Archery Update Design Plans

[MokiePrime]

Earlier tonight GM Naijin linked a Google Doc containing planned updates to archery. You can locate it here: https://bit.ly/39V3E77

Goal
The intent of this design is to make improvements to the quality of life of archery, increase the effectiveness of crossbows, slightly tune the power of archery, improve fletching, and to give a clear path of upgrades for project pieces. Additionally, we would like to add more combat options available to archery so it has more options than aiming at eyes.

Note: This design document is considered approved but changes may continue to happen up until release.

Quality of Life Improvements

The main pain points of archery are:

Ammo management, gathering, and generic changes.
Command entry, specifically for crossbows, is cumbersome.


Ammo Changes


The current system in place for managing ammo is not fun, it’s riddled with bundling issues (blessing, e-blades, etc), and offers no room for project pieces. We plan to fix this by:
Making new types of bundles that are bottomless, that is, they never need to be replenished.
Bundles will take temporary enhancements like 304 and 411, and can also be charged with fletched arrows for additional benefit. Charges stay with the bundle and function identical to melee weapons.
Fired ammo is now intended to be disposable. The GATHER system is no longer necessary.
Ammo bundles purchased from shops will be 0x and non-magical, but very cheap.
Bundles can alternatively be made into functional wearable items that make sense to store arrows and bolts in.
Arrows are able to lodge into their target but if they lack the force to do so they will shatter instead. There’s potential here to allow for customized player messaging for arrows shattering.
Bodkin arrows will be added as a new type of ammo with crush/slash damage.
Bundles will have a flat encumbrance of 2lbs.


Command Entry

The new system will utilize the READY system and you longer have to retrieve an arrow. Simply FIRE, and the ammo will be pulled automatically.
Crossbows will follow a similar system and become more comparable to bows. See the crossbow section below for more information.

Increase the Effectiveness of Crossbows

Crossbows are rarely used due to the speed, DS, and command advantages of bows. Crossbows will be tweaked to reduce their overall roundtime but will maintain their niche as a more accurate and more damaging weapon at the cost of overall speed and defense.


The new command system will be similar to archery. LOAD disappears entirely and COCK/FIRE will be rolled into fire itself with a combined RT for all actions.
Alternatively, you can still COCK and FIRE a crossbow separately if you choose to.
Crossbows will keep their reduced DS, aiming skill bonus (+5 standing, +20 kneeling), and AS bonus (+30 while kneeling) to differentiate them as a slower precision style weapon.
Crossbow RT will be reduced to 4 seconds for light and 5 seconds for heavy, regardless of aiming or hiding. If cock is used separately it takes 2 seconds and the remaining RT is used on fire. e.g., cock for 2 seconds, fire in 2 seconds for a light crossbow. The minimum roundtime for all bows with enough strength remains at 3 seconds (even while aiming or sniping).
The capped AIM chance for crossbows will be increased by 5% (from 75% to 80% for eyes, other locations vary).
Crossbows will receive a flat 5% bonus to remaining hidden while sniping.
The chance to be revealed from hiding while COCKing will be removed since it’s already handled during FIRE.


This change firmly plants crossbows as the more offensive weapon at a cost of speed and defense.

Archery Tuning


Ammo management is the only check (albeit a poor one) to the strength of archery. The quality of life improvements means archery needs a slight tweak to bring it more inline with the power of other forms of combat physical combat.
Basic arrows will be changed from 100% puncture to puncture/slash (primarily puncture).
Enchant will be removed from arrows.
Bodkin arrows will be added and will be crush/slash damage (primarily crush).



Improve Fletching

Fletching is primarily used as a customization tool for arrows, is slow


A bundle of 20 or more fletched arrows can be converted to a new style bottomless ammo bundle. Arrows fired from the bottomless bundle will take on the description of the fletched arrows.
Fletched arrows can be added to the bottomless ammo which will give an equivalent number of shots of +5 AvD. This bonus is flat at all ranks. Higher ranks of fletching will increase the speed at which you fletch arrows.
The time to fletch a single arrow will be drastically reduced.
Bodkin arrow heads will be added to the fletching stores as a way to fletch bodkin arrows.



Give a clear path of upgrades for project pieces

Archery is the only system in the game that allows two separate pieces of gear to dictate the total enchant of the weapon. This means most archers stop upgrading their bow at 5x or 6x enchants and bows have limited upgrades available. Arrows are eventually lost and are a poor candidate for upgrades because of this.


Ranged weapons will be the target of project pieces and enchant will be removed from arrows. This gives a reason to push bow enchants up to 10x. Ranged weapons should take all the upgrades that melee weapons do.
Ranged weapons will accept ensorcell, enchant, sighting, flares, blesses, and scripts.
Arrow bundles are meant to be interchangeable with your hunting needs. For example, you can have a fire flaring bow and use an ice flaring bundle of arrows to hunt fire immune creatures. In the same area you could use blessed arrows to kill the undead.



Improving Archery Options


CMAN MFIRE will be moved to a MFIRE verb that functions similarly to MSTRIKE. MoC rank thresholds, targets, and roundtimes are the same as melee. Bows have a 7/6/5 base RT. Crossbow times are still TBD.



New Combat Maneuvers

Truehand will now function with archery and be renamed True Strike.

Skill Name: True Strike
Mnemonic: truestrike
Hostile: Yes
Stamina Cost: Base 10. Additional stamina costs are determined by the Base Weapon Speed of your attack. A stamina penalty of +1 per second of base speed is applied for each second under 5 and +2 for each second over 5. For two weapon combat, an effective Base Weapon Speed is calculated by taking the primary weapon's base speed, adding half the secondary weapon's base speed (rounded up), and adding 1 to the result. The minimum stamina cost is 10.
Other Requirements: Cannot be used from hiding.
Available to: Warriors, Rogues, Rangers, Bards, Monks, Paladins.
Prerequisites:
None
CMP Cost:
Rank 1: (Squares) 2 (Semis) 3
Rank 2: (Squares) 4 (Semis) 6
Rank 3: (Squares) 6 (Semis) 9
Rank 4: (Squares) 8 (Semis) 12
Rank 5: (Squares) 10 (Semis) 15
Description: Increases the chance to hit your target for one attack. At Rank 1, True Strike changes the standard attack d100 roll to 20 + d80 and reduces the target's chances of evading, parrying, and/or blocking your attack by 10%. Each additional rank adds 10 to your combat roll (d80, d70, d60, d50, d40) and reduces your opponent's evasion, parry, and blocking ability by a further 10%.

New Dislodge maneuver.

Skill Name: Dislodge
Mnemonic: dislodge
Hostile: Yes
Stamina Cost: Base 15 (-5 Rank 1, -3 Rank 2)
Other Requirements: An empty hand.
Available to: Warriors, Rogues, Rangers, Bards, Monks, Paladins.
Prerequisites:
None
CMP Cost:
Rank 1: (Squares) 2 (Semis) 3
Rank 2: (Squares) 4 (Semis) 6
Rank 3: (Squares) 6 (Semis) 9
Rank 4: (Squares) 8 (Semis) 12
Rank 5: (Squares) 10 (Semis) 15
Description: Attempt to violently retrieve ranged ammo or a hurled weapon that has been lodged in your target. Successful attempts will place the weapon in hand.

Archery Related Scripted Items

Affected
Compartmentalized Quiver
Mechanical Bow/Crossbow

Not affected
Wand Bow
Mechanical Quiver
Spirit Glove, not affected
Elemental Bow, not affected
Poison Bow, not affected
Duplicating Quiver
Trueshot Quiver
Witchwood Quiver
Racial Sighted Bows

[Taernath]

Digging the ammo management changes.

Not sure about the enchant changes. A lot of my bows/xbows are going from top of the line to pRoJeCt PiEcEs. Same with fletching. All that time spent for +5 AvD?

[MokiePrime]

Yeah, all fletched arrows get the +5 AvD regardless of the fletcher's skill. Also not super stoked about the enchant loss for arrows. Naijin insists that ranged AS is still viable with the missing AS, but I dunno. I worry it will disproportionately affect lower level characters. And yeah, I've actually been ranking up fletching and have made it to 497 ranks. Now I guess I don't really need to grab those last three ranks before I start making arrows for real. And I have project bow that's going to cost a small fortune to enchant up, because enhansives. Yay?

[Izzy]

Digging the ammo management changes.

Not sure about the enchant changes. A lot of my bows/xbows are going from top of the line to pRoJeCt PiEcEs. Same with fletching. All that time spent for +5 AvD?

The +5 AvD effectively increases the cap to 11x with a 10x bow. Pretty nice IMO. Also I think the enchant changes are reasonable, I've never struggled with AS as a ranger, and I don't even have ambush trained. Plus, my bow is already 7x for the DS bonus and for greater ease of use of ebladed arrows. That said, I wouldn't mind some +ranged AS adjustments in the ranger spell circle somewhere :D

[Winter]

Naijin is one of the best things ever to happen to GS, he along with Tillmen and whoever hosts these boards all deserve a thoroughly decent person award.

[Fryinhades]

I think this change will definitely hamper mutant archer types. Especially in the sense of the enchant and loss of true strike as well. I find it very difficult seeing these types of people to be able to hunt easily. My mage currently at almost 66 trains shoots a longbow at 393 AS with heroism and bravery running as well as all other spells available to him and col signs. He has both a 6x and 7x bow available to him, so the loss of 15-20 AS might be rough. We will have to see and test. At this point my ranger seems to be almost on par with my mage in self spelled as/ds and hes 35 levels lower. At this point I could take my ranger to hunt red forest vipers and boars with him and he should do absolutely fine.

No ammo management would make it easier for group hunting and sniping from shadows since they wont have to wait for you to gather. Time will tell. Putting a sigil script on my bow or some other type of script could be interesting but time will tell

[drumpel]

Sure, fix ranged.....but where's the love for thrown?

I don't use either, but I've learned from SJW asshats that regardless of the good things that are happening, you still need to bitch about the things that aren't getting fixed. Especially when those things that aren't getting fixed have zero impact on your life.

[Donquix]

I think this change will definitely hamper mutant archer types. Especially in the sense of the enchant and loss of true strike as well. I find it very difficult seeing these types of people to be able to hunt easily. My mage currently at almost 66 trains shoots a longbow at 393 AS with heroism and bravery running as well as all other spells available to him and col signs. He has both a 6x and 7x bow available to him, so the loss of 15-20 AS might be rough. We will have to see and test. At this point my ranger seems to be almost on par with my mage in self spelled as/ds and hes 35 levels lower. At this point I could take my ranger to hunt red forest vipers and boars with him and he should do absolutely fine.

No ammo management would make it easier for group hunting and sniping from shadows since they wont have to wait for you to gather. Time will tell. Putting a sigil script on my bow or some other type of script could be interesting but time will tell

10-15 AS as you'll get the AvD bonus from fletching, which is going to effectively be like 5 raw damage or less against anything not in cloth. It sucks losing AS but i think most people would trade 10-15 AS for a self-ammo 7x bow these days so....you'll live.


Sure, fix ranged.....but where's the love for thrown?

I don't use either.

Thrown is slated for similar changes. Bundles of "throwing hammer", "throwing axes", etc.as weapons, ability to mstrike, all that jazz.

[Archigeek]

Thrown needs it worse than ranged. Basically thrown is burdensome unless you have a returner.

[Orthin]

I think this change will definitely hamper mutant archer types. Especially in the sense of the enchant and loss of true strike as well. I find it very difficult seeing these types of people to be able to hunt easily. My mage currently at almost 66 trains shoots a longbow at 393 AS with heroism and bravery running as well as all other spells available to him and col signs. He has both a 6x and 7x bow available to him, so the loss of 15-20 AS might be rough. We will have to see and test. At this point my ranger seems to be almost on par with my mage in self spelled as/ds and hes 35 levels lower. At this point I could take my ranger to hunt red forest vipers and boars with him and he should do absolutely fine.

No ammo management would make it easier for group hunting and sniping from shadows since they wont have to wait for you to gather. Time will tell. Putting a sigil script on my bow or some other type of script could be interesting but time will tell

Assuming 411 will still work so there should be no gap lost for you AS wise

[drumpel]

10-15 AS as you'll get the AvD bonus from fletching, which is going to effectively be like 5 raw damage or less against anything not in cloth. It sucks losing AS but i think most people would trade 10-15 AS for a self-ammo 7x bow these days so....you'll live.



Thrown is slated for similar changes. Bundles of "throwing hammer", "throwing axes", etc.as weapons, ability to mstrike, all that jazz.

