Predictions on what gets changed in game next

[Tgo01]

Let's all toss out our predictions on what will be changed next in GS.

My guesses:

All references to the word "master"
Gender will be customizable
Any sort of gendered term (sorcerer, journeyman, horseman, etc)

As we have seen no prediction is too ridiculous, so toss'em on out!

[Elgrim]

Sanctuary spells renamed to Safe Space and Seriously Safe Space
Limb Disruption removed, not sensitive to amputees
Animal Companions must be fed regularly, to avoid the impression of animal cruelty
Removal of all in game alcohol to prevent the glorification of drinking to minors
Snowflake items removed, to prevent offending snowflakes on both sides of the political spectrum
Dwarves renamed to mountain folk
Halflings renamed to tart folk
Half Elves renamed to something lame
Giantmen renamed to boomer folk, no wait...
Every player given a stipend of 100,000 silvers per week. No more treasure from hunting. All in game silvers redistributed across the existing population equally once per month
Empaths are not allowed to accept tips, healing at town empaths is now free. Fees from this healing is deducted monthly from the global silver pool before redistribution

[Shaps]

Personally,
I'm okay with gender pronoun selection.. want to be a "journeywoman" or "journeyman", "horseman" or "horsewoman", etc. so be it. I think it's a more accurate description when looking at someone to assist in their appearance.

Master - c'mon now.. apprentice/master relationships.. there are so many connotations to master that if you see that as a subversive or racist connotation, then you might be racist or something else.

Gender - should be 100% customizable IMO. Let people portray their "character" as they see fit and in the context of how they wish to RP.

My problem with the current conversation is the EXCLUSION of things. Not the ability for each person to individualize their PC as they wish to RP with them.

[Tgo01]

I'm okay with gender pronoun selection.. want to be a "journeywoman" or "journeyman", "horseman" or "horsewoman", etc. so be it. I think it's a more accurate description when looking at someone to assist in their appearance.

Gender - should be 100% customizable IMO. Let people portray their "character" as they see fit and in the context of how they wish to RP.

Wouldn't these two things contradict one another? If people are going to customize their gender then terms like "man" and "woman" no longer work.

While we're at it then "Bard" and "Bardess" would need to go away because "Bard" implies male and "Bardess" implies female.

Also can you imagine the coding nightmare if people want to be able to customize their pronouns? Like if someone wanted their pronoun to be "they" so whenever their character's pronoun is mentioned it would read "they"? You might say "Don't be silly, they won't go that far in their demands", but why wouldn't they? If you're allowing someone to customize their gender then it's only logical that the person who has a custom gender would want custom pronouns, otherwise you're saying "Sure, make your gender whatever you want, but you still have to choose between 'male' and 'female' pronouns."


Master - c'mon now.. apprentice/master relationships.. there are so many connotations to master that if you see that as a subversive or racist connotation, then you might be racist or something else.

That could be said for the proposed changes to Dark Elves and Half-Krolvin, if you see "black person" written all over the lore and background of those races that then just might make you the racist.

[FlayedAngel]

Personally,
I'm okay with gender pronoun selection.. want to be a "journeywoman" or "journeyman", "horseman" or "horsewoman", etc. so be it. I think it's a more accurate description when looking at someone to assist in their appearance.

Master - c'mon now.. apprentice/master relationships.. there are so many connotations to master that if you see that as a subversive or racist connotation, then you might be racist or something else.

Gender - should be 100% customizable IMO. Let people portray their "character" as they see fit and in the context of how they wish to RP.

My problem with the current conversation is the EXCLUSION of things. Not the ability for each person to individualize their PC as they wish to RP with them.
Damn fine point.

[SonoftheNorth]

I don't think neutral gender toggle would really matter to me, if you can toggle everything to say they/them etc instead of "grabs his broadsword" that's fine with me and won't really effect my life if it makes someone feel better about themselves and I will barely see or notice it I'm fine with it, messing with stats/mechanics/even shop enimity is crossing the line for me though.

[Taernath]

I thought journeyman/journeywoman was already a thing? And I'm pretty sure I saw a horsewoman earlier tonight.

[Tgo01]

I don't think neutral gender toggle would really matter to me, if you can toggle everything to say they/them etc instead of "grabs his broadsword" that's fine with me and won't really effect my life if it makes someone feel better about themselves

The problem is it's not that simple. Some people have pronouns of he, they, his, or she, they, they, or they, them, their, and this doesn't even cover the people who have made up pronouns.

Depending on how the code is setup it could be a huge mess to code, and I'm betting since this wasn't even a thing people considered 30 years ago when GS was made it's not setup for this to be an easy change.

[Shaps]

Wouldn't these two things contradict one another? If people are going to customize their gender then terms like "man" and "woman" no longer work.

While we're at it then "Bard" and "Bardess" would need to go away because "Bard" implies male and "Bardess" implies female.

Also can you imagine the coding nightmare if people want to be able to customize their pronouns? Like if someone wanted their pronoun to be "they" so whenever their character's pronoun is mentioned it would read "they"? You might say "Don't be silly, they won't go that far in their demands", but why wouldn't they? If you're allowing someone to customize their gender then it's only logical that the person who has a custom gender would want custom pronouns, otherwise you're saying "Sure, make your gender whatever you want, but you still have to choose between 'male' and 'female' pronouns."



