Enchant Essence

[2Sage]

Is hunting mainly with 519 a bad way to gather essence? I only got 16000 over a 2 week period so I'm getting half the cap. Probably about 12 hours play time a week. I just happened across someone on the officials saying they maxed in under 6 hours using 515/901. I'm already canceled so I can't try right now but do you think I'll see a substantial increase if I switch to mainly bolts? Not 515/901 as I find that annoying, but maybe the new 903?

I have no water lore but I have the other skills and lores that help. The char is capped so stats are fine. So its not that unless water really matters that much.

I would only seem to absorb for a few pulses after hunting. By the time I'd be down to about numb it was over. That seems pretty lame, no? Where is everyone else at with all this?

Also, I am not really following the pour/channel cycle and average time per cycle thing. I thought it was +1 at a time now so how is any one step of 1x to 2x etc ever more or less than 5?

[Winter]

I have a few wizards so I'm able to test a few builds and as far as I can tell Harness power is the largest factor in collection speed. I fix skilled a capped wiz from 100 harness power 81 water/22 fire 200 EMC to 250 harness power 22 fire and 30 water 200 EMC and collection time was almost cut in half. That wiz went from 23 x15 minute hunts to 13x 15 minute hunts rapidfiring steam/major shock under both builds.

A Lvl 100 wiz with 3x harness power, 202 EMC, 143 water, 22 fire and 5 air rapid firing major shock takes 12x 15 minute hunts to reach cap.

Collection time is currently pretty rough for anyone under 100 imo, if they changed creature kills to grant absorbed essence instead of granting bonus static into your unabsorbed pool it would put collection time closer to that of sorcerors.

[drumpel]

Uphunting helps, too.

I went from hunting my level 72 wizard of like around level creatures to hunting 4-5 levels over and it helped a bit. Cut down his weekly max time by 2-3 hours. With uphunting 4-5 levels, it usually takes about 10 hours for him to max his weekly essence. This wizard in particular, he only hunts with 917 and 502

Skills are:
EMC - 78 ranks
EL:A - 89 ranks
EL:W - 59 ranks

Currently as is, this is a giant step forward over how the essence gathering was first pushed out upon wizards. I had hunted him the first week of the release, over 40 hours, and he just reached the ability to do a +25 enchant (4800 essence). If left unchanged means I would have had to put in around 125 hours of hunting a week to max his weekly essence.....

Thankfully it's a lot better now, but we're still at the mercy of however the GMs are going to fuck us over. Last I heard, they felt we could max too fast and they wanted to tweak it more and make one final corrective update to how the new enchant will work....but, it's been what, 3+ months now since they said that.

[Methais]

Is hunting mainly with 519 a bad way to gather essence? I only got 16000 over a 2 week period so I'm getting half the cap. Probably about 12 hours play time a week. I just happened across someone on the officials saying they maxed in under 6 hours using 515/901. I'm already canceled so I can't try right now but do you think I'll see a substantial increase if I switch to mainly bolts? Not 515/901 as I find that annoying, but maybe the new 903?

I have no water lore but I have the other skills and lores that help. The char is capped so stats are fine. So its not that unless water really matters that much.

I would only seem to absorb for a few pulses after hunting. By the time I'd be down to about numb it was over. That seems pretty lame, no? Where is everyone else at with all this?

Also, I am not really following the pour/channel cycle and average time per cycle thing. I thought it was +1 at a time now so how is any one step of 1x to 2x etc ever more or less than 5?

The biggest factor is just killing like leveled things. I'm pretty sure mana spent doesn't matter at all anymore. Or if it does, it's trivial and not worth giving a shit about.

[Maerit]

Don't worry about spending more mana. Just hunt and kill. It will take you around 1000-1200 kills of like-level to get the essence maxed per week. Warcamps, Reim, and any other area where you can hunt swarms will help speed it up.

[Winter]

The biggest factor is just killing like leveled things..

