should be able to and can do pretty much what they want. They pay for it, they are adults, they are responsible for their actions and the repercussions of those actions, good or bad. Freedom of expression is great, freedom of expression at the expense of others is not. A little bit of structure in <12 grade schools is not a bad thing.

Anyway, I'm obviously conservative about it, but when I have kids I hope they can express themselves in a way that will not cause problems at school. If they do, I'll spank them in a non-childabuse manner ;) and life goes on.

I guess the bottom line of my rambling is I think children need structure.

Dress-codes (uniforms) are a good thing.

Individuality stays at home... School is for Education (the social interaction can happen just as well outside of school or during break hours such as lunch).

[Showal]

<<There was this guy who went to my highschool and wore drag and all that crazy shit. Then someone hit him in the back of the head with a brick and he didn't go to my school anymore .>> '

Is it sick I found that amusing?

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by RangerD1
There was this guy who went to my highschool and wore drag and all that crazy shit. Then someone hit him in the back of the head with a brick and he didn't go to my school anymore .

I was going to say the kid just needs to get beat up instead of suspended then I read Ranger's post and realized it couldn't be put better than that. LOL

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by Showal
<<There was this guy who went to my highschool and wore drag and all that crazy shit. Then someone hit him in the back of the head with a brick and he didn't go to my school anymore .>> '

Is it sick I found that amusing?

No... it's realistic in the real world sense.

[HarmNone]

What I see as problematic is that the kid, supposedly, has been wearing makeup at school for two years. Unless the rules have recently been changed, why has the school waited this long to broach the subject with him?

I get a feeling there's more to this story than has been told. :shrug:

[DeV]

Originally posted by RangerD1
There was this guy who went to my highschool and wore drag and all that crazy shit.So not surprising... if this is the same highschool you went to around the time my ex did. Just from the stories I've heard about some of the more flamboyant guys who attended over those 4 years... :no:

Individuality should definitely have its limitations in a school setting especially when it interfers with a teachers ability to teach without distraction.

[Warriorbird]

I think mockery and ass beatings is a good enough punishment. Alternately, he needs to make a band like Green Day and get all the women to justify his eye-shadow.

If he had any self-confidence, he probably wouldn't be in trouble.

[Divinity]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
I think mockery and ass beatings is a good enough punishment. Alternately, he needs to make a band like Green Day and get all the women to justify his eye-shadow.

If he had any self-confidence, he probably wouldn't be in trouble.

Hey, the lead singer of Green Day is not bad looking in appearance. That, and they have good music, in my opinion.

Most of the guys in my HS didn't even know the difference between blush and eyeshadow. Huge diff between pop star looks and these kids running around in school with underwear on their heads.

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by RangerD1
There was this guy who went to my highschool and wore drag and all that crazy shit.So not surprising... if this is the same highschool you went to around the time my ex did. Just from the stories I've heard about some of the more flamboyant guys who attended over those 4 years... :no:

Individuality should definitely have its limitations in a school setting especially when it interfers with a teachers ability to teach without distraction.

I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but you know what high school I went to? The sad part is that I actually went to one of the decenter high schools on the South Side of Chicago, I mean we actually had a few white kids.

[DeV]

Originally posted by RangerD1
I'm sure I've mentioned it before, but you know what high school I went to? The sad part is that I actually went to one of the decenter high schools on the South Side of Chicago, I mean we actually had a few white kids. The one in or around (forgive my inaccuracy) Hyde Park if I recall. Such a fitting story though...

[Apathy]

All this fuss over a little make-up. What happened to the high school I remember?

Giant gathering places to distort little minds into losing all creativity coupled with many a budding young pharmacist classmate who would be happy to share his trade with you.

[Asha]

Originally posted by Apathy
All this fuss over a little make-up. What happened to the high school I remember?

Giant gathering places to distort little minds into losing all creativity coupled with many a budding young pharmacist classmate who would be happy to share his trade with you.

Fuck!
You went to Outwood Grange Comprehensive too?
How come we didn't meet?

[xtc]

Originally posted by RangerD1
There was this guy who went to my highschool and wore drag and all that crazy shit. Then someone hit him in the back of the head with a brick and he didn't go to my school anymore .

The old Ranger is back and again we agree.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by HarmNone
What I see as problematic is that the kid, supposedly, has been wearing makeup at school for two years. Unless the rules have recently been changed, why has the school waited this long to broach the subject with him?Perhaps they have a demerit point system.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Originally posted by HarmNone
What I see as problematic is that the kid, supposedly, has been wearing makeup at school for two years. Unless the rules have recently been changed, why has the school waited this long to broach the subject with him?Perhaps they have a demerit point system.

