Spring spectacular: 925?

[rolfard]

Spell 925, Enchant Item has been reworked! Say goodbye to your temper potions and forget the days of waiting, this new spell will immediately increase the bonus of a piece of gear by 1 on a successful attempt! However, such speed and ease requires more magical oomph, and that comes in the form of essence. Wizards will find that they can now SENSE how much essence they have accumulated and how strong of an enchantment that will allow them to complete.

Essence is gathered by spending mana when casting offensive spells at enemies of an appropriate level for the caster to earn experience by killing them. Offensive spells generally include anything you can't cast in a sanctuary. Each cast generates a sort of magical static which clings to the caster; being well trained in Elemental Mana Control helps a Wizard gather more static. On a mana pulse, a portion of that static is absorbed as essence for enchanting; being well trained in Harness Power and Elemental Lore: Water increases the maximum amount of essence that can be absorbed this way. Any unabsorbed static is generally lost, but if the Wizard is trained in Elemental Lore: Air a portion will carry over to the next mana pulse. Wizards trained in Elemental Lore: Fire will find their spell casting yields additional essence on average.

Casting spell 925 will allow a Wizard to evaluate their chance to successfully enchant the targeted item. This will prompt the caster to CHANNEL the spell to make a proper attempt. On a successful attempt, the bonus of the item is increased by 1. On a failed attempt the Wizard loses 10% of the essence the attempt would have cost if it had succeeded.

The essence costs for each cast follow a simple pattern. If the current bonus of the item is less than 25, the cost is 100 essence per point of bonus. If the current bonus of the item is 25 or higher, the cost is 2400 essence plus 2400 per point above 24. This is the cost to increase the bonus of the item by 1 point. e.g. from +24 to +25 costs 2400 essence; from +49 to +50 costs 62400 essence; from +0 to +1 costs zero essence. The amount of essence a Wizard can gather and store is capped weekly at 16000 and overal at 64000.

While tempering items is a thing of the past, potions still play a role with the new Enchant spell. The enchanting potential of an item must be unlocked before any casts of the spell will be successful. New common potions are available in Wizard Guild shops which cover the range of enchanting up through +35; enchanting beyond this will still require the use of rare potions.

The new enchanting potions increase the maximum bonus to which that item may be enchanted with this spell. As an example, a 0x item has a maximum bonus of +0. Pouring an undiluted green ayan'eth potion on this item will increase its maximum enchantable bonus by 5 points to +5; this particular potion can unlock an item up to a maximum of +20 so it could be poured three more times on that same item to do that, increasing the maximum by 5 per dose. Casting Elemental Detection (405) at a potion will give you details about what its effect will be if you know the Enchant (925) spell.

For more information about this release and details about what is happening with the old enchanting system and related topics see the follow up post.

--
Naos

This message was originally posted in Professions, Wizard. To discuss the above, follow the link below.

http://forums.play.net/forums/19/330/3381/view/761

You have accumulated sufficient essence to complete the first cast of a first tier enchantment.


"You have accumulated sufficient essence to complete the second cast of a first tier enchantment."

[Taernath]

Essence is gathered by spending mana when casting offensive spells at enemies of an appropriate level for the caster to earn experience by killing them. Offensive spells generally include anything you can't cast in a sanctuary.

Makes more sense than that bard lore bullshit, at least.

Overall looks pretty good, but I was never a hardcore enchanter, so...

[rolfard]

LeafiaraToday at 1:48 PM
* Enchant now happens instantly
* Enchant now goes in +1 rather than +5 increments
* Can SENSE to see how much essence you have
* Essence is gathered by casting offensive spells at like-level enemies, built by "static" from the cast; you gather more static with Elemental Mana Control, then absorb it on mana pulses, absorbing a greater amount with Harness Power and Water lore; unabsorbed static is lost, but a portion can carry over to another pulse with Air lore; Fire lore on average grants more essence per cast
* CAST 925 to see success rate of enchantng
* CHANNEL to make the attempt; on a failed attempt, you lose 10% of the essence a success would have cost
* "Enchanting potential" is unlocked via new enchanting potions; the potions needed for up to +35 are available in the wizard guild, while enchanting higher still needs rare potions; the enchanting potions "unlock" the maximum enchant an item can have, detectable by Elemental Detection (405) if you know Enchant (925)

[Methais]

Figured this happens before I get to use the 38472188 max infused mirtokh potions I’ve been building up.

Good to see bot enchanters get wrecked and making you have to actually leave the table and go hunt though.

[AnOrdim]

You can DRINK your infused potions to earn back the mana points as essence.

Pretty solid change, looking forward to using it.
Some other things to note - 8x enchanting flaring/sanct/enhancive items is now possible with the high end enchanting pots since you dont need a pre-temper.

[Vishnell]

Does this mean that acuity flares can be enchanted now?

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

[Roiken]

lots of stuff with weird enchantments are gonna be popping up here is my +31 handaxe

[Astray]

* Essence is gathered by casting offensive spells at like-level enemies, built by "static" from the cast

Just rub your feet on the carpet for a while and you'll gather enough static to enchant something to +999

[Fortybox]

Discord is going nuts. So much salty tears over this.

Agree with the wizard bot nerf.

[Gelston]

Bye bye pocket enchanters.

[Derex]

seems like they just want to force people into more subs.

now just be more afk hunting so technically still "bot enchanters"

[Gelston]

seems like they just want to force people into more subs.

now just be more afk hunting so technically still "bot enchanters"

I'd think it would lessen subs. Gotta retrain those wizards with 303 wiz ranks to be able to hunt now, so no need for that old spellup wiz anymore, since your enchanter will be able to do both now.

[Merzbow]

Does this mean that acuity flares can be enchanted now?

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

The rumor is yes... this is a huge plus since I can happily apply an acuity cert on my project at next DR without agonizing over putting a halt to player enchanting.

[Derex]

I'd think it would lessen subs. Gotta retrain those wizards with 303 wiz ranks to be able to hunt now, so no need for that old spellup wiz anymore, since your enchanter will be able to do both now.

im thinking more unique account subs 15$ not 2.50$

becuz you have to hunt to enchant now.

[Fallen]

Glad to see the spell get modernized.

[Tgo01]

No seed?!

[Donquix]

No seed?!

2 seeds


Training Elemental Lore: Air allows the player to retain 20 + (Seed 5 Summation of Ranks) * 5 percent of remaining static essence that would have been lost.

Training Elemental Lore: Fire allows the player to gain bonus static essence equal to (Seed 5 Summation of Ranks) + 4 percent on a mana pulse.

[Donquix]

but this does seem like, super awkwardly rushed out.

- the month long time doesn't seem like enough of a grace for long running old projects
- the complete fuck you with drinking infused pots being complete lost time, if you can't use them in the next 28 days as it really gains you exactly 0 to drink them if it can't exceed the normal weekly limit of essence gain
- naos apparently didn't even realize that the elemental pretemper potions could be infused, has nothing implemented to deal with that (lol wut), said will get that fixed
- doesn't really work for war mages, as it stands (said he is working on that as an oversight, but still)
- theres been some really weird reads on difficulty. says things should be easier and they read as harder, people reporting difficulty reads changing between casts with no other factors changing, tells us encumbrance isn't a factor but someone easily overloaded themselves and changed a read
- really nerfs forging with sub 4x weapons, now that might be a fine change to make with the system but it SEEMS unintended which just makes me question the other shortcomings here
- the new system is in...but like, not in? some potions aren't added, drinking infused pots gave people 0 mana so people potentially reading this then losing charges, you have to do some bullshit to fully utilze a totally infused 7 pour potion, or you just lose what you should get....just, weird not quite done stuff

[Fallen]

Seems weird they wouldn't use the test server to let this big ass system marinate for a month, then roll it over with another one month grace period for old style enchants. Kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

[Menos]

Hunting to fried in OTF or running a bandit task netted my guy (level 100, 95 water lore, 1x EMC, 2x HP) a whopping 100 essence each. Only need to run 160 hunts a week at that pace to keep enchanting at the same rate as before.

[Viekn]

Hunting to fried in OTF or running a bandit task netted my guy (level 100, 95 water lore, 1x EMC, 2x HP) a whopping 100 essence each. Only need to run 160 hunts a week at that pace to keep enchanting at the same rate as before.

You post that on the officials yet so the powers that be can make sure it's behaving as intended?

[Menos]

I mentioned it on discord where Naos responded with these gems.

Naos ��: I did some scripting tests where I had unlimited mana and stuff like that and I was able to get to the cap in 8 hours (about 1k essence every 30 minutes) spending about 15 mana per cast.
Naos ��: I honestly don't know what sort of lore setup I had during that test.
Naos ��: Average hunting won't (not should it) get you to the cap.

Evarin: Are we calling 12-15 hours of hunting average, Naos?

Naos ��: Average is highly subjective.

[Derex]

I mentioned it on discord where Naos responded with these gems.

Naos ��: I did some scripting tests where I had unlimited mana and stuff like that and I was able to get to the cap in 8 hours (about 1k essence every 30 minutes) spending about 15 mana per cast.
Naos ��: I honestly don't know what sort of lore setup I had during that test.
Naos ��: Average hunting won't (not should it) get you to the cap.

Evarin: Are we calling 12-15 hours of hunting average, Naos?

Naos ��: Average is highly subjective.

Lol so why did he even reply? Just to look dumb?

[Avaia]

:lol2:

Just when my Wizard was getting to a decent enough level to be a reliable "pocket" enchanter for basic stuff up to 6x.

[Gelston]

Seems like they are playing off a buff as a nerf. I mean, the instant stuff is cool, but they made it so fucking PITA to do it, it is an overall nerf. They should just leave both systems in place.

[bunnymustdie]

They should just leave both systems in place.

This would be good. This way the power hunters would be able to enchant quickly and immediately, and lazy people or people enchanting small jobs up to 4x be able to stick with the old system.

[Taernath]

Getting people out and hunting via grindy resource generation is a bid to up player engagement numbers.

[bunnymustdie]

Getting people out and hunting via grindy resource generation is a bid to up player engagement numbers.

Good intention, but realistically we'll just see a lot more bigshot wizards out there :S

[Fortybox]

Seems like they are playing off a buff as a nerf. I mean, the instant stuff is cool, but they made it so fucking PITA to do it, it is an overall nerf. They should just leave both systems in place.

Your tears are delicious.

The new system is great. Wizards who actually play and actually hunt should get rewarded.

[AnOrdim]

Being able to enchant all of the previously unenchantable flares without pre-temper potions, instant benefits without the chance to lock or lose major amounts of time. It's a pretty clear upgrade for everyone but warmages and pocket enchanters.

[Gelston]

Your tears are delicious.

The new system is great. Wizards who actually play and actually hunt should get rewarded.

My tears? What tears? I don't play at all, so I don't really care. Just observations.

[Fortybox]

My tears? What tears? I don't play at all, so I don't really care. Just observations.

Thread: Spring spectacular: 925?
you're gayer than aids

:lol:

[Gelston]

Thread: Spring spectacular: 925?
you're gayer than aids

:lol:

More factual information.

[Fortybox]

More factual information.

I laughed.

