Anatomy of a bitter divorce

[Geoff]

After 14 years of marriage, I'm now back to being single.

I'm not writing this to get sympathy, I'm getting more than I want of that already. (If one more person asks how I'm "doing, I'm going to choke somebody. How do you think I'm "doing"?) I'm also not writing this to rant. I'm not bitter that the selfish treacherous bitch I married took our relationship to this point... well maybe a little. I'm hoping this will be more of a thing other people can learn from, not a lot of people have been thru something like this before and I keep hearing "Oh man, I wish I'd known the things I knew afterwards before the divorce stated. I totally fucked mine up." If not, I'll at least get to vent.

Go ahead and give me crap when you think it's warranted, I'm proabably going to at least piss off some of the ladies so knock yourselves out. (Arkans, I better get a " Fucking Pwned!!!!!111111etcetc" at least once.)

This is day 4 of my big adventure so I don't have much to start with. We've split the money up, cancelled the credit cards we have in both our names and started fighting about what constitutes the communal estate. Does the artwork her parents gave us when we married count if they've always said it was hers and they were just holding it until we married? How about the wedding rings? If she has 100,000 plus airline miles from work travel, what does that count as? She "coincidently" dumped $2000 bucks into her car last week, how about that? We're also fighting over who gets my five year old son and the house so there's no chance of a no fault "do it yourself" divorce. Guess I better get a good lawyer. How the hell do you pick a good divorce lawyer if everyone you know says theirs fucked them? We've also both demanded the other person get an apartment and move out, obviously neither has. I don't think I'm going to be able to stay much longer but I need to make sure she knows I'm serious about not walking away and letting her take everything plus the boy.

A little background for you detail types; I'm getting divorced in Washington, we've got about $200,000 in assets including the equity in the house/401Ks and misc, no debt other than car and house payment, I make $60K+ a year, my wife makes $50K even. Let me know if you want more info. None of you know who I am, I'll provide anything but real names and naked pictures of my wife. (I'm keeping those by the way.) Don't expect timely replies, I'm working a lot and busy getting my shit together.

I've been up for 2 days, time to hit the sack.

[Alarke]

I believe the answer is simple... If everyone to talked to got fucked over by their divorce lawyer... ask them who their ex's divorce lawyer was. There's your lawyer!

[SpunGirl]

Ew, Geoff, that sounds tough. Everything I've ever read says don't leave the house, though, becaue if you do she can claim abandonment. Also, is the kid "yours" and only yours or yours together?

Just remember that he's the one who will end up really screwed. And good luck.

-K

Well you first fatal mistake was living in washington.

[Caiylania]

Wow. That sucks.

Alarke's advice isn't offbeat though, if your friends got screwed, going with their ex's lawyers would be a sound game plan once you check them.

[Xorai]

On an old episode of The Soprano's,Tony hears from a guy that if you go speak with a divorce attorney, then they could not represent your other half, regardless if you hire them or not.

Anyway, he goes around to all the good lawyers and speaks with them all. Pretty funny and smart thing to do. Just a suggestion, if its even true.

Edited to take out a comma, that probaby goes there. I suck at puncuation.

[Edited on 3-16-2005 by Spidr]

[Back]

Sorry to hear it. As I haven’t been married or divorced, I have no other advice than make sure to remain a father to the boy. My folks divorced when I was young and looking back it would have been nice to at least have a father around some of the time.

Good luck.

[Xorai]

Sorry to hear about you having to deal with divorce. Just try not to make her mad, whatever you do. She can seriously screw you over hardcore. Especially if you have a child together. Alamony + child support, alot of money.

[Parkbandit]

So, what happened to get you to this point? Has this been a degrading situation over the past 14 years or did something happen that triggered this response?

[The Cat In The Hat]

Well, Cosidering I'm going through something similar but not as extreme...

I would hook you up with my lawyer but he's in Ohio. very good man.

Children almost always end up with their primary caregiver, (Usually the mother) unless you can in some way prove she's unfit. if you intend to stay in washington you can push for 50/50 custody. He stays with you 6 months with her 6 months but you have to be in the same school district or close and willing to drive them to school. Usually whoever keeps the kid keeps the house (Sorry, but thats true) You can however push for the estate to be sold and the profits split if there's any equity in it. Likely won't happen, but you can try.

Good luck with all this.

Thank god we didnt own any property other than a car, which he can have. We do have a 3 year old little girl to fight over though.

[Atlanteax]

Originally posted by SpunGirl
Ew, Geoff, that sounds tough. Everything I've ever read says don't leave the house, though, becaue if you do she can claim abandonment. Also, is the kid "yours" and only yours or yours together?

