Official : PSM: Phase 3 Proposal - Feedback Requested

[Avaia]

Hey all,

The Phase 3 design of the Player System Manager (PSM) update is ready for player feedback. This is the final of three phases which started back in September of 2020. This proposal includes a square review, maneuver review, new player systems, and more.

Disclaimer: This is just a design proposal. Any or all changes referenced in this document can and are likely to change as the mechanics are implemented and tested. Do not make any drastic decisions (such as training choices or purchases at events) for your characters based upon what is listed in this proposal. You will not be compensated or refunded for any adjustments made to this design after the fact.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eSyzok0aMhP8AuP7TufyMymHmqOm0tRoSP0Ragh3p88

- Naijin

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Combat,%20Magic,%20and%20Character%20Mechanics/Developer's%20Corner/thread/1934978?get_newest=true

[gilchristr]

Hard read. Even the title "player system manager" sounds like gobldigook...

[gilchristr]

Ok pushed through the tough read. It is obviously a good idea to provide AeO options for some maneuvers. So glad they finally got to that.

The weapon skills seem like they will end up being annoying in practice. The range ideas also seem like they will be annoying in practice. Both of these ideas seem to be motivated in reducing the user of mstrike and ambush - they say right in there. It seems like someone had the idea that ambush and mstrike were never "intended" to be used as often as they are, and it needs to be "fixed" Not a good motivation for a drastic design change.

[Ardwen]

Read the gobbledygook, Warriors lose 2 slots of weapon spec, get to share armor support and gain 2 points of WPS a week, so in about 40 years we'd be able to make our own claid level weapons? Or sell the 2 points I guess? No opinion on the critical counter level 50 feat as it seems to lack enough info to judge. Though hey 2 points of PS is vastly better then what rogues are getting on the list hah!

[Skeletor]

Soo.. we're now playing a completely new game, like not even exagerrating.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/3oEjHXTznp23vHn48E/giphy.gif

Oh Naijin, I think with these changes it has totally altered the values of everyone's weapons and armor. But hey, whatever makes God Emperor Naijin happy.

[caelric]

Yes, this drastically changes a whole hell of a lot.

[Malvadere]

Ok pushed through the tough read. It is obviously a good idea to provide AeO options for some maneuvers. So glad they finally got to that.

The weapon skills seem like they will end up being annoying in practice. The range ideas also seem like they will be annoying in practice. Both of these ideas seem to be motivated in reducing the user of mstrike and ambush - they say right in there. It seems like someone had the idea that ambush and mstrike were never "intended" to be used as often as they are, and it needs to be "fixed" Not a good motivation for a drastic design change.

Exactly. Why would I ever shoot a bunch of bolts in the air for 5sec RT, when I can just multifire dual hand crossbows at everything and retain the properties of my crossbows in the same amount of time? Hope its awesome...

[Orthin]

Definitely a lot of neat ideas, I have a 41 rogue taking up space and a 20 warrior that I piddle with and I see a lot of cool things to mess around with and try.

But none of these are my mains so I wonder how big an impact it will have to high level folks (who most likely make up 80-90% of the folks impacted directly)

[Orthin]

oh and with Warcries going to stamina I wonder what kind of impact that will be

[Vishnell]

Holy hell. I might actually roll a square! These look amazing and dynamic.

However, might as well rename the game Gemstone V.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

[StrayRogue]

Wtf, and how do I get, feats?

[Orthin]

Wtf, and how do I get, feats?

Looks like you just have to reach the level needed for the feat

[GSIV Rogue]

Cool changes, makes squares and CMAN users a lot more multi-faceted. Posted on officials to allow flying leap to include brawling. Thanks for sharing this here!

[Alashir]

Wow that's a lot of info. Definitely some positive and dynamic changes for squares. If only I wasn't in love with my wizard...

[Amerek]

I mean, are these changes going to make me "aim l eye/ fire" or "amb head" any less? Probably not. Warriors get weekly WPS? This is absolutely fucking hilarious considering they cap ranger resists (which are awful anyway) at 20% or something ridiculous.

