View Full Version : Sanctify is out.
Enceladus
03-28-2005, 06:06 PM
Got released a while ago.
StrayRogue
03-28-2005, 06:07 PM
Makes paladins even more stupidly uber.
Xcalibur
03-28-2005, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by StrayRogue
Makes paladins even more stupidly uber.
still they're simple warrior with less redux and some little buffs
StrayRogue
03-28-2005, 06:39 PM
Just with higher AS, DS, CS, and TD.
Xcalibur
03-28-2005, 07:26 PM
As bards, as rangers for some parts.
StrayRogue
03-28-2005, 07:32 PM
What?
They have have higher AS/DS/CS/TD than warriors, with comparable stats with other semi's, with the exception of AS which is through the roof.
Xcalibur
03-28-2005, 07:40 PM
What?
StrayRogue
03-28-2005, 07:42 PM
Learn to communicate in English.
AnticorRifling
03-28-2005, 07:46 PM
Paladin that is about Anticor's lvl swings a 5x ohb in the temple with an AS of 424 easy. Anticor's AS is 365 with an 8x...
Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Paladin that is about Anticor's lvl swings a 5x ohb in the temple with an AS of 424 easy. Anticor's AS is 365 with an 8x...
So? Wizards aren't supported as an arms class.
[Edited on 3-29-2005 by Tijay]
Artha
03-28-2005, 07:56 PM
If a cleric wants to swing, he can convert.
If a warrior wants higher AS/DS/TD/CS and spells he can convert. :P
btw I'm against the uberness of Paladins
Artha
03-28-2005, 08:14 PM
Warriors just suck. You should all roll up gnome noobs and dance/fight around WL.
AnticorRifling
03-28-2005, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by Tijay
Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Paladin that is about Anticor's lvl swings a 5x ohb in the temple with an AS of 424 easy. Anticor's AS is 365 with an 8x...
So? Wizards aren't supported as an arms class.
[Edited on 3-29-2005 by Tijay]
True but with my Giant ST bonus, 425 bonus, 509, signs, 1x CM and 1x polearm I make a pretty decent AS and I was showing that a paladin of close train blows that out of the water. With a weapon that's -15 compared to mine no less.
Originally posted by Artha
Warriors just suck. You should all roll up gnome noobs and dance/fight around WL.
Why do warrior's suck?
Bobmuhthol
03-28-2005, 08:41 PM
Biggnife is probably a more efficient fighter than Bobmuhthol at 7 levels under him.
Xcalibur
03-28-2005, 08:42 PM
If paladins are THAT uber, they'll do something.
play.net are good for balancing stuff so much, everyone is alike.
Gizmo
03-29-2005, 11:43 AM
Only reason how I see us as being so "Uber" is our spells which cause our AS to jump high. Other than that, I can't see how we can be so super uber. Our DS isn't the best..My DS in 0 with spells at 68 trains is 265..That includes guards, blurs and signs..That isn't that great if you ask me..Then again, I use THW.
Our CS can be high, due to the fact we have 1612, which adds a lump of CS to our cause. TD..We have MNS and some other TD affecting spells, of course it is high. As I see it right now, where things stand...I think Simu is in the right direction for Paladins..We aren't too overpowering, yet we excel in Physical combat..Which we are supposed to do. However, I bet if you team me up with a like level ranged using Ranger, he'd win. It's just a matter of who you compare us against.
Artha
03-29-2005, 11:45 AM
Why do warrior's suck?
What are warriors supposed to do? Excel at fighting.
But they can't compete against like leveled semis or even rogues.
Makkah
03-29-2005, 11:57 AM
<<What are warriors supposed to do? Excel at fighting.
But they can't compete against like leveled semis or even rogues.>>
AS-wise... but gotta take CMAN into consideration.
Artha
03-29-2005, 12:11 PM
Because of stamina a warrior can't continually do combat maneuvers (except maybe feint). Bards could probably keep someone under lullabye forever, rogues and rangers can hide and ambush (or spikethorn for rangers).
Xcalibur
03-29-2005, 12:47 PM
Warriors can have areal high as with bonding and better specialisation.
And their cm is cheaper too.:yes:
StrayRogue
03-29-2005, 02:10 PM
Paladin's have a vastly higher AS than warriors.
Axhinde
03-29-2005, 04:43 PM
Stay is right about this one. My AS jumped quite a bit, even though I had wspec and bonding as a Warrior. Without 509 right now my AS is 371 with a 4x weapon as opposed to a lower 320.
Atlanteax
03-29-2005, 04:46 PM
Originally posted by Axhinde
Stay is right about this one. My AS jumped quite a bit, even though I had wspec and bonding as a Warrior. Without 509 right now my AS is 371 with a 4x weapon as opposed to a lower 320.
I agree with Strayrogue as well.
Provided that the Paladin manages to find the points to move towards 1.75x-2x CM at the higher levels.
Chadj
03-29-2005, 05:12 PM
I dunno how huge paladin AS is.. I know as a bard Chadj has an AS of 329 at 39 trains.
StrayRogue
03-29-2005, 06:17 PM
I think Bob posted his AS was around that at level 23 or something.