Just remember that he's the one who will end up really screwed. And good luck.

-K

K would be correct.

Do NOT move out before the divorce is finalized and is being executed

As for divorce attorneys...

Unlike your typical civil case, you have to keep "bugging" your divorce attorney to be proactive in doing the filing and researching. More often than not, they'll opt for the "easy way out" and waltz through it with the onus being on you to do the research for them. That's generally why so many individuals say that they got "screwed". Both themselves and their lawyers dropped the ball.

Speaking of which, go back and look through all paper statements that you have accrued througout your marriage, especially your tax returns.

Have all cash transfers documented, especially the aspect that "proves" that you have been the primary one paying the bills and doing the house improvement.

...

Last but not least, be the one who files first. That way, you'll have better control of the "pace" of the divorce proceedings.

[Kuyuk]

since the bitch fucked you; at least share her nekkid pics:thumbsup:

that way, she'll be fucking PWNED!!!111!11!11!!


K.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Kuyuk
since the bitch fucked you; at least share her nekkid pics:thumbsup:

K.
I agree... revenge is yours! POST THEM.

[HarmNone]

Ummm...naked pictures of an unconsenting female would be zapped about as fast as they went up. :lol:

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Ummm...naked pictures of an unconsenting female would be zapped about as fast as they went up. :lol:

You make me sad.

If she consented in having them taken, I will assume, and you can as well, that she wouldn't mind them being posted here.

[HarmNone]

Umm, no, Parkbandit. That just won't fly. Nice try, though. ;)

[AnticorRifling]

If you want to keep the kid don't move out. Wait until it's court ordered that one of you leave, but at this stage if you move out to give her space and the kid stays at home you're gonna have to fight abandonment big time.

[Wezas]

If only you'd have... (http://www.hoosiergazette.com/2005/March/news/news003.asp)

[HarmNone]

I agree this is not the time to move out. The abandonment issue is a biggie.

It seems to me the wisest thing to do is to try to sit down and talk this out like to reasonable adults. There is, after all, a child involved. That should give both of you the impetus to control your angry impulses and talk things over with the child's benefit foremost in both your minds. The more horrendous the divorce, the more hurt to the child.

You've decided to split, for whatever reason(s). Now, your focus must be placed on what's best for everyone concerned, with the most innocent being placed first in order of importance. At least, that's how I view it.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Wezas
If only you'd have... (http://www.hoosiergazette.com/2005/March/news/news003.asp)

Let's see I live in Indiana, I have a secret nest egg, I'm pretty sure my wife will get sick of me....OMG IT ALL MAKES SENSE!!!

[Jennaen]

The two of you have chosen to end your romantic relationship. Despite that fact, you are still parents to a child together, and will be, for the rest of his life. At least until he is 18, you must get along, and do what is in his best interests, because that is the responsibility you accepted in bringing him into this world.

This isn't a time to see who can screw who harder. This is a time to set aside blame, and decide how to best separate your lives in a manner that won't tear you both to pieces in the interests of "getting one over" on the other. If you go there, your son loses, moreso than either of you. Time for you to both behave like the adults you claimed to be by getting married and reproducing.

That "selfish treacherous bitch" is your son's mother. Period. It doesn't matter if you love her, hate her. Your responsibility to your son is to treat her with respect, because THAT is the example he will learn from most.. how his Father treats his Mother. How a man treats a woman.

You're hurt, obviously. You're confused, angry, bitter. Those are all emotions a therapist can help you sort out and deal with. I'd recommend you both go, as a couple (one therapist, not necessarily joint appointments), so you have help in dealing with how to live with one another and do what's best for your son until it's time to actually move out and move on.

Divorce isn't easy. The end of any relationship is difficult, and especially when you assumed the relationship was for the rest of your life. It's like a death without a body. Many of the emotions are the same. Even for the one that caused or asked for the divorce.

Wishing you luck doesn't seem appropriate. Instead, I'll wish you strength, courage, and patience. The coming months won't be easy for the three of you. Hopefully you can make it through with dignity, and your sanity. And with a happy, emotionally healthy little boy. That's the holy grail of the war you want to wage, and should be far more important than paintings or rings. Stuff is replaceable. Human beings are not, and childhoods only happen once.

[Czeska]

When my husband and I spilt (in Ohio) the rule was that if I slept away from home for over 30 days, he could claim abandonment of the house and not let me in.

