Monks, quarterstaves, combat diversity, oh my!

[Alashir]

OscuroToday at 7:15 PM
So, here's something we're hoping adds a little diversity to Monks:
Baseline changes: Quarterstaves move from base speed 5, Min RT 5 to base speed 3, Min RT 4.

New CM:
Way of the Ironwood Branch
Available to: Monks
Stamina Cost: N/A
Prerequisites: Brawling training
CMP Cost: 2/4/6
Rank 1: Wielding a quarterstaff results in only a penalty of 5 MM when using UCS, down from 15.
Rank 2: With TWC Training, quarterstaves can trigger another attack on the same target (using the normal TWC hit chance and RT formula) which is a UCS move chosen at random, unless it's the tier-up has suggested a specific one, then it picks that.
Rank 3: When in the Flurry of Blows martial stance, a quarterstaff attack can trigger additional jabs against other targets in the rooms.

[Alashir]

OscuroToday at 7:21 PM
I mean, Way of the Ironwood Staff is my current coding project. That and a new hunting area, but we're still in design discussions on the latter. I'm not going to share other people's current projects.

[Alashir]

OscuroToday at 7:22 PM
I'm hoping to get a quarterstaff with one of the new weapon scripts at DR.

[Alashir]

ith 55 ranks of MOC:
>mstrike firebird
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
You explode into a fury of strikes and ripostes, moving with a singular purpose and will!
You swing an illthorn quarter staff at a firebird!
AS: +600 vs DS: +555 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +71 = +135
... and hit for 16 points of damage!
Stomach shot lands with a hollow *thump*.
You roll your illthorn quarterstaff aside and attempt to jab a firebird!
You have good positioning against a firebird.
UAF: 663 vs UDF: 591 = 1.121 * MM: 76 + d100: 79 = 164
... and hit for 10 points of damage!
Strong push to chest unbalances foe.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
You swing an illthorn quarter staff at a firebird!
The firebird dodges just in the nick of time!
Continuing your momentum, you jab at a firebird!
You have good positioning against a firebird.
UAF: 663 vs UDF: 591 = 1.121 * MM: 60 + d100: 12 = 79
A close miss!
You swing an illthorn quarter staff at a firebird!
AS: +600 vs DS: +555 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +17 = +81
A clean miss.
You roll your illthorn quarterstaff aside and attempt to jab a firebird!
You have excellent positioning against a firebird.
UAF: 663 vs UDF: 591 = 1.121 * MM: 79 + d100: 98 = 186
... and hit for 27 points of damage!
Fast, jarring blow to the chest audibly cracks several ribs.

Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 9 sec.

[Derex]

ith 55 ranks of MOC:
>mstrike firebird
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
You explode into a fury of strikes and ripostes, moving with a singular purpose and will!
You swing an illthorn quarter staff at a firebird!
AS: +600 vs DS: +555 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +71 = +135
... and hit for 16 points of damage!
Stomach shot lands with a hollow *thump*.
You roll your illthorn quarterstaff aside and attempt to jab a firebird!
You have good positioning against a firebird.
UAF: 663 vs UDF: 591 = 1.121 * MM: 76 + d100: 79 = 164
... and hit for 10 points of damage!
Strong push to chest unbalances foe.
Strike leaves foe vulnerable to a followup jab attack!
You swing an illthorn quarter staff at a firebird!
The firebird dodges just in the nick of time!
Continuing your momentum, you jab at a firebird!
You have good positioning against a firebird.
UAF: 663 vs UDF: 591 = 1.121 * MM: 60 + d100: 12 = 79
A close miss!
You swing an illthorn quarter staff at a firebird!
AS: +600 vs DS: +555 with AvD: +19 + d100 roll: +17 = +81
A clean miss.
You roll your illthorn quarterstaff aside and attempt to jab a firebird!
You have excellent positioning against a firebird.
UAF: 663 vs UDF: 591 = 1.121 * MM: 79 + d100: 98 = 186
... and hit for 27 points of damage!
Fast, jarring blow to the chest audibly cracks several ribs.

Your series of strikes and ripostes leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 9 sec.

a cheap MCW quarter staff just sold too :(

[gilchristr]

Thanks for the post for those of us who missed it

[Elgrim]

9 sec RT, this looks extremely lackluster compared to just using MSTRIKE with regular UAC attacks.

[audioserf]

It looks cool but it costs an absolute ton (talking like 2.5x cap or more) of exp to fully train for something which is ultimately just flat out worse than using a regular UCS mstrike.

[Izzy]

They're also making quarterstaves min 4 RT weapons, which is actually pretty huge

[Taernath]

I am whelmed.

[drumpel]

OscuroToday at 7:15 PM
So, here's something we're hoping adds a little diversity to Monks:
Baseline changes: Quarterstaves move from base speed 5, Min RT 5 to base speed 3, Min RT 4.

