New Rogue - good combat-pvp spec

[Parkbandit]

I apologize for not having the specifics on hand.. as our stupid corporate firewall prevents me from seeing anything WoW related.

But does anyone have a really good spec for a rogue to be good at PvP and all around useful for instances later on? I know I will want to max out my stealth capabilities.. because I REALLY LIKE BEING STEALTHY.. and I know I will end up needing what.. preparation and cold blood?

A little help please?

[StrayRogue]

Depends on how you want to be effective. Like by pure damage dealing, being sneaky, versatile etc.

[Nieninque]

I'm listening too

[SnatchWrangler]

I'm not helping cuz I want you to retire that little bitch Stabbed (although, a part of me wants you to get him to 60 so I can repeatedly wtfpwn! you into deleting him).

[StrayRogue]

A basic build would be to get Cold Blooded and Preperation.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
A basic build would be to get Cold Blooded and Preperation.

Yea.. that is my plan. I guess I was just looking for feedback.

Like for a shaman.. stormstrike was the most worthless talent EVER..

I just don't want to fall into the same pitfalls as a rogue.. to go for some talent that ends up being pretty useless compared to really good ones.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
I'm not helping cuz I want you to retire that little bitch Stabbed (although, a part of me wants you to get him to 60 so I can repeatedly wtfpwn! you into deleting him).

Let me tell you Alorg.. it's going to be pretty hard to pull me away from Stabbed right now. I am having a fucking ball with being a rogue.

I need weapon upgrades now though. I hate not having an off hand sword.. so I can't use backstab or ambush. I am using a level 18 dagger (Pearl handled one) and a level 21 main hand sword. I think I need to do whatever quest gives that meteor shard away... I think that's the best dagger right now for me.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by StrayRogue
A basic build would be to get Cold Blooded and Preperation.

Yea.. that is my plan. I guess I was just looking for feedback.

Like for a shaman.. stormstrike was the most worthless talent EVER..

I just don't want to fall into the same pitfalls as a rogue.. to go for some talent that ends up being pretty useless compared to really good ones.

If you're shooting for prep/cold blood (which you should be), there's a pretty limited amount of talents you have to pick from. And after reading over descriptions, it should be pretty clear which seem good (improved sap, hemmorage, imp SS, imp Cheapshot), and which sound like shit (like the shortened cooldown on Sprint?!?)

[StrayRogue]

The shard drops off the final guy in Shadowfang. Awesome dagger. I'm still using it at level 40.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
I need weapon upgrades now though. I hate not having an off hand sword.. so I can't use backstab or ambush. I am using a level 18 dagger (Pearl handled one) and a level 21 main hand sword. I think I need to do whatever quest gives that meteor shard away... I think that's the best dagger right now for me.

I have no clue what you're talking about. And that shard isn't a quest, it's a boss drop from SFK. The shank from RFK is MUCH better.

What...you can't ambush/backstab with a dagger, then swap to your sword when you start spamming SS? You confuse me little one.

[StrayRogue]

I didn't go for cold blooded. With the equipment I have and the talents I'm aiming for I'm going to have a 25% chance to crit on EVERY strike. Plus I'm more geared for support of my Cold Blood/Prep friend. I'm the tank rogue, if such a thing could exist. Pure critter slaying abilities. Such things as improved Sap, Blade Fury etc.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
What...you can't ambush/backstab with a dagger, then swap to your sword when you start spamming SS?

Pretty sure one of the last patches stopped people from being able to switch out equipment while in battle. I assume that would go for swapping weapons.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Wezas

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler
What...you can't ambush/backstab with a dagger, then swap to your sword when you start spamming SS?

Pretty sure one of the last patches stopped people from being able to switch out equipment while in battle. I assume that would go for swapping weapons.

This is the line from the patch notes:

"Players can no longer swap inventory gear while dueling. "

It definately hasn't been implimented yet, because I open every attack with cheapshot, backstab, swap to General's sword, hemmorage, etc.