HAHAHAHAHA UR MARRIAGE GOT FUCKING PWNED!!!!!!11111111111

GOOD WERK ON KEEPING THOSE LIFE PROMISES!!11 ROFLOL

- Arkans

PS: That good 'nuff?

[4a6c1]

Heh. I'm doing the whole divorce thing right now too. Except I gave him the house and stuff he wanted. My feeling is its best to just get it done with and move on with life, SPEEDYGONZALES style.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
Heh. I'm doing the whole divorce thing right now too. Except I gave him the house and stuff he wanted. My feeling is its best to just get it done with and move on with life, SPEEDYGONZALES style.

Better than giving half of your assets to 2 lawyers.

[4a6c1]

The house he chose to keep wasnt one I was too crazy about. And he wanted all his computers. Meh. Hes a good guy. I really dont mind.

In my opinion, Its much easier this way. And now we can both move on. Without the mess. :thumbsup:

[Snapp]

Good to see you took the high road Jihna. And PB's right, at least a huge chunk didn't go to some lawyers. :thumbsdown:

[DaFilcher]

Hey Ranger, why all the hate on Washington? Just wondering what we are finally doing right...Too many damn Californians move up here and military retirees, so maybe you can spread the word it sucks.

[The Cat In The Hat]

Originally posted by JihnasSpirit
Heh. I'm doing the whole divorce thing right now too. Except I gave him the house and stuff he wanted. My feeling is its best to just get it done with and move on with life, SPEEDYGONZALES style.

Thats the way I feel about it. He can have everything since we really didn't have anything to begin with. We have Guinevere (Our daughter) to fight over though. That parts starting to get pretty messy.

[Tsa`ah]

Divorce always sucks. Never been down that road and don't plan on it, but in my view (and hopefully the legal system's) anything attained during the marriage (debt or asset) should be split. Unfortunately that means the cash she dumped into the car ... make her sell it.

The rings are easy, if you live in Texas. I do believe there was a case a few years ago about a rich rancher taking his ex-fiancée or wife to court over the rings. The court deemed that the rings were in essence a contract. Once the contract was broken, the rings were to be returned. If the rings are worth a few grand ... why not? If they're worth only a few hundred ... why bother?

Aside from that, you have my empathy. When my cousin divorced, he just left with his clothes and some personal affects and left the rest with the ex. The turmoil and bitterness just wasn't worth it to him. In doing so, the ex was more than agreeable to joint custody of their child.

The one thing that has always bothered me about divorce is the dark cloud that almost always hangs over the man. It's just assumed that the man screwed up, cheated, or something else equally deplorable while the woman is looked upon as a victim. Sometimes I just wish people would get with it and realize that women are just as often the guilty parties in destroying a marriage.

[Soulpieced]

Sometimes I just wish people would get with it and realize that women are just as often the guilty parties in destroying a marriage.

.

Amen brotha

[TheRoseLady]

I realize this is a bad time for you, but remember that those rings once signified a love that brought forth a child. I realize that it's ending now, but someday your child might wish to have the ring/rings. It's just something to think about for the future.

[AnticorRifling]

My ring get's tin snipped if divorce ever happens.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
My ring get's tin snipped if divorce ever happens.

Tell me that when you have a kid or two. Your priorities and the way you think about things change. (Well for most folks.)

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Stories like this make me question if I ever want to get married.

[SpunGirl]

Of course, SHM. The nice, friendly divorces never make as much noise as the messy ones do. Jake's parents are divorced, and they get along great. Jake and his brother stayed living with his mom with his dad 30 minutes away, he paid child support that they agreed on between themselves. They still spend every holiday with the kids, together. Totally amicable.

-K

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
My ring get's tin snipped if divorce ever happens.

Tell me that when you have a kid or two. Your priorities and the way you think about things change. (Well for most folks.)

You're right I should be like "Here kids this is a symbol of a love that died. Enjoy."

The ring is a symbol of that love that promise, when it goes so goes the ring. I'll either tin snip it or I'll put it on a wood block and hatchet it.

[HarmNone]

I can understand where you're coming from, Anticor. Yet, while the love between two parents may die, the love of the children remains...for both parents, in most cases. The ring that symbolizes the love that brought a child into the world might mean something to that child, even though that love did not last and the ring might carry a lot of negative vibes for the wearer.

It's something to think about. :shrug:

[Czeska]

I still have my wedding & engagement rings. I'll sell them when I get around to it. There's a curse attached to that ring. I'm friends with my ex.. but no, that ring's not making its way onto any part of my daughter.