Hopefully they can make nets and bolas useful as actual thrown weapons - remove them from the AS/DS aspect and move them use SMRv2 to properly entangle/trip/ensnare/root/bind targets.

[BriarFox]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
...
IIICCCEE

[mgoddess]

Earlier tonight GM Naijin linked a Google Doc containing planned updates to archery. You can locate it here: https://bit.ly/39V3E77

Goal
The intent of this design is to make improvements to the quality of life of archery, increase the effectiveness of crossbows, slightly tune the power of archery, improve fletching, and to give a clear path of upgrades for project pieces. Additionally, we would like to add more combat options available to archery so it has more options than aiming at eyes.

Note: This design document is considered approved but changes may continue to happen up until release.

Quality of Life Improvements

The main pain points of archery are:

Ammo management, gathering, and generic changes.
Command entry, specifically for crossbows, is cumbersome.


Ammo Changes


The current system in place for managing ammo is not fun, it’s riddled with bundling issues (blessing, e-blades, etc), and offers no room for project pieces. We plan to fix this by:
Making new types of bundles that are bottomless, that is, they never need to be replenished.
Bundles will take temporary enhancements like 304 and 411, and can also be charged with fletched arrows for additional benefit. Charges stay with the bundle and function identical to melee weapons.
Fired ammo is now intended to be disposable. The GATHER system is no longer necessary.
Ammo bundles purchased from shops will be 0x and non-magical, but very cheap.
Bundles can alternatively be made into functional wearable items that make sense to store arrows and bolts in.
Arrows are able to lodge into their target but if they lack the force to do so they will shatter instead. There’s potential here to allow for customized player messaging for arrows shattering.
Bodkin arrows will be added as a new type of ammo with crush/slash damage.
Bundles will have a flat encumbrance of 2lbs.


Command Entry

The new system will utilize the READY system and you longer have to retrieve an arrow. Simply FIRE, and the ammo will be pulled automatically.
Crossbows will follow a similar system and become more comparable to bows. See the crossbow section below for more information.

Increase the Effectiveness of Crossbows

Crossbows are rarely used due to the speed, DS, and command advantages of bows. Crossbows will be tweaked to reduce their overall roundtime but will maintain their niche as a more accurate and more damaging weapon at the cost of overall speed and defense.


The new command system will be similar to archery. LOAD disappears entirely and COCK/FIRE will be rolled into fire itself with a combined RT for all actions.
Alternatively, you can still COCK and FIRE a crossbow separately if you choose to.
Crossbows will keep their reduced DS, aiming skill bonus (+5 standing, +20 kneeling), and AS bonus (+30 while kneeling) to differentiate them as a slower precision style weapon.
Crossbow RT will be reduced to 4 seconds for light and 5 seconds for heavy, regardless of aiming or hiding. If cock is used separately it takes 2 seconds and the remaining RT is used on fire. e.g., cock for 2 seconds, fire in 2 seconds for a light crossbow. The minimum roundtime for all bows with enough strength remains at 3 seconds (even while aiming or sniping).
The capped AIM chance for crossbows will be increased by 5% (from 75% to 80% for eyes, other locations vary).
Crossbows will receive a flat 5% bonus to remaining hidden while sniping.
The chance to be revealed from hiding while COCKing will be removed since it’s already handled during FIRE.


This change firmly plants crossbows as the more offensive weapon at a cost of speed and defense.

Archery Tuning


Ammo management is the only check (albeit a poor one) to the strength of archery. The quality of life improvements means archery needs a slight tweak to bring it more inline with the power of other forms of combat physical combat.
Basic arrows will be changed from 100% puncture to puncture/slash (primarily puncture).
Enchant will be removed from arrows.
Bodkin arrows will be added and will be crush/slash damage (primarily crush).



Improve Fletching

Fletching is primarily used as a customization tool for arrows, is slow


A bundle of 20 or more fletched arrows can be converted to a new style bottomless ammo bundle. Arrows fired from the bottomless bundle will take on the description of the fletched arrows.
Fletched arrows can be added to the bottomless ammo which will give an equivalent number of shots of +5 AvD. This bonus is flat at all ranks. Higher ranks of fletching will increase the speed at which you fletch arrows.
The time to fletch a single arrow will be drastically reduced.
Bodkin arrow heads will be added to the fletching stores as a way to fletch bodkin arrows.



Give a clear path of upgrades for project pieces

Archery is the only system in the game that allows two separate pieces of gear to dictate the total enchant of the weapon. This means most archers stop upgrading their bow at 5x or 6x enchants and bows have limited upgrades available. Arrows are eventually lost and are a poor candidate for upgrades because of this.


Ranged weapons will be the target of project pieces and enchant will be removed from arrows. This gives a reason to push bow enchants up to 10x. Ranged weapons should take all the upgrades that melee weapons do.
Ranged weapons will accept ensorcell, enchant, sighting, flares, blesses, and scripts.
Arrow bundles are meant to be interchangeable with your hunting needs. For example, you can have a fire flaring bow and use an ice flaring bundle of arrows to hunt fire immune creatures. In the same area you could use blessed arrows to kill the undead.



Improving Archery Options


CMAN MFIRE will be moved to a MFIRE verb that functions similarly to MSTRIKE. MoC rank thresholds, targets, and roundtimes are the same as melee. Bows have a 7/6/5 base RT. Crossbow times are still TBD.



New Combat Maneuvers

Truehand will now function with archery and be renamed True Strike.

Skill Name: True Strike
Mnemonic: truestrike
Hostile: Yes
Stamina Cost: Base 10. Additional stamina costs are determined by the Base Weapon Speed of your attack. A stamina penalty of +1 per second of base speed is applied for each second under 5 and +2 for each second over 5. For two weapon combat, an effective Base Weapon Speed is calculated by taking the primary weapon's base speed, adding half the secondary weapon's base speed (rounded up), and adding 1 to the result. The minimum stamina cost is 10.
Other Requirements: Cannot be used from hiding.
Available to: Warriors, Rogues, Rangers, Bards, Monks, Paladins.
Prerequisites:
None
CMP Cost:
Rank 1: (Squares) 2 (Semis) 3
Rank 2: (Squares) 4 (Semis) 6
Rank 3: (Squares) 6 (Semis) 9
Rank 4: (Squares) 8 (Semis) 12
Rank 5: (Squares) 10 (Semis) 15
Description: Increases the chance to hit your target for one attack. At Rank 1, True Strike changes the standard attack d100 roll to 20 + d80 and reduces the target's chances of evading, parrying, and/or blocking your attack by 10%. Each additional rank adds 10 to your combat roll (d80, d70, d60, d50, d40) and reduces your opponent's evasion, parry, and blocking ability by a further 10%.

New Dislodge maneuver.

Skill Name: Dislodge
Mnemonic: dislodge
Hostile: Yes
Stamina Cost: Base 15 (-5 Rank 1, -3 Rank 2)
Other Requirements: An empty hand.
Available to: Warriors, Rogues, Rangers, Bards, Monks, Paladins.
Prerequisites:
None
CMP Cost:
Rank 1: (Squares) 2 (Semis) 3
Rank 2: (Squares) 4 (Semis) 6
Rank 3: (Squares) 6 (Semis) 9
Rank 4: (Squares) 8 (Semis) 12
Rank 5: (Squares) 10 (Semis) 15
Description: Attempt to violently retrieve ranged ammo or a hurled weapon that has been lodged in your target. Successful attempts will place the weapon in hand.

Archery Related Scripted Items

Affected
Compartmentalized Quiver
Mechanical Bow/Crossbow

Not affected
Wand Bow
Mechanical Quiver
Spirit Glove, not affected
Elemental Bow, not affected
Poison Bow, not affected
Duplicating Quiver
Trueshot Quiver
Witchwood Quiver
Racial Sighted Bows

Loving this. May actually play my archer(s) more, especially with the ammo management improvements!

[Fryinhades]

Assuming 411 will still work so there should be no gap lost for you AS wise

411 Grant's no arrow bonus just flares

[mgoddess]

I think this change will definitely hamper mutant archer types. Especially in the sense of the enchant and loss of true strike as well. I find it very difficult seeing these types of people to be able to hunt easily. My mage currently at almost 66 trains shoots a longbow at 393 AS with heroism and bravery running as well as all other spells available to him and col signs. He has both a 6x and 7x bow available to him, so the loss of 15-20 AS might be rough. We will have to see and test. At this point my ranger seems to be almost on par with my mage in self spelled as/ds and hes 35 levels lower. At this point I could take my ranger to hunt red forest vipers and boars with him and he should do absolutely fine.

No ammo management would make it easier for group hunting and sniping from shadows since they wont have to wait for you to gather. Time will tell. Putting a sigil script on my bow or some other type of script could be interesting but time will tell
Assuming 411 will still work so there should be no gap lost for you AS wise
411 Grant's no arrow bonus just flares

I don't see anywhere in the document that 411 won't grant the +20 that it normally does. Where are you getting your info from, Fryinhades?

EDIT: Unless you're assuming the "Enchant to be removed from arrows" as meaning 411 and similar enhancements won't add their enchant bonus?

[m444w]

Overall great changes. The only issue I have is with this mentality:




The quality of life improvements means archery needs a slight tweak to bring it more inline with the power of other forms of combat physical combat.



The bar for balance shouldn't be swinging a falchion, it should be casting a spell and as such should be lifting the other forms of physical combat in relation to this standard. Archery was the closest skill to 3 seconds of soft RT at cap and it still was a long way off.

[Donquix]

I don't see anywhere in the document that 411 won't grant the +20 that it normally does. Where are you getting your info from, Fryinhades?

EDIT: Unless you're assuming the "Enchant to be removed from arrows" as meaning 411 and similar enhancements won't add their enchant bonus?

Enchant from arrows will not be a thing anymore, from any source including temporarily through 411. Only the bow enchant will add to your AS.

If you were only using a 5x bow and getting to 10x via eblading master fletched arrows, you will lose essentially 20 AS (you effectively gain 5 back from the AVD fletched arrows are gaining)

[Donquix]

Also remember it's not THAT hard to eblade vanilla enchanted items, i.e. bows. If you have a plain bow assuming it works the same as melee weapons do currently, you can make a 2x plain flaring bow 6x from someone with a 75+ elemental lore. Pretty sure dreaven's eblade bot can do up to +10 base items or more, for instance.

If you have a 6x bow on the new system with fletched arrows you're only net down 15 AS effectively.

[mgoddess]

Enchant from arrows will not be a thing anymore, from any source including temporarily through 411. Only the bow enchant will add to your AS.

If you were only using a 5x bow and getting to 10x via eblading master fletched arrows, you will lose essentially 20 AS (you effectively gain 5 back from the AVD fletched arrows are gaining)
Alright then. Thanks for clarifying this for me.

[Donquix]

Alright then. Thanks for clarifying this for me.

np. you can still get the flare from elbade btw. And the plan is that ammo flare overrides bow flare. So if you have a baller fire flaring bow, for instance, and go hunt some fire immune thing, you can get some ice flaring arrows (perhaps via 411) and that ammo flare will override your bow flare so you don't have to dump the bow entirely. This is actually super handy, with melee weapons one of the best things about the "rare" flares people tend towards is they work on everything and don't get you killed. Now if you want a lightning bow...you can make a badass lightning bow, and if you go to the bowels or nelemar you just load up some vibe flaring arrows or something and you're good to go.

[Methais]

I wonder what this means for people who dumped silvers/Simucoins into decking out arrows for dupe quivers or whatever, if something is going to be done for them or if they just have to eat it.

I might actually start using ranged here and there now that I’m not forced to deal with ammo management.

[Amerek]

I wonder what this means for people who dumped silvers/Simucoins into decking out arrows for dupe quivers or whatever, if something is going to be done for them or if they just have to eat it.

I might actually start using ranged here and there now that I’m not forced to deal with ammo management.

Although they said the quivers wouldn't be affected, we'll probably just have to eat whatever shit sandwich they give us. I remember when they nerfed e-crossbows in early 2000's without a shred of remorse.

[Risen]

Quivers, ebows, and so on are not targeted for changes with this update. They will definitely be impacted (price, convenience factor). Ultimately just a fancy script for an otherwise plain capability. If arrows get their own customization slot, even that goes. Democracy in action!

[audioserf]

I will make a ranged user for the first time when this change drops. Fuck ammo in its current implementation. Hell yeah.

[Taernath]

I wonder what this means for people who dumped silvers/Simucoins into decking out arrows for dupe quivers or whatever, if something is going to be done for them or if they just have to eat it.

