On the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

[Latrinsorm]

The FDA tonight authorized the first COVID-19 vaccine (https://www.fda.gov/media/144412/download) for use in America. Our current supply will be enough to immunize 3 million Americans, and if we start literally right now as I'm writing this they will be 95% immune to COVID-19 on January 8th 2021 (three weeks from first dose to second, exposure no less than one week later (https://www.fda.gov/media/144412/download)). This is good news!

The bad news - there are 18 million healthcare workers and 2 million nursing home residents in the United States, and obviously way more front line essential workers (with the exact figure depending on how you'd like to define it, no not you Mike Pence). We won't be even a sixth of the way through those populations with that current supply, we're only expecting to get more "by March" (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/10/944857395/us-government-may-find-it-hard-to-get-more-doses-of-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine) of the 47 million immunizations we agreed to, and the remaining production is already spoken for around the rest of the world through June. Put short, we are going to need another vaccine to get back to normalcy in less than a year. This in and of itself isn't terrible since Moderna is also looking very promising, but GSK and Sanofi (https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-releases/sanofi-and-gsk-announce-a-delay-in-their-adjuvanted-recombinant-protein-based-covid-19-vaccine-programme-to-improve-immune-response-in-the-elderly/) just announced they're out of it until "late 2021", and crucially they announced that because they saw a too dramatically reduced impact on older (i.e. 50+) study participants, which Pfizer also saw but not to the point of the vaccine being useless for that population. This is pretty important when it's the elderly we're especially (but not exclusively!) looking to protect!

But the ugly news is that it doesn't matter how effective or approved a vaccine is if not enough people take it - masks social distancing and rudimentary government intervention alone are incontrovertibly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_Zealand) proven (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_South_Korea) to drive the spread to zero, and we didn't do that, and the very same partisans who disputed and disregarded those common sense measures are disproportionately dragging their feet (https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/12/03/intent-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-rises-to-60-as-confidence-in-research-and-development-process-increases/) when it comes to getting vaccinated, and most alarmingly they have done so since May of 2020 - how much more reticent will they become when our crepey [sic] uncle sleeps in the West Wing?

Which brings us to the really ugly news. We've all seen deaths in the US explode past 3,000 souls lost in a day, we've all seen the 9/11 comp tropes, but it's not Manhattan burning this time, it's not the white collar bankers and financiers. This is where the ten hardest hit states stand today, as New Jersey becomes the first to reach the awful milestone of 2 dead per 1000 from coronavirus:


d/1m state
2005 New Jersey
1821 New York
1633 Massachusetts
1504 Connecticut
1483 North Dakota
1456 Louisiana
1424 Rhode Island
1386 Mississippi
1368 South Dakota
1189 Illinois
This is where at their present rates they'll stand in a month:


d/1m state
2546 North Dakota
2487 South Dakota
2204 New Jersey
2060 Kansas
1967 New York
1842 Massachusetts
1807 Connecticut
1799 Mississippi
1745 Iowa
1736 Rhode Island
Kansas and Iowa take Illinois' place of shame among the Midwest, North and South Dakota among whatever region it is they're in. No skyscrapers there. No world trade. Just honest Americans making an honest American living and an honest American dying.

.

It bears belaboring that NO ONE in the United States will be vaccinated by Christmas. It takes too long to administer the two doses at all, let alone for them to take effect.

Help, as it has for the past 38 days, is coming, but it will not and can not be here in time to even blunt these figures, let alone reduce them to 0.
Even what we do now can't.
For a month to come, it's already too late.

But we can put our shoulders to this mighty beached ship as with the turn of the calendar the tide finally begins to roll out.

And we can push.

[Wrathbringer]

The FDA tonight authorized the first COVID-19 vaccine (https://www.fda.gov/media/144412/download) for use in America. Our current supply will be enough to immunize 3 million Americans, and if we start literally right now as I'm writing this they will be 95% immune to COVID-19 on January 8th 2021 (three weeks from first dose to second, exposure no less than one week later (https://www.fda.gov/media/144412/download)). This is good news!

The bad news - there are 18 million healthcare workers and 2 million nursing home residents in the United States, and obviously way more front line essential workers (with the exact figure depending on how you'd like to define it, no not you Mike Pence). We won't be even a sixth of the way through those populations with that current supply, we're only expecting to get more "by March" (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/10/944857395/us-government-may-find-it-hard-to-get-more-doses-of-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine) of the 47 million immunizations we agreed to, and the remaining production is already spoken for around the rest of the world through June. Put short, we are going to need another vaccine to get back to normalcy in less than a year. This in and of itself isn't terrible since Moderna is also looking very promising, but GSK and Sanofi (https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-releases/sanofi-and-gsk-announce-a-delay-in-their-adjuvanted-recombinant-protein-based-covid-19-vaccine-programme-to-improve-immune-response-in-the-elderly/) just announced they're out of it until "late 2021", and crucially they announced that because they saw a too dramatically reduced impact on older (i.e. 50+) study participants, which Pfizer also saw but not to the point of the vaccine being useless for that population. This is pretty important when it's the elderly we're especially (but not exclusively!) looking to protect!

But the ugly news is that it doesn't matter how effective or approved a vaccine is if not enough people take it - masks social distancing and rudimentary government intervention alone are incontrovertibly (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_Zealand) proven (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_South_Korea) to drive the spread to zero, and we didn't do that, and the very same partisans who disputed and disregarded those common sense measures are disproportionately dragging their feet (https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2020/12/03/intent-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-rises-to-60-as-confidence-in-research-and-development-process-increases/) when it comes to getting vaccinated, and most alarmingly they have done so since May of 2020 - how much more reticent will they become when our crepey [sic] uncle sleeps in the West Wing?