[Winter]

Has anything been mentioned about the 5% tempering boost on potions made from alchemy, is that obsolete now?

[Fortybox]

This has been discord all day:

https://media.giphy.com/media/k61nOBRRBMxva/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/5WmyaeDDlmb1m/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/eIPM3j6YXHKXC/giphy.gif

Screw you wizards - the changes are good.

[kutter]

I hunt my wizard, both of them so for me this is not a big deal, but I do think that 12-16 hours to max for the week is excessive, hopefully that will get revised.

[Stumplicker]

Jesus christ. People have been crying since ensorcelling came out that enchanting should get the same treatment. That's..exactly this change, and now people are crying that enchanting isn't the way it used to be. At some point you just have to figure people are just miserable assholes who won't be happy with anything.

[Viekn]

At some point you just have to figure people are just miserable assholes who won't be happy with anything.

This pretty much describes 99.9% of people in general anyway, so yeah.

[Donquix]

Jesus christ. People have been crying since ensorcelling came out that enchanting should get the same treatment. That's..exactly this change, and now people are crying that enchanting isn't the way it used to be. At some point you just have to figure people are just miserable assholes who won't be happy with anything.

If you actually play the game as anything other than a cyber room, it's a clear upgrade. Obviously, people who never hunt out of being a pocket enchanter or just don't care and RP, but still want to do the wizarding, are going to get the shaft. I don't really give a shit about pocket enchanters gettin fucked, but people who either have very limited play time or just don't hunt much I feel for and they have every right to be upset. There's not a good answer for them.

But they're just being annoyingly obtuse with the numbers. Most of the complaints could be answered or at least more intelligently discussed if we knew wtf was going on but it's like uh....i dunno, i get some percent of mana spent? and that mana spent goes into like a temp bucket then i get it in a real bucket? but i don't really know how much, or anything. Versus ensorcell is like "kill 1000 things. if you get a lot of necro lore kill like, 500 things. ok cool."

[kutter]

But they're just being annoyingly obtuse with the numbers. Most of the complaints could be answered or at least more intelligently discussed if we knew wtf was going on but it's like uh....i dunno, i get some percent of mana spent? and that mana spent goes into like a temp bucket then i get it in a real bucket? but i don't really know how much, or anything. Versus ensorcell is like "kill 1000 things. if you get a lot of necro lore kill like, 500 things. ok cool."

This is exactly what I was thinking. Do sorcs have to have all kind of lores to use ensorcel, I honestly don't know, my sorc is only 25 and I NEVER play him.

My 82 wizard is a classic bolter with some air, water, and fire lore, so I suspect he will be ok, maybe not a perfect enchanter but he is not built for that. My other 61 wizard is UAC, so I guess I have 2 questions. Will we be able to work on more than one major per account now, because with it being instant, it seems like it and if I just e-wave before I use UAC does that get me credit for the system?

Reading in the officials, I am ok, I guess with the changes, except the whole, using higher mana requirement spells nets more essence. Why the hell does this matter? Dead critter is dead critter, or do we want to encourage a bunch of people casting meteor swarm in a hunting area?

[gilchristr]

Lumnis was invented to allow "casual" players to keep up with the more hardcore, and it was a good implementation. The simple solution to the grind aspect here is to allow the lumnis multiplier to work on the essence stuff for enchanting, and the necrojuice too.

[Maerit]

It's a moderately good solution. They could have rolled it out better though. Announce it, give it a date when it will be released, let players ask tons of these questions like "what about warmages", so they can flush out some of the obvious problems that QC should have caught, and let players finish their projects. Something like this probably could have benefited from a 3-month roll-out strategy instead of:

Here's a new 925 everyone! Too bad if you're in the middle of a 10x, and can't finish it in time, or you're a warmage we totally forgot about that large % of the wizard community...

Once the dust settles months from now, it will be a massive improvement on the previously antiquated 925 system. Until then, everyone who is currently working on an enchant is going to be in a bit of a frenzy trying to understand how this will screw them.

[Donquix]

This is exactly what I was thinking. Do sorcs have to have all kind of lores to use ensorcel, I honestly don't know, my sorc is only 25 and I NEVER play him.

My 82 wizard is a classic bolter with some air, water, and fire lore, so I suspect he will be ok, maybe not a perfect enchanter but he is not built for that. My other 61 wizard is UAC, so I guess I have 2 questions. Will we be able to work on more than one major per account now, because with it being instant, it seems like it and if I just e-wave before I use UAC does that get me credit for the system?

Reading in the officials, I am ok, I guess with the changes, except the whole, using higher mana requirement spells nets more essence. Why the hell does this matter? Dead critter is dead critter, or do we want to encourage a bunch of people casting meteor swarm in a hunting area?

There are no more "slots". You accrue enough energy to do a +1 enchant of a certain tier, you cast it, and you're done. It's pretty cheap until +25, then it starts getting much more expensive per point. By the time you get close to 6x you can't do a full +5 enchant anymore, even if your bank is full (64,000, or 4 weeks of capping your gainz). But before that someone could pay you for all your juice, you can take the item, channel 5 times and done. Around 6x the most a single person could do with a max bank is +3 at a time.

Ensorcell is based around same level kills. You kill something == your level, you get a X amount of juice, goes up a little for higher level stuff, down a little for lower level stuff similar to exp per kill. If you train necro lore, you get +x bonus per kill. It's really simple, and dead easy to track. Murderverses (the new bard thing) are you have a CHANCE to earn your point for the week on every kill, that chance continues to go up as you kill things until it effectively becomes 100%. A little dumb, but it's straight forward: kill shit until you get the point, might need to kill a lot, might be lucky. if you kill X (i think it's 750 things now?) you'll for sure get it.

[kutter]

There are no more "slots". You accrue enough energy to do a +1 enchant of a certain tier, you cast it, and you're done. It's pretty cheap until +25, then it starts getting much more expensive per point. By the time you get close to 6x you can't do a full +5 enchant anymore, even if your bank is full (64,000, or 4 weeks of capping your gainz). But before that someone could pay you for all your juice, you can take the item, channel 5 times and done. Around 6x the most a single person could do with a max bank is +3 at a time.

Ensorcell is based around same level kills. You kill something == your level, you get a X amount of juice, goes up a little for higher level stuff, down a little for lower level stuff similar to exp per kill. If you train necro lore, you get +x bonus per kill. It's really simple, and dead easy to track. Murderverses (the new bard thing) are you have a CHANCE to earn your point for the week on every kill, that chance continues to go up as you kill things until it effectively becomes 100%. A little dumb, but it's straight forward: kill shit until you get the point, might need to kill a lot, might be lucky. if you kill X (i think it's 750 things now?) you'll for sure get it.

From what I am seeing, it seems you can now do a 5X in two weeks, and 6X in about 5 and that seems to be total time, not each enchant, at least that is what the math seems to say on the officials, but that might be for a capped mage with all the appropriate lores to maximize their essence earning/retention. I just don't understand why they had to make such a convoluted system instead of something more like ensorcell, that being said, I feel for all the pocket enchanters, because this will destroy them, but it does seem like an improvement, even if it will have some growing pains.

I am not overly concerned about enchanting with my warmage, he is not built to enchant at all, so I doubt he would have the skill to do much over a 5 or maybe a 6 at most.

I would have preferred for them to have done a better job of advance notice of the rollout and a smoother transition. It seems that they have not even put the finishing touches on it but brought it out.

[nocturnix]

Wow, i just woke up to this. Guess im a little late to the party. But HELL YAH, i'm really stoked about this update. What is it fucking christmas this month?

That said, I only see:


You study your surroundings and use your keen knowledge of the arcane. It quickly becomes evident that this area is not a magical workshop.

You do not detect the distinct harmonies of a mana pool.
You have accumulated sufficient essence to complete the first cast of a second tier enchantment.


You have reached the maximum (10,000) mana points allowed in your weekly mana pool accumulation, and have a total of 1346 mana points stored in your personal mana pool.


The update speaks of specific amount of essence needed for enchants, i did not see any mention of "tiers". How am I to interpret the essence amount? Also what are mana points going to be used for moving forward? Or is that essence now?

[Winter]

I would have preferred for them to have done a better job of advance notice of the rollout and a smoother transition. It seems that they have not even put the finishing touches on it but brought it out.

Judging from the answers from the GMs on the board and discoord, I have a feeling that this was being worked on for a while but then suddenly rushed out for some reason and I'm not sure why. There are a plethora of issues which both Naos and Estlid didn't pick up on, they both know the game well enough not to miss such huge oversights.

[Gelston]

Judging from the answers from the GMs on the board and discoord, I have a feeling that this was being worked on for a while but then suddenly rushed out for some reason and I'm not sure why. There are a plethora of issues which both Naos and Estlid didn't pick up on, they both know the game well enough not to miss such huge oversights.

Probably a deadline to get it out during this Spectacular Event thing. Fixing things after release is a standard for the gaming industry now anyways.

[Maerit]

Wonder if you can enchant veil iron now.

[Methais]

- naos apparently didn't even realize that the elemental pretemper potions could be infused, has nothing implemented to deal with that (lol wut), said will get that fixed

That's hilarious not only because Naos had no idea about it, but also because everyone involved in the approval process missed it too. Probably because none of them play wizards.


- doesn't really work for war mages, as it stands (said he is working on that as an oversight, but still)

:lol:

Idiots.

I just wish they'd add some numbers to SENSE instead of making shit so vague. Nobody's wanted to deal with vague bullshit since like 2002.

[Methais]

Your tears are delicious.

The new system is great. Wizards who actually play and actually hunt should get rewarded.

I agree, but unless I'm missing something, it also looks like it's going to be annoying as fuck the way it's set up. With Ensorcell you just go out and kill a bunch of stuff until you hit your weekly cap afaik. With this system it seems like you have to go out, bukkake your mana load on a critter(s), wait a pulse, do it again, wait a pulse, do it again, x48732043249023.

It's probably a buff for me since if I'm logged in I'm probably hunting and don't give a shit about exp, but for the average player it sounds like a huge nerf due to it being mana pulse based instead of just kill based.

Having some actual numbers to be able to figure out how much essence your kills are going to be worth would be nice too.

[Roiken]

With Ensorcell you can just go do a reim, make sure you tag everything and get energy quickly.. like Methais said a wizard (not that a strong enchanting wizard is) cant just be 1x or 1.5x hp...better get to 3x... and cant steam bolt you'd need to run though every mana intensive spell you have to get your rocks off for the week...well and do it solo because a group hunt would kill shit giving you less chance to burn that mana.

[Stumplicker]

With Ensorcell you can just go do a reim, make sure you tag everything and get energy quickly.. like Methais said a wizard (not that a strong enchanting wizard is) cant just be 1x or 1.5x hp...better get to 3x... and cant steam bolt you'd need to run though every mana intensive spell you have to get your rocks off for the week...well and do it solo because a group hunt would kill shit giving you less chance to burn that mana.

Reim is likely one of the reasons that it's designed like that. Blame the giant blob of bots that lag the game twice a week, not the corrective action taken.

If it worked exactly like the ensorcell does, that group would balloon to 60 afk bots and cause even more lag.

Yes, it's a somewhat annoying convoluted system, but the other option is less enticing.