New CM:
Way of the Ironwood Branch
Available to: Monks
Stamina Cost: N/A
Prerequisites: Brawling training
CMP Cost: 2/4/6
Rank 1: Wielding a quarterstaff results in only a penalty of 5 MM when using UCS, down from 15.
Rank 2: With TWC Training, quarterstaves can trigger another attack on the same target (using the normal TWC hit chance and RT formula) which is a UCS move chosen at random, unless it's the tier-up has suggested a specific one, then it picks that.
Rank 3: When in the Flurry of Blows martial stance, a quarterstaff attack can trigger additional jabs against other targets in the rooms.


While I applaud them in an attempt to do something interesting with quarterstaffs, they don't need to go this route with making up more and more CMs.

They need to fix the stupid ass weapon system, it needs an overhaul. You need to give people something to work for do help define their hunting style with their favorite weapon(s).

They need to go over RTs, AvDs, DF and integrate a weapon skill system that will allow people to define their playing style by being able to focus on a single weapon or a couple of weapons in a weapon base that they specialize with.

A quarterstaff, for example, should outright have the RT changed for everyone.
Squares should be able to swing a quarterstaff in 3 seconds.
Semis and pures, 4 seconds.

Adjust the AvD/DF a bit (yeah, they'll still be kind of a wet noodle against chain and plate, but a slight bump to help them be more useful in these situations is needed).

Then build a weapon skill system that grants the wielder the opportunity to put specialization points into a quarterstaff, if they choose to have that be their specialized THW.
Tier 1 skills, you need 2 ranks before being able to add Tier 2 skills.
Tier 2 skills, you need 2 ranks before adding a Tier 3 skill.
Tier 3 skill, should be something enticing that makes your weapon type more awesome or help define your hunting style.

Squares should be allowed to earn enough specialized points for getting two weapon types in a weapon base up to Tier 3 level by cap (example: quarterstaff for light armor stuff because it swings fast and say a greatsword for heavy armor because it hits harder).
Semis should be allowed to earn enough specialized points for getting 1 weapon type to Tier 3 and a second type weapon to Tier 2 by cap.
Pures should be allowed to earn enough specialized points for getting 1 weapon type to max Tier 2 level by cap.

Tier 1 skill ideas: shave off an extra second of RT, but at the cost of a loss to some AvD/DF. Or allow a chance for a second strike with only +1 to your RT when it triggers. Or allow +1 to your RT, but boost the AvD/DF some and/or give a few ranks of Crit weighting.
Tier 2 skills ideas: allow an increased chance for a second attack with zero RT. Allow a chance to outright trip your target before you get your AS/DS check, with no extra RT. Allow a chance to parry/riposte on any incoming weapon attack. Allow increased AvD/DF and/or crit weighting with another +1 bump to RT.
Tier 3 skills ideas: Allow a chance to outright stun (if applicable, some creatures don't stun) with a AS/DS attack. Or give a greatly improved chance to outright trip your target when you do your AS/DS attack. Give a high chance for a second free attack in a swing + a small chance for a third swing with no increased RT.

There are so many things that can setup for all weapons bases to have basic Tier 1 and Tier 2 skills. Then design specialized Tier 1/2/3 skills for all weapons types. Give squares the ability to earn the most weapon skill points. Allow them to specialize (apply up to T3 skill) in two weapon types per weapon base.
Give semis the ability to earn enough points to specialize (apply up to a T3 skill) in one weapon type per weapon base.
Give pures the ability to earn enough points to be proficient in one weapon type per weapon base they train in, allowing Tier 2 skills, but never Tier 3.

[Maerit]

It's neat. I wouldn't say the MCW quarterstaff is a great choice with this setup because UCS is crit capped, so having all that crit weighting doesn't really add much to the equation. However, a double flaring (script + CAT B) with the extra hits from TWC and Flurry could be potentially useful. Still seems like a different direction from the original suggestion of staff mastery, which was proposed as a way to allow monks to train something other than UCS for their combat system.

[wetsand]

I bet we will see either a sprite or/and parasite quarterstaff available soon.

[Donquix]

It's neat. I wouldn't say the MCW quarterstaff is a great choice with this setup because UCS is crit capped, so having all that crit weighting doesn't really add much to the equation. However, a double flaring (script + CAT B) with the extra hits from TWC and Flurry could be potentially useful. Still seems like a different direction from the original suggestion of staff mastery, which was proposed as a way to allow monks to train something other than UCS for their combat system.

the quarterstaff swing(s) is a normal quartertaff swing. so you'd get MCW on the normal AS/DS swing and MCW is kinda good. the UCS attacks would, i assume, use whatever your glove / boots are as per normal. The MCW would be attractive because quarstaves hit just hard enough to trigger the weighting usually so you would be setting all your UCS attacks up with a that stun/disable/whatevs

[Maerit]

the quarterstaff swing(s) is a normal quartertaff swing. so you'd get MCW on the normal AS/DS swing and MCW is kinda good. the UCS attacks would, i assume, use whatever your glove / boots are as per normal. The MCW would be attractive because quarstaves hit just hard enough to trigger the weighting usually so you would be setting all your UCS attacks up with a that stun/disable/whatevs

Well that is neat, if entirely locked behind post-cap training, but neat.