Which brings us to the really ugly news. We've all seen deaths in the US explode past 3,000 souls lost in a day, we've all seen the 9/11 comp tropes, but it's not Manhattan burning this time, it's not the white collar bankers and financiers. This is where the ten hardest hit states stand today, as New Jersey becomes the first to reach the awful milestone of 2 dead per 1000 from coronavirus:


d/1m state
2005 New Jersey
1821 New York
1633 Massachusetts
1504 Connecticut
1483 North Dakota
1456 Louisiana
1424 Rhode Island
1386 Mississippi
1368 South Dakota
1189 Illinois
This is where at their present rates they'll stand in a month:


d/1m state
2546 North Dakota
2487 South Dakota
2204 New Jersey
2060 Kansas
1967 New York
1842 Massachusetts
1807 Connecticut
1799 Mississippi
1745 Iowa
1736 Rhode Island
Kansas and Iowa take Illinois' place of shame among the Midwest, North and South Dakota among whatever region it is they're in. No skyscrapers there. No world trade. Just honest Americans making an honest American living and an honest American dying.

.

It bears belaboring that NO ONE in the United States will be vaccinated by Christmas. It takes too long to administer the two doses at all, let alone for them to take effect.

Help, as it has for the past 38 days, is coming, but it will not and can not be here in time to even blunt these figures, let alone reduce them to 0.
Even what we do now can't.
For a month to come, it's already too late.

But we can put our shoulders to this mighty beached ship as with the turn of the calendar the tide finally begins to roll out.

And we can push.

Fortunately, this isn't a serious virus. These few deaths are acceptable losses compared to the draconian measures ruining the livelihoods of the 99.8% that survive this virus. The flu kills 0.02% annually. Covid killed 0.06% this year. But hey, don't let this keep you from enjoying your basement wearing seventeen metrosexual masks and three that are blatantly gay.

[Methais]

lol macgyver

[Latrinsorm]

Fortunately, this isn't a serious virus. These few deaths are acceptable losses compared to the draconian measures ruining the livelihoods of the 99.8% that survive this virus. The flu kills 0.02% annually. Covid killed 0.06% this year. But hey, don't let this keep you from enjoying your basement wearing seventeen metrosexual masks and three that are blatantly gay.

I don't need to wear masks in my basement partially because it doesn't exist but mostly because there would be no one else in it that I would be at risk of infecting: my mask protects the people around me, not me.

Since you bring it up, I already wore masks while sick with the flu when I was likely to be around others, and for the same reason - I don't want to kill people.

[Wrathbringer]

It killed 300,000 people. Do you know what that looks like? That’s 100 9/11’s literally. 100 9/11’s, just think about that dude.

It’s the fucking hypocrisy that drives me mad with “Conservatives”. Don’t get me wrong I’m fiscally conservative and was raised a orthodox Catholic but it’s like, abortion is murder! 300,000 deaths is acceptable! Pick one!

And 20-30 9/11's happened annually with the flu and no one gave a shit. Comparing to something else doesn't change the numbers. it's still 0.06%, the majority of which are aged 80+ and in nursing homes for other shit that will kill them if covid doesn't.

[Wrathbringer]

I don't need to wear masks in my basement partially because it doesn't exist but mostly because there would be no one else in it that I would be at risk of infecting: my mask protects the people around me, not me.

Since you bring it up, I already wore masks while sick with the flu when I was likely to be around others, and for the same reason - I don't want to kill people.

This is America. Feel free to virtue signal all you want by employing whatever ineffective measures you like. Meanwhile, I'll feel free to live my life as per normal, since I recognize that there is zero culpability concerning who may or may not have infected someone in dire health that may end up dying from something tangentially related to covid. If the at-risk aren't taking proper and effective precautions, that's on them. Not me. Or you. Relying on others to protect your own health is a fool's errand.

Edit: Now that you've already been owned by me twice in your own thread, please let other ignorant, terrified libtards have a shot. Virtue signal your willingness to let others like you whine incessantly by not wasting any more of your time with tired bleeding heart replies that don't address any of the points being made. Thanks.

[Methais]

I don't need to wear masks in my basement partially because it doesn't exist but mostly because there would be no one else in it that I would be at risk of infecting: my mask protects the people around me, not me.

Since you bring it up, I already wore masks while sick with the flu when I was likely to be around others, and for the same reason - I don't want to kill people.

Why do you wear a condom when you masturbate though?

[Methais]

This is America. Feel free to virtue signal all you want by employing whatever ineffective measures you like. Meanwhile, I'll feel free to live my life as per normal, since I recognize that there is zero culpability concerning who may or may not have infected someone in dire health that may end up dying from something tangentially related to covid. If the at-risk aren't taking proper and effective precautions, that's on them. Not me. Or you. Relying on others to protect your own health is a fool's errand.

Edit: Now that you've already been owned by me twice in your own thread, please let other ignorant, terrified libtards have a shot. Virtue signal your willingness to let others like you whine incessantly by not wasting any more of your time with tired bleeding heart replies that don't address any of the points being made. Thanks.

This is correct.

[Vindicate]

Since you bring it up, I already wore masks while sick with the flu when I was likely to be around others, and for the same reason - I don't want to kill people.

There are some flaws in your logic.
If you simply wore a mask and skipped disposable gloves, you'd really only sort of protect others. Secondly, if you had influenza, you shouldn't have left your house. You should be self quarantining right? I assume you would do that if you tested positive with Covid-19.

I am also going to assume you drive a car. And while you don't want them to occur, accidents do happen and people can die. Do you still drive? Or is an accident somehow acceptable. I ask this because I assume that most people who infect others are not doing so purpose.

[Back]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-it-a-crime-to-intentionally-get-someone-sick.html#:~:text=The%20Centers%20for%20Disease%20 Control,tracking%20system%20for%20infectious%20dis eases.&text=In%20most%20states%2C%20people%20can,expose%2 0others%20to%20the%20disease


A person whose intentional or reckless behavior spreads an infectious disease, such as HIV, SARS, or COVID-19, could face criminal charges.

While there may or may not be legal consequences to not wearing a mask having total disregard for other people while participating in society is a dick move.

