Returning Rogue Build Help

[Hibagon]

Returning from 1998 and decided to play the rogue I had started. I read through the guide on the wiki, but I'm still struggling and think I am missing something. Current Build & Stats:


Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 147 47
Edged Weapons......................| 152 52
Ambush.............................| 152 52
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Dodging............................| 152 52
Survival...........................| 102 24
Disarming Traps....................| 152 52
Picking Locks......................| 152 52
Stalking and Hiding................| 152 52
Perception.........................| 152 52
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 102 24
Trading............................| 105 25


Strength (STR): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Constitution (CON): 68 (9) ... 65 (7)
Dexterity (DEX): 98 (29) ... 98 (29)
Agility (AGI): 100 (35) ... 100 (35)
Discipline (DIS): 77 (8) ... 77 (8)
Aura (AUR): 75 (12) ... 75 (12)
Logic (LOG): 62 (6) ... 62 (6)
Intuition (INT): 62 (6) ... 62 (6)
Wisdom (WIS): 64 (7) ... 64 (7)
Influence (INF): 44 (2) ... 44 (2)


Currently 24th level, basic gear (non-magic AsG 12 armor, vultite dagger, glaes buckler), fighting krovlin mercs and warriors in River's Rest (17th and 19th level) to try and find the groove of combat again. I am finding that if I don't get a critical and a kill, or get hidden before they swing, the mobs tear me up. My AS is +220, my DS is +96 in offensive. In fact I had to go into the wilds to get my AS/DS numbers and a forest troll 1 shot me easily. What did I do wrong with my build? Seems like my defense is way too low without any sort of magical assistance.

Any help out there?

[audioserf]

I don’t know how to tell you this but you’re using a shield and have zero ranks of shield use training

Besides that I got nothing I don’t have a rogue but good luck

[wetsand]

Unless I'm missing it, you have no secondary defense skill trained(shield or TWC).

[Hibagon]

Interesting, the wiki said pick one; dodge or shield. I guess a secondary is required?

[Hibagon]

I'm aware, but I had it and figured it wouldn't hurt if it added anything at all.

[Palcron]

You could dump first aid, survival, and trading for now and apply those tps elsewhere. You should definitely train in shield use if you want to go that route, or you can do TWC if you wanted to dual wield. And if you don’t absolutely need to pick/disarm, those two are easy to drop. If you really want to pick, you need 10 or so ranks of AS to disarm scarabs.

As for DS problems, it’s easy to find mass spells being cast. Even just guards, blurs, and colors will make a huge difference at low levels.

[Hibagon]

You could dump first aid, survival, and trading for now and apply those tps elsewhere. You should definitely train in shield use if you want to go that route, or you can do TWC if you wanted to dual wield. And if you don’t absolutely need to pick/disarm, those two are easy to drop. If you really want to pick, you need 10 or so ranks of AS to disarm scarabs.

As for DS problems, it’s easy to find mass spells being cast. Even just guards, blurs, and colors will make a huge difference at low levels.

I'm missing something...I moved a bunch of stuff around (picking/disarm mainly, no combat skills changed) and got 52 ranks of TWC and my DS went down to 82.

[Avaia]

What two weapons are you using?

[Hibagon]

What two weapons are you using?

A imflass broadsword and a vultite main gauche (what I had available, willing to try something new)

And my new skillset:


Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Two Weapon Combat..................| 152 52
Armor Use..........................| 120 30
Combat Maneuvers...................| 147 47
Edged Weapons......................| 152 52
Ambush.............................| 152 52
Physical Fitness...................| 140 40
Dodging............................| 152 52
Disarming Traps....................| 102 24
Picking Locks......................| 102 24
Stalking and Hiding................| 152 52
Perception.........................| 152 52
Climbing...........................| 50 10
Swimming...........................| 50 10
First Aid..........................| 102 24
Trading............................| 105 25

[Palcron]

It's been years since I used TWC, but when I did, I used two shortswords and it worked well. I think I did 80 ranks in armor use (I was obviously over 24 at the time), 2x edge, 1.5x TWC, 1.5x CM, 2x ambush, 2x PF, 2x dodge, 2x S&H, 2x perception.

Keep in mind that at 24, you can use pretty much any weapon or set of armor that you want, and it isn't hard to find 5x or even 6x stuff for cheap. That bonus AS/DS could make a big difference if you're using 4x or below currently.

And really, if DS is the issue, get a set of mass spells or bug a wizard for spells. There are lots of people around who don't mind helping out.

[kutter]

Ok, I will be the one to talk about the 800lb gorilla in the room, your stats are a wreck. Sure they are nice for now, but they will become an issue soon. At only 24th level, I would re-roll and start all over with better stat placement and it will give you time to play around with builds since you can instant migrate all skills anytime you want before 20 trains, you also get 5 stat resets during that time so you can optimize for getting to 20 then at 19.5 decide if you want to set for cap or something lower and get a fixstat later.

Getting to 20 trains would probably only take a couple of weeks.

