Parenting.

[Shari]

I recently decided to create this thread in response to the outbreak of flames on my Mexico spring break thread.

Mostly, (and others are welcome to respond) I created this for Bratt to respond to because, well...I fear for her children when they become teenagers.

I did make a horrible generalization that "all teenagers will drink". This isn't true. BUT...I'd say a good percentage of them will drink outside the presence of their parents' (especially if they're like Bratt) or to experiment in other such activities.

Yeah, my mother fucked up on many aspects of parenting. I was fortunate enough to grow up living under the same roof with both parents. Both of them (as I have found out within the last 2 years) smoke weed. I flew off the deep end when I found out. How could they have been so fucking stupid!?! Don't they know its illegal!?!

Well...my dad is sucessful enough working at Intel that my mom had the luxury of being a stay-at-home mom. So, I'd say their drug habit isn't interfering with their ability to function as human beings. As children, we were fed, clothed, and grew up with a learning process of such:

"Don't touch the stove, its hot."

"I'm really not kidding, if you touch it, you're going to get burned and its going to hurt."

<I stupidly touch stove, get burned, start crying>

"There, are you going to touch it again?"

<I shake head no>

Now OBVIOUSLY, you can't do this in all aspects...but thats a generalization.

I (and still do, as do my siblings) like to learn from example. I learn my limits, and what I am really capable of.

This goes the same for drinking. I plan to do the same for my kids too, Bratt. I'd rather have them in the safety of my home, understanding the dangers of drinking, than having them lie to me and say they're going to a friend's house and they get shiftfaced, drive home, get in a car accident, and die.

Your opinion, of course, is noted. And since you were so clearly opinionated on how horrible you thought my mother's raising of me is, let me say a few things before I end this.

My fiance and I own our own home. I don't do drugs. I have never once driven home drunk. I do not ride with those who (stupidly) choose to drive home drunk. I have a steady job and I will be graduating from college this semester. My other two siblings are following a similar route.

I'd say my parents raised me quite well.

Good luck with the raising of yours.

I have an appointment to run off too but I'll come back and check this and I promise to get more in-depth with it.

[Edited on 3-25-2005 by Jesae]

[Edited on 3-25-2005 by Jesae]

[Edaarin]

Your parents are breaking the law.

That's not the greatest example to set for your high school age sister.

[Shari]

Not that many ever would if you confronted them, but I'm willing to bet many people (yes, that means parents!) have broken the law at one time or another.

[Edaarin]

Here's the difference though.

I break the law everytime I step into a bar or drink at a party. However, I'm not being held to a higher standard (unless some of my residents are present, which is a conflict of interest that I've been pretty good at avoiding).

Your parents live in the same house, and if they are willfully doing this kind of stuff where your sister can see, then your sister gets the impression that they're going to be okay with her doing it.

[StrayRogue]

I think they did a good job Jesae. I think you're a bit hard on the drugs subject, remember they probably did those in the 70's, heh.

[Kainen]

As a parent you have to deal with a few sacrifices.. and one is NOT doing illegal drugs. You can't defend your parents in what they are doing because it's just plain wrong. It's great that you turned out alright.. but you cannot always blame/give the credit to parents for the way a child turns out, not to say that how you were raised has nothing to do with it. Edaarin is absolutely right, it IS setting a bad example. The days of "do as I say, not as I do" are long gone. I don't smoke, drink or do drugs. Not because I don't want to, but because I don't want my son doing any of that. To me, possible the BEST way to show him that it's not a good thing to do, is to refrain from doing it myself. As far as letting your child smoke pot or drink around you.. I don't think so. Condoning a behavior is not the way to get them to stop doing it.

If you find your kids with a huge bag of marijuana, the only way they will learn their lesson is if you sit them down and make them smoke the whole bag.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I think you're a bit hard on the drugs subject, remember they probably did those in the 70's, heh.>>

Except they do it currently.

[StrayRogue]

Whats wrong with that exactly? As Bill Hicks said weed doesn't make you want to fight people, it doesn't make you rowdy, it doesn't kill your liver etc.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Tea & Strumpets
If you find your kids with a huge bag of marijuana, the only way they will learn their lesson is if you sit them down and make them smoke the whole bag.

LMFAO.

When I was like 10, I snuck downstairs in the morning and had a doughnut out of the dozen my mom just went out to buy at the shop. When confronted, I owned up to it. As punishment, she went to the store and bought another dozen doughnuts just for me. She made me eat the whole dozen.

I was like "HAHA.. she has no idea how easy this punishment is! BEST MOM EVER"

That was before I got to doughnut #8 and began to dry heave on every bite.

[Back]

Man, Hearst really brainwashed generations of people over profits.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<As Bill Hicks said weed doesn't make you want to fight people, it doesn't make you rowdy, it doesn't kill your liver etc.>>

I have no problem with marijuana. I'd much rather have it legalized. However, it's not. You're breaking a law to smoke marijuana just like you're breaking a law to stab someone in the face.

[StrayRogue]

I suppose you have a point Bob.

[Brattt8525]

Mostly, (and others are welcome to respond) I created this for Bratt to respond to because, well...I fear for her children when they become teenagers.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fear for my children? Why Jesae because I believe that allowing a 15 year old to drink at home with mommy watching is irresponsible? Because I think a mommy smoking weed is setting a terrible example for her kids? Because I think teaching your kids to hide things from daddy is a load of shit? Yes thank god apparently you turned out ok, your in the minority of children raised that way.

[DeV]

There are many parents who don't break the law and do a horrible job raising their children and it shows. I don't condone what Jesae's parents did as far as letting them drink because I was not raised in that fashion. However, parenting is multi-faceted and there is no one right way to do it. All parents make mistakes at some point during the upbringing of their children and some more than others.

