Enchanting

[Fengus]

Its been supposed that Wizard circle counts for 1 while MjE counts for .5. Its likely level counts for at least 1 as well, everything else falls below that.

My guess for the stats is that one is bonus/2, and another is bonus/4. The third would either be pure bonus, or added to one of those groups.


Finally I would guess that the base requirement and the base training would allow you a moderate success at a base major project. Meaning at level 25 with 25 Wizard spells and 25 MjE spells and 25 bonuses in the 3 stats, and maybe 25 ranks in all the other reqisite skills would give you 50%-99% chance of success on a 5x project.

[FinisWolf]

And what has worked consistantly for my train 25 wizard with no 5X failures is:

2X AS-MIU
1X HP-Control
20 MinE 20 MjE 25 Wiz
(rest is PT and climb/swim, etc.)

Finiswolf

[Meges]

Here's a little more information for those who were not aware of this link:

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/enchant_notes.asp

Meges, quite the enchanting paladin

[StrayRogue]

So by that count, it would be difficult to do a 6x at level 25?

[Stunseed]

I would think so, Stray. I thought I was cutting close when I had 35 ranks in Wizard, to do 6x, anyways. Now my Wizard has 47, and by the time I get him to begin his first 7x, he'll have 50.

[StrayRogue]

Ah thanks. Just nice to prove X wrong again.

[Xcalibur]

Now my Wizard has 47, and by the time I get him to begin his first 7x, he'll have 50.


How many 900 circle can a level 25 mage can have?

an hint: add 2 to the level and tripple that number.

You like proving things in your head, and stop making me that important, you're always speaking of me.

[Edited on 6-4-05 by Xcalibur]

[StrayRogue]

We've already posted the info and proved 7x is impossible at 25 X. Give it up. Or go read about how well versed you are in mechanics in the Daggers thread.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Xcalibur
Now my Wizard has 47, and by the time I get him to begin his first 7x, he'll have 50.


How many 900 circle can a level 25 mage can have?

an hint: add 2 to the level and tripple that number.

You like proving things in your head, and stop making me that important, you're always speaking of me.

[Edited on 6-4-05 by Xcalibur]

You forget that LEVEL, and MjE is also a BIG factor.

[Xcalibur]

There was nothing proved, only speculation with some random numbers.

A character at level 25 has a maximum potentiel of 81 spell known.

That "simulate" being 40 in most cases, depending where you put those spells.

IF 900 circle is worth one point and MJE is worth .5, a low level wanting to enchant SHOULD put his spared points in weapon, duh.

p.s. You like proving things in your head, and stop making me that important, you're always speaking of me.

[Edited on 6-4-05 by Xcalibur]

[StrayRogue]

Come on X. Prove it, and then you'll get some semblance of respect.

You've not even enchanted in GS4.
You've not read the documentation, as your little Daggers fiasco proved.
You have no evidence real or otherwise to base your claims off.

Secondly I'd love to see you create a plan for a wizard who is 2x in every Enchanting related skill and 3x in spells.

[Xcalibur]

You said it was proven as level 25 was unable to make a 7X project.

I say you are speculating, like when you don't know what else to do and then you try your luck.

You will NEVER get any of my character (s) name (s), level (s).

My little dagger fiasco isn't a fiasco, it's totally right with a few exceptions (most of them are already maxed out).

Is a level 25 a good level to enchant that high?
Answer is no
Is it possible to do so with some risks of failure?
Answer is yes
Would I and the people I know do that kind of risk?
Answer is no

p.s. I want nothing of you, including your respect.

[StrayRogue]

So you have no proof of it, nor can or will you. Ok. Nice job of ignoring me by the way.

Readers, I suggest you look at the FACTs and not the speculations of a dimwit who has already proven he knows fuck all about the mechanics of a game he'd claim never to play.

If you're still unsure, read this http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=13775

[Xcalibur]

You need to know the definition of a FACT vs of SPECULATIONS or unproved claim.

Thanks for the ignoring comment, I'm trying a bit more and it seems to work just fine.

p.s. a level 25 can enchant like a level 45 if stats/skills are put correctly.

Viable? No, faisable? yes.

[StrayRogue]

Prove it. Then it will be fact, not the speculation of someone who has never tried enchanting GS4.