[Neveragain]

I don't need to wear masks in my basement partially because it doesn't exist but mostly because there would be no one else in it that I would be at risk of infecting: my mask protects the people around me, not me.

Since you bring it up, I already wore masks while sick with the flu when I was likely to be around others, and for the same reason - I don't want to kill people.

Why are you even around others when you have the flu?

[Wrathbringer]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-it-a-crime-to-intentionally-get-someone-sick.html#:~:text=The%20Centers%20for%20Disease%20 Control,tracking%20system%20for%20infectious%20dis eases.&text=In%20most%20states%2C%20people%20can,expose%2 0others%20to%20the%20disease



While there may or may not be legal consequences to not wearing a mask having total disregard for other people while participating in society is a dick move.

No one is intentionally going out while contagious with covid and coughing on at risk people in order to kill them, you tard. Requiring 998 healthy people to wear a mask 24/7 in public in a vain attempt to save two nursing home patients dying anyway is a dick move. Requiring everyone's businesses to close because of those same two people is a dick move. Taking away everyone's jobs for the same two people out of a thousand is a dick move. Closing schools, which are proven to not be hotspots due to most being asymptomatic, because of two kids who can't do in person learning, is a dick move. People are going to die. It isn't anyone's fault. It's a virus; an act of nature, and it isn't serious. This isn't the bubonic plague, as much as you wish it were.

[Back]

Not taking steps we know we can take is not only a dick move. Its a stupid move.


CDC estimates that influenza was associated with more than 35.5 million illnesses, more than 16.5 million medical visits, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths during the 2018–2019 influenza season.Jan 8, 2020

This is far deadlier than the flu.

But carry on not giving a shit about people dying or the people trying to save them. I'm sure the familes of the dead and the healthcare workers appreciate it.

[Wrathbringer]

Not taking steps we know we can take is not only a dick move. Its a stupid move.



This is far deadlier than the flu.

But carry on not giving a shit about people dying or the people trying to save them. I'm sure the familes of the dead and the healthcare workers appreciate it.

There is zero empirical evidence showing that our measures have saved even one person who would not have otherwise died. Tard. People die everyday from multiple causes, Back. Life is not without risk. Harming the 99.8% in their livelihoods, educations, and mental health in a vain attempt to save 0.2% is retarded, no matter how you slice it. I'm tired of trying to be kind when explaining this obvious point. 20 years ago, you wouldn't have needed to explain this. Fuck the 0.2%. Fuck them, Back. The lives of the 99.8% are more important.

[Vindicate]

This is far deadlier than the flu.


How exactly do you know what the mortality rate was on Year 1 of influenza? Or are you taking 100+ years of coexistence and whittling it down to 2018 stats?

[Parkbandit]

It killed 300,000 people. Do you know what that looks like? That’s 100 9/11’s literally. 100 9/11’s, just think about that dude.

It’s the fucking hypocrisy that drives me mad with “Conservatives”. Don’t get me wrong I’m fiscally conservative and was raised a orthodox Catholic but it’s like, abortion is murder! 300,000 deaths is acceptable! Pick one!

Cancer kills about 500K to 600K per year. Double Covid.

I've never heard you once compare that stat to 9/11.

Just think about that dude.

You're being played.

[Parkbandit]

I don't need to wear masks in my basement partially because it doesn't exist but mostly because there would be no one else in it that I would be at risk of infecting: my mask protects the people around me, not me.

Since you bring it up, I already wore masks while sick with the flu when I was likely to be around others, and for the same reason - I don't want to kill people.

If you were sick with the flu, you shouldn't be around others.

That's the type of behavior you should be far more concerned with... ignorant/selfish people like yourself who don't care about infecting others when you KNOW you have influenza/covid.

[Back]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-1132-9?utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=commission_junction&utm_campaign=3_nsn6445_deeplink_PID100045715&utm_content=deeplink


There is now growing evidence that face masks can considerably reduce the transmission of respiratory viruses like SARS-CoV-2, thereby limiting the spread of COVID-19 (refs. 22,23,24). We updated a recently published review24 to generate a new meta-analysis (Supplementary Information) of peer-reviewed studies and preprints to assess the effectiveness of masks at preventing respiratory viral infections in humans25. This analysis indicated a reduction in infection (from all respiratory viruses) for mask wearers by 40% (relative risk = 0.60, 95% uncertainty interval (UI) = 0.46–0.80)) relative to controls25. This is suggestive of a considerable population health benefit to mask use with great potential for uptake in the United States, where the national average for self-reported mask wearing was 49% as of 21 September 2020 (https://covid19.healthdata.org/; Supplementary Information).

Go ahead and keep talking shit you know nothing about.

[Parkbandit]

Not taking steps we know we can take is not only a dick move. Its a stupid move.

This is far deadlier than the flu.

But carry on not giving a shit about people dying or the people trying to save them. I'm sure the familes of the dead and the healthcare workers appreciate it.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/QXbkoBuCTY7MK06jGx/giphy.gif

[Parkbandit]

Go ahead and keep talking shit you know nothing about.

With the exception of being a leech to society, welfare programs for the mentally disabled and scraping by because you're lazy, isn't that your entire 17 year posting history here?

[Methais]

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/is-it-a-crime-to-intentionally-get-someone-sick.html#:~:text=The%20Centers%20for%20Disease%20 Control,tracking%20system%20for%20infectious%20dis eases.&text=In%20most%20states%2C%20people%20can,expose%2 0others%20to%20the%20disease



While there may or may not be legal consequences to not wearing a mask having total disregard for other people while participating in society is a dick move.

Imagine crossing the interstate during rush hour, and you're a turtle. Pretty high risk right? If the turtle chooses to cross the road anyway even though he knows he should just stay where he is, whose really at fault when he walks into the road and gets run over?

If you're high risk and you insist on going out anyway, you're stupid like the turtle, and you're also a dick for expecting all traffic to stop until you cross the road and then crying about it and blaming the cars when that doesn't happen.

