Official : ESP being updated. Comments requested.

[Avaia]

Hey all,

The ESP system is getting an overhaul! Development and the New Player Experience teams have been working together on the design and I'm in the middle of coding the update. The design is in a solid enough place that we're looking for player feedback. Take a look at the document and you can comment directly on it or to this post. We look forward to seeing the feedback. Thanks!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YH-wtBUYy6_GuMajZgvJg5Cl6I3vOGK1YskcIqCubSw/edit?usp=sharing

- Naijin

This message was originally posted in General GemStone IV Discussion, Game Systems. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/325/3352/view/519

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/thread/1922211

[Taernath]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/223/976/neutral.jpg

[Astray]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/223/976/neutral.jpg

Same.

[Skeletor]

Same.

I’m actually more curious what new low level abilities they will replace for each of the 3 societies.

[Gelston]

I think it is cool, but if the object is to make Lich obsolete they'll need to update the FE.

[Skeletor]

I think it is cool, but if the object is to make Lich obsolete they'll need to update the FE.

^^^

And they are only moving in this direction because Lich exists. Maybe the embarassment and shame of having a hobbyist whip up one of the most important aspects of their game in his free time has finally gotten to them.

[Realk]

lmao

[Fortybox]

I think it is cool, but if the object is to make Lich obsolete they'll need to update the FE.

That's exactly what they plan to do.

[Orthin]

^^^

And they are only moving in this direction because Lich exists. Maybe the embarassment and shame of having a hobbyist whip up one of the most important aspects of their game in his free time has finally gotten to them.

I think its more they are no longer hamstrung. Since that Coase fellow left/got fired there has been a shit ton of big and small tweaks.

[Taernath]

If ESP/society channels were something people used a lot there'd be more excitement. In the last few years I don't think I've seen anyone use volnnet beyond exceedingly rare symbols of need, and the thought net only a couple of times preparing for invasions. ESP seems beyond saving since lnet does everything better with fewer restrictions, and 'ESP but with more chatrooms' doesn't sound like it will be a big draw. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Donquix]

If ESP/society channels were something people used a lot there'd be more excitement. In the last few years I don't think I've seen anyone use volnnet beyond exceedingly rare symbols of need, and the thought net only a couple of times preparing for invasions. ESP seems beyond saving since lnet does everything better with fewer restrictions, and 'ESP but with more chatrooms' doesn't sound like it will be a big draw. But maybe I'm wrong.

One of the reasons no one used the ESP was it's a pain in the ass to use, the system in game is completely nonsensical and the syntax is totally backasswards. Also it may still give soft rt(? i forget) and afaik definitely isn't usable while you are under status effects. Theres no way in hell the system would get the widespread use LNet does if i can't use it to bullshit while i'm waiting out a bandit ambush stun or whatever. Just in general it's silly, like naijin said, that to effectively guide new players you have to be like "go install all this other stuff so we can actually talk to you in game in a reasonable manner". From that angle, regardless of if we think the new player experience stuff will yield any results, it had to be addressed.

A LOT of people refuse to use lnet because of the shitposting, even if it's mostly contained to LNet it sours it for people. An actual simu supported avenue for that, which now includes policy enforcement, is pretty huge in that regard.

I love lich and lnet with all it's warts too but we can't all sit here like "it's ridiculous simu has to let this third party tool fix the ridiculous usability issues for their game" then also get mad when they fix the usability issues in their game.

[Maerit]

This will replace lnet to the same extent discord replaced the PC. Itll be extra moderated and people will still use lnet for most discussion and merchanting.

[Taernath]

One of the reasons no one used the ESP was it's a pain in the ass to use, the system in game is completely nonsensical and the syntax is totally backasswards. Also it may still give soft rt(? i forget) and afaik definitely isn't usable while you are under status effects. Theres no way in hell the system would get the widespread use LNet does if i can't use it to bullshit while i'm waiting out a bandit ambush stun or whatever. Just in general it's silly, like naijin said, that to effectively guide new players you have to be like "go install all this other stuff so we can actually talk to you in game in a reasonable manner". From that angle, regardless of if we think the new player experience stuff will yield any results, it had to be addressed.

The only thing I'm really saying is that lich has a huge install base - only about 50 out of 620 as I write this aren't using it - and that for ESP to become more widely used it needs to do things at least as well if not better. It probably doesn't help that discord poaches potential users too.


A LOT of people refuse to use lnet because of the shitposting, even if it's mostly contained to LNet it sours it for people. An actual simu supported avenue for that, which now includes policy enforcement, is pretty huge in that regard.

Lnet is a blight on humanity but I don't believe it's even one of the default channels.


I love lich and lnet with all it's warts too but we can't all sit here like "it's ridiculous simu has to let this third party tool fix the ridiculous usability issues for their game" then also get mad when they fix the usability issues in their game.