I might actually start using ranged here and there now that I’m not forced to deal with ammo management.

Yeah that auto quiver that went out at DR was the paid version of this, lol.

If they want to beta test new systems and QoL improvements with paid shit I'm cool with that.

[Izzy]

Thrown needs it worse than ranged. Basically thrown is burdensome unless you have a returner.

They (Naijin and Estild) have both indicated that thrown combat is slated for similar improvements after ranged is done. Some highlights I remember from discord were:
Bundling of thrown weapons
mfire/mstrike (similar to ranged)
(vague) Making it more a "distinct" type of combat that isn't simply throwing a normal weapon (i.e. not so much an extension of the held weapon like it is now)

[Astray]

Next BS auction - Bow that fires exploding arrows for $500k or five rolls of TP.

[Archigeek]

They (Naijin and Estild) have both indicated that thrown combat is slated for similar improvements after ranged is done. Some highlights I remember from discord were:
Bundling of thrown weapons
mfire/mstrike (similar to ranged)
(vague) Making it more a "distinct" type of combat that isn't simply throwing a normal weapon (i.e. not so much an extension of the held weapon like it is now)

Actually the crossover with melee weapons is one of the things I like about it. I can swing or throw the same weapon. It also bypasses some parry defense, and is faster than melee. In a nut shell, you don't have to use a CMAN to set up your battles, which means you kill way faster, at about the speed of an un-hasted mage.

[Astray]

Actually the crossover with melee weapons is one of the things I like about it. I can swing or throw the same weapon. It also bypasses some parry defense, and is faster than melee. In a nut shell, you don't have to use a CMAN to set up your battles, which means you kill way faster, at about the speed of an un-hasted mage.

Thrown weapons will probably function in a dumb manner that results in a penalty unless you train both weapon types. It'll be a matter of time until they sell you a 'perfectly balanced' something or other that doesn't have that penalty.

[n0551n3n0m1n3]

I want to see how ripping the stuck projectiles works. If I can stick a troll with an arrow in the eye, then rip out said arrow with the eye...now that's cool

[Archigeek]

Thrown weapons will probably function in a dumb manner that results in a penalty unless you train both weapon types. It'll be a matter of time until they sell you a 'perfectly balanced' something or other that doesn't have that penalty.

That's pretty much how it functions now, minus super cool bypass device.

[Archigeek]

Quivers, ebows, and so on are not targeted for changes with this update. They will definitely be impacted (price, convenience factor). Ultimately just a fancy script for an otherwise plain capability. If arrows get their own customization slot, even that goes. Democracy in action!

Haha. Not targeted... but it's worthless now!

[loxe]

so my t2 6 compartment quiver is now going to be useless? is that what Im understanding?

[Astray]

That's pretty much how it functions now, minus super cool bypass device.

They'll make it even worse.

[Skeletor]

They don’t seem to be afraid of nerfing some expensive gear. Wonder if my returner is safe. :|

[Drew]

Archery was the last role that didn't really require a big cash investment (outside of ebows/quivers), they've changed it now and lowered the effectiveness if you don't spend the money to get yourself a 10x bells and whistles bow.

[Izzy]

so my t2 6 compartment quiver is now going to be useless? is that what Im understanding?


They don’t seem to be afraid of nerfing some expensive gear. Wonder if my returner is safe. :|

This isn't the case. They said (multiple times) they will be reviewing every item potentially affected, and updating them in some fashion to compensate appropriately. Obviously the specifics of this can't be articulated until final designs are implemented, but they are not blindly nerfing expensive gear with no regard.

[Izzy]

Archery was the last role that didn't really require a big cash investment (outside of ebows/quivers), they've changed it now and lowered the effectiveness if you don't spend the money to get yourself a 10x bells and whistles bow.

Why do you *need* a 10x bow, anymore than you *need* a 10x sword? Nice to have - obviously. But there's no necessity for it, balance or viability wise.

[Fortybox]

I wonder what this means for people who dumped silvers/Simucoins into decking out arrows for dupe quivers or whatever, if something is going to be done for them or if they just have to eat it.

I might actually start using ranged here and there now that I’m not forced to deal with ammo management.

Trump is working on a bailout package for them.

[Drew]

Why do you *need* a 10x bow, anymore than you *need* a 10x sword? Nice to have - obviously. But there's no necessity for it, balance or viability wise.

Well archery DS is balanced around that...

[Maerit]

Well archery DS is balanced around that...

I disagree. Archers are just used to not having to use a setup that melee uses. I.e., leg/knockdown targets before taking them out. Or ambush from hiding with push down and having to re-hide after every attack

[Orthin]

If this makes bless and Voln bless not suck so much I cannot wait to give it a try

[Donquix]

I disagree. Archers are just used to not having to use a setup that melee uses. I.e., leg/knockdown targets before taking them out. Or ambush from hiding with push down and having to re-hide after every attack

Yeah you'll be fine. Did they need to nerf it? I dunno if it's worth all the effort because people have feelings. But it's honestly not a big deal, like at all. I've been hunting a baby archer with a 0x bow and 0x arrows off and on since people started getting the vapors about it. Not really a problem.

IF it did for some reason make the hunting with ranged builds too difficult (spoiler, it won't) it makes a lot more sense to change the core system to give that AS back than continue this weird double enchant thing. If they removed the first 40 ranks thing not contributing from ambush/perception, it gives you back exactly 20 AS at cap (which is what you're losing, effectively) for instance. You could make a slight increase to arrow df across the board, etc. Something along those lines.

But it's real, real difficult to take people talking about the sky is falling seriously when at a certain point on discord someone legitimately complained they'd have to disable things in the scatter now before guaranteeing an eye kill. Like yeah, having to use your setup spells on the highest leveled things in the game. That does sound like a really brutal nerf.

[Izzy]

Yeah you'll be fine. Did they need to nerf it? I dunno if it's worth all the effort because people have feelings. But it's honestly not a big deal, like at all. I've been hunting a baby archer with a 0x bow and 0x arrows off and on since people started getting the vapors about it. Not really a problem.

IF it did for some reason make the hunting with ranged builds too difficult (spoiler, it won't) it makes a lot more sense to change the core system to give that AS back than continue this weird double enchant thing. If they removed the first 40 ranks thing not contributing from ambush/perception, it gives you back exactly 20 AS at cap (which is what you're losing, effectively) for instance. You could make a slight increase to arrow df across the board, etc. Something along those lines.

But it's real, real difficult to take people talking about the sky is falling seriously when at a certain point on discord someone legitimately complained they'd have to disable things in the scatter now before guaranteeing an eye kill. Like yeah, having to use your setup spells on the highest leveled things in the game. That does sound like a really brutal nerf.

Even further, as I mentioned before, it's only an interim "nerf" anyway, with recard to AS. Yes, intially most people will see an AS drop, but ultimately the ceiling for archers endroll has increased with the AvD change to fletching allowing for effective 11x, it'll just be much harder (aka expensive) to reach it. Perfectly reasonable IMO.

[Taernath]

Archery was the last role that didn't really require a big cash investment (outside of ebows/quivers), they've changed it now and lowered the effectiveness if you don't spend the money to get yourself a 10x bells and whistles bow.

Yeah, pretty much. At the end of the day I'm going from a 10x equivalent to something like a 7x. That I can now spend money at festivals to regain or slightly surpass what I had before isn't particularly comforting. No, it's not a Big Deal. Yes, I will survive. It just feels unnecessary and the cynical side of me says that it's backdoor monetization. Maybe not even backdoor since making project pieces was a stated goal.

I'm kinda hoping master fletchers get something more than just "you can fletch faster".

[Leafiara]

One other thing that hasn't been covered:



EstildYesterday at 8:14 AM
Sighting? It's useless (at higher levels)!
EstildYesterday at 6:29 PM
Regardless of the current numbers, sighting could use an update to make it more worthwhile at higher levels.


I don't think I want to roll another new character, but maybe my ranger (or less likely my rogue) will make the switch. Ammo management is why I never bothered even trying, so I'm looking forward to messing with the changes on the test server after they're done!

[Tenser]

I have a theory that sighting still helps when hunting creatures above your level where the penalty due to level difference can be made up by the bonus granted by sighting. However, if penalties and bonuses are applied in order instead of all at once, then it depends on the order of they are applied in.

Anyone have an opinion on that?

[Maerit]

I appreciate that crossbows are a viable option, especially for snipers.

[radeek]

What this boils down to is yet another Simu cash grab. Now, in order to fully exploit your AS potential as an archer you'll have to pay for some dumb ass specialized merchant at some highly over-priced pay event to have a CHANCE at getting your ranged weapon upgraded. I think it's bullshit. I wasted mega hours fletching 5x arrows for my alts (my main already has a 10x longbow so it doesn't matter for him) only now to be told my 5x-6x bows for my other archers are basically worthless; I might as well e-blade a 1x-2x enchanted bow and have at it.

I think some of the mutant builds are going to get screwed hard by this "update".

I never gave a damn about gathering my arrows either, I have some macros that take care of all of that.

I knew a nerf was coming for ranged, it was only a matter of time, and yes, make no mistake, by the time they get done fiddling with this shit it will be one hell of a nerf, while adding a fine cash cow for simu at the same time.

If they would give rangers shield maneuvers and some better cmans I'd convert back to a shield user in a fucking heartbeat.

Please Simu, stop fucking with things that aren't broken and justifying it by saying that it "needs fixed".

All I see here is some petty attempt to make archers weaker and hoping that they'll climb on the "pay event bandwagon" to regain the AS you are ripping away from them. You just don't get it do you? Ranged was the ONLY form of physical attack that a normal, everyday player could ever hope of attaining 10x enchant AS without having to have bajillions in silvers to afford a 10x weapon. Thank you for taking that away, I guess that, to Simu, what game balance really means is account balance.

[Izzy]

What this boils down to is yet another Simu cash grab. Now, in order to fully exploit your AS potential as an archer you'll have to pay for some dumb ass specialized merchant at some highly over-priced pay event to have a CHANCE at getting your ranged weapon upgraded. I think it's bullshit. I wasted mega hours fletching 5x arrows for my alts (my main already has a 10x longbow so it doesn't matter for him) only now to be told my 5x-6x bows for my other archers are basically worthless; I might as well e-blade a 1x-2x enchanted bow and have at it.

I think some of the mutant builds are going to get screwed hard by this "update".

I never gave a damn about gathering my arrows either, I have some macros that take care of all of that.

I knew a nerf was coming for ranged, it was only a matter of time, and yes, make no mistake, by the time they get done fiddling with this shit it will be one hell of a nerf, while adding a fine cash cow for simu at the same time.

If they would give rangers shield maneuvers and some better cmans I'd convert back to a shield user in a fucking heartbeat.

Please Simu, stop fucking with things that aren't broken and justifying it by saying that it "needs fixed".

All I see here is some petty attempt to make archers weaker and hoping that they'll climb on the "pay event bandwagon" to regain the AS you are ripping away from them. You just don't get it do you? Ranged was the ONLY form of physical attack that a normal, everyday player could ever hope of attaining 10x enchant AS without having to have bajillions in silvers to afford a 10x weapon. Thank you for taking that away, I guess that, to Simu, what game balance really means is account balance.

The part I don't understand is why so many people believe range should have easy access to 10x weapons. Even moreso, massively decreased requirements for maximum power, i.e. that 5x bow with sick enhancives that would normally be extremely difficult to get to 10x all of a sudden gets to be 10x. No other weapon style gets that benefit. Further, the game isn't balanced around everyone having 10x weapons - it's absolutely NOT necessary at any level of the game. Of course everyone likes to have the biggest numbers possible, but it's not *required*. My ranger hasn't even started training ambush because I'm not starved for AS, and at my current level that equates to ~30 potential AS that I don't yet have, yet somehow am 100% viable.

If we compare before/after proposed changes, the gap isn't very significant at all. Let's say most people can get a 7x, which based on the saturation of the lnet merchant channel with gear at this level is pretty reasonable IMO, then we're only at -15 AS. Throw on the AvD and you're effectively only missing 10AS - less than a pure potion.

It's barely a nerf, and only a temporary one at that considering that the new ceiling for effective AS is 11x with the fletching AvD bonus previously mentioned. Not to mention these changes paving the way for so many new possibilities for bows as project weapons (access to scripts not previously available like GEF, banes, etc).

So to that end, I would say that the current state of ranged IS broken, and everyone has been enjoying it because it is in their favor. And I say this as someone whose main has been an archer from day 1. Everyone needs to chill on the dramatics. Not everything is a "cash grab."

