My goodbye forever rant

[Tgo01]

First, I think Wyrom knows what he's talking about when he says what causes lag more than you do, don't you?

Not if he's blaming Dreavenings he does not. I was doing Dreavenings for years with zero complaints. No one who didn't attended Dreavenings even knew they were going on because they didn't suffer any noticeable lag.

Then one day the GMs gold a wild hair up their ass and decided I was contributing to the lag? I mean sure, I guess I can understand if I was contributing 2% to the lag and the other sources of lag contributed the other 98%. Otherwise I'm not buying it.

[HebrewToYou]

@Mobius1: Your position is entirely reasonable. With that said, I would ask that you consider separating the actions of the Officers and/or individual members from the MHO itself.

There are a lot of wonderful people in the group – officers included! – whose presence in Elanthia make the game more enjoyable for everyone. And I think there was some great feedback in this thread (or perhaps another?) that suggested HOA do more than just group hunting stuff. Definitely given me food for thought.

[Tgo01]

Tgo01: to be fair, I was gobsmacked to learn that high steel and low steel were made enchantable. Neither of those are on the material difficulty chart for enchanting from what I can see, and were previously unenchantable (at least I know high steel was). I had the same reaction as you quoted when that was made known to me.

I'm not saying you had malicious intent, but the quote is pretty damning. Questioning if they meant to make it enchantable and then wondering if they'll fix it sure sounds like the person is aware this is possibly a bug and decided not to alert the GMs to the possible bug.

If someone thought it might be a bug and asked the GMs if it was cool to enchant it or at least mentioned it to the GMs and they didn't say it was a bug or didn't address the issue at all then I think the person should be in the clear.

[drauz]

Honestly, I know you well enough to not even have hear you say this. It was my assumption from the beginning, and one reason I defended you on this from the very beginning.

I personally did not get involved in this just because I have a beef with HoA. Honestly, you know I don't like your MHO (I mean, I did get banned from your Discord, after all.), but that doesn't mean I have a quarrel with each individual member. I don't usually take forums and Discord chats personal, and I certainly don't take ire just because someone disagrees with me. It's why I'm not afraid to take your side on this (in regards to Nodyre specifically), regardless of my feelings toward your MHO.

I guess why I am saying in all this, is simply that my opinions on this matter are not clouded by any ill feelings toward your MHO, though great those ill feelings may be. I can only hope that HoA members look at their fellow members with the same unclouded eyes, including yourself.

I personally feel that enchanting Coraesine was an incredibly serious matter, and you won't hear me try to downplay it. I also feel that those who did so knowing it was wrong, got off with a very light punishment.

And frankly, to get onto some of the anti-HoA train a bit - This certainly seems to be a trend with your MHO, in its refusal to just admit when wrong, instead of bloody defending your position to the death even when you were in the wrong. Even I, though blunt and opinionated as I can be, always try to admit when I was wrong about something (Assassinate my character all you want, but I firmly stand by this statement.). But HoA is too elitest to admit being wrong.

This wasn't an MHO wide thing, its like 3 or 5 people in an MHO of 50+. You are painting the entire MHO from the actions of a few people(myself included).

The MHO doesn't owe you an explanation or an apology. For that matter neither do I or anyone else who got a warning. This literally doesn't affect you in the slightest.

This is simply a bad QC dept. We didn't do some glitch to make these items enchantable, we just prep/casted at the item.

I personally accept my warning and have moved on from it. There isn't anything good that will come from me arguing with staff about it, and for me I don't think its completely unwarranted.

[HebrewToYou]

No disagreement here, but I think one can certainly interpret that quote a couple different ways. I'm still not convinced it's the player's job to investigate and report bugs, but that's a ME problem. I think that Simutronics should incentivize bug-hunting/reporting with Simucoin rewards. That'd certainly put a nice spin on this rather disheartening turn of events.

[Gelston]

and for me I don't think its completely unwarranted.

And there it is.

[Methais]

Yep, there was a private Discord server, where Wyrom and Naos and Coase pulled everyone aside and said, "If you do this, we're going to give you warnings." And people said, "We're doing this! Let's schedule our warnings for 3 p.m. Friday." And then followed a flurry of cancellations and reschedulings, but it all came out right in the end.


In other words, don't be ridiculous. He knew he was getting a warning because other people had mentioned that they were getting warnings. I have seen three or four logs from Coase now, and he literally gave exactly the same spiel every time. He probably had it scripted.

Coase was probably afk scripting it. He should be reported.

[Fortybox]

This wasn't an MHO wide thing, its like 3 or 5 people in an MHO of 50+. You are painting the entire MHO from the actions of a few people(myself included).

The MHO doesn't owe you an explanation or an apology. For that matter neither do I or anyone else who got a warning. This literally doesn't affect you in the slightest.

This is simply a bad QC dept. We didn't do some glitch to make these items enchantable, we just prep/casted at the item.

I personally accept my warning and have moved on from it. There isn't anything good that will come from me arguing with staff about it, and for me I don't think its completely unwarranted.

You accept it because Simu was probably right. Should have been banned.

[Fortybox]

And there it is.

No doubt in my mind he knew what he was doing.

[Gelston]

If I were the guy in charge, I probably wouldn't have issued any warnings. No bans, none of that shit. I'd have rolled everything back. Essentially, you get the same results, but no people whining about warns they feel they don't deserve, and it would really just be less effort on my part. We wouldn't have this fun popcorn worthy thread either though, so there is that.

[Mobius1]

This wasn't an MHO wide thing, its like 3 or 5 people in an MHO of 50+. You are painting the entire MHO from the actions of a few people(myself included).

The MHO doesn't owe you an explanation or an apology. For that matter neither do I or anyone else who got a warning. This literally doesn't affect you in the slightest.

I was pretty clear that I wasn't painting a picture of the whole MHO based on those players' actions.

But I will say that every single person I have heard comment on the issue that is from HoA, has done absolutely nothing but defend their actions. Thus one reason why I made the comments that I did about HoA in my last post.

HoA also seems to vehemently defend their actions in Reim. It's like I'm listening to the PR campaign of a tobacco company through the last century.

But I do wholeheartedly admit that HoA has many great people. I am hopeful that said great people might realize what's happening with the MHO and do something about it.

[HebrewToYou]

Tobacco companies did nothing wrong. It's science.

[Neovik1]

If Simu was gonna go under for being shitty to customers, GS would have been dead like 15-20 years ago.

This is very true. The problem is that we have all invested a lot of time into our characters over the years and no one really wants to throw that away.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Ah man, I miss smoking.

[Gelston]

This is very true. The problem is that we have all invested a lot of time into our characters over the years and no one really wants to throw that away.

I'd say customer service at Simu is way better than it used to be. The GMs definitely don't treat everyone like a bunch of misbehaving kids and try to scold you anymore. Well, not as much.

[HebrewToYou]

I mean, when I started playing this game I was definitely a misbehaving kid. Oh, shit – I'm the problem, aren't I?

[Methais]

It's possible they have something. I reviewed all messages (and deleted messages) in the HOA Discord server, and there's nothing more incriminating than: "Did they mean to make this enchantable? Huh. I wonder if they'll fix it." To equate that response with "intentionally abusing a bug in collusion with other players for profit" is a pretty big leap. Players don't generally get punished for GMs forgetting to do something (like flag coraesine as unenchantable).


"Did they mean to make this enchantable? Huh. I wonder if they'll fix it."


"I wonder if they'll fix it."

Are you really not seeing the issue here? If you need more assistance with this, just let me know.

In regards to this whole situation, both Simu and HoA are retarded as fuck.

[drauz]

You accept it because Simu was probably right. Should have been banned.

Nope, wrong as usual.

[SonoftheNorth]

Did you guys say "oh shit coraesine is bugged and is enchantable quick don't tell anyone" on your private discord TELL THE TRUTH

[Mobius1]

Are you really not seeing the issue here? If you need more assistance with this, just let me know.


I need more assistance with this please.

[Methais]

https://i.imgur.com/Mu97d3v.jpg

:lol:

[Neovik1]

I'd say customer service at Simu is way better than it used to be. The GMs definitely don't treat everyone like a bunch of misbehaving kids and try to scold you anymore. Well, not as much.

I definitely like the GMs that are on staff and they have all done an amazing job. I definitely won't argue this. Just look at what Retser has been able to do in GS! He survived the player shop revamp and did an outstanding job with it. The staff has definitely accomplished more than I have ever seen accomplished in all the years I've played GS. Enchanting changes could have been done better though and there are a few other things that could have been tested better. But overall they have done great things!

[Mobius1]

On the bright side for you - When they are busy working on Simucoin events, at least they aren't doing more to ruin wizards.

[Methais]

Okay, I've been hesitant to post here since y'all are just super fucked up to one another, but I feel I should briefly address this topic.

My rogue, Nodyre, received a warning over enchanting a 90's era krodera sword. He is also a "Captain" in HoA, for the record. I got the same spiel from Coase in the consultation lounge that the others did. I was hyper-communicative with staff about this item, going so far as to ask Wyrom about it in the official discord. It's mechanically deficient (as others have noted in this thread) and I didn't even bother paying to have it enchanted beyond +32 (above the "normal" +25) in the months I had it. I don't use the sword except to wave it around due to the silly alteration it has. And there was no conspiracy to have this enchanted, either – it was discussed openly in-game in the remote locale of Gardenia Commons. Most notably, the item is just weird in general. It's blessable, unlike other "anti-magic" metals, which is why no wizard I hired ever thought twice about enchanting it.

Yet, despite all this, I received a warning for GMA. So I ask you to pause for a moment and reflect on this question: If Coase didn't hesitate to issue *me* a warning for something that was clearly above-board, why should he receive the benefit of the doubt when it comes to the warnings he issued to others?

Thank you for your time and attention.

We all think Simu sucks too.

Based on your story, you should have fallen into the “some players who legit didn’t know didn’t receive warnings” group.

Which those people probably don’t actually exist, because Simu lies a lot.

[Roblar]

Did you guys say "oh shit coraesine is bugged and is enchantable quick don't tell anyone" on your private discord TELL THE TRUTH


https://media.giphy.com/media/IgsXOXGPxfT3O/giphy.gif

[AnOrdim]

Did you guys say "oh shit coraesine is bugged and is enchantable quick don't tell anyone" on your private discord TELL THE TRUTH

It's not like that information was spread anywhere else, thus they kept it to themselves and "on the down-low" as the kids like to say.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

How much coraesine is out there, anyway? 10 items? 20 items? I know I owned two short swords, back in the day and they were uber rare.

[Whirlin]

How much coraesine is out there, anyway? 10 items? 20 items? I know I owned two short swords, back in the day and they were uber rare.
I may be wrong, but I was just reading some history in the official discord server, and it appears more isolated. There appear to be 4 types of coraesine weapons out there.
Those that are fully functional with the binding mechanic,
Coraesine in name and offer no mechanical benefits
Lesser coraesine that have some air flares
Some new mood based Coraesine with scripts and ambients

It was my understanding from what I read that the ones that offered no material-based bonuses were the ones that were further enchanted. But I'm sure others may know better. Apparently it's not just a cut and dry Coraesine issue.

[Gelston]

How much coraesine is out there, anyway? 10 items? 20 items? I know I owned two short swords, back in the day and they were uber rare.

Depends, they were selling coraesine for BS at DR. I don't know if anyone was tracking numbers.

[drauz]

I may be wrong, but I was just reading some history in the official discord server, and it appears more isolated. There appear to be 4 types of coraesine weapons out there.
Those that are fully functional with the binding mechanic,
Coraesine in name and offer no mechanical benefits
Lesser coraesine that have some air flares
Some new mood based Coraesine with scripts and ambients

It was my understanding from what I read that the ones that offered no material-based bonuses were the ones that were further enchanted. But I'm sure others may know better. Apparently it's not just a cut and dry Coraesine issue.

It wasn't coraesine that was bugged, ALL material difficulty was 0 basically. You could enchant any metal, zelnorn, coraesine, kroderine, etc.

[Whirlin]

It wasn't coraesine that was bugged, ALL material difficulty was 0 basically. You could enchant any metal, zelnorn, coraesine, kroderine, etc.
It sounded like instances of omissions in the materials difficulty table, and the lack of an error routine to apply 999 for those instances.
I wasn't aware it was ALL materials. Jesus.

[Mobius1]

It sounded like instances of omissions in the materials difficulty table, and the lack of an error routine to apply 999 for those instances.
I wasn't aware it was ALL materials. Jesus.

And they knew this. And clearly the GMs did not intend for ALL materials to suddenly be enchantable, and thus the "How were we supposed to know?" argument doesn't apply here.

[Fortybox]

[/b][/size]
In regards to this whole situation, both Simu and HoA are retarded as fuck.

Pretty much this. If the retardation was widespread, more people besides HoA would have been warned.

[drauz]

And they knew this. And clearly the GMs did not intend for ALL materials to suddenly be enchantable, and thus the "How were we supposed to know?" argument doesn't apply here.

I only enchanted coraesine, I didn't learn about the other metals until Coase posted the announcement.

[Fortybox]

I only enchanted coraesine, I didn't learn about the other metals until Coase posted the announcement.

“Learn” is a subjective word for you amirites?

[Whirlin]

And they knew this. And clearly the GMs did not intend for ALL materials to suddenly be enchantable, and thus the "How were we supposed to know?" argument doesn't apply here.

I guess so, but it just sounds so incomplete. Material difficulty is a major aspect of enchanting. I can't imagine someone telling folks to go and experiment when an entire variable is missing. Also, I was under the impression that they were monitoring things after go live. Waiting this long and then issuing warnings seems eggregious. If I was monitoring logs and saw one instance of an impossible material being enchanted, I'd either issue a statement, or put a freeze til it could be fixed. And if I failed to notice something, that's not their fault for experimenting, that's my fault for not monitoring what I had just implemented.