If their demerit system takes two freaking years to determine that a problem exists, it's in serious need of a re-write. :lol:

[Tsa`ah]

Just another example of having uniforms or shutting the hell up.

A guy wearing make-up is less of a distraction than a girl dressing like a total slut, even less of a distraction than a girl wearing painted on jeans and big panockers.

Frankly it's just to the point where it is ridiculous. Instating a uniform code will make kids express themselves as individuals through mentality rather than expressing themselves with clothes everyone else in their circle is wearing.

The folks suspending the kid should have their nuts/ovaries removed to prevent continued and future pollution of the genetic pool.

[Snapp]

I agree completely Tsa'ah. The girls in hooker outfits are far worse than eye shadow and lipstick on a guy.

I also think there's a lot more to this story than is being told. He wears make-up everyday for two years and then BAM he's suspended? Doesn't make sense.

The old Ranger is back and again we agree.

^

There was a new me? Sweet. I hope I had more money this time.

[Hulkein]

Trust me, girls can be pretty distracting in uniforms.

I miss Catholic school girl skirts. I sure learned a lot in that circular seating patterned Spanish class sophomore year!

[drigore]

Originally posted by Atlanteax

Dress-codes (uniforms) are a good thing.



I belive this was already tried, in Germany, many years ago. Yes, there should be some sort of limit, but in turn, there should have been a limit of the punishment. Detention everyday, more work, gym in a dress and no underwear, whatever, but giving him more days off and more attention is all it's doing at the moment.

[Artha]

There is nothing, and I mean nothing, wrong with (decent looking) girls dressing like whores.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Frankly it's just to the point where it is ridiculous. Instating a uniform code will make kids express themselves as individuals through mentality rather than expressing themselves with clothes everyone else in their circle is wearing.>>

If I had to wear a uniform at school, I would express myself with a fist to anyone's face who got in my way because I would be in a constant state of anger. On days where I have another reason to be unhappy, they'd get an extra serving of my backpack to the teeth.

I can't stand the thought of uniforms or the people that suggest them.

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
If I had to wear a uniform at school, I would express myself with a fist to anyone's face who got in my way because I would be in a constant state of anger.

Sounds like a pre-existing rage issue rather than an issue concerning uniforms.


On days where I have another reason to be unhappy, they'd get an extra serving of my backpack to the teeth.

I'm willing to bet the first time would be suspension, the second would involve legal consequences, and the third would involve jail/juvie time. The rest of your outbursts would have to be in the company of you new roomie ... Bubba ... who wants to dance with you.


I can't stand the thought of uniforms or the people that suggest them.

Just so you don't feel left out; there are plenty who can't stand the thought of you, uniform or no.

[Bobmuhthol]

Wow, what an awesome response that had nothing to do with the topic whatsoever.

[Tsa`ah]

About as much as yours did ... care to refrain from pissing on anymore threads?

[Bobmuhthol]

Except my post pertained very much to the topic and yours had no purpose other than to target me with the bullshit you love to throw out to people you don't care for. :'(

[Doyle Hargraves]

Originally posted by Drayal
[quote]Originally posted by CrystalTears
So we should let kids do whatever they want for fear of them showing up with guns and going postal? That is the problem with society today.


If there was a solution , I'm totally sure we'd have put it into use by now.

Here's your solution:

http://maddox.xmission.com/beat.html

[Hulkein]

I didn't mind uniforms at all.

[ElanthianSiren]

Uniforms are dumb.

If the kid doesn't belong in high school, send him/her to college. In my freshman year of highschool, they switched me to a college program at the local community college after expulsion. I got straight A's where I had C's in highschool.

The difference is highschool is a mandate. You *have* to go by law. If you don't go, don't behave yourself, someone is there running after/picking up after you. It's like daycare for teenagers.

In college, few of my teachers scored for attendance. You either knew the material or didn't, come test time. IMO, actually learning is what school is about, not what you look like, otherwise we wouldn't allow any kids who "look different" and that includes kids with disabilities or autistic children, who often have great minds.

-Melissa

[Skirmisher]

Yep, the uniforms in schools get a two thumbs up from me also.

I didn't have them in high school, but up till then I did and In my experience they did simplify things. I can not begin to count all the comments that passed among the kids about who was wearing what or how so and so looked.

I think that children should be free to think and debate subjetcs in school, so do not think I am wanting to create automatons or something.

I just think using uniforms eleminates much potential drama and actually frees them to focus more on school and less on needless distractions.

Originally posted by Drayal
Individuality makes people nervous and causes ripples in the water.