I don't feel her parents are unfit in the least and I think that label is extremely harsh. I do feel they should be more thoughtful in their decisions concerning the drinking and such as children are extremely impressionable and the monkey see monkey do mentality is high in most cases.

Does anyone have perfect parents?

[Brattt8525]

No ones parents are perfect Dev, and yes we all make mistakes but letting your children drink is by far not just a simple mistake, or misjudgement. I have seen first hand what allowing your kids to drink did to a friend of mine. While I am happy for Jesae that she apparently has turned out well considering I have also seen the reverse effect.

[Jolena]

when I was 7 my mother caught me pretending to smoke cigarettes with some friends of mine. She and my grandmother took me to the house and set me out on the backporch and made me smoke an entire cigarette. I puked until I couldn't puke anymore. Needless to say I didn't smoke again until I was 20.

As far as the weed issue. I smoked when I was 19-21 and then I stopped. Why? For a # of reasons. 1) I had a kid. 2) I realized it was not something I was willing to go to jail over 3) I wanted something more productive for my life.

I do think that marijuana should be legalized. Mainly because it has a lot less drastic side effects (in my opinion) then alcohol does and yet alcohol is legal. But that is beside the point. I believe that you must set a good example for your children as well. Jesae, you are in a minority of children who turned out okay. I have seen several children whose parent's smoked pot and drank in front of them regularly and many of them (not all but I'd say at least 90%) didn't turn out okay. They learn by example, generally. If their parents are doing it, they feel it's okay.

As far as the drinking at home with mom situation. My parents did the same with me in a way. I wanted to drink and so they let me. They gave me a 6 pack of wine coolers when we were at the lake camping one summer. I was 13 years old. I drank all of them and ended up very sick. I had a horrible hangover and it sucked so bad. They were watching over me, there was no real risk I guess of me doing something stupid and since I wasn't old enough to drive that wasn't an issue either. However, looking back, I think it had it's merits and it's negative connotations. I wouldn't do this with my children now as I'd rather set a good example to them then to set a bad one by saying it's okay for them to drink when they are underage.

I think the main thing parents should realize is that they are now responsible for not just their own lives, but their children's lives as well. We as parents cannot control every single aspect of a child's life. All we can do is lead by example, talk to them, discipline them and hope for the best to be honest. It's a rough job and full of what if's and stress. But I think to make them think it's okay to drink and do drugs is quite possibly the worst thing we could do for them.

Just my 2 cents.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<letting your children drink is by far not just a simple mistake, or misjudgement.>>

Untrue. I have yet to be hurt because I was given alcohol in my own home. It's not whether or not the child drinks, it's if they can handle it and where it happens.

<<I have seen first hand what allowing your kids to drink did to a friend of mine.>>

This is a horrible basis for your point given only what you've said. Your friend is not everyone, and your friend clearly has problems of their own. Giving a knife to a sadist is bad, too. The parents need to determine whether or not they're making a mistake by letting their child drink, so long as it's done in their home. Just because one kid sucks at drinking doesn't mean they all are.

When it's done unlawfully, however, then you've got yourself a problem.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<when I was 7 my mother caught me pretending to smoke cigarettes with some friends of mine. She and my grandmother took me to the house and set me out on the backporch and made me smoke an entire cigarette. I puked until I couldn't puke anymore. Needless to say I didn't smoke again until I was 20.>>

What a fucking terrible thing to do. This isn't a lesson learned at all. Your parents suck.

<<They gave me a 6 pack of wine coolers when we were at the lake camping one summer. I was 13 years old.>>

Illegal; retarded.

<<I drank all of them and ended up very sick.>>

It was deserved, and you were drinking wine. WTF.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
No ones parents are perfect Dev, and yes we all make mistakes but letting your children drink is by far not just a simple mistake, or misjudgement. I have seen first hand what allowing your kids to drink did to a friend of mine. While I am happy for Jesae that she apparently has turned out well considering I have also seen the reverse effect.Bratt... do you feel every parent that allows their child to drink while underage or every parent who's child drinks while underage even if they aren't aware of it happening are unfit? Can you say the same for cigarettes, firecrackers, porn..... the list goes on.

[Jolena]

Oddly enough, Bob, I can agree with you slightly on the smoking situation. However, it did accomplish what they wanted it to. I did not smoke again until I was 20. Smoking is a horrible habit, yes and I should never have started at 20. However, at the very least, it kept me from doing it when I was not old enough to as the lesson stuck with me for quite some time.

As far as the wine, when given to a 13 year old who has not had alcohol at all, and drank 6 in the span of about 45 minutes, yes it can make you drunk. Secondly, yes it's illegal. But so is allowing your 15 year old to drink alcohol, at home or not.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I did not smoke again until I was 20.>>

So it failed. Awesome.

<<As far as the wine, when given to a 13 year old who has not had alcohol at all, and drank 6 in the span of about 45 minutes, yes it can make you drunk.>>

I drank the equivalent of five 12 oz. bottles of beers in an hour. I'd hardly call myself drunk. I got no hangover.

Wine coolers are a pussy drink.

<<Secondly, yes it's illegal. But so is allowing your 15 year old to drink alcohol, at home or not.>>

Actually, it's very much legal at home. I'm not sure where you get the idea that it's illegal.

[Jolena]

In my opinion, it did not fail. As it kept me from smoking at LEAST until I was old enough to do so as an adult. It's all a matter of opinion at this point. Same goes for the discussion of whether or not "wine is a pussy drink". :shrug:

[Bobmuhthol]

<<As it kept me from smoking at LEAST until I was old enough to do so as an adult.>>

Smoking isn't a crime. Selling cigarettes to minors is.