[Donquix]

With Ensorcell you can just go do a reim, make sure you tag everything and get energy quickly.. like Methais said a wizard (not that a strong enchanting wizard is) cant just be 1x or 1.5x hp...better get to 3x... and cant steam bolt you'd need to run though every mana intensive spell you have to get your rocks off for the week...well and do it solo because a group hunt would kill shit giving you less chance to burn that mana.

The thing is we have no idea what the absorption is like WITHOUT lore. If people keep their current builds with 60-70+ water lore, it's seemingly pretty much just spend a bunch of mana and it it doesn't matter how, at a certain point of water lore the bottleneck seems to become your mana regen, as you can absorb juice as fast as you can make it. We also have no idea right now of the effects for NON CAPPED wizards. What's the base formula for EMC generating "static" per cast? no idea. What's non-waterlore formula for Harness Power for converting that to essence? no idea. And those things are INCREDIBLY annoying to test with no way to really track what we're making.

For capped people with normal training, keeping the old waterlore build, you can pretty much j ust spend all your normal mana. If you're finshing hunts with mana left over, kill a few more things, or just dump what you can when you're done spread out a few different creatures. There is a cap on "static" generated for a single creature, under normal hunting you likely won't ever run into it really but if you're just trying to spam shit to fill up your mana, you may (think it's about 100)

[Roiken]

Reim is likely one of the reasons that it's designed like that. Blame the giant blob of bots that lag the game twice a week, not the corrective action taken.

If it worked exactly like the ensorcell does, that group would balloon to 60 afk bots and cause even more lag.

Yes, it's a somewhat annoying convoluted system, but the other option is less enticing.

I highly doubt that group has anything to do with the design because wyrom sucks them off at every chance he gets.. but maybe?

[drumpel]

I don't know what to really say about this change.

So little useful information has been posted to allow folks to fully understand how it all works makes it hard to really judge it all.

One one hand, I have a nearly capped wizard that I don't hunt with. He's kind of active, forging weapons, foraging herbs for folks from time to time, gathering pelts for folks from time to time and doing the rare bounty to actually earn some EXP. He doesn't have any EL:W lore so he doesn't build up a mana pool and he works one a couple of major projects a year (2 or 3 6x projects or a couple 7x projects). Now he won't be able to enchant because he doesn't hunt.....this fucking sucks. What a nice way to fuck over a person that's had the character since before the game moved to the web.

On the second hand I do have a wizard I hunt with, but I have zero ideas of how earning mana/essence even works since literally zero useful information has been given to us about it. How do flaring weapons work now? No pre-temper needed?

[Stumplicker]

I think the first post in this thread needs a F.A.Q. added. Here, I'll start it.

Q. I don't play the game with my wizard and I am mad that I can't enchant now.
A. Good. Also, this isn't a question, which makes you stupid twice.

Q. I don't know anything about this new system that just went in yesterday.
A. I'm sure there won't in the next week or two be a fully fleshed out wiki page for it that explains everything in minute detail. I guess you'd better quit.

[Roiken]

damn, harsh much. Edit: the wiki is being updated afaik.. but as mentioned in the thread nobody thinks this is a finish product.. The most up to date announcements will be found on the discord channel... there is quite a few posts and only a handful worth reading... So just wait for everything to come up from the rain.

[Stumplicker]

damn, harsh much.

I'll be the first one to bitch about new development that requires you to buy simucoins above and beyond the highest subscription model in a game of its genre. This however is development everyone has been begging for since ensorcelling came out, and now many of those same people are doing nothing but crying about how unfair it all is. I have no sympathy.

It's a good change. It's an overdue change. It's a change that doesn't involve a 15th new currency. It will be fleshed out and explained in a wiki page when all the information is properly disseminated. It's designed in a way that discourages botting and encourages actually playing your character. It's designed in a way so you don't have to hand your weapon over to a wizard for months at a time and not use it at all during that period.

There's nothing to bitch about.

[Donquix]

I'll be the first one to bitch about new development that requires you to buy simucoins above and beyond the highest subscription model in a game of its genre. This however is development everyone has been begging for since ensorcelling came out, and now many of those same people are doing nothing but crying about how unfair it all is. I have no sympathy.

It's a good change. It's an overdue change. It's a change that doesn't involve a 15th new currency. It will be fleshed out and explained in a wiki page when all the information is properly disseminated. It's designed in a way that discourages botting and encourages actually playing your character. It's designed in a way so you don't have to hand your weapon over to a wizard for months at a time and not use it at all during that period.

There's nothing to bitch about.

Good luck figuring out even approximate formulas where all the bases aren't given, the scaling number for skills beyond lores aren't given, and there's no way to track progress at all beyond 100+ energy jumps for half the system (essence), and literally no way track the other half of the system (static).

[Roiken]

being realistic most of the formulas have never been straight up handed out.. at least didn't used to be.. it took people like Murrandii doing weird ass canada spread sheets and then someone else saying I found out this instead.

[Donquix]

being realistic most of the formulas have never been straight up handed out.. at least didn't used to be.. it took people like Murrandii doing weird ass canada spread sheets and then someone else saying I found out this instead.

Most of them had pretty accurate measurables where you could change factors and see success rates change, and didn't have multiple unknown layers (mana spent -> static, static -> essence, static carry over from air lore since you can't know how much static you had)

COULD you figure something out? Sure, i said pain in the ass not impossible. I just see no reason to obfuscate the system this much. People are already freaking out that they are <gasp> being forced to play the game, being able to figure out how much they are going to be forced to play the game seems reasonable.

I have a ton of water lore, and don't see myself going under 75 ranks unless something drastic changes, with typical post camp EMC / HP traiing. From testing with that setup others have done and my own experience, I pretty much get everything I spend mana wise so I'm good with it.

[kutter]

It's a good change. It's an overdue change. It's a change that doesn't involve a 15th new currency. It will be fleshed out and explained in a wiki page when all the information is properly disseminated. It's designed in a way that discourages botting and encourages actually playing your character. It's designed in a way so you don't have to hand your weapon over to a wizard for months at a time and not use it at all during that period.

There's nothing to bitch about.

While I do agree that as a whole it is a good change, I am not sure there is nothing to bitch about. This was an exceptionally poorly handled rollout, I will not say I am the most attentive person to stuff like this, but I am hardly the least and I never heard anything about it.

My older wizard is very much a classic bolting mage, and if as a result of that type of build his ability to enchant stays about the same as it was with me hunting his gift every week plus a little extra, which is typical for me now, then I would say, the net gain is zero, but that only applies to someone with a build like mine. My UAC warmage is screwed, he will never enchant again, which is not a huge deal, he was not built for that.

My biggest complaint right now is that in order for the system to work properly I need to go out and use mana intensive spells that will not allow me to finish bounties without taking breaks between hunts. I just cannot for the life of me understand the wisdom of implementing the system that way. I am ok with everything else I have read, but why penalize people that are efficient hunters?

[Methais]

If you actually play the game as anything other than a cyber room, it's a clear upgrade. Obviously, people who never hunt out of being a pocket enchanter or just don't care and RP, but still want to do the wizarding, are going to get the shaft. I don't really give a shit about pocket enchanters gettin fucked, but people who either have very limited play time or just don't hunt much I feel for and they have every right to be upset. There's not a good answer for them.

But they're just being annoyingly obtuse with the numbers. Most of the complaints could be answered or at least more intelligently discussed if we knew wtf was going on but it's like uh....i dunno, i get some percent of mana spent? and that mana spent goes into like a temp bucket then i get it in a real bucket? but i don't really know how much, or anything. Versus ensorcell is like "kill 1000 things. if you get a lot of necro lore kill like, 500 things. ok cool."

This is correct x100000000000000000000000000000000000

[Methais]

Judging from the answers from the GMs on the board and discoord, I have a feeling that this was being worked on for a while but then suddenly rushed out for some reason and I'm not sure why. There are a plethora of issues which both Naos and Estlid didn't pick up on, they both know the game well enough not to miss such huge oversights.

Estild is the last person that should be working on wizards. He's completely out of touch with everything regarding them, and it's been that way since the ELR with pretty much zero improvement, and I have no idea why Coase approves 90% of the shit he comes up with.

Great dev/QA crew we got there.

[Methais]

I'll be the first one to bitch about new development that requires you to buy simucoins above and beyond the highest subscription model in a game of its genre. This however is development everyone has been begging for since ensorcelling came out, and now many of those same people are doing nothing but crying about how unfair it all is. I have no sympathy.

It's a good change. It's an overdue change. It's a change that doesn't involve a 15th new currency. It will be fleshed out and explained in a wiki page when all the information is properly disseminated. It's designed in a way that discourages botting and encourages actually playing your character. It's designed in a way so you don't have to hand your weapon over to a wizard for months at a time and not use it at all during that period.

There's nothing to bitch about.

Can you tell us which people asked for it to be a massively convoluted system where they don't even give out the info needed to understand fully how it works, vs. ensorcell's "kill and forget" method whose bonus is based on 1 lore instead of 3?

The concept isn't bad. But as usual, Simu fails miserably in the execution.

[Roiken]

maining a sorcerer sorta... i'm obligated to say that not only necro goes into 735... that is all.

[Methais]

maining a sorcerer sorta... i'm obligated to say that not only necro goes into 735... that is all.

What else goes into it? The only lore I'm seeing mentioned on the wiki is necro.

[Fortybox]

Can you tell us which people asked for it to be a massively convoluted system where they don't even give out the info needed to understand fully how it works, vs. ensorcell's "kill and forget" method whose bonus is based on 1 lore instead of 3?

The concept isn't bad. But as usual, Simu fails miserably in the execution.

Why should Simu give all the stuff away. Let people discover it.

This was a good change. I’m glad they finally tackled it and think the new system is great. I’ll probably be rolling up a new wizard as a result.

[Fortybox]

What else goes into it? The only lore I'm seeing mentioned on the wiki is necro.


necro lore is a bonus. You don’t have to have it.

[Fortybox]

Also, wizard lores aren’t essential. They aren’t part of success criteria for enchanting. So having a cow over bonuses is dumb.

[Stumplicker]

Can you tell us which people asked for it to be a massively convoluted system where they don't even give out the info needed to understand fully how it works, vs. ensorcell's "kill and forget" method whose bonus is based on 1 lore instead of 3?

The concept isn't bad. But as usual, Simu fails miserably in the execution.

You mean aside from giving an eye to every potential new system as to how easy it is to script it, which I've already said?

Alright. Here's another reasoning:

Like many other decisions, additional complexity in a system is a marketing tactic employed in the video game industry constantly. Quick and easy to master gets boring more quickly than something with a steeper learning curve, and the player gets a sense of accomplishment that keeps them around longer with a more arduous task completion.

Without a wiki and 30 years of accumulated knowledge, a large number of Gemstone's already existing systems fall into this category. Have you ever tried to do the math on whether holding weapons with UAC is worthwhile? Of course you haven't. It's needlessly complex, and someone has already done the math and conveniently placed it on the wiki for you, so that system isn't complex. It's a simple Q. Should I wield weapons with UAC? A. No. Why? Who cares. Math already done.