[Drew]

Holy shit the most embarrassing part about this isn't the SIMU response. I've pretty much come to expect that. It's the boot lickers here who say you "should have known". Imagine having such a strong case of Stockholm Syndrome that you blame the players for bad coding. If this Fortybox guy isn't a GM undercover posting I really worry for his mental health.

[Gelston]

Holy shit the most embarrassing part about this isn't the SIMU response. I've pretty much come to expect that. It's the boot lickers here who say you "should have known". Imagine having such a strong case of Stockholm Syndrome that you blame the players for bad coding. If this Fortybox guy isn't a GM undercover posting I really worry for his mental health.

No, I really think any enchanting wizard that has been playing the game for decades probably should have known. Then again, they probably should have known that all the shit is tracked too so you can't really get away with it. Or maybe they were just retarded.

[Drew]

Someone post a thread about rape and see if Fortybox replies asking what the victim was wearing.

[Neovik1]

Holy shit the most embarrassing part about this isn't the SIMU response. I've pretty much come to expect that. It's the boot lickers here who say you "should have known". Imagine having such a strong case of Stockholm Syndrome that you blame the players for bad coding. If this Fortybox guy isn't a GM undercover posting I really worry for his mental health.

Fortybox just doesn't like us so he lets hate cloud his judgement. There is nothing we can say that will change that so there isn't much of a point in responding to him. Fortybox is just an example of how toxic this community is on here and why newcomers to GS should never come to player's corner.

[Neovik1]

No, I really think any enchanting wizard that has been playing the game for decades probably should have known. Then again, they probably should have known that all the shit is tracked too so you can't really get away with it. Or maybe they were just retarded.

I've been a capped Rogue for awhile. I just recently capped my wizard and started enchanting fairly recently. I didn't keep up with the changes completely. But all I read when the new system was released was that there are a lot of things that are now enchantable that weren't in the past. So I wouldn't of known. I actually picked up a nervestaff thinking I could enchant it now. But not really sure where that will fall once everything is finalized... even though I mean you would hope that everything is production is currently finalized. But hey I wouldn't know... not like there are official release notes and who knows when they actually release something? I mean it seems like things can be ninja'ed into production whenever.

[Mobius1]

I guess so, but it just sounds so incomplete. Material difficulty is a major aspect of enchanting. I can't imagine someone telling folks to go and experiment when an entire variable is missing. Also, I was under the impression that they were monitoring things after go live. Waiting this long and then issuing warnings seems eggregious. If I was monitoring logs and saw one instance of an impossible material being enchanted, I'd either issue a statement, or put a freeze til it could be fixed. And if I failed to notice something, that's not their fault for experimenting, that's my fault for not monitoring what I had just implemented.

Well, I don't want to rehash what has been restated several times in this discussion, but in the scenario you mentioned, you would not have been warned (Or at least SHOULD not have been warned based on the GM's parameters.).

[Drew]

No, I really think any enchanting wizard that has been playing the game for decades probably should have known. Then again, they probably should have known that all the shit is tracked too so you can't really get away with it. Or maybe they were just retarded.

Didn't they just make a big enchanting that changed the properties on enchanting? Are players supposed to somehow divine design intent? Did the GMs release a list of materials that remain unechantable and was coreasine on that list? How should they have known? I'm certainly underinformed but I do know that game devs blaming players for bad QC is always a bad look. If I started playing again tomorrow and enchanted my coreasine weapon would it be my fault for not knowing?

[Drew]

Also anyone saying players shouldn't have enchanted things GMs didn't intend to be enchanted when they made them should ask for 90% of all 10x DB items to be removed from the game.

[Mobius1]

Fortybox just doesn't like us so he lets hate cloud his judgement. There is nothing we can say that will change that so there isn't much of a point in responding to him. Fortybox is just an example of how toxic this community is on here and why newcomers to GS should never come to player's corner.

I'll take a toxic community over the alternatives. I for one love PC for what it does for GS.


Also anyone saying players shouldn't have enchanted things GMs didn't intend to be enchanted when they made them should ask for 90% of all 10x DB items to be removed from the game.

I've been saying this for years, actually.

[Gelston]

Didn't they just make a big enchanting that changed the properties on enchanting? Are players supposed to somehow divine design intent? Did the GMs release a list of materials that remain unechantable and was coreasine on that list? How should they have known? I'm certainly underinformed but I do know that game devs blaming players for bad QC is always a bad look. If I started playing again tomorrow and enchanted my coreasine weapon would it be my fault for not knowing?

They allowed things that previously were unenchantable due to flares to be enchanted. Not new base materials. It was pretty clear to me. I also know of people who reported this bug weeks and months ago, so I'm definitely not the only one that knew this was a bug. You even had a guy that got warned here saying it wasn't unwarranted in his case.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Holy shit the most embarrassing part about this isn't the SIMU response. I've pretty much come to expect that. It's the boot lickers here who say you "should have known". Imagine having such a strong case of Stockholm Syndrome that you blame the players for bad coding. If this Fortybox guy isn't a GM undercover posting I really worry for his mental health.

good to see drew still around �� always liked you bud

[Drew]

good to see drew still around �� always liked you bud

Thanks! I heard they're finally fixing weapon loss too, I might start playing again, trying to convince Dantastikal to finally get to level 100 with me (20 years to cap, don't @ me)

[Tgo01]

Didn't they just make a big enchanting that changed the properties on enchanting? Are players supposed to somehow divine design intent? Did the GMs release a list of materials that remain unechantable and was coreasine on that list? How should they have known? I'm certainly underinformed but I do know that game devs blaming players for bad QC is always a bad look. If I started playing again tomorrow and enchanted my coreasine weapon would it be my fault for not knowing?

From what I understand they allowed flares and the like to be enchantable, metals that resist magic or whatever still can't be enchanted.

The GMs are also claiming they have evidence that some people knew it was a bug, tried to keep it a secret, and actively exploited the bug before it could be fixed.

No one has admitted to this yet, obviously, but of the people so far who have admitted they received a warning I have no reason to not believe them. I'm wondering if the GMs are exaggerating their evidence or if there were people who were churning out dozens of these enchants before the bug could be fixed and some people got caught up in the warnings even though they weren't abusing the bug.

[Gelston]

Thanks! I heard they're finally fixing weapon loss too, I might start playing again, trying to convince Dantastikal to finally get to level 100 with me (20 years to cap, don't @ me)

Already fixed. You can't lose a weapon now unless you fail to use my or just drop it for no reason.

[Tgo01]

Thanks! I heard they're finally fixing weapon loss too

You can no longer lose your weapon but as soon as it drops to the ground via a disarm mechanic it can be a pain in the ass to get it back. Bonded weapons are unaffected though.

[Whirlin]

They allowed things that previously were unenchantable due to flares to be enchanted. Not new base materials. It was pretty clear to me. I also know of people who reported this bug weeks and months ago, so I'm definitely not the only one that knew this was a bug. You even had a guy that got warned here saying it wasn't unwarranted in his case.

What about drakar, rhimar, and other materials that have flares and are also material bases?

[Gelston]

What about drakar, rhimar, and other materials that have flares and are also material bases?

Those were only unenchantable due to their flares. They are all listed on the chart as -50 difficulty, so it was never the material that prevented it from being enchanted.

The only things ever marked as impossible, never meant to be enchanted are coraesine, krodera, kroderine, urglaes, urnon, and zelnorn.

[Drew]

Those were only unenchantable due to their flares. They are all listed on the chart as -50 difficulty, so it was never the material that prevented it from being blessed.


Corsaesine is a flare type. Seems like it should be enchantable if flares is what was preventing it from being enchanted before. At least if you told me they had changed it for that reason I'd have no reason not to believe you.

[Gelston]

Corsaesine is a flare type. Seems like it should be enchantable if flares is what was preventing it from being enchanted before. At least if you told me they had changed it for that reason I'd have no reason not to believe you.

Coraesine is a lot more than a simple elemental flare, and again, it was marked as a -999.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Coraesine is a lot more than a simple elemental flare, and again, it was marked as a -999.

On the not 100% staff updated wiki...

[Gelston]

On the not 100% staff updated wiki...

The table didn't need updated. It didn't change.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

The table didn't need updated. It didn't change.

Doesn’t change the FACT it not a SIMU document.

[Ewayn]

The table didn't need updated. It didn't change.

So much stuff on the wiki is wrong though. You can't take the wiki as an official Simu document that you can rely on.

[Gelston]

So much stuff on the wiki is wrong though. You can't take the wiki as an official Simu document that you can rely on.

What items, specifically?


Doesn’t change the FACT it not a SIMU document.

It is THE official GS wiki. IF the list was wrong or something changed, it would be changed.

[HebrewToYou]

High Steel and Low Steel are not on that chart, Gelston. They were previously not enchantable. Now they are. Is that allowed or not? How would a player know?

[Gelston]

High Steel and Low Steel are not on that chart, Gelston. They were previously not enchantable. Now they are. Is that allowed or not? How would a player know?

High and Low steel are brand new materials. I give you they are not on the chart, but their numbers probably weren't released. Low steel, at least, was held back by flares because there wasn't exactly a pretemper for psychic flares.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

It is THE official GS wiki. IF the list was wrong or something changed, it would be changed.
By who?

[Gelston]

By who?

I see you just want to run in circles. Have fun with that. Point stands, and it has been stated about those materials marked as -999 specifically.

[Parkbandit]

First, I think Wyrom knows what he's talking about when he says what causes lag more than you do, don't you? Second, HoA has worked with GMs to provide data, changed nights, split groups, and made a variety of other modifications to help mitigate lag. What you really mean is that you like what Dreaven does, so it's cool, but you don't like HoA or Reim, so it's not -- isn't that what you're getting at?

You don't think Wyrom had an ulterior motive to get Dreaven to stop spelling people up.. and just used lag as a bullshit excuse?

Stop.

You might be the only one here that actually believes that.

[HebrewToYou]

I'm not trying to be difficult, mind you. I'm just illustrating that our *official* documentation is clearly incomplete.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I see you just want to run in circles. Have fun with that. Point stands, and it has been stated about those materials marked as -999 specifically.

Nope. I just believe if SIMU wants a fucking Wiki where anyone can edit it, to expect fucked up results. Own their mistakes, or accept they suck at QC and documentation. There is nothing in between when the ‘official’ wiki is based on player input. They have put the onus on the paying players to police documentation, and that’s retarded

[Gelston]

Nope. I just believe if SIMU wants a fucking Wiki where anyone can edit it, to expect fucked up results. Own their mistakes, or accept they suck at QC and documentation. There is nothing an in between when the ‘official’ wiki is based on player input. They have put the onus on the paying players on o police documentation, and that’s retarded

oh ok

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

oh ok

ill take your capitulation as I’ve won.

[Parkbandit]

Fortybox just doesn't like us so he lets hate cloud his judgement. There is nothing we can say that will change that so there isn't much of a point in responding to him. Fortybox is just an example of how toxic this community is on here and why newcomers to GS should never come to player's corner.

No one is forcing you to stay here. Feel free to remove the site from your favorites.

It's only toxic because you don't agree with him.

Cry less.

[Gelston]

ill take your capitulation as I’ve won.

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sjbhill3/Webpage/images/Pics/retards/Winning%20Spaz.jpg

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sjbhill3/Webpage/images/Pics/retards/Winning%20Spaz.jpg

Lol.

[drauz]

They allowed things that previously were unenchantable due to flares to be enchanted. Not new base materials. It was pretty clear to me. I also know of people who reported this bug weeks and months ago, so I'm definitely not the only one that knew this was a bug. You even had a guy that got warned here saying it wasn't unwarranted in his case.

Except for high and low steel....

I also said it wasn't completely unwarranted.

[drauz]

No one is forcing you to stay here. Feel free to remove the site from your favorites.

It's only toxic because you don't agree with him.

Cry less.

No, he's toxic because he's a piece of shit person. To his core.

He probably sits in his mothers basement jerking it with his own tears, mad and confused why no one likes him.

[Gelston]

Except for high and low steel....

I also said it wasn't completely unwarranted.

Low steel wasn't on there due to it being a new metal. Someone has already asked for the GMs to include it on the list. Low steel, however, would have been a nogo under the old (new) system due to flares requiring pretempers and shit tons of lore training to apply them. There was no "psychic flares" lore and there was no psychic flares pretemper. Flares are literally what held that back. Now, with the new (new) system you don't need to do a pretemper for flares.

[Parkbandit]

No, he's toxic because he's a piece of shit person. To his core.

He probably sits in his mothers basement jerking it with his own tears, mad and confused why no one likes him.

I disagree with his assumptions in this thread... probably because I don't have a pony in this race.

I don't think he's toxic.

[Fortybox]

Holy shit the most embarrassing part about this isn't the SIMU response. I've pretty much come to expect that. It's the boot lickers here who say you "should have known". Imagine having such a strong case of Stockholm Syndrome that you blame the players for bad coding. If this Fortybox guy isn't a GM undercover posting I really worry for his mental health.

Again, the coding issue from Simu isn’t the issue.

Simu alleges that those warned knew about bug, failed to report it and exploited it. You’d know this if you read the thread.

[Taernath]

Where did Wyrom said to BUG the krodera sword, Taernath? I just looked again and couldn't find it. If you look in the #mechanics thread on the official Discord, the sword was discussed on March 14th with most everyone being entirely unclear about exactly what krodera is all about. Wyrom's only reply that I can see is that it's "veil iron-esque" (in the #gm-questions thread) – and my experience with veil iron is that it is found at enchantments above +25 in the treasure system and can even be sanctified and flared.

Wyrom talking about bugging something was in response to an issue with coraesine. When asked about bugs that tends to be his go-to answer, which makes sense as he's the PM, and not the guy who implemented new 925.

Your thing with the krodera wasn't about the enchanting bug though. You just asked a general question about its properties, not if it was able/allowed to be enchanted. The search function over there is terrible so I may have missed something, but the timeline of events seems to have you being "hyper-communicative" only AFTER the bug was noticed and investigated. I'm not accusing you of anything, you may have just been collateral damage, but it feels like people are trying to misrepresent how much they knew and when they knew it.