That could be said for the proposed changes to Dark Elves and Half-Krolvin, if you see "black person" written all over the lore and background of those races that then just might make you the racist.

TGO,
Not arguing the points you made.. and as for coding issues I honestly have no idea.. I personally like the idea that a person can log in and through text accurately describe the person they wish to portray. Hence, I'm okay with allowing whatever descriptors they wish to allow others to see them as how they wish to be seen.

This is in context of the game. If we want to start the discussion on "them, they, ze, z" or whatever else is out there - yea I don't have the energy for that, so I see your point there.

As for Dark Elves and Half-Krolvin or anything else.. that's why I put in my last line - "My problem with the current conversation is the EXCLUSION of things."

I don't think anything should be taken out of the game. I'm for putting things INTO the game. I think a person should be able to express their character as they see fit... it does not mean I think things should be taken out of the game to assuage a persons desires. Life, both in game and out of game is beautiful and difficult..

There are horrors that exist.. There is virtue that exists.. We as creative people must be afforded the environment to allow that creative expression to occur in all of those environments.

In summation - Players should 100% be able to express themselves as they see themselves

- The environment should reflect both the good and the bad of existence to allow players to navigate and create their own stories in that world as they see fit.

I support the imagination and effort that people put into developing their in game persona, and I wish to have a game world that allows the exploration of all scenarios in it.

I think we'll find that people are good, empathetic, and supportive when faced with adversity or conflict. The environment (the game world) should reflect varying situations to allow the players the ability to form bonds and express themselves within it.

Rambling thoughts, but I hope the idea came across okay.

[FlayedAngel]

Hell yeah, this is fabulous and I'm there for it.

[SonoftheNorth]

The problem is it's not that simple. Some people have pronouns of he, they, his, or she, they, they, or they, them, their, and this doesn't even cover the people who have made up pronouns.

Depending on how the code is setup it could be a huge mess to code, and I'm betting since this wasn't even a thing people considered 30 years ago when GS was made it's not setup for this to be an easy change.

Yeah I'm talking 1 to mask gender not people being my little brony etc etc etc, leveling a character in GS is a huge fucking commitment if someone wanted to change their characters gender or hide it I don't think it'd be the end of the world, if they could code it in tastefully I mean.

[SonoftheNorth]

If someone has a baggy robe with a hood up you can't tell what their gender is anyways, or even without it these days.

[Tgo01]

Maybe Simu can get some ideas from Twitter.

And yes this is real, this is a list of words Twitter is "moving away from" in order to be more "inclusive."

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb74mBPU0AAct0s?format=jpg&name=large

Does anyone even remember why this all started? It's because people wanted police reform, and now we are talking about changing the word "grandfathered" because it's ageist or some shit.

I bet GS was headed this way and Wyrom realized it which is why he put a stop to this...for now at least until the pressure gets to him.

[Shaps]

TGO,
Good points.

Hopefully the community continues to OPENLY express their opinions as was done in this case.

Hopefully the community understands that it is OKAY to disagree and DISCUSS things.

Hopefully the community does not cower to intimidation or unfounded accusations because they are an expedient means to achieve something.

In this day and age it is so easy to be reactionary, to allow our impulses to override our logic in the 20-30 minutes following a comment and submit a reply which does not afford true comprehension of what is occurring.

As I said earlier, I give Wyrom credit for slowing decisions such as these down. Actually doing his job and taking a step back to ensure that reason, as opposed to emotions, affect change.

Perhaps in the grand scheme of things, none of this matters. To those that play this game, those that seek peace and artistic expression.. hopefully in some small way this is an opening to understanding and reasonable discourse.

**I'd normally say something like - "This shit is insane, fucking morons" - but rationality seems to have returned, hence my rational responses (hopefully)**

Look forward to future conversations.

[audioserf]

Yeah I'm talking 1 to mask gender not people being my little brony etc etc etc, leveling a character in GS is a huge fucking commitment if someone wanted to change their characters gender or hide it I don't think it'd be the end of the world, if they could code it in tastefully I mean.

Yeah agreed. I don't give a shit what gender someone wants to identify as IRL or in Gemstone, as long as the coding works and it's not something that takes a GM six months to do or something. If it can be done easily and cleanly I'm all for it, make some people happier. I do think Tgo01 is likely right that 30 years worth of systems all touch the gender field in various fashions and this would be a super involved update, though.

[Menos]

Yeah agreed. I don't give a shit what gender someone wants to identify as IRL or in Gemstone, as long as the coding works and it's not something that takes a GM six months to do or something. If it can be done easily and cleanly I'm all for it, make some people happier. I do think Tgo01 is likely right that 30 years worth of systems all touch the gender field in various fashions and this would be a super involved update, though.

Pick the temple of some deity who represents rebirth, Kuon maybe, and stick a glamour item there that hides a player's sex that is available for a trivial donation. Code for that sort of thing is already built. Sure easier than adding new options to the mangler.

[Fiend394]

I love how these things immediately went to gender scaremongering

[AnOrdim]

Hopefully, they start enforcing policy equally across the board for normal people and the big spenders:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/557381153405927456/713584948912586792/unknown.png

[Fortybox]

Hopefully, they start enforcing policy equally across the board for normal people and the big spenders:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/557381153405927456/713584948912586792/unknown.png

They shouldn't enforce the AFK policy for events that are repetitious and of which players are paying $ for.