OOG GM Intervention

[StrayRogue]

Now, alot of the flak GM's often get is favourtism in this or that quest, etc, which I don't really care about. I do agree with the view that GS is cliche city, and am happy to say I avoid this sad fucks to the best of my ability while still being able to RP at the best of my ability, hunt, progress and have fun.

Now recently, talking to a number of people, I have discovered instances of GM's granting OOG friends, boons, information and other things to their friends IG counterparts. Now this is not suprising. I too grant my better (or those who butter me up) D&D players with better stuff.

However, I feel this should NOT take place in game. Some people know alot of GMs and never use their friendship for their own gains. Some do.

Discuss.

[Bestatte]

This is an issue that spans the world of muds. Every game strives for integrity, and every game fails. There is -always- OOG favoritism. It can't be avoided.

However:

In a game where you are PAYING to play, the senior staff should be above reproach, and if caught offering favors or info to friends, should be removed from the staff immediately, no questions, no ifs ands or buts.

Problem is, some of the people higher than the senior staff are doing it too. So there exists no checks and balances, and you're back to square one.

My advice, if it bothers you enough, is to either a) suck up to a GM and get OOG favors yourself, or b) find a game that suits your needs that you don't have to dish out money to watch other people get favors. At least it won't cost you anything to get shafted, where in pay-to-play games it does.

[Ilvane]

I'm sure it must be really difficult for those who went from being prominant players to GMs to not have favorites.

I really don't think it's a rampant as it is made out to be though. GM's are human, it's bound to happen every so often.

However, I don't believe that information to get to merchants or things like that is something that should be done..

Many of my old roleplaying friends are currently GM's, and I rarely hear a thing!! :-P

-A

[HarmNone]

I think this problem was far more wide-spread a number of years ago. It caused many a stink. Now, there are checks and balances in place. Do some GMs slip through a crack to do things that should not be done? Probably. However, I do not believe it is near the problem that it once was.

HarmNone

[SpunGirl]

I have more of an issue with the sense of entitlement some GMs create when they tell "secrets" to certain players. The reaction and idiocy this causes isn't necessarily the fault of the GMs, but you'd think they'd just try avoid it all together.

I've seen it happen where a person becomes buddies with GMs, tells them things that this person now considers their personal priviledge to know, and then that person will FLIP OUT when other people know the same thing.

I know it's lame, but I've seen it happen more than once. People place too high of a value on knowing certain secrets and they think it makes them part of some exclusive little club. I don't know how this could be fixed, but it's lame all the same.

-K

[HarmNone]

I have experienced people who "claim" to know all kinds of things that, without their knowledge, are known by a good number of Elanthians. I have experienced people who "claim" to know GM "secrets". A good deal of the time the former become quite incensed when they find out that their little "secret" is common knowledge, and the latter are just talking through their arses.

As I said, there are probably some cases when GMs give away information that they should not be telling, but for the most part, I believe things are vastly better than they used to be...say 5 years ago.

HarmNone remembers things

[Betheny]

Alternately, I think that may GM's are accused of giving favors where none are given. I don't think it's fair to label them all as people who do this sort of thing.

I think the problem lies less with the GameMasters, and more with those who expect and solicit favors from the staff that they know.

[StrayRogue]

I think they should just adhere to the rules of their contracts and act like professionals. Me and you both know that they do do this sort of thing Maimara.

[Betheny]

This is very true. Even in premium, not all the alterers flag the people they work on for the 'four month' rule. As someone who played for almost two years and never once got picked for an alter (nevermind that I showed up to every one that I cou ld, and was premium for a year of that) I think it'd be rather nice if the alterers started out with a few of those who had never recieved them before.

But what would happen if this did happen? People would create accounts just to get them. :D

GM's are to blame for acts given out of favor for friends and acquaintances. Players are to blame for accepting these, and soliciting them.

[Drew2]

Originally posted by Maimara
Alternately, I think that may GM's are accused of giving favors where none are given. I don't think it's fair to label them all as people who do this sort of thing.