[Fryinhades]

I agree this is not a cash grab. This game is not one of which you need to use cash to get anything. Everything can be bought by silver and silver can he made in game without utilizing cash. Does this change things up for archers? Of course. For squares and semis they should be fine. For pures it might make a little bit of a difference but not much. As it is in my mid 60s as a pure archer I have to rely on using heroism and bravery for most hunts because otherwise I stay in offensive for too long. I have to prone just about anything my level or a few above to ensure that I can do the necessary damage in time. With this change, I just need to be more patient on my kills rather than spam attacks it seems.

That being said, I feel there are some things we arent seeing as part of the "nerf" that might actually be a boon if you're willing to train in it. True strike might help balance the loss of not having a 10x weapon. The capability of having cool scripts is another. Obviously some of these scripts need to be tweaked to work with ranged better (ie parasitic being one that the flares did nothing for you). But I am sure with this new team they will make the necessary adjustments to make it work.

[Maerit]

Frankly, the current archery system is much more of a cash grab than this one. This new system, along with the proposed thrown weapon changes (which are basically the same as arrow bundles) removes the opportunity for SIMU to sell the ammo management bows in auctions / raffles and completely tosses the new quivers that were cash grabs as well. It also trashes bandoliers and makes returners a lot less valuable. That sucks for the 1% that owns them, but for the 99% who do not, and would like to enjoy these combat systems, it's a wonderful improvement. It also means less high-end items for SIMU to exploit in auctions / HESS and other high-end "cash" venues.

The biggest "nerf" component to be wary of is the change to the arrow damage from being 100% puncture, to being mostly puncture with a side of slash damage. This change is the one that will inevitably reduce 1-shots across the board resulting in a lot of complaints because you will semi-often slash eyes instead of pierce them. There's absolutely nothing cash grabby about this "nerf" either.

[Fryinhades]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what people ate calling a cash grab. By cash grab do they mean more of a cash sink orpullinf silver out of circulation more than actual cash itself?

Again the quivers and auctions can all be done via silver purchases either purchasing books or bloodscrip from players

[Maerit]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what people ate calling a cash grab. By cash grab do they mean more of a cash sink orpullinf silver out of circulation more than actual cash itself?

Again the quivers and auctions can all be done via silver purchases either purchasing books or bloodscrip from players

They expect you to have to spend thousands on simucoins to get your 10x AS bonus back since you will lose that easy 10x AS bonus from 5x bow + 5x arrows that every ranged player is able to currently use. Thus, making the illogical leap that everyone is expected to operate at the maximum enchant for ranged to "work"...

[Delarock]

I don't think that's an unreasonable leap. Achieving 10x in archery is significantly easier than 10x on any other type of weapon. The game is balanced around the average archer having near 10x total bonus. If you take the ability to maintain the 10x or near 10x bonus away without balancing creature DS, then it stands to reason that players will be expected to maintain that 10x by way of enchants which require potions that were just recently sold at a pay event.

[Taernath]

They expect you to have to spend thousands on simucoins to get your 10x AS bonus back since you will lose that easy 10x AS bonus from 5x bow + 5x arrows that every ranged player is able to currently use. Thus, making the illogical leap that everyone is expected to operate at the maximum enchant for ranged to "work"...

Strictly speaking nobody NEEDS a 10x weapon. You can kill most of the stuff in game with a 1x whip, but I think just about anyone would be upset if they were told their uberweapon is going to lose 15 AS/CS but don't worry, you're still viable oh and you can make up the difference at a paid event.

[Gelston]

You can kill most of the stuff in game with a 1x whip

I think most things would kill you first.

[Taernath]

I think most things would kill you first.

If we can whip it, we can kill it.

[Astray]

I get the feeling that some shit would just out-regenerate your damage with a 1x whip.

[Maerit]

I don't think that's an unreasonable leap. Achieving 10x in archery is significantly easier than 10x on any other type of weapon. The game is balanced around the average archer having near 10x total bonus. If you take the ability to maintain the 10x or near 10x bonus away without balancing creature DS, then it stands to reason that players will be expected to maintain that 10x by way of enchants which require potions that were just recently sold at a pay event.

It's not balanced around this at all. Archery has been touted as "overpowered" for years because you can stand in the open, use absolutely no setup, aim right eye, get 1 arrow my container, fire bow, and the thing dies. Of course that only works on targets which can be crit killed, so clearly the combat system has limitations. However, you compare archery to any other physical AS vs DS combat system and it is the most efficient. Even ambushing dagger rogues who can reliably crit kill their targets on ambush with a single attack still have to hide first.

The problem is that we've had 2 decades to get used to the current system and consider that 1-shotting everything without any setup is "balanced". It's not. And losing 10-15 AS won't really change your combat experience dramatically anyway.

Enchant your bow to 7x instead of 5x. Get fletched arrows for +5 AvD. You now have effectively 8x weaponry and boosted your DS at the same time. This is how most physical combat systems are designed, and normally the non-archer types have to disable / leg their opponent before they bust out an mstrike or ambush their head.

Not to mention, just like other weapon types, ranged will have an mstrike option. That's not only handy for swarms, but allows you to have multiple focused shots on a target which requires attrition to kill. That's going to go a long ways to helping archers vs champions and non-corp undead.

My major concern is that we get the vocal minority with $2000+ valued bows in the current market complaining about the change to the point where it gets shelved, and every player with a normal weapon continues to complain about how they can't stand ammo management and bows suck in the arena, etc etc.. I would gladly sacrifice +10AS to never have to gather ammunition or manage blessed/ebladed arrows ever again and gain mstrike capability with ranged attacks (and thrown). My sorcerer is a master fletcher and I could care less that all the time spent mastering is going to net me "slightly faster" ammo creation.

[Fryinhades]

Again not a cash grab unless you make it a cash grab. You can buy those potions using silvers or trading gear or paying the enchanter that bought them. No cash exchanged.

And I dont want you to think I dont have skin in the game. With two archers. this affects me as well, especially with one being a mage. In any event we were the only class with an easily accessible 10x weapon. That 10x weapon didnt have the capability of having special flares, scripts or anything put on it. Now we have that luxury, Instead of the 10x weapon.

With this change we might have other possible scripts that could be added to our benefit. The squares and semis will also get true strike which will add to your end roll as well. Again I think this is being blown out of proportion and the cash grab is not a viable argument. If the only way to get a 10x bow was to buy the enchant potions via simucions only or premium points then I would be singing your tune.

[Taernath]

I would gladly sacrifice +10AS to never have to gather ammunition or manage blessed/ebladed arrows ever again and gain mstrike capability with ranged attacks (and thrown). My sorcerer is a master fletcher and I could care less that all the time spent mastering is going to net me "slightly faster" ammo creation.

This is a false dichotomy; it doesn't have to be either/or. Keep the ammo management changes, let these new bottomless quivers carry the enchant/properties that ammunition currently does, and let fletchers craft 1x-4x quivers with the +5 AvD for master fletchers. Bingo bango ammo management, no lost AS, master fletchers have a reason to exist, everyone's happy.

[Taernath]

Again not a cash grab unless you make it a cash grab. You can buy those potions using silvers or trading gear or paying the enchanter that bought them. No cash exchanged.

There is a very small amount of free range, ethically-sourced BS in the economy, the vast majority is from people that grind it with real money. Even if you pay with silvers, someone at some point gave Simu money. They always get their share.

[Gelston]

This is a false dichotomy; it doesn't have to be either/or. Keep the ammo management changes, let these new bottomless quivers carry the enchant/properties that ammunition currently does, and let fletchers craft 1x-4x quivers with the +5 AvD for master fletchers. Bingo bango ammo management, no lost AS, master fletchers have a reason to exist, everyone's happy.

The new method also fixes the demon/archery issue. The old system was retarded. The new one is better.

[Taernath]

The new method also fixes the demon/archery issue. The old system was retarded. The new one is better.

I'd argue that demon weapon restrictions are themselves retarded.

[Gelston]

I'd argue that demon weapon restrictions are themselves retarded.

You're retarded.

[Gelston]

But no, I like it. It puts it more into line with other weapons. I always thought there was way too much emphasis on the ammo, rather than the weapon.

[Fryinhades]

There is a very small amount of free range, ethically-sourced BS in the economy, the vast majority is from people that grind it with real money. Even if you pay with silvers, someone at some point gave Simu money. They always get their share.


Although true, that's their prerogative. If they wanted to spend cash to buy something for their own benefit fine, but theyvarent doing it specifically for archery. Gear. The cash grab argument is saying that simu did this for the cash grab, which is not the case. People buying simucions for xyz reason is different than people. Being forced to pay simucoins to be better with archery under the new system would b the cash grab argument. The two are mutually exclusive from one another.

If people want to pay actual money for nice items is the MO. No one is. Being forced to do that in this system

[Fryinhades]

But no, I like it. It puts it more into line with other weapons. I always thought there was way too much emphasis on the ammo, rather than the weapon.

To an extent. Ever tried to fire a weapon with shitty ammo. Archery or otherwise? Big difference in outcome. My 15 wooden plastic fletched are no where near a accurate as my carbon fiber shafted fully weight adjustable arrows.

You're only as good as the weakest piece as my baseball coach used to tell us

[Voldemort]

They’ll make special unlose-able arrows for 1245989543332222347886688 Bloodscrip.

[radeek]

ok, riddle me this....I have never been able to hit demons right off the bat, even with my 10x bow due to the arrows not being enchanted to 10x. Is this going to change? Since I already have a 10x bow will I now be able to hit fresh-gen demons?

[Taernath]

Did you have a bless?

[Gelston]

Did you have a bless?

Arrows had to be 8x and blessed. With the new update he'll beable to hit them with an 8x bow and blessed arrows.

[Taernath]

He should be able to hit them with his bow and master fletched 4x arrows (so, 5x) + blessing.

[Fortybox]

So will bow RT still be the same with the STR stat? I see the change regarding aiming and hiding but basically will halflings still be screwed?

[Maerit]

So will bow RT still be the same with the STR stat? I see the change regarding aiming and hiding but basically will halflings still be screwed?

bow RT will be the same, but crossbows are going to a flat RT with no stat requirements. So young characters and weak races can pick the crossbow for flat 4s/5s RTs, higher aiming, higher AS when kneeling, and no removal from stealth with just a FIRE command (no having to load or cock the weapon). They can also pre-load the weapon and have a quick shot ready for the next encounter if desired. You can use crossbows both ways with the new system, but the cock + fire mechanics will be flat RT, or just fire without any other preemptive actions.

[Fortybox]

bow RT will be the same, but crossbows are going to a flat RT with no stat requirements. So young characters and weak races can pick the crossbow for flat 4s/5s RTs, higher aiming, higher AS when kneeling, and no removal from stealth with just a FIRE command (no having to load or cock the weapon). They can also pre-load the weapon and have a quick shot ready for the next encounter if desired. You can use crossbows both ways with the new system, but the cock + fire mechanics will be flat RT, or just fire without any other preemptive actions.

Do crossbows not hit as hard then? What's to stop people from switching to crossbows now?

[Fryinhades]

Problems with crossbows in the past was the setup and the extra steps to be able to fire. Being pushed into offensive stance when cocking and thebrt was variable and not fixed. I as a hasted mage used my crossbow a lot when I was in my 30s and 40s but found the 1 second bow to be much easier at the end. I will be going back to my crossbow now after these changes to see how it is aiming is better and the plus 30as when kneeling is nice. It's a ds tradeoff and a 5 second hard rt after you fire in offensive and kneeling. Unless you can go in offensive or neutral and still have a similar as with higher DS then it can still be difficult. Nothing is worse than having a 5 second hard RT on in troll kings when I new one walks in. The whole stance def/stand spam is real

[Donquix]

Do crossbows not hit as hard then? What's to stop people from switching to crossbows now?

Heavy crossbows are comparable to longbows damage / avd wise. Normal bows will still be faster with enough STR but the changes would definitely position crossbows as a good leveling with growth stats / weak race option (which honestly they already were with the advent of mech xbows)

[Fortybox]

Heavy crossbows are comparable to longbows damage / avd wise. Normal bows will still be faster with enough STR but the changes would definitely position crossbows as a good leveling with growth stats / weak race option (which honestly they already were with the advent of mech xbows)

Faster by only 1 sec right? Feels like that isn't much incentive for doing a longbow.

[Maerit]

Do crossbows not hit as hard then? What's to stop people from switching to crossbows now?

There are a couple downsides to crossbows.