[Jolena]

I have to agree with Jennaen. This is something that not only involves the two of you, but also your child. Having gone through a split myself when two children were involved, I realize just how messy it can be. The unfortunate thing is that many times, women will use the children to try and 'get one over' on their ex-spouse by either withholding the visitation of the child or by withholding visitation of the child until an exorbant amount of child support is made. I don't personally agree with that, however I do find that if the spouses are able to agree upon a reasonable amount of child support, the visitation goes much easier from both sides as far as agreement goes. Just keep in mind that she's his mother just as you are his father. And yes, you should control how you speak of her (at least when you are talking to anyone associated with said child who migh relay those thoughts to him/her) out of sheer respect that despite your differences, you did produce a child together and HE deserves it, if nothing else.

Also, ditto on not moving out until a court order decrees such. Abandonment is a messy ordeal to bring into a divorce.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Your priorities an the way you think about things change. (Well for most folks.)

You're right I should be like "Here kids this is a symbol of a love that died. Enjoy."

The ring is a symbol of that love that promise, when it goes so goes the ring. I'll either tin snip it or I'll put it on a wood block and hatchet it. [/quote]

That's pretty sad. Perhaps you'll be a bit older when/if you actually have children. You'll actually need to think beyond your own selfish views.

[Edited on 3-18-2005 by TheRoseLady]

[TheRoseLady]

I saved the rings from my first union, and as it turns out my daughter is happy to have them. Her father was taken from this earth when she was eleven years old, he was 30. When she looks at the rings she doesn't see that as a symbol of love that died, but as a symbol of the love that brought her into the world. Her father bought them and they have significant meaning to her.

That was the sole reason that I posted what I did. You never know what the future holds. I know that I did the right thing.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

That's pretty sad. Perhaps you'll be a bit older when/if you actually have children. You'll actually need to think beyond your own selfish views.

[Edited on 3-18-2005 by TheRoseLady]


Just because you want to live in the past and want to give your children something that represents failure doesn't mean I do. Hell why not give them all your ribbions that say participation award on them.

Right now you're comming across with the mindset that yours is not only the right, but only way of thinking. How about no. I said what I would do not what anyone else should do. Why? Because I'm not anyone else.

My parents got divorced when I was little and you know what I don't want? A ring that says your parents love you but they don't love each other, I got a copy of the divorce papers in my Marine Corps SRB. What I did want was some answers and I got them when I was old enough and that's great for me.


------------

Back on topic, please take to heart my staying in the house advice if you want to keep the kids, it's important in a big way.

[longshot]

Can somone explain a benefit of marraige for a man?

Anyone?

Oh,... this sounds good. I get to buy you a ring. Then, we have a gigantic party so you can buy an expensive dress that you'll never wear again... and then another ring!

I get to have sex with the same person for the rest of my life. Well, not the same really, because you will be busy putting an extra 3-5 pounds a year on your ass for the rest of your life.

And then when it goes bad? You get to fuck up my financial future by taking half of everything that I worked hard to earn.

Oh! Then, I have to give you "vagina money" so your lazy ass with no skills whatsoever can continue to live at the same level until you find another penis that will pay for you.

This sounds like a sweet deal! Sign me up for some of that!


To the original poster: Welcome to the first day of the rest of your life.

You are free.

You have been reborn.

[Brattt8525]

I always had a feeling Longshot was a romantic deep down :lol:

[HarmNone]

Heh. I'd have trouble explaining the benefit of marriage for either gender, Longshot. :lol:

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by longshot
...

This is why you never marry a needy greedy woman.

If she can't support herself and be her own person ... leave it for the next sucker.

[Hamurr]

Seems most of the theme here has been pretty wise.

My last divorce was extremly bitter. We still can hardly stand being in the same room together even though it has been over five years now.

That being said, we have at least been mature about one thing. I have never said a bad thing in front of my kids about their mother and to my knowledge my wife has been the same.

Never forget that the kids are the only true innocents in our personal messes.

Its the adults that fuck up the marriages.


Regarding rings. I gave mine to a male slut I have known since high school. He likes to wear it to bars and swears that it greatly aids him in meeting women who are pursuing one night stands.

Was the most tasteless thing I could think of to do with the ring. ;) God knows where it has been now.

[Kyra]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady

Originally posted by AnticorRifling
Your priorities an the way you think about things change. (Well for most folks.)

You're right I should be like "Here kids this is a symbol of a love that died. Enjoy."

The ring is a symbol of that love that promise, when it goes so goes the ring. I'll either tin snip it or I'll put it on a wood block and hatchet it.