<<Same goes for the discussion of whether or not "wine is a pussy drink".>>

There's no debate about this. Wine coolers have even less alcohol per volume than wine.

[CrystalTears]

Unless you drink 6 of them in a matter of minutes, especially for someone who doesn't drink.

[Shari]

Hehe....Lemme clarify something here. I just now realized I left out something important.

I had no idea my parents smoked weed until just a few years ago. My sister had no idea, until dumbass Scott was joking with my mom in the kitchen and it slipped. (What a disaster that was.) My brother still smokes weed on an average basis. Just like my parents, he somehow manages to function, work, go to college, etc.

AAANYWAY.....Of course I was infuriated when I found out, and I did get them to try and quit (yeah right) but as someone mentioned from earlier...they did it in the 70's...and turns out they have been since then. A sad fact, but...as long as they aren't hurting themselves or anyone else, I don't really give a shit.

Okay, so my clarification is this: I'm thinking many people are visualising the scenario I explained in a way I hadn't intended. It wasn't like my friends and I would walk into the house and my mother would offer us shots of tequila, beer, or a joint. (Mean Girls, anyone?). It was more like...My friends and I would come to my house at curfew, and attempt to sneak a 6-pack or bottle (we didn't do drugs, only drinking) up to my room. My mom would be awake, catch us...tell us we could drink as long as my friends' with cars gave up their keys and spent the night, and we disposed of the bottles in the morning.

She wasn't standing around in the kitchen lighting a pipe, or flippantly leaving half-consumed bottles of alcohol around either. It was more of..."You've been caught, if you stay within the house, you're okay."

And one of the main reasons we "hid shit from daddy" was BECAUSE he practiced the "do as I say, not as I do" shit. He smoked, drank, and drove himself drunk on numerous occasions (whole other story) and if he found out any of us had consumed alcohol...well, we just never let him find out.

Clearly this whole conversation is leaving Bratt with an uncontrollable twitch near the corner of her left eye. Perhaps you should stop responding. :)

[Kyra]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
As Bill Hicks said weed doesn't make you want to fight people, it doesn't make you rowdy, it doesn't kill your liver etc.

Depends on the person I guess. Weed puts my brother on a hair-trigger with his temper...he's broken so many things & gotten into too many fights while high.(seen the after effects for over 2 decades now)<shrug>

K.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Unless you drink 6 of them in a matter of minutes, especially for someone who doesn't drink.>>


I drank the equivalent of five 12 oz. bottles of beers in an hour. I'd hardly call myself drunk.

[Shari]

Had you ever drank any time before drinking those 5 beers, Bob?

[Kyra]

Originally posted by Jesae
Mostly, (and others are welcome to respond) I created this for Bratt to respond to because, well...I fear for her children when they become teenagers.

I did make a horrible generalization that "all teenagers will drink". This isn't true. BUT...I'd say a good percentage of them will drink outside the presence of their parents' (especially if they're like Bratt) or to experiment in other such activities.

Well, as a parent I can honestly say kids will only get away with as much as you let them.

That said, my kids are under roof & will abide by my rules until they are ready to live with their dad(hahahahaha like he could care for them) or are able to move out.

If I don't know where they are, who they are with & have numbers AND addresses to find them at then they don't go...if they leave the original place they have to call me or they are in deep $hit.

I'm not that old..& I remember what kind of trouble I got into because my mother was WAY too lax with me...if my kids want to screw up their lives they are more than welcome to..on their own time(i.e. when they can pay for their own screw ups.). Until then, it's my way or lockdown.

They have everything they need & they get to enjoy going places...so long as they follow the rules they are free to go.

I guess I don't know why you "fear" for someones kids?? I know quite a few people who smoke weed, do hard drugs & or drink in front of their kids...99.9% of said kids aren't(or haven't) turned out very well.

K.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Unless you drink 6 of them in a matter of minutes, especially for someone who doesn't drink.>>


I drank the equivalent of five 12 oz. bottles of beers in an hour. I'd hardly call myself drunk.

I specificially said for someone who doesn't drink. We already know you're a lush.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I specificially said for someone who doesn't drink. We already know you're a lush.>>

rofl okay.

<<Had you ever drank any time before drinking those 5 beers, Bob?>>

Equivalent of 5 beers = 5 shots of 80 proof vodka.

It was the first time I'd had more than about 1.2 ounces of alcohol.

[Jolena]

Originally posted by Jesae
It was more like...My friends and I would come to my house at curfew, and attempt to sneak a 6-pack or bottle (we didn't do drugs, only drinking) up to my room. My mom would be awake, catch us...tell us we could drink as long as my friends' with cars gave up their keys and spent the night, and we disposed of the bottles in the morning.

It was more of..."You've been caught, if you stay within the house, you're okay."

Well, I don't see how 'You've been caught' would turn into 'you're okay if you stay in the house'. There is NO consequence in that scenario for you and your friend's actions. To me, that's not parenting.

[CrystalTears]

I agree with Jolena. I don't see why you would worry about getting caught by your mom since all she would do is make everyone stay overnight and continue drinking. Seems there are no consequences or punishment for drinking underage and trying to hide it. Not such a cool mom in my book.

Then again my mother was always paranoid since I'm her only child. She didn't like me drinking, going out alone with friends unless she knew them, didn't like me going to the beach unless it was with my father, feared the day I started driving and didn't allow me to until I was 18, and begged to walk me onto my first plane flight alone when I was 13. Hell she even refused to help me with college unless I stayed in Florida. She kinda made me a mama's girl so I felt helpless to do anything on my own.