[Archigeek]

oh and with Warcries going to stamina I wonder what kind of impact that will be

I think it will mean squares who don't currently use all their stamina berzerking will use warcries a lot more now. Currently, a few failures at holler means you need to wait a while to try again, and the formula for voice us unknown. If it's all stamina based, it will be clear what you can and can't do. Personally I thought the voice thing makes more sense than the idea that berzerking uses the same juice as shouting.

[Taernath]

Looks like we'll be balancing cooldowns/stamina for major AOE and disables. Apply bleed > apply root > regular attack > finisher. Then feats or skills that add %health or stamina. Pretty wild. We're World of Gemstonecraft now.

[gilchristr]

Is the designer behind these tier up of status conditions (which taernath described well) the same designer behind the UAC system?

[Skeletor]

Is the designer behind these tier up of status conditions (which taernath described well) the same designer behind the UAC system?

It's by a power hungry hobbit named Naijin.

But aeriously though, every project of mine is now frozen to get a final read on this shitshow.

Just my wild thoerizing from glancing at this proposal is that THW is going to take a bit of a hit in popularity relative to the other 6 weapon styles. Not sure about the rest, UAC seems most promising though.

[bunnymustdie]

Is the designer behind these tier up of status conditions (which taernath described well) the same designer behind the UAC system?

Probably not given how much time has passed between the release of these two systems. Also, GM Naijin (who's behind these maneuver updates) was not on staff back when UAC was released.

[Archigeek]

It seems a little complicated. We'll see how it goes. I don't quite get all the hate on 2 points of WPS. Seems like a decent fit, and it's obviously something everyone wants. I'd like to know if it's going to have any additional limitations beyond the standard system.

[Ardwen]

The 2 points is one part of it, the formula on what we can add it to is going to be the real issue. Do the math 2 points a week is months or years for real useful effect.

[Vorpodu]

The 2 points is one part of it, the formula on what we can add it to is going to be the real issue. Do the math 2 points a week is months or years for real useful effect.

Yes, if you only use 1 warrior....

[Malvadere]

Yes, if you only use 1 warrior....

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/21/39/ec21390dc76c3199e3114abb1db6f318.jpg

[Skeletor]

Yes, if you only use 1 warrior....

Pretty sure there would be a limiter. Probably X warrior crit weighting per weapon per window or whatever.

[Vorpodu]

Pretty sure there would be a limiter. Probably X warrior crit weighting per weapon per window or whatever.

you are probably right but it would make no sense. the only limiter to sorcerers/wizards/monks is the energy per week and potion pours. you could literally take a weapon from +0 to +50 in a day if you had enough wizards/potions/silver.

[Skeletor]

you are probably right but it would make no sense. the only limiter to sorcerers/wizards/monks is the energy per week and potion pours. you could literally take a weapon from +0 to +50 in a day if you had enough wizards/potions/silver.

Weighting though, precious precious weighting.

Also, I bet the "materials" to weight something is going to be prohibitive with whetstone grinder costing a whopping 77266362837379 bloodscrip for "one grind" or some shit.

[Stanley Burrell]

Ugh, hard read. For someone with their eyeballs open, please explain how this will affect my Warrior and Paladin.

[mgoddess]

Ugh, hard read. For someone with their eyeballs open, please explain how this will affect my Warrior and Paladin.

Warrior'll get better... by a long shot, I think.

Paladin'll gain a couple of interesting things (weapon tricks, a couple of cman's, some cmans & smans changing up a bit).

ETA: changes won't make me want to roll up a warrior, but will definitely get me to play my mid-range rogue more.

[Teveriel]

I already have two warriors, and these changes have me considering a third to turn into a berserking crossbowman.

[Alashir]

I already have two warriors, and these changes have me considering a third to turn into a berserking crossbowman.

My God right? Someone post some logs asap

[Skeletor]

Warriors changing is an understatement.

'Warrior' profession just re-morted to 'Conqueror King Saiyan Goku Grand lord'

Kroderine Soul becomes much more viable after these changes, there's so much meta to calculate it'll take us decades to sort through all his shit. There's actually a way now to not be dependent on your DS any longer and completely rely on EBP and this pseudo-engagement system.

