Droppage/breakage

[Jank]

I have been working on a GS-influenced MUD for a long time. The idea is to have similar, but perhaps somewhat simpler, mechanics - so it'll be more like GS3, but with some unncessary annoyances removed like prep times and the experience absorption-over-time system. However, I am wondering as to whether to implement droppage and breakage.

Speaking of annoyances...

From what I understand, droppage as it existed in GS3 (and GS2?) was done upon decay. What you have in your hands goes to the ground once you rot. Because of how the janitor works, this would mean items are routinely lost. I currently have droppage upon death and no janitor. Once you die, stuff in your hands hits the ground. Intelligent creatures can pick up weapons/shields and use them. There is no chance for items to be lost except if the game shut down or someone killed the creature and took it, so I do not see much of a downside.

As for breakage, I have not implemented this and was wondering if anyone at all likes this. Ophion was going to implement this for a while in GS4 but it never happened. The benefits are (I suppose) to even the playing field since even mega-equipment can break and certain materials (something akin to glaes) might become more desirable due to their toughness so it can add complexity in that way. And there's even more of an incentive not to rely on equipment at all, like pure spellcasters or a Monk-type profession.

So, are these shitty features that should not exist? Do they add more stakes to a game? Thanks in advance for your input.

[Methais]

I don’t know, but just make sure you call it Jemstone Fore.

[Murrandii]

Breakage is important in a game to add stress in combat. Seeking more sturdy equipment becomes a tactical choice. ( vs, for example, certain materials that are more fragile but yield better benefits (feras would be a good example)). (so tactical choice)
Also, in the tactical field, a warrior would get advantages as they often train in 2-3 weapon styles vs a semi.

In gemstone, breakage was also a silver drain. And God knows we need one. ( so economical choice)

Someone said a couple of weeks ago that breakage in gs3 was "replaced" by chargeable enhancement. It isn't false per se but for people like me that use NO enhancement, it's a false debate.

So why breakage? Tactical and economical choice.

Droppage.

Droppage is a result of a mechanical maneuver. Disarming is a tactic to weaken someone in order to get advantage on em (either offensive or defensive). By removing droppage, you remove this aspect.


Problems with droppage, we all know it, is the janitor in gemstone. They "solve" it with their recover system but i doubt it works for other items like shields and stuff.

All and all, it's a binary choice: Do you want details in your game (more complicated) or you want it simple.

You see it in gemstone: there are lovers of mechnical aspects in gemstone (understanding and exploiting em). They are a few. Most people in gemstone don't understand half of the mechanics and just… let it go

[Astray]

Breakage is stupid and only adds tedium.

Droppage should be a penalty but one for people that actually 'deserve' it.

[Seran]

A lot of it depends on whether you're including PVP mechanics or not. One very long running text based MMO known as ArcticMUD has full droppage upon any death. Players may or may not be able to loot their own corpses before another player, an NPC mobile or zone reset. For this reason there's a fairly detailed criminal justice flagging system allowing folks to attack one another in normal peace rooms to attempt recovery.

[Jank]

Seran,

Yes, it is typical for DikuMUDs to generate a lootable corpse upon death. I would say for hack-and-slash MUDs that is standard. It is harsh as hell though.

There will be PvP. In fact, it will be an environment much like Shattered (no rules) in terms of PvP. Definitely not carebear playtime like GS. Beyond safe rooms, you're on your own.

There may be a coded justice system for in-town such as flagged outlaws, jail, a bounty system, etc. The easiest system to implement is flagging PvPers and corpse-looters with "noquit" meaning they cannot quit for a certain time, and may be attacked in safe rooms.


Methais,

You're close than you think. My working title has been GrindStone 5.


Astray,

What do you mean by "deserve"? Isn't it enough that they died?

[Astray]

Astray,

What do you mean by "deserve"? Isn't it enough that they died?

I can't remember what game had it but certain PvP or PKers had their gear drop if they griefed people. 'Red names' and all that.

[Taernath]

Droppage, no, full stop.

Breakage, no, full stop.

Some kind of maintenance system, maybe, but it needs to be non-intrusive and relatively easy on the users.