You can't condone children showing signs of this.
They have to be expelled before others think it's a good thing.
Its not individuality if 100 other people are doing the exact same thing. Go to any high school its nothing new. You will find 50 of the same people who think they are being different, or an individual, yet they all shop at Hot Topic.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
actually learning is what school is about, not what you look likeThen why should it matter if people have to wear uniforms or not? If wearing uniforms does in fact have potential positives, it would seem given the quoted statement that you would have to be a staunch proponent of uniforms.

[ElanthianSiren]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Then why should it matter if people have to wear uniforms or not? If wearing uniforms does in fact have potential positives, it would seem given the quoted statement that you would have to be a staunch proponent of uniforms.

-Simply because you can swing that argument either way. I never had problems in college due to what I looked like. Ironically, I had a few problems in highschool before transferring to college, where I dressed the same. ie: I don't think where you choose to shop is the problem with our scholastic system.

Additionally, uniform systems only insulate students from the real world further. When you turn 18 and go out into the REAL world, people generally don't tell you what you can and cannot wear. You find this out by either screwing up or bothering to read your employment handbook.

That said, however, employment handbooks for jobs I have held contained only safety information. For example, we were advised not to wear necklaces, as we worked with mentally ill adolescents. Further, we were advised not to wear sandals or open-toed shoes for the same reason. Nowhere did it say, "Don't dye your hair halloween black and wear garish green nail polish." These types of mistakes are common sense things that individuals generally learn not to do in youth.

As our teenage years cycle into adulthood, in my estimation, uniforms would likely produce adults who rely extensively on hand holding. Further, uniforms, while a convenient solution, were tried (and failed) in other countries. The real solution IMO is real academia that challenges, (not bores students and forces them to rely on memorization), and openmindedness.

As RangerD pointed out with his brick example, kids will learn what is and isn't aesthetically acceptable in society from their peers. They should pursue scholastics through their learning institutions -- again, imo.

-Melissa

[CrystalTears]

You talk as though teens who have to go to school in uniforms spend the entire day and week in them as well. They get home from school, change into their own clothes, and join their friends. Nothing is being inhibited, they can still be themselves, express themselves, and it's all kept outside of the school. If someone has a fight over looking like a weirdo, it's happening on their own time, not their learning time.

Uniforms in school teach kids that you need to dress appropriately while in school and then later on at work. When you work you have to abide by the company's dress policy, and other places tell you to wear their clothes.

How you dress is not the only aspect of expressing individuality. They are expressed in several other ways when that option is taken away, and I've yet to run into someone who went to school that required uniforms that couldn't express their individuality, or couldn't dress appropriately. An adult that needs hand holding about how to dress had more problems going on than school uniforms.

[Apotheosis]

All of you assume that people's behavior changes after HS.
I could be wrong, but so far, it seems to me that most people are just older versions of who they were in HS.

[Brattt8525]

Sadly the brick to the head is just one example of what other students will do, sad but true. Kids will pick on other kids who look/act different. I read a story years ago about some kids who beat the shit out of another student just to get his expensive shoes. No one should have to deal with that. Uniforms would solve alot of issues.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
I read a story years ago about some kids who beat the shit out of another student just to get his expensive shoes. A kid in Chicago was killed last month for his shoes so it is still happening with much less frequency.

Originally posted by DeV

Originally posted by Brattt8525
I read a story years ago about some kids who beat the shit out of another student just to get his expensive shoes. A kid in Chicago was killed last month for his shoes so it is still happening with much less frequency.

Shit like that happens every day in chicago

[DeV]

Originally posted by RangerD1
Shit like that happens every day in chicago True. The rate at which death results has dropped significantly since the 90s, but it is most def still happening.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by ElanthianSiren
Additionally, uniform systems only insulate students from the real world further. When you turn 18 and go out into the REAL world, people generally don't tell you what you can and cannot wear.What I wore in high school is much, much closer to what I wore at work than how I look now.
As our teenage years cycle into adulthood, in my estimation, uniforms would likely produce adults who rely extensively on hand holding.You should go to a Jesuit high school reunion some time.

[ElanthianSiren]

Sorry, not a Jesuit.

I just don't see uniforms as the answer.

-Melissa

[Hulkein]

Uniforms sure insulated me.

When I got to College I walked to class and had a nervous breakdown at the site of all the different colored clothes people were wearing!!!!!

Honestly, they don't insulate anything. People who go to school tend to do other things in public where there is no dress code.... like, say, go to the store? Or dances, parties?

All it was for me was 4 years I didn't have to look for something new to wear while half asleep at 7 in the morning.

[Edited on 4-16-2005 by Hulkein]

Heh Uniforms don't mean shit. I got into shit at my school and my buddy who went to Chicago Vocational got into alot worse shit in his school, and they had uniforms. It just meant it was harder to tell who was on your side in a brawl.