SimuCon - Important

[Mini-Spir]

SIMUCON - IMPORTANT · on 3/23/2005 3:28:50 PM 1010


Hi folks...

There seems to be a problem and we need your input.

We're looking at the numbers for SimuCon and they are, in a word, scary.

We are under contract with the Sheraton Westpost. That means that we need to meet certain obligations to them, most notably a certain number of hotel rooms booked and a certain number of people attending our meals.

What we're seeing is that the number of people signing up for the hotel is more than twice the number of people who are actually signing up for the Con. This means that people are taking advantage of the cheap rate at the hotel and planning on just "showing up" and not participating in the Convention itself. I think it's important that we let you know that those of you who are "crashing" the party are making it very hard for us to justify even having a convention at all, considering the time and effort that's put into pulling this whole thing off.

For those of you that don't already know this, we don't put SimuCon on to make money. Most years we barely break even. If this year continues in the direction it appears to be heading, we'll end up doing just as much work as we do for SimuCon every other year and we'll end up paying SIGNIFICANT amounts of money because we are not meeting our quotas.

I guess we just need to know what's up.

Those of you who normally come to the Con but haven't signed up yet....what's keeping you away this year?

Those of you who are "crashing" the party...do you just not care anything about the Con? Do you just want to see your friends? Are you aware that this negatively impacts the Convention? Does it matter?

Please note that we DO want honest answers here. While it's frustrating and disappointing that lots of you are chosing to crash the Con, giving us an honest answer about why you're doing so won't get you in trouble or anything. Likewise, if you're a Con Regular and aren't coming this year, we're not going to hate you for telling us why you're not attending. We seriously need to know.

If you'd prefer not to post your reasons, please feel free to email me at SIMU-SOLOMON@play.net and let me know what's on your mind.

Thanks in advance.

Bubba

This message was originally posted in Socializing, Conventions and Gatherings. To discuss the above follow the link below.

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=10&topic=2&message =1045

[Mistomeer]

Haha.

[Makkah]

This shit is funny as hell to me.

[Warriorbird]

I doubt they want the honest answer.

[Chadj]

SimuCon blows.

VegasCon is cool.

Just what I hear from the goers.

[StrayRogue]

Heh, the letter actually sounds as if they are hurt, wounded even by peoples choice to "crash" the party.

[Artha]

SimuCon blows.
I guess it depends on your idea of fun. From what I saw, people hung out during the day, discussing things of mutual interested and got fucking wasted at night. I guess that isn't some people's bag, but it's a pretty decent description of SimuCon.

[StrayRogue]

No offense, but I don't have to pay hundreds to go out with my friends to get wasted. But it does sound cool.

[Artha]

Yeah, it's expensive, which is probably why people are 'crashing' it. For what it's worth, it's pretty cool to talk about GemStone to living, breathing people.

edit: Without them looking at you like you have suddenly grown an extra head.

[Edited on 3-24-2005 by Artha]

[Edaarin]

Cry me a fucking riiver. For a company that's shafted its customers time and again without any sort of apology, this is such a small thing.

[TheRoseLady]

I had a somewhat difficult time reading that post, only because I remember what a jackass "Bubba" was to the players when they pulled that "we have been billing in arrears" crap out of their ass in October 2003 and were going to start forward billing with like a week notice. :lol: Some folks were taking shots at Whatley and he threw a temper tantrum like none other.

[Apotheosis]

hmm, I can't say that simu has ever 'shafted' me, in any way, although I was around from 94 - 95, then 3 months in 98, been back since summer 2003, I believe..

[Mini-Spir]

I'm not attending.. I'm not crashing.. But I'll be in Tahoe skiing next weekend! YAY

[HarmNone]

The whole thing is just kinda sad, to me. I don't think they really understand what's happening. Simu staff has taken the "family atmosphere" thing to heart. They seem to expect people to support them just because they provide a game. They tend to forget that they charge a rather large amount of money for that game. The players are NOT their family. The players are their CLIENTS and owe them absolutely nothing over and above what is paid to play. Loyalty and support "beyond the call of duty" went out the window a looong time ago, and it wasn't the players who saw to its demise.

[Galleazzo]

I guess it depends on your idea of fun. From what I saw, people hung out during the day, discussing things of mutual interested and got fucking wasted at night. I guess that isn't some people's bag, but it's a pretty decent description of SimuCon. yEA, I went a couple times, that's where it's at. Not a bad time btu I don't need to pay $300 to get frigging plowed, I can do that right at home.

You got it just right, HarmNone. guess Bubba swallowed the corporate okeydoke, poor sad bastid.

:no:

[SpunGirl]

I posted a reply on that... basically that the ticket price was too much to pay for what they gave in return. Costume dinner? A snooze. Seminars? Good, but not worth $200. Hanging out with my friends? Free, worth the plane ticket and hotel fees... just can't justify the registration price.