I play GS as a power fantasy. I just want to dress up my barbie and kill some goblins. I don't want to lose a sword I spent a ton of silvers/time/cash on just because a critter rolled 100 twice and it snaps or I die and for whatever reason can't get it back.

[Gelston]

Degradation is cool, not 100% to make something unusable though. Maybe degradation of weighting/padding and enchant. All this repairable without a massive hassle, perhaps up to 80% from an NPC and 100% by a player, maybe even a temp 110% status expert repairers can have. Droppage is dumb. Outright destruction of items is dumb.

[Mathari]

Just here to join with the others saying droppage/breakage (especially without outright item loss) would suck, IMO. I'm very glad GS never implemented it.

[Ardwen]

The original gemstone 2/3 droppage system was fairly logical, if you die the items in your hands fell to the ground, if you decayed everything save a few rare things fell to the ground, that is Rapture cloaks became insanely valuable originally. Well that and if you got arrested you kept the cloaks and contents. The issue back then wasn't the system, it was the people that dragged bodies off to hidden corners of the game and let them decay to steal their gear. Which happened rather often since there was no way to stop dragging back then. Given a decent playerbase that didn't steal your shit when ya lost it and helped you recover it if it did drop the system worked fairly well, most of the time anyway.

[Methais]

The original gemstone 2/3 droppage system was fairly logical, if you die the items in your hands fell to the ground, if you decayed everything save a few rare things fell to the ground, that is Rapture cloaks became insanely valuable originally. Well that and if you got arrested you kept the cloaks and contents. The issue back then wasn't the system, it was the people that dragged bodies off to hidden corners of the game and let them decay to steal their gear. Which happened rather often since there was no way to stop dragging back then. Given a decent playerbase that didn't steal your shit when ya lost it and helped you recover it if it did drop the system worked fairly well, most of the time anyway.

Now that everyone’s old and dying irl...

https://i.imgur.com/iMkvbD2.jpg

[Maerit]

The best way to implement these kinds of features is to ensure there is a necessity to players having equipment such as weapons and armor, but the equipment is not, on it's own, powerful. That way you aren't carrying an uber weapon you spent years upgrading to have it lost to game mechanics.

Tie the power improvements to character modifications. Things that allow you to empower your weapons, but which is permanently attached to the character (i.e. runes, sigils, tatoos, imbedded gems... whatever). Want to boost your Attack Strength? Upgrade the runes on your arms. Want to increase your defense? Upgrade the sigil on your chest... Padding, weighting, rare script type enhancements, statistic boosts.

Then have weapons and armor which provide some benefit due to quality, but the benefit is not paramount. Weapon flares, for example, which are standard or can be obtained magically with upkeep (i.e. a permanent fire flaring weapon vs having to eblade something), but the critical damage modifier, and the attack strength boosting portion is tied to your character.

Then when the weapon is disarmed or looted / breaks the player loses their combat ability until they replace the weapon, but replacing the weapon isn't going to break their bank (in-game or out of game).

This also helps with power creep. Someone won't have a weapon that annihilates players, and you can restrict the level of character modifications to slots, so you can't say stack bonuses like crazy and become god-like. Especially if said game were to encourage any form of PvP.

[audioserf]

You can’t sell players a $1000 P2W weapon and then implement a way it can be broken or lost. It’s one of the other and Simu have already chosen P2W.

[Ardwen]

Make sure Methais is not invited to my Funeral people!

[Methais]

Make sure Methais is not invited to my Funeral people!

No need to worry. I don't attend the funerals of poor people.

[Ardwen]

So how are you going to be buried? Tossed out of the back of a moving van driving on the interstate?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

So how are you going to be buried? Tossed out of the back of a moving van driving on the interstate?

I've never actually thought about how I'll be buried, burned, whatever. Not my problem.

[Gelston]

I've never actually thought about how I'll be buried, burned, whatever. Not my problem.

I'm going to be mummified and then wreck bitches like 3000 years later when I come back to life.

[Methais]

So how are you going to be buried? Tossed out of the back of a moving van driving on the interstate?

Well yeah. What else would I do? Fuck traffic, I'm getting the last laugh here.