Stop being a turtle. Dick.

[Viekn]

Imagine crossing the interstate during rush hour, and you're a turtle. Pretty high risk right? If the turtle chooses to cross the road anyway even though he knows he should just stay where he is, whose really at fault when he walks into the road and gets run over?

If you're high risk and you insist on going out anyway, you're stupid like the turtle, and you're also a dick for expecting all traffic to stop until you cross the road and then crying about it and blaming the cars when that doesn't happen.

Stop being a turtle. Dick.

Now let's imagine that turtle is actually Methais' own grandfather crossing the same highway and although everyone could have easily slowed down, no one bothered to because fuck that guy for trying to cross a busy highway.

[Latrinsorm]

There are some flaws in your logic.
If you simply wore a mask and skipped disposable gloves, you'd really only sort of protect others. Secondly, if you had influenza, you shouldn't have left your house. You should be self quarantining right? I assume you would do that if you tested positive with Covid-19.

I am also going to assume you drive a car. And while you don't want them to occur, accidents do happen and people can die. Do you still drive? Or is an accident somehow acceptable. I ask this because I assume that most people who infect others are not doing so purpose.

You see a flaw in logic but your premise is simply incorrect - gloves are not required to halt the spread of coronavirus, because multiples places have done so without them. Quod erat demonstrandum.

Since influenza is not as lethal or as novel as this coronavirus, the precautions that are reasonable to slow one are not for the other. Again, you simply have an incorrect premise.

Similarly, wearing or not wearing a mask has no impact whatsoever on anything else about my life. Beyond a trivial initial purchase price, it doesn't cost me any more to maintain as a load of laundry is the same with or without a few masks, it doesn't cost me any appreciable time or energy, it doesn't interfere with communication; in short, it is a massive upside negligible downside decision - easy! By comparison, ending the use of motor vehicles either for myself or for the nation would have drastic and wide-ranging downsides, and specifically ones that drastically outweigh the upside that can be mitigated many other ways, for example by forcing manufacturers to include seatbelts air bags and other safety features, forcing drivers to use them and abide by incredibly strict regulations on when where and how to start stop and turn, forcing drivers to not drink beyond a certain point, forcing drivers to go through an arduous licensing procedure... and in each of these cases, the upside significantly outweighs the downside.

All of these, unfortunately, require not logic but homework to determine, and nobody likes homework, so it's easy to fall into the trap of trying to be logical or clever or insightful instead.

In the end, the question you have to ask yourself is: do you want the easy answer or the correct answer? Alas, they are rarely the same.

[Latrinsorm]

This is America. Feel free to virtue signal all you want by employing whatever ineffective measures you like. Meanwhile, I'll feel free to live my life as per normal, since I recognize that there is zero culpability concerning who may or may not have infected someone in dire health that may end up dying from something tangentially related to covid. If the at-risk aren't taking proper and effective precautions, that's on them. Not me. Or you. Relying on others to protect your own health is a fool's errand.

Edit: Now that you've already been owned by me twice in your own thread, please let other ignorant, terrified libtards have a shot. Virtue signal your willingness to let others like you whine incessantly by not wasting any more of your time with tired bleeding heart replies that don't address any of the points being made. Thanks.

Perhaps decaf?

[Methais]

Not taking steps we know we can take is not only a dick move. Its a stupid move.



This is far deadlier than the flu.

But carry on not giving a shit about people dying or the people trying to save them. I'm sure the familes of the dead and the healthcare workers appreciate it.

Here are the steps you can take:

Stay the fuck home until it's all over.

Problem solved.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/l4Fsly71gEOtGvLQA/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47youanuxfrpjvdsfnk84fmw6oisdc k00brhfbhnqd&rid=giphy.gif

[Methais]

How exactly do you know what the mortality rate was on Year 1 of influenza? Or are you taking 100+ years of coexistence and whittling it down to 2018 stats?

There's a 99.999999999999999999999% chance he's just repeating what he heard on CNN.

Back literally has no independent thoughts of his own. Everything he posts is the result of someone else thinking for him and he's juts NPC'ing it up.

This is why it's usually best to just laugh at him instead of trying to present anything involving logic or reason.

[Methais]

Now let's imagine that turtle is actually Methais' own grandfather crossing the same highway and although everyone could have easily slowed down, no one bothered to because fuck that guy for trying to cross a busy highway.

My grandfather would have had enough sense to wait until traffic died down and stay on the side of the road in the meantime. He also wouldn't have the sense of entitlement that would make him think that all the traffic should come to a halt, at great consequence even, just for him.

But I'll play along...how slow should the cars be going? Most interstates have a 70 mph limit. What is an acceptable speed for you that they should slow down to? Because all that's going to do is make it take even longer for all that traffic to pass. There are also some trucks in said traffic that are transporting rescue turtles to a turtle sanctuary, but they have to make it there by a certain time or all the turtles being transported will die.

For 1 turtle.

[Wrathbringer]

Now let's imagine that turtle is actually Methais' own grandfather crossing the same highway and although everyone could have easily slowed down, no one bothered to because fuck that guy for trying to cross a busy highway.

Funny how bleeding heart liberals think making an analogy personal changes the facts. It doesn't. If the 0.2% that die from covid includes people I know, it's still 0.2% and only a selfish retard would expect the 99.8% to ruin their lives because they happen to know someone in the 0.2%. Grow up. Do you have any pertinent points to make, by chance?

[Wrathbringer]

Perhaps decaf?

Perhaps logic?

[Viekn]

Funny how bleeding heart liberals think making an analogy personal changes the facts. It doesn't. If the 0.2% that die from covid includes people I know, it's still 0.2% and only a selfish retard would expect the 99.8% to ruin their lives because they happen to know someone in the 0.2%. Grow up. Do you have any pertinent points to make, by chance?