I confided most things with my grandparents, mostly my grandfather, because for some reason, he really understood me and could explain things to me very well. I thank him for me turning out this way, open minded and all. He would let me have sips of his alcoholic beverages and wouldn't cover my eyes during the naughty parts. :D

[Edited on 3/25/2005 by CrystalTears]

[Shari]

I suppose we could have driven to the nearby park and slammed them, and then driven back to our prospective houses.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<and then driven back to our prospective houses.>>

Respective?

You could have done that, or just gone to your houses to begin with. Lawful drinking, etc.

[Jolena]

Or your mother could have caught you in the house, handed out some type of consequence so you realized that drinking underage is not acceptable and that she won't allow you or your friends to do such a thing. :shrug: There are all kinds of possibilities.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Jolena
Well, I don't see how 'You've been caught' would turn into 'you're okay if you stay in the house'. There is NO consequence in that scenario for you and your friend's actions. To me, that's not parenting. Just to play devils advocate for a minute. Had they not been caught with the alcohol they would have drank it anyway without her parents knowlege.
I think what makes the scenario bad is the fact that it wasn't only her daughter that would eventually consume the alcohol. If the friends parents didn't give consent... that's another issue altogether and one that could be considered very bad.

[Jolena]

You're right. There is no way to know all the time or control all the time what your children do. However what you DO have control over is what goes on in YOUR house where YOU pay bills and provide for YOUR child. So to allow your child to drink/do drugs/whatever in your house is telling your child that it's okay to do it. And yes, allowing someone ELSE's child or children to drink in your house is completely irresponsible.

Edited to add that no, I do not want my child to drink out in the park or at someone else's house. I'd prefer that they not drink at all until they are old enough to do so and are responsible. However, the solution to me is NOT to allow them to do it at home. If I don't condone drinking underage, why in the hell would I allow my child to do it in our house where my values should be foremost an example?!

[Edited on 3-25-2005 by Jolena]

[Shari]

It wasn't like she was waiting up for us to come home and pounce us and yell at us.

My point is, as a teenager, I was allowed the freedom to experiment, with a parent to monitor. I had plenty of friends who had parents that would abhor the thought of having their kids drink (just like a few of you do) and guess what? They did it anyway! Even with hawk-eye parents, my friends would say they're going to a friends house...they say they're walking down to the park, meet up with other friends who have alcohol, get drunk in park, in friend's car, etc.

Then there's always the flip-side. You shelter you kids away and make sure they do ABSOLUTELY nothing unless you're right by their side, you're constantly calling them, paging them, updates, updates, updates. They end up staying completely out of trouble, never drink, etc. They move out....BLAM! Let the experimentation without a monitor commence!

Generally, these are fresh-out-of-high-school or college kids. Even if they're still living at home they're 18 and technically and adult...sure they can risk being booted for ignoring curfew or being caught drunk/drinking, etc...or worse, they've moved into a dorm or apartment and who is watching them? Other people the same age doing the same thing???

By the time I moved out I knew the consequences for drinking. I'd go to parties with Scott and I would see some of these kids who let loose after HS and it was frightening to say the least. Scott and I made sure to take turns on the weekends on who would drink, and who would stay sober, and unfortunately I know way too many people we couldn't wrestle the keys away from and would drive away. (And calling the cops on them sadly wasn't very effective.)

I'm going to edit this in because Jolena did make a good point. My mother fucked up in the way that she let my friends drink too. She could have gotten in a lot of trouble for it. I did make it clear that I did not consider my mother a "perfect parent". However...I do think she (and my dad, lets not forget him!) did a good job in raising their children.

If and when I have kids? Sure, if my kids want to try alcohol within the confines of our house, sure. I'd rather have them at home being stupid then stressing to the point of throwing up wondering "Where are they, are they okay, is someone sober driving them home, will they call if they need a ride, etc..."

Will I allow my kids' friends' to drink? Well that depends entirely on the relationship I have with their parents. Hopefully I will have a very good, open relationship/friendship with them in the way my kids have with their friend. If they are okay with the concept of them drinking within my home and not going anywhere. Then fine, I'm breaking the law, and I'll be a shitty parent.

[Edited on 3-25-2005 by Jesae]

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Jesae
Then there's always the flip-side. You shelter you kids away and make sure they do ABSOLUTELY nothing unless you're right by their side, you're constantly calling them, paging them, updates, updates, updates. They end up staying completely out of trouble, never drink, etc. They move out....BLAM! Let the experimentation without a monitor commence!


Heh, I must admit, this was me. My mother sheltered me. A lot. When I graduated high school and went to college, I went wild and hid it quite well from her.

I was partying all the time, and since she trusted my best friend, he and I were an inseparable team, going out all the time, having parties in his apartment, getting stoned/drunk, going to bars where our friends' worked and getting free booze... and at the end of the evening I walked in quietly and went to bed.

She never said or asked me anything about what I did. So either she realized I was an adult and didn't feel like prying, or was ignorant of it all.

[Brattt8525]

Clearly this whole conversation is leaving Bratt with an uncontrollable twitch near the corner of her left eye. Perhaps you should stop responding.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No twitch going on here Jesae, try again.

Dev as far as your comment, if I do not know my underage children are drinking, how the fuck would I be considered unfit? If I am allowing my underage kids and their friends to drink in my home that is unfit parenting. I think I will call CPS just to see what the actual laws are. I have heard some of you say it is ok <legal> to drink in your parents home with their knowledge and it isn't grounds for any intervention I would like to know if that is actually true.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<I have heard some of you say it is ok <legal> to drink in your parents home with their knowledge and it isn't grounds for any intervention I would like to know if that is actually true.>>

No, it's not okay to drink with your parents' knowledge.