[drauz]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/466597338626916354/618932882936954890/hoa_truth.gif?width=360&height=203

[Fortybox]

Fortybox just doesn't like us so he lets hate cloud his judgement. There is nothing we can say that will change that so there isn't much of a point in responding to him. Fortybox is just an example of how toxic this community is on here and why newcomers to GS should never come to player's corner.

What’s toxic is HoA exploiting a bug for benefit and then getting a slap on the wrist. Sorry you’re mad that someone is calling you out on your BS.

[Whirlin]

Low steel wasn't on there due to it being a new metal. Someone has already asked for the GMs to include it on the list. Low steel, however, would have been a nogo under the old (new) system due to flares requiring pretempers and shit tons of lore training to apply them. There was no "psychic flares" lore and there was no psychic flares pretemper. Flares are literally what held that back. Now, with the new (new) system you don't need to do a pretemper for flares.
But, if the new material was included, doesn't that imply that material difficulties existed, or were at least identified as not existing by nature of making changes to the area?

And you also come across like a GM with you're reference of -50 difficulty on drakar/etc... We literally barely had grasp of the enchanting equation, let alone to the point of being able to measure it, and especially for a material we couldn't get a difficulty read on because of flare enchanting restriction. It's a lot of stock in -50 being accurate.

I dunno, two enchanting systems, super in-flight development, lots of shit up in the air, bugs being reported privately with 1000 ways to try to listen and react to... There's plausable deniability in not knowing. I agree they should have bugged the item/etc, but simu also shouldn't have released the broken new spell, or been faster to identify/react. There's crap happening on both sides, it definitely warrants a slap on the wrist, maybe probation or lack of enchanting energy, but probably not an official warning.

[Fortybox]

From what I understand they allowed flares and the like to be enchantable, metals that resist magic or whatever still can't be enchanted.

The GMs are also claiming they have evidence that some people knew it was a bug, tried to keep it a secret, and actively exploited the bug before it could be fixed.

No one has admitted to this yet, obviously, but of the people so far who have admitted they received a warning I have no reason to not believe them. I'm wondering if the GMs are exaggerating their evidence or if there were people who were churning out dozens of these enchants before the bug could be fixed and some people got caught up in the warnings even though they weren't abusing the bug.

Nobody except Nodyre has given a reasonable response. Simu is retarded but do you really think they would go to this length if they didn’t have evidence? We’re talking about an organization that gives them $$$.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

What’s toxic is HoA exploiting a bug for benefit and then getting a slap on the wrist. Sorry you’re mad that someone is calling you out on your BS.

Seriously, who cares what other people do? I get this all the time about ‘I’m not paid enough, so and so gets paid more’ I hear people are pussy faggots. Give me a reason to pay you more, not why another is paid more. Be better.

[Whirlin]

Fortybox: Wyrom is a lying sack of shit trying to ruin this game and is the worst person ever.
Also Fortybox: Wyrom says he has documentation which he hasn't provided, he's not lying to us!!! Wake up people

* Or simu instead of wyrom

[HebrewToYou]

Wyrom talking about bugging something was in response to an issue with coraesine. When asked about bugs that tends to be his go-to answer, which makes sense as he's the PM, and not the guy who implemented new 925.

Your thing with the krodera wasn't about the enchanting bug though. You just asked a general question about its properties, not if it was able/allowed to be enchanted. The search function over there is terrible so I may have missed something, but the timeline of events seems to have you being "hyper-communicative" only AFTER the bug was noticed and investigated. I'm not accusing you of anything, you may have just been collateral damage, but it feels like people are trying to misrepresent how much they knew and when they knew it.

No accusation read into that and it's a fair point. I didn't ask if it was enchantable in that discussion as I was already told by the owner of said sword that it was enchantable under the OLD system. I was trying to figure out what, if anything, was implemented for krodera. I'm certainly willing to own up to assuming more than I probably should have about the weapon, but in no way was I aware of a bug or trying to exploit the item for mechanical gain. As soon as I was made aware of what the staff considered a bug, I immediately brought the weapon to their attention. No misrepresentation intended – I try to keep everything I do in-game on the up-and-up.

[Gelston]

Fortybox: Wyrom is a lying sack of shit trying to ruin this game and is the worst person ever.
Also Fortybox: Wyrom says he has documentation which he hasn't provided, he's not lying to us!!! Wake up people

See, I think both sides fucked up. I find it hard to believe not a single one of them didn't know something was wrong. In that case, you just don't fucking do it and ask for clarification. You can go on the discord server and ask, email, post in the forums, spam report, or run .breakgs and ask when you get pulled. I think Simu was off on their response to it though. Like I said, they've known, via reports, for months that this was an issue and they waited until recently to address it. Probably didn't want to let people know a bug exists? That is still a stupid way to do business IMO. You tell the people "Hey, this is a bug. rolling back everyone's shit to previous state. It isn't fixed, but x, x, x, x materials aren't supposed to be enchanted. If you do enchant it you will get a warn or a ban." and just leave it at that.

In the end, it is still only a warn. It means jack all and go a year without another it means even less.

[Tgo01]

Nobody except Nodyre has given a reasonable response. Simu is retarded but do you really think they would go to this length if they didn’t have evidence? We’re talking about an organization that gives them $$$.

I do think there were probably some people who were aware this was a bug and was taking advantage of it before it was fixed. Briarfox's quote of someone shows at least one person thought it was a bug.

I have no reason to doubt drauz when he says he only enchanted two things, and enchanting two things doesn't really prove to me that he was taking advantage of it as much as possible before the GMs fixed it.

There are probably some people who were taking advantage of this bug but I doubt they are going to admit to it.

[Whirlin]

In the end, it is still only a warn. It means jack all and go a year without another it means even less.

That's fair. Perhaps we should have started with that. Is it a matter of 1 year and it's wiped? I was expecting that, but second guessed when one of the posters put that it was his second offense, they seemed to perpetuate longer.

[Gelston]

That's fair. Perhaps we should have started with that. Is it a matter of 1 year and it's wiped? I was expecting that, but second guessed when one of the posters put that it was his second offense, they seemed to perpetuate longer.

It is never wiped, it just counts for less with age.

[Whirlin]

It is never wiped, it just counts for less with age.

I dunno, this is kind of a nuanced situation, I wouldn't trust simu's notes on the manner if you got pulled for your third warning and they just decide to ban you.

[Gelston]

I dunno, this is kind of a nuanced situation, I wouldn't trust simu's notes on the manner if you got pulled for your third warning and they just decide to ban you.

Eh, the first thing you see is the age of the violation. If you have like, a history of GMA over 20 years with the warnings all spread apart, they probably would do more, but one here, and another warning for something else like 2 years later, and then something another 6 years... They aren't going to really do anything. Bans have to be done by a SGM too, so it isn't like some rando GM can just zomg you go away now!

[Taernath]

I dunno, this is kind of a nuanced situation, I wouldn't trust simu's notes on the manner if you got pulled for your third warning and they just decide to ban you.

I think we are long past the three strikes you're out era.

[Neovik1]

No one is forcing you to stay here. Feel free to remove the site from your favorites.

It's only toxic because you don't agree with him.

Cry less.

If we get new players i’d Imagine once they research Gemstone this forum would come up and more than likely people have said fuck this shit and didn’t even bother with GS. I can give two shits if I agree or disagree with him and I can handle myself. I’m just stating this is not a good site to promote our community in any positive light. Most of the people on here aren’t even active players.

[Fortybox]

I do think there were probably some people who were aware this was a bug and was taking advantage of it before it was fixed. Briarfox's quote of someone shows at least one person thought it was a bug.

I have no reason to doubt drauz when he says he only enchanted two things, and enchanting two things doesn't really prove to me that he was taking advantage of it as much as possible before the GMs fixed it.

There are probably some people who were taking advantage of this bug but I doubt they are going to admit to it.

It depends. If he was told by someone else that Simu made a mistake and then did it then he is complicit. That’s probably what occurred.

[Fortybox]

I do think there were probably some people who were aware this was a bug and was taking advantage of it before it was fixed. Briarfox's quote of someone shows at least one person thought it was a bug.

I have no reason to doubt drauz when he says he only enchanted two things, and enchanting two things doesn't really prove to me that he was taking advantage of it as much as possible before the GMs fixed it.

There are probably some people who were taking advantage of this bug but I doubt they are going to admit to it.

It depends. If he was told by someone else that Simu made a mistake and then did it then he is complicit. That’s probably what occurred.

[Fortybox]

If we get new players i’d Imagine once they research Gemstone this forum would come up and more than likely people have said fuck this shit and didn’t even bother with GS. I can give two shits if I agree or disagree with him and I can handle myself. I’m just stating this is not a good site to promote our community in any positive light. Most of the people on here aren’t even active players.

Wrong. New players will come over and realize the community has a bunch of cheaters. You and your org is the cancer.

[Donquix]

Coraesine is a lot more than a simple elemental flare, and again, it was marked as a -999.

You keep clinging to this as if it means something. It's been pointed out repeatedly that -999 means fuckall by itself, especially with a system that is in the process of changing.

"it didn't need to change" - no one from simu updated the wiki for the things that a million percent did change either. So how are you supposed to know what did and didn't? If a PLAYER with no real knowledge into the system cuts and pastes the table to the new 925 entry that doesn't mean nothing changed with material difficulties. It means someone assumed they didn't and cut and pasted it. Because again, simu doesn't update their own fucking documentation.

and for the third time, wtf does -999 even mean for the average person checking the wiki? it means literally nothing. It's an arbitrary number. It might mean impossible, it might mean that's just as hard as material difficulties will get, it might mean some gm that made coraesine 30 years ago mashed his fucking face on the keyboard. I doubt anyone, even very probably people who intentionally "exploited" this (which again, is using a spell exactly as its intended and the spell working. HAX) know what their enchanting skill GETS to off hand. -999 probably means impossible if your skill caps out at 500, but if your skill caps out at 1200 that just means it's pretty hard.

"can i enchant this? oh it works. oh man the wiki says -999, well i'm capped with basically every magical skill maxed so i guess that means i can enchant -999 shit. cool."

at release Naos:
Didn't update any documentation.
Refused to answer practically any meaningful questions about the system and difficulty changes.
ignored or deflected players who did bring concerns about item difficulties for days post release until the hilariously out of whack ones were brought up, and then it was Estild who had to confirm those
was a shithead whenever people tried to ask about when the potion vendor would be done (that continues to this day)

GEE I DON"T KNOW WHY players wouldn't rush off to talk to them about this stuff.

Use the god damn test realm for testing. Offer REAL rewards for reporting serious defects, not 100 exp maybe if they feel like it. Simu QC has been ATROCIOUS since the simucoin grind started. I reported half a dozen obvious typos on items during rumor woods, not weird syntax / phrasing like just straight up typos. Outsource that shit, put a carrot on the stick. Instead of ROYALLY fucking up and then trying to make yourself feel like less of a piece of a shit by being punitive to the players that found the GLARING omission you made.

[Donquix]

Wrong. New players will come over and realize the community has a bunch of cheaters. You and your org is the cancer.

You really need to bring this up with state appointed psychiatrist I assume you're required to meet with. They need to know you're 1 bad day from getting up on a clocktower because someone someone made your mud lag for half an hour and you died that one time or whatever the fuck started this obsession for you.

[Gelston]

You keep clinging to this as if it means something. It's been pointed out repeatedly that -999 means fuckall by itself, especially with a system that is in the process of changing.

"it didn't need to change" - no one from simu updated the wiki for the things that a million percent did change either. So how are you supposed to know what did and didn't? If a PLAYER with no real knowledge into the system cuts and pastes the table to the new 925 entry that doesn't mean nothing changed with material difficulties. It means someone assumed they didn't and cut and pasted it. Because again, simu doesn't update their own fucking documentation.

and for the third time, wtf does -999 even mean for the average person checking the wiki? it means literally nothing. It's an arbitrary number. It might mean impossible, it might mean that's just as hard as material difficulties will get, it might mean some gm that made coraesine 30 years ago mashed his fucking face on the keyboard. I doubt anyone, even very probably people who intentionally "exploited" this (which again, is using a spell exactly as its intended and the spell working. HAX) know what their enchanting skill GETS to off hand. -999 probably means impossible if your skill caps out at 500, but if your skill caps out at 1200 that just means it's pretty hard.

"can i enchant this? oh it works. oh man the wiki says -999, well i'm capped with basically every magical skill maxed so i guess that means i can enchant -999 shit. cool."

at release Naos:
Didn't update any documentation.
Refused to answer practically any meaningful questions about the system and difficulty changes.
ignored or deflected players who did bring concerns about item difficulties for days post release until the hilariously out of whack ones were brought up, and then it was Estild who had to confirm those
was a shithead whenever people tried to ask about when the potion vendor would be done (that continues to this day)

GEE I DON"T KNOW WHY players wouldn't rush off to talk to them about this stuff.

Use the god damn test realm for testing. Offer REAL rewards for reporting serious defects, not 100 exp maybe if they feel like it. Simu QC has been ATROCIOUS since the simucoin grind started. I reported half a dozen obvious typos on items during rumor woods, not weird syntax / phrasing like just straight up typos. Outsource that shit, put a carrot on the stick. Instead of ROYALLY fucking up and then trying to make yourself feel like less of a piece of a shit by being punitive to the players that found the GLARING omission you made.

They have straight up said anything marked -999 is never meant to be enchanted. This was fairly recently too. It was also recently just proven again by the recent actions. Stop acting like it isn't a thing. It is.

[Fortybox]

You really need to bring this up with state appointed psychiatrist I assume you're required to meet with. They need to know you're 1 bad day from getting up on a clocktower because someone someone made your mud lag for half an hour and you died that one time or whatever the fuck started this obsession for you.