[Xcalibur]

You have given, up to date, NO FACT AT ALL IN EITHER FORM.

:bashing:

Any skills/stats crusher can easily see what I'm saying and can easily figure it out.

Concentrate a bit, I know you could see it too.

[StrayRogue]

The only fact I've given is that the youngest recorded 7x enchant was with a level 32 wizard. Even then he'd fumbled it a few times.

Another fact is the contradiction in regards to a prime factor in enchanting, LEVEL, something you seem to be ignoring.

But then, the above is common knowledge. "I know its possible or I have friends who can do it" means shit.

[Stunseed]

< a level 25 can enchant like a level 45 >

You're right, X. However, provided level is a factor, and since 25 does NOT equal 45, something isn't going to equal up.

This was the original idea for enchanting, may or may not be realistic. Under the idea of 1x'ing MjE and Wiz circles, using the table I'll crudely make blow never failed ( never ) for me.

MjE Wiz MIU AS

25 25 40 40 = 4x enchant
30 30 50 50 = 5x enchant
40 40 60 60 = 6x enchant
50 50 75 75 = 7x enchant

Since then, other factors have been posted. However, if you're looking for fail-safe ( with the exception of the 5% factor ), that's the formula I'd use.

[StrayRogue]

Logic doesn't work with him Stun.

[Xcalibur]

Originally posted by Stunseed

MjE Wiz MIU AS

25 25 40 40 = 4x enchant
30 30 50 50 = 5x enchant
40 40 60 60 = 6x enchant
50 50 75 75 = 7x enchant



With your table, I would say 6X enchant is quite possible for a level 25 but I wouldn't do it still.

But the debate at hand is 7X and with your table, the 25 would be WAY far from the targets.

Way... not that much, lacking around 10 spells and 20 miu and as...

so if with your table it's an automatic success (more than 90% rate of success), then by lacking just a few points, 7X should be something possible, yet dangerous.

I don't say to anyone to do i t at 25, it's like trying to date a hot girl while you aren't shaved/washed since 4 days.

But hey, you still have chances to succeed!:cool:

[Edited on 6-4-05 by Xcalibur]

[Stunseed]

< Under the idea of 1x'ing MjE and Wiz circles >

Which takes into account the level factor. It CAN be done earlier, 100% assurance, never. In my personal opinion ( which you may or may not credit, but I've been enchanting for a while ), at level 25, I don't think I could assure 6x without a chance of failure, let alone 7x.

[StrayRogue]

speculator

n 1: someone who makes conjectures without knowing the facts

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
So by that count, it would be difficult to do a 6x at level 25?

My train 25 has done 3 sucessful 6X's, but I sure as hell will not risk doing someone else's item, because I know that I may see catastrophic failure. The three that I did was simply to test.

My mid-thirties wizard does 6X publicly, and only 7x for myself... doubt that helps alot, but basically, I will not do 7x for the public till I hit 40 to 45 with this wizard.

I just do not want to screw up someones item! So I work on the cautious side publically.

Finiswolf

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Secondly I'd love to see you create a plan for a wizard who is 2x in every Enchanting related skill and 3x in spells.

Impossible.

[Ryenn]

You all are hysterical.

[Meges]

Who has a better chance of success on a 7x enchant, my wizard below, or a level 25 wizard who is totally and fully trained in ALL skills, which is impossible, but in theory?

Race: Half-Elf Profession: Wizard (not shown)
Gender: Male Age: 99 Expr: 7409701 Level: 98
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (25) ... 100 (25)
Constitution (CON): 91 (20) ... 91 (20)
Dexterity (DEX): 99 (29) ... 99 (29)
Agility (AGI): 99 (34) ... 99 (34)
Discipline (DIS): 99 (19) ... 99 (19)
Aura (AUR): 99 (24) ... 99 (24)
Logic (LOG): 99 (24) ... 99 (24)
Intuition (INT): 99 (24) ... 99 (24)
Wisdom (WIS): 99 (24) ... 99 (24)
Influence (INF): 84 (22) ... 84 (22)
Mana: 336 Silver: 0

(at level 98), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 30 6
Shield Use.........................| 150 50
Edged Weapons......................| 200 100
Physical Fitness...................| 96 22
Arcane Symbols.....................| 300 200
Magic Item Use.....................| 300 200
Spell Aiming.......................| 300 200
Harness Power......................| 234 134
Elemental Mana Control.............| 120 30
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 120 30
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 120 30
Perception.........................| 70 15
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 105 25

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 106

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 74

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 71
Training Points: 121 Phy 0 Mnt (2374 Phy converted to Mnt)

Xcalibur, why don't you just shut up and stop being so damn stupid? You have been repeatedly pwnd over and over by MANY people who have pointed out how uninformed you are and how your dissemination of misinformation has also missed the mark.