I think the problem lies less with the GameMasters, and more with those who expect and solicit favors from the staff that they know.

I think that's true. I know someone who is VERY close friends with several of the GM's. Does she ever expect anything from them? No. Sometimes they'll play with her by giving her personal messaging related to something she's RPing, but they don't give her handouts and they never pay her any special attention. And besides, that messaging thing is quite common. I've had it happen to me, I know others that have it happen to them... it's nothing special.

I don't think there's much (if any) favortism. I think it stemmed from people not getting their way.

[Betheny]

I wouldn't call an RP interaction favoritism. I'd call favoritism something tangible (so to speak). Like an item, an alter, or experience, spells. Anything that actually affects gameplay or exists that your character can touch.

[StrayRogue]

Double standards their Maim?

[Trinitis]

you know, over the past year and a half or so..I've become great friends with GM Ozias..and you know what I get out of him?

Oz : Hey, hows it going?
Me : Not bad, you?
Oz : Doin great, just grading some papers.
Me : Cool cool, how are things on the home front?
Oz : Oh great, we are settling in, the move was hard but we are doin great.
Me : Great to hear, I hope the new house goes well for you.
Oz : Yeh, I just finished setting up my office in the house, so starting to get back to normal, I might even find time to take a look at all my GM work thats been stacking up!
Me : Heh, if you need any help you let me know..and teach me GSL..and get me a GM title ::nod::
Oz : Hehehe, sure thing. :-P

And so on and so on. GM's are people..Ozias is great, and by far the nicest person of "power" I've ever known in GS.

-Adredrin

Khaladon would pull a close secend, but he hits me with lightning bolts for stealing his cookies, so he don't get any slice of that pie.

[Betheny]

Generally if I happen to talk to an 'authority' figure I try to keep it on a personal level unless I've got a question or something. Or if I'm pissed off and need to rant. But generally I have other ways of expressing disgust.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Maimara I think it'd be rather nice if the alterers started out with a few of those who had never recieved them before.

But what would happen if this did happen? People would create accounts just to get them. :D

GM's are to blame for acts given out of favor for friends and acquaintances. Players are to blame for accepting these, and soliciting them.

This points out the main problem, as far as I am concerned. There are many checks and balances in place today that were not in place before. However, the current predominance of players will do whatever is necessary to skirt the rules to get what they want. No matter what procedures are put in place in an effort to make things fair to everyone, there always seem to be those who will cheat. They ruin things for everyone else.:mad:

HarmNone dislikes this Me Me Me crap

[Crazed Sylvan]

I think that the overall widespread "favoritism" isn't as bad as it used to be...

However, the obvious occurances of it has increased lately. It's not happening as often, but when it does it's blatantly obvious it's happening.

[Betheny]

So wouldn't that sort of thing be considered bug abuse, and be punishable by a nasty lockout? :?:

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Crazed Sylvan
I think that the overall widespread "favoritism" isn't as bad as it used to be...

However, the obvious occurances of it has increased lately. It's not happening as often, but when it does it's blatantly obvious it's happening.

If you are sure this has happened...and I mean SURE...when you see Khaladon or one of the other Senior GMs on line, let them know. To do such things is grounds for immediate dismissal.

HarmNone

[Caramia]

Now recently, talking to a number of people, I have discovered instances of GM's granting OOG friends, boons, information and other things to their friends IG counterparts. Now this is not suprising. I too grant my better (or those who butter me up) D&D players with better stuff.

Every time someone says this, they never have the evidence to back it up. Name names, cite incidences. Prove it. Or take it to someone who can do something about it instead of whining here about some vague story you were told, that you don't even know if it's true or if someone lying to you.

Some people just like to harp on and on about the GMs that were dirty in the past, too.

[Tsa`ah]

There have been several cases of GMs passing items made for their own characters on to friends.

This is the prime reason there is an uproar when such an item is sold for 10s of millions only to have the buyer get the shaft when the item is nerfed.