That's pretty sad. Perhaps you'll be a bit older when/if you actually have children. You'll actually need to think beyond your own selfish views.

[Edited on 3-18-2005 by TheRoseLady] [/quote]

Speaking as a grown woman whose parents are divorced I can honestly say WHY the hell would I want their rings? My mother offered hers to me when I was 16 & I told her to go ahead & sell them for the $$...

Also I have 2 children & have been divorced myself, what are they going to get out of the rings?? A reminder of an incredibly painful time in their lives(i.e. their parents divorcing)??

I've never badmouthed the girls' father to them. Not once. When I still had my rings, my 11 y/o asked me why I didn't get rid of them...it would seem they aren't some kind of keepsake to the kids either. <shrug>.

I would say the whole "save the rings" is a personal preference, not a lack of maturity on anyone's part.

K.

[Geoff]

Just to clear up a couple of things:

-I'm not the one who's getting greedy, my wife's doing that. I'd much rather say "take your half and have a nice life". If we agreed about the kid, things would be different. I'm not willing to make a lawyer rich just to piss her off. I am willing to make a lawyer rich if it's going to affect how often and in what capacity I interact with my son the next 13 years. I want the house for reasons I list below.

-I'm the one ending the relationship, not her. I'll get more into that later.

-We're both very careful about keeping what's happening in our relationship separate from, and as transparent as possible to, my son. I have nothing to bitch about there.

-We did the marriage counseling thing. Did more harm than good.

-Everyone was right about moving out. I'm glad I didn't go with my first instinct. Now I just need to figure out a way to do it without going nuts.

-Yes Arkans, that was beautiful. Thanks.


I talked to a few lawyers the last couple of days on free consults. (Hint: if the lawyer just wants to answer half your questions with how very expensive it's going to be to do what you're asking about and "doesn't do references for my clients privacy", bad lawyer.)
Ranger's right, I'm fucked...
Some fun Divorce in WA facts:
-Primary caregiver is generally considered the mother unless shown otherwise, (I can't) and the residence is always considered the best place for the child to live unless it can be proven that staying there will negatively impact their life. (Damn, well maybe if I show she can't afford it after she gives me half the equity...)
-Equity splitting can be deferred until the person awarded the house sells it, if not doing so will negatively impact the awardee. (There goes that idea.) There normally isn't a time limit regarding when the house has to be sold. When there is, it's almost always after the child has moved out. (So basically I loan her $40K for 13 years with no interest.)
-Who's at fault is almost never a factor in what is awarded to who, whether it's relating to the assets or the child.
-There's a shitload of things I had no idea you could sue to get in a divorce and almost all of it is things the custodial parent can sue for only.
-And, the only good news, WA uses a child support schedule based on current combined income then taking into consideration the difference in income between the 2 people. I'll be paying a court mandated $510 a month plus whatever insurance, etc. costs we agree on.

To answer PB's question-
Things were going good for the first 6 years then she cheated on me. Before we got married I told her there were 2 things I could never forgive her for, cheating on me and telling me she wouldn't work with me to fix a problem before ending our marriage. Like I said, this was 6 years later and I'd been in the military that 6 years, so my perspective on cheating had changed some, not because I'd done it but because I'd seen how unimportant it could be in the long run. We'd been apart for 6 months, she's a needy woman emotionally, I wasn't shocked. After a couple of months of her swearing it wouldn't happen again, etc., I took her back.
The next 4 years or so things were pretty good. (Hence the kid I wouldn't have made with her otherwise.) She got some freinds at work that have total pussies for husbands and started to change. She was being told by all her freinds she didn't have to take the horrible things I demanded of her ("He wants to know when you're coming home? MY husband would never ask me that!") and how totally unaccepting I was of her, blah, blah, blah.
The demands for respect and changes starting happening on both sides.
We tried to make it work anyway and went back and forth for about 3 1/2 years then it got a lot worse, I've never really figured out why. She demanded counseling, I told her no, a few weeks later she said no counseling/no marriage, I said fine, thought about my kid and how it would affect him to not have dad around and gave in.
Counseling went about how I thought it would. She spent the whole time trying to get sympathy, the counselors to tell me I was wrong and had to change everything she wanted, etc. The realtionship got much worse after counseling started, I think because she was starting to realize they were saying some of this was actually HER fault, and she told me she would only talk to me in counseling from now on. (See item 2 of Geoff's pre-marriage relationship requirements.) I told her I'm not going to couseling anymore and she had to agree to talk to me. She said no. She's still going to counseling where they're telling her she's being unreasonable but all her wonderful freinds are telling her the couselors don't know what they're talking about, THEIR husbands would know better than to make such rediculous demands. Guess who's she's listening to?
I told her to get out.