How should I respond to that? By saying cold hearted right wing bastards do the exact opposite by making an analogy so impersonal by using a turtle's life as compared to a human's that the argument loses all value? Fine, don't make it Methais' grandfather, just make it a human instead of a turtle and almost instantly the argument against the turtle being the asshole becomes completely different. Using that analogy, I'd sure hope anyone would feel more empathy for seeing a human's body parts scattered across a highway vs. a squished turtle.

[Methais]

Perhaps logic?

https://i.imgur.com/Xr4x2c9.jpg

/logic

[Methais]

How should I respond to that? By saying cold hearted right wing bastards do the exact opposite by making an analogy so impersonal by using a turtle's life as compared to a human's that the argument loses all value? Fine, don't make it Methais' grandfather, just make it a human instead of a turtle and almost instantly the argument against the turtle being the asshole becomes completely different. Using that analogy, I'd sure hope anyone would feel more empathy for seeing a human's body parts scattered across a highway vs. a squished turtle.

I used a turtle because they move slow as fuck, i.e. high risk.

I assumed that that would have been obvious.

Try approaching the subject with logic instead of emotions.

But yes I'm totally a "cold hearted right wing bastard" even though I still do the mask thing, stay the fuck home, etc., probably more than most of these mask Karens do.

It's so much easier to put people into little boxes and slap on a label though, isn't it? That way you don't have to do any actual thinking.

Also, my grandfathers died in 1988 and 1994, so I'm pretty sure they're both immune to COVID.

So cold hearted of you to use my dead grandfathers as a prop for your argument.

The cold heartedest.

Reported.

And backtraced.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Rbgq5QNxvUI/hqdefault.jpg

[Wrathbringer]

How should I respond to that? By saying cold hearted right wing bastards do the exact opposite by making an analogy so impersonal by using a turtle's life as compared to a human's that the argument loses all value? Fine, don't make it Methais' grandfather, just make it a human instead of a turtle and almost instantly the argument against the turtle being the asshole becomes completely different. Using that analogy, I'd sure hope anyone would feel more empathy for seeing a human's body parts scattered across a highway vs. a squished turtle.

You should respond to that by looking at the numbers and not bringing your fee fees into that study so that you can draw an impartial conclusion.

[Viekn]

I used a turtle because they move slow as fuck, i.e. high risk.

I assumed that that would have been obvious.

Try approaching the subject with logic instead of emotions.

But yes I'm totally a "cold hearted right wing bastard" even though I still do the mask thing, stay the fuck home, etc., probably more than most mask Karens do.

It's so much easier to put people into little boxes and slap on a label though, isn't it? That way you don't have to do any actual thinking.

Well, first of all, I was replying to Wrath, not you. And I just figured crossing the highway was high risk enough, so I didn't catch on that the turtle represented the "high risk". But hold on a second, you're arguing from the same stand point as Wrathbringer, but you call me out for "putting people into little boxes and slapping on a label" when Wrathbringer was the first one to respond to my post by referring to me as a "bleeding heart liberal"! What's up with that double standard?

[Methais]

Well, first of all, I was replying to Wrath, not you. And I just figured crossing the highway was high risk enough, so I didn't catch on that the turtle represented the "high risk".

You were replying to him...about my analogy (and me) and how it was so dehumanizing using a turtle instead of a person, etc.

Here, read it again:


How should I respond to that? By saying cold hearted right wing bastards do the exact opposite by making an analogy so impersonal by using a turtle's life as compared to a human's that the argument loses all value?

^



But hold on a second, you're arguing from the same stand point as Wrathbringer, but you call me out for "putting people into little boxes and slapping on a label" when Wrathbringer was the first one to respond to my post by referring to me as a "bleeding heart liberal"! What's up with that double standard?

So because WB called you a "bleeding heart liberal," that makes me a hypocrite over you slapping labels on people?

I'm going to need to see the math on this please.

[Vindicate]

"gloves are not required to halt the spread of coronavirus, because multiples places have done so without them. Quod erat demonstrandum."

Scenario:

You go off to your nearest gas station to get gas.

Back, who is infected doesn't know it yet, went to the same pump before you. He has a mask on - no gloves. Unfortunately, his car, his house, his steering wheel, his fingers (you see he coughed into his hands prior to putting on the mask on his way to the gas station) are rife with little viruses.

Back paid by credit card and that little keypad, needed his zip code and he dutifully punched in the numbers with that mask firmly in place.

Now you show up, pull in after he leaves. Give him a little wave and a nod as a fellow Mask wearer.

Before you know it, you are punching in your zip code.

This is where things can fork:

Something about you, tells me you carry some hand sanitizer in your car, so you quickly open your car door (now the door handle has some traces AND your credit card and your wallet) and you sanitize your hands (A) I hope its at least 60% alcohol B) I hope you also sanitized the bottle of hand sanitizer after use C) I hope you sanitized the little handle on the compartment you keep the hand sanitizer.)

Or like the rest of the population,

They did not sanitize. They got back in their car, removed their masks and drove home and eventually touched their hands to their mouth.

[Viekn]

You were replying to him...about my analogy (and me) and how it was so dehumanizing using a turtle instead of a person, etc.

Here, read it again:



^




So because WB called you a "bleeding heart liberal," that makes me a hypocrite over you slapping labels on people?

I'm going to need to see the math on this please.

I'm saying that you and WB are on the same side of the virus/mask/quarantine/whatever argument. WB slapped a label on me. I used a label in my response post as a counter point to WB's argument. But you're not calling out WB for slapping labels on people, you're just calling me out for doing it, and I didn't even slap any labels in my original post here. I just used it as a counter argument to WB's point.

[Methais]

I'm saying that you and WB are on the same side of the virus/mask/quarantine/whatever argument. WB slapped a label on me. I used a label in my response post as a counter point to WB's argument. But you're not calling out WB for slapping labels on people, you're just calling me out for doing it, and I didn't even slap any labels in my original post here. I just used it as a counter argument to WB's point.

Ok.

WB stop slapping labels on people. Along with anyone else that I might not have time to police.