For static collection that's the biggest factor but there's a cap on the amount of static you can hold and a cap on the amount of essence you get per pulse and both are modified massively by skills. The difference in collection time for a capped Wizard and lvl 35 wizard is absolutely enormous.

[Methais]

For static collection that's the biggest factor but there's a cap on the amount of static you can hold and a cap on the amount of essence you get per pulse and both are modified massively by skills. The difference in collection time for a capped Wizard and lvl 35 wizard is absolutely enormous.

Lores play a factor, but mana spent having 0 impact anymore though was my main point.

[drumpel]

Finally changed my younger wizard over to the new enchanting system.

I spent almost all my essence on a couple of items and I was left with 200-300 essence (do +3 enchant).

I went out, killed 4 creatures and on my pulse I had between 300-400 essence (do +4 enchant).
Continued to kill 3 more creatures and on my pulse I had between 400-500 essence (do +5 enchant).
Decided to rest for the hell of it instead of pressing on. Secondary pulse for any essence that may have carried over left me still between 400-500 essence (do +5 enchant).
Went back out, killed 1 creature and rested for pulse - now I have between 500-600 essence (do +6 enchant).
Continued on with my hunt and mowed through another 12 creatures over 4-5 pulses and now I have between 1000-1100 essence (do +11 enchant).

It feels like with my current level 73 wizard and his hunting level 74 creatures, he's getting around 100 essence for every 4 kills.
Skills:
Elemental Mana Control.............| 180 80
Harness Power......................| 228 128
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 189 89
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 161 61

Just thought I'd share.

[Izzy]

Anyone know if/how group hunting affects essence generation? Is getting the killing blow important, or is being involved in the kill sufficient?

[drumpel]

Anyone know if/how group hunting affects essence generation? Is getting the killing blow important, or is being involved in the kill sufficient?

Quoted from Naos post ( http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Professions/Wizard/view/1086 ):

Wizards will find that slaying a creature of an appropriate level will contribute to the total mana spent against that creature as if they had spent mana casting spells. The amount is dependent on the relative level of the creature to the player. Mana spent casting offensive spells at these same creatures will contribute to the total mana spent against that creature as a bonus on top of the contribution for slaying the creature. If the player's contribution to killing a particular creature is less than half of all player contribution to that kill there is only a chance that the kill will be eligible in this manner.

So, if you don't do at least 51% of total damage to the creatures, you're not guaranteed to earn essence, but there is some kind of a chance you can.

[Izzy]

Quoted from Naos post ( http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Professions/Wizard/view/1086 ):

Wizards will find that slaying a creature of an appropriate level will contribute to the total mana spent against that creature as if they had spent mana casting spells. The amount is dependent on the relative level of the creature to the player. Mana spent casting offensive spells at these same creatures will contribute to the total mana spent against that creature as a bonus on top of the contribution for slaying the creature. If the player's contribution to killing a particular creature is less than half of all player contribution to that kill there is only a chance that the kill will be eligible in this manner.

So, if you don't do at least 51% of total damage to the creatures, you're not guaranteed to earn essence, but there is some kind of a chance you can.

Aha. Thank you!


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[Razadine]

Been reading this entire thread and wondering what to adjust theses skills to I've got them all 50+ except water. Now from reading that entire thread on the GS boards he says water helps but from what you folks are showing it's not that much of a margin. Here is where i'm at now.
Elemental Mana Control.............| 302 202
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 155 55
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 162 62
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 155 55
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 120 30

This is where i'm thinking to adjust to.

Elemental Mana Control.............| 302 202
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 155 50
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 162 50
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 155 50
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 120 53.