It's okay to drink when your parents give you the alcohol.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
Dev as far as your comment, if I do not know my underage children are drinking, how the fuck would I be considered unfit? Very easily, using your logic, though that is not what I am labeling you or any other parent out there that allows that to happen in their home or is unaware of it altogether. As a parent/guardian you are suppoed to be responsible for your underage child always unless there are some limits to responsibility that I am unaware of.

So, if you don't know that your underage child is drinking and doing God knows what else, how does that make you as a parent any better than one who knows exactly that and monitors the behavior as well?

Parents arn't stupid, CT.

- Arkans

[Jadewolff]

Originally posted by DeV
So, if you don't know that your underage child is drinking and doing God knows what else, how does that make you as a parent any better than one who knows exactly that and monitors the behavior as well?

I needed to post to strongly agree with this statement.

[Shari]

You are sometimes so optimistic Arkans its frightening.


I have met some very, very stupid parents in my day.

When I speak, I speak in generalities. That's almost as saying, "DID YOU REALLY INTERVIEW EACH PARENT TO SEE IF THEY ARE STUPID!?!?!"..

I'll rephrase..

"Fit parents are not stupid, CT"

- Arkans

[Bobmuhthol]

<<if you don't know that your underage child is drinking and doing God knows what else, how does that make you as a parent any better than one who knows exactly that and monitors the behavior as well?>>

God forbid a child knows how to not be retarded.

Examples:
my parents don't know I've smoked marijuana
my parents don't know I've smoked tobacco
my parents don't know I've consumed vodka, rum, and gin

They're so unfit!

[Brattt8525]

Well I just got off the phone with CPS, while they would not say directly it is against the law as they are not police officers she did say if they were informed of a situation as I described it there would most assuredly be a CPS person knockling on the door.

Dev I did not ever say I was a better parent, show me where I even alluded to that. Your analogy isn't working anyway in that last post, seeing as the woman knew/knows they are drinking, but hey do it here its safer.

[Edited on 3-25-2005 by Brattt8525]

My mother is an awesome mother. She does not know I've done more drugs than most rock stars. This does not make her unfit. It just means I've made some not so stellar choices in my life.

- Arkans

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Well I just got off the phone with CPS>>

Someone's gone too far.

<<while they would not say directly it is against the law as they are not police officers she did say if they were informed of a situation as I described it there would most assuredly be a CPS person knockling on the door.>>

That's funny, because there's a clause in the drinking laws specifically stating anyone who serves alcohol to their child in a private residence is exempt from charges of providing alcohol to a minor. That has nothing to do with causing harm to the child or it being reported.

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<Well I just got off the phone with CPS>>

Someone's gone too far.

<<while they would not say directly it is against the law as they are not police officers she did say if they were informed of a situation as I described it there would most assuredly be a CPS person knockling on the door.>>

That's funny, because there's a clause in the drinking laws specifically stating anyone who serves alcohol to their child in a private residence is exempt from charges of providing alcohol to a minor. That has nothing to do with causing harm to the child or it being reported.

Why is going to the source and asking a hypothetical question going to far Bob? I can spout all the things I THINK CPS would do or I could actually ask them. Did I say OMG FUCKING GOD THERES THIS CHICK.......blah blah blha NO I asked them a question and they were very nice in providing the info.

[Edited on 3-25-2005 by Brattt8525]

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Why is going to the source and asking a hypothical question going to far Bob?>>

Because nobody cares more than anything. There's no reason to call them over it.

<<I can spout all the things I THINK CPS would do or I could actually ask them.>>

You're the only person that has said anything about CPS.

<<Did I say OMG FUCKING GOD THERES THIS CHICK.......blah blah blha NO I asked them a question and they were very nice in providing the info.>>

Cool. You had no real reason to.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Arkans
When I speak, I speak in generalities. That's almost as saying, "DID YOU REALLY INTERVIEW EACH PARENT TO SEE IF THEY ARE STUPID!?!?!"..

I'll rephrase..

"Fit parents are not stupid, CT"

- Arkans

I never said they were.

I'm not kidding when I say that I feel that my my mother WAS ignorant of what I did during college. Perhaps her sisters told her what was possible, but since they would tell me that she's a fuddy duddy, I don't think so.

My aunts were cheering me on the day I lost my virginity, congratulating me when I had sex with my best friend at the age of 17. My mother would have grounded me. My mother cried the day I started using tampons (sorry guys) because now I'm a dirty girl and not a virgin. I had a birthday party once when I was 12, she overheard someone say "a fair", confused it with "affair" and sent them all home. The day I got my tattoo when I was 21, my grandmother shrugged, my grandfather said "as long as it's not a tattooe of the soul" (heh, he's rather spiritual), my mother got teary-eyed and didn't look directly at me for over a year, and when she did would ask me when I was taking it off.

I love my mother but if it weren't for my aunts and grandparents, I would be worse off right now.

[Edited on 3/25/2005 by CrystalTears]

[DeV]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol
<<if you don't know that your underage child is drinking and doing God knows what else, how does that make you as a parent any better than one who knows exactly that and monitors the behavior as well?>>

God forbid a child knows how to not be retarded.

Examples:
my parents don't know I've smoked marijuana
my parents don't know I've smoked tobacco
my parents don't know I've consumed vodka, rum, and gin

They're so unfit! Thank you for making my point. :)

Wow, I lose, you were hella sheltered.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

I occassionally drank, supervised, in the home before I was 21. Much earlier, in fact. I drink rarely these days.

Then again I had the example of four alcoholic grandparents to discourage me from becoming an alcoholic. I know the addictive tendencies are there, but seeing how much it messed all of them up has probably been the biggest discouragement.