:lol:

[Donquix]

They have straight up said anything marked -999 is never meant to be enchanted. This was fairly recently too. It was also recently just proven again by the recent actions. Stop acting like it isn't a thing. It is.

They sure did, three times in fact. Once, however, was AFTER these things were enchanted (probably). All 3 of these were on a weekday at around 1:30 pm on discord and fucking no where else. In the #mechanics channel that is probably the most most spammy channel on the server. The first was before new-enchant (feb with the limitbreaker potions) so that only gets half credit.

Yeah that seems practical. Check the wiki it's authoritative....ANNNNND also discord on Estild's lunch breaks during the week.

[Taernath]

They sure did, three times in fact. Once, however, was AFTER these things were enchanted (probably). All 3 of these were on a weekday at around 1:30 pm on discord and fucking no where else. In the #mechanics channel that is probably the most most spammy channel on the server. The first was before new-enchant (feb with the limitbreaker potions) so that only gets half credit.

Yeah that seems practical. Check the wiki it's authoritative....ANNNNND also discord on Estild's lunch breaks during the week.

So the GMs have said '-999 is supposed to be impossible to enchant', the wiki says '-999 is supposed to be impossible to enchant', and you're still saying the wiki is wrong?

[Parkbandit]

If we get new players i’d Imagine once they research Gemstone this forum would come up and more than likely people have said fuck this shit and didn’t even bother with GS. I can give two shits if I agree or disagree with him and I can handle myself. I’m just stating this is not a good site to promote our community in any positive light. Most of the people on here aren’t even active players.

This forum is and never was a place where it was promoting Gemstone. It's literally a community of people who have played/still play the game. Nothing more. It came to be a place where we could post whatever we wanted because the officials were stifling and over-moderated.

If you believe this is a bad place to be.. feel free to create your own forum where your ideas for world harmony and peace will be more appreciated.

Until then, if you don't like this forum because it doesn't meet your ideals.. feel free to fuck off.

[Donquix]

So the GMs have said '-999 is supposed to be impossible to enchant', the wiki says '-999 is supposed to be impossible to enchant', and you're still saying the wiki is wrong?

Please, link us that bit of info on the wiki. I'll wait.

[Taernath]

Please, link us that bit of info on the wiki. I'll wait.

If A = B and B = C, does A = C? This isn't a difficult concept. At least, I hope it isn't.

[Risen]

Please, link us that bit of info on the wiki. I'll wait.

see: Materials Difficulties (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Old%20Forum%20Topics%20%5BRead%20Only%5D/Enchanting/view/917)

see: Naos on difficult or impossible (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Professions/Wizard/view/1134)

There is also a post on 'metal' at -500 and Estild suggesting the assist. And posts with proof that a reading of -500 is player enchantable. Up to about 4x.

The officials remain the 'proof' of what was said. This has not changed and is the reason why posts are saved to the wiki for easier reference supporting a wiki article. These posts align to the information on the wiki, but were not linked by anyone editing the wiki. So no, you won't find it on the wiki as a sole resource. The wiki should have linked the posts.

Not arguing for or against anything in this discussion. Just representing some facts.

[Ragz]

That works. Warning validated. Anyone mind cross posting to wiki?

[Neveragain]

You really need to bring this up with state appointed psychiatrist I assume you're required to meet with. They need to know you're 1 bad day from getting up on a clocktower because someone someone made your mud lag for half an hour and you died that one time or whatever the fuck started this obsession for you.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpjpXMFPshSYGLm/source.gif

Sure, just ignore the fact that half the HOA membership is mentally unstable. I can literally go through that membership list and give testimony to those members being involved in unscrupulous behavior. From the female cleric that spends her days reporting names she doesn't like to the other female cleric that used her position as a police dispatcher to gain access to peoples personal information.

Before we worry about the guy climbing the clock tower, perhaps we should worry about the HoA members shoving daggers in everyones backs.

[Fortybox]

https://media2.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpjpXMFPshSYGLm/source.gif

Sure, just ignore the fact that half the HOA membership is mentally unstable. I can literally go through that membership list and give testimony to those members being involved in unscrupulous behavior. From the female cleric that spends her days reporting names she doesn't like to the other female cleric that used her position as a police dispatcher to gain access to peoples personal information.

Before we worry about the guy climbing the clock tower, perhaps we should worry about the HoA members shoving daggers in everyones backs.

Funny how these warnings seem to cluster with this MHO.

https://media.giphy.com/media/131OcbnjKouNtC/giphy.gif

[Neveragain]

Funny how these warnings seem to cluster with this MHO.

https://media.giphy.com/media/131OcbnjKouNtC/giphy.gif

The funny one is the "you people are boot lickers". Coming from a group that uses GM's as their own personal revenge force.

[Realk]

Tysong is probably the only one that in my opinion has a soul in that group..but I may be wrong

[Fortybox]

Here is what I think happened. One of these morons figured out that you could enchant these metals. They then broadcasted it to their buddy network and NOBODY bothered to question or ask why.

Being such an elite squad of good upstanding members of the community with YEARS (decades) of playing this game and interacting with Simu staff, they did nothing. Instead, they saw a loophole and started enchanting for personal gain.

HoA is a corrupt org. Simu should have disbanded the MHO IMO. If anything, current leadership should step down. They proven to be incompetent.

[Neovik1]

Hahahah! You just continuously out do yourself with every post. Can we change your PC handle to fake news?

[HebrewToYou]

For the record, I have a soul.

[BriarFox]

FortyBox: The voice of speculation and MORAL OUTRAGE. Keep going, buddy. You’ll blow a blood vessel.

All that happened was a few people in a big organisation found out that you could enchant coraesine. They didn’t bother to check this with anyone because the enchanting changes were unclear. Should they have? Maybe. That’s the debatable part. But no, let’s just declare: Huge crime! Should disband! People have NO soulzzz! Coraesine causes LAG!

[Realk]

FortyBox: The voice of speculation and MORAL OUTRAGE. Keep going, buddy. You’ll blow a blood vessel.

All that happened was a few people in a big organisation found out that you could enchant coraesine. They didn’t bother to check this with anyone because the enchanting changes were unclear. Should they have? Maybe. That’s the debatable part. But no, let’s just declare: Huge crime! Should disband! People have NO soulzzz! Coraesine causes LAG!

wow more deflection from the reality, simu fucked up and you guys planned to exploit it the max.. I was all about puting the blame on them until you all started sharing.... i disliked you guys from the start but now you really have made it clear that you all are just some do what you want take what you want scum.

[Ragz]

Here is what I think happened. One of these morons figured out that you could enchant these metals. They then broadcasted it to their buddy network and NOBODY bothered to question or ask why.

Your deductive reasoning is staggering, sir. It’s like you read what we were saying, then just replaced our names with insults so you could make sense of the story. Impressive!

[Murrandii]

Saying the people (a) within HotA (b) are corrupted, making HotA (b) corrupted is as stupid as saying since HotA(b) is in gemstone (c), therefore gemstone (c) is corrupted.

It's just a coincidence.

Stop seeing correlations. This 925 abuse from sOME cheating PEOPLE playing gemstone (gemstone is a cheating game LOL) is NOT an excuse to throw HotA on the public and make a public trial and say they're guilty becauce reasons.

IT's not even a debat, it's always what makes this dumb PC so dumb, cause they are dumb people (LOL again). You don't like HotA? Fine, don't correlate stuff, it makes you a conspiracy believer.

Gemstone has cheaters, HotA got cheaters. Welcome to life.

[BriarFox]

wow more deflection from the reality, simu fucked up and you guys planned to exploit it the max.. I was all about puting the blame on them until you all started sharing.... i disliked you guys from the start but now you really have made it clear that you all are just some do what you want take what you want scum.

I’m glad you know these enchanters’ minds better than they do! Someone needs to lay down the law here.

[Methais]

I think you mean, "When Dreaven was told his rampant botting and use of Rapid Fire to spell up 200 people at once were causing problems, he changed his tactics so he could continue asking people to give him money through his Patreon," don't you?

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/105/036/ada.jpg

I think HoA (the ones involved in this dumb shit anyway) and Simu are both full of shit. HoA trying to be all lawyer mode, and Simu being all liar mode.

Except Nodyre or whoever got pwned for the Krodera thing. That's stupid as fuck and Coase is a giant gaping unshaven smelly cunt for that. Krodera is fucking useless.

I think Simu is also full of shit about "not everyone was warned," at least until someone who wasn't warned can verify it.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I was not warned.

[Methais]

This is why I don’t like you. Regardless of what you think about Dreaven, he acted in a manner that resolved the solution.

Your stupid organization on the other hand didn’t and it took Wyrom posting about why the lag was the way it was to actually admit you were the problem.

Lastly, you’re a hypocrite for taking shots at Dreaven for getting Patreons for his service. You are pretty much the most overpriced merchant selling crap here on PC. STFU with your hypocrisy.

This is correct.

[Methais]

I can only speak for myself, sir, but I'm happy to answer:

1. I was not aware that enchanting krodera under the new system was a bug, especially since the sword could be enchanted under the OLD system, too.
2. I did not collude with anyone. I hired enchanters to work on my sword. None of them had any concerns that the item was buggy since it was from the '90s.
3. I *proactively* alerted staff to the fact I was enchanting this sword on August 15th via the official discord once I was made aware of the -999 material difficulty entry on the wiki.
4. There was no continued abuse at all after this point. I didn't even touch the sword.

Hope that helps to assuage your concerns.

If you got a warning anyway and this is the whole story, then Coase is a cunt and you should go nuts on feedback. Or hit up Wyrom first, then go to feedback if that doesn't get you anywhere.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

This is correct.

Why do you hate capitalism?!

[Methais]

we even suggested they cap Reim entry like they do for other quests. At this point, I'm not quite sure what else you'd like the group to do.

Is there something stopping HoA from implementing their own Reim entry cap?

If Dreaven can do it, so can HoA.




HoA: Hey Simu I got an idea, how about just cap the number of people for Reim entry?

Wyrom: That might help, but you guys could literally do that yourselves too, without requiring a mechanics change to force it.

HoA:
https://media1.tenor.com/images/c64a93505e5f453cc409cd998ca56fcb/tenor.gif?itemid=13129374




Simu: Hey Dreaven, having 4532780942 people at Dreavenings is fucking shit up.

Dreaven: Okay.
Dreaven: *fixes problem in like a day*

HoA: What about that Reim cap though?

[BriarFox]

Is there something stopping HoA from implementing their own Reim entry cap?

If Dreaven can do it, so can HoA.

HoA: Hey Simu I got an idea, how about just cap the number of people for Reim entry?

Wyrom: That might help, but you guys could literally do that yourselves too, without requiring a mechanics change to force it.

HoA:
https://media1.tenor.com/images/c64a93505e5f453cc409cd998ca56fcb/tenor.gif?itemid=13129374




Simu: Hey Dreaven, having 4532780942 people at Dreavenings is fucking shit up.

Dreaven: Okay.
Dreaven: *fixes problem in like a day*

HoA: What about that Reim cap though?

We basically do, actually. If our group gets over 20ish people, we usually divide into two. The lag issue is caused by scaling messaging requirements for larger groups (same reason huge groups get silenced automatically in one room), and this tactic mostly fixes it.

[Methais]

@Mobius1: Your position is entirely reasonable. With that said, I would ask that you consider separating the actions of the Officers and/or individual members from the MHO itself.

There are a lot of wonderful people in the group – officers included! – whose presence in Elanthia make the game more enjoyable for everyone. And I think there was some great feedback in this thread (or perhaps another?) that suggested HOA do more than just group hunting stuff. Definitely given me food for thought.

Perhaps the shitheads that are giving HoA a bad name should stop be tossed out of HoA if you don't want HoA to be generally viewed as cancer.

Just like with most other things, it only takes 1 or 2 assholes to taint the whole group.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Couldn't Simu *gasp* fix the underlying lag issue... instead of blaming it on too many people enjoying the game? Someone mentioned Stockholm syndrome earlier... this seems like a prime example of that.

[Stumplicker]

Couldn't Simu *gasp* fix the underlying lag issue... instead of blaming it on too many people enjoying the game? Someone mentioned Stockholm syndrome earlier... this seems like a prime example of that.

The issue is that too many people in the same room getting the same line feeds causes the game to have to send lots of lines all at once. When you have 20 people in a room all spamming multiline combat text at 20 critters every 40 seconds and every line of every action has to go to 20 people at once, the game lags. It's why at big merchants you can't talk and some things get squelched.

The problem is that if you limit the group size to say, 5, it becomes slower for those 20 people to get ghost bucks and max out and fire another $1 into a Reim orb. If they limit group size, they lower interest/ability in people spending $1 every 10 minutes for 2 hours 2-3 nights per week, and they won't do that.

HotA cut the groups into roughly 10-11 people each when lag started becoming a problem because that doesn't really cut into their speed. Most people can't hit 11+ critters in one attack to tag and get credit for everything that spawned anyway. But if you limit it to less, people with the ability to hit 7, 8, 9 things at once lose out. So they won't go lower, and Simu won't fix it because that'd mean fewer dollars.

That's the issue in a nutshell. Theoretically they could make 20 ghosts spawn as one big ghost blob critter and solve part of the issue, but not all of it, and that comes with its own set of hurdles as it is. Truly fixing the underlying issue without limiting group size would require a rewrite of pretty much the whole engine.

[Taernath]

Couldn't Simu *gasp* fix the underlying lag issue... instead of blaming it on too many people enjoying the game? Someone mentioned Stockholm syndrome earlier... this seems like a prime example of that.

It's a structural problem with GS itself, from a time before Krakii crawled up out of the sea and took his first shuddering breath.

[Methais]

I'd say customer service at Simu is way better than it used to be. The GMs definitely don't treat everyone like a bunch of misbehaving kids and try to scold you anymore. Well, not as much.

In exchange for cleaning up the CS side, the dev side took a massive shit.