Hopefully this is only involving dueling. I'm not sure, but maybe it was possible to switch armor and trinkets instantly, as opposed to not being able to when you're in combat with normal mobs.

[Nieninque]

Its in the test servers now
At the moment you cant swap gear while in combat but you can while you are duelling

[Blazing247]

Do NOT go for Cold Blood/Prep when you are leveling. That is not a grinding spec, that is an end game spec.

I'd say shoot for 30/8/13 or an ASS/COM build. You will rip through multiple mobs with remorslessness, and the CP generation will be outta this world.

You won't need things like CB, prep, imp sap, etc. until 50+.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Nieninque
Its in the test servers now
At the moment you cant swap gear while in combat but you can while you are duelling

Wow...that's a huge fucking nerf for me.

[Blazing247]

Clarification please. Gear, INCLUDING weapons, or not including weapons?

If it's including weapons, that's another notch in the death of the ambush rogue.

[Keller]

ummmmm.

No more switching weapons?

I might go combat rogue if that happens.

[Edited on 5-25-2005 by Keller]

[Andy8F]

If you're still leveling up then sword/combat is the best way to go. If you're 60 then daggers with assasin/subtlety is really good for pvp and
instances. Soloing mobs will be alot slower though.

Right now i'm using daggers and have a 21-9-21 build. The burst damage with backstrike and ambush is awesome and you'll drop cloth wearers in seconds. Combat build is better for standing toe toe with warriors and palidans.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Blazing247
Clarification please. Gear, INCLUDING weapons, or not including weapons?

If it's including weapons, that's another notch in the death of the ambush rogue.

Go check the rogue forums. Apparently there's a huge exploit where if you create a macro where the conditions are:

Dagger in main hand, sword/mace in off hand.

Macro to ambush.

Immediately swap dagger to sword/mace.

If this happens, apparently you're able to actually ambush OR backstab using a sword or mace. This obviously leads to some ridiculous damage totals. (People ambushing with a Krol Blade or even a Thrash Blade well over 2000+).

That may be why this is being implemented.

[Odups]

I'm bizarre, my little rogue is gonna end up with 0-21-30. No clue how it'll work, but looking at the trees I just didn't want to invest in assasination just to get a few key things I wanted. I went far enough to get Dual Wield Spec in Combat, and I spread it around in Subtlety (no preparation). First rogue, so I might as well get crazy.

Added: The patch notes only say this about the weapon swapping thing "Players can no longer swap inventory gear while dueling. " Currently, when you're in combat you can't switch trinkets and possibly armor (not sure). When you duel, you can still swap those things out. They're fixing that factor. The weapon swapping macro thing is a separate issue caused by delays in macros or something similar. The fix is only regarding duels and inventory gear, not weapons.

[Edited on 5-25-2005 by Odups]

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Originally posted by Blazing247
Clarification please. Gear, INCLUDING weapons, or not including weapons?

If it's including weapons, that's another notch in the death of the ambush rogue.

Go check the rogue forums. Apparently there's a huge exploit where if you create a macro where the conditions are:

Dagger in main hand, sword/mace in off hand.

Macro to ambush.

Immediately swap dagger to sword/mace.

If this happens, apparently you're able to actually ambush OR backstab using a sword or mace. This obviously leads to some ridiculous damage totals. (People ambushing with a Krol Blade or even a Thrash Blade well over 2000+).

That may be why this is being implemented.

I seem to recall it having something to do with warriors from a while back as well. cant remember the specifics.

[Andy8F]

The talent that increases offhand damage is pretty useless for a rogue. The only thing you need to worry about for an offhand weapon is the speed and the stats. Daggers such as bonescraper and scarlet kriss are two examples of a good offhand dagger.

[StrayRogue]

50% extra sword damage isn't worthless to me.

[Aesur]

Just copy me, and you'll be the best rogue EVAR.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?29027

(ignore my crappy level 40 offhand, finding a suitable replacement has been a pain)

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Aesur
Just copy me, and you'll be the best rogue EVAR.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?29027

(ignore my crappy level 40 offhand, finding a suitable replacement has been a pain)

Why are your stats so...for lack of a better word...crappy?