If you shut up and stop posting, you might have a little more extra time on your hands where you could learn how to write with a little more style in the grammar department. I'm not asking that you become an English major or anything, but at least use spell and grammar check so you don't appear to be the total illiterate that you are. I sincerely hope your children receive a better education than you have demonstrated here on these boards.

Love,

Meges

[FinisWolf]

:loveu: Ooooo Meges .... :loveu:

...You are so my hero!

LOL

Glad to see I am not the only one completely tired of this back and forth between X and some other. It's boring, and irritating.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
============================================

~Why's~

6 ranks of armor?

50 ranks of shield?

100 ranks of OHE?

Stop at 134 ranks of HP?

I guess I am basically asking why you made the choices you made. I am the inquisitive sort, so I hope you don't mind saying, you have seen very willing thus far.

Respectfully,

Finiswolf

[Stunseed]

I think it's a pretty sound move. My Wizard is trained OHE/Shield for DS purposes as well, though I'm not sure why the 1.33x in HP. Oh, and my Wizard's got 15 ranks of armor, for doubles.

[Tsunami]

I've got the simu sight, and copied and pasted the info you people put up here. Does anyone have any really good player sites that explain enchanting in detail?

Thanks in advance :roll:

[Meges]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
~Why's~

6 ranks of armor?

50 ranks of shield?

100 ranks of OHE?

Stop at 134 ranks of HP?

I guess I am basically asking why you made the choices you made. I am the inquisitive sort, so I hope you don't mind saying, you have seen very willing thus far.

Respectfully,

Finiswolf

The armor training is for the hindrance of wearing very heavily crit padded reinforced leather. 2% hindrance is enough as it is. I used doubles for awhile, but that 4% got really annoying and 15 ranks in armor is not my idea of wisely spending my points. I'd rather spend the 126 PTPs somewhere else. While it is rare, I do occasionally get into a bad situation while hunting. This is where this armor training, stone skin and other factors come into play for saving me.

The shield training is for using a medium, unconverted towershield and .5x is a nice, eye-pleasing number; at least to me. .5x gives me enough bolt DS and I block attacks as well. Also, not being fully trained frees up a few points to place elsewhere.

The edged weapon training is for swinging the weapon occasionally, parrying a lot, and I prefer the DS of weapon/shield versus a runestaff that can be disarmed and as a consequence totally negate any and all DS gained by something held. Also, 410+506+a little AS does wonders on constructs. Personally, I hate runestaves and while my bolt DS would be a lot higher, my physical DS would suffer considerably. I'll stick with the board and sword.

My wizard has 336 mana, which is plenty, especially with mana leech. There's no point in training more in it.

Even though you didn't ask, I'll explain that AS and MIU are doubled primarily for using magic items and scrolls. I enjoy having 2 hour endurances on many spells I activate either through invoking or rubbing. With some of my toys, this is wise choice in my opinion. There is also spell burst in OTF. And, on the off chance I decide to enchant something...again, the ranks won't hurt there either.

Finally, some of this training may not be exactly what I wanted, because I had to sacrifice one thing for another. However, I think it's a good build and this wizard is very capable of doing wizardly and non-wizardly things alike. He's good with bolts, good with enchanting, and he can pound constructs to death for those people that get stuck while dead in OTF.

Meges

[Edited on 4-7-2005 by Meges]

[StrayRogue]

Interesting. I didn't know it was the skill level of MIU and AS that determines the duration of the spells they cast.

[Meges]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Interesting. I didn't know it was the skill level of MIU and AS that determines the duration of the spells they cast.

It's just one of the factors, but it plays a large role.

http://www.play.net/gs4/info/magic-guide.asp

Scroll to the bottom and you'll see the formulas for the activators.