I predict a monu-fucking-mental buff to polearm using Paladins. Like untouchable killing machines more than what Paladins are now.

Bonding with ranged with berserk, I mean how the fuck does that work? but hey Naijin plays warriors so it must make sense!

I main exclusively Warriors, Monks, and Paladins...

My reaction to all this:
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/723/336/6c6.gif

[Stanley Burrell]

Thanks dudes and ladies.

[Malvadere]

Meanwhile, rogues get a dog turd covered in glitter. Let's take a useless skill (hiding) and make literally everything revolve around it. While I'm ranting...what's the deal with these ranged weapon skills? Why would I ever use barrage or volley when I can just mstrike fire (focused and unfocused) and kill stuff faster, while still getting my weapon flares? Did they forget about mstrike fire?

[Taernath]

Meanwhile, rogues get a dog turd covered in glitter. Let's take a useless skill (hiding) and make literally everything revolve around it. While I'm ranting...what's the deal with these ranged weapon skills? Why would I ever use barrage or volley when I can just mstrike fire (focused and unfocused) and kill stuff faster, while still getting my weapon flares? Did they forget about mstrike fire?

I'm wondering how the engagement system will work with ranged... and in general I guess. It looks like I can just rshot or root everything and be unattackable in melee while I fire my longbow every 3 seconds. Does melee have to spend time 'advancing' now?

[caelric]

I'm wondering how the engagement system will work with ranged... and in general I guess. It looks like I can just rshot or root everything and be unattackable in melee while I fire my longbow every 3 seconds. Does melee have to spend time 'advancing' now?

If it goes by the DragonRealms model, it will suck. You'll spend time advancing to get to combat, and if you want to run away, you'll spend time retreating. It would accomplish the goal of slowing down combat that someone apparently wants, though. I've taken a couple of characters to 150th level in DR, and honestly, the combat system sucks.

[Realk]

If it goes by the DragonRealms model, it will suck. You'll spend time advancing to get to combat, and if you want to run away, you'll spend time retreating. It would accomplish the goal of slowing down combat that someone apparently wants, though. I've taken a couple of characters to 150th level in DR, and honestly, the combat system sucks.


Is that their cap? is it a hard cap or something?

[Realk]

If it goes by the DragonRealms model, it will suck. You'll spend time advancing to get to combat, and if you want to run away, you'll spend time retreating. It would accomplish the goal of slowing down combat that someone apparently wants, though. I've taken a couple of characters to 150th level in DR, and honestly, the combat system sucks.


Is that their cap? is it a hard cap or something?

[caelric]

Is that their cap? is it a hard cap or something?

150 is the first cap. After that level, you can go up to 200th level, but the requirements are much higher, and you don't gain new spells or new stat points, or really anything. 151 to 200 is really for ePeen measuring. 200 is the actual level cap.

However, levels in DR mean less, as you can gain skills without leveling. Leveling only gives you more stat points and more spells. But increasing skills also gives you stat points. Also, AFAIK, levels have no effect on any rolls, combat, or anything else. It's all skill based.

[gilchristr]

Man, there is that shiny and new aspect (I guess that's the dog turd covered in glitter that the other post referred to).

But at what point does that hankering for the next shiny turd turn into stifling chore of having to fixskill your character, yet again, in after a weekend going through "reims and reims" of discord chat logs. Are we there yet, or does that glitter-caked feces still look appealing?

There comes a time, when the sparkled-shit loses its luster... The new PSM-p3 update (player-system-manager phase 3 update) ... is too long, with too many nuggets!

[Shaps]

Have to admit the changes for Warriors will increase their uniqueness. Specifically the revamp of the CMAN/Armor ability costs, in conjunction with abilities learned from actual levelling/skills instead of spending points on them.

Hope those aspects go live - would allow some much needed individualization and variety with the remaining CMAN options.

[Skeletor]

Man, there is that shiny and new aspect (I guess that's the dog turd covered in glitter that the other post referred to).

But at what point does that hankering for the next shiny turd turn into stifling chore of having to fixskill your character, yet again, in after a weekend going through "reims and reims" of discord chat logs. Are we there yet, or does that glitter-caked feces still look appealing?