Shouldn't your AGI, Health, and ATK power be higher with all that gear you're wearing?

[Blazing247]

You have a great main hand mace, and a great pair of boots. Other than that, not so good man. 3k health and 428 attack power at 60 is pretty dismal. Hopefully your crit rate is up around 25%.

I've got 4k unbuffed HP's and about 150 more attack power than you. If you're doing MC, Onyxia, Kazz/Azure runs, you better regear yourself.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Blazing247
You have a great main hand mace, and a great pair of boots. Other than that, not so good man. 3k health and 428 attack power at 60 is pretty dismal. Hopefully your crit rate is up around 25%.

I've got 4k unbuffed HP's and about 150 more attack power than you. If you're doing MC, Onyxia, Kazz/Azure runs, you better regear yourself.

He's got pretty good gear (much better than mine), and the only thing lacking is the offhand weapon. But his AGI stat is atleast 50 too low, and STA is only 164?!...mine's nearly 100 higher than that.

And like you said, ATK power is pretty poor.

[Andy8F]

Here's my current setup.


http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?124591

I switch out the pvp gloves for aged core leather gloves when i'm doing pve raids. Replacing the cloak soon with a shifting cloak.

[Lobster]

21/8/22 is generic, but it's a good all around build. The weak point here is soloing, but unless you're pulling more than 1 mob it will be easy enough.

When solo PvE I CS & BS, then back up steadily. With crippling poison I usually won't take a hit because the mob can't catch me. Once I get full energy I Gouge, wait, BS, Eviscetate. This kills most mobs easily. If it's something with more armor I'll rinse and repeat. This basic technique takes longer to kill the mob, but I can move onto the next with nearly full health.

For PvP it's usually suicide runs, picking off stragglers or "caster baiting", which is basically for killing other rogues. I usually rank in the top 50-100 easily and don't PvP more than an hour a day, with rogues making up probably 75% of my kills.

Cold Blood is a MUST for PvP. I'm trying to think about my play stayle and come up with a different build that probably isn't better, but might be better for my needs and play style.

Originally posted by Lobster
21/8/22 is generic, but it's a good all around build. The weak point here is soloing, but unless you're pulling more than 1 mob it will be easy enough.

When solo PvE I CS & BS, then back up steadily.

I usually start with Gouge, and let my energy build back to full. It's like starting every combat with a Combo Point already against the critter.

My rogue is level 11, so this advice is probably far better than anything anyone else has to offer. :duh:

[Aesur]

Still having stormshroud chest causes a hefty stamina hit compared to other armors, and sc cap would be a good stamina upgrade. And of course, replacing my pants for shadowcraft would help some, but blademaster's leggings aren't exactly suck. Beyond that I'm curious what more you would suggest for non-epic gear.

Again, with the exception of my offhand mace, and the stormshroud chest, I think I have the best non-epic/non-set items I can get or near to it. I'm not getting any enchants yet (+stam mainly) until I get pieces I know i'll be keeping.

As far as MC etc are concerned, hah. No i'm not using this gear to raid epic instances. I have found it utterly impossible being a rogue in a smaller guild to get invites to end-game raids. God knows I try.

Anyhow, I mainly posted the allakhazam link to point out my talent spec for Falgrin/bayne as it's a good example of being very instance-friendly without sacrificing much pvp-utility. This of course assumes you prefer maces/swords over daggers.


Originally posted by Blazing247
You have a great main hand mace, and a great pair of boots. Other than that, not so good man. 3k health and 428 attack power at 60 is pretty dismal. Hopefully your crit rate is up around 25%.

I've got 4k unbuffed HP's and about 150 more attack power than you. If you're doing MC, Onyxia, Kazz/Azure runs, you better regear yourself.

[Aesur]

I'm confused, 50 agil low? I just looked at Gheno's gear, and he's got 22 more agility than me with *3* epic pieces of armor + 2 pvp pieces.