Or else backtraced.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Rbgq5QNxvUI/hqdefault.jpg

That should take care of that.

Anyway back on topic, which is more selfish? Going out and living your life and suggesting that the small overall percentage high risk people stay at home, because even though it sucks that they're high risk, people still have bills to pay and mouths to feed?

Or...

Demand that the entire world grind to a halt because some high risk people feel like it should be up to everyone else to create conditions that make them feel (emphasis on feel and not be) safer going out in public when they shouldn't be anyway due to being high risk?

To keep it simple, we'll ignore the false sense of security that a lot of people get while wearing ineffective types of masks and thus making the problem even worse.

[Blazar]

"gloves are not required to halt the spread of coronavirus, because multiples places have done so without them. Quod erat demonstrandum."

Scenario:

You go off to your nearest gas station to get gas.

Back, who is infected doesn't know it yet, went to the same pump before you. He has a mask on - no gloves. Unfortunately, his car, his house, his steering wheel, his fingers (you see he coughed into his hands prior to putting on the mask on his way to the gas station) are rife with little viruses.

Back paid by credit card and that little keypad, needed his zip code and he dutifully punched in the numbers with that mask firmly in place.

Now you show up, pull in after he leaves. Give him a little wave and a nod as a fellow Mask wearer.

Before you know it, you are punching in your zip code.

This is where things can fork:

Something about you, tells me you carry some hand sanitizer in your car, so you quickly open your car door (now the door handle has some traces AND your credit card and your wallet) and you sanitize your hands (A) I hope its at least 60% alcohol B) I hope you also sanitized the bottle of hand sanitizer after use C) I hope you sanitized the little handle on the compartment you keep the hand sanitizer.)

Or like the rest of the population,

They did not sanitize. They got back in their car, removed their masks and drove home and eventually touched their hands to their mouth.

I carry a bottle of hand sanitizer in my cup holder in my car. Always have in fact, specifically for gas pumps since they are literally one of the dirtiest things you can touch. I sanitize before I touch the pump, then I use one hand to open my gas tank, then use the other to work the pump, clean hand to insert credit card (by the way, most things don't require a zip code anymore). Finish pumping gas, use the same hand to put up the pump that I used to grab the pump. I use my clean hand that touched my gas cap to then replace my gas cap and open my car door, and squirt some sanitizer on my dirty hand, and voila, clean hands, no traces anywhere. Smart people and some common sense can figure these things out pretty easily. It's certainly not rocket science. It cost me like $3 for the bottle of hand sanitizer back in March (almost out now), a slight adjustment in routine, and a few seconds each time to be smart and safe about touching things in public. It's so unbearable.

As far as what other people do, I always just assume they did the dumbest thing possible by thinking "What would ParkBandit do?".

[Back]

"gloves are not required to halt the spread of coronavirus, because multiples places have done so without them. Quod erat demonstrandum."

Scenario:

You go off to your nearest gas station to get gas.

Back, who is infected doesn't know it yet, went to the same pump before you. He has a mask on - no gloves. Unfortunately, his car, his house, his steering wheel, his fingers (you see he coughed into his hands prior to putting on the mask on his way to the gas station) are rife with little viruses.

Back paid by credit card and that little keypad, needed his zip code and he dutifully punched in the numbers with that mask firmly in place.

Now you show up, pull in after he leaves. Give him a little wave and a nod as a fellow Mask wearer.

Before you know it, you are punching in your zip code.

This is where things can fork:

Something about you, tells me you carry some hand sanitizer in your car, so you quickly open your car door (now the door handle has some traces AND your credit card and your wallet) and you sanitize your hands (A) I hope its at least 60% alcohol B) I hope you also sanitized the bottle of hand sanitizer after use C) I hope you sanitized the little handle on the compartment you keep the hand sanitizer.)

Or like the rest of the population,

They did not sanitize. They got back in their car, removed their masks and drove home and eventually touched their hands to their mouth.

You make a lot of assumptions. One of the first things I did back in March was go to the hardware store and buy masks, gloves, and eye protection. To this day I wear gloves, eyewear, and a mask when I go to any public space. Yeah, I'm the exception. No one has told me to wear gloves. The CDC does not even recommend it. But its no hardship on me so why not be a little more safe?

Sorry to ruin your little hypothetical with some reality.

[Parkbandit]

I carry a bottle of hand sanitizer in my cup holder in my car. Always have in fact, specifically for gas pumps since they are literally one of the dirtiest things you can touch. I sanitize before I touch the pump, then I use one hand to open my gas tank, then use the other to work the pump, clean hand to insert credit card (by the way, most things don't require a zip code anymore). Finish pumping gas, use the same hand to put up the pump that I used to grab the pump. I use my clean hand that touched my gas cap to then replace my gas cap and open my car door, and squirt some sanitizer on my dirty hand, and voila, clean hands, no traces anywhere. Smart people and some common sense can figure these things out pretty easily. It's certainly not rocket science. It cost me like $3 for the bottle of hand sanitizer back in March (almost out now), a slight adjustment in routine, and a few seconds each time to be smart and safe about touching things in public. It's so unbearable.

As far as what other people do, I always just assume they did the dumbest thing possible by thinking "What would ParkBandit do?".

You are such a sensitive, frail, little fella... aren't you?

You're boyfriend must be so happy you don't bring home germs from a gas pump.

[Parkbandit]

You make a lot of assumptions. One of the first things I did back in March was go to the hardware store and buy masks, gloves, and eye protection. To this day I wear gloves, eyewear, and a mask when I go to any public space. Yeah, I'm the exception. No one has told me to wear gloves. The CDC does not even recommend it. But its no hardship on me so why not be a little more safe?

Sorry to ruin your little hypothetical with some reality.

Good lord.....

Yes, thankfully, you certainly are the exception.

[caelric]

Good lord.....

Yes, thankfully, you certainly are the exception.

Back is indeed special. Very special.