Nobody seems to be mad, at least in this thread.

[Donquix]

The only thing I'm really saying is that lich has a huge install base - only about 50 out of 620 as I write this aren't using it - and that for ESP to become more widely used it needs to do things at least as well if not better. It probably doesn't help that discord poaches potential users too.



Lnet is a blight on humanity but I don't believe it's even one of the default channels.



Nobody seems to be mad, at least in this thread.

Sure, but lnet != lich. LNet still very much has a place both for some features simu hasn't (maybe yet?) addressed like sharing spell durations, skills, etc. and some things it never will take over, the policy free chat. Which, even if you hate lnet is still pretty important at times. Simu certainly isn't going to implement the full featured scripting lich has and as long as lnet continues to be attached to that aspect of lich it will persist. I don't think either will be going away. ESP will probably end up with most or all of help and generally subdued chat. LNet will keep doing it's thing. Merchants will have to double dip which is pretty annoying but a small price to pay really.

[drumpel]

I think it is cool, but if the object is to make Lich obsolete they'll need to update the FE.

Lich won't leave unless Lich itself is actually killed off.

Simu cannot enforce anything over a 3rd party program - folks will continue to use it for that reason, plus they're already accustomed to it so much it's just second nature.

If folks start moving over to the ESP system again they have to keep no-no things off the ESP, even if they're a direct message to another player - it'll all be watched/flagged.

The only thing I can honestly say I truly miss from the good old crystal amulet days was when you (can't remember if you turned or pulled) got on the black channel to sell things. That channel was usually pretty active and almost everyone utilized it so you had the attention of a good majority of the player base when you wanted to sell something in game or you were looking to buy something new.

When the population started to dip and they "revamped" the ESP system and it didn't make any fucking sense on how it functioned I stopped using it. Even if they do fix it up and make it better/more user friendly, I don't think I'll ever go back to using it again.

[Murrandii]

It's not a "reskin" (reuse, recapture, call it whatever you like)

esp
Usage:
ESP TOGGLE - Toggle ESP on and off (currently: ON)
ESP TUNE {channel} - Tune to a channel or set your default channel if already tuned.
ESP UNTUNE {channel} - Untune to a channel.
ESP IGNORE {person} - Ignore a person on all channels.
ESP UNIGNORE {person} - Stop ignoring a person.
ESP WHO {channel} - Show people tuned to the specified channel.

Your default channel is: General. You may pick one of the following channels:
General, OOC, Help

You are tuned to the following channels:
General, OOC, Help

The following base channels are available:
Realm, Merchant, Society, Cairnfang, Blackwolves, Gems

All base channels are considered global except Realm.
All base channels except OOC, Help, and Merchant are considered in-character and must follow POLICY 2.

You are not ignoring anyone.

LOL

[Murrandii]

This will replace lnet to the same extent discord replaced the PC. Itll be extra moderated and people will still use lnet for most discussion and merchanting.

+1

That's my thought 2, in a window of grosso modo 1 year ( + or - 100%)

[Methais]

I think it is cool, but if the object is to make Lich obsolete they'll need to update the FE.

They’ll also need to update policy to let people say wtf they want. Which they won’t, so LNet will continue to thrive.

[Gelston]

They’ll also need to update policy to let people say wtf they want. Which they won’t, so LNet will continue to thrive.

LNet will never go away simply because it isn't moderated by Simu. I think they could make it far less of a necessity though.

[Taernath]

ESP is out now, let's get this sex chat started.

[Parkbandit]

They could get their new ESP to a point where more and more people actually use it.. then ban LNet because they don't control it.

And before anyone comes at me with "But their customers won't stand for that!".. I'll just point to the last 30 years of history of what the customer will bend over and take from Simu.

[Taernath]

I am not a hackerman but I don't think they could ban LNet without also banning lich, which would legitimately kill the game. The stupid alt currency grinding is facilitated by scripting.

[audioserf]

I am not a hackerman but I don't think they could ban LNet without also banning lich, which would legitimately kill the game. The stupid alt currency grinding is facilitated by scripting.

The amount of effort it would take to block Lich isn't anything they'd be interersted in putting forth, and even then someone could just modify it slightly to work. You can't block Ruby. Lich isn't going anywhere. A percent of the playerbase will migrate from Lnet to Boomernet and that'll be that.

[FlayedAngel]

And they are only moving in this direction because Lich exists. Maybe the embarassment and shame of having a hobbyist whip up one of the most important aspects of their game in his free time has finally gotten to them.
Hahaha, burn.

[FlayedAngel]

ESP is out now, let's get this sex chat started.
mychar slowly extends his big toe.

[Taernath]

mychar slowly extends his big toe.

https://i.imgur.com/Pol8jTD.gif