duck and weave and stats

[Derex]

anyone using this? considering it also what stat to tank if ur not tanking influence?

im hoping to get 3x dodge and use this as well as prob staying in brig/hauberk

[Mobius1]

I've never messed with Duck and Weave because it looks like complete and utter garbage. 5 minute cooldown for a 30 second ability? No thanks.

And the best stat to tank is INT. INT is more worthless than INF.

[Derex]

word

i dunno the redirect and dodge boost just seems fun to me also really deciding if i should put this banshee token on brig or hauberk probably gonna go for hauberk since i already have a nice set of brig on my ranger

[Mobius1]

Well, stacking evasion just isn't that useful I find. It's such a slot machine thing, I'd rather invest in cmans that have a more tangible benefit.

The only place I could see this being useful is if you were dueling a melee user (Much like Shield Mind when dueling a caster.).

But then again, I've butt heads with rogues who swear by Slippery Mind, when I feel that in most cases it is junk!

[Mobius1]

Just a little more info on evasion chances, so that people understand why I hate Slippery Mind, and certain other evasion stacking abilities:

The formula for any evasion chance, of independent chances (Meaning that the dodging abilities do not stack, but are factored in separately), is: (1 - evasion chance) × (1 - next source of evasion chance) = (1 - chance to get hit) = evasion chance.

So the issue with abilities like Slippery Mind, you are in almost all cases never getting the full evasion chance. Let's say you wear brig, which is 15% Slippery Mind chance - That means that before any warding roll happens, that roll takes place first. But what I think happens with a lot of people, is they see their Slippery Mind kick in those 15% of time, and think they it's really helping.

But the reality, is if your Slippery Mind succeeds, that doesn't mean your regular warding roll would have failed. In the case where your regular warding roll wouldn't have failed, even though your Slippery Mind succeeded, in reality it did absolutely nothing for you.

The only time Slippery Mind gives you 15% chance to evade, is if you have a ZERO % chance to ward. But in my experience, even as a TD starved rogue, you still should always have SOME chance to ward.

Say your warding chance is 50% (Meaning, your TD is high enough that they need a 51 or higher D100 roll to hit you.), then your Slippery Mind would give you: (1 -.15) x (1 - .5) = .425. 1 - .425 = .575 = 57.5% overall avoidance chance. So in this case, you would NOT be getting +15% avoidance chance from Slippery Mind, but instead would be getting only +7.5%. And that number steadily decreases, the higher your warding chance is. If your warding chance is 80%, then Slippery Mind is giving you a pathetic 3% extra chance to avoid being warded.

Now, say you have 100% to be warded (Well, 99% chance counting 1% fumble), and your slippery mind IS in fact giving you that full 15% chance - Well, quite frankly, your ass is screwed if you're getting warded anyways! You better be focusing on doing your damndest to not get exposed to a warding roll at ALL, not rely on some silly 15% chance to save you - Your ass is still going to die a lot, and Slippery Mind sure as hell ain't going to save you!

Now, +TD on the other hand, as long as your warding chance is below 100%, is a flat +1% avoidance chance per +1 TD. This is the case whether your warding chance is 5%. or 95%. Also, this is why Kroderine armor and shield is a piece of garbage as well, because unless you are getting warded 100% of the time, that supposed 40% evade chance that kroderine gives you, is not even close to that in most people's cases, whereas a full ensorcelled shield + armor is a flat 20% chance to ward, period (which you give up with kroderine, since it can't be ensorcelled.).

So when it comes to evade/block/parry, this all comes into play as well. Though at least in the case of these, boosts to them generally stack within their type. So a +5% evade chance plus a 10% evade chance, really does equal 15% chance. But a 10 % evade chance +5% parry chance, obviously does not equal 15% avoidance.

[Derex]

Ya I’m probably going to put banshee on my hauberk considering I already have a nice set of brig on another character and won’t be in full plate for prob like two years lol

[Mobius1]

Hauberk is great if you plan to ewave a lot. It's decent CvA, decent protection, and decent MnE hindrance. I'd say it comes down to how much you need that extra 9-12 CvA from plate (Technically, you can get 210 armor use and only have 16% hindrance in MBP :D. But armor use like that can only really come way post cap, hehe).

But I am a huge proponent of MBP if you don't cast. It's cheap, training wise, and gives you almost all the benefits of full plate.

[Derex]

Hauberk is great if you plan to ewave a lot. It's decent CvA, decent protection, and decent MnE hindrance. I'd say it comes down to how much you need that extra 9-12 CvA from plate (Technically, you can get 210 armor use and only have 16% hindrance in MBP :D. But armor use like that can only really come way post cap, hehe).

But I am a huge proponent of MBP if you don't cast. It's cheap, training wise, and gives you almost all the benefits of full plate.

