New player feedback

[Raser]

I played GS3 eons ago and decided to try out GS4. I've been playing for roughly 2 weeks and have some feedback.

This is a challenging game for newcomers. The progress is slow and the learning curve is steep. Even with some knowledge, I don't understand a fraction of the game. There is an attempt to give basic information when you start, but it's like drinking from a firehose. Even then, I don't think a fraction of the game is covered. I'm not sure how that's best resolved. I'd be tempted to say people will learn as they go - but, that leads me to my main issue: progression is way to difficult at early levels. I cannot say how things are at higher levels, but for the past 7+ levels I've forced to hunt at the same levels. Now, at level 14, I cannot effectively solo level 11 areas. I pushed from 12 to 14 hoping something would change and I'd be able to hunt closer to my level, but alas.. I cannot.

I'd highly suggest easing progression at earlier levels. At least for me, the game is frustrating in multiple ways and this is just too much. At this point I'm fairly certain I'm going to cancel my membership and look for something else. I want to play this game... but, I don't enjoy banging my head against a bed of spikes.

[Sile]

The devs of GS have lost their way long time ago. They rather milk the dwindling player base than actually do stuff to promote new blood.

Their website is arachiac and promotes events from many years ago. So many new players will see that and then move on.

They came out with f2p a few years ago, but th restrictions they added really spoiled what it could of been. They should of done full account privileges until 20 imo, then a hard pay wall at 20.

Their fees just dont encourage new blood either. With the evolution of games today with so many good f2p offerings, it's really hard to promote a game that costs min of 15 a month, regardless of what it offers.

Also if you haven't read up on lich, it really improves the experience long term, takes a lot of the tedium out of the game.

I do wish gsiv did more to promote new blood, i dont think the 1k average online players of old is hard to obtain if they worked on new player experience, polished up their website, and did a serious review of f2p system.

[Orthin]

I played GS3 eons ago and decided to try out GS4. I've been playing for roughly 2 weeks and have some feedback.

This is a challenging game for newcomers. The progress is slow and the learning curve is steep. Even with some knowledge, I don't understand a fraction of the game. There is an attempt to give basic information when you start, but it's like drinking from a firehose. Even then, I don't think a fraction of the game is covered. I'm not sure how that's best resolved. I'd be tempted to say people will learn as they go - but, that leads me to my main issue: progression is way to difficult at early levels. I cannot say how things are at higher levels, but for the past 7+ levels I've forced to hunt at the same levels. Now, at level 14, I cannot effectively solo level 11 areas. I pushed from 12 to 14 hoping something would change and I'd be able to hunt closer to my level, but alas.. I cannot.

I'd highly suggest easing progression at earlier levels. At least for me, the game is frustrating in multiple ways and this is just too much. At this point I'm fairly certain I'm going to cancel my membership and look for something else. I want to play this game... but, I don't enjoy banging my head against a bed of spikes.

Welcome back (even if it may not be for long)

This game is definitely not built on the current models of games, and its progression is set to be much more difficult than normal games. Even with Lumnis being introduced it is not meant to be a fast game by any stretch. The ultimate knowledge tool would be the GSWIKI.play.net site. It is game and player run and has any and all information you may need. Also any questions you have can be posted in the desired location for help. For example to help your hunting woes - what class are you and what are you hunting/strategies. Most folks can provide insight to help you optimize your hunting. If you are lacking basic 4x gear I'd be happy to buy you some and the community as a whole is also pretty giving/can cut you a nice deal.

The community as a whole is very welcoming though if you engage with them (even here despite what can be read most if not all folks in game are very nice).

Also their are groups that help folks with hunting and do events. I am pretty sure Drakes Vanguard (I feel like I have seen you in IMT) are still doing their nightly events which start near Voln in Whenimers Landing. They do their events at 8:30 EST and any level is welcome. They are a great bunch of folks. if you send a chat on Lnet or through amulet on global (ESP IGNORE GLOBAL) someone can navigate you there.

Anything else, just ask!

Ruol - Barking Bard

[Taernath]

Are you aware of the Gemstone wiki (https://gswiki.play.net/Main_Page)?

What class are you playing, and what are you hunting at level 14? There are tons of things at that level that are very easy to hunt depending on your skillset and location. Grab some mass spells (preferrably after getting lich installed and attending a Dreavening) and you should be fine.

[Avaia]

I played GS3 eons ago and decided to try out GS4. I've been playing for roughly 2 weeks and have some feedback.

This is a challenging game for newcomers. The progress is slow and the learning curve is steep. Even with some knowledge, I don't understand a fraction of the game. There is an attempt to give basic information when you start, but it's like drinking from a firehose. Even then, I don't think a fraction of the game is covered. I'm not sure how that's best resolved. I'd be tempted to say people will learn as they go - but, that leads me to my main issue: progression is way to difficult at early levels. I cannot say how things are at higher levels, but for the past 7+ levels I've forced to hunt at the same levels. Now, at level 14, I cannot effectively solo level 11 areas. I pushed from 12 to 14 hoping something would change and I'd be able to hunt closer to my level, but alas.. I cannot.