1. They are still slower than bows by 1s. Longbow can be fired without aiming in 3s with sufficient strength and 4s while aiming, for the same DF and AvD as a heavy crossbow. So, aimed shot will be 1s faster than a heavy crossbow (which I believe caps at 5s RT even when aiming).

2. You have lower DS with a crossbow when compared with a bow. There is a significant parry DS reduction, so anyone shooting from the open would benefit from using a bow over a crossbow.

I would say #3 is the lack of good heavy crossbows in the realm, but that's not a super big issue to overcome.

A wizard could push the RT for a crossbow down to 1s with 506, but a Bard would still shoot faster with a bow considering Tonis can only do -3s RT with 75 ranks of air lore for a min RT of 2s with a heavy crossbow (1s with a light, but lower DF/AvD). Anyone planning to snipe will probably be better off with a crossbow due to the aiming advantages and the AS bonus while kneeling. Especially rogues with combat mobility since they will be pushed to standing if knocked out of hiding while in RT.

[Fryinhades]

It's a wash in a way. Higher AS and higher aiming capability allows for more feather crits than a longbow. That might be a factor with the new puncture/slash arrow damage. The higher AS and higher aiming could possibly push you over the next threshold. I mean even now crossbows do hit the eyes more often as it is but you have to deal with the fire, cock functionality which even for mages forces you to a 2 second fire and cock time. If you want to see both in action as it is, look me up and I can show you how both dynamics work. illness#8054

[Donquix]

There are a couple downsides to crossbows.

1. They are still slower than bows by 1s. Longbow can be fired without aiming in 3s with sufficient strength and 4s while aiming, for the same DF and AvD as a heavy crossbow. So, aimed shot will be 1s faster than a heavy crossbow (which I believe caps at 5s RT even when aiming).

2. You have lower DS with a crossbow when compared with a bow. There is a significant parry DS reduction, so anyone shooting from the open would benefit from using a bow over a crossbow.

I would say #3 is the lack of good heavy crossbows in the realm, but that's not a super big issue to overcome.

A wizard could push the RT for a crossbow down to 1s with 506, but a Bard would still shoot faster with a bow considering Tonis can only do -3s RT with 75 ranks of air lore for a min RT of 2s with a heavy crossbow (1s with a light, but lower DF/AvD). Anyone planning to snipe will probably be better off with a crossbow due to the aiming advantages and the AS bonus while kneeling. Especially rogues with combat mobility since they will be pushed to standing if knocked out of hiding while in RT.

Naijin said there will still be the cock + fire option pretty sure for crossbows, which is another point in their favor overall really (the first shot can be "faster" as in less rt with a target in the room if it's just the fire time and you can cock in safety) but also still maintains the option for tonis bards to double dip for tonis.

[Izzy]

There are a couple downsides to crossbows.

1. They are still slower than bows by 1s. Longbow can be fired without aiming in 3s with sufficient strength and 4s while aiming, for the same DF and AvD as a heavy crossbow. So, aimed shot will be 1s faster than a heavy crossbow (which I believe caps at 5s RT even when aiming).

2. You have lower DS with a crossbow when compared with a bow. There is a significant parry DS reduction, so anyone shooting from the open would benefit from using a bow over a crossbow.

I would say #3 is the lack of good heavy crossbows in the realm, but that's not a super big issue to overcome.

A wizard could push the RT for a crossbow down to 1s with 506, but a Bard would still shoot faster with a bow considering Tonis can only do -3s RT with 75 ranks of air lore for a min RT of 2s with a heavy crossbow (1s with a light, but lower DF/AvD). Anyone planning to snipe will probably be better off with a crossbow due to the aiming advantages and the AS bonus while kneeling. Especially rogues with combat mobility since they will be pushed to standing if knocked out of hiding while in RT.

You can work off the aiming RT from bows with more strength too. My ranger's got 50 STR (25 racial/509/606) and aims in 3 seconds.

[gilchristr]

"kill the undead"

Destroy? :)

How can you kill that which does not live.

[Taernath]

Looks like changes are live

The FLETCH verb allows you add charges to your bundles and customize the bundle appearance. New services become available as you gain more ranks in fletching. FLETCH only works on ammo bundles which can be fletched, bundled from ammo, or bought from your local fletching supply.

Usage: FLETCH (service) while holding a bundle in your right hand

Available services:
SHAFT 50 ranks. Shafts can make magical ammo and change flares.
FLIP 100 ranks. Flipping changes the look of ammo based on the materials.
FLETCHING 200 ranks. Fletchings can make flaring ammo.
PAINT 250 ranks. Cosmetic only, changes the shaft banding color.
BAND 300 ranks. Cosmetic only, changes the band color. Can paint up to two bands.
TIP 400 ranks. Tips can change flares and damage type of your ammo.
MASTER 500 ranks. Adds +5 AvD to your bundle for a limited number of shots.

fletch master
You rummage through a bundle of faewood arrows and discard any too damaged to be repaired. You meticulously pare away defects in the shafts, repair missing and torn fletching, and replace damaged tips. As you finish the job, you are satisfied the faewood arrows are in perfect condition.
Roundtime: 10 sec.

[BriarFox]

If anyone is interested, the Art of the Bow guide is updated for the ranged changes. It probably still needs some work, of course. Let me know if you see anything missing. https://gswiki.play.net/Art_of_the_Bow_(guide)

[Archigeek]

Is this why everything is so F-ing slow tonight?

[BriarFox]

Is this why everything is so F-ing slow tonight?

Nah, it was rolled out this morning and everything was fine. Almost 800 people in, though.

[Fortybox]

Is this why everything is so F-ing slow tonight?

It's b/c of HoA's nightly REIM orgy.

[Fortybox]

Nah, it was rolled out this morning and everything was fine. Almost 800 people in, though.

Nice deflection

[Avaia]

Is this why everything is so F-ing slow tonight?

Everything is lagged up because of HoA. It is happening almost every night around this time these days, and is fucking ridiculous. As soon as they are done watch the lag clear right up.

[Avaia]

Well lookee what we have here. The game should run fine now, until tomorrow night that is.

[Gardenia Commons]
The soft, soothing sound of the carved marble fountain that dominates Gardenia Commons breaks the omnipresent silence of night. Bright moonlight dapples the area in a silvery glow and reflects off the water pouring into the fountain, causing ripples of ethereal light to dance across the mist that clings to the cobblestone street. A light, thin layer of dew glistens on the wrought iron benches that encircle the fountain. You also see the palm frond-shaped Kinjaro disk, the Arshwikk disk, the fiery red Aleyi disk, a black-footed plump red fox, the ghoul-shaped Ragz disk, the Daphren disk, a slimy brown frog, a large bat that is flying around, a green-eyed pale grey kitten, a silvery ethereal puppy with wispy fog-like fur, the fiery red Sabotage disk, an annoyed glacier spirit that is flying around, the Marhand disk, the Kalcawkk disk, a blue-eyed midnight black wolf that is sitting, a bubbling sapphire water wyrdling, the cauldron-shaped Treeva disk, a tiny angular lilac-point kitten, a rose-marrow potion, a rose-marrow potion and a wide-mouthed wicker basket.
Also here: Rozy, Kinjaro, Arshwikk, Lady Aleyi, Daedeus, Kariett, Ragz, Stupes, Claudaro, Mellny, Arena Hero Neovik, Daphren, Desorceri, Zirthiluntha, Dayzed, Barakeel, Sabotage, Bloonk, Lightweaver Gespry, Milinra, Timov, Soulard, Marhand, Dyreknor, Lord Niful, Nodyre, Chopad, Kalcawkk, Tigerwolf, Hammibal, Alastir, Mister Clown, Grand Lord Whirlin, Wolfstarr, Kaeynne, Arena Hero Melivn, High Lady Treeva, Jiarine, Brimzstone

[Fortybox]

Well lookee what we have here. The game should run fine now, until tomorrow night that is.

[Gardenia Commons]
The soft, soothing sound of the carved marble fountain that dominates Gardenia Commons breaks the omnipresent silence of night. Bright moonlight dapples the area in a silvery glow and reflects off the water pouring into the fountain, causing ripples of ethereal light to dance across the mist that clings to the cobblestone street. A light, thin layer of dew glistens on the wrought iron benches that encircle the fountain. You also see the palm frond-shaped Kinjaro disk, the Arshwikk disk, the fiery red Aleyi disk, a black-footed plump red fox, the ghoul-shaped Ragz disk, the Daphren disk, a slimy brown frog, a large bat that is flying around, a green-eyed pale grey kitten, a silvery ethereal puppy with wispy fog-like fur, the fiery red Sabotage disk, an annoyed glacier spirit that is flying around, the Marhand disk, the Kalcawkk disk, a blue-eyed midnight black wolf that is sitting, a bubbling sapphire water wyrdling, the cauldron-shaped Treeva disk, a tiny angular lilac-point kitten, a rose-marrow potion, a rose-marrow potion and a wide-mouthed wicker basket.
Also here: Rozy, Kinjaro, Arshwikk, Lady Aleyi, Daedeus, Kariett, Ragz, Stupes, Claudaro, Mellny, Arena Hero Neovik, Daphren, Desorceri, Zirthiluntha, Dayzed, Barakeel, Sabotage, Bloonk, Lightweaver Gespry, Milinra, Timov, Soulard, Marhand, Dyreknor, Lord Niful, Nodyre, Chopad, Kalcawkk, Tigerwolf, Hammibal, Alastir, Mister Clown, Grand Lord Whirlin, Wolfstarr, Kaeynne, Arena Hero Melivn, High Lady Treeva, Jiarine, Brimzstone

Meanwhile, Wyrom looks the other way why this organization keeps cheating

https://media.giphy.com/media/3ofT5XHgLyucHZOrMk/giphy.gif

[Donquix]

I haven't lagged any other night with 900+ on and hoa running. Something was fucked up tonight with the hamster.

[gilchristr]

"Something was fucked up tonight with the hamster."

It was posted on the officials, apparently his balls got bola'd in the rungs of the wheel.

[audioserf]

Everything is lagged up because of HoA. It is happening almost every night around this time these days, and is fucking ridiculous. As soon as they are done watch the lag clear right up.

HOA suck and the lag is absolutely their fault but I think a ton of it is due to the way 709 is designed. Their sorcs all spam 709 in their script, and each 709 initial cast adds to the game 1 arm per sorc casting per creature in the wave of attackers AND sends that messaging once to each person in the room, and all the arms count as creatures AND all have hyperlinks (for SF users with links enabled). That shit is a huge amount for the game to process. I don't know how they could alter 709 and still have it be an awesome spell, but it seems more likely than HOA ever altering their behavior.

[BriarFox]

5 focused mstrikes with a bow, with 90 ranks (+45 phantom ranks):



>mstr fire cham
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With great haste, you let loose a volley of shots against an Ithzir champion!
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +513 vs DS: +369 with AvD: +43 + d100 roll: +19 = +206
... and hit for 24 points of damage!
Strike pierces upper arm!

** Your faewood arrow emits a searing bolt of lightning! **

... 20 points of damage!
Heavy shock gives the Ithzir champion fits!
It is knocked to the ground!
The arrow breaks into tiny fragments.
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +513 vs DS: +319 with AvD: +43 + d100 roll: +51 = +288
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Loud *crack* as the Ithzir champion's sternum breaks!
The arrow sticks in an Ithzir champion's chest!
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +513 vs DS: +306 with AvD: +43 + d100 roll: +29 = +279
... and hit for 51 points of damage!
Strike to abdomen punctures stomach!

** Necrotic energy from your sephwir long bow overflows into you! **

You feel energized!
The arrow sticks in an Ithzir champion's abdomen!
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +538 vs DS: +306 with AvD: +43 + d100 roll: +20 = +295
... and hit for 44 points of damage!
Downward slash across the Ithzir champion's left thigh!
Gouges bone!
You feel the unnatural surge of necrotic power wane away.

** Your faewood arrow emits a searing bolt of lightning! **

... 20 points of damage!
Nasty jolt to abdomen makes an Ithzir champion's stomach turn. Urp.
The arrow sticks in an Ithzir champion's left leg!
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +513 vs DS: +256 with AvD: +43 + d100 roll: +12 = +312
... and hit for 57 points of damage!
Nailed in lower back!

** Necrotic energy from your sephwir long bow overflows into you! **

You feel energized!
The arrow sticks in an Ithzir champion's back!

Your series of rapid shots and maneuvers leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 10 sec.

[gilchristr]

Nice shot(s).