Meges

[StrayRogue]

Wow, that is awesome. I never realized that thanks.

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Meges
Who has a better chance of success on a 7x enchant, my wizard below, or a level 25 wizard who is totally and fully trained in ALL skills, which is impossible, but in theory?



Are you the dumbest man alive, or just play him on message boards?

In a recent poll it was found that most people prefer 100 free dollars over a mere 25 free dollars.

Brilliant logic.



First and foremost, it seems clear that while many of you like to talk none of you have any data at all about enchanting. Stunseed seems to be the only one among you that have some actual data that may relate to enchanting. However, its too inflexible to use, the training plan it suggests aren't very generic.

I was hoping someone would explain this "proof" that is often alluded to but never shown.
Also Stray, the burden of proof is on the person making a claim, you saying its impossible for a level 25 to do 7x means that you are the one who must prove it, or what you are saying is just speculation. Thats like so many bible thumpers inventing a being, calling him god, then telling everyone else to prove he doesn't exist. You make the claim, you show the proof.


At any rate I see this is a pointless discussion, and yet again the moderation on these boards astounds me.

[FinisWolf]

Meges

I want to thank you for the time you took to answer my curiousities. I knew much of what you said, what I was not aware of, was your logic, and reasons for the amounts of shield/armor/OHE, which now make complete sense (well the armor does mathmatically - and I choose to live with crappy 6% hinderance because I do not wish to spend the points, as I too believe I can use those same points elsewhere) and I get teh jest of what you are saying in relation to the shield and OHE (these are simply paths I have not tested, hence my curioustity). Again, thank you, and I appreciate all your input.

Respectfully,

Finiswolf

[Meges]

Originally posted by Fengus

Originally posted by Meges
Who has a better chance of success on a 7x enchant, my wizard below, or a level 25 wizard who is totally and fully trained in ALL skills, which is impossible, but in theory?


Are you the dumbest man alive, or just play him on message boards?
[...]


Obviously, the sarcasm was lost on you. I have nothing to prove concerning enchanting. I was merely pointing out, as the post implies and assuming you read it all, that Xcalibur's posts have no foundation in fact. My posts however, do. As you can see from the links I provided from Play.Net.

Meges

[Meges]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
Meges

I want to thank you for the time you took to answer my curiousities. I knew much of what you said, what I was not aware of, was your logic, and reasons for the amounts of shield/armor/OHE, which now make complete sense (well the armor does mathmatically - and I choose to live with crappy 6% hinderance because I do not wish to spend the points, as I too believe I can use those same points elsewhere) and I get teh jest of what you are saying in relation to the shield and OHE (these are simply paths I have not tested, hence my curioustity). Again, thank you, and I appreciate all your input.

Respectfully,

Finiswolf

No problem Finiswolf. Everyone has their priorities and it's nice to see why people do what they do. Also, you're quite welcome StrayRogue.

Meges

[FinisWolf]

FUCKING 5% at work....

==============================================

You pick up a slender black steel sword.

>prep 405

You gesture and invoke the powers of the elements for the Elemental Detection spell...
Your spell is ready.

>cast my swo

You gesture at a slender black steel sword.
The patterns of essence about the sword indicate it is being enchanted and is one of your projects. You sense the sword has no enchantment. It is currently tempered and ready to be enchanted. It is on the final step of the enchanting process.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

>prep 925

You trace a series of glowing runes while chanting the phrase for Enchant Item...
Your spell is ready.

>cast my swo

You gesture at a slender black steel sword.
You concentrate on casting your magicks at the sword. Faint sparkles surround and embed it, and try to bond with its structure. Something isn't quite right though, and the sparkles fade.
Roundtime: 60 sec.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

R>glance

You glance down to see a slender black steel sword in your right hand and nothing in your left hand.

R>look at sword

You see nothing unusual.

>prep 405

You gesture and invoke the powers of the elements for the Elemental Detection spell...
Your spell is ready.

>cast my swo

You gesture at a slender black steel sword.
The patterns of essence about the sword indicate it is being enchanted and is one of your projects. You sense the sword has no enchantment. It is currently tempering and on the final step of the enchanting process.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds

==============================================

It's only a recast on a weapon from the Southron Waste critters, but I really hate re-doing things.