I don't think my parents knew about all the hacking or drugs I did in high school, even though my father did a fair amount when he was growing up and my mother did a little. I think not knowing about the hacking and leaving me alone on the net was probably worse than the fact that I did drugs.

UR 4 l33t h4x0r.

In all seriousness, I think enviroment plays a huge role. All throughout high school my friends were drops outs, drug users, and addicts. Not the greatest. Thus, I did a lot of that. No amount of parenting would have stopped me.

- Arkans

[Jolena]

I don't know, I guess for me it just boils down to what type of example I wish to set for my children. I will not ever allow them to drink/do drugs etc. in my home because to me that is the one place where I have total control over what they do and what type of examples I set. I'm sure I will make mistakes over the years with my three children however they will always know they are loved, have what they need, and see a good example from their parents. That is the most I can do for them as a parent, in my opinion.

[Warriorbird]

I think being fanatically anti alcohol while drinking yourself is detrimental. My best friend growing up got some pretty messed up ideas from that. Alcohol has always been this highly desireable thing to him. I never felt it was anything cool. I also grew up seeing the process of making it at my grandfather's vineyard, which may've had an effect as well.

[Apathy]

Anyone live in Wisconsin? I grew up there when it was legal for a child of any age to be in a bar. It was also legal for a parent (or guardian) to buy a drink and give it to the child in that bar. Was wondering if thats still true.

I had old fashioned discipline growing up. I don't hate my parents for spanking me, I don't even hold it against them. I won't do it because I know it just taught me to not get caught.

If a kid steals a donut or smokes a cigarette or drinks a beer it doesn't make the parents bad parents. If the kid shoots up his school the parents need to be talked to.

Whats the saying? What you hide from your parents as kids you will hide from your kids as parents.

[Warriorbird]

I went to college there. Has some of the laxest alcohol enforcement attitudes anywhere. Lienenklugels is also very very tasty.

[Apathy]

Yeah, Madison is a great college town. Don't know if that's where you went but GOD DAMN that place is fun.

On topic, my point is most Cheeseheads get to know alcohol at a young age through their parents, but it's more like a cultural thing. Kinda like Europe in a way.

And liene's rocks.

[Warriorbird]

I went to Beloit but hung out with friends in Madison a lot and later worked there. Madison's one of my favorite cities in the country.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Arkans
UR 4 l33t h4x0r.

In all seriousness, I think enviroment plays a huge role. All throughout high school my friends were drops outs, drug users, and addicts. Not the greatest. Thus, I did a lot of that. No amount of parenting would have stopped me.

- Arkans

I have to disagree with this. Put a weak person in a bad environment and he/she might be affected but someone of strong will should feel slight to no change as a result of environment.

I had plenty of friends doing pot thru coke, skipping, etc. I was still friends with them for their other qualities but I never did that shit nor and I think I missed 1 day of school from like 6-12 grade.

Character defines what, if anything, you should draw from an envrionment. Character that is molded or instilled from your parents early on. Early on when you are that weak willed being that is a product of that particular parented environment.

[Kyra]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I never said they were.

I'm not kidding when I say that I feel that my my mother WAS ignorant of what I did during college. Perhaps her sisters told her what was possible, but since they would tell me that she's a fuddy duddy, I don't think so.

My aunts were cheering me on the day I lost my virginity, congratulating me when I had sex with my best friend at the age of 17. My mother would have grounded me. My mother cried the day I started using tampons (sorry guys) because now I'm a dirty girl and not a virgin. I had a birthday party once when I was 12, she overheard someone say "a fair", confused it with "affair" and sent them all home. The day I got my tattoo when I was 21, my grandmother shrugged, my grandfather said "as long as it's not a tattooe of the soul" (heh, he's rather spiritual), my mother got teary-eyed and didn't look directly at me for over a year, and when she did would ask me when I was taking it off.

I love my mother but if it weren't for my aunts and grandparents, I would be worse off right now.

[Edited on 3/25/2005 by CrystalTears]

Holy crap, I'm sorry...that is a case of WAY over-sheltering. Not saying your mom is "bad" per se, just a little overboard.

K.

Bob I'm curious where this law is, I have never seen or heard that parents can serve alcohol to their children.

[Ryenn]

I totally disagree with the people who are saying that it's ok to let your kids engage in stupid activities such as drinking/drugs.

[Alfster]

Originally posted by Apathy
Anyone live in Wisconsin? I grew up there when it was legal for a child of any age to be in a bar. It was also legal for a parent (or guardian) to buy a drink and give it to the child in that bar. Was wondering if thats still true.

Yeah, I live in Wisconsin and yes it is legal for parents to bring their kids into a bar and it is also legal for them to buy alcohol for their kids at the bar or for at home. In fact, the parents just have to be at the bar, the parents don't even have to buy the beer for him, the kids can buy it themselves.

My old man told me that when I was six he gave me a sip of his beer because he figured I'd hate it. When I started asking for more was when he knew I was going to be a problem.

*edited to add this

You called CPS???

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

Wow.

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH

[Edited on 3-25-2005 by Alfster]

[Sean]

I may be an idiot by ryenn's standards but I can say I enjoy my life and wouldn't trade it in to be a teen millionaire.

I've never considered my mother to be a bad parent. She always taught me to be honest and straight forward and to accept the consequences of my actions. In doing so she allowed me to get away with some things because we had a certain level of trust between us and a great level of communication and honesty.

[StrayRogue]

I guess you and me both can be idiots together then Tijay as I wouldn't trade my upbringing for anything either.