How do you think the roundtime worked? Is it based on normal mstrike calculations (with reduction by AGI/Dex), or does it have reduction from each +10 strength bonus?

[Skeletor]

That’s amazing. RT is just right I think for 5 focused mstrikes.

Are bows now the only weapon you need? I think so!

[BriarFox]

Nice shot(s).

How do you think the roundtime worked? Is it based on normal mstrike calculations (with reduction by AGI/Dex), or does it have reduction from each +10 strength bonus?

So far I've only seen 10 seconds for it. Let me play around with STR bonuses ...

[BriarFox]

Figured it out. STR bonus has no effect. As with MOC normally, it's modified by AGIDEX. Presumably has the same break points as regular MOC, based on weapon base speed.


>mstr fire cons
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With great haste, you let loose a volley of shots against a greater construct!
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at a greater construct!
AS: +546 vs DS: +367 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +30 = +234
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Downward slash across the greater construct's right thigh!
Might not scar.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The arrow sticks in a greater construct's right leg!
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at a greater construct!
The greater construct moves at the last moment to evade the missile!
The arrow streaks off into the distance!
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at a greater construct!
AS: +546 vs DS: +352 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +65 = +284
... and hit for 40 points of damage!
Nice shot to the head gouges the greater construct's cheek!
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.

** Necrotic energy from your sephwir long bow overflows into you! **

You feel healed!

** Your faewood arrow emits a searing bolt of lightning! **

... 30 points of damage!
Stunning arc of electricity fuses right arm at elbow.
The arrow breaks into tiny fragments.
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at a greater construct!
AS: +546 vs DS: +295 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +75 = +346
... and hit for 58 points of damage!
Strike pierces gall bladder!
That's gotta hurt!
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The arrow sticks in a greater construct's abdomen!
You nock a faewood arrow fletched with blue griffin feathers in your sephwir long bow.
You fire a faewood arrow at a greater construct!
AS: +546 vs DS: +283 with AvD: +20 + d100 roll: +96 = +379
... and hit for 74 points of damage!
Weak diagonal slash catches the greater construct's left knee!
It is dislocated.
The greater construct is knocked to the ground!
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct fades and goes out.
The arrow sticks in a greater construct's left leg!

Your series of rapid shots and maneuvers leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 8 sec.

[Fortybox]

HOA suck and the lag is absolutely their fault but I think a ton of it is due to the way 709 is designed. Their sorcs all spam 709 in their script, and each 709 initial cast adds to the game 1 arm per sorc casting per creature in the wave of attackers AND sends that messaging once to each person in the room, and all the arms count as creatures AND all have hyperlinks (for SF users with links enabled). That shit is a huge amount for the game to process. I don't know how they could alter 709 and still have it be an awesome spell, but it seems more likely than HOA ever altering their behavior.

Doesn't surprise me. You have Niful in the list that Avaia posted. He is a known AFK scripter that 709's Nelemar all the time.

[BriarFox]

Figured it out. STR bonus has no effect. As with MOC normally, it's modified by AGIDEX. Presumably has the same break points as regular MOC, based on weapon base speed.

Also, let’s just talk for a second about how awesome five shots in 8 seconds is.

[Fortybox]

Also, let’s just talk for a second about how awesome five shots in 8 seconds is.

Keep deflecting.

[Donquix]

"Something was fucked up tonight with the hamster."

It was posted on the officials, apparently his balls got bola'd in the rungs of the wheel.

I know that feel little bro. I know that feel.


Figured it out. STR bonus has no effect. As with MOC normally, it's modified by AGIDEX. Presumably has the same break points as regular MOC, based on weapon base speed.

It's for sure the exact same mstrike formula including agidex, max rt, training breakpoints, etc. If that isn't in the doc it was said in discord.

[Methais]

edit- nothing to see here.

Protip: Theres a DELETE button on the edit post screen.

[Methais]

If that isn't in the doc it was said in discord.

Simu really needs to quit using Discord as the primary and often the only source for new info.

“This was mentioned in Discord on the 23rd at 3:38am, so you should have known already. Gawd don't you guys pay attention to anything?!?!?!”

“But Simu, if I walk away from Discord for 10 minutes there’s like 600+ new messages to catch up on.”

“Look I don’t have time to keep answering the same questions that are already answered in Discord ok????”

[Donquix]

Simu really needs to quit using Discord as the primary and often the only source for new info.

“This was mentioned in Discord on the 23rd at 3:38am, so you should have known already. Gawd don't you guys pay attention to anything?!?!?!”

“But Simu, if I walk away from Discord for 10 minutes there’s like 600+ new messages to catch up on.”

“Look I don’t have time to keep answering the same questions that are already answered in Discord ok????”

Infinitely better than the officials, i can search discord and the information doesn't just disappear with broken links randomly.

Having wiki updates staged and ready to deploy with the update should absolutely be a thing. They have a GM that is like, in charge of the wiki or something i have no idea why part of that role isn't doing exactly that.

[Taernath]

Anyone figured out how to swap tips? Apparently you need a bunch of them but I don't want to sit here buying a hundred of them individually.

[BriarFox]

Anyone figured out how to swap tips? Apparently you need a bunch of them but I don't want to sit here buying a hundred of them individually.

Buy 10, bundle them, hold the tips in your left hand and the arrows in your right, and FLETCH TIP

[Taernath]

Buy 10, bundle them, hold the tips in your left hand and the arrows in your right, and FLETCH TIP

Thanks, I'm not sure why they made points be individual but the paint and fletchings not be.

Also the bodkin points seem to be doing every type of damage instead of crush/slash. They SHOULD be puncture only, but what do I know.

[Donquix]

Thanks, I'm not sure why they made points be individual but the paint and fletchings not be.

Also the bodkin points seem to be doing every type of damage instead of crush/slash. They SHOULD be puncture only, but what do I know.

bodkin have the same damage type spread as normal arrows, mostly puncture some slash. Just a slight bonus against heavier armor (and worse on lighter)

[Taernath]

bodkin have the same damage type spread as normal arrows, mostly puncture some slash. Just a slight bonus against heavier armor (and worse on lighter)

Bonus in terms of AvD or DF?

[Taernath]

Did some casual testing with tips.

blunt tips: unbalance crit table, +10 AvD

crescent tips: almost all slash

broadhead: puncture/slash

bodkin: puncture/slash

[BriarFox]

Did some casual testing with tips.

blunt tips: unbalance crit table, +10 AvD

crescent tips: almost all slash

broadhead: puncture/slash

bodkin: puncture/slash

Nice. Did you notice any AvD changes with the other types? I’m assuming DF is going to stay constant.

[Taernath]

No, AvD for all other types (including the untipped ones) is still just 'arrow'.

[Donquix]

there are definitely supposed to be avd changes against certain armors.

We have a document with the exact values for all of this. It's a separate spreadsheet linked in the archery doc. I don't think anything ever changed between that doc and live.

Bodkins have a +5 AvD bonus over broadheads on chain/plate, and a .025/.015 DF bonus against chain/plate (identical avd, but df penalty on lower armors)


>ins my arrow
You carefully inspect your wooden arrow.
After a careful inspection you determine that a wooden arrow requires skill in ranged weapons to use effectively. <---- plain arrow (broadhead)
It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of wood.

You fire a wooden arrow at Sexydude!
AS: +60 vs DS: +725 with AvD: +23 + d100 roll: +58 = -584 <--- aug chain
A clean miss.
The arrow streaks off into the distance!
Roundtime: 3 sec.


>ins my arrow
You carefully inspect your wooden arrow.
After a careful inspection you determine that a wooden arrow tipped with a bodkin point requires skill in ranged weapons to use effectively. <---- bodkin
It looks like this item has been mainly crafted out of wood.

You fire a wooden arrow at Sexydude!
AS: +60 vs DS: +725 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +2 = -635 <---- 5 more avd
A clean miss.
The arrow streaks off into the distance!
Roundtime: 3 sec.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vXaTvjynMs0yMzKWQBzWD3PExKSzvUo2De-XyPkbBGc/edit#gid=0

[BriarFox]

Thanks, Donquix.

[Methais]

Infinitely better than the officials, i can search discord and the information doesn't just disappear with broken links randomly.

Having wiki updates staged and ready to deploy with the update should absolutely be a thing. They have a GM that is like, in charge of the wiki or something i have no idea why part of that role isn't doing exactly that.

That’s assuming you know there’s even something to search for.

I don’t have a problem with how Discord is used, but expecting people to stay on top of the majority of news that way is dumb.

And probably intentional.

[Fortybox]

That’s assuming you know there’s even something to search for.

I don’t have a problem with how Discord is used, but expecting people to stay on top of the majority of news that way is dumb.

And probably intentional.

Wyrom pretty much closed off any way to do feedback. He got rid of the feedback folder on play.net. Players cannot express how they really feel on Discord or else they will get banned.

[Donquix]

That’s assuming you know there’s even something to search for.

I don’t have a problem with how Discord is used, but expecting people to stay on top of the majority of news that way is dumb.

And probably intentional.

Eh, just kinda happened and it's just easier to browse discord on your phone. I think that's honestly no small part of why we get a lot of info out of them. They're jackin it on the couch and whip out their phone for when they're done and troll discord. Boom, got the dex weighting formula.

But i agree, announcements are all over and what TownCrier started doing with the changelog should, unequivocally, be a simu thing maintained on the wiki/discord/not-shittily-on-the-website


Wyrom pretty much closed off any way to do feedback. He got rid of the feedback folder on play.net. Players cannot express how they really feel on Discord or else they will get banned.

I have not seen that to be the case. At all. People were bitching up a storm 24/7 about archery shit. Naos got screamed at so much from enchant he's all but disappeared from the mechanics channel, but they didn't really take anything down. If you don't fly off the handle calling them all shit for brains or something they've actually been pretty good about it. Officials felt like you had to walk on eggshells or whoever was the fucknut mc moderator of the day would be like "it's my time to shine!" and hide half the posts in a thread.

[gilchristr]

A "changelog" would be the absolute bare minimum of documenting the new system, and they cannot even do that.

[Taernath]

Discord is just a searchable chatroom. You have to know who posted what and when, otherwise you're digging through a constant background susurrus of awkward jokes and sycophantry. For disseminating info, it's arguably one of the shittier methods.

[gilchristr]

Rocky's jogging suit looks a little weird in your avatar.

[Donut]

Does mstrike fire work with berserk?

[Voldemort]

Does mstrike fire work with berserk?

If it did that would be the most fucking moronic thing ever...............

https://media.tenor.com/images/4293d05fd274ed754a8bb6d15e62a6b2/tenor.gif

[Methais]

But i agree, announcements are all over and what TownCrier started doing with the changelog should, unequivocally, be a simu thing maintained on the wiki/discord/not-shittily-on-the-website

This. I can't imagine what it'd be like coming back after being gone for years and being like, "What's new?" and the answer being, "Oh, just skim through these 462,000 Discord messages it's all in there."

[Taernath]

Rocky's jogging suit looks a little weird in your avatar.

It's the porn version.

[Voldemort]

It’s because the officials are monitored by Stillfront you fucking morons.

[Maerit]

The fact that this game hasn't adhered to the whole versioning, release drops, change lists w/ details concept that any software developer in the world does is a testament to the jacked up dev environment. Though, it is nice that they can deploy these changes without major downtime to the players.

[POWPOW]

The fact that this game hasn't adhered to the whole versioning, release drops, change lists w/ details concept that any software developer in the world does is a testament to the jacked up dev environment. Though, it is nice that they can deploy these changes without major downtime to the players.

Yeah, it's strange how well they do some things and how horrible they do others. They're able to get a lot of updates pretty often and the game has almost no downtime. But things like documentation and any sort of change log, forget about it. The new archery updates are great, but when I was trying to figure out what was going on I got a link from TownCrier to the official forum post, tried to look up changes on the wiki but it was out of date so I searched Discord, didn't feel like going through thousands of messages in hopes of finding the info I wanted, so I came to these forums, then found a link to a Google doc. In my opinion they need to put more effort into keeping the wiki up to date and not expect the player base to do it for them. Things like Discord, should be supplemental and for community interaction. They shouldn't expect players have to jump between all these different platforms.

[Taernath]

If only there were someone who could... oversee these tasks. A Task Overseer, if you will.

[Methais]

It’s because the officials are monitored by Stillfront you fucking morons.

Why are you still here?