BTW, this wizard is well over 25.

Finiswolf

[FinisWolf]

Ok, this is just wrong, I just got the same messaging on some robes from the same area. I know there are things you can not Et, but are there items we can pour on sucessfully, then not sucessfully Et?

Finiswolf

[FinisWolf]

Ok...

..., all these are from the Southron Wastes...

I tried pouring on ~ a ripple-edged icy steel scythe ~ and the pour would not take.

I sucessfully poured on:

~ a shadowy trailing robe
~ a slender black steel sword

~ These are the two that I am getting the messaging on.

I sucessfully Et:

~ a razor-edged massive obsidian axe

This is making no sense. If any of you (that have REAL experience) have some knowledge to share, I would appreciate it. I do not want any of the arguements, please refrain, I will appreciate it. Thank you in advance.

Respectfully,

Finiswolf

[Gan]

Originally posted by Fengus
Also Stray, the burden of proof is on the person making a claim, you saying its impossible for a level 25 to do 7x means that you are the one who must prove it, or what you are saying is just speculation.

Not that Stray needs anyone to come to his defense, but YOU were the FIRST one making the claim that a lvl 25 wizard could do a 7x enchant. (See link below). And when other posters here doubted that claim you spouted off that you used Tsoran's data to create this uber young enchanting wizard. Yet when we politely asked you to post the stats you balked. Personally I think YOU should back your original claim up and post the stats and evidence of pours/casts before you go off on the rest of the community here and say we're all full of BS.

Yes, a majority of us here are more interested in dabbeling in the mechanices but more focused on playing; however, that same most of us have been around long enough to smell a load of shit when someone's trying to sell it. Hence the reaction you received to your original post. You made the first claim, and until you back it up with some evidence I will still say, politely, that you're full of shit.



http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=13544

[Meges]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
...

I tried pouring on ~ a ripple-edged icy steel scythe ~ and the pour would not take...

Respectfully,

Finiswolf

If looks were everything, I'd say that scythe has cold flares in it and you cannot enchant a flaring weapon or any other items that have special attributes. I know you know this, but perhaps you might have a bard/ess sing to it to get something more definitive.

Meges

[Drew]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I've done a 7x enchant with a 25 wizard. Trained for enchanting though, take it for what it's worth.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by Meges

Originally posted by FinisWolf
...

I tried pouring on ~ a ripple-edged icy steel scythe ~ and the pour would not take...

Respectfully,

Finiswolf

If looks were everything, I'd say that scythe has cold flares in it and you cannot enchant a flaring weapon or any other items that have special attributes. I know you know this, but perhaps you might have a bard/ess sing to it to get something more definitive.

Meges

Good point..., could make those Southron wastes weapons become very popular, very quickly...

Now, wheres that damn bard of mine gotten himself to this time?

Finiswolf

[Fengus]

Originally posted by Ganalon

Originally posted by Fengus
Also Stray, the burden of proof is on the person making a claim, you saying its impossible for a level 25 to do 7x means that you are the one who must prove it, or what you are saying is just speculation.

Not that Stray needs anyone to come to his defense, but YOU were the FIRST one making the claim that a lvl 25 wizard could do a 7x enchant.



Note there is a key difference me saying that I can and have enchanted to 7x and someone else saying I am lying and/or that it is impossible.

I don't care to post the stats and skills, they are pretty basic and since no one that I know of has any formula for enchanting they wouldn't help you make an educated decision as to the enchanting ability.
For that and all things in this realm you would have to take my word. Although I mentioned Tsoran because he is well known, and a well known enchanter, there are lots of intelligent posts on the official boards about what does and does not matter for enchanting.


No one asked me for proof that was sensible, I have the knowledge of others, and my own experience for a year enchanting. One such link I posted, but all the info thats been posted over a years time is long since rolled off the official boards so you'll have to either believe or not. But for you here is an enchanting session:

>cast at armor
You cast at supa cool armor and are successfull. It waz 9x and with one additional x, its now 10x! U rulez this N-chantin' stuph!
You hear the subdued thoughts of your conscious echo in your mind:
"You think they'll recognize the sarcasm?"
>smirk
You smirk.