There comes a time, when the sparkled-shit loses its luster... The new PSM-p3 update (player-system-manager phase 3 update) ... is too long, with too many nuggets!

They got to keep re-inventing the wheel after a few years to keep us on that wheel.

Think about how many projects this will kill, how many weapons will cease to "be the best". It's a nightmare.

[Riven]

Rogues getting the shaft again.

3% better chance to hit an aimed location?

Warriors get a WPS system, so they can weight weapons and pad armor, but only enough so in 50 weeks they can add 2 cer?

and what will rogues get? the ability to lighten armor, weapons, and clothing, and maybe if we are lucky, deepen bags too?

adding a ranged system, so casters are more powerful, and maybe also archers, snipers, etc?

But melee is weaker.


The whole update starts by saying many Cman abilities are considered mandatory, so people are using all their points on the mandatory builds...

So now those abilities are built into the classes, with archetypes... Will there be new Cman to replace the ones you are building into the classes?

The more I read these updates the more disillusioned I feel about it.

Warriors should be durable, front line fighters.

Rogues should be fragile, high damage


This game doesnt have PVP, so its not like you need to worry about pvp balance.

[Orthin]

they need to make a poison making system similar to vanilla WOW. Foraging required and part of the RG. Can make poisons that do direct added damage (flares) or ones that do DOT (also flares), make poisons that cause spell casting delays and chance to fail a cast (based on poison making skill). maybe sprinkle in a couple others, can be added to weapons or shields and doesn't impact ensorcell or any other things you can do to weapons/shields. Lasts for 1*poison making ranks. Poisons can have multiple applications and can be sold, anyone can add them.

I would bring my Rogue back in a heart beat to mess with a poison making system.

The rest of the Rogue changes are whelming at best...

[Teveriel]

So now those abilities are built into the classes, with archetypes... Will there be new Cman to replace the ones you are building into the classes?

I think the idea is that it frees up points to spend on other cmans. There are a lot of them, and there still WILL be a lot of them to choose from after this is implemented.

[Gelston]

Really makes me think about returning on my warrior, but then I consider the time investment required and go.... naaaaaaaaah.

[Shaps]

they need to make a poison making system similar to vanilla WOW. Foraging required and part of the RG. Can make poisons that do direct added damage (flares) or ones that do DOT (also flares), make poisons that cause spell casting delays and chance to fail a cast (based on poison making skill). maybe sprinkle in a couple others, can be added to weapons or shields and doesn't impact ensorcell or any other things you can do to weapons/shields. Lasts for 1*poison making ranks. Poisons can have multiple applications and can be sold, anyone can add them.

I would bring my Rogue back in a heart beat to mess with a poison making system.

The rest of the Rogue changes are whelming at best...

I really like this idea for rogues.

[Maerit]

Some of the monk stuff looks kinda interesting. Being able to use KS & Martial Mastery w/ 20 ranks in MnM spells is particularly nice.

[Gizmo]

Has there been any time frame as to when this may be applied?

[Vorpodu]

Meanwhile, rogues get a dog turd covered in glitter. Let's take a useless skill (hiding) and make literally everything revolve around it. While I'm ranting...what's the deal with these ranged weapon skills? Why would I ever use barrage or volley when I can just mstrike fire (focused and unfocused) and kill stuff faster, while still getting my weapon flares? Did they forget about mstrike fire?

the way i picture a volley like skill is like a set and forget. Stay in defensive/guarded, shoot the volley, when it starts raining down you go offensive and start firing. Seems like an AoE crowd control mechanic for ranged.

[Skeletor]

Twohanded weapons looks like are going to get hammered. I'm actually pretty pissed since I moved all my guys to mauls and greatswords.

On the otherhand, the pilum and shield build looks like a new meta. I predict 'shield returners' will be a thing in the future. I also think a possible build with two shields in both hands might actually fly if everything gets implemented according to this doc.

[drauz]

Twohanded weapons looks like are going to get hammered. I'm actually pretty pissed since I moved all my guys to mauls and greatswords.

On the otherhand, the pilum and shield build looks like a new meta. I predict 'shield returners' will be a thing in the future. I also think a possible build with two shields in both hands might actually fly if everything gets implemented according to this doc.