This system is brand new, and not all the information is disseminated yet to make it simple for everyone to understand. Make no mistake, however. It will get there, and rapidly, like literally every other system the game has ever introduced. No, we don't know the exact spellburst formula. We don't know the exact skinning formula. We don't know the exact redux formula. But through trial and error, educated guessing, and testing, we now have scripts to tell you with 99.9% accuracy how good you are at all of those.

It's not like the OLD system of enchanting was any less complex, what with pouring temper potions and waiting X days and figuring out this or that or infusing potions with these lores or that, and getting naked so your halfling can hold the full plate without encumbrance on a node in a workshop and figuring out what the fuck that messaging meant and oh okay it must be sanctified or whatever, so it needs this other potion too and uh oh, my item got locked, I wonder how that works, maybe I can unenchant it and start over or wait for a merchant to unlock it, alright that's fixed, now just repeat that seven more times and it'll gain an enchant level. In fact, I'd argue that the new system is LESS complex than the old. The reason you don't consider the old complex is because you already know it, and all the info is right there on the wiki if you have a question.

In a month's time, all that info will be updated for this system, which again, is less complex than the old one.

So to re-iterate - No sympathy. My wizard hunted most of yesterday and now he's maxed out on his weekly whatever, so I'll probably be able to enchant something next time I try. Good for him. If I want to know more, I'll wait a couple weeks for the wiki to catch up.

[Fortybox]

You mean aside from giving an eye to every potential new system as to how easy it is to script it, which I've already said?

Alright. Here's another reasoning:

Like many other decisions, additional complexity in a system is a marketing tactic employed in the video game industry constantly. Quick and easy to master gets boring more quickly than something with a steeper learning curve, and the player gets a sense of accomplishment that keeps them around longer with a more arduous task completion.

Without a wiki and 30 years of accumulated knowledge, a large number of Gemstone's already existing systems fall into this category. Have you ever tried to do the math on whether holding weapons with UAC is worthwhile? Of course you haven't. It's needlessly complex, and someone has already done the math and conveniently placed it on the wiki for you, so that system isn't complex. It's a simple Q. Should I wield weapons with UAC? A. No. Why? Who cares. Math already done.

This system is brand new, and not all the information is disseminated yet to make it simple for everyone to understand. Make no mistake, however. It will get there, and rapidly, like literally every other system the game has ever introduced. No, we don't know the exact spellburst formula. We don't know the exact skinning formula. We don't know the exact redux formula. But through trial and error, educated guessing, and testing, we now have scripts to tell you with 99.9% accuracy how good you are at all of those.

It's not like the OLD system of enchanting was any less complex, what with pouring temper potions and waiting X days and figuring out this or that or infusing potions with these lores or that, and getting naked so your halfling can hold the full plate without encumbrance on a node in a workshop and figuring out what the fuck that messaging meant and oh okay it must be sanctified or whatever, so it needs this other potion too and uh oh, my item got locked, I wonder how that works, maybe I can unenchant it and start over or wait for a merchant to unlock it, alright that's fixed, now just repeat that seven more times and it'll gain an enchant level. In fact, I'd argue that the new system is LESS complex than the old. The reason you don't consider the old complex is because you already know it, and all the info is right there on the wiki if you have a question.

In a month's time, all that info will be updated for this system, which again, is less complex than the old one.

So to re-iterate - No sympathy. My wizard hunted most of yesterday and now he's maxed out on his weekly whatever, so I'll probably be able to enchant something next time I try. Good for him. If I want to know more, I'll wait a couple weeks for the wiki to catch up.

OMG too many words as usual but Flimbo is right.

Also LOL at you maximizing in one day. Discord was having a cow about the ability to do that yesterday. Bunch of whiny babies. Simu has a horrible track record but this is one thing they did right.

[Maerit]

Honestly, there's no reason to over-evaluate this system. Some people have been able to get maximum energy in like 7-8 hours of regular hunting. You don't have to try to min-max this new system, just hunt normally, train appropriately, and you get energy. My sorcerer has to hunt for around 10 hours of regular bounty hunting to maximize his necro energy. I could just go sit inside a warcamp, kill everything with a mana battery outside to constantly keep me going, and then in about 4 hours of doing that mindless task accomplish the same goal, but I'm fine spreading 10 hours of hunting out over a week period of time and achieving both more XP and maxing the necro energy gains.

Secondly, warmages are being looked into. They didn't propose an immediate solution, but Naos has already confirmed multiple times on Discord, that they are investigating an appropriate solution to the warmage dilemma, so that is underway.

Wizards who don't hunt are still more valuable than sorcerers who don't hunt... Better spellups, better imbed options, capable of recharging wands and other MRs items (statues, orbs, and treasure generated items of value). While sorcerers who don't hunt really only have scroll infusing options to offer.

[Riltus]

So, I did a small test with a level 45 wizard underhunting 5 levels.

CASTER LEVEL: 45
TARGET LEVEL: 40

Relevant skills:

Harness Power......................| 166 66
Elemental Mana Control.............| 188 88
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 102 24
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 10 2
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 90 20

Note: No Water lore

Normal hunting.

901: 16 casts (16 mana)
904: 94 casts (376 mana)
505: 19 casts (95 mana) Tonis bolt
906: 2 casts (12 mana)
917: 2 casts (34 mana)
_________________________

Total: 133 casts (533 mana expended)

And this was the result:

You have accumulated sufficient essence to complete the first cast of a first tier enchantment.

If the messaging above indicates an accumulation of 100 essence points, then to reach the weekly 16,000 cap would require increasing the casts and mana by a factor of 160 (21,280 casts with a mana expenditure of 85,280) and then another factor of 4 to reach the 64,000 essence maximum cap (85,120 casts with an expenditure of 341,120 mana). If accurate, this seems a tad penal lol. Without any examples from Naos it's difficult to say if these results are the norm or not intended.

Mark

[AnOrdim]

So, I did a small test with a level 45 wizard underhunting 5 levels.

CASTER LEVEL: 45
TARGET LEVEL: 40

Relevant skills:

Harness Power......................| 166 66
Elemental Mana Control.............| 188 88
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 102 24
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 10 2
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 90 20

Note: No Water lore

Normal hunting.

901: 16 casts (16 mana)
904: 94 casts (376 mana)
505: 19 casts (95 mana) Tonis bolt
906: 2 casts (12 mana)
_________________________

Total: 131 casts (499 mana expended)

And this was the result:

You have accumulated sufficient essence to complete the first cast of a first tier enchantment.

If the messaging above indicates an accumulation of 100 essence points then to reach the weekly 16,000 cap would require increasing the casts and mana by a factor of 160 (20,960 casts with a mana expenditure of 79,840) and then another factor of 4 to reach the 64,000 essence maximum cap (83,840 casts with an expenditure of 319,360 mana). If accurate, this seems a tad penal lol. Without any examples from Naos it's difficult to say if these results are the norm or not intended.

Mark

How does the mana use break down in the hunt?

My incredibly rudimentary approach so far has been to radically change how I hunt. I'll go out after a pulse, spam a bunch of spells and wait for the next pulse to absorb "static". Then I go out and burst again. This optimizes my wizzum absorption but goes against the standard "hunt to fried and then rest" approach. It may have been mentioned, but I think using the mana points system that was in place (with tweaks) that worked off EXP absorption combined with the new instant cast system would have been the best case scenario. This new system seems to go against conventional hunting and EXP absorption strategies.

I still like the changes overall, but finding the optimal generation setup/strategy with limited hunting time is going to be interesting. I did manage to get almost a full second cast with about an hour or two of hunting my standard way in sanctum though. Its usually blast a swarm down and instantly fry and rest though. I spend more time sitting around on node absorbing then I do actively hunting during pulses.

[Donquix]

How does the mana use break down in the hunt?

My incredibly rudimentary approach so far has been to radically change how I hunt. I'll go out after a pulse, spam a bunch of spells and wait for the next pulse to absorb "static". Then I go out and burst again. This optimizes my wizzum absorption but goes against the standard "hunt to fried and then rest" approach. It may have been mentioned, but I think using the mana points system that was in place (with tweaks) that worked off EXP absorption combined with the new instant cast system would have been the best case scenario. This new system seems to go against conventional hunting and EXP absorption strategies.

I still like the changes overall, but finding the optimal generation setup/strategy with limited hunting time is going to be interesting. I did manage to get almost a full second cast with about an hour or two of hunting my standard way in sanctum though. Its usually blast a swarm down and instantly fry and rest though. I spend more time sitting around on node absorbing then I do actively hunting during pulses.

It's the lack of water lore that hurts mark's numbers.

<whatever the fuck factors, seemingly EMC and seed fire lore> improve the mana spent to static bank ratio

then <some factor derived from HP> and EL:W Bonus (naos' post just straight says bonus adds) determine how much "static" is absorbed to your essence, which occurs around a mana pulse, but not exactly (i think it happens every 2 minutes, not on the actual mana pulse which is randomized around 2 minutes +/- 30 seconds I recall)

If you have a good amount of water lore, you can basically absorb all the static you can make. With 0 water lore and only 60ish HP, i assume he was wasting most of his mana generated. If the bonus directly increases how much you can keep as it seems it does, 20ish water lore means you can convert 100 mana per pulse. At that point it's effectively as much mana as you can get.

[AnOrdim]

It's the lack of water lore that hurts mark's numbers.

<whatever the fuck factors, seemingly EMC and seed fire lore> improve the mana spent to static bank ratio

then <some factor derived from HP> and EL:W Bonus (naos' post just straight says bonus adds) determine how much "static" is absorbed to your essence, which occurs around a mana pulse, but not exactly (i think it happens every 2 minutes, not on the actual mana pulse which is randomized around 2 minutes +/- 30 seconds I recall)

If you have a good amount of water lore, you can basically absorb all the static you can make. With 0 water lore and only 60ish HP, i assume he was wasting most of his mana generated. If the bonus directly increases how much you can keep as it seems it does, 20ish water lore means you can convert 100 mana per pulse. At that point it's effectively as much mana as you can get.

That was my impression as well. I happen to have a large amount of water lore (reduced from 133 to 100) and had low fire and air. This was "good" for generation under the mana point system but turns out not great for this new system. I was absorbing all the static I was generating but since its per pulse it wasn't fitting very well into my hunting routine. I can go into the sanctum and with a well-placed cast of 950 and a few 917's be fried in two rooms.

I'm not complaining (or at least not trying to), just trying to find a new hunting style that finds a good balance between EXP absorption and wizzum absorption.

[Stumplicker]

Here's an update since yesterday - a change in the messaging from SENSE to make it more clear:

You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +X enchantment.

[Riltus]

How does the mana use break down in the hunt?

There were a total of 35 kills. The gen rate was a bit slow but steady. The character is on lumnis so, consequently, never fried and spent the majority of the time in the field with very little time on node. Also made frequent use of 516 so mana never became an issue. I just wanted to put myself in the place of a casual player not ideally set up for hunting to see how these changes might affect them.

I'm not sure how much the lack of water lore impacted these results. Since I don't discord, I'm not privy to the current discussions. But the results I had are so far afield from anything reasonable I'm concerned that there are going to be major imbalances in essence accumulation from character to character based on hunting styles and level v level factors. We're talking 83k casts to reach 64K essence. It's absurd. And this character isn't poorly trained except for the water lore. He is almost 2x EMC, 1.4x HP and 1x Elemental Lore w/24 air ranks and 20 fire ranks.