But it doesn’t cover ur head and whatnot seems overrated imo

[Mobius1]

But it doesn’t cover ur head and whatnot seems overrated imo

It covers your head with the DF of plate and the crit divisor of chain. If you run the numbers, you will see that your DF is doing a lot more for you than crit divisor, so the DF of plate is doing most of the work for you anyways. And a lot of weapon DFs straight up TANK against plate.

I'd say the main drawback of partial armors is you can't wear armor accessory enhancives. Thankfully non-armor head worns are a dime a dozen - but sadly arm and leg ones not so much. But even so, what enhancives are going to do nearly as much for you as +9 TD (-9 extra CvA over hauberk), and the DFs of plate?

In the end, I'd say it comes down to whether or not you rely on ewave and or 117 when hunting, and how much you want that extra TD.

[Derex]

It covers your head with the DF of plate and the crit divisor of chain. If you run the numbers, you will see that your DF is doing a lot more for you than crit divisor, so the DF of plate is doing most of the work for you anyways. And a lot of weapon DFs straight up TANK against plate.

I'd say the main drawback of partial armors is you can't wear armor accessory enhancives. Thankfully non-armor head worns are a dime a dozen - but sadly arm and leg ones not so much. But even so, what enhancives are going to do nearly as much for you as +9 TD (-9 extra CvA over hauberk), and the DFs of plate?

In the end, I'd say it comes down to whether or not you rely on ewave and or 117 when hunting, and how much you want that extra TD.

what about spiked armor? matter much for rogue? also do spikes prevent adding banshee flares? or script flares?

[Mobius1]

what about spiked armor? matter much for rogue? also do spikes prevent adding banshee flares? or script flares?

I'm pretty sure they don't prevent adding flares.

Spikes are super duper crazy underwhelming, to be honest, and in my personal case, is actually a bad thing 90% of the time for me. The only thing it really works with is sweep (this is also the case with partial armors. Spikes on MBP will work with sweep.), but who even uses sweep? The only time it ever came into play for me, was when I was sweeping a character, in which case it was a very BAD thing.

Unless you are using sweep in duels or something, or are for some reason using it against critters (why?), I don't see much point to it. I'd have removed it from my MBP set if I could have!

(Btw, I personally wear MBP, even well post cap. Thankfully a non-spiked set, hehe.)

[Derex]

I'm pretty sure they don't prevent adding flares.

Spikes are super duper crazy underwhelming, to be honest, and in my personal case, is actually a bad thing 90% of the time for me. The only thing it really works with is sweep (this is also the case with partial armors. Spikes on MBP will work with sweep.), but who even uses sweep? The only time it ever came into play for me, was when I was sweeping a character, in which case it was a very BAD thing.

Unless you are using sweep in duels or something, or are for some reason using it against critters (why?), I don't see much point to it. I'd have removed it from my MBP set if I could have!

(Btw, I personally wear MBP, even well post cap. Thankfully a non-spiked set, hehe.)

well guess i need to get some mbp i had ddp mbp but i was gonna just stay brig until full plate

[Mobius1]

well guess i need to get some mbp i had ddp mbp but i was gonna just stay brig until full plate

Damage padding is popular on plate, but I'm still a fan of crit padding. Crit padding will save you from deadly maneuver attacks - damage padding I might as well just use acantha leaf or symbol of restoration for essentially the same effect.

[Derex]

Damage padding is popular on plate, but I'm still a fan of crit padding. Crit padding will save you from deadly maneuver attacks - damage padding I might as well just use acantha leaf or symbol of restoration for essentially the same effect.

ya if mbp is same as chain coverage on head thats what i imagine dying from more than other crits anyways might just stick with hauberk since i already have a set if i cant find mbp

[Stumplicker]

Damage padding is popular on plate, but I'm still a fan of crit padding. Crit padding will save you from deadly maneuver attacks - damage padding I might as well just use acantha leaf or symbol of restoration for essentially the same effect.

It's 2019! Get both!

[Mobius1]

It's 2019! Get both!

I'd rather have more crit padding, even if it meant way less :P

[Derex]

I'd rather have more crit padding, even if it meant way less :P

Ended getting 5x swcp mbp figure I’ll be using it a few years screw it I’ll just pad it myself

[Gelston]

I'd rather have more crit padding, even if it meant way less :P

My plans are to HCP one, then HCP the other, then start working up one as high as possible.

[Mobius1]

I guess it comes down to how much you are willing to spend for what kind of benefit.

If you are going from full health to zero in plate, with no chance to escape it -using vanish, or moving to another room, or using symbol of restoration (which works when under all types of immobilization minus sleep.), then maybe it has some value to you. I guess certain critters do have the ability to stunlock you for some time.

Personally, I just find damage padding to be a waste of money. Especially with good redux.

Even crit padding would hardly be useful to me (in plate with good redux) if not for it often being the only way to decrease the damage/crits of certain spells and maneuvers.

But something to keep in mind, with crit padding, is that it essentially does nothing for you unless the attack would have given you a rank 2 or greater wound. It will do absolutely nothing if you are getting whapped by those pesky rank 1 crits.