[StrayRogue]

16 - 22 Were/are the best years of my life. Never had such a good time in my life and I certainly wouldn't trade it for anything.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Bob I'm curious where this law is, I have never seen or heard that parents can serve alcohol to their children.>>

I don't know where it is anymore, and it may vary by state. I know Massachusetts law pretty well, and distinctly remember that clause. The details of it were that it had to be in your own home and to your own children, basically.

Tough choice.. I'd probably not go with the teen millionare route. I have my whole life to do that. Being young is for being young. There are some things you should experience when growing up (not drugs, of course), but just the college experience and all that. Once you grow up, there is no going back.

- Arkans

[Warriorbird]

Being a teen millionaire would've been nice. I'm curious what field it was in, however. I wouldn't like to be a washed up gay porn star at 22 for example, child star, drug dealer, or sales professional of any type.

I still don't think I'd trade it for some of the experiences I had or struggles I went through. They define me. The millions can wait till 30 or 35.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah. Killing yourself at sales is a path I wouldn't like, but you will definitely see benefits. Non conservative parenting could've also gotten you there however. One of the two millionaires my age I know has one of the most dissipated families ever. They're also one of the most charismatic. Ironically, he made it in the same field you did, real estate. Family connections were probably very important for both of you... plenty of people with conservative families are dirt poor or failiures....

My second cousin is also a multi multi millionaire. He's about three times my age. He was very strict on his son. His son's been in and out of jail for years, and married three times.

[Edited on 3-26-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Sean]

Best route to take ... for you. Not everyone considers accumulation of wealth to be the mark of success or good parenting.

[StrayRogue]

You're only young once.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Ryenn
I never said that the accumulation of wealth was a mark of success or of good parenting. That is why I stated conservative parenting would be the best regardless of what career path the child/children chose to take. That could include college or not, real estate or not, being a circus clown or not, etc. I simply used myself as an example because accumulation of wealth is what I chose as a "career path."

None of those things are exclusive to conservative parenting. Which is why I said it was the best route for you. I'm not in anyway knocking the decisions you made or the career path you chose to take obviously your parents conservative style worked for you. Me personally I think my mother lax but honest approach worked best for me. And I'm sure theres many other styles that worked for many other people. Just like you can find examples of failures in almost every style of parenting. There is no 'best' way to parent.

[Edited on 3-26-2005 by Tijay]

[Ryenn]

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Ryenn
I never said that the accumulation of wealth was a mark of success or of good parenting. That is why I stated conservative parenting would be the best regardless of what career path the child/children chose to take. That could include college or not, real estate or not, being a circus clown or not, etc. I simply used myself as an example because accumulation of wealth is what I chose as a "career path."

None of those things are exclusive to conservative parenting. Which is why I said it was the best route for you. I'm not in anyway knocking the decisions you made or the career path you chose to take obviously your parents conservative style worked for you. Me personally I think my mother lax but honest approach worked best for me. And I'm sure theres many other styles that worked for many other people. Just like you can find examples of failures in almost every style of parenting. There is no 'best' way to parent.

[Edited on 3-26-2005 by Tijay]

You are correct on many points, however I will never concede my belief that children who succeed in environments where they are allowed to drink/do drugs do so *in spite of* rather than *because of*.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
I think I missed 1 day of school from like 6-12 grade.I missed 4 (all in 12th grade, of course), but 3 were for family business, so I don't feel too bad. Chalk one up for conservative, nonphysical parenting!
Originally posted by Ryenn
If you are an alcoholic/drug addict you are a shitty parentWTF? Alcoholism is a disease, like sickle cell anemia. If one doesn't indulge in it in front of one's kids, one is that much stronger than a parent without alcoholism.

Also, I'd guess a guy who tokes once in awhile would be a better parent than a guy who works 7 days a week.

[StrayRogue]

[i]Originally posted by Latrinsorm

Also, I'd guess a guy who tokes once in awhile would be a better parent than a guy who works 7 days a week.

Totally agree.

[Alfster]

Also, I'd guess a guy who tokes once in awhile would be a better parent than a guy who plays gemstone for 8 hours a day.

[Apotheosis]

We all made our mistakes in life, sure, our parents are to blame for some of the problems, but, they cannot 'stop' us from doing anything, just tell us how things are, that there are consequences for our actions, etc....

the problem kicks in with parents who shouldn't have been allowed to reproduce in the first place...

people should be forced to take classes, get a permit from a psychologist, before they're allowed to have kids.. that way we can prevent some fucked up people from reproducing.

Oh, and about Jesae's parents, I'm sure they're fine, they are realistic about behavior kids will engage them, and instead of trying to 'shelter' them from it, teach them how to be responsible..

I got the majority of partying out of the way in highschool, and when I came to college, was better equipped to deal with the stuff that goes on in campus life.

[Apotheosis]

On conservative parenting, the kids who grow up in supposed 'conservative' households are the ones who are more fucked up in the end.. it's the truth.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by Yswithe
On conservative parenting, the kids who grow up in supposed 'conservative' households are the ones who are more fucked up in the end.. it's the truth. I'm sure you have plenty of scientific studies to back that statement up, I'll settle for seeing two or three.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Ryenn

As for a guy who tokes "once and awhile" being a better parent than someone who works 7 days a week - I believe this is totally false. People who feel the need to break the law "once in awhile" for absolutely no good reason at all other than to "get high" would in no way, shape, or form be considered a "good parent" in my mind.

Are we only talking about raising children in the US? Because this isn't illegal everywhere.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Marijuana, like alcoholism, has side effects.>>

I hope you mean alcohol and not alcoholism.

<<It has also been my experience that people who smoke pot on a regular basis don't do so "once in awhile.">>

How about that. People who smoke all the time do it more often than rarely. You're a sharp one.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Alcohol, or alcoholism, have side effects. In either case, I believe your English teacher would approve of my usage of the word "alcoholism." Why don't you ask her at school on Monday?>>

My English teacher is a man. And I'm not the one comparing a drug to an addiction.