[drumpel]

the quarterstaff swing(s) is a normal quartertaff swing. so you'd get MCW on the normal AS/DS swing and MCW is kinda good. the UCS attacks would, i assume, use whatever your glove / boots are as per normal. The MCW would be attractive because quarstaves hit just hard enough to trigger the weighting usually so you would be setting all your UCS attacks up with a that stun/disable/whatevs

If you're not going against plate class creature, MCW quarterstaff is an alright weapon to use. Chain, can be frustrating at times, but still okay to go against. Scale and under, you should be able to tear right through them. Sadly, it's that .1 DF against plate that sucks.

Here's my level 20 warrior, he's not trained in TRIP. So his trip attempts are solely from having 15+ THW ranks to get trip to trigger with a quarterstaff:

Attacking a large ogre in double chain:


>l og
You see a fairly typical large ogre.
He appears to be in good shape.
He has some double chain (worn) and a spear.
>stance d
You are now in a defensive stance.

A large ogre thrusts with a spear at you!
AS: +165 vs DS: +266 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +85 = +7
A clean miss.

>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a large ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +62 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +41 = +230
... and hit for 28 points of damage!
Finger ripped away from left hand.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a large ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +62 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +79 = +268
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
Right kneecap smashed into pulp.
The large ogre is knocked to the ground!
The large ogre is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a large ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +3 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +90 = +338
... and hit for 62 points of damage!
Hard hit shatters weapon arm.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a large ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +2 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +38 = +287
... and hit for 41 points of damage!
Large gash to the left arm, several muscles torn.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>at
>
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a large ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +1 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +81 = +331
... and hit for 70 points of damage!
Right leg ripped from socket at the knee!
The large ogre screams one last time and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.



Here he is fighting a forest ogre in metal breastplate:


You see a fairly typical forest ogre.
He appears to be in good shape.
He has a falchion, a metal breastplate (worn) and a wooden shield.
>
A forest ogre swings a falchion at you!
You gracefully avoid the attack!

>stance o
You are now in an offensive stance.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +88 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +78 = +243
... and hit for 29 points of damage!
You broke the forest ogre's nose!
The forest ogre is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

>trip og
[Roll result: 65 (open d100: -4) Bonus: 16]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff firmly into the ground near a forest ogre and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
The forest ogre deftly avoids the stroke. The vultite-alloy quarterstaff flies harmlessly aside.
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +62 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +73 = +264
... and hit for 24 points of damage!
Large gash to the left arm, several muscles torn.
Roundtime: 5 sec.


>trip og
...wait 1 seconds.
>trip og
[Roll result: 130 (open d100: 61) Bonus: 16]
With a fluid whirl, you plant a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff firmly into the ground near a forest ogre and jerk the weapon sharply sideways.
Quick strike is rewarded with a forest ogre stumbling to the ground!
... 10 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the forest ogre's left leg!
Roundtime: 3 sec.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +26 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +69 = +296
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Mighty blow cracks several ribs.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>stance off
...wait 2 seconds.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +26 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +84 = +311
... and hit for 31 points of damage!
Smash to the kneecap.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>at
...wait 1 seconds.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +26 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +97 = +324
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Smash to the kneecap.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>
A forest ogre stands up with a grunt.

>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
By amazing chance, the forest ogre evades the attack!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>
A forest ogre swings a falchion at you!
AS: +160 vs DS: +136 with AvD: +34 + d100 roll: +14 = +72
A clean miss.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +81 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +57 = +229
... and hit for 20 points of damage!
Bones in left arm crack.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +80 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +74 = +247
... and hit for 20 points of damage!
Neck vertebrae snap.
The forest ogre is stunned!
Roundtime: 5 sec.

>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +58 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +26 = +221
... and hit for 15 points of damage!
Jarring blow to the forest ogre's back.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>
[Roll result: 33 (open d100: 59)]
A forest ogre hurls itself at you and connects!
A forest ogre fails to bring you down, but manages to scramble to his feet!
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +72 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +16 = +197
... and hit for 17 points of damage!
Torn muscle in the forest ogre's left leg!
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>at
You swing a translucent vultite-alloy quarterstaff at a forest ogre!
AS: +229 vs DS: +72 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +7 = +188
... and hit for 16 points of damage!
Bones in right arm crack.
The forest ogre falls to the ground and dies.
Roundtime: 5 sec.


As you can see, the results against chain armor is tolerable. Against plate, it's kind of brutal. I don't see this new monk CM being useful against plate creatures and maybe irritating to use against chain creatures, even with a MCW quarterstaff (for those that don't know, they are 17 CER....I always thought they were 20). My particular quarterstaff is +25 (oh yeah, that's right. Drool, bitches!)

[Donquix]

Well that is neat, if entirely locked behind post-cap training, but neat.

Yup. The best way to think about it i've seen for it so far is it's TWC, but with the quarterstaff as your "primary" hand and UCS attacks as your offhand.