This is turning into a book so I'll stop here except for a couple of this weeks highlights.

Most embarassing divorce moment: Getting drunk Saturday and trying to talk her into sex.

Most absurd fight moment:
Realizing I'd just fought with my wife for 10 minutes over who got custody of the 3 year Newsweek subscription.

(Don't mind all the grammar and spelling errors, no time to proofread.)

[Jolena]

Awww. Man, divorce is always so rough. Hell splitting up in any longterm relationship (over 2 years I'd say at least) is rough. Unfortunately, i can sympathize with you on the being drunk and trying to have sex thing. I didn't do it but my ex did. It worked for about 3 seconds before we both realized how much it wasn't going to happen and respectively babbled and stopped the chaos :lol:

As far as the living together thing, I'd just try to get yourself into a spare bedroom with as little things as you can get away with so your child isn't suspicious of mom and dad sleeping in different beds now. That is, if you plan to keep this from him until it's finalized. I feel for you though, this must be rough. Just try to keep in mind how important your child is to you and how much visitation means to you and hopefully it will help you get through the rough spots.

From a mom's point of view, honestly? 510 a month is not bad at all. It takes money to raise a kid as I'm sure you already know. The process of raising a kid isn't just buying things for them like clothes, food, and providing toys, school supplies, medical expenses etc. It's also supplying them with utilities, household supplies to clean their clothes, etc. If you take a moment to look at this without the anger and emotions involved that I'm sure you are rightfully experiencing, right now, you will probably see that 510 a month is rather reasonable all things considered.

I sure hope you guys can come out of this in the least scathed manner possible. Including your son.

Oh man. You're in the military too? You're doubly fucked. You just better hope your wife isn't a chaniving bitch. Which as it sounds you may be sol on. Good luck with the divorce.

[Atlanteax]

Well, as a male, you cannot win if the female (your wife in this case) cannot acknowledge that what she has done (or is doing) is wrong.

Seems like you're making the right move in trying to cut your losses and getting out of that relationship.

I wish you luck in that regard, as from what you posted, it looks like a long and weary road ahead for you.

[Warriorbird]

You are so shafted if you get divorced in the military. I am VERY sorry.

[HarmNone]

Why is it different for people in the armed services? I'm totally ignorant of the difference, I fear, and am really curious. :thinking:

[Allycat]

From personal experience.. my ex was/is in the military. We had a very agreeable divorce. Though because he was in the military, the judge granted me physical custody and gave him visitation. I guess they look at it as the father could be taken away at any given time and putting the child in a home with the mother makes more sense.

Also, the military has some odd things about marriage and the "woman". For instance, back when I was married to my husband.. he told me many times, that I was a reflection of him and to becareful of my actions (not that we had anything to worry about on my end, but he wanted to let me know how the military looks at things), that he would be held accountable for them. We lived on base.. it's all just a weird kind of living.. it's hard to explain..

-Ally

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by TheRoseLady
I saved the rings from my first union, and as it turns out my daughter is happy to have them. Her father was taken from this earth when she was eleven years old, he was 30. When she looks at the rings she doesn't see that as a symbol of love that died, but as a symbol of the love that brought her into the world. Her father bought them and they have significant meaning to her.

That was the sole reason that I posted what I did. You never know what the future holds. I know that I did the right thing.

There's a world of a difference between a couple that is torn because of a death than a failed relationship.

Of course I would want the rings that my mother and passed father shared. That's a whole different scenario since they were still in love when he died.

The rings of a torn love? No thanks, I wouldn't want them either. They represent too much bad joojoo.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Why is it different for people in the armed services? I'm totally ignorant of the difference, I fear, and am really curious. :thinking:

Basically the military has the means to provide you with meals and a bunk ala barracks living. Therefor you don't have a reason to keep the house, if you don't keep the house you don't keep the kids. On top of that since everything is provided for you and anything that you have outside of issue is a choice then you don't need it so you don't need most of your paycheck since all you should ever have to purchase is hygenie items and uniforms so that payment to the ex is going to be huge.

Unless you can prove the mother is a crack whore (and that's not always enough) you are going to bend over and take it dry as a male going through a divorce in the military. I have a friend that is staying married to this bink that cheated on him while he was on deployment because he knows if he gets divorced he won't ever see his daughter again as she'll move back home.