I'd highly suggest easing progression at earlier levels. At least for me, the game is frustrating in multiple ways and this is just too much. At this point I'm fairly certain I'm going to cancel my membership and look for something else. I want to play this game... but, I don't enjoy banging my head against a bed of spikes.

If this is an actual returning player giving honest feedback then you need to post this on the Officials. Posting it only here accomplishes two things. Jack and Squat.

[Frebble]

When I started, the appeal of the game was its complexity. It seemed like every time I played I learned something new, which just led to more questions. However, that was back in the mid-90s, so the game was simpler and smaller then.

Now, the game is easier in some ways (experience gain, spell prep time, Lich) but even more complex, so I understand how it can be daunting. I would ask help from other players, 99% of whom would be glad to help a returning/new player.

The game itself could do a better job of educating the player. Avaia is right, no one cares about our griping here, but if the GMs were in front of me now, I would suggest some quests like the sprite quest, that teach new players about the game world and how to operate in it.

I hope you continue playing. If you do, you will realize that the early levels are quite easy once you know where to hunt, how to train, how to master a society, and have some decent equipment. The game still has rough spots for certain professions in certain level ranges, typically pures between levels 15 and 25 who will struggle with mana. Nothing to be done about that except group up, which is tough when the average character level is what, 70?

[BriarFox]

I believe there is, in fact, a revised New Player Experience currently in the works.

[audioserf]

Your frustrations are entirely valid. I can’t imagine trying to wrap my head around the current game and systems as a new player. All resources for help are player driven (both the Wiki as well as asking other players). The game staff definitely don’t have much to offer here.

If you do end up checking out Lich, the HELP channel is great and the community (with a few exceptions) is very willing to help each other out and will be especially helpful to new players.

Good luck.

[Raser]

Thank you all for the responses.

As defunct as the forums are on GS's site, I wasn't sure where to post. It seems like any post would simply be lost in the jumbled mess. But, I'll figure out some way to get the message there or to them. I have already expressed my frustrations to a mentor in hopes of them relaying the message.

I have installed and used Lich - I agree, it's a great tool. However, for example, I've had to modify the code (likely a poor way to phrase that as I'm simply changing a few words) to use Advanced or Forward stance rather than the default of Offensive when attacking. That problem started at level 6 or 7 and has now gotten that much worse. I also changed it to continue hunting lower areas until 15, rather than the 12 or 13 it started to move. I also had to delay the previous move.

I am a Rogue, and have morphed my stats several times as I've tried to figure out if anything would help. I have acquired 4x weapon, armor and shield. I regularly use Small Statues for defense and rarely get other spells (largely because of the lack of people in IMT TSC. While there are people there from time to time, most seem to be AFK or low level). That said, I hate asking others for things. I realize that can be a good path at times, but it shouldn't be a requirement to progress. Currently I could keep killing level 6 (with the occasional lvl 9 mixed in) and move a bit further. But, it would take that much longer as I'm getting nil for EXP and I don't see how I am able to pick up and move to level 11 with their AS vs my DS - even after several levels

I may end up looking for a new hunting area and seeing if I can make it there, but it seems to me like they've simply modified things over time to where lower levels are near impossible. And, it's more than a little discouraging. I really want to find a way to survive - but, I won't do it relying on begging (or waiting on) others.

The whole point of my post here was really in hopes that staff from GS would see it and consider it. I can't imagine they like the idea of watching the game die, and based on what I've seen and experienced it is doing just that - dying (not that it's a secret or a new development, I'm sure they've know it's dying). As some have mentioned, the pricing structure does not help at all. But, I don't think that really matters too much. The players GS should be looking for are not the kid's playing todays pretty MMO's. However, player experience is huge and GS4 is lacking that in major ways. The wall I found is just icing on the death cake IMO.

[Rjex]

People who have been around GS for a long time can't appreciate just how steep a learning curve it really has. When you see it with fresh eyes it really hits you. When I came back after a long break it took me an enormous amount of time to get my bearings, and that's considering that many concepts should've been familiar. I can't even imagine what it's like for new players. That's pretty much why we don't have any, even if they're brave enough to register, they would just give up and move on. So it's really just the old ones reactivating now and then, and that's about it. What was said earlier is correct, it's all about milking the existing player base now. That's the end game until it croaks. GS is kinda like Sears, it just keeps on dying and yet is still there, after all this time, somehow.