[Blazar]

You are such a sensitive, frail, little fella... aren't you?

You're boyfriend must be so happy you don't bring home germs from a gas pump.

At least I know the difference between you're and your. And I am none of those things, but think what you want ya dumb old fuck. I just accept that you're a shitty, dumb person who thinks that calling someone gay is an insult. It bothers me exactly... none.

[Parkbandit]

At least I know the difference between you're and your. And I am none of those things, but think what you want ya dumb old fuck. I just accept that you're a shitty, dumb person who thinks that calling someone gay is an insult. It bothers me exactly... none.

Wait, your straight?

[Wrathbringer]

Well, first of all, I was replying to Wrath, not you. And I just figured crossing the highway was high risk enough, so I didn't catch on that the turtle represented the "high risk". But hold on a second, you're arguing from the same stand point as Wrathbringer, but you call me out for "putting people into little boxes and slapping on a label" when Wrathbringer was the first one to respond to my post by referring to me as a "bleeding heart liberal"! What's up with that double standard?

No one referred to you as a bleeding heart liberal. I simply stated that the argument you used was one that I see bleeding heart liberals make. Notice you took no issue with the argument or facts presented, but rather only with your perceived slight that wasn't meant as a slight to you.

[Neveragain]

I carry a bottle of hand sanitizer in my cup holder in my car. Always have in fact, specifically for gas pumps since they are literally one of the dirtiest things you can touch. I sanitize before I touch the pump, then I use one hand to open my gas tank, then use the other to work the pump, clean hand to insert credit card (by the way, most things don't require a zip code anymore). Finish pumping gas, use the same hand to put up the pump that I used to grab the pump. I use my clean hand that touched my gas cap to then replace my gas cap and open my car door, and squirt some sanitizer on my dirty hand, and voila, clean hands, no traces anywhere. Smart people and some common sense can figure these things out pretty easily. It's certainly not rocket science. It cost me like $3 for the bottle of hand sanitizer back in March (almost out now), a slight adjustment in routine, and a few seconds each time to be smart and safe about touching things in public. It's so unbearable.

As far as what other people do, I always just assume they did the dumbest thing possible by thinking "What would ParkBandit do?".

https://media4.giphy.com/media/jUwpNzg9IcyrK/200.gif

[Wrathbringer]

You make a lot of assumptions. One of the first things I did back in March was go to the hardware store and buy masks, gloves, and eye protection. To this day I wear gloves, eyewear, and a mask when I go to any public space. Yeah, I'm the exception. No one has told me to wear gloves. The CDC does not even recommend it. But its no hardship on me so why not be a little more safe?

Sorry to ruin your little hypothetical with some reality.

lolol "no one has told me to wear gloves". As if we needed any further proof that you're incapable of thinking for yourself. LOL at you being that guy with all the protective gear when you aren't even at risk. You bought all of that to protect others, right? :lol:

[Parkbandit]

lolol "no one has told me to wear gloves". As if we needed any further proof that you're incapable of thinking for yourself. LOL at you being that guy with all the protective gear when you aren't even at risk. You bought all of that to protect others, right? :lol:

Here's a pic of Backlash going to the store

https://previews.123rf.com/images/endomedion/endomedion1701/endomedion170100005/70368128-scientist-in-coveralls-goggles-mask-and-blue-gloves-holding-blank-whiteboard-with-space-for-copy.jpg

[Back]

lolol "no one has told me to wear gloves". As if we needed any further proof that you're incapable of thinking for yourself. LOL at you being that guy with all the protective gear when you aren't even at risk. You bought all of that to protect others, right? :lol:

Actually, no. To protect myself and my family. Back then we had no idea what was going to happen. I just still do it because I'm used to it, its no hardship, and nothing is too much to protect myself, family, friends, and coworkers. Laugh it up. Its not like anyone gives a shit.

If its all a waste of time and effort, oh fucking well. Time and effort well wasted. Hopefully we get through thus by Feb one way or another and we can get back to normal and you can cry about something else.

[Parkbandit]

Actually, no. To protect myself and my family. Back then we had no idea what was going to happen. I just still do it because I'm used to it, its no hardship, and nothing is too much to protect myself, family, friends, and coworkers. Laugh it up. Its not like anyone gives a shit.

If its all a waste of time and effort, oh fucking well. Time and effort well wasted. Hopefully we get through thus by Feb one way or another and we can get back to normal and you can cry about something else.

https://www.nwprogressive.org/weblog/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/NOV19-We-Are-Laughing-Eyman.gif

[Methais]

I carry a bottle of hand sanitizer in my cup holder in my car. Always have in fact, specifically for gas pumps since they are literally one of the dirtiest things you can touch. I sanitize before I touch the pump, then I use one hand to open my gas tank, then use the other to work the pump, clean hand to insert credit card (by the way, most things don't require a zip code anymore). Finish pumping gas, use the same hand to put up the pump that I used to grab the pump. I use my clean hand that touched my gas cap to then replace my gas cap and open my car door, and squirt some sanitizer on my dirty hand, and voila, clean hands, no traces anywhere. Smart people and some common sense can figure these things out pretty easily. It's certainly not rocket science. It cost me like $3 for the bottle of hand sanitizer back in March (almost out now), a slight adjustment in routine, and a few seconds each time to be smart and safe about touching things in public. It's so unbearable.

As far as what other people do, I always just assume they did the dumbest thing possible by thinking "What would ParkBandit do?".

How do you know that the outside of the bottle of hand sanitizer isn't dirty?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIFLzWb5Hws

[Methais]

You make a lot of assumptions. One of the first things I did back in March was go to the hardware store and buy masks, gloves, and eye protection. To this day I wear gloves, eyewear, and a mask when I go to any public space. Yeah, I'm the exception. No one has told me to wear gloves. The CDC does not even recommend it. But its no hardship on me so why not be a little more safe?

Sorry to ruin your little hypothetical with some reality.

Pics or it didn't happen.