Chadj
03-29-2005, 06:20 PM
If self spelled, that's wrong. Very wrong.
Gizmo
03-29-2005, 06:37 PM
At 23, Kupoa swung 282 or somewhere like that self spelled with signs I believe....4x of course
Xcalibur
03-29-2005, 07:30 PM
Eh, it's impossible to have that much difference.
A paladin got the same +10 bonus AS as all semis.
And the ONLY booster they have left is the CM one, that's giving .25 AS per paladin ranking.
hectomaner
03-29-2005, 07:47 PM
well at 23, my self spelled AS is high 220s or low 230s in main hand, with a 2x weapon, and slightly higher with offhand with a 4x weapon.
and this is with no wspec, no surge, no col signs
Xcalibur
03-29-2005, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by hectomaner
well at 23, my self spelled AS is high 220s or low 230s in main hand, with a 2x weapon, and slightly higher with offhand with a 4x weapon.
and this is with no wspec, no surge, no col signs
A same level warrior with 48 ranks would had
148+ strength bonus + 2-4X... why a difference of 40-60?
The CM booster can be a fairly big booster especially if you scrap secondary skills to 2x CM. It would eventually put you at 2.75x CM.
Originally posted by Xcalibur
Originally posted by hectomaner
well at 23, my self spelled AS is high 220s or low 230s in main hand, with a 2x weapon, and slightly higher with offhand with a 4x weapon.
and this is with no wspec, no surge, no col signs
A same level warrior with 48 ranks would had
148+ strength bonus + 2-4X... why a difference of 40-60?
Probably because you ignored the +24 from 2x CM for the warrior.
Xcalibur
03-29-2005, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Tijay
Originally posted by Xcalibur
Originally posted by hectomaner
well at 23, my self spelled AS is high 220s or low 230s in main hand, with a 2x weapon, and slightly higher with offhand with a 4x weapon.
and this is with no wspec, no surge, no col signs
A same level warrior with 48 ranks would had
148+ strength bonus + 2-4X... why a difference of 40-60?
Probably because you ignored the +24 from 2x CM for the warrior.
Ahh I knew I forgot something...
So there's a 15-25 difference still..
Now everyone must be paladins, hmm?
LrdPath
03-30-2005, 05:36 AM
First off... compared to other semi's, palladins have the highest skill costs, and while they may be very good if well trained in the as/ds/td/cs department, it sacrifices being decent at anything else.
Why do they swing harder? Because spell costs (all magical skills pretty much) are higher, although weapon costs are the same. They were supposed to be semi's in that they CAN use spells, but rather than 1x per level, simu pushed the costs so unless you want to make a lot of sacrifices, it's more like .60 per level in spells.
Also, to whomever posted about the CM spell, i'm surprised nobody corrected him/her.
Does nobody whining in this topic actually play or have tried a paladin?
It CLEARLY states that the CM bonus, including the base bonus, and the extra amount you can gain from lore/spells... CANNOT ever exceed the amount of CM the paladin would have if they were double trained in CM.
I was converting a warrior after testing one out for a while. The ONLY good thing about it was that I saved some points, based on my expected bonus from the spell, I could drop from 116 ranks to 91 ranks in CM, and save some TPS to use that I desperately needed, otherwise I would have had NO lore training.
I'm still working on what to sacrifice to get some ancillary magic skills.
Honestly, I still would have trained in CM, because I don't think that the spell will give me access to those 25 ranks in CML.
But then I would be totally wasting a spell slot.
Starting to see the dilemma's now?
If you look at any of those paladins who swing that hard, ask to see there skills. I bet you that they have nothing but weapon/shield/cm/ (maybe not shield if they are using two weapons or 2handers.) And less than 1x spells, few lores, and very few extra skills.
My warrior on the other hand has no problem training in a ton of extra skills because of the TP costs being so much lower. He is 2xd edged/brawl/cm (voln fu - brawl), 2xd in shield, over 2x in armor for plate so no bother with dodging. Very good climbing and swimming, enough to get around plus a fair amount of survival and first aid and physical to have great redux, so if he gets hit, hurts not much at all.
So you are bothered that a warrior swings weaker than a class that is supposed to be a HOLY WARRIOR?
They are warriors with no redux, and some access to magic.
Stop whining.
Also, most of the spells are group spells, so try hunting with one, and you will hit harder, and have more fun besides.
Before the push to actually make them more magical, empaths and clerics had a higher DS and many times AS than warriors, and they were pure magickers.
J
Originally posted by LrdPath
Also, to whomever posted about the CM spell, i'm surprised nobody corrected him/her.
Does nobody whining in this topic actually play or have tried a paladin?
It CLEARLY states that the CM bonus, including the base bonus, and the extra amount you can gain from lore/spells... CANNOT ever exceed the amount of CM the paladin would have if they were double trained in CM.
The total Combat Maneuver bonus received between Patron's Blessing and the Paladin's training can not surpass what the Paladin would receive were he fully trained in Combat Maneuvers. The AS bonus, however, is uncapped.
The AS seems to be what most people are upset about not the CML portion of the spell.
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