Not because they're not skilled coders, but because they're a bunch of arrogant and most likely autistic chodes with god awful ideas 99% of the time unless it's P2W.

Except Konacon. He's cool. And most of the others. Except the ones in charge. Their ideas are bottom tier trash.

[Fortybox]

Couldn't Simu *gasp* fix the underlying lag issue... instead of blaming it on too many people enjoying the game? Someone mentioned Stockholm syndrome earlier... this seems like a prime example of that.

Yes, Simu needs to fix it. That’s not the issue though. It’s the jerky response from HoA, the elitist attitude that is the problem.

Dreaven handled it like a pro. HoA just proved why so many don’t like them.

[BriarFox]

Yes, Simu needs to fix it. That’s not the issue though. It’s the jerky response from HoA, the elitist attitude that is the problem.

Dreaven handled it like a pro. HoA just proved why so many don’t like them.

You don't like HoA. We get it. Congrats on turning a thread about unclear enchanting changes and unfairly penalized players into a soapbox.

[Donquix]

If A = B and B = C, does A = C? This isn't a difficult concept. At least, I hope it isn't.

neither is just admitting you were fucking wrong :D

[audioserf]

HOA is like any group. There are jerks and elitists, and there are people you wouldn't even know are in HOA because they don't talk about it. The group is judged by a combination of the loudest and worse examples. There's people on that list who got posted who I think are awesome, and I had no idea they were in the group. I don't think of them differently now. I think the lag issue sucks, and I don't doubt that HOA have taken actions to mitigate it, but it still makes sense that people hold that against them, tbh. The warnings (except for Nodyre, who got flatly hosed and should appeal as hard as possible) seem more warranted the longer I think on it, but it seems like people should just move on at this point. The warnings were issued and they're ultimately a slap on the wrist. Unless people plan to get more warnings they can probably forget it ever happened. The absolute bile in some of the posts about HOA is wild, though. We're all playing a game for the most extreme nerds alive who really enjoy MUDs and the 1990s. Let's calm down. Source: I'm a nerd

[Alfster]

Congrats on turning a thread about unclear enchanting changes and unfairly penalized players into a soapbox.

Lol that's what you think this is.

[Fortybox]

You don't like HoA. We get it. Congrats on turning a thread about unclear enchanting changes and unfairly penalized players into a soapbox.

Maybe you should focus on removing the corrupt apples from your org. May also want to hire a PR rep - you’re very bad at it.

You could also step down too.

[Taernath]

neither is just admitting you were fucking wrong :D

It's pretty clear what I'm arguing. Go back and re-read if you need to.

[Murrandii]

I hope the accused acknowledge they're being judged by 4-5 persons on this forum who happens to judge ANYONE on ANY matters whatsoever. The same 4-5 persons.

If the accused knows this, I think they should ask this simple question: Does their opinion reflects the majority?

Assuming an answer, next question will be: Do you even think you could change these 4-5 persons who act as if they're Judge for the benefits of others?

A bonus question: Do you think they are 100% flawless and NEVER do anything wrong that could make them accused by their peers after? LOL

[Whirlin]

This is correct.
That's not accurate.
They asked Dreaven to change his actions to be more streamlined to reduce lag, Dreaven objected, but eventually complied. The end result is that the changes worked.
Simu engaged with us to test changes to reduce lag. We worked with them on a variety of tests, and changed our actions. We tried split the group, they lowered spawn rates, turned off invasions, tried new flags. The end result is that nothing worked, they didn't do anything to further work on it.

[Stumplicker]

Glad to see you back, by the way, Whirlin.

[mgoddess]

Already fixed. You can't lose a weapon now unless you fail to use my or just drop it for no reason.

And, if you're smart, you'll set at least the 'SaferDrop' flag, and probably the 'NoMarkedDrop' flag... and mark your items, so they don't get lost! (official's post about said flags (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/General%20GemStone%20IV%20Discussion/Game%20Systems/thread/1902827))


Truly fixing the underlying issue without limiting group size would require a rewrite of pretty much the whole engine.
This. You can only do so much when the engine that runs the game is single-threaded and can only handle so much at once. Remember, the engine is a product of the late 80's to early 90's time frame.

[Whirlin]

Maybe you should focus on removing the corrupt apples from your org. May also want to hire a PR rep - you’re very bad at it.


I don't disagree with you... but I'd like to see a little more evidence about Simu's accusations before requiring any organization to take actions. And let HoA leadership analyze involvement and the involvement of the individuals who received warnings (if that becomes public information) to determine appropriate steps.

Right now, the community has... Simu's word (honestly, since when has this been worth literally anything). We've already proven earlier on in the thread that there are areas of uncertainty which means that there's more nuance associated with the actions, with the individual that got a warning for hiring enchanters... And based on Briarfox checking the HoA discord, he didn't see widespread evidence of discussion about the enchanting stuff happening through the official HoA channels of communication. Anyone on Discord can PM anyone else or set up small group chats with anyone that shares any of their servers.

I'm still not 100% certain that HoA is the only way the communications did or could have occurred, that is still speculation. We're seeing a lot of folks comment about it because HoA folks are the individuals are the more active community members by nature of being capped/etc. HoA contains a lot of veterans with a lot of members comprising a lot of the capped population. ANY events that contain any set of players will likely proportionally impact HoA.

There's lots of gemstone based organizations, even more if we consider non-official communication groups. If you consider CHEs getting more active with Discord servers, etc, I don't have sufficient evidence on my end to know that there wasn't discussion about the enchanting bug within Paupers or Silvergate Discords (examples). Are the same reprimanding activities required from each CHE that could have had an impacted member? If all MHOs and all CHEs should reprimand folks, isn't that redundant of the warnings issued by Simu?

[Fortybox]

I don't disagree with you... but I'd like to see a little more evidence about Simu's accusations before requiring any organization to take actions. And let HoA leadership analyze involvement and the involvement of the individuals who received warnings (if that becomes public information) to determine appropriate steps.

Right now, the community has... Simu's word (honestly, since when has this been worth literally anything). We've already proven earlier on in the thread that there are areas of uncertainty which means that there's more nuance associated with the actions, with the individual that got a warning for hiring enchanters... And based on Briarfox checking the HoA discord, he didn't see widespread evidence of discussion about the enchanting stuff happening through the official HoA channels of communication. Anyone on Discord can PM anyone else or set up small group chats with anyone that shares any of their servers.

I'm still not 100% certain that HoA is the only way the communications did or could have occurred, that is still speculation. We're seeing a lot of folks comment about it because HoA folks are the individuals are the more active community members by nature of being capped/etc. HoA contains a lot of veterans with a lot of members comprising a lot of the capped population. ANY events that contain any set of players will likely proportionally impact HoA.

There's lots of gemstone based organizations, even more if we consider non-official communication groups. If you consider CHEs getting more active with Discord servers, etc, I don't have sufficient evidence on my end to know that there wasn't discussion about the enchanting bug within Paupers or Silvergate Discords (examples). Are the same reprimanding activities required from each CHE that could have had an impacted member? If all MHOs and all CHEs should reprimand folks, isn't that redundant of the warnings issued by Simu?

Didn’t HoA betray you? I thought you left in part because of them.

Maybe you should take the reigns back.

[Whirlin]

Didn’t HoA betray you? I thought you left in part because of them.

Maybe you should take the reigns back.
So I can just centralize everything you hate? :lol:

[Methais]

http://members.optusnet.com.au/sjbhill3/Webpage/images/Pics/retards/Winning%20Spaz.jpg

Why do most/all scout troop leaders look like child molesters?

That guy is clearly banging Corky in the tent at night.

[Fortybox]

So I can just centralize everything you hate? :lol:

Centralize the good things - remove the bad.

[Methais]

Seriously, who cares what other people do? I get this all the time about ‘I’m not paid enough, so and so gets paid more’ I hear people are pussy faggots. Give me a reason to pay you more, not why another is paid more. Be better.

What if they were messing with the payroll system to duplicate the Superman III / Office Space glitch though?

[Fortybox]

I hope the accused acknowledge they're being judged by 4-5 persons on this forum who happens to judge ANYONE on ANY matters whatsoever. The same 4-5 persons.

If the accused knows this, I think they should ask this simple question: Does their opinion reflects the majority?

Assuming an answer, next question will be: Do you even think you could change these 4-5 persons who act as if they're Judge for the benefits of others?

A bonus question: Do you think they are 100% flawless and NEVER do anything wrong that could make them accused by their peers after? LOL

You don’t need to suck up. I’m pretty sure you can join them - requirements are low, especially in the ethics department. You’ll pass with flying colors!

[Methais]

I dunno, this is kind of a nuanced situation, I wouldn't trust simu's notes on the manner if you got pulled for your third warning and they just decide to ban you.

I'm too lazy to find the post with the log, but didn't Coase or whoever it was specifically say something like "No lockouts are being recommended due to your overall good standing." or something to that effect?

[Methais]

If we get new players i’d Imagine once they research Gemstone this forum would come up and more than likely people have said fuck this shit and didn’t even bother with GS. I can give two shits if I agree or disagree with him and I can handle myself.

What's more likely is that they'll try the officials, see how fucking useless and outdated they are, either quit right then and there, or they'll come here and enjoy being able to say wtf they want while still being able to get the info they're looking for.

This is assuming GS actually has a regular flow of new players instead of like 6 people per year, which isn't the case.

Anyone who can handle LNet should have no problem dealing with the PC.

Not to mention, outside of the politics folder when the ultratards are active, it's not really all that toxic here overall anyway.


I’m just stating this is not a good site to promote our community in any positive light. Most of the people on here aren’t even active players.

Neither is $15-50 a month + tons of microtransactions for a 30 year old text game run by volunteers, but Simu somehow manages to find people dumb enough to make it work.

[Murrandii]

You don’t need to suck up. I’m pretty sure you can join them - requirements are low, especially in the ethics department. You’ll pass with flying colors!

When you're done playing the quatuor Judges on PC about anything you disagree, we'll move to constructive matter like ranting on Simu and giving out ideas or talking recipes.

[Whirlin]

I'm too lazy to find the post with the log, but didn't Coase or whoever it was specifically say something like "No lockouts are being recommended due to your overall good standing." or something to that effect?

I don't need to find it, but I think I had read the same thing...
I was just thinking in 4 years from now, some nub who decided to be a GM, like (insert PC poster's name here) joins simu, and you got caught with a gerkin in your trousers in game.
Based on policy 757193 that Simu passed at 6 AM via their discord help channel, that's now a bannable abuse offense for reasons.
And GM (insert PC Poster's name here), dgaf and decided to ban everyone on this list that has 1 warning ever about anything because GMs can be super lazy.
Gelston's commented that the bar's a little higher than that, so it's not likely, but I could understand not wanting an official warning to prevent against situations like that.

It's kinda sad that as ridiculous as that sounds, it also sounds not entirely inplausible.

[Methais]

at release Naos:
Didn't update any documentation.
Refused to answer practically any meaningful questions about the system and difficulty changes.
ignored or deflected players who did bring concerns about item difficulties for days post release until the hilariously out of whack ones were brought up, and then it was Estild who had to confirm those
was a shithead whenever people tried to ask about when the potion vendor would be done (that continues to this day)


You left out the best part where Naos literally asked (paraphrased, I think anyway) "Why would you want to test this on the test server?" when someone brought up that this should have been on the test server first IIRC.

[audioserf]

.

[Methais]

They sure did, three times in fact. Once, however, was AFTER these things were enchanted (probably). All 3 of these were on a weekday at around 1:30 pm on discord and fucking no where else. In the #mechanics channel that is probably the most most spammy channel on the server. The first was before new-enchant (feb with the limitbreaker potions) so that only gets half credit.

Yeah that seems practical. Check the wiki it's authoritative....ANNNNND also discord on Estild's lunch breaks during the week.

It's pretty mind blowing that Simu doesn't have some sort of rule in place where any and all official info on anything new that's posted in Discord should have to be posted on the officials too, and/or as a NEWS item, or literally anywhere that doesn't require you to find a needle in the 537482052437 message haystack since you were last signed in 45 minutes ago on Discord where someone just happened to ask X question that Estild responded to with an actual answer, with 537482052436 of those messages usually being people asking Simu to shart in their mouth.

Discord is pretty much the worst format they could use for any sort of in-game news distribution, and there's plenty of mechanics info that's buried in Discord and likely posted nowhere else.

Regardless of any guilt on HoA members though, it would be nice if Simu could stop being so fucking lazy with anything non-P2W related for once. It also wouldn't hurt Naos to realize that this isn't GS3 in the 1990s anymore either where apparently the cool thing to do was figure out all the formulas yourself through ridiculous amounts of mind numbing bullshit testing.

TLDR: Simu is dumb

[audioserf]

If they could get the GM Answer Bot working, that would at least be a repository of GM statements on discord, even if you'd lose context. They know the officials are trash from the dump and they all seem to want to drop them and just use discord, but they need something more permanent/searchable/accessible for people who can't sit on a chat all day.

[Methais]

From the female cleric that spends her days reporting names she doesn't like to the other female cleric that used her position as a police dispatcher to gain access to peoples personal information.

More details required plz.

[Methais]

All that happened was a few people in a big organisation found out that you could enchant coraesine. They didn’t bother to check this with anyone because the enchanting changes were unclear. Should they have? Maybe. That’s the debatable part. But no, let’s just declare: Huge crime! Should disband! People have NO soulzzz! Coraesine causes LAG!

This seems like a good time to ask this again, since you ignored the question earlier:


It's possible they have something. I reviewed all messages (and deleted messages) in the HOA Discord server, and there's nothing more incriminating than: "Did they mean to make this enchantable? Huh. I wonder if they'll fix it." To equate that response with "intentionally abusing a bug in collusion with other players for profit" is a pretty big leap. Players don't generally get punished for GMs forgetting to do something (like flag coraesine as unenchantable).


"Did they mean to make this enchantable? Huh. I wonder if they'll fix it."


"I wonder if they'll fix it."