I don't know if the adjustments are even worth it, I do reim twice a week and don't see that much of a mana gain from the mass hunting there. It seems that wizards are being given a shaft on this change. Where as Sorcerers are getting the break. Due to they can over train necro and get more per kill. I know I've ran a high level sorcs from no energy for the week to capped energy in 2 hours just doing one night of reim for ensorcell energy. I think simu needs to level the playing field on that. If you guys look at the chart posted on the thread the amount needed for the higher enchants goes up in large amount once your past 25. So capping us at 16000 a week still takes us longer than a sorcerer does to getting there T5 level of energy. Has anybody noticed that since the change. They followed the same idea for Ensorcell but just made it longer for Wizards?

[Winter]

.Has anybody noticed that since the change. They followed the same idea for Ensorcell but just made it longer for Wizards?

If you're not capped with 202 emc and lore it takes a heck of alot longer. I remember Wyrom stating that the average log on time for characters was only an hour a week, if this is true then the enchanting changes were made for handful of people.

[Razadine]

If you're not capped with 202 emc and lore it takes a heck of alot longer. I remember Wyrom stating that the average log on time for characters was only an hour a week, if this is true then the enchanting changes were made for handful of people.

Forgot to include harness power which is capped along with EMC. My mistake. So don't get what i'm missing for the average of 2 hours a week to cap out for weekly static :) Water lore to low maybe?

[Maerit]

Forgot to include harness power which is capped along with EMC. My mistake. So don't get what i'm missing for the average of 2 hours a week to cap out for weekly static :) Water lore to low maybe?

That average is wrong. It takes closer to 12 hours to cap energy if you're solo hunting. What you can do to speed it up is join an HoA Reim run, or find a group clearing warcamps. I hunt the swarms in SoS, and it goes a little faster than just bounty hunting nelemar

Also, the undead arena in EG is wonderful. Capped me in about 50 runs, but that's like 1.2mil silver cost at the current seashell conversion rates, so if you doubt end up with a ring it's a bit disappointing.

Also keep in mind this is hunting way past fried, and only stopping when you are totally tapped of mana. The biggest advantage the super post cap wizards have is the 3x HP. They can hunt for 2 hours straight. That's why the arenas is so fast. Non stop hunting since it refills your mana after every clear.

[Hightower]

That average is wrong. It takes closer to 12 hours to cap energy if you're solo hunting. What you can do to speed it up is join an HoA Reim run, or find a group clearing warcamps. I hunt the swarms in SoS, and it goes a little faster than just bounty hunting nelemar

Also, the undead arena in EG is wonderful. Capped me in about 50 runs, but that's like 1.2mil silver cost at the current seashell conversion rates, so if you doubt end up with a ring it's a bit disappointing.

Also keep in mind this is hunting way past fried, and only stopping when you are totally tapped of mana. The biggest advantage the super post cap wizards have is the 3x HP. They can hunt for 2 hours straight. That's why the arenas is so fast. Non stop hunting since it refills your mana after every clear.

There's something else at play here. Hunting like that for 12 hours would result in a massive amount of kills, yet I usually cap out my essence before my weekly Lumnis gift wears off without changing my behavior at all. That means taking the bounties I would normally take and not hunting for as many kills as I can get before resting. There's some sort of "speed limit" at play here, perhaps linked to experience absorption such that you can actually gain less essence by staying out killing more enemies than if you were to hunt normally and then rest.

If it helps, I have all relevant magical skills maxxed and only 11 ranks in water lore.

~Taverkin

[Maerit]

There's something else at play here. Hunting like that for 12 hours would result in a massive amount of kills, yet I usually cap out my essence before my weekly Lumnis gift wears off without changing my behavior at all. That means taking the bounties I would normally take and not hunting for as many kills as I can get before resting. There's some sort of "speed limit" at play here, perhaps linked to experience absorption such that you can actually gain less essence by staying out killing more enemies than if you were to hunt normally and then rest.

If it helps, I have all relevant magical skills maxxed and only 11 ranks in water lore.

~Taverkin

If you're 3x in HP, you're going to be getting a ton of essence per pulse compared to your normal 1x HP wizard.