Knives, like cancer, have side effects.

<<As a side note, I'm pretty sure you knew what I meant in both cases, and were merely pointing those few sentences out to be a douche bag. If that's the case, way to go.>>

For someone with such stellar English, I thought you'd know where to put a proposition. Douche bag.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<As for people smoking "on a regular basis" I meant people who smoke "once in awhile" still do so on a regular basis (be it once a day, once a month, or once a year) in that they are doing something in a repetitive manner. To me, that would classify something being done on a regular basis. Next time I will clarify for people like you who obviously can't comprehend such simple statements.>>

Once a day is not "once in a while." You obviously can't comprehend such a simple concept. Like I said:


How about that. People who smoke all the time do it more often than rarely. You're a sharp one.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Alcohol, or alcoholism, have side effects.>>

Your English continues to amaze me! You can't even conjugate a fucking verb.

[Brattt8525]

Posted by Jesae.

I have what most people call "a cool mom".

I think that constitutes a parent who can out-drink their college-attending children, smoke weed, and still execute fair judgements on the parenting as well.

Luckily, my mom never cared that myself, or any of my younger siblings drank so long as we: were at least 15, around for her to monitor our drinking, and had no intention of leaking this information to my dad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just thought that needed to be put in here seeing as this is a thread about what we think about proper parenting/not good parenting.

[Brattt8525]

Ryenn getting into a battle of wits with Bob will only prove to make you bang your head on your desk. He is very smart and will take the smallest thing no one else happens to catch and argue it into the ground.

Cut him some slack he is a good guy.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<Are you going to edit preposition Bob or just leave it misspelled like that?>>

Are you going to address me in a proper manner, Ryenn, or just continue to disregard grammar while correcting my grammar?

[Sean]

Originally posted by Brattt8525
Posted by Jesae.

I have what most people call "a cool mom".

I think that constitutes a parent who can out-drink their college-attending children, smoke weed, and still execute fair judgements on the parenting as well.

Luckily, my mom never cared that myself, or any of my younger siblings drank so long as we: were at least 15, around for her to monitor our drinking, and had no intention of leaking this information to my dad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just thought that needed to be put in here seeing as this is a thread about what we think about proper parenting/not good parenting.

She already clarified most of those points in this thread.

[Bobmuhthol]

Existence.

Anyway, it's funny that you say that when I pointed out a logic flaw, as opposed to actually correcting your English.

What was the other thing? You saying someone who smokes on a regular basis does so more than just once in a while? That has the same weight as me saying you're retarded on a regular basis, and in my experience, you do it more than once in a while.

[Bobmuhthol]

<<The fact that he then misspelled a simple word only adds to his blatant stupidity and lack of social existance.>>

I didn't misspell a word. I inadvertently used the wrong word, you dumb fuck. Not understanding this only adds to your blatant stupidity.

[Bobmuhthol]

You worked for your father. Real big accomplishment.

For a millionaire, you sure suck at having a good life. Justifying your life by posting about how much money you have and how hard you work on a message board makes you the cat's pajamas without a doubt.

[Sean]

Instead of snipping between the two of you over spelling or sentence structure I'm asking that we get back to the topic of parenting.

[Bobmuhthol]

Ryenn, check the previous posts in this thread. I've said what I have to say and never did so under the pretense of being a parent. If you're interested in shutting the fuck up, I know where you can go to accomplish it.

[Bobmuhthol]

:lol2: This is too much. [You are] So, so dumb.

[Bobmuhthol]

Nobody really cares, though. Your post is almost as useless as this one explaining it.

[Kyra]

Originally posted by Ryenn
You know what? You're right Bob. I'm the stupid one. When you've accomplished 1/10th of what I have socially, financially, or otherwise come talk to me. Till then go back to correcting your homework and hoping your ugly ass might actually get laid one of these days.

[Edited on 3-26-2005 by Ryenn]

Nah, he's just hoping to get away with dragging a girl off somewhere & raping her someday :D

Bragging about wealth, social circles, or anything of the like over the internet is about as cool as a fat hairy man in a speedo.

- Arkans

[Shari]

Originally posted by Tijay

Originally posted by Brattt8525
Posted by Jesae.

I have what most people call "a cool mom".

I think that constitutes a parent who can out-drink their college-attending children, smoke weed, and still execute fair judgements on the parenting as well.

Luckily, my mom never cared that myself, or any of my younger siblings drank so long as we: were at least 15, around for her to monitor our drinking, and had no intention of leaking this information to my dad.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just thought that needed to be put in here seeing as this is a thread about what we think about proper parenting/not good parenting.

She already clarified most of those points in this thread.

Please explain to me what the the point was of throwing that in halfway through this entire squabble? As Tijay said, its been dealt with.

If you are still irked about my point of view on things, please put your glove on and get back in the game. We're in the eight inning, not the third.

And in response to Arkans above post:

HAHAHAHAHAHA, HAHAHAHA, HAHAHAHA

[LadyLuck]

So, we have A LOT of diversity here on this subject. Too bad we don't have as much maturity or open-mindedness on the subject that was started.

Parents come in all ranges, from all experiences, as we are or will (might) be parents of all types of beliefs.

Not gonna lend my story. Just wish for some open minds to *hear* others.

- Lady Luck

[Alfster]

I have a friend who was raised by his hippy of a mom and her girlfriend. Strangely enough, he turned out alright even with the most fucked up home situation I have ever seen. I think he did well in school just so he wouldn't have to deal with it anymore.

He's no millionaire, but he does alright.