Are you really not seeing the issue here? If you need more assistance with this, just let me know.

Simu sucks tremendously, don't get me wrong, but you've come across as disingenuous for pretty much this entire thread.

[BriarFox]

You’re reading too much into my paraphrase, and that was bad phrasing on my part, using the word “fixed.” People wondered if it’d get changed back, but that wasn’t evidence that they knew it was a bug. Simu has historically changed how things work over time, eg DB cloaks, fusion enchanting, etc.

[Methais]

I was not warned.

YOU CAN'T PROVE THAT!

[Methais]

We basically do, actually. If our group gets over 20ish people, we usually divide into two. The lag issue is caused by scaling messaging requirements for larger groups (same reason huge groups get silenced automatically in one room), and this tactic mostly fixes it.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/IHBFxgpzIFIFa/giphy.gif


Couldn't Simu *gasp* fix the underlying lag issue... instead of blaming it on too many people enjoying the game? Someone mentioned Stockholm syndrome earlier... this seems like a prime example of that.

No. It is against Simu policy for them to be accountable for their own fuckups and incompetence.


HOA is like any group. There are jerks and elitists, and there are people you wouldn't even know are in HOA because they don't talk about it. The group is judged by a combination of the loudest and worse examples. There's people on that list who got posted who I think are awesome, and I had no idea they were in the group. I don't think of them differently now. I think the lag issue sucks, and I don't doubt that HOA have taken actions to mitigate it, but it still makes sense that people hold that against them, tbh. The warnings (except for Nodyre, who got flatly hosed and should appeal as hard as possible) seem more warranted the longer I think on it, but it seems like people should just move on at this point. The warnings were issued and they're ultimately a slap on the wrist. Unless people plan to get more warnings they can probably forget it ever happened. The absolute bile in some of the posts about HOA is wild, though. We're all playing a game for the most extreme nerds alive who really enjoy MUDs and the 1990s. Let's calm down. Source: I'm a nerd

A few things about this thread though...

1. Anyone who disliked HoA is probably going to dislike them even more now, even if it's only due to a few bad apples in the bunch. This certainly won't help their apparently already tainted reputation, even if the majority of its members are cool people.

2. Everyone on all sides of this are sick of Simu's shit and how they continue blaming their own laziness and incompetence at QC and distributing information (while simultaneously telling players to experiment) on the players (i.e. Nodyre).

3. BriarFox is an excuse machine.

4. Penis.

[Methais]

That's not accurate.
They asked Dreaven to change his actions to be more streamlined to reduce lag, Dreaven objected, but eventually complied. The end result is that the changes worked.
Simu engaged with us to test changes to reduce lag. We worked with them on a variety of tests, and changed our actions. We tried split the group, they lowered spawn rates, turned off invasions, tried new flags. The end result is that nothing worked, they didn't do anything to further work on it.

Lack of denial of BriarFox's stuff being overpriced noted.

[Methais]

You’re reading too much into my paraphrase, and that was bad phrasing on my part, using the word “fixed.” People wondered if it’d get changed back, but that wasn’t evidence that they knew it was a bug. Simu has historically changed how things work over time, eg DB cloaks, fusion enchanting, etc.

https://media.giphy.com/media/9G3wg7lH5DpxC/giphy-downsized-large.gif

[Whirlin]

Lack of denial of BriarFox's stuff being overpriced noted.
Hey now. Free market, charge what you want, and if people don't pay, that's on you. That's capitalism, you taught me that sempai.

[Whirlin]

Lack of denial of BriarFox's stuff being overpriced noted.
Selling my bow for $20,000

[BriarFox]

https://media.giphy.com/media/9G3wg7lH5DpxC/giphy-downsized-large.gif

Hindsight is perfect. It's easy to look back now, point a finger, and say, "You should have KNOWN!" It wasn't clear then, though. And, again, I wasn't actually involved in any of this, but I see the positions of the people who were.

[Taernath]

Selling my bow for $20,000

No coraesine, no deal.

[Methais]

Hey now. Free market, charge what you want, and if people don't pay, that's on you. That's capitalism, you taught me that sempai.

That post was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but yes.


Hindsight is perfect. It's easy to look back now, point a finger, and say, "You should have KNOWN!" It wasn't clear then, though. And, again, I wasn't actually involved in any of this, but I see the positions of the people who were.

If you have to say "I wonder if they'll fix it" or "I wonder if it'll get changed back" or whatever other statement indicating any amount of possible doubt, then that should be a pretty clear indicator that you should consider checking with staff first. Especially, and I mean like 9999999999999x especially, knowing how incompetent Simu QC is and how they love blaming that shit on the players.

I'll never agree with Simu's "You should know better!" policy, but everyone here is fully aware that that's how these idiots have always operated. The fact that it's an extremely stupid way to run things is irrelevant.

[Methais]

On second thought, maybe that's what Mazreth meant when they said "You should have known better." or however they said it. They weren't referring to enchanting mechanics, they actually meant "You should have known Simu would blame their super shitty QC on the players."

In which case, they should have known better. Because Simu are dumb stupid dumbstupidheads.

[Gelston]

BriarFox made nothing better with his comments. I'd almost think he was a plant from the rival MHO Foot of the Arkati to discredit HOA.

[Parkbandit]

If you have to say "I wonder if they'll fix it" or "I wonder if it'll get changed back" or whatever other statement indicating any amount of possible doubt, then that should be a pretty clear indicator that you should consider checking with staff first. Especially, and I mean like 9999999999999x especially, knowing how incompetent Simu QC is and how they love blaming that shit on the players.

I'll never agree with Simu's "You should know better!" policy, but everyone here is fully aware that that's how these idiots have always operated. The fact that it's an extremely stupid way to run things is irrelevant.

https://media.giphy.com/media/QNkqCboIvohezjniGA/giphy.gif

[Parkbandit]

BriarFox made nothing better with his comments. I'd almost think he was a plant from the rival MHO Foot of the Arkati to discredit HOA.

He should have just not posted anything and let someone like Nodyre speak for the HoA.

Now I'm siding with Simutronics.. and that makes me feel disgusting.

[drumpel]

What a way to spend an hour of my day while not much is going on at work....read up on all the bitch ass replies back and forth - I'm not sure if I should find this thread humorous or pathetic.

What I gather:

1) Folks did something wrong because of a design (code) mistake
https://img.techpowerup.org/190905/capture.png

2) Simu reverted items to original enchants and handed out warnings.
https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000035055903-mx54aj-t500x500.jpg


3) Folks that got warnings cried because butt hurt and claim stupidity to the enchanting system or they didn't know better defense....
https://pics.me.me/my-butthurt-detector-is-going-crazy-memecrunch-com-25735779.png


4) Simu laughs on their way to the bank, all the while pointing and laughing harder at the folks that dumped extra money into DR to try and make use of the loophole.
http://giphygifs.s3.amazonaws.com/media/OvL3qHSMO6uaI/200.gif

That sums it up, right? Yeah. Good.

End Thread

[Gelston]

He should have just not posted anything and let someone like Nodyre speak for the HoA.

Now I'm siding with Simutronics.. and that makes me feel disgusting.

This thread probably would have been dead the day it was created but for him. Oh well, it was fun to read on the toilet.

[BriarFox]

BriarFox made nothing better with his comments. I'd almost think he was a plant from the rival MHO Foot of the Arkati to discredit HOA.

It's a supah sekrit plot. In any case, since people were talking about HoA as a whole (which wasn't really involved), I tried to offer some honest perspective. If you want someone to take a bunch of grief and not give any back, well -- this is the PC.

[Gelston]

It's a supah sekrit plot. In any case, since people were talking about HoA as a whole (which wasn't really involved), I tried to offer some honest perspective. If you want someone to take a bunch of grief and not give any back, well -- this is the PC.

Ever notice how large companies sometimes just never respond to shit, or just toss out a quick reply and never say anything again? Yeah people are pissed, but it goes away.

[HebrewToYou]

Listen, I'm happy to be the Baghdad Bob of the HOA if need-be.

Kidding aside, I don't think we need to beat this dead horse any further. Right now the folks that were warned are either taking their lumps or appealing to the Powers That Be. In my case, I spoke to Wyrom one-on-one last week and am waiting to hear back if there's any additional information. As silly as it may sound, I could care less about the warning (my second in 20+ years) – I care more that the staff (read: Coase) thinks that I'm the type of idiot who would try to GMA krodera. I'm an idiot – as all of us who pay Simutronics truly are – but I'm not a fucking doofus.

[Parkbandit]

It's a supah sekrit plot. In any case, since people were talking about HoA as a whole (which wasn't really involved), I tried to offer some honest perspective. If you want someone to take a bunch of grief and not give any back, well -- this is the PC.

https://media0.giphy.com/media/ZRr16htlE5tte/giphy.gif

[Methais]

This thread probably would have been dead the day it was created but for him. Oh well, it was fun to read on the toilet.

I'm grateful for this thread. This place has been pretty dead lately except when BacKKKlash is tarding it up in politics. We were overdue for another good PC uproar thread, and so far this thread has delivered.

[Parkbandit]

I'm an idiot – as all of us who pay Simutronics truly are

Truer words have never been posted on this forum ever.

You won.

[HebrewToYou]

Fuck yeah.

[BriarFox]

Ever notice how large companies sometimes just never respond to shit, or just toss out a quick reply and never say anything again? Yeah people are pissed, but it goes away.

I'm not a company PR guy for HoA. If someone starts throwing punches at me or my friends, I'm going to throw some back, and that's really all there is to it. Fortybox and AnOrdim started really digging into HoA around post 150, and if telling them what insane twits they are made things more heated, I am happy to own that.

Instead of pointing at me, you could acknowledge that the real cause of this thread is the PC's prurient interest in the naughty things other people allegedly did. Oh, and the insane people with their wildly unsupported accusations (like I made thousands of dollars off coraesine -- WTF to that).

[Gelston]

I'm not a company PR guy for HoA. If someone starts throwing punches at me or my friends, I'm going to throw some back, and that's really all there is to it. Fortybox and AnOrdim started really digging into HoA around post 150, and if telling them what insane twits they are made things more heated, I am happy to own that.

Instead of pointing at me, you could acknowledge that the real cause of this thread is the PC's prurient interest in the naughty things other people allegedly did. Oh, and the insane people with their wildly unsupported accusations (like I made thousands of dollars off coraesine -- WTF to that).

Even now you are continually posting and I'll continue responding. See how that is?

[BriarFox]

Even now you are continually posting and I'll continue responding. See how that is?

Yes, sir, clearly, sir, you are superior in your knowledge of future events and the internet -- SIR!

[Parkbandit]

I'm not a company PR guy for HoA. If someone starts throwing punches at me or my friends, I'm going to throw some back, and that's really all there is to it. Fortybox and AnOrdim started really digging into HoA around post 150, and if telling them what insane twits they are made things more heated, I am happy to own that.

Instead of pointing at me, you could acknowledge that the real cause of this thread is the PC's prurient interest in the naughty things other people allegedly did. Oh, and the insane people with their wildly unsupported accusations (like I made thousands of dollars off coraesine -- WTF to that).

To be fair, you've never struck me as someone who would throw a punch at anyone. Slap maybe. Eye scratch perhaps.

A punch?

https://media.giphy.com/media/LbfT5qdS9m1zy/giphy.gif

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

I'm retiring to the Bahama's with all the money I made enchanting coraesine. I hear land is cheap there right now!

[HebrewToYou]

I'm retiring in ... Detroit, I guess, for having my krodera sword enchanted.

[BriarFox]

To be fair, you've never struck me as someone who would throw a punch at anyone. Slap maybe. Eye scratch perhaps.

A punch?

https://media.giphy.com/media/LbfT5qdS9m1zy/giphy.gif

Aw, were you mad that I’ve been ignoring you? Well, here you go:

I’m so flattered that you know me this well. You know, have you ever woken up and been, like, “Damn, a bot could give all the responses I give online. I’m too predictable — wait, shit, AM I a bot?!”

If so, what happened after the OS crash? Inquiring minds must know.

[Fortybox]

That post was mostly tongue-in-cheek, but yes.



If you have to say "I wonder if they'll fix it" or "I wonder if it'll get changed back" or whatever other statement indicating any amount of possible doubt, then that should be a pretty clear indicator that you should consider checking with staff first. Especially, and I mean like 9999999999999x especially, knowing how incompetent Simu QC is and how they love blaming that shit on the players.

I'll never agree with Simu's "You should know better!" policy, but everyone here is fully aware that that's how these idiots have always operated. The fact that it's an extremely stupid way to run things is irrelevant.

Pretty much this. HoA is a highly engaged group with the game, membership tenure being decades for a lot of folks. This is the group that knows every detail about DR, for example, what specific items are coming out in HESS, etc. They know what Wyrom ate for lunch because they smooch his booty on Discord all day long.

Even SoyFox said they painstakingly QA’d REIM with GMs.

Now all of a sudden we are suppose to believe they went full retard with enchanting and just didn’t know. Yeah right. They knew it and exploited it and all they got was a warning. The real shame in all of this is these folks weren’t banned and the MHO disbanded.

[HebrewToYou]

Fortybox: I totally understand you have an axe to grind, but the MHO really isn't what you think it is. Nor are the people caught up in this unfortunate event as terrible as you make them out to be. Take that as you will.

[Gelston]

Fortybox: I totally understand you have an axe to grind, but the MHO really isn't what you think it is. Nor are the people caught up in this unfortunate event as terrible as you make them out to be. Take that as you will.

I have it on good authority they all kick puppies and steal from girl scouts.

[HebrewToYou]

I prefer to only rob Boy Scouts. Because, y'know, the patriarchy.

[Fortybox]

Fortybox: I totally understand you have an axe to grind, but the MHO really isn't what you think it is. Nor are the people caught up in this unfortunate event as terrible as you make them out to be. Take that as you will.

Reform under Whirlin or you as the leader. You’re like the only one that has a brain from HoA in this thread.