[drumpel]

Yeah, it's strange how well they do some things and how horrible they do others. They're able to get a lot of updates pretty often and the game has almost no downtime. But things like documentation and any sort of change log, forget about it. The new archery updates are great, but when I was trying to figure out what was going on I got a link from TownCrier to the official forum post, tried to look up changes on the wiki but it was out of date so I searched Discord, didn't feel like going through thousands of messages in hopes of finding the info I wanted, so I came to these forums, then found a link to a Google doc. In my opinion they need to put more effort into keeping the wiki up to date and not expect the player base to do it for them. Things like Discord, should be supplemental and for community interaction. They shouldn't expect players have to jump between all these different platforms.

The best is when you make a comment on the officials about lack of info provided there and that a lot of info is given out on discord that gets missed by a lot of people - then the GMs get butthurt and lash out at players......

Like when OM1E5GA posted (Post#221, on officials in Combat, Magic, and Character Mechanics - Weapons)
"Why are we being forced to monitor Discord to catch any clarifications or get questions answered? Just cause I'm in quarantine doesn't mean I don't have better things to do then stare at a glorified chat room all day...."

Then GS4-NAIJIN replies in the next post (Post#222)
"All the questions you asked were answered already. Just cause Im in quarantine doesn't mean I don't have better thins to do than answer questions that have already been answered..."

I don't know about others, but I've complained numerous times on the official about how the official forums are the last place to get info updated and sometimes the only updated info we do get it is from kind enough players that happened to cross post messages from Discord. I'm then met with the similar arrogant, pig-headed responses from GMs as you got from NAIJIN.

In the end we just need to remember, it's our fault we're not on Discord and seeing the useful information being posted there by GMs. (just in case you can't read into it, this last comment was sarcastic).

[Methais]

The best is when you make a comment on the officials about lack of info provided there and that a lot of info is given out on discord that gets missed by a lot of people - then the GMs get butthurt and lash out at players......

Like when OM1E5GA posted (Post#221, on officials in Combat, Magic, and Character Mechanics - Weapons)
"Why are we being forced to monitor Discord to catch any clarifications or get questions answered? Just cause I'm in quarantine doesn't mean I don't have better things to do then stare at a glorified chat room all day...."

Then GS4-NAIJIN replies in the next post (Post#222)
"All the questions you asked were answered already. Just cause Im in quarantine doesn't mean I don't have better thins to do than answer questions that have already been answered..."

I don't know about others, but I've complained numerous times on the official about how the official forums are the last place to get info updated and sometimes the only updated info we do get it is from kind enough players that happened to cross post messages from Discord. I'm then met with the similar arrogant, pig-headed responses from GMs as you got from NAIJIN.

In the end we just need to remember, it's our fault we're not on Discord and seeing the useful information being posted there by GMs. (just in case you can't read into it, this last comment was sarcastic).

That's what happens when dev is run by a bunch of arrogant pricks with zero accountability in regards to anything because they effectively have no boss and can just do whatever they want.

[Methais]

5 focused mstrikes with a bow, with 90 ranks (+45 phantom ranks):


This would have been a lot more impressive if the target wasn't still alive after taking 5 shots.

[Avaia]

The best is when you make a comment on the officials about lack of info provided there and that a lot of info is given out on discord that gets missed by a lot of people - then the GMs get butthurt and lash out at players......

That surprised me. There are GMs I would expect that sort of crap from but Naijin has been pretty cool. Of course most of that has been on....you guessed it....Discord.

There needs to be something like this page https://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/scroll_infusion.asp on the website, and then copied to the wiki.

[Methais]

That surprised me. There are GMs I would expect that sort of crap from but Naijin has been pretty cool. Of course most of that has been on....you guessed it....Discord.

There needs to be something like this page https://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/scroll_infusion.asp on the website, and then copied to the wiki.

That will probably happen as soon as a player volunteers to do it for them for free.

[Voldemort]

They can’t have a boss to lay down accountability since nobody is fucking paid on staff (at least legit) so really the management is beholden to any fucked up development, balance be damned.

And Methais you suck at this game, every night I see your name flash by ... seriously you trying to play with your 1.75 cm dick or something??

[MokiePrime]

That surprised me. There are GMs I would expect that sort of crap from but Naijin has been pretty cool. Of course most of that has been on....you guessed it....Discord.

There needs to be something like this page https://www.play.net/gs4/info/spells/scroll_infusion.asp on the website, and then copied to the wiki.

Only onsite staff can change anything about the website, so I don't see play.net getting updated. Like, ever. But they certainly can update the wiki. I find formatting, table of contents, and whatnot on the wiki better for most. Search actually seems better on play.net, because it looks like they are using a Google CSE. You don't need an exact match, and it will do the terribly handy "Did you mean?" that Google is so good at.

[Methais]

And Methais please give me some attention, every night after I get home from my job as a gay porn fluffer, I dream about you being my friend and gay lover ... seriously could you just play with my 1.75 cm dick just one time or something??

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/497/040/471.jpg

[gilchristr]

Let me say what everyone is thinking ; 1.75 cm dick is MASSIVE!!!

Right everyone...???

Right???

[BriarFox]

90 ranks of MOC with dual 4x hand crossbows (135 phantom ranks as a ranger). 10 focused shots against plate-class armor. 6 second RT.


>mstr fire other constr
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With great haste, you let loose a volley of shots against a greater construct!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +506 vs DS: +367 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +77 = +230
... and hit for 23 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the right leg.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +502 vs DS: +352 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +87 = +251
... and hit for 21 points of damage!
Minor strike under the left eye, that was close!
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +506 vs DS: +337 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +11 = +194
... and hit for 18 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the abdomen.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +502 vs DS: +337 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +56 = +235
... and hit for 21 points of damage!
Wild slash bounces off the back of the greater construct's hand.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The bolt sticks in a greater construct's right hand!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +506 vs DS: +337 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +79 = +262
... and hit for 27 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the left leg.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +502 vs DS: +337 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +43 = +222
... and hit for 19 points of damage!
Wild slash bounces off the back of the greater construct's hand.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The bolt sticks in a greater construct's right hand!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +506 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +85 = +282
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the chest.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +502 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +4 = +197
... and hit for 16 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the right arm.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct flickers momentarily.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +506 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +7 = +204
... and hit for 19 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the chest.
The shimmering gold aura surrounding the greater construct fades and goes out.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a greater construct!
AS: +502 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +32 = +225
... and hit for 22 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the abdomen.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.

Your series of rapid shots and maneuvers leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 6 sec.

[Voldemort]

90 ranks of MOC with dual 4x hand crossbows (135 phantom ranks as a ranger). 10 focused shots against plate-class armor. 6 second RT.

Does it matter how much screen scroll you create when you can just headshot it with a maul? Thing isn’t even dead after all that shit.

[BriarFox]

Does it matter how much screen scroll you create when you can just headshot it with a maul? Thing isn’t even dead after all that shit.

Does it matter how much money you spent on "collectible figurines" when your mom just drops them all off at Goodwill? You still haven't moved out of the basement even after all these years.

[Maerit]

Considering that you probably only have 4x hand crossbows, that's pretty cool. Though I think you'd get more mileage out of 5 shots with a heavy crossbow.

[Voldemort]

Can you dual wield hand crossbows?

[Donquix]

Nope. 135 ranks is 10 shots 1 handed, but only for briarfox. He got 2x extra shots as a perk for writing the art of the bow.

[BriarFox]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Donquix again.

:-(

[Maerit]

Can you dual wield hand crossbows?

You can TWC hand crossbows, but cannot parry with them, they get no bonus from kneeling, and have the DF of a crow bill. Took my rogue 3x as many TWC shots to take out targets vs just firing a heavy crossbow.

[Donquix]

You can TWC hand crossbows, but cannot parry with them, they get no bonus from kneeling, and have the DF of a crow bill. Took my rogue 3x as many TWC shots to take out targets vs just firing a heavy crossbow.

Definitely style over substance. But it's fun to get like 12 shots with flares. If they release script flaring hand xbows, which i assume they will (retser handed out some of his twin weapon scripted ones on test to screw around with, at least.) that certainly changes the dynamic a bit.

But it is an expensive training plan, and yes more often than not you're just better with a real bow mechanically. Though it was pretty funny watching people discover like, the core concept of TWC because of these things. like zomg so many hits.

[Alashir]

Definitely style over substance. But it's fun to get like 12 shots with flares. If they release script flaring hand xbows, which i assume they will (retser handed out some of his twin weapon scripted ones on test to screw around with, at least.) that certainly changes the dynamic a bit.

But it is an expensive training plan, and yes more often than not you're just better with a real bow mechanically. Though it was pretty funny watching people discover like, the core concept of TWC because of these things. like zomg so many hits.

Mmm that's a lot of flares. Pretty cool

[Methais]

Does it matter how much money you spent on "collectible figurines" when your mom just drops them all off at Goodwill? You still haven't moved out of the basement even after all these years.

He's right though, for the first time in his entire pathetic life. All that flash, with most hits well over 200+ endrolls, and the thing still walking is pretty meh.

[BriarFox]

He's right though, for the first time in his entire pathetic life. All that flash, with most hits well over 200+ endrolls, and the thing still walking is pretty meh.

Well, to be fair, I had to specifically choose an mstrike that didn't kill the target. Everything else was dead before I got all 10 shots off. Thus a construct - uncrittable and in plate.

[Methais]

Well, to be fair, I had to specifically choose an mstrike that didn't kill the target. Everything else was dead before I got all 10 shots off. Thus a construct - uncrittable and in plate.

Reported.

You should post some clips of normal stuff getting pwned now.

[BriarFox]

For your viewing pleasure:




You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a war griffin!
AS: +506 vs DS: +304 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +25 = +241
... and hit for 52 points of damage!
Strike pierces calf!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in a war griffin's right leg!
You fire a rowan bolt at a war griffin!
AS: +482 vs DS: +255 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +16 = +257
... and hit for 59 points of damage!
Shot knocks the war griffin's head back by pushing on the inside of the skull!
The war griffin crashes to the ground, motionless.
The bolt sticks in a war griffin's right eye!
Roundtime: 5 sec.


You are now targeting an Ithzir seer.
>fire
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir seer!
AS: +506 vs DS: +399 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +49 = +181
... and hit for 35 points of damage!
Attack punctures the eye and connects with something really vital!
The Ithzir seer falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The Ithzir seer no longer bristles with energy.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The powerful look leaves an Ithzir seer.
An Ithzir seer seems to lose an aura of confidence.
The light blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The wall of force disappears from around an Ithzir seer.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir seer's right eye!
Roundtime: 5 sec.


>mstri fire
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With great haste, you let loose a volley of shots!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir scout!
AS: +506 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +18 = +217
... and hit for 54 points of damage!
Crossing slash to chest catches the Ithzir scout's attention!
The Ithzir scout is stunned!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir scout's chest!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir scout!
AS: +482 vs DS: +303 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +36 = +231
... and hit for 43 points of damage!
Powerful slash just cracks the Ithzir scout's shield arm!
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir scout's left arm!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a war griffin!
AS: +506 vs DS: +314 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +5 = +211
... and hit for 35 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures upper arm!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in a war griffin's left arm!
You fire a rowan bolt at a war griffin!
AS: +482 vs DS: +314 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +49 = +231
... and hit for 36 points of damage!
Strike through the palm!
The bolt sticks in a war griffin's right hand!
Your series of rapid shots and maneuvers leaves you off-balance and out of position.
Roundtime: 5 sec.


>mstr fire
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With great haste, you let loose a volley of shots!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir scout!
AS: +506 vs DS: +268 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +100 = +354
... and hit for 89 points of damage!
Crossing slash to chest catches the Ithzir scout's attention!
The Ithzir scout is stunned!

** As you hit, your bolt flares with a burst of fire! **

... 15 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left eye incinerates eyelid. Gruesome.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir scout's chest!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir scout!
AS: +482 vs DS: +184 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +56 = +370
... and hit for 77 points of damage!
Slash across back of hand, tendons sliced!
The Ithzir scout clutches at her wounds as she falls, the life fading from her eyes.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir scout's left hand!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir scout!
AS: +506 vs DS: +278 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +44 = +288
... and hit for 57 points of damage!
Strike pierces forearm!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir scout's right arm!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir scout!
AS: +482 vs DS: +268 with AvD: +16 + d100 roll: +67 = +297
... and hit for 79 points of damage!
Wild downward slash severs the Ithzir scout's right foot!
Bloody stump, anyone?
An Ithzir scout falls to the ground grasping his mangled right leg!
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir scout's right leg!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at a war griffin!
AS: +506 vs DS: +290 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +59 = +289
... and hit for 67 points of damage!
Well placed strike shatters a rib!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in a war griffin's chest!
You fire a rowan bolt at a war griffin!
AS: +482 vs DS: +278 with AvD: +14 + d100 roll: +26 = +244
... and hit for 61 points of damage!
Damaging strike to chest, several ribs shattered!
The bolt sticks in a war griffin's chest!
Your series of rapid shots and maneuvers leaves you off-balance and out of position.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>


>mstr fire cham
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With great haste, you let loose a volley of shots against an Ithzir champion!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +335 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +22 = +220
... and hit for 19 points of damage!
Quick slash to the Ithzir champion's upper left arm!
Just a nick.