Mark

[Methais]

You mean aside from giving an eye to every potential new system as to how easy it is to script it, which I've already said?

People knowing the formula isn't going to decide how easy it is to script it. The scripting part will be the same. The duration of said scripting would on paper be decreased assuming they placed their stats for optimal wizard juice gain which would likely result in less time scripting instead of more since they'd theoretically max out quicker. The scripting argument is pretty much a non-issue anyway. Simu hasn't given a flying fuck about people scripting in forever unless your script is directly fucking over someone else's hunting.


Alright. Here's another reasoning:

Like many other decisions, additional complexity in a system is a marketing tactic employed in the video game industry constantly.

Do you honestly believe Simu knows anything about marketing? Even if that is a real marketing tactic, I can pretty much guarantee that wasn't Simu's intent. They just like to make things vague and unnecessarily convoluted. Otherwise GS would have like 50 million people playing today due to their excellent secret formula marketing skills.

Another thing that is employed in the video game industry is releasing an unfinished product and then fixing it later instead of just releasing it when it's finished. Simu's been way ahead of everyone else as far as this goes, and new 925 is no different, i.e. "Oops, somehow literally everyone involved in the dev and QA of this project totally forgot about war mages sry we'll think of a fix!"


Quick and easy to master gets boring more quickly than something with a steeper learning curve, and the player gets a sense of accomplishment that keeps them around longer with a more arduous task completion.

That's subjective. The last thing I give a shit about when I'm playing a game is the complex math formula behind the numbers on the screen.


This system is brand new, and not all the information is disseminated yet to make it simple for everyone to understand. Make no mistake, however. It will get there, and rapidly, like literally every other system the game has ever introduced. No, we don't know the exact spellburst formula. We don't know the exact skinning formula. We don't know the exact redux formula. But through trial and error, educated guessing, and testing, we now have scripts to tell you with 99.9% accuracy how good you are at all of those.

There are also almost definitely going to be scripts for "non-hunting" wizards made to run out, dump mana on critters, get a pulse, run to town, regain mana, run back out, dump mana, etc.

Not that I really give a shit about that, but it's gonna be funny to see if/when it happens and how Simu will act totally blindsided by it and never saw it coming.


It's not like the OLD system of enchanting was any less complex, what with pouring temper potions and waiting X days and figuring out this or that or infusing potions with these lores or that, and getting naked so your halfling can hold the full plate without encumbrance on a node in a workshop and figuring out what the fuck that messaging meant and oh okay it must be sanctified or whatever, so it needs this other potion too and uh oh, my item got locked, I wonder how that works, maybe I can unenchant it and start over or wait for a merchant to unlock it, alright that's fixed, now just repeat that seven more times and it'll gain an enchant level. In fact, I'd argue that the new system is LESS complex than the old. The reason you don't consider the old complex is because you already know it, and all the info is right there on the wiki if you have a question.

Honestly I know the bare minimum about the old system. I pour a potion, wait, come back and cast. But I also have the luxury of having everything relevant maxed, so there are things I don't have to give a shit about due to that. And it'll be the same way with this system. I'll just kill stuff until it says I'm ready for whatever enchant I'm working on and hunt no differently than I already do. That doesn't make the whole "here's an incomplete formula for you to not be able to figure out because it's incomplete" thing any less stupid.


So to re-iterate - No sympathy. My wizard hunted most of yesterday and now he's maxed out on his weekly whatever, so I'll probably be able to enchant something next time I try. Good for him. If I want to know more, I'll wait a couple weeks for the wiki to catch up.

No one is asking for sympathy. Except for maybe war mages and table wizards. But other than that, none of this other bullshit is really going to affect me because I'm already maxed in everything needed and I'm not redoing my lore setup just for enchanting or change how I do much of anything anyway, which my lore is probably fine as is (20 fire 60 earth 35 water 87 air). I just like being able to track progress on things without having to break out a calculator and for me personally this new system is a buff.

They did apparently change the "you have enough for the second cast of a 6x" messaging to:

You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +27 enchantment.

https://media.tenor.com/images/c63f1770ca1565aec8bc4b66686b7521/tenor.gif

[drauz]

I am pushing my water lore down to 30-40 ranks since it is bonus based and not rank based.

[Methais]

This whole thing is actually a stealth buff to 519. Since 519 is much weaker now, you have to cast it more to kill things, which means:

>incant 515
>incant 519 x4573829403272
>pulse
>repeat

https://i.imgur.com/ST5J25V.gif

#MIGA

[Maerit]

Does 519 generate as much essence per cast as 917? Someone alluded to wizard spells being stronger in the essence gathering regard for some reason, though I see nothing like that mentioned in the officials.

[drumpel]

I put my level 68 wizard out on a normal hunt. Usually takes 12-15 minutes for a normal hunt to fry. Yeah, he's a bit slow at this level because creatures his training are practically immune to 917 (stone type creatures) or easier targets are mixed in with things that can make my hunts more miserable than enjoyable. He doesn't bolt, just utilizes 917 and sometimes 502.

level 68
targets level 63

Skills that factor:
HP - 118 ranks
EL:W - 68 ranks
EL:A - 72 ranks
EL:F - 0 ranks
EMC - 71 ranks

Casts 917 - 56 casts (952 mana)
Casts 410 - 1 cast (10 mana)
Casts 516 - 12 casts (recouped 348 mana over the course of the hunt)
I also wracked 1x during the hunt (264 mana).

15 minute hunt (would have been 13, but I had to take a phone call while at work, on my break).

>sense
You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +2 enchantment.

According to that chart from Naos +2 is 200 essence. If that's the case, every 12-15 minutes I hunt to fill my head full (fried) I earn roughly 200 essence......

16k is max for a week. 16000/200 = 80 full hunts with my current method of hunt from nearly empty mind to fried. So, 800 to 1200 minutes......or 13.3 hours to 15 hours of hunting on my wizard to max out his weekly allowance. That's faster than the 10k under the mana pool system where that would take this same wizard upwards of 32-36 hours to hit 10k.

If we actually knew how each aspect of EL:W/A/F, EMC and HP actually impacted everything, I could probably shave off a 15-30 (120 to 450 minutes) hunts by maximizing my time properly. However, I don't want to sit and play some shitty guessing game. It would be much appreciated if they just came out to tell us.

I've tried digging into SMRv2 defense and why some characters have abysmal penalties for wearing armor they're fully trained for when compared to others that get much lower penalties......how these GMs build some of these equations are wack as hell and without knowing any specific factors of it, it's just a shot in the dark to even build a well educated guess to how a system works. A level 16 warrior that's 3x in armor use (51 ranks) - why does he get a worse penalty over a wizard that's got 28 ranks in armor use and they both wear leather breastplate? Both are the same race and have similar stats....yet the warrior doesn't hit that 3rd tier of armor penalty reduction that the wizard gets.

So, I don't enjoy the guessing game with some of these equations they build. Having a significantly worse SMRv2 defense can be outright fatal when you're up against 917 being used on you. I don't have countless hours to hunt my characters that I like to play, I'd like to have an idea of how to best utilize my time to benefit myself the most.

[drauz]

Does 519 generate as much essence per cast as 917? Someone alluded to wizard spells being stronger in the essence gathering regard for some reason, though I see nothing like that mentioned in the officials.

Naos said the circle cast from doesn't matter.

[Donquix]

There were a total of 35 kills. The gen rate was a bit slow but steady. The character is on lumnis so, consequently, never fried and spent the majority of the time in the field with very little time on node. Also made frequent use of 516 so mana never became an issue. I just wanted to put myself in the place of a casual player not ideally set up for hunting to see how these changes might affect them.

I'm not sure how much the lack of water lore impacted these results. Since I don't discord, I'm not privy to the current discussions. But the results I had are so far afield from anything reasonable I'm concerned that there are going to be major imbalances in essence accumulation from character to character based on hunting styles and level v level factors. We're talking 83k casts to reach 64K essence. It's absurd. And this character isn't poorly trained except for the water lore. He is almost 2x EMC, 1.4x HP and 1x Elemental Lore w/24 air ranks and 20 fire ranks.

Mark

This is what I've been mentioning since it came out. Most people that have done some more concrete testing are at/near cap, a good portion already with a lot of water lore. It seems like it is going to SUCK for midlevel wizards, and 10-20 ranks of water lore seems mandatory now, from what I can see. I think the water lore absorb rate is a BIG factor speed wise.

[Riltus]

>sense
You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +2 enchantment.

According to that chart from Naos +2 is 200 essence. If that's the case, every 12-15 minutes I hunt to fill my head full (fried) I earn roughly 200 essence......

It's not clear to me that the above messaging corresponds to 200 essence.

This is from his release post.


...The essence costs for each cast follow a simple pattern. If the current bonus of the item is less than 25, the cost is 100 essence per point of bonus. If the current bonus of the item is 25 or higher, the cost is 2400 essence plus 2400 per point above 24. This is the cost to increase the bonus of the item by 1 point. e.g. from +24 to +25 costs 2400 essence; from +49 to +50 costs 62400 essence; from +0 to +1 costs zero essence. The amount of essence a Wizard can gather and store is capped weekly at 16000 and overal at 64000. ...Naos


For enchants up to +25 bonus the cost, according to his post, is 100 less than (current bonus * 100). If a (+0 to +1 enchant) costs zero then a (+1 to +2) should cost 100. The messaging states that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +2 enchant. I think this needs further clarification from Naos.

Mark

[drumpel]

It's not clear to me that the above messaging corresponds to 200 essence.



It should, Naos posted this chart (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Professions/Wizard/view/787). It clearly shows that doing a +2 enchant is possible at 200 essence.

So, if after 1 hunt I have enough for a +2 enchant, that would be 200 essence (or some amount between 200-300 essence).

[Tgo01]

It should, Naos posted this chart (http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Professions/Wizard/view/787). It clearly shows that doing a +2 enchant is possible at 200 essence.

So, if after 1 hunt I have enough for a +2 enchant, that would be 200 essence (or some amount between 200-300 essence).


This is the cost to increase the bonus of the item by 1 point. e.g. from +24 to +25 costs 2400 essence

It sounds like it's 100 x what the current bonus is on the item. So if you have enough to do a +2 enchant it sounds like you have anywhere from 100 to 199 essence.

In fact it has to be current bonus because it it went by the bonus you are enchanting to it would cost 64,800 essence to go from 49 to 50 and 64,000 is the most essence one can hold.

[Fortybox]

This is what I've been mentioning since it came out. Most people that have done some more concrete testing are at/near cap, a good portion already with a lot of water lore. It seems like it is going to SUCK for midlevel wizards, and 10-20 ranks of water lore seems mandatory now, from what I can see. I think the water lore absorb rate is a BIG factor speed wise.

Wow...you mean higher level wizards are going to be better at getting essence and enchanting? WOW...say it ain’t so.

[drumpel]

It sounds like it's 100 x what the current bonus is on the item. So if you have enough to do a +2 enchant it sounds like you have anywhere from 100 to 199 essence.