They DO seem like they're honestly willing to listen to opinions and alternate ideas, which is nice. I guess time will tell if they put those ideas into practice. I'm a little miffed at the responses which refuse to break down the cost, however. They tend to forget that we're not just gamers; people who play GS have expertise in al different areas. Several people who have organized large-scale events have posted saying there's no way it should cost as much as they're paying out.

-K

[Edited on 3-24-2005 by SpunGirl]

[Back]

What they charge is outrageous. Notice in the post he says in one line its not about profit and then in the very next says they barely broke even.

[SpunGirl]

Exactly, Backlash. And he's being really vague about WHAT exactly all the expenses are. I'm sure the food for the big dinner is pricey, but it wasn't THAT great, to be honest. It's not like they're hosting an open bar either... which we did at my wedding, with 200 guests and some HEAVY drinkers, and it wasn't even that bad. Sheesh.

-K

[Back]

Just read the play.net boards on this. People talking about spending $2,000 for a couple for the weekend. I about shit my pants! I’m sorry, if I spend that much on a weekend I’m fucking flying her out to Paris for dinner!

[Fallen]

If anyone hasn't noticed, the people's opinions lately HAVE mattered. Just look at the Stateroom situation. People bitched and they did what they good to make it better. Hell, EVERY major release that a significant amount of people had a problem with, Simu has done what they can to make it better.

You cannot please all of the people, all of the time. They sure as hell seem to be trying.

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by Mini-Spir

Hi folks...

There seems to be a problem and we need your input.

We're looking at the numbers for SimuCon and they are, in a word, scary.


I think it's important that we let you know that those of you who are "crashing" the party are making it very hard for us to justify even having a convention at all, considering the time and effort that's put into pulling this whole thing off.



GS is no longer a family but a business that is why no one gives a fuck about going to the Con. I dont care anymore but maybe Simu will get a clue about how screwed up they have made the game.

Effort and time for organizing the Con? Maybe the first time. This time should have taken about as much effort and time as it took for me to write this post. If it took more then Simu has no clue.

[HarmNone]

Actually, Fallen, trying to please all of the people all of the time is part of their problem. As you said, it can't be done. To try to do so is fruitless; and, in most cases, counter-productive.

Simutronics needs to decide on its audience and direct its efforts toward that audience. It's trying to hang onto the old and cater to the new at the same time, and it just isn't working.

[Asha]

Shit, everyone sign up!

If we don't I just KNOW they're gonna nerf 720.
:mad:

[theotherjohn]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Simutronics needs to decide on its audience and direct its efforts toward that audience. It's trying to hang onto the old and cater to the new at the same time, and it just isn't working.

I agree.

I have more fun talking in guild on WoW than playing GS

[Fallen]

So, Harmnone, by that logic, the next time the majority of the playerbase bitches about a change Simu should say "Tough luck"?

The recent mechanics implantations have been largely successful because of the staffs willingness to address player concerns. This is what this latest announcement is about. Simu is asking what players want out of Simucon, and are willing to work with them to make it happen.

[HarmNone]

What I'm saying, Fallen, is that Simu would do much better from the get-go if it would just decide on the audience to whom it wants to appeal and direct its efforts in that direction. If they could just do that, all this bitching and griping wouldn't have to occur because they'd have the target right in the first place.

I'm glad they're working to please their player populace. I just think it's too little, too late. However, that is only my opinion.

[Sean]

Originally posted by Fallen
So, Harmnone, by that logic, the next time the majority of the playerbase bitches about a change Simu should say "Tough luck"?

The recent mechanics implantations have been largely successful because of the staffs willingness to address player concerns. This is what this latest announcement is about. Simu is asking what players want out of Simucon, and are willing to work with them to make it happen.

So then by that logic if the majority of the player based bitched and decided that they all wanted 10x masterfully crit weighted weapons simu should just give it to them?

Surpringly enough, I actually feel bad for Simutronics. I really did plan on going to a Simucon, honestly did, but when more and more of my friends started leaving for whatever reason, then the whole thing seemed a bit pointless. There is no one I see in game that really goes to justify heading over there. Thanks, but no thanks. Perhaps, I should have gone the past two years, but it just seems too late now :(

- Arkans

[Amaron]

I was going to go this year but an addition on the house has to come first.

Next year when my masters degree is done I will have time.

That and now that my hubby is going to the national competition for Mech warrior clix I said I get to go to a convention next year if he goes this year.

J

[Fallen]

So then by that logic if the majority of the player based bitched and decided that they all wanted 10x masterfully crit weighted weapons simu should just give it to them? >>

What was the point of this question? How am I supposed to answer this?

A new game mechanic is introduced. Players announce their problems with it, Simu listens, and makes compromises within reason.

[StrayRogue]

They didn't compromise on a single billing issue last time I checked the Simu boards.

[Miss X]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
They didn't compromise on a single billing issue last time I checked the Simu boards.

Exactly. It was 'frustrating and disappointing' when Simu increased the cost of playing their games but we just had to suck it up.