THWs look fucking awesome, wtf you smoking?

[Shaps]

THWs look fucking awesome, wtf you smoking?

Agreed, it looked like THWs got a buff? Am I missing something in the documentation?

[Skeletor]

Well let's hope it's a big buff.

I was referring to THW's vs. what the other weapon classes are getting seems a tad lukewarm.

Ranged and UAC are both kicking it, DoT arrows? yes, please. Thrown shields? shields keep getting the loving. Polearms with their disengage function that no other weapon class has.

[Vorpodu]

Twohanded weapons looks like are going to get hammered. I'm actually pretty pissed since I moved all my guys to mauls and greatswords.

On the otherhand, the pilum and shield build looks like a new meta. I predict 'shield returners' will be a thing in the future. I also think a possible build with two shields in both hands might actually fly if everything gets implemented according to this doc.

looked to me like OHB got the biggest buff. Its weapon skills look the most impactful and Confused appears to be the best debuff out of the bunch. Cudgel meta inbound.

[2Sage]

Could they possibly implement all this? No, right?

[mgoddess]

Hey all,

The Phase 3 design of the Player System Manager (PSM) update is ready for player feedback. This is the final of three phases which started back in September of 2020. This proposal includes a square review, maneuver review, new player systems, and more.

Disclaimer: This is just a design proposal. Any or all changes referenced in this document can and are likely to change as the mechanics are implemented and tested. Do not make any drastic decisions (such as training choices or purchases at events) for your characters based upon what is listed in this proposal. You will not be compensated or refunded for any adjustments made to this design after the fact.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eSyzok0aMhP8AuP7TufyMymHmqOm0tRoSP0Ragh3p88

- Naijin

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Combat,%20Magic,%20and%20Character%20Mechanics/Developer's%20Corner/thread/1934978?get_newest=true

PSM3 is now live in all instances. Yay?
http://forums.play.net/forums/19/325/2285/view/4914

[Methais]

A bunch of my FLAGs got reset when the game crashed after they rolled this out.

Those cunts.

[time4fun]

looked to me like OHB got the biggest buff. Its weapon skills look the most impactful and Confused appears to be the best debuff out of the bunch. Cudgel meta inbound.

Eh. Confused basically requires you to decide to keep the creature alive knowing it still has a 1/3 chance of turning on you. I haven't found it that handy so far tbh. If I can get a high enough endroll to succeed with this, I can likely one shot you anyway.

I've found Pummel to be very handy though

[drumpel]

I haven't even played the game in 2 weeks after some fucking random open void a room over (such a bullshit spell) sent a piece of debris through my eye and skull as I just got into my hunting area. Just walking through to start my hunt and instantly dead and from something not even in the same room as I was in. Fucking worthless game mechanics. My wizard is still laying dead in the same spot from 2 weeks prior - I was so pissed I didn't even depart and use death sting salve. Fucking waste my time to spell up, run to my hunting grounds just to instantly die so I can sit around waiting for my stats to slowly come back up and try to hunt again......

I don't even want to play with the PSM3 in the mix.....

Guess I'm still bitter. Maybe that'll change after I get back from vacation next week.....

[Tgo01]

I haven't even played the game in 2 weeks after some fucking random open void a room over (such a bullshit spell) sent a piece of debris through my eye and skull as I just got into my hunting area. Just walking through to start my hunt and instantly dead and from something not even in the same room as I was in. Fucking worthless game mechanics. My wizard is still laying dead in the same spot from 2 weeks prior - I was so pissed I didn't even depart and use death sting salve. Fucking waste my time to spell up, run to my hunting grounds just to instantly die so I can sit around waiting for my stats to slowly come back up and try to hunt again......

I don't even want to play with the PSM3 in the mix.....

Guess I'm still bitter. Maybe that'll change after I get back from vacation next week.....

Voids are the work of the devil.

