Unbalance Flare Immunity

[Kraven]

In general, which creature types are immune to unbalance criticals? I know all Non-Corp undead are, but they are immune to grapple flares as well so.

[Maerit]

If you can get grapple on a blessed weapon, I'm pretty sure non-corp undead aren't immune.

[Kraven]

huh why would unbalance be immune but not grapple? wow unbalance sucks a big one.

[Maerit]

Unbalance has potential kill crits and has "better" crit damage overall compared to grapple. Grapple is just if you want to knock stuff over, it basically cannot kill things.

[gilchristr]

potential crit kills that are probably totally inaccessible from flares

There does not need to be a "why" about it. Some gm decided it wouldn't be "realistic" for unbalance flares to work on non-corp, but that idea didnt enter the mind of the gm doing grapple flares. There is no subtle balance for it, it just is what it is from like 25 years ago (or more). Get your shit grapple flared

[Maerit]

potential crit kills that are probably totally inaccessible from flares


Was this specific to unbalance/grapple? A lot of flares can deal killing critical damage often enough is why I ask, and unbalance flares can kill but it's pretty close to 1% of the time due to having to get the lucky jackpot flare on a target vulnerable to unbalance. Personally, I don't like grapple or unbalance flares because most of the time you need to knock something over you're not relying on the flare to do it, and you're using a skill/spell/attack that will knock the target down already. Knock-down flares just feel extra redundant. I'd rather use a flare that deals meaningful damage and has a higher chance to just instantly kill my target reducing my need for additional attacks.

[gilchristr]

Yes my comments were specific to unbalance/grapple. If you want to try to get knockdowns, choose grapple.

If you want a chance to kill things for the reasons you say, and your reasons certainly make sense, for heavan's sake, don't choose unbalance. I think earth flares are the most likely to get crit kills out of the common flares (besides lightening, which is certainly deadlier, but can also trigger suicidal room effects as I understand).

[Donquix]

Was this specific to unbalance/grapple? A lot of flares can deal killing critical damage often enough is why I ask, and unbalance flares can kill but it's pretty close to 1% of the time due to having to get the lucky jackpot flare on a target vulnerable to unbalance. Personally, I don't like grapple or unbalance flares because most of the time you need to knock something over you're not relying on the flare to do it, and you're using a skill/spell/attack that will knock the target down already. Knock-down flares just feel extra redundant. I'd rather use a flare that deals meaningful damage and has a higher chance to just instantly kill my target reducing my need for additional attacks.

Crit kill via unbalance, or grapple, are probably entirely impossible if we're talking "normal" cat B flares. I don't think they generate the rank 8+ flare you would need for that at all.

Other, more lethal in general, flares rarely do and most of the more typical magicalish (i.e. not slash/puncture/crush) flares need at least like rank 6 (for head/eyes usually) or higher.

If you have a script-flare that uses the grapple/unbalance table (like animal spirit) it's possible at the higher unlock levels but obviously will happen even less than something that needs a 6+ on vital locations.

[Maerit]

The only place I like grapple flares (or unbalance if grapple isn't available) is on armor or shields for reactive flares. On weapons, I find it wasted as I will use my weapon or skills to knock an opponent over for much higher chance of knock-down than rely on a 20% chance flare. Reactively they're not bad because it's a defensive flare, if the target is not already prone and able to swing at you, then it'll help for it to be knocked over passively.

[gilchristr]

Wouldn't grapple be good for a bow where your capped chance of hitting an eye is like 75%?

If you miss the eye, and the thing doesn't die, seems like a good idea to have the flare kick in to prone it.

Same thing for ambushing.

[Donquix]

Grapple is, generally speaking, just a really good normal cat b flare to have. It's better for AS/DS than UCS probably just because, in general, UCS doesn't have trouble hitting stuff and doesn't get as much benefit from knockdowns as normal melee does (and also generates plenty itself while tiering up). I wouldn't pick it for most script flares that hit for higher crit ranks because it's not like it EXTRA knocks them down or anything so doesn't make much of a difference.

But yeah i agree with what you're saying. You miss your intended target so your flare is just there for insurance, so you want a flare with the highest chance to disable. I mean setting aside getting dispel, which is likely significantly better for ranged/ambush (also significantly more expensive), grapple would likely be my pick. or magma, but that's likewise rarer/more expensive.

[Maerit]

I mean setting aside getting dispel, which is likely significantly better for ranged/ambush (also significantly more expensive), grapple would likely be my pick. or magma, but that's likewise rarer/more expensive.

Technically, getting basic dispel or grapple flares is the same cost in the HESS. Double the cost for double dispel.

Flare choices include Disintegrate, Dispel (1 spell), Disruption, Unbalance, or Grapple. - 30k BS.

[Donquix]

I wouldn't be surprised if that changed. Also D3 dispel or GTFO :D

[gilchristr]

What would you recommend to pair with knockout on some UAC gloves?

Same recommendation as ranged (dispell), or different?

[Maerit]

What would you recommend to pair with knockout on some UAC gloves?

Same recommendation as ranged (dispell), or different?

Don't add CAT B flares until they change Bless mechanics. Personally find the KO flares + being able to bless the gloves / boots is greater than adding CAT B.

[gilchristr]

The gloves have GUB :)

[Maerit]

The gloves have GUB :)

Junk, toss em in the well.