This shit better match your scarf or Latrin's week is going to be fucking ruined.

[Methais]

Here's a pic of Backlash going to the store

https://previews.123rf.com/images/endomedion/endomedion1701/endomedion170100005/70368128-scientist-in-coveralls-goggles-mask-and-blue-gloves-holding-blank-whiteboard-with-space-for-copy.jpg

No scarf, this is invalid.

https://assets.simpleviewinc.com/simpleview/image/fetch/c_fill,h_375,q_75,w_467/https://res.cloudinary.com/simpleview/image/upload/v1483662368/clients/spokane/christmas_story_snowsuit_gif_fa2e0df9-eadd-413d-b52f-52f5b4e35d6d.jpg

[Methais]

Actually, no. To protect myself and my family. Back then we had no idea what was going to happen. I just still do it because I'm used to it, its no hardship, and nothing is too much to protect myself, family, friends, and coworkers.

Why are you stopping there then instead of going full hazmat?

Nothing is too much.

Quit being a slacker.

Why do you hate yourself, your family, friends, and coworkers?

[Back]

Hur hur derp. Haven't you learned anything from zombie movies? After Trump was elected I figure anything can happen. We're still in prime zombie breakout territory. Be safe out there.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-07-2015/bAzVZD.gif

[Methais]

Hur hur derp.

Most honest Backlash post ever.

[Parkbandit]

Hur hur derp. Haven't you learned anything from zombie movies? After Trump was elected I figure anything can happen. We're still in prime zombie breakout territory. Be safe out there.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-07-2015/bAzVZD.gif

You're safe... zombies eat brains.. they will walk right by you.

[Latrinsorm]

"gloves are not required to halt the spread of coronavirus, because multiples places have done so without them. Quod erat demonstrandum."

Scenario:

You go off to your nearest gas station to get gas.

Back, who is infected doesn't know it yet, went to the same pump before you. He has a mask on - no gloves. Unfortunately, his car, his house, his steering wheel, his fingers (you see he coughed into his hands prior to putting on the mask on his way to the gas station) are rife with little viruses.

Back paid by credit card and that little keypad, needed his zip code and he dutifully punched in the numbers with that mask firmly in place.

Now you show up, pull in after he leaves. Give him a little wave and a nod as a fellow Mask wearer.

Before you know it, you are punching in your zip code.

This is where things can fork:

Something about you, tells me you carry some hand sanitizer in your car, so you quickly open your car door (now the door handle has some traces AND your credit card and your wallet) and you sanitize your hands (A) I hope its at least 60% alcohol B) I hope you also sanitized the bottle of hand sanitizer after use C) I hope you sanitized the little handle on the compartment you keep the hand sanitizer.)

Or like the rest of the population,

They did not sanitize. They got back in their car, removed their masks and drove home and eventually touched their hands to their mouth.

All very logical.

And yet your conclusion is false, which we know because multiple countries have driven the spread to 0 without widespread use of gloves.

You keep falling into the same trap - when you make a logically valid argument, the conclusion will necessarily be true IF AND ONLY IF all the premises are true, and logic can never tell you whether a given premise is true or false.

This is why people put such a high premium on being "logical" (c.f. this thread), because it makes it extraordinarily easy to back up any given conclusion you already believe without doing any work.

The easy answer or the correct answer, it's still your call.

[Latrinsorm]

Anyway back on topic, which is more selfish? Going out and living your life and suggesting that the small overall percentage high risk people stay at home, because even though it sucks that they're high risk, people still have bills to pay and mouths to feed?

Or...

Demand that the entire world grind to a halt because some high risk people feel like it should be up to everyone else to create conditions that make them feel (emphasis on feel and not be) safer going out in public when they shouldn't be anyway due to being high risk?

To keep it simple, we'll ignore the false sense of security that a lot of people get while wearing ineffective types of masks and thus making the problem even worse.

The topic of this thread was never "selfish".

You have been reported.

[Methais]

The topic of this thread was never "selfish".

The intended recipient of that post was never "Latrinsorm".


You have been reported.

Oh yeah, to who?

WHO HAVE YOU REPORTED ME TO LATRIN?!!?!?!?!?!?!

[Latrinsorm]

The intended recipient of that post was never "Latrinsorm".



Oh yeah, to who?

WHO HAVE YOU REPORTED ME TO LATRIN?!!?!?!?!?!?!

*whom

and as sylvester stallone said in his famous 1900s biopic...

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GlaringFarflungInganue-size_restricted.gif

I AM THE TOPIC

[Methais]

*whom

and as sylvester stallone said in his famous 1900s biopic...

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GlaringFarflungInganue-size_restricted.gif

I AM THE TOPIC

TO WHOM ARE YOU REPORTING ME, LATRIN!?!?!?!?!e?e?!e?DQ/Fq?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RraPWpBMKU

[Back]

No one is intentionally going out while contagious with covid and coughing on at risk people in order to kill them, you tard. Requiring 998 healthy people to wear a mask 24/7 in public in a vain attempt to save two nursing home patients dying anyway is a dick move. Requiring everyone's businesses to close because of those same two people is a dick move. Taking away everyone's jobs for the same two people out of a thousand is a dick move. Closing schools, which are proven to not be hotspots due to most being asymptomatic, because of two kids who can't do in person learning, is a dick move. People are going to die. It isn't anyone's fault. It's a virus; an act of nature, and it isn't serious. This isn't the bubonic plague, as much as you wish it were.

Its in everyone's best interest to do what they can to mitigate the spread so that hospitals and healthcare workers are not drowned by a tidal wave of hospitalizations. When they get flooded other people who have issues can't get help either. If there is another major event that requires hospitals and healthcare workers we're fucked.

The government needs to send out financial relief to everyone and like yesterday. Back in Feb or Mar Congress dropped $3 trillion on Wall Street without question. They got one round of relief out for the rest of the country which was great. But more is needed right now.

Treating this like a flu is a tremendous mistake. We all need to pull together to get through this together.