In fact it has to be current bonus because it it went by the bonus you are enchanting to it would cost 64,800 essence to go from 49 to 50 and 64,000 is the most essence one can hold.

If that's the case, then it's still a tediously dull fucking trickle to earn points to enchant and my wizard will still be around 30+ hours to hit his max essence (so, no change for this wizard). At least under the old system I could enchant and utilize the stored mana for extra features (speed enchants or infusing pre-temper potions for flaring items).

This system, I can't do a god damn thing for quite some time on any item I have. Sinking 30+ hours into hunting a week, with Lumnis to expedite my wizard through a big chunk of exp just means he'll be flying through levels just do an odd enchant here and there. Any item I want to work on I've already taken to 4x and I was setup to take a handful of them to 5x and by then up to 6x. I don't want to spend all my in game hours on just one character hunting so I can utilize the damn enchanting spell once or twice a month for my items. Seems like an awful side step to enchanting, at least for me....

[Fortybox]

If that's the case, then it's still a tediously dull fucking trickle to earn points to enchant and my wizard will still be around 30+ hours to hit his max essence (so, no change for this wizard). At least under the old system I could enchant and utilize the stored mana for extra features (speed enchants or infusing pre-temper potions for flaring items).

This system, I can't do a god damn thing for quite some time on any item I have. Sinking 30+ hours into hunting a week, with Lumnis to expedite my wizard through a big chunk of exp just means he'll be flying through levels just do an odd enchant here and there. Any item I want to work on I've already taken to 4x and I was setup to take a handful of them to 5x and by then up to 6x. I don't want to spend all my in game hours on just one character hunting so I can utilize the damn enchanting spell once or twice a month for my items. Seems like an awful side step to enchanting, at least for me....

You want all the benefits of enchanting on a low level character without putting in the work for it. Got it.

[drumpel]

You want all the benefits of enchanting on a low level character without putting in the work for it. Got it.

I can cast 735 on things in less than 8 hours of hunting.

Sure, I can't do high (hard) item ensorcell casts yet, but I can sure as hell do casts on 4x or under items without much effort.

Enchant is still just a slow, dismal drag of a spell.

Also, I wouldn't say level 68 is low level. I'd say level 40 and under is low level and expecting to do decent enchants under level 40 should be a more difficult task.

[Donquix]

Wow...you mean higher level wizards are going to be better at getting essence and enchanting? WOW...say it ain’t so.

Higher level wizards should obviously be better at generating energy and casting enchant.

Low to mid level wizards who have't gone all in on water lore shouldn't be bad at the actual enchants, and also have to call in sick from work for a couple of days so they can farm for the week. There's you know, a middle ground. The problem is weird static -> essence buffer layer. People with reasonable mid-level wizard builds grinding out lumnis and being at like, 1/16h of their energy for the week is asinine.

[Riltus]

You want all the benefits of enchanting on a low level character without putting in the work for it. Got it.

First 100 essence

CASTER LEVEL: 45
TARGET LEVEL: 40

Relevant skills:

Harness Power......................| 166 66
Elemental Mana Control.............| 188 88
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 102 24
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 10 2
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 90 20

Note: No Water lore

Normal hunting.

901: 16 casts (16 mana)
904: 94 casts (376 mana)
505: 19 casts (95 mana) Tonis bolt
906: 2 casts (12 mana)
917: 2 casts (34 mana)
_________________________

Total: 133 casts, 533 mana, 35 (lvl 40) kills

Second 100 essence

CASTER LEVEL: 45
TARGET LEVEL: 40

Relevant skills:

Harness Power......................| 166 66
Elemental Mana Control.............| 188 88
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 102 24
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 10 2
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 90 20

Note: No Water lore

Normal hunting.

901: 4 casts (4 mana)
904: 77 casts (308 mana)
505: 48 casts (240 mana)
917: 1 cast (17 mana)
___________________________

Total: 130 casts, 569 mana, 36 (lvl 40) kills

Let's do a little extrapolation.

To do one 0x to 5x enchant (30,000 essence) will take this character approximately 10,600 lvl 40 kills. This is similar to the number of kills required to master voln, not once, but TWICE!

For this character to acquire 64,000 essence would require the expenditure of approximately 350,000 mana. That's three hundred and fifty thousand mana for a character with a current max mana of 163.

You can argue that the character can modify hunting and adjust training but these numbers are twilight zone crazy. Also, low level characters already have built-in barriers to enchanting in the form of skill limitations. And these limitations will continue with the new system.

Mark

[Tgo01]

For this character to acquire 64,000 essence would require the expenditure of approximately 350,000 mana.

Let's assume an average of 10 mana per spell cast, that's 35,000 casts.

35,000 casts with a 3 second cast RT is 105,000 seconds.

105,000 seconds is 1,750 minutes, or not quite 30 hours. That's 7.5 hours to max out energy per week.

That's a little over 1 hour a day, not of play time, but of casting spells. Assuming someone is doing nothing but casting spells and assuming a mere 3 second downtime between each cast (finding a critter, not being stuck in hard RT, etc) we are looking at 2+ hours of pure hunting. Not "hunting" as in get fried, rest in town until clear. No. 2 hours of just casting spells at critters.

A day.

Yeah, this might need just a touch of redoing. Overall I like the idea of making it more like ensorcell in that it's an instant cast, I absolutely refused to do any enchanting on my wizard with the old method because I hated not being able to use them item then having to remember to check on it every few days to see if the next pour was ready, and blah blah blah.

But these numbers are way more crazy than maxing out necro juice is. By far more crazy.

[BriarFox]

Approximately 6 hours of hunting on my 14m exp mage produced this: You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +20 enchantment.

Skills:

Arcane Symbols.....................| 302 202
Magic Item Use.....................| 302 202
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202
Harness Power......................| 302 202
Elemental Mana Control.............| 302 202
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 146 46
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 50 10
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 200 100


I'm not really sure what that means yet, beyond the obvious, or what to do with the 30k mana he has in his personal mana pool.

[Seran]

You have enough resonance to do each +1 step from 0 to +20. That isn't bad for six hours of hunting, certainly a lot better than the prior wait.

[Tgo01]

Approximately 6 hours of hunting on my 14m exp mage, 2x in all relevant skills with 100 water lore and 46 earth lore, produced this: You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +20 enchantment.

I'm not really sure what that means yet, beyond the obvious, or what to do with the 30k mana he has in his personal mana pool.

Capped wizards don't seem to have it too bad then. I guess the GMs wanted to make it harder for lower level wizards.

[Leafiara]

I'm pretty sure that message means he has enough to go from +19 to +20, not 0 to +20.

[kookiegod]

Getting people out and hunting via grindy resource generation is a bid to up player engagement numbers.

/sigh

One of the best systems is now completely gone.

I met so many friends in GS doing enchanting parties long before multiaccounting.

Then Thurfel busted up the IMT workshops.

Then the AI was ruined.

Then Altiron fucked up enchanting more.

House workshops then were nerfed.

Private home workshops were worth billions.

I still remember Psionix and Dionket doing 10x enchants monthly with a lot of work, private workshops, and a literal boatload of infusing.

Oh well, at least I got the memories.

And the copy of the huge check i wrote to my ex-wife I met there. /laugh

~Paul

[horibu]

that 6hrs of hunting for a +20 cast is only 1900 tears. So not really that much considering it's 16k for the max. That's about 50ish hours for Briarfox to cap hunting the same method.

[Derex]

How many hours hunting roughly for cap or near cap for 5x 6x 7x obviously some factors involved that’s why I’m saying roughly these are the numbers I’m wanting to see without figuring it out on my own

Thanks lol

[Fortybox]

You can argue that the character can modify hunting and adjust training but these numbers are twilight zone crazy.


That's exactly the argument. Everyone wants everything. As a sorcerer, if you want to max energy, train in Necro Lore. It's not required but it helps.

Please tell me why wizards should be great at everything, or more specifically, why a level 45 wizard should be great at everything?

[Donquix]

/sigh

One of the best systems is now completely gone.

I met so many friends in GS doing enchanting parties long before multiaccounting.

Then Thurfel busted up the IMT workshops.

Then the AI was ruined.

Then Altiron fucked up enchanting more.

House workshops then were nerfed.

Private home workshops were worth billions.

I still remember Psionix and Dionket doing 10x enchants monthly with a lot of work, private workshops, and a literal boatload of infusing.

Oh well, at least I got the memories.

And the copy of the huge check i wrote to my ex-wife I met there. /laugh

~Paul

Literally the worst of every enchanting system tried. Nope.

[Fortybox]

Capped wizards don't seem to have it too bad then. I guess the GMs wanted to make it harder for lower level wizards.

Imagine that...levels actually mean something? It's almost as if "training" means you get better at something!

[Tgo01]

Capped wizards don't seem to have it too bad then. I guess the GMs wanted to make it harder for lower level wizards.

I just realized a 20 enchant is only 1900 energy, I was thinking 19000 when I read Briar’s post. That’s like 300 energy per hour. I’m about to go to sleep so too tired to do anymore simple math but that’s not nearly as good as I originally thought.

[Donquix]

Imagine that...levels actually mean something? It's almost as if "training" means you get better at something!

So we've established there is literally 0 ground between "this is trivial" and "i may as well not know this spell". Got it.

[Riltus]

that 6hrs of hunting for a +20 cast is only 1900 tears. So not really that much considering it's 16k for the max. That's about 50ish hours for Briarfox to cap hunting the same method.

That should be accurate.

He has enough essence to enchant an item from +0 to +6. When completed, a 405 cast should display: You recognize the faint orange aura surrounding it as indicating a weak level of enchantment. There should also be a remaining balance of 400 essence with the following sense messaging: You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +5 enchantment. The initial enchant (0 to +1) does not use any essence. 6 hours to gain 1900 essence works out to about 50 hours to reach the weekly 16,000 essence cap and 200 hours to hit the maximum cap of 64,000. If you devote 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, you will max out in approximately 100 days. If my numbers are correct <cough> it takes 63,600 essence to enchant from 0 to +29.

At Briar's rate (1900 per 6 hours), hunting 2 hours a day, it would take ~3.75 years to enchant an item from 0 to +50 (870,000 essence).

Starting Bonus|Destination Bonus|Essence Cost|Cumulative Cost
0|+1|0|0
+1|+2|100|100
+2|+3|200|300
+3|+4|300|600
+4|+5|400|1000
|||
+5|+6|500|1500
+6|+7|600|2100
+7|+8|700|2800
+8|+9|800|3600
+9|+10|900|4500
|||
+10|+11|1,000|5500
+11|+12|1,100|6600
+12|+13|1,200|7800
+13|+14|1,300|9100
+14|+15|1,400|10,500
|||
+15|+16|1,500|12,000
+16|+17|1,600|13,600
+17|+18|1,700|15,300
+18|+19|1,800|17,100
+19|+20|1,900|19,000
|||
+20|+21|2,000|21,000
+21|+22|2,100|23,100
+22|+23|2,200|25,300
+23|+24|2,300|27,600
+24|+25|2,400|30,000
|||
+25|+26|4,800|34,800
+26|+27|7,200|42,000
+27|+28|9,600|51,600
+28|+29|12,000|63,600
+29|+30|14,400|78,000
|||
+30|+31|16,800|94,800
+31|+32|19,200|114,000
+32|+33|21,600|135,600
+33|+34|24,000|159,600
+34|+35|26,400|186,000
|||
+35|+36|28,800|214,800
+36|+37|31,200|246,000
+37|+38|33,600|279,600
+38|+39|36,000|315,600
+39|+40|38,400|354,000
|||
+40|+41|40,800|394,800
+41|+42|43,200|438,000
+42|+43|45,600|483,600
+43|+44|48,000|531,600
+44|+45|50,400|582,000
|||
+45|+46|52,800|634,800
+46|+47|55,200|690,000
+47|+48|57,600|747,600
+48|+49|60,000|807,600
+49|+50|62,400|870,000


Mark

[Derex]

Fuckkkk wyorm

[Riltus]

Please tell me why wizards should be great at everything, or more specifically, why a level 45 wizard should be great at everything?