[Fierna]

Don’t invest too heavily into the game. Play F2P and just have fun with people you meet, go to events and things. Do not buy into the pay events as a new player you would A.) not know the value of any of these items. B.) Probably get taken advantage of by career “merchants”.

There are great games coming down the line that you may want to sink your cash into. Think about them.

[Methais]

If this is an actual returning player giving honest feedback then you need to post this on the Officials. Posting it only here accomplishes two things. Jack and Squat.

He’ll probably get better info here than anything Doug or Krakii will tell him on the officials.

[Methais]

Thank you all for the responses.

As defunct as the forums are on GS's site, I wasn't sure where to post. It seems like any post would simply be lost in the jumbled mess. But, I'll figure out some way to get the message there or to them. I have already expressed my frustrations to a mentor in hopes of them relaying the message.

I have installed and used Lich - I agree, it's a great tool. However, for example, I've had to modify the code (likely a poor way to phrase that as I'm simply changing a few words) to use Advanced or Forward stance rather than the default of Offensive when attacking. That problem started at level 6 or 7 and has now gotten that much worse. I also changed it to continue hunting lower areas until 15, rather than the 12 or 13 it started to move. I also had to delay the previous move.

I am a Rogue, and have morphed my stats several times as I've tried to figure out if anything would help. I have acquired 4x weapon, armor and shield. I regularly use Small Statues for defense and rarely get other spells (largely because of the lack of people in IMT TSC. While there are people there from time to time, most seem to be AFK or low level). That said, I hate asking others for things. I realize that can be a good path at times, but it shouldn't be a requirement to progress. Currently I could keep killing level 6 (with the occasional lvl 9 mixed in) and move a bit further. But, it would take that much longer as I'm getting nil for EXP and I don't see how I am able to pick up and move to level 11 with their AS vs my DS - even after several levels

I may end up looking for a new hunting area and seeing if I can make it there, but it seems to me like they've simply modified things over time to where lower levels are near impossible. And, it's more than a little discouraging. I really want to find a way to survive - but, I won't do it relying on begging (or waiting on) others.

The whole point of my post here was really in hopes that staff from GS would see it and consider it. I can't imagine they like the idea of watching the game die, and based on what I've seen and experienced it is doing just that - dying (not that it's a secret or a new development, I'm sure they've know it's dying). As some have mentioned, the pricing structure does not help at all. But, I don't think that really matters too much. The players GS should be looking for are not the kid's playing todays pretty MMO's. However, player experience is huge and GS4 is lacking that in major ways. The wall I found is just icing on the death cake IMO.

Who’s your character? Dreaven does full spell ups usually every 4 hours in the Landing. Asking for a wizard spellup on LNet will usually get you a response too. A lot charge 20k, but a lot also don’t give a shit and will spell you up for free anyway.

I’m in both towns a lot. If you wanna drop your character’s name I’ll toss you some spells or whatever when I see you running around.

Rogues are also badly in need of buffs. Dev has ignored the shit out of them for years because they’ve been too busy nerfing everything and creating P2W items.

[Idalias]

I find one of the tricky things about GS is that there’s no reliable way to identify newer players (vs. alts/mules of experienced players or folks who just don’t wear a lot of fancy items or update their profile). I’ve seen your character in IMT TC recently, but like most of the players which hang out there, I just assumed you were 100% self-sufficient with 20+ years of game experience. I’ll be sure to lend a hand when I see you around town!

[Aeith]

I love this game, but it is very foreboding for new players. I tried to get a friend to join, she tried twice and gave up in angry frustration both times. The learning curve is so steep, and the sprite quest is a good idea but falls so short in explaining the basics of everything. There needs to be a LOT more handholding for new players. I remember it being pretty overwhelming for me at first too, and I was a returning player.

The game really needs new player experience development (which they say they are working on) and post-cap development (which they really should be working on considering how much of their long-term player base is at cap)

[kutter]

I really hope someone explained to you about moving things around for the first 20 levels, if not you can instant migrate any skill before you turn 20 and you have 5 stat resets in there as well. Most people, regardless of class, play like a warrior for the 1st 20 levels. get a big weapon, swing it around like crazy, get lots of experience until just before 20 then reset everything to where you want it to be. You did not mention about societies, you need to join one, especially as a rogue. Rogues at younger levels just seem to be gimped warriors that can sort of pick, unless you sell out to triple in picking and get spells, then all you can do is sit in the tower and twiddle your thumbs since most people now go to the town thief to get boxes opened. That being said, my first alt is a rogue and he is near and dear to my heart and at 77 hunting the right things he can be very dangerous, but when he is setup to hunt, he cannot even pick all of his own boxes and when he is setup to pick he is not nearly effective as a hunter.

Rogues are arguably the class most in need of work but it will never happen, the game will fold before that.

Attend dreavenings, use the Adventurers guild, it will get easier as you learn. I hope you manage to stick around.