[Hibagon]

Ok, I will be the one to talk about the 800lb gorilla in the room, your stats are a wreck. Sure they are nice for now, but they will become an issue soon. At only 24th level, I would re-roll and start all over with better stat placement and it will give you time to play around with builds since you can instant migrate all skills anytime you want before 20 trains, you also get 5 stat resets during that time so you can optimize for getting to 20 then at 19.5 decide if you want to set for cap or something lower and get a fixstat later.

Getting to 20 trains would probably only take a couple of weeks.

Thanks. My stats were setup in 1998 so I'm not surprised. Is the new rogue guide on the wiki a good plan to follow?

[Versin]

I echo the suggestion to start a new character and get the instant skill changes (and stat resets) so you can experiment with different play styles. Rogues are very versatile. The wiki guide is a fine start.

Spells are easy to find and make a big difference at lower levels.

A lot has changed since 1998. Do you know about lich? The adventurer's guild?

[kutter]

It is a good starting point yes. The simple fact is that rogues need some love from Simu, they seem to be the only class that has not gotten significant updates since I started playing in 98 like you. That being said, they are still the best pickers and can be excellent hunters but there do seem to be some disparities between them and warriors in terms of abilities. I got so frustrated with my rogue that I just went to 3X in pick skills so he could pick for my capped wizard and he learns really well on capped boxes at 77, there are a few he cannot get the traps on yet but mostly he gets everything.

If you want to be a hunting rogue, my suggestion would be heavy on stalk and hide and ambush and consider UAC. You should be able to do that and be at least 2X in picking skills which means you will be able to get all of your own boxes until at least 65 or 70 if you learn 4 spells. I have not switched my rogue yet because, well to be honest he has 2 - 7X perfect enchant wakizashi with one having major fire flares, so I am being kind of hard headed about it since I do not want to give them up but if I was starting one today, UAC all the way.

I would say it is hard to screw up a rogue, with them being so good at so many things, so just do some reading, figure out what you want them to be and go.

[Sile]

It is a good starting point yes. The simple fact is that rogues need some love from Simu, they seem to be the only class that has not gotten significant updates since I started playing in 98 like you. That being said, they are still the best pickers and can be excellent hunters but there do seem to be some disparities between them and warriors in terms of abilities. I got so frustrated with my rogue that I just went to 3X in pick skills so he could pick for my capped wizard and he learns really well on capped boxes at 77, there are a few he cannot get the traps on yet but mostly he gets everything.

If you want to be a hunting rogue, my suggestion would be heavy on stalk and hide and ambush and consider UAC. You should be able to do that and be at least 2X in picking skills which means you will be able to get all of your own boxes until at least 65 or 70 if you learn 4 spells. I have not switched my rogue yet because, well to be honest he has 2 - 7X perfect enchant wakizashi with one having major fire flares, so I am being kind of hard headed about it since I do not want to give them up but if I was starting one today, UAC all the way.

I would say it has to screw up a rogue, with them being so good at so many things, so just do some reading, figure out what you want them to be and go.

I feel warriors also fall into that for lack of development.

Almost everything a warrior does, a paladin can do as good or better. The only ace Warriors have is berserk, while berserk is amazing, if warriors didn't have that there would be almost no mechanical reason to go warrior.

I was happy Waylay was released, gave another tool to ambushers which rogues benefit great from, gives me optimism that there are more development for squares in the works.

[kutter]

I feel warriors also fall into that for lack of development.

Almost everything a warrior does, a paladin can do as good or better. The only ace Warriors have is berserk, while berserk is amazing, if warriors didn't have that there would be almost no mechanical reason to go warrior.

I was happy Waylay was released, gave another tool to ambushers which rogues benefit great from, gives me optimism that there are more development for squares in the works.

That is a hard point to argue since my paladin is a wrecking crew and terms of group buffs is way better than my warrior, that being said, berserk is an AMAZING skill if you solo hunt, otherwise, it gets kind of annoying having to find your party continuously.

[Hibagon]

I echo the suggestion to start a new character and get the instant skill changes (and stat resets) so you can experiment with different play styles. Rogues are very versatile. The wiki guide is a fine start.

Spells are easy to find and make a big difference at lower levels.

A lot has changed since 1998. Do you know about lich? The adventurer's guild?

Thanks for the response. I have been poking at Lich and the guild, all good things in my mind.

[Hibagon]

It is a good starting point yes. The simple fact is that rogues need some love from Simu, they seem to be the only class that has not gotten significant updates since I started playing in 98 like you. That being said, they are still the best pickers and can be excellent hunters but there do seem to be some disparities between them and warriors in terms of abilities. I got so frustrated with my rogue that I just went to 3X in pick skills so he could pick for my capped wizard and he learns really well on capped boxes at 77, there are a few he cannot get the traps on yet but mostly he gets everything.

If you want to be a hunting rogue, my suggestion would be heavy on stalk and hide and ambush and consider UAC. You should be able to do that and be at least 2X in picking skills which means you will be able to get all of your own boxes until at least 65 or 70 if you learn 4 spells. I have not switched my rogue yet because, well to be honest he has 2 - 7X perfect enchant wakizashi with one having major fire flares, so I am being kind of hard headed about it since I do not want to give them up but if I was starting one today, UAC all the way.

I would say it is hard to screw up a rogue, with them being so good at so many things, so just do some reading, figure out what you want them to be and go.

Excellent information. Thank you.