TWC Hand Crossbow

[Nosh]

Just a question for those of you who may have tested out doing dual-wield hand crossbows:

Is the round time for TWC hand crossbows calculated in the same way that it's calculated for anything else, using offhand weight penalty and the strength stat?

Based on the calculation as far as I understand it, assuming you get your offhand weight to 3 that'd put you at a 35 strength bonus requirement to fire both hand crossbows at 4 seconds, since the base RT is 4 seconds for the hand crossbow? Same as a longsword.

Seems a little backwards to me that two hand crossbows should be that slow, especially considering they seem like they're on decently fair footing with short swords from a DF perspective, and worse than katars. Katars may require a bit more training due to the brawling, but given the perception and ambush requirements for AS I feel like that is well offset in ranged weapons.

[Malvadere]

As far as I know strength/encumberance doesn't play a part of crossbows. From my experience, I think the RTs are hard coded...don't quote me on that but I find regardless of strength I'm firing two hand crossbows at 5 seconds, and open Mstrking/focus Mstriking at 5 second too. Why 5 seconds does seems slow, I used to use my bow with 1-on-1 and switch to duel crossbows for 3 or more. However, now I just use my pair of crossbows. I'm currently working my way up to 5 focused strike fire attacks so I'm curious to know if that will remain at 5 second vs. the four.

[Fryinhades]

Mstrikenfire is based on agidex. But from my understanding firing is a flat 5 seconds for twc hand xbows. Strength no longer plays a part in xbows at all. Only longbows

[Alashir]

Is there any documentation that has agi/dex breakdown points for archery multistrike? Bow, crossbow, hand crossbow, twc hand crossbow, etc

[neimanz1]

it is the same as melee

[Whirlin]

It uses existing TWC DS calculations as well per my conversation with Naijin in Discord.
Based on everything, it seems it was just a lift/drop for ranged as an acceptable weapon type. Replace edged/blunt with ranged.

[Malvadere]

OK then, make sense...for the record my DEX is 129 (54) and AGI is 104 (37) for a total of 91... which according to https://gswiki.play.net/Roundtime reduced my RT by 6 seconds.

[Nosh]

Thanks for the inputs. I'll test it a little bit to see if strength does indeed play a role in the two-weapon part of it, though it appears here TWC just adds a flat 1 second on firing time as opposed to how melee weapons work in terms of offhand weapon weight and strength offset.

[Alashir]

OK then, make sense...for the record my DEX is 129 (54) and AGI is 104 (37) for a total of 91... which according to https://gswiki.play.net/Roundtime reduced my RT by 6 seconds.

Sounds like mstrike RT is capped at 3 targets for melee and since the same is true for ranged your RT shouldn't be increasing

[Malvadere]

Sounds like mstrike is capped at 3 targets for melee - assuming the same for ranged so your RT shouldn't be increasing

Its definitely not, and I hope it's not a bug. I get 50% phantom ranks from my MOC as a rogue so I'm at 4 focused and 6 unfocused working my way up to 5/7.

[neimanz1]

Its definitely not, and I hope it's not a bug. I get 50% phantom ranks from my MOC as a rogue so I'm at 4 focused and 6 unfocused working my way up to 5/7.

i think he talking about the rt being capped, so no difference from 3 focus to 4/5 focus

[Alashir]

i think he talking about the rt being capped, so no difference from 3 focus to 4/5 focus

Lol yes - that's my bad. I meant RT capped (was typing from my phone and I'm dumb)

[Fleur-de-me]

Has anyone else noticed that when using 2 hand crossbows for TWC it only uses 1 bolt from your ammo stack instead of two? Is this by design or a bug? Does anyone else notice this? Just wondering if it was a bug with whirlin's quiver, or all ammo stacks do that with twc and hand crossbow bolts.

[khorpulent]

Just tested this with mine, looks like firing once used two charges from my bundle:

You quickly glance through a bundle of rowan bolts and count 202 with pure white feathers remaining.

Individual projectiles from this bundle will have a long of "a rowan bolt fletched with pure white feathers"

Each individual projectile will be "a rowan bolt".

You cock and load your red hand crossbow with a rowan bolt fletched with pure white feathers.
You fire a rowan bolt at a lithe veiled sentinel!
AS: +564 vs DS: +322 with AvD: +9 + d100 roll: +54 = +305
... and hit for 35 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures upper arm!
Strands of white energy lash onto the veiled sentinel from the red hand crossbow!
The red hand crossbow glows slightly as it unleashes a wave of white energy!
** Tendrils of black and white energy lash out from your red hand crossbow hitting a lithe veiled sentinel's chest! **

... 25 points of damage!
Flames burn hole in chest exposing ribs!
The bolt sticks in a lithe veiled sentinel's left arm!
You feel as if your red hand crossbow is guiding your strike!
You cock and load your red hand crossbow with a rowan bolt fletched with pure white feathers.
You fire a rowan bolt at a lithe veiled sentinel!
AS: +550 vs DS: +316 with AvD: +9 + d100 roll: +39 = +282
... and hit for 28 points of damage!
Strike through the palm!
Strands of white energy lash onto the veiled sentinel from the red hand crossbow!
The red hand crossbow glows slightly as it unleashes a wave of white energy!
** Tendrils of black and white energy lash out from your red hand crossbow hitting a lithe veiled sentinel's back! **

... 10 points of damage!
Burst of flames to back toasts skin nicely.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
Roundtime: 5 sec.

R>l row bolts
You quickly glance through a bundle of rowan bolts and count 200 with pure white feathers remaining.

[khorpulent]

As far as RT is concerned, it uses agi/dex for the mstrike calculations, but the base RT for dual crossbows must not be that high, because I get 6 focused/7 unfocused strikes in 5 seconds (with 98+ agi/dex, don't know about below that threshold). With a heavy crossbow, my mstrike rt is 7 at the 98 agi/dex threshold and 6 at the 115 threshold.

Dual crossbows are pretty rad, but it is a little disappointing how little DS you get from them. I did some quick tests the other day and was kind of surprised:

DS in offensive stance:

Empty hands (with +40 gloves): 538
twin xbows (+38 in right hand, +30 in offhand): 508
0x heavy crossbow: 517
+38 composite bow: 572

[Malvadere]

I have 95 agi/dex and also enjoy decimating crowds with 5 second focused/unfocused mstrikes. My self spelled DS is pretty much identical to yours at 509 with two +35 hand crossbows. The only thing I wish that was different was lowering the RT of just shooting one hand crossbow, as in one shot kills to the eye is 4 seconds, instead of the 5 you get for simply holding onto another unfired crossbow. My crossbows are 15CER so this would be like 80% of the time.

[khorpulent]

The other sad thing about hand crossbows is that you don't get the kneeling bonus. Though I'd pobably get myself killed lying around on the ground shooting stuff.