Visitation rights will be granted but since he's stationed in NC and she'll move back with ma and pa in Florida he won't be seeing his daughter much if ever so he has to sit there and suffer in silence to see his baby.

[HarmNone]

Ish. That sounds positively barbaric! :(

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by HarmNone
Ish. That sounds positively barbaric! :(

It can be. But then again you're in the military you checked your rights at the door. At least I did and I had zero problems.

[HarmNone]

I imagine, as long as nothing catastrophic happens, it's not all that bad. At least, you know what you're getting into from the start. However, for someone like Geoff, such antiquated thinking can make a difficult situation even more difficult.

I'm really sorry, Geoff. It sounds like things are going to be pretty tough for you. :(

[Warriorbird]

Pensions can go 50% to the spouse in certain cases, even if they've remarried.

[CrystalTears]

My cousin, who is a cop, got reamed hard when he got divorced a couple of years ago.

They were married for 20+ years when she had an affair with one of her coworkers (and I think he was a friend of my cousin's), decided to leave him and then moved in with her girlfriend. Yeah the last part was a shocker to some of us, especially him, the poor thing. Did NOT see that coming.

Luckily both of their kids were already at least 18 so he doesn't have to pay child support. He does have to pay alimony... a big chunk of his monthly paycheck... until he retires. When he starts earning pension, he has to give her a portion of that as well. The good thing of all this is that he was able to keep the kids and the house since she abandoned them.

Divorce is never pretty, no matter how easy one thinks it can be. Even when I was in court waiting for my own final hearing, I would see all these couples, all these men taking the stand and crying about their broken marriage. It was heartbreaking. I never want to go through a divorce again.

[AnticorRifling]

Ohh yeah I think it's after 7 yrs of marriage the spouse in entitled to a cut of your pension if you retire from the military.

[DeV]

Originally posted by longshot
Can somone explain a benefit of marraige for a man? Health. And I don't disagree with the rest of your post at all.

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by longshot
Can somone explain a benefit of marraige for a man?


Considering the tone of your post, no, I cannot explain it to you, and you would get little if any benefit from it.

I'm willing to bet there are plenty of men in this world, however, who I don't need me to explain it and get plenty of benefits.

Jorddyn

[Jadewolff]

I agree with Jorddyn and would like to add, you can rationalize the need to not have "any" relationship if you want. Parents, siblings, friends, everyone's a hassle. I wonder why people bother with other people at all...

[Edaarin]

Our legal system needs serious redoing.

Just ask Jeff Gordon.

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Kyra

I would say the whole "save the rings" is a personal preference, not a lack of maturity on anyone's part.

K.

I never meant to imply that anyone is immature, but with children does come a change in perspective. What you will learn if you stick around here is that some of us have posted for a long time and have learned a thing or two about the other posters. Many times there's more to a message than what you see, since you are relatively new.

:shrug:

About the rings, when Harmnone demonstrates that she knows where I'm coming from, then I know I'm not too terribly far off. She's the sanest most intuitive person that I think I have ever encountered. To each his own.

[HarmNone]

Ooooh, TRL! Can I tell all my rowdy friends you said I was sane? :rofl:

[HarmNone]

Actually, I can see both sides of the issue. I can understand someone who has undergone a bitter divorce considering the ring a symbol of all the pain and loss he/she feels. It makes sense that such a person could see no value in retaining what amounts, to him/her, as just another piece of baggage.

On the other hand, it just might be that one of the kids might want that ring. They might have an entirely different take on the whole thing. This is even more true if they are kept out of the battles and ugliness of the divorce. To them, the ring might be a symbol of the union that brought them into the world.

It's all a matter of perspective, I suppose.

[TheRoseLady]

Are they coming over tonight? :lol:

[HarmNone]

It's Friday! They'll probably be here! Hell, some of them are family and are here all the time! :lol:

[Geoff]

Another dramatic weekend, the fun just keeps on coming.

I went home early Thursday night (I work nightshift, which probably hasn't helped...) and got the "can we talk" request. She said she didn't want a divorce, wished I'd come to my senses for the family's sake, etc. We were up until about 5:00AM, there was lots of promises made and kissing and hugging, then she went to work. I spent the next 7 hours wondering what the fuck came over me, why I'd agreed to some of the things I'd agreed to, and why the hell I was acting the way I did, then went to work myself. That night I came home early again and told her I couldn't do the things I'd said 12 hours earlier. There was a lot of yelling (We had to move to the garage so we didn't wake the kid up) and that felt a lot better than the night before did.