** As you hit, your bolt flares with a burst of fire! **

... 10 points of damage!
Minor burns to back. Looks uncomfortable.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +502 vs DS: +335 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +33 = +227
... and hit for 25 points of damage!
Nice shot to the head gouges the Ithzir champion's cheek!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's head!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +289 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +73 = +317
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Beautiful head shot!
That ear will be missed!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's head!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +482 vs DS: +223 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +55 = +341
... and hit for 48 points of damage!
Strike pierces gall bladder!
That's gotta hurt!
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's abdomen!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +223 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +58 = +368
... and hit for 41 points of damage!
Strike dents the Ithzir champion's larynx.
Swallowing will be fun.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's neck!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +482 vs DS: +217 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +7 = +299
... and hit for 32 points of damage!
Strike pierces upper arm!
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's right arm!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +217 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +97 = +413
... and hit for 52 points of damage!
Downward slash across the Ithzir champion's left thigh!
Gouges bone!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's left leg!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
By amazing chance, the Ithzir champion evades the missile!
The bolt streaks off into the distance!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +190 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +30 = +373
... and hit for 44 points of damage!
Well aimed shot, punctures upper arm!
The Ithzir champion falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The light blue glow leaves an Ithzir champion.
The powerful look leaves an Ithzir champion.
The dully illuminated mantle protecting an Ithzir champion begins to falter, then completely fades away.
An Ithzir champion's movements no longer appear to be influenced by a divine power as the spiritual force fades from around her arms.
An Ithzir champion no longer seems distracted.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's right arm!

Your series of rapid shots and maneuvers leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 6 sec.


>
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With great haste, you let loose a volley of shots against an Ithzir champion!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +335 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +55 = +253
... and hit for 31 points of damage!
Nice puncture to the back, just grazed the spine!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's back!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +482 vs DS: +335 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +99 = +273
... and hit for 24 points of damage!
Diagonal slash to the Ithzir champion's weapon arm.
Strike misses but bruises a few knuckles.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +335 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +73 = +271
... and hit for 30 points of damage!
Slash to the Ithzir champion's shield arm!
Shears off a thin layer of skin!

** As you hit, your bolt flares with a burst of fire! **

... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to neck. Looks uncomfortable.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +502 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +52 = +258
... and hit for 22 points of damage!
Strike to right hand breaks a fingernail!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +323 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +100 = +310
... and hit for 33 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the back.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +502 vs DS: +311 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +95 = +313
... and hit for 39 points of damage!
Nice puncture to the back, just grazed the spine!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's back!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +311 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +97 = +319
... and hit for 40 points of damage!
Nice puncture to the back, just grazed the spine!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's back!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +482 vs DS: +299 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +76 = +286
... and hit for 28 points of damage!
Strike through the palm!
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's left hand!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +506 vs DS: +299 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +13 = +247
... and hit for 25 points of damage!
Minor puncture to the left leg.

** As you hit, your bolt flares with a burst of fire! **

... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir champion!
AS: +502 vs DS: +289 with AvD: +27 + d100 roll: +73 = +313
... and hit for 38 points of damage!
Strike pierces thigh!
The Ithzir champion falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The light blue glow leaves an Ithzir champion.
The powerful look leaves an Ithzir champion.
The dully illuminated mantle protecting an Ithzir champion begins to falter, then completely fades away.
An Ithzir champion's movements no longer appear to be influenced by a divine power as the spiritual force fades from around her arms.
An Ithzir champion no longer seems distracted.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir champion's right leg!

Your series of rapid shots and maneuvers leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 6 sec.
>


>fire
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir seer!
AS: +506 vs DS: +284 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +67 = +314
... and hit for 88 points of damage!
Slash to the Ithzir seer's left eye!
Vitreous fluid spews forth!
Seeya!
The Ithzir seer falls to the ground in a crumpled heap.
The opalescent aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The deep blue glow leaves an Ithzir seer.
The Ithzir seer no longer bristles with energy.
The dim aura fades from around an Ithzir seer.
The powerful look leaves an Ithzir seer.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir seer's left eye!
Roundtime: 5 sec.


>mstr fire adep
You concentrate intently, focusing all your energies.
With great haste, you let loose a volley of shots against an Ithzir adept!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir adept!
AS: +506 vs DS: +370 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +31 = +192
... and hit for 26 points of damage!
Strike pierces upper arm!

** As you hit, your bolt flares with a burst of fire! **

... 25 points of damage!
Flames incinerate right leg to the bone. Not a pleasant sight.
It is knocked to the ground!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt breaks into tiny fragments.
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir adept!
AS: +502 vs DS: +330 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +58 = +255
... and hit for 45 points of damage!
Strike pierces forearm!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir adept's right arm!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir adept!
AS: +506 vs DS: +328 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +4 = +207
... and hit for 49 points of damage!
Crossing slash to chest catches the Ithzir adept's attention!
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir adept's chest!
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir adept!
AS: +482 vs DS: +328 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +33 = +212
... and hit for 45 points of damage!
Well placed strike shatters a rib!
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir adept's chest!
You cock and load your ruic hand crossbow with a rowan bolt.
You fire a rowan bolt at an Ithzir adept!
AS: +506 vs DS: +327 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +35 = +239
... and hit for 46 points of damage!
Neck skewered, sliding past the throat and spine! That looks painful.
The Ithzir adept vainly struggles to rise, then goes still.
The Ithzir adept no longer bristles with energy.
The glowing specks of energy surrounding an Ithzir adept suddenly shoot off in all directions, then quickly fade away.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves an Ithzir adept.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around an Ithzir adept.
An Ithzir adept becomes solid again.
The shimmering multicolored sphere fades from around an Ithzir adept.
The bright luminescence fades from around an Ithzir adept.
The scintillating red light surrounding the bolt fades away.
The bolt sticks in an Ithzir adept's neck!

Your series of rapid shots and maneuvers leaves you winded and out of position.
Roundtime: 6 sec.

These are just 4x hand crossbows with ebladed bolts.

[audioserf]

You forgot to do Nuadjha holds his hand crossbow sideways before every shot, reported.

[BriarFox]

You forgot to do Nuadjha holds his hand crossbow sideways before every shot, reported.
:rofl:

[Methais]

You forgot to do Nuadjha holds his hand crossbow sideways before every shot, reported.

>REPORT Nuadjha isn't being gangsta enough plz ban

[Maerit]

For your viewing pleasure:



These are just 4x hand crossbows with ebladed bolts.

Don't use ebladed bolts they have a reduced flare rate apparently. Try it with some flaring fletchings on crafted bolts!

[Fortybox]

For your viewing pleasure:



These are just 4x hand crossbows with ebladed bolts.

So you moved away from long bow? Seems like everyone is going to do crossbow now.

[BriarFox]

Don't use ebladed bolts they have a reduced flare rate apparently. Try it with some flaring fletchings on crafted bolts!

Yeah. It’s easier to eblade though.

[BriarFox]

So you moved away from long bow? Seems like everyone is going to do crossbow now.

No, my STR is high enough that I can aim a longbow in 3 seconds. If I couldn’t, then I’d switch to crossbows. I’m playing with these hand crossbows for fun.

[Donquix]

OTF so squishy though, constructs aside. Go do rift now, make sure to 10 strike the cerebralites they like that!

[Maerit]

Well, if you're a sniper crossbows seem to make more sense for rangers with 608 since you can still COCK the weapon while in cast RT (3s hard RT), then fire the weapon for 2s after the cast + cock RT ends which ends up being faster than a longbow. And you're getting the +30 AS w/ aiming bonus, so you're more likely to hit them in the eye and get a quick kill. If you're killing the target in 2 shots or less, heavy crossbow when opening with a spell is faster. (3s cast RT + 2s Fire + 5s fire) = 10s vs (3s cast RT + 4s fire RT + 4s fire RT) = 11s. Once it takes longer than 2 shots to kill your target, or if you're staying in a room hiding for multiple critters, then you'll get faster attacks with a longbow for the cost of 30AS. For sniping, I think the crossbow is just better since you're not particularly worried about your defense and 30AS can make up for the slower RT by killing a target in potentially fewer shots.

From the open, I'd stick to a longbow for the DS advantages and the fact that you can fire the weapon in 3s RT with enough STR bonus while aiming.

My rogue has been enjoying the crossbow using the tactic to cock the weapon after searching an empty room, and I also appreciate the CMAN changes allowing me to learn more ranks of CMAN without level requirements. Having 4/5 shadow mastery, 1/2 combat mobility and 1/2 shadow dance by level 20 makes it really easy to start sniping effectively early on. By level 30 you can have max shadow mastery & combat mobility, so if you do get caught out of stealth kneeling you stand up immediately & can re-hide in 1s RT.

And since you're not using a lot of active CMANs, all your stamina can be devoted to quick strike.

[Elgrim]

Having 4/5 shadow mastery, 1/2 combat mobility and 1/2 shadow dance by level 20 makes it really easy to start sniping effectively early on.

Problem with that is Shadow Dance takes Shadow Mastery 5 as a requirement. So you are into that skill for 30 pts as a rogue before you can start worrying about Sdance.

[Donquix]

Problem with that is Shadow Dance takes Shadow Mastery 5 as a requirement. So you are into that skill for 30 pts as a rogue before you can start worrying about Sdance.

yeah 34 points necessary to get perma sdance, but because of the OTHER change with cmans recently you can do that at any level now which is awesome. before you couldn't max shadow mastery at all until level 30 due to the can't-spend-more-points-on-single-skill-than-your-level constraint. which was always pretty dumb given that active cmans are always bad, but literally fucking useless until you have at least 3 ranks. So if you're foregoing picking you can pretty feasibly double cman till 16 which gives you 34 for full smas and rank 1 dance. you could dial back after that depending on priority but perma shadow mastery passive and 1 second hide is so so nice.

[Maerit]

Problem with that is Shadow Dance takes Shadow Mastery 5 as a requirement. So you are into that skill for 30 pts as a rogue before you can start worrying about Sdance.

That's a good call. Dropped my mobility for now, and will pick it back up. Have 5/5 smastery and 1/2 sdance @ level 17 and will have 1/2 mobility at 18 for those times when I get spotted (like that ever happens)

[gilchristr]

"And since you're not using a lot of active CMANs, all your stamina can be devoted to quick strike. "

This! Not standing there for 3 seconds with your dick in your hand following a "setup" CMAN, plus all stamina saved for quick strike, winning...

[Donquix]

"And since you're not using a lot of active CMANs, all your stamina can be devoted to quick strike. "

This! Not standing there for 3 seconds with your dick in your hand following a "setup" CMAN, plus all stamina saved for quick strike, winning...

I can do both, thanks. Don't limit my RP.

[Alerner23]

What can you tell me about 'Mechanical Quiver'? I've heard about them but never used. I'm looking for a bow quiver right now and checking something like that (https://outdoorsly.org/best-bow-quiver/). But I'm still not sure. I'd like to know more about them from people who has any quivers.

[Malvadere]

What can you tell me about 'Mechanical Quiver'? I've heard about them but never used. I'm looking for a bow quiver right now and checking something like that (https://outdoorsly.org/best-bow-quiver/). But I'm still not sure. I'd like to know more about them from people who has any quivers.

There are three of them. In my (biased) opinion it's the best route for an archer unless you go super whale. The quivers have charges (997 max) and each bolt/arrow flares on every shot, often twice. You cast a spell at the quiver at it accepts the element, permanently or until a different spell is infused. PM me if you want more details. They go for around 500m, if you can pry them from the owners that is.

[Taernath]

That's a bot you're responding to.

[Malvadere]

Well shit I just like talking about them anyways...

[Fortybox]

Well shit I just like talking about them anyways...

It fooled me too.

[Pin]

Sorry to bump an old thread, but I didn't feel like reading through 18 pages...

Did these changes go live?

[Malvadere]

Yes