I haven't heard a case like that in a few months, but they do pop up. Simu's own policy is not to disclose any information in regards to punishment or corrective action. Thus we seldom hear a specific GM mentioned.

[Caramia]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
There have been several cases of GMs passing items made for their own characters on to friends.

This is the prime reason there is an uproar when such an item is sold for 10s of millions only to have the buyer get the shaft when the item is nerfed.

I haven't heard a case like that in a few months, but they do pop up. Simu's own policy is not to disclose any information in regards to punishment or corrective action. Thus we seldom hear a specific GM mentioned.

Still only heresay.

Where are the names of the GMs? Where are the names of their friends? Nice friends they are, too, if they told you what their GM friends did! What were the items?

Several months? Probably more like several years. Is anyone else tired of this old bone being brought back for more chewing on, time and time again, lacking any concrete evidence or information?

So you know someone. Know what? So does everyone else if you read these posts.

[Vesi]

I would estimate that 95% of the people I know are GMs was told to me by one of their friends and said that it was a 'secret'. Then why are they telling me? I never repeat names because it could be true or not. The other 5% (my stats could be off a bit) were learned through other means.

Personally, if a friend becomes a GM, I don't want to even know.

Vesi

P.S. I was only told names, nothing about favoritism.

[Tsa`ah]

Only hearsay because you deem it so. It makes no difference to me if you don't believe things like this happen. I have seen uber items handed off and summarily nerfed at point of sale.

I personally wouldn't care if 100 GMs a week did this. I don't actively seek out these items or GMs to befriend for them. I do care that some of these items get out unaltered and wreck havoc on hunting areas I tend to frequent.

Do I think it is a rampant problem? Absolutely not. I do feel it is a problem that Simu seemingly refuses to address. I think as a company Simu has given itself plenty of rope to make a noose with.

I don't think GMs should be able to make items for their own characters. I don't think GMs should receive any perks for their own characters at all. I feel there should be an attached department to the QC team that monitors the happenings before, during, and after Merchant events. Log who is hanging around an area they probably never frequent. Monitor who receives service and monitor what happens to the items after they are made. These logs should be compared from time to time to see if any player is receiving perks that normally would not.

Better yet, we have in game rules pertaining to merchants. Make sure these are implemented at each and every merchant. Any merchant that doesn't follow the guidelines is automatically suspect to me. No matter how nice and personable they are.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
There have been several cases of GMs passing items made for their own characters on to friends.

This is the prime reason there is an uproar when such an item is sold for 10s of millions only to have the buyer get the shaft when the item is nerfed.

I haven't heard a case like that in a few months, but they do pop up. Simu's own policy is not to disclose any information in regards to punishment or corrective action. Thus we seldom hear a specific GM mentioned.

I would guess that it has been a looong time since something like that happened for real. It may have happened years ago and the item is just now surfacing, but I really doubt there have been any recent incidents (like in the last year or so).

HarmNone

[Tsa`ah]

Actually hun, I was running through OTF earlier this week and came across a guy using a nice looking axe. While I didn't get wind of the enchant, it was, I assume, a self mana call wind/spirit strike weapon. It was completely laden with scripts that the user was more than happy to demonstrate. Very nice of him considering he knocked me down with it twice before he even noticed me.

I asked him what merchant crafted such an item and he whispers, very considerate, his GM friend gave it to him the week prior.

He could be full of it, he could have purchased the weapon and just wanted to seem uber. I will say that I have never heard of an axe with those properties before hand.

[HarmNone]

My guess is, he is blowing gas. However, if I had any doubts, I would talk to Khaladon or one of the other senior GMs and tell the GM exactly what I saw, who had it, and what that person said. They take this stuff very seriously these days.

HarmNone

[Tsa`ah]

Oh I did a report on it. A reduxed warrior using call wind and spirit strike unimpeded can be a nasty thing. I hope he was trying to pound sand, but my gut says no.