[drauz]

Aw, were you mad that I’ve been ignoring you? Well, here you go:

I’m so flattered that you know me this well. You know, have you ever woken up and been, like, “Damn, a bot could give all the responses I give online. I’m too predictable — wait, shit, AM I a bot?!”

If so, what happened after the OS crash? Inquiring minds must know.

I think it must be SoyBox's time of the month, Ordim and him are probably sync'd on their cycles by now. Give it a few days and he might calm down.

[Parkbandit]

Aw, were you mad that I’ve been ignoring you? Well, here you go:

You suck at ignoring, if that was what you were doing.


I’m so flattered that you know me this well.

You're "so flattered"? This is why you give off the vibe.


You know, have you ever woken up and been, like, “Damn, a bot could give all the responses I give online. I’m too predictable — wait, shit, AM I a bot?!”

If so, what happened after the OS crash? Inquiring minds must know.


https://media2.giphy.com/media/3o6fJ4oxRFWZT3y55S/giphy.gif

https://media2.giphy.com/media/uJxh6SojbmJDW/giphy.gif

https://media.tenor.com/images/f54f9468d5f9ca0ec0270d090f86989b/tenor.gif

[Parkbandit]

I think it must be SoyBox's time of the month, Ordim and him are probably sync'd on their cycles by now. Give it a few days and he might calm down.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/3oz8xEpyP4PGufh9G8/source.gif

[HebrewToYou]

I don't think I've ever been introduced to Whirlin. I only returned to the game last year after a very long absence. But I've found the HOA group to be incredibly kind, generous, sarcastic, and funny. Your mileage may vary!

[Parkbandit]

I don't think I've ever been introduced to Whirlin. I only returned to the game last year after a very long absence. But I've found the HOA group to be incredibly kind, generous, sarcastic, and funny. Your mileage may vary!

He might just be a figurehead....

[Neveragain]

More details required plz.

Too many to give. One of the times I was on the phone with her while she was using the data base the police use to look up personal info on a player that had died. The problem with this is, the family of the deceased didn't want any info going to the GS community. She made it abundantly clear that this was not her first time doing this with GS players.

At this point I had realized that I once again stepped in a pile of GS crazy and cut it off that same night. Never talked to them again and a year later I start getting fake no contact e-mails from crazy, mind you I had not even played GS at this point in over a year.

Normally I would name names, because I don't give a fuck. In this case though, with someone with that kind of access, this community ain't worth it.

[AnOrdim]

I don't think I've ever been introduced to Whirlin. I only returned to the game last year after a very long absence. But I've found the HOA group to be incredibly kind, generous, sarcastic, and funny. Your mileage may vary!

He probably took back the introduction when he left along with everything else he took away.

[AnOrdim]

I think it must be SoyBox's time of the month, Ordim and him are probably sync'd on their cycles by now. Give it a few days and he might calm down.

Or maybe the most vocal members of HoTA really are just shitty people doing shitty things.

[HebrewToYou]

There are very fine people on both sides, Ordim.

[AnOrdim]

There are very fine people on both sides, Ordim.

It's a shame they gave that up when they decided that a few extra silvers were worth it to fuck up the servers multiple times a week for everyone else.

[HebrewToYou]

Lag is simply the name we give to the things we choose to do together.

[Gelston]

I prefer the olden days when we blamed it on the AOL Demon, or Lord Steve Case.

[HebrewToYou]

That fucking guy. Sitting on a throne made of discarded compact discs...

[Tgo01]

Couldn't Simu *gasp* fix the underlying lag issue... instead of blaming it on too many people enjoying the game? Someone mentioned Stockholm syndrome earlier... this seems like a prime example of that.

In Simu's defense this kind of issue isn't really inherent to Simu's servers or code or anything.

If you're in a room and you cast a mass spell against 20 critters then all of that information (the AS/DS line, the wounds, etc) all get sent to you. No problem.

If you do the same with one other person in the room with you then you both get sent all of those lines. Again, no problem.

Add a second person and you all 3 get sent those lines. Still no problem.

When you start hitting 30, 40, 50+ people? Problem. Especially since they are all probably casting their own mass spells every 0.5 seconds, so now you have 30-50+ people all casting multiple spells every second in a room full of critters all taking damage from said spells. That's a lot to handle for servers.

Especially when you add more shit like random ambient scripts going off, people waving or doing other verbs, the critters attacking, etc.

If I were to cast ewave against a room full of 100 people who are not in my group then that means I get sent 100+ lines of XML code and each person in the room is also sent 100+ lines of XML code because everyone sees everyone getting knocked down. And it all happens at the same split second.

The problem here is shortsightedness on Simu's part for not anticipating people would form large groups to tackle Reim as a raid.

I did as much as I could to help with the problem with my Dreavenings while not making them impossible to perform (reducing the number of people to 20 like they originally asked me to do.) The only thing left me as a player can do is setup my ;dreavening script so people can set an option to automatically remove any ambient gear while at the table so that's one less bit of code to be sent to every person every few seconds. I floated the idea to GMs to implement something that would make Dreavenings faster (and thus less time potentially causing lag) and also reduce the number of lines sent to everyone; give people a way to cast all of their defensive spells at another person with just one cast while also costing the same amount of mana. This way instead of my guys having to cast at someone 3+ times and sending all of those lines to everyone in the room they can just cast once, costs same mana, much faster, fewer lines of code being sent out. Didn't sound like something they wanted to bother implementing though so I guess the lag from Dreavenings can't be TOO bad.

[HebrewToYou]

I mean, there are technologies that have "solved" this problem. The issue is likely legacy systems that nobody dares touch – because the last time they tried (a few months back) the game crashed like crazy.

[Gelston]

In Simu's defense this kind of issue isn't really inherent to Simu's servers or code or anything.

If you're in a room and you cast a mass spell against 20 critters then all of that information (the AS/DS line, the wounds, etc) all get sent to you. No problem.

If you do the same with one other person in the room with you then you both get sent all of those lines. Again, no problem.

Add a second person and you all 3 get sent those lines. Still no problem.

When you start hitting 30, 40, 50+ people? Problem. Especially since they are all probably casting their own mass spells every 0.5 seconds, so now you have 30-50+ people all casting multiple spells every second in a room full of critters all taking damage from said spells. That's a lot to handle for servers.

Especially when you add more shit like random ambient scripts going off, people waving or doing other verbs, the critters attacking, etc.

If I were to cast ewave against a room full of 100 people who are not in my group then that means I get sent 100+ lines of XML code and each person in the room is also sent 100+ lines of XML code because everyone sees everyone getting knocked down. And it all happens at the same split second.

The problem here is shortsightedness on Simu's part for not anticipating people would form large groups to tackle Reim as a raid.

I did as much as I could to help with the problem with my Dreavenings while not making them impossible to perform (reducing the number of people to 20 like they originally asked me to do.) The only thing left me as a player can do is setup my ;dreavening script so people can set an option to automatically remove any ambient gear while at the table so that's one less bit of code to be sent to every person every few seconds. I floated the idea to GMs to implement something that would make Dreavenings faster (and thus less time potentially causing lag) and also reduce the number of lines sent to everyone; give people a way to cast all of their defensive spells at another person with just one cast while also costing the same amount of mana. This way instead of my guys having to cast at someone 3+ times and sending all of those lines to everyone in the room they can just cast once, costs same mana, much faster, fewer lines of code being sent out. Didn't sound like something they wanted to bother implementing though so I guess the lag from Dreavenings can't be TOO bad.

I've never noticed lag anywhere but at your table during a dreavening, while you were casting and people were sending.

[Tgo01]

That's not accurate.
They asked Dreaven to change his actions to be more streamlined to reduce lag, Dreaven objected, but eventually complied. The end result is that the changes worked.

No. I was upset, even said I understood, but I didn't object. What I objected to was them possibly wanting me to reduce the number of people in my groups even more and their sudden desire to have me stop with my "bot like" behavior of providing some services.

The end result is they walked back everything they wanted me to change, I made some changes of my own that I thought would help, and here we are. Dreavenings weren't causing a problem apparently (or some of the changes they made on their end helped) because they dropped the issue with me altogether.

[fireorlime]

No. I was upset, even said I understood, but I didn't object. What I objected to was them possibly wanting me to reduce the number of people in my groups even more and their sudden desire to have me stop with my "bot like" behavior of providing some services.

The end result is they walked back everything they wanted me to change, I made some changes of my own that I thought would help, and here we are. Dreavenings weren't causing a problem apparently (or some of the changes they made on their end helped) because they dropped the issue with me altogether.

I for one think this "Dreaven" figure is a menace to our children.

[Tgo01]

BriarFox made nothing better with his comments. I'd almost think he was a plant from the rival MHO Foot of the Arkati to discredit HOA.

I was firmly in the "I think Simu might be exaggerating their evidence claim" camp until Briarfox provided that quote, which he is now saying isn't a quote but rather a poor paraphrasing on his part. Someone questioning if it's a bug and then wondering if they'll "fix it" sure sounds like the person in question knew it was a bug, although to be fair Briarfox never said that person in particular was taking advantage of the bug.

[Whirlin]

No. I was upset, even said I understood, but I didn't object. What I objected to was them possibly wanting me to reduce the number of people in my groups even more and their sudden desire to have me stop with my "bot like" behavior of providing some services.

The end result is they walked back everything they wanted me to change, I made some changes of my own that I thought would help, and here we are. Dreavenings weren't causing a problem apparently (or some of the changes they made on their end helped) because they dropped the issue with me altogether.
It sounds more and more like our experiences with them. They had us test a bunch of crap, asked us to do things, walked back their requirements when nothing worked, they stopped trying, eventually they quasi fixed something, and supposedly things got better.

[Tgo01]

I mean, there are technologies that have "solved" this problem. The issue is likely legacy systems that nobody dares touch – because the last time they tried (a few months back) the game crashed like crazy.

I don't know, that's a lot of code to be flying around. Games like WoW have a lot of code flying around too but you usually don't get that many people in the same area all attacking 50+ critters. Sure back in the day when they had 40 man raids but even those were limited to 40 people and the number of critters people were attacking at once were usually a few, not several dozen. Nowadays though I believe WoW sticks to 25 man raids. There are 40 man battlegrounds which means 40 people on each team, but even then you don't usually have all 80 people in the same area, but when you do you can for sure notice the lag.

[Tgo01]

I've never noticed lag anywhere but at your table during a dreavening, while you were casting and people were sending.

Which is why I think Simu was full of it when they blamed Dreavenings. Sure I'll admit back in the days when I did the Dreavenings outside the bank I would have people complain about the lag while I was casting, but once I realized I was the problem I stopped doing Dreavenings until I could implement my solution of doing groups at the tables. Ever since I made that change I never once had anyone complain about lag during Dreavenings.

That's why I thought it was odd that years later the GMs decided I was causing lag. I don't know if they really thought I was causing lag or if they were looking for a scapegoat or what.

[Tgo01]

I for one think this "Dreaven" figure is a menace to our children.

Well yeah.

[Whirlin]

I noticed more lag towards the end of the lifecycle of dreavenings when simu got involved. However, you're right, it was not there at the beginning of you offering them. I mostly noticed it if I was running between cities. Even so, it was so short lived.

They just keep adding crap to the code that further slows it down with every new feature it seems, and not really streamlining shit because the player base dwindled.

[AnOrdim]

"We tried a bunch of stuff" - except anything that would cause us to have to put more effort or time into things. Like splitting up your groups over different time periods, or limiting the number of people that went in during a certain period of time. When anything of this nature was offered as a possible suggestion the group responding in unison with "but then we wont be making as much money" or "Then it takes long for us to farm ghost bucks".

So you just kept shitting on the servers with the bullshit excuse of "we tried, nothing we can do, yup... not a single fucking thing we can do about it."

[Whirlin]

We split the groups for a week. I've repeated that many times. There was no impact on the lag, many more headaches on logistics.

[AnOrdim]

We split the groups for a week. I've repeated that many times. There was no impact on the lag, many more headaches on logistics.

boo hoo on your problems. The group caused problems for everyone else and continued to do so. The problems always should have been yours to deal with and not the rest of the servers, end of story for me. The fact that you were allowed to continue to do so is very telling of where the GMs loyalties lie. Made even more clear by this current situation.

[Whirlin]

Why? I don't owe you shit. I'm paying and playing a game from simutronics, any transaction is with them. If their servers can't support my completely acceptable way of playing, and it's influencing your experiences, take it up with them, I owe you fucking nothing whatsoever. We worked with Simutronics to fix the problems. We don't answer to you, you clearly know jack shit about what we've done, you know jack shit about how the underlying code works, you're barely even able to read, definitely not comprehend anything, we don't owe your toxic ass a thing. You're not in a position of power, you're just a fucking crybaby that's fucking powerless and is throwing a tantrum with a holier than thou attitude.

[Taernath]

Since we're sharing lag stories, I've never noticed lag during Dreavenings. If I do experience lag, it's almost always during one of HotA's Reim nights.

[AnOrdim]

Why? I don't owe you shit. I'm paying and playing a game from simutronics, any transaction is with them. If their servers can't support my completely acceptable way of playing, and it's influencing your experiences, take it up with them, I owe you fucking nothing whatsoever. We worked with Simutronics to fix the problems. We don't answer to you, you clearly know jack shit about what we've done, you know jack shit about how the underlying code works, you're barely even able to read, definitely not comprehend anything, we don't owe your toxic ass a thing. You're not in a position of power, you're just a fucking crybaby that's fucking powerless and is throwing a tantrum with a holier than thou attitude.

There's the real you.

Because I was the only one that complained.

[Whirlin]

There's the real you.

Because I was the only one that complained.