[Methais]

I haven't even played the game in 2 weeks after some fucking random open void a room over (such a bullshit spell) sent a piece of debris through my eye and skull as I just got into my hunting area. Just walking through to start my hunt and instantly dead and from something not even in the same room as I was in. Fucking worthless game mechanics. My wizard is still laying dead in the same spot from 2 weeks prior - I was so pissed I didn't even depart and use death sting salve. Fucking waste my time to spell up, run to my hunting grounds just to instantly die so I can sit around waiting for my stats to slowly come back up and try to hunt again......

I don't even want to play with the PSM3 in the mix.....

Guess I'm still bitter. Maybe that'll change after I get back from vacation next week.....

720 is player friendly now IIRC, in case by "some random" you meant another player.

[drumpel]

720 is player friendly now IIRC, in case by "some random" you meant another player.

I couldn't tell you, all I know is I entered a room with nothing else in it and then was instantly dead from an open void spell cast in an adjacent room. I said "fuck that bullshit open void fucking spell. Fuck you game mechanics, eat a dick." and i logged off. I haven't logged back in for 2 weeks....

I'm still pissed about it. If I'm in a room and the creature casts the spell at me and I die, so be it. It's my fault (generally) if I can't subdue a target before it gets a chance to cast. If I'm walking around and no indication of any kind is made and I'm instantly dead for a shitty game mechanic spell cast in a different room, fuck that.

[Orthin]

I couldn't tell you, all I know is I entered a room with nothing else in it and then was instantly dead from an open void spell cast in an adjacent room. I said "fuck that bullshit open void fucking spell. Fuck you game mechanics, eat a dick." and i logged off. I haven't logged back in for 2 weeks....

I'm still pissed about it. If I'm in a room and the creature casts the spell at me and I die, so be it. It's my fault (generally) if I can't subdue a target before it gets a chance to cast. If I'm walking around and no indication of any kind is made and I'm instantly dead for a shitty game mechanic spell cast in a different room, fuck that.

Yeah open Implode critters are obnoxious and so are the Voids in the rift though I never had a fatal issue with voids in the rift but I could’ve been lucky

[Asha]

Does anyone know what rangers now do instead of smastery? Cos that was the only cman I ever cared about

[Dendum]

Does anyone know what rangers now do instead of smastery? Cos that was the only cman I ever cared about

Dumped mine into defense.

[jval]

Should have access to toughness now, unless they changed it again.

[Tgo01]

Has anyone substantially changed the way they hunt yet because of these changes?

At first I was excited for these changes but the more I look at my choices of CMANs the more I realize I just have more CMAN points to play around with now and not much is gonna change.

I do like how they made armor skills cheaper so I can pick up pretty much all armor specializations now though.

[BJARN]

Has anyone substantially changed the way they hunt yet because of these changes?


I love reactive armor spikes and I didn't think I would use weaponskills at all because I mostly head ambush but they are great too.

[Methais]

Has anyone substantially changed the way they hunt yet because of these changes?

At first I was excited for these changes but the more I look at my choices of CMANs the more I realize I just have more CMAN points to play around with now and not much is gonna change.

I do like how they made armor skills cheaper so I can pick up pretty much all armor specializations now though.

They haven't gotten to the nerf everyone into the ground part yet.

[drumpel]

They haven't gotten to the nerf everyone into the ground part yet.

They've already outright refused to allow any pure class to learn weapons skills.

They already reduced everyone's SMR defense.

The stealth nerf to SMRV2 wound/health loss they said "wasn't working correctly and had to be fixed", even though the "broken" part was allowed to be part of the equation since to conception of 917 revamp and the initial introduction of SMRv2 from the god auction shield throw item.

I hear shield bash doesn't work like it used to, lacks the knockdown effectiveness it had.....

I'm sure other things will be discovered as time progresses with PSM3 having officially been released.

[Methais]

They've already outright refused to allow any pure class to learn weapons skills.

They already reduced everyone's SMR defense.

The stealth nerf to SMRV2 wound/health loss they said "wasn't working correctly and had to be fixed", even though the "broken" part was allowed to be part of the equation since to conception of 917 revamp and the initial introduction of SMRv2 from the god auction shield throw item.

I hear shield bash doesn't work like it used to, lacks the knockdown effectiveness it had.....

I'm sure other things will be discovered as time progresses with PSM3 having officially been released.

I'm talking about direct nerfs. They're coming.