An item able to cast two separate, yet powerful, spells, and loaded to the wazoo with scripts just screams violation.

I can only hope it is an item that escaped nerfing and is years old.

[HarmNone]

Years old would be my guess, and my hope. That old crap needed to stop, and I know it is strongly frowned upon. I am glad you reported it.

HarmNone does not like cheaters

[Betheny]

My suspicion would be something like this:

A GM giving away uber-items might be a GM on the way out. Because if a GM was planning on continuing working for Simutronics, I would hope such an act would end in termination.

[Warriorbird]

I think a lot of "favoritism" is probably a bunch of GMs tweaking their own personal items and keeping them on characters folks don't associate with them. I know from experience with several friends on DR staff that GMs are allowed to do that there...and I also know that many of the GMs have MANY more characters than players think they do. Players have a tendency to associate GMs with the character they played most BEFORE they were a GM. I know in some cases GMs stick to just their original character in GS, but at least from my knowledge of DR circumstances, many of them play dramatically different characters after they make the shift. Some of those characters probably end up with powerful items in Gemstone as well. I doubt policy is much different.

[Edited on 9-20-2003 by Warriorbird]

[Caramia]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
I asked him what merchant crafted such an item and he whispers, very considerate, his GM friend gave it to him the week prior.

And I'm still going to call this bunk until folks start naming names, Tsa'ah. This kind of speculation does nothing to confirm this activity happens. Why do people whine about stuff like this, and then do absolutely nothing to help stop it? Could it be because they want a little GM goodie themselves and they think telling on someone will lessen their chances?

There are weapons out there like that. There aren't many, they were legally made and sold or auctioned.

That's exactly the type of item that if it was illegally made and being used or shown off, it would be quickly discovered and taken away when people heard about it. So your new pal there would be very, very stupid to talk about, even in whispers.

Any GMs reading this board? Now all you have to do is watch the OTF area for that uber-special weapon!

[theotherjohn]

its pretty easy to find out who a lot of the GMs are.

just get all the Simucon pictures and compare the new name tags to the old ones.

[Artha]

GMs aren't allowed to give away uber items. Chances are, even if it was one on the way out, they'd find out who got what and take it away.

[peam]

Wasn't Dartaghan well known for giving out items to people under his GM persona?

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
Actually hun, I was running through OTF earlier this week and came across a guy using a nice looking axe. While I didn't get wind of the enchant, it was, I assume, a self mana call wind/spirit strike weapon. It was completely laden with scripts that the user was more than happy to demonstrate. Very nice of him considering he knocked me down with it twice before he even noticed me.

I asked him what merchant crafted such an item and he whispers, very considerate, his GM friend gave it to him the week prior.

He could be full of it, he could have purchased the weapon and just wanted to seem uber. I will say that I have never heard of an axe with those properties before hand.

I wouldn't take anything someone says at face value... especially since you don't know him.

There are many items that do not require MIU to use still... doesn't mean it was created by a GM for a friend.

[HarmNone]

Originally posted by peam
Wasn't Dartaghan well known for giving out items to people under his GM persona?

Years ago, in Dartaghan's time, this did happen. However, things are much different now and such activities are very much frowned upon. It can be cause for dismissal if a GM is caught doing it.

HarmNone

[Artha]

I asked him what merchant crafted such an item and he whispers, very considerate, his GM friend gave it to him the week prior.

Report it, and write a letter to Melissa.

[HarmNone]

GMs can also "hear" whispers, so if he whispered about the item, that whisper is on record.

HarmNone

[Caramia]

Originally posted by peam
Wasn't Dartaghan well known for giving out items to people under his GM persona?

Dartaghan hasn't been a GM for more than 5 years, and his character was sold probably soon after. A lot of the items he owned and sold off or gave to friends were "nerfed" or recollected and fixed. You can bet that hasn't been allowed to happen again!

Past history. Next accusation?

[Warriorbird]

The Communists are fluoridating the water in Gemstone, introducing impurities into American vital fluids.