No, because you're a one tones toxic piece of shit with nothing functional to add to anything. Fortybox had specific concerns, but even we at least reached some sort of understanding. Folks had problems with the lack of RP, that's incredibly true, and if I were in a position of power, I'd probably do something about it. You're rants are fucking baseless, and you're nothing but a worthless toxic troll in literally everything you do. From every crying post about how monks NEED to have something like enchanting because it's not fair that sorcerers and wizards have shit, to your constant baseless attacks even when disproven. You add absolutely nothing to anything I've ever seen you take part of. Maybe you should do more crying posts about how simu hates monks and quit again, or go on more aliases on Reddit to complain about game companies.

[AnOrdim]

No, because you're a one tones toxic piece of shit with nothing functional to add to anything. Fortybox had specific concerns, but even we at least reached some sort of understanding. Folks had problems with the lack of RP, that's incredibly true, and if I were in a position of power, I'd probably do something about it. You're rants are fucking baseless, and you're nothing but a worthless toxic troll in literally everything you do. From every crying post about how monks NEED to have something like enchanting because it's not fair that sorcerers and wizards have shit, to your constant baseless attacks even when disproven. You add absolutely nothing to anything I've ever seen you take part of. Maybe you should do more crying posts about how simu hates monks and quit again, or go on more aliases on Reddit to complain about game companies.

Wow... How the fuck can you be this off base after claiming that I have no reading comprehension. Who the fuck are you even responding to?

[AnOrdim]

Wow... How the fuck can you be this off base after claiming that I have no reading comprehension. Who the fuck are you even responding to?

Whirlin so fucking mad or so fucking dumb he thinks I'm fucking someone else right now.

You do realize I'm not Flimbo right? And have literally never championed or done any of the bullshit you mentioned. But we should really take your word for it.

Or better yet, you just proved that you were green lit to shit on the server and ruin everyone elses experience long before you left and took all your toys with you and got kicked out of your own MHO.

[Whirlin]

Whirlin so fucking mad or so fucking dumb he thinks I'm fucking someone else right now.

You do realize I'm not Flimbo right? And have literally never championed or done any of the bullshit you mentioned. But we should really take your word for it.

Or better yet, you just proved that you were green lit to shit on the server and ruin everyone elses experience long before you left and took all your toys with you and got kicked out of your own MHO.

Ohh noes, someone confused a one dimensional pieces of shit that I don't give a flying fuck about with a different one in a game I haven't been active in in years! OMG, LULZ.

I moved all my shit to a Patreon so I could afford a sub after some medical shit went down, more things I've explained time and time again, shit doesn't just disappear from the wiki, I worked with the wiki mods, discussed it, and got it taken down for extenuating circumstances. Not that any of that matters, someone bought into the patreon, reuploaded the updated stuff it to Wiki once Allereli got booted and got replaced by a GM.

Yes, we were greenlit to continue doing exactly what the fuck we were doing. We were NEVER asked to stop. When Simu asked us to do shit, we do it, try it, tested shit on the public servers. We don't need to listen to all of the piece of shit PC trolls that don't understand anything and have access to literally nothing. When Simu says that HoA isn't the main contributor of lag, they're full of shit, but when Simu says that an organization was abusing game mechanics, they couldn't have possibly been mistaking anything, and it MUST have been HoA, that's the only way to read that statement. Strange how fucking selectively you're choosing to believe what you want to.

[Neovik1]

Whirlin so fucking mad or so fucking dumb he thinks I'm fucking someone else right now.

You do realize I'm not Flimbo right? And have literally never championed or done any of the bullshit you mentioned. But we should really take your word for it.

Or better yet, you just proved that you were green lit to shit on the server and ruin everyone elses experience long before you left and took all your toys with you and got kicked out of your own MHO.

There was almost a good year where I wasn’t premium and I would hunt the scatter during HoA REIM nights. I never experienced lag. Maybe you should stop downloading porn Ordim?

[audioserf]

This thread fucking rules

[audioserf]

Someone call someone else a cuck I’m so close to busting a nut over here from the impotent animosity about Gemstone IV

[AnOrdim]

Ohh noes, someone confused a one dimensional pieces of shit that I don't give a flying fuck about with a different one in a game I haven't been active in in years! OMG, LULZ.

I moved all my shit to a Patreon so I could afford a sub after some medical shit went down, more things I've explained time and time again, shit doesn't just disappear from the wiki, I worked with the wiki mods, discussed it, and got it taken down for extenuating circumstances. Not that any of that matters, someone bought into the patreon, reuploaded the updated stuff it to Wiki once Allereli got booted and got replaced by a GM.

Yes, we were greenlit to continue doing exactly what the fuck we were doing. We were NEVER asked to stop. When Simu asked us to do shit, we do it, try it, tested shit on the public servers. We don't need to listen to all of the piece of shit PC trolls that don't understand anything and have access to literally nothing. When Simu says that HoA isn't the main contributor of lag, they're full of shit, but when Simu says that an organization was abusing game mechanics, they couldn't have possibly been mistaking anything, and it MUST have been HoA, that's the only way to read that statement. Strange how fucking selectively you're choosing to believe what you want to.

When its fucking obvious that your organization was/is the cause of it from the start and they did their best to point the finger literally everywhere else until they were forced to admit it? Yes.
That the same organization was then the majority of people that got wrapped up in a GMA situation and let off easy? yes.

I think it's pretty easy to see a pattern here.

Then they finally admitted they needed to make back end engine changes to deal with the spam of commands to partially mitigate the situation.

Awful lotta favors given to you over the years eh? Had your own forums that failed, your Discord had a bunch of GMs, the above situation. Lotta special attention paid to Whirlin and his endeavors and those of his friends.

[Whirlin]

When its fucking obvious that your organization was/is the cause of it from the start and they did their best to point the finger literally everywhere else until they were forced to admit it? Yes.
That the same organization was then the majority of people that got wrapped up in a GMA situation and let off easy? yes.
I think it's pretty easy to see a pattern here.
Then they finally admitted they needed to make back end engine changes to deal with the spam of commands to partially mitigate the situation.
Awful lotta favors given to you over the years eh? Had your own forums that failed, your Discord had a bunch of GMs, the above situation. Lotta special attention paid to Whirlin and his endeavors and those of his friends.

Again... you say that HoA is riddled with GMAs based on your own assumptions that they were talking solely about HoA, when you still haven't proven shit, while concurrently call them liars when they said HoA wasn't a cause of the lag.

If you go back and reread those threads, you'll see that I literally began the thread calling out Simutronics for saying shit and that I believed that we were causing lag, and wanted to do something about it. I also provided them logs of concurrent HoA members for every day that we had ever run events (a tradition which is currently still happening, so that Simu can compare it with their logs) But lets not bring up facts when it may conflict with your world view that you're creating from that view up your own ass.

Do you really think those were my forums? They were Ondreian's who asked me to be involved, as he wanted to run something a more up to date forum after PC got hacked. He reached out to the GMs ahead of time to get requirements from them because he wanted to have support and try to upgrade their crap because the officials are steaming piles of shit. But, I'm supposed to go OMG LULZ because you think I'm two people, and you're a fucking idiot for not knowing the difference, right? You must be sooo fucking dumb.

My Discord was the first Gemstone related discord, so yeah, GMs joined it because Discord wasn't a thing yet, and simu didn't have a stance on using it, and I was using it to help folks that joined based on that Taldorian community college youtube ad. Because it was something Simu wasn't offering yet. OMFG, it's such special treatment for utilizing technology to get in touch with folks. How fucking dare they!

You can call it special treatment if you want... I've delivered damage modeling spreadsheets, I've supported Tsoran's trainer, I've established new user guides for the community, I lead CHEs when they would otherwise be disbanded, I knew several folks before they became GM because I've been active in the community for a long time, I established a MHO that, to your own words, is full of all of the whales of Gemstone, implemented new interest in their mechanics, defended them when shit was hitting the fan on their wizard changes.

How fucking dare they ever send someone a discord message asking how I'm doing out of the blue. How fucking DARE they have a conversation with someone about modeling that wrote in depth guides on mechanics and mathematics about the game. What the FUCK kind of SPECIAL TREATMENT is that? That's fucking ridiculous favortism! Why don't they send messages when all I do is Cry on PC about an MHO that's existed for years lagging my game? Waaah.

You cuck

[audioserf]

Actually lol rn

[AnOrdim]

Again... you say that HoA is riddled with GMAs based on your own assumptions that they were talking solely about HoA, when you still haven't proven shit, while concurrently call them liars when they said HoA wasn't a cause of the lag.

If you go back and reread those threads, you'll see that I literally began the thread calling out Simutronics for saying shit and that I believed that we were causing lag, and wanted to do something about it. I also provided them logs of concurrent HoA members for every day that we had ever run events (a tradition which is currently still happening, so that Simu can compare it with their logs) But lets not bring up facts when it may conflict with your world view that you're creating from that view up your own ass.

Do you really think those were my forums? They were Ondreian's who asked me to be involved, as he wanted to run something a more up to date forum after PC got hacked. He reached out to the GMs ahead of time to get requirements from them because he wanted to have support and try to upgrade their crap because the officials are steaming piles of shit. But, I'm supposed to go OMG LULZ because you think I'm two people, and you're a fucking idiot for not knowing the difference, right? You must be sooo fucking dumb.

My Discord was the first Gemstone related discord, so yeah, GMs joined it because Discord wasn't a thing yet, and simu didn't have a stance on using it, and I was using it to help folks that joined based on that Taldorian community college youtube ad. Because it was something Simu wasn't offering yet. OMFG, it's such special treatment for utilizing technology to get in touch with folks. How fucking dare they!

You can call it special treatment if you want... I've delivered damage modeling spreadsheets, I've supported Tsoran's trainer, I've established new user guides for the community, I lead CHEs when they would otherwise be disbanded, I knew several folks before they became GM because I've been active in the community for a long time, I established a MHO that, to your own words, is full of all of the whales of Gemstone, implemented new interest in their mechanics, defended them when shit was hitting the fan on their wizard changes.

How fucking dare they ever send someone a discord message asking how I'm doing out of the blue. How fucking DARE they have a conversation with someone about modeling that wrote in depth guides on mechanics and mathematics about the game. What the FUCK kind of SPECIAL TREATMENT is that? That's fucking ridiculous favortism! Why don't they send messages when all I do is Cry on PC about an MHO that's existed for years lagging my game? Waaah.

You cuck

As long as your cool with "Fuck you got mine" you shine on you crazy diamond.

I can't believe you got Allerelli kicked off the wiki so you could get a couple of bucks.

[Whirlin]

As long as your cool with "Fuck you got mine" you shine on you crazy diamond.

I can't believe you got Allerelli kicked off the wiki so you could get a couple of bucks.
News to me on Allereli. Source on that, or was it also made up Ordimuphisownassworld?

[AnOrdim]

reuploaded the updated stuff it to Wiki once Allereli got booted and got replaced by a GM

You literally wrote that less than hour ago.

[Whirlin]

I never implied causation, I was commenting on timing. Did you really read that as causation?

[AnOrdim]

I never implied causation, I was commenting on timing. Did you really read that as causation?

Sounds like revenge for having your monetized guides taken off the wiki and allowed back on.

Are we all allowed to now take our contributions off the wiki and put them behind pay walls?

[Whirlin]

Sounds like revenge for having your monetized guides taken off the wiki and allowed back on.

Are we all allowed to now take our contributions off the wiki and put them behind pay walls?
Probably... if you spent dozens of hours writing the articles from scratch as the sole contributor, and talked to them to show them financial hardships, and explained that all proceeds were going to pay the sub to continue producing content. Can you point to an instance when that's happened and they've said no?

[AnOrdim]

Probably... if you spent dozens of hours writing the articles from scratch as the sole contributor, and talked to them to show them financial hardships, and explained that all proceeds were going to pay the sub to continue producing content. Can you point to an instance when that's happened and they've said no?

I got a year-long ban for a forums post, so v0v.

[Parkbandit]

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[Whirlin]

Sounds like revenge for having your monetized guides taken off the wiki and allowed back on.

Are we all allowed to now take our contributions off the wiki and put them behind pay walls?
If she helped me remove them and get that set up in the first place,
a) why would she allow them to be put back on, and (b) why would I hurt her after she helped me?

The narration at Ordimuphisownassworld is truly spectacular. Apparently I'm a supervillian and EVERYTHING bad happens because of me!

[Taernath]

I can't believe you got Allerelli kicked off the wiki so you could get a couple of bucks.

Poor Allerelilie

WHIRLIN Y U DO DIS

[AnOrdim]

If she helped me remove them and get that set up in the first place,
a) why would she allow them to be put back on, and (b) why would I hurt her after she helped me?

The narration at Ordimuphisownassworld is truly spectacular. Apparently I'm a supervillian and EVERYTHING bad happens because of me!

The story of Whirlin - I'm so special and its okay that I get special treatment because of previously stated specialty.


I wonder where they would draw the line on that. Plenty of people contribute lots of stuff to the wiki, who is to say what is important and what is not? Apparently you've proven my point, you were dictated as special enough to warrant special treatment. Which opens up the question of just how far that extends.

[AnOrdim]

Should the people who post storyline updates on the forums and on the wiki be allowed to lock that behind paywalls that benefit themselves?

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Should the people who post storyline updates on the forums and on the wiki be allowed to lock that behind paywalls that benefit themselves?

Yes

[Whirlin]

The story of Whirlin - I'm so special and its okay that I get special treatment because of previously stated specialty.


I wonder where they would draw the line on that. Plenty of people contribute lots of stuff to the wiki, who is to say what is important and what is not? Apparently you've proven my point, you were dictated as special enough to warrant special treatment. Which opens up the question of just how far that extends.

A majority of their articles are collaborative. Mine were not. Can you provide a list of non-collaborative articles that were asked to be taken down, or is this just Ordimuphisownassworld?

[Whirlin]

Why the fuck wouldn't I get your sorry ass banned if I was this all powerful Supervillain? I liked Allereli while you're a worthless piece of shit.

[Fortybox]

I got a year-long ban for a forums post, so v0v.

If you were in HoA you'd have only gotten a warning.