Because EVERYONE wants EVERYTHING for FREE, except you. Your questions are always rhetorical.

Now, where is all your empirical data from the hours of research you have been doing? How about contributing more than lip service. Let us know when you crack the essence formula and reconstruct the new enchant formula.

Mark

[Winter]

Ok after about 2 hours hunting total which imo is ALOT (at a guess more than I would hunt to use up Lumnis) I have the following.


Wiz 1 using mainly 907 and occasionally 910

Arcane Symbols.....................| 302 202
Magic Item Use.....................| 302 202
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202
Harness Power......................| 403 303
Elemental Mana Control.............| 302 202
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 243 143

You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +25 enchantment, used to get 6400 a week in 6-7 hours of play of Lumnis (5-8 mins to fry then rest) and rarely bothered to keep hunting to reach the 10k collection cap.

Wiz 2 using 910 only and the odd 903/512 combo

Arcane Symbols.....................| 302 202
Magic Item Use.....................| 302 202
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202
Harness Power......................| 378 278
Elemental Mana Control.............| 302 202
Spirit Mana Control................| 96 22
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 243 143

You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +25 enchantment, 6400 a week in 6-7 hours of play under old system


Wiz 3 using nothing but 910

Arcane Symbols.....................| 201 101
Magic Item Use.....................| 302 202
Spell Aiming.......................| 302 202
Harness Power......................| 219 119
Elemental Mana Control.............| 200 100
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 300 200


You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +21 enchantment, this was one surprised me because I fixskilled her to 200 water last year to specifcally keep up with the other 2 when I used to enchant but she only has +21 under the new system. At the end of Lumnis the collection used to be 7700 which was good enough for me.

I'm not sure why she's so far behind the other 2 because the investment in water lore past 1x is very very expensive. The upside is If we get a fix skills I'll probably get rid all the water lore but 30 for major acid and dump the points into survival and a little bit of air so she can forage as it fits her RP theme.

It's very unlikely I'll hunt past lumnis on these 3 under the new system but I rarely enchanted anyway, in the past 6 months I've only done 1 4x-5x enchant to replace some vanilla robes I accidentally sold to the pawnshop, I used to enchant forged weapons but that got old pretty quickly.

[BriarFox]

Given Winter’s results, it looks like HP may play an outsized role. Winter, were you in the field that whole 2 hours? My 6 hour data point above was the result of my usual “hunt til fried and rest til clear” pattern.

[gilchristr]

How much difference would +50 mana recovery enhancive, and +50 harness power enhanives make? The details are fuzzy for me, but I thought i read that the more mana burned hunting the more wizards tears realized.

[Winter]

Winter, were you in the field that whole 2 hours?

6x 15 minute hunts and rest and then 1x 30 minute hunt at the end which pretty much gave me eye strain.

[BriarFox]

6x 15 minute hunts and rest and then 1x 30 minute hunt at the end which pretty much gave me eye strain.

So yes, ok. That makes sense with your results vs. mine above.

What I'd really like to distinguish is a comparison between the new and old systems, primarily in time invested. Obviously, the new one requires significant active involvement vs. the passive nature of the old one.

The numbers that stuck out at me from Naos's follow-up posts were the weekly cap of 16,000 and the conversion: "Each dose will provide a maximum of 15600 essence which consumes 30 percent reduction (9750 infused mana) from the potion." So, Naos is thinking that the 16,000 essence is equivalent to the 10,000 mana under the old water-lore acceleration system. That doesn’t seem right overall, but if you have stored mana it’s a nice boost.

Here's the comparison for typical time for a 7x enchant (+30-35), accelerated vs. not, to the new system:

Old 7x, unaccelerated: 7 x ~14 days = 98 days (14 weeks) of passive waiting
Old 7x, accelerated: 1 day per temper + 3 weeks of mana each (at my rate x ~16 hours weekly to reach 10k mana) = 21-22 weeks and 336 hours of hunting
New 7x: 108,000 essence / 16,000 per week = 6.75 weeks @ ~325 essence / hour = ~7 weeks and 353 hours of hunting (with 50 hours per week -- hah).

Clearly, the new system has the potential to be 2-3x as fast as the old systems for a 7x enchant, but requires a larger time investment. At 16 hours per week for ~5,000 essence, it would take 21.6 weeks to do a 7x--identical to the previous water-lore acceleration.

Sorry if this is repetitious; I'm just getting caught up.

[rolfard]

My level 100 mage hunting SOS with 202 EMC, 150 HP, 75 ranks water, 30 ranks air, and 20 ranks fire was routinely dropping 400- ~800 Mana using rapidfire targeted 410, 518, 910, 908, 907, and 904 with a bit of 530 and 435.

I would then return to node and wait to find that less than half was being converted. Ex: dropped 800, went from +14-+16, dropped 400, went from +16-+17

[AnOrdim]

Unless something changes, it looks like the optimal hunting pattern is now going to be short bursts of hunting with a pulse or two to recover mana and then do it again.
I switched up my hunting style to match that last night and earned ~1k essence in about an hour. It still wasn't perfect since I don't use a pulse timer or anything like that, just going by mana regen or mind status change. I'll try and keep track of spells cast and time spent tonight when I try again.

[audioserf]

It's excellent that mages now have to hunt in the most exp/hr inefficient fashion to max mage tears. Good work Naos!

[nocturnix]

Not quite sure why they dont just tell us how much essence we have with sense. I mean they did that with mana pool? I guess once we have an accurate table of +14 = x,xxx essence or whatever then it wont matter so much, but seems like extra work that was coded just to obfuscate how much essence we have stored up. Or am i missing something here?

[Fortybox]

Because EVERYONE wants EVERYTHING for FREE, except you. Your questions are always rhetorical.

Now, where is all your empirical data from the hours of research you have been doing? How about contributing more than lip service. Let us know when you crack the essence formula and reconstruct the new enchant formula.

Mark

I'm fine with the changes. If you want to spend hours of your own time whining on the boards and complaining to Simu about a new system go ahead. I'd prefer to spend my time enjoying the change.

[AnOrdim]

Could your Wizard hunt and gain EXP under the old enchant system when you were in a workshop doing pours etc.?

or was there a hard RT lock? Asking since I never enchanted.

RT was ~30 seconds for pours and casts and then you basically lockered the item away for X amount of days while the tempering finished. So basically you just couldn't use the item for days/weeks/months, depending on the enchant level. You maybe spent all of 5 minutes managing it and moving it along when it needed to be.

There are a lot of really good things with this system, just figuring out how best to maximize it will be a learning curve.

[Maerit]

Estild wanted all this data on the officials stating that the goal was to allow wizards to cap their essence with normal hunting, and the formula would be tweaked when data was supplied. It was not their intention to force excessive hours to hit the cap.

[nocturnix]

I think the changes are great. As already said, the only question is the balancing of energy accumulation which could be tweaked in the future if its too slow. Everything else seems great...super stoked to start doing new enchants. Just about to finish a 7x enchant with the old system.

[Derex]

I think the changes are great. As already said, the only question is the balancing of energy accumulation which could be tweaked in the future if its too slow. Everything else seems great...super stoked to start doing new enchants. Just about to finish a 7x enchant with the old system.

I don’t see how taking longer to enchant is better unless you really are gonna play ur wizard 60 hours a week without afking

[Methais]

Let's assume an average of 10 mana per spell cast, that's 35,000 casts.

35,000 casts with a 3 second cast RT is 105,000 seconds.

105,000 seconds is 1,750 minutes, or not quite 30 hours. That's 7.5 hours to max out energy per week.

That's a little over 1 hour a day, not of play time, but of casting spells. Assuming someone is doing nothing but casting spells and assuming a mere 3 second downtime between each cast (finding a critter, not being stuck in hard RT, etc) we are looking at 2+ hours of pure hunting. Not "hunting" as in get fried, rest in town until clear. No. 2 hours of just casting spells at critters.

A day.

Yeah, this might need just a touch of redoing. Overall I like the idea of making it more like ensorcell in that it's an instant cast, I absolutely refused to do any enchanting on my wizard with the old method because I hated not being able to use them item then having to remember to check on it every few days to see if the next pour was ready, and blah blah blah.

But these numbers are way more crazy than maxing out necro juice is. By far more crazy.

I don't know how much of an overall difference it would make, but they should allow wizards to continue to INFUSE mana into potions after the old system's grace period expires and let players drink them for the extra essence like you can currently do.

[Methais]

/sigh

One of the best systems is now completely gone.

I met so many friends in GS doing enchanting parties long before multiaccounting.

Then Thurfel busted up the IMT workshops.

Then the AI was ruined.

Then Altiron fucked up enchanting more.

House workshops then were nerfed.

Private home workshops were worth billions.

I still remember Psionix and Dionket doing 10x enchants monthly with a lot of work, private workshops, and a literal boatload of infusing.

Oh well, at least I got the memories.

And the copy of the huge check i wrote to my ex-wife I met there. /laugh

~Paul

That system has been gone since GS3 though.

[Methais]

Fuckkkk wyorm

Wyrom is pretty hands off with dev. Dev just does wtf they want with pretty much 0 accountability.

It's extremely retarded.

[Stumplicker]

Jaysus. That old enchanting system was way ahead of its time, and not in a good way. Even back then the main reason it got changed was because people started making zombie armies to infuse and do things like daily 10x enchants. These days with lich, you throw that back in and Dreaven alone'll be able to pop out three or four 10x's a day.

[Methais]

Unless something changes, it looks like the optimal hunting pattern is now going to be short bursts of hunting with a pulse or two to recover mana and then do it again.
I switched up my hunting style to match that last night and earned ~1k essence in about an hour. It still wasn't perfect since I don't use a pulse timer or anything like that, just going by mana regen or mind status change. I'll try and keep track of spells cast and time spent tonight when I try again.

Reminds me of when they changed/reversed exp absorption, I think during the Warden days, to where the less exp you had in your bucket, the bigger your pulse was. I don't think it lasted long, I just remember how stupid it was. I don't remember if it actually went live or if they were just talking about it and people shit all over it, but either way it was pretty dumb.

[Astray]

Wyrom is pretty hands off with dev. Dev just does wtf they want with pretty much 0 accountability.

It's extremely retarded.

Then when people don't like it, you have Wyrom tell them that the Devs are volunteers and people should be grateful for anything they do.