I don't get it... They increase the subscription, the players complain, nothing is done.

Then... When the player want to get the best deal they can but it means Simu make less money, they complain about it? They should just do what they expect their customers to do, deal with it.

The guilt trip is shocking, I've never known a buisness to try and guilt trip its customers in to shelling out more of their cash than they really have to.

[Sean of the Thread]

"and we'll end up paying SIGNIFICANT amounts of money because we are not meeting our quotas. "

I will not be attending but please feel free to take money out of my inflated monthly fee to cover your costs.

[SpunGirl]

Posted by RGTRAYNOR on the official boards:

Well ... as it turns out, I spent a few days obtaining some current information. With the help of a couple veteran Simucon attendees, who filled me in on the precise facilities used by Simucon and the numbers in the past, with information about the approximate number of GMs and staff for which Simu would foot the bill for rooms, and based on the maps and information available through the Starwood/Sheraton website, I've been exchanging phone calls and e-mails with a Sheraton Corporation sales manager about the costs of booking the Sheraton Westport for a Summer 2006 convention. Included in the totals I was quoted are a full dinner and luncheon for 500 attendees, all the facility rooms Simu used last year for Simucon, hotel rooms for three nights for fifty staffers, and so on. It was understood that all I wanted was a ballpark figure, that the rates were based on at least three hundred guaranteed hotel bookings, and that of course I wouldn't get the discount that a longtime customer would receive.

I was given an estimate of $37,000 from Sheraton.

Multiply the number of expected con goers by what Simu is charging for the convention. Do the math.

Well? Any more excuses?

~ bob

[Sean]

Eh Aemergin is just going to find some way for it not to fit his perfect criteria.

[StrayRogue]

What makes me laugh is how Bevan complains, yet wants to be a GM *shrug*.

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
What makes me laugh is how Bevan complains, yet wants to be a GM *shrug*.

Having considered doign the same thing, I spoke with a few GM's..., if you cry like a bitch, put down Simu, GH's, and or GM's, forget it.

Finiswolf

Edited cause my fucking brain goes faster then my fingers.

[Edited on 4-5-2005 by FinisWolf]

[StrayRogue]

Strange. He's in the employ of them already. (though not as a GM).

[FinisWolf]

Hmm, if he persists, they will cut him loose, unless somehow he made himself invaluable.

Finiswolf

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by FinisWolf
Hmm, if he persists, they will cut him loose, unless somehow he made himself invaluable.

Finiswolf

I never visit the official boards.. but there is nothing that someone can do to make himself invaluable as he continues to bash his team mates and his "company". People like that are like rotten apples and if they are not thrown out, their disease will spread until you have nothing left but rotting apple mush.

[SpunGirl]

I've never heard of a mentor being kicked out of mentors because they bitch to Simu on the official boards.

-K

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Posted by RGTRAYNOR on the official boards:

Well ... as it turns out, I spent a few days obtaining some current information. With the help of a couple veteran Simucon attendees, who filled me in on the precise facilities used by Simucon and the numbers in the past, with information about the approximate number of GMs and staff for which Simu would foot the bill for rooms, and based on the maps and information available through the Starwood/Sheraton website, I've been exchanging phone calls and e-mails with a Sheraton Corporation sales manager about the costs of booking the Sheraton Westport for a Summer 2006 convention. Included in the totals I was quoted are a full dinner and luncheon for 500 attendees, all the facility rooms Simu used last year for Simucon, hotel rooms for three nights for fifty staffers, and so on. It was understood that all I wanted was a ballpark figure, that the rates were based on at least three hundred guaranteed hotel bookings, and that of course I wouldn't get the discount that a longtime customer would receive.

I was given an estimate of $37,000 from Sheraton.

Multiply the number of expected con goers by what Simu is charging for the convention. Do the math.

Well? Any more excuses?

~ bob

37,000 / 350 = $107

350 being a reasonable estimate...

$107 is basically half of what they're charging?!

If we add another $5000 for equipment/etc, that rounds out to $120.

.

I'm perplexed by SIMU's pricing as 107/120 seems more reasonable when you consider other conventions. Of course, that is assuming that the 37000 figure included the appropriate criteria.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I've never heard of a mentor being kicked out of mentors because they bitch to Simu on the official boards.

-K

I didn't say Bevan was a mentor.

[Miss X]

He is a mentor. :)

[StrayRogue]

How unlucky for the noobs.

[Parkbandit]

I think there is a big difference between staff (GM, GH) and a Mentor. I don't consider Mentors part of the staff of Simutronics.

[SpunGirl]

Stray, you're right, and I'm retarded. It was 6am and I forgot my knowledge:)

-K

[FinisWolf]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
I've never heard of a mentor being kicked out of mentors because they bitch to Simu on the official boards.

-K

Mentor's and GH's are very different! Having been a mentor, I speak from experience.

Finiswolf