I thought about it the next couple of days and figured out what my problem was. I was fucking scared to not be married to her anymore. I've been doing this for 14 years. I've built my life around this marriage since I was 20 years old and now I have no idea what I'm going to do. Knowing I was being a puss about the future seems to have straightened me out.

I told her last night I still need what I need and if she can't do it, we're still done, then explained to her why I'd fucked up and started making deals on Thursday. She asked me to clarify what it was I wanted (Why not, maybe the 34th time or so will be the charm...) so she could discuss it with her therapist today. I found out after she left for work today that my gossipy bitch of a neighbor knows all about our problems.
Wonderful.

In the meantime, I'm back to looking for a lawyer and finally getting some sleep.

I'll get back to the "this is how it works" and away from "here's the drama in Geoff's relationship that he's going to be the only one who really cares about" next post, maybe a couple of days from now.

A few random things:
-I'm not still in the military, I got out in '98. Everyone's right though, from what I saw a couple of friends go through, active duty military men get screwed.
-I agree with Longshot at this point. Anyone care to explain how I'm better off now than if we'd just lived together?
-I'm giving her back the pictures. (After letting her sweat just a little more.) It would be too tempting to use them for revenge. I still need to interact with her when it comes to the kid.
-I wasn't complaining about $510 a month being too much money. I'd be willing to pay more than that voluntarily and will if I think it'll improve my son's quality of life and not my wife's.

Latest awkward moment:
Going to bed in the spare room then us both waking up at the same time with me in the "our" bed cuddled up to her with my hand on her breast. (I'm going to miss that breast...) I guess I better pay closer attention to how awake I am when I get up in the middle of the night to take a piss.

[Souzy]

Yuck that sucks. I feel for ya. Marriage sucks.

[Warriorbird]

It can work sometimes, not work others. Very hard. I was engaged twice before I got married. Both of those first two engagements would've ended in divorce.

[JadeScarlet]

Sorry to hear about all of marriage problems. Never been married/divorced, longest relationship ever = 7 months now. Yeah, I can't give any advice. I could say do whats best for the kid, but I get the impression that you are already doing that.

I'm reminded of a case going on now in England. A woman who works as a secretary making 50k a year or so is divorcing her husband who is a multi-millionaire partner in a big company. I think he gave her his house his assets, and everything he had (120mil total, mostly earned BEFORE their 5 year marriage), but she wouldn't take it. On the grounds that he is going to inherit 600mil from his father! She is now suing him for his own 120mil assets and the 600mil assets from his inheritance. The father ISN'T DEAD YET! If I were the father (or mother in my case) I would change my will and leave all my money to some crazy charity just so the ex-spouse of my child couldn't get her greedy hands on it. I hope she doesn't win, but she did hire one of the best and most expensive barristers in London, who has won unprecedented amounts for other famous divorcing couples.

Not sure who originally said this, but I'm reminded of the quotation, "Being of sound mind and body, I spent it all on booze and women!"

All this divorce talk makes me think. I should make sure tosign a pre-nuptial for my original star wars action figure collection. Han Solo is mine and always will be.

[CrystalTears]

OMG Jade, that's the biggest pile of crap that I've seen someone try to pull. She's not entitled to ANY of that! I don't understand greed, never have.

Perhaps now that there's a case on it, the father probably can't change his will. Too bad. With that display I wouldn't give her anything either.

[SpunGirl]

120 million isn't enough for that bitch? Jesus, that's ridiculous. I'm all for equal sharing of assets earned during marriage, but that's not even close.

-K

[Ryenn]

In a perfect world people would be entitled to exactly what they put in.

[Xcalibur]

In Canada, after 1 year of living with someone else, you're considered as married with the division of stuff/children if a separation is made.

Don't know in the US, still.

A women is living a tough period in their early 30's, also. Keep that in mind.

As for the rest, do what you need to do for yourself, which mean, if you're doing something just for the kid, it's a "no" condition.

Children are more happy with divorced parents that acknowledge it to parents that still leave together but don't love/respect themselves.

[Farquar]

I don't have any opinions on marriage one way or another, but I have a small piece of advice regarding choosing a lawyer.

Don't use the damn yellow pages to find a lawyer. Any lawyer worth anything likely won't have a listing in the yellow pages much less a large, flashy ad that unfortunately draws a lot of unwitting folk in.

Use martindale.com, enter your geographical area, click on "search Martindale-Hubbell peer reviewed lawyers". Find a few lawyers who: 1) practice "Family Law"; and 2) are rated "AV". Call a few of them, give them the basic facts of your situation, and choose the one with whom you "click" with the most.

Good Luck.