[Winter]

There's some sort of "speed limit" at play here

There's a cap on how much you get per pulse so it doesn't matter if you kill 20 or 200 same level creatures inbetween a pulse. Sorcerors have no cap hence the massive difference in collection time between lower lvl sorc and wizards.

[kutter]

I see so many people comparing ensorcel to enchant and I do not think that is a fair comparison. With an enchant you get the benefit of it every single time, but with ensorcels it can be any number of things and it is only every 7th cast/attack on average. For these reasons I think it should be more difficult to enchant and the cost should not be compared to ensorcel, it should be a lot more. The problem is that the market was flush with all the pocket enchanters so everyone go used to cheap enchants. This is the new normal, I doubt I would sell my weeks essence for less than 2-2.5 million. If people do not want to pay that then I will work on my and my friends stuff.

With my 95th level classic bolt trained wizard it takes me about 10-12 hours to max out for the week, and that is plowing through OTF pretty steadily. I would think that is normal since he is not built as an enchanter but as a hunter. I am sure it will get better when he caps around Christmas.

[drumpel]

Without them giving us exact numbers to see, we have to play a horrific guessing game with what info we have been given.

I can cap my weekly essence on my now level 74 wizard in 10-11 hours. See post #8 for what I found out while hunting him.

Wizards are capped at how much essence they can hold and how much you can actually absorb (but we're not given any kind of actual numbers) - this fluctuates with a few skills that we're told (EMC/HP/EL:W), but we're not told by how much.

If I can hunt like level creatures and after killing 4 or 5 (I don't see an increase in essence gain killing over 5) n pulse, I tend to pull in around 100 essence (or just a bit over). It's easy for me to say 4-5 like level kills (solo hunting, so I get the max essence per kill I can) equals 100 essence.

Each pulse = 100 essence @ 4-5 kills
16,000 essence max a week
160 pulses x 4 or 5 kills means 640-800 creatures total.

I can usually run around for 15 minutes leeching, gaining mana pulses and utilizing sign of wracking before I have to rest to recoup my spirit back. If I can keep on the 4-5 kills a pulse that means for around 15 minutes I can usually hit that without issues - so 7-8 pulses means 700-800 essence during a hunt. Then I also get some essence carried over to a second pulse after I finish (EL:A) hunting, so I can easily say 750-850 essence after a complete hunt.

Around 12-15 minutes to recoup mana/spirit and head out for another 15 minute hunt. So easily 2 an hour for him at this rate.
Anywhere from 1500 to 1700 essence an hour
So, that's around 10-11 hours of hunting.

As for my level 55 sorcerer that's 1x in Necro and with hunting creatures 3-5 levels under him it takes him 10-12 hours to max his weekly energy. I just blast the crap out of things until I can't wrack anymore, then go rest for 10-12 minutes and repeat. Each hunt takes around 10-15 minutes.

Right now they're pretty even in time, but my wizard has sunk more TPs and gone through more levels to achieve that parity with my sorcerer. If I were to hunt like level with my sorcerer, I'm sure I could cut his time needed to max his necro energy by 2-3 hours. As for ensorcell, I much more enjoy the bonus of reducing CvA on armor and shields. A sword/board user can get a +20 to their TD having a T5 armor and shield. That's generally leaps and bounds better over netting an extra +20 DS, in my opinion.

I'd rather have a 4x, T5 armor and shield over a 6x armor and 6x shield.

+20 DS can easily be picked up by almost anyone if they're already not using a small statue or don't normally have 103 cast on them or find a scroll/imbeddable that has 601/202/1204/507 and I'm sure there are some more that I can't think of off the top of my head. There's just something about the added TD protection that's a lot more valuable to me over a few DS points. The added bonus 735 adds to a weapon is nice, but not needed.

If you ask me, 735 is more beneficial on a mechanical stand point for my needs on armor and shields. Enchant, while nice, isn't really needed.