And regarding the 4k unbuffed health, again referring to Gheno's post, he has 3673 to my 3033, with again, major epic equipment. And still, 3673 dang sure ain't 4k.

Attack power, he has 40 more than me. How the hell do you have 150 more than me?


Originally posted by SnatchWrangler

Originally posted by Blazing247
You have a great main hand mace, and a great pair of boots. Other than that, not so good man. 3k health and 428 attack power at 60 is pretty dismal. Hopefully your crit rate is up around 25%.

I've got 4k unbuffed HP's and about 150 more attack power than you. If you're doing MC, Onyxia, Kazz/Azure runs, you better regear yourself.

He's got pretty good gear (much better than mine), and the only thing lacking is the offhand weapon. But his AGI stat is atleast 50 too low, and STA is only 164?!...mine's nearly 100 higher than that.

And like you said, ATK power is pretty poor.

[Wezas]

Greye - so far at age 51:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?124966

Gear definitely needs to be upgraded.

2291 health
76 str (uggh)
231 agi
136 sta
32 int (dumb)
52 spi
1400 even armor.

Spec'd for Combat/Assassination.

[Andy8F]

That profile doesn't show the correct attack power, mine is 636 with that gear on, 666 with ap gear.

[Aesur]

eh you're right, mine's actually 70 more than what's shown on my profile.

[Guerrin]

Sup all.

Prefer combat myself.

cb + evis for pvp...you'll eat casters.

you'll prob live longer with combat, and, its better for the grind (or so i'm told)

You can use weaponswap mod from Curse-gaming to swap weapons. IE, Krol to barmans shanker.

I'm over on Stormscale, horde side, the rest of the GS people still on ARgent Dawn?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Guerrin
Sup all.

Prefer combat myself.

cb + evis for pvp...you'll eat casters.

you'll prob live longer with combat, and, its better for the grind (or so i'm told)

You can use weaponswap mod from Curse-gaming to swap weapons. IE, Krol to barmans shanker.

I'm over on Stormscale, horde side, the rest of the GS people still on ARgent Dawn?

Have the link for the weapon swap mod? I'd be very interested in having that.

And no.. there are some from here on Ardent Dawn RP server, but many of us are on the Dunemaul PvP server.

[Guerrin]

http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=110

There ya go. This mod is great for warriors too, or, so I'm told.

Dunemaul low pop?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Guerrin
http://www.curse-gaming.com/mod.php?addid=110

There ya go. This mod is great for warriors too, or, so I'm told.

Dunemaul low pop?

Sweet.. thanks.

Yea, Dunemaul is low pop.. some good things and bad things with that.

Good - Lower lag.. lower lag and also lower lag.

Bad - tough to get 40 man raids up... prices are pretty fucking high.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Yea, Dunemaul is low pop.. some good things and bad things with that.

Good - Lower lag.. lower lag and also lower lag.

Bad - tough to get 40 man raids up... prices are pretty fucking high.

It's completely dependent on the item.

Some items are more expensive (lower level items, that don't have the mass production that higher pop servers have), some are cheaper (high end items because there's less people out there with infinite amounts of gold).

Atleast, that's what I see.

Like I saw a Krol Blade for sale about two months ago for 400g, 500g buyout. At the time I thought that was ridiculous...I'd probably be tripping over myself to buy it now.

I hear on other servers they sell for 800-900g.

[SnatchWrangler]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
Have the link for the weapon swap mod? I'd be very interested in having that.


I really hate all these mods and shit and wish Blizzard did something more inclusive.

I didn't buy this game to write fucking code, yet I feel at a distinct advantage when I'm not using every option available.

I still don't fucking know how CTRaidassist works exactly. (And I know 98% of other people don't either.)

[Guerrin]

Yeah, my guild was on SR where we had all the pains of being High pop pvp server...switched to SS (low/med pop) and have been lovin it.

Guildmate of mine was having some problems with that addon, but, eventually got it worked out. Just read the instructions on curse-gaming and you should get it np.