Because that's what good business is. Apparently.

[Methais]

Estild wanted all this data on the officials stating that the goal was to allow wizards to cap their essence with normal hunting, and the formula would be tweaked when data was supplied. It was not their intention to force excessive hours to hit the cap.

If only they had a way to test these things before going live with it.

If only we had something like another server whose only purpose is for testing things.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/408ce6d687a86456186aebc30f6a5486/tenor.gif?itemid=9438567

This new system is kind of like a bottlenecked version of the old INFUSE enchant system. You could relive the 90s and do something like:

- Train wizard in max water lore
- Go to capped hunting area
- Park an army of halfling/dwarf clerics at the nearest node
- Wizard runs into capped area, blows mana load in 30 seconds, wracks, repeat, max mana leech, repeat
- Wizard exits hunting area
- Cleric sends mana, wracks, sends mana, meditate
- Wizard blows mana load in 30 seconds
- Cleric 2 refills mana, wracks, sends mana, meditate
- Wizard blows mana load in 30 seconds
- Cleric 1 sends mana, wracks, sends mana, meditate

And clerics also doing Well of Life rotations assuming the wizard has the biggest mana pool.

Just like the old days, but with a couple small extra steps.

It won't let you pump out multiple 8x-10x enchants before lunch time like back then, but in theory it should make it super easy to hit your weekly cap. And since you don't have to actually kill things, they can probably hang onto their gimped hunting max enchanting build.

Dreaven should write a script for this immediately.

[audioserf]

This was rushed out the door to be the capstone of Spring Spectacular. It doesn't seem like it was ready for prime time. Their complete unwillingness to provide any transparency to mechanics/formulas is maddening.

[trecendend]

Has anything been said about how the new enchanting system will be revised to help warmages or are we up the creek without a paddle now?

[audioserf]

Has anything been said about how the new enchanting system will be revised to help warmages or are we up the creek without a paddle now?

They acknowledge it's an issue and plan to put something in place to help, but have stated that warmages will not be as good at enchanting (well, accumulating wizard tear energy) as pures.

[Methais]

Has anything been said about how the new enchanting system will be revised to help warmages or are we up the creek without a paddle now?

"Oops, all of us in dev and QA totally forgot about war mages. We'll figure out something soon!" -Simu, paraphrased

[trecendend]

They acknowledge it's an issue and plan to put something in place to help, but have stated that warmages will not be as good at enchanting (well, accumulating wizard tear energy) as pures.

That breaks my heart. I designed my warmage to be an enchanter. :(

[Viekn]

If only they had a way to test these things before going live with it.

If only we had something like another server whose only purpose is for testing things.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/408ce6d687a86456186aebc30f6a5486/tenor.gif?itemid=9438567

This new system is kind of like a bottlenecked version of the old INFUSE enchant system. You could relive the 90s and do something like:

- Wizard runs into capped area, blows mana load
-
- Wizard blows mana load in 30 seconds
-
- Wizard blows mana load in 30 seconds


You just wanted an excuse to say "Wizard blows mana load" a bunch of times, that's why you suggested that. Dirty old man!

[audioserf]

That breaks my heart. I designed my warmage to be an enchanter. :(

Hold out until the change. See what happens. They're still tweaking this thing what appears to by the day (since it was 100% not ready to be released, lol).

[Methais]

You just wanted an excuse to say "Wizard blows mana load" a bunch of times, that's why you suggested that. Dirty old man!

I should have used mana bukkake. :(

[Donquix]

I should have used mana bukkake. :(

"Son what are you doing in there?"
"NOTHING MOM I"M STUDYING GO AWAY. Oh god yeah, yeah....spray that mana all over that fuckin triton siren, oh you like that bitch? you like that +27 enchant? yeah you do."

[Maerit]

Considering using 519 as my disabler for my warmage until they decide on a reasonable fix. Does 519 work on non-corp undead (spectral triton defenders)?

[Methais]

Considering using 519 as my disabler for my warmage until they decide on a reasonable fix. Does 519 work on non-corp undead (spectral triton defenders)?

It works on everything that isn't made of fire.

[Donquix]

Considering using 519 as my disabler for my warmage until they decide on a reasonable fix. Does 519 work on non-corp undead (spectral triton defenders)?

530 anything with spells. why the fuck not?

[Maerit]

530 anything with spells. why the fuck not?

Yeah, I'm going to have to reconfigure my lores and spell ranks in order to get more HP/EMC so I can actually enchant. Of course, that means I will lose a lot of Wizard circle ranks, so I won't be able to enchant much, but at least I won't be "essence" starved.

[Leafiara]

On the otherhand, this was an awesome change for non-wizards buying enchants. Prices come downWhy would prices come down? Even if GMs increase the rate of gaining essence, pocket enchanters are completely out of the picture and casual wizard mains aren't enchanting at reasonable speeds anymore.

Fewer enchanters means those of us who do enchant are more valuable than ever. So get ready to pay up! :P

[Gelston]

Why would prices come down? Even if GMs increase the rate of gaining essence, pocket enchanters are completely out of the picture and casual wizard mains aren't enchanting at reasonable speeds anymore.

Fewer enchanters means those of us who do enchant are more valuable than ever. So get ready to pay up! :P

Because of the Chinese market.

[drumpel]

Because of the Chinese market.

So you're saying it's Trump and his tariffs.....

[drauz]

So fire lore looks like the way to go. You get a percentage EXTRA of your current gathered essence per pulse. It reads like fire lore works for enchant like necro lore works for ensorcell.

9324

[audioserf]

I think hunting areas can expect a slight influx of population as some people try to convert their "log in a couple times a month" table mage army to hunters to gather tears. Especially areas easy to bigshot.

[AnOrdim]

So fire lore looks like the way to go. You get a percentage EXTRA of your current gathered essence per pulse. It reads like fire lore works for enchant like necro lore works for ensorcell.

9324

Where did you get that from? I thought fire lore just generated more static per mana spent.

[BriarFox]

Data point - 10.5 hours of hunting to reach +26 (4800 essence). Blend of previous style, which was getting me 300/hr for the first 8 hours and a fairly continuous hunting style for the last 2.5 hours. In other words, hunting non-stop, I can come pretty close to 1k/hour -- I think. At this rate, it should take me ~11 hours more to cap my weekly essence.

[Donquix]

Where did you get that from? I thought fire lore just generated more static per mana spent.

Discord, Naos said he fucked up on the announcement. He can't even keep the formula straight.

Another clarification we got is how much you can absorb per tick is: Some bullshit factor from EMC that we can't just be told for god knows why UP TO A MAX of (EL:W BONUS and some factor from Harnes Power we also can't be told for god knows why)

so EMC = how much you absorb, capped by HP/ELW

...you know, for now until we found out that was another wrong thing he said.

[AnOrdim]

Sounds like NAOS got thrown under the bus trying to explain Estild's shit mechanics on this one.

[drumpel]

I ran my near capped (level 96) wizard into Nelemar and after about 8 minutes and having only used 909 (self cast a few times), 912 and 917 on creatures, he had pulled in over 100 essence (enough for a +2 enchant).

He doesn't have any EL:A, W or F lore. So he gets no kind of bonus. Seeing as how he's not capped, the sentries there kind of kicked his ass so it was a short hunt. Surprisingly he took out most other creatures without a hitch by keeping them prone and using 917.

His skills are:
HP - 145 ranks
EMC - 112 ranks
EL:W - 0 ranks
EL:A - 0 ranks
EL:F - 0 ranks
EL:E - 158 ranks

I'll have to hunt him more to see how he does after a few hunts. Though I'm not sure when I'll get around to it with him.

[Methais]

I think hunting areas can expect a slight influx of population as some people try to convert their "log in a couple times a month" table mage army to hunters to gather tears. Especially areas easy to bigshot.

I'm hearing that warcamps are already overrun. Too lazy to verify it myself, but it wouldn't be surprising.

[Methais]

Discord, Naos said he fucked up on the announcement. He can't even keep the formula straight.

Another clarification we got is how much you can absorb per tick is: Some bullshit factor from EMC that we can't just be told for god knows why UP TO A MAX of (EL:W BONUS and some factor from Harnes Power we also can't be told for god knows why)

so EMC = how much you absorb, capped by HP/ELW

...you know, for now until we found out that was another wrong thing he said.

Does he at least know about infusing temper potions now?

[Tgo01]

Discord, Naos said he fucked up on the announcement. He can't even keep the formula straight.

Another clarification we got is how much you can absorb per tick is: Some bullshit factor from EMC that we can't just be told for god knows why UP TO A MAX of (EL:W BONUS and some factor from Harnes Power we also can't be told for god knows why)

so EMC = how much you absorb, capped by HP/ELW

...you know, for now until we found out that was another wrong thing he said.

Can't they at least throw us a bone? They want us figure all of this shit out, fine. Great. But at least give us exact numbers (or a small range of numbers) of how much energy we have stored up.

Enough for a +2 enchant tells us almost nothing. That's anywhere from 101 to 199. And it gets even more stupid as you get to the 25+ enchant range because then it's 2400 energy per enchant.

[Maerit]

I decided to update my warmage routine to include 519 evoke as the opener instead of stomping 909. Works fine. Not great for mana, and makes my hunt slower since I have to spend 3s RT for 519 instead of instant 909 stomp, but at least I can accrue essence until there's some warmage fixes in place.

[drumpel]

I decided to update my warmage routine to include 519 evoke as the opener instead of stomping 909. Works fine. Not great for mana, and makes my hunt slower since I have to spend 3s RT for 519 instead of instant 909 stomp, but at least I can accrue essence until there's some warmage fixes in place.

I bet if you ask Estild why high mana spells are required to build your essence, he'd reply with that crap "because wizards can leech mana".

I still hate how fucking tedious this change has made it. I can't spend all my waking hours hunting to slowly try to enchant something past 4x. This is fucking stupid. This change actually makes me not want to play because now it feel like a god damn chore to utilize enchant. It's not a fun change to see that several hours of hunting gives a paltry return in my efforts.

I guess I wait to see if anything changes as they "adjust" the spell before I make any final decisions about it all.

[Methais]

I bet if you ask Estild why high mana spells are required to build your essence, he'd reply with that crap "because wizards can leech mana".

This is correct. :lol:

[Donquix]

Can't they at least throw us a bone? They want us figure all of this shit out, fine. Great. But at least give us exact numbers (or a small range of numbers) of how much energy we have stored up.

Enough for a +2 enchant tells us almost nothing. That's anywhere from 101 to 199. And it gets even more stupid as you get to the 25+ enchant range because then it's 2400 energy per enchant.

A couple of people asked if we could get a way to track our progress, just in general like "you feel like you are halfway to being full of essence" and his response was, literally, "why would you want to know how close you are to the weekly cap?"

And I just closed discord. I deal with dumbfuck developers that are on the spectrum all day at work, that was enough of that for gemstone for the day. When you have to explain basic human nature to someone, it's just not worth the time.

[Methais]

A couple of people asked if we could get a way to track our progress, just in general like "you feel like you are halfway to being full of essence" and his response was, literally, "why would you want to know how close you are to the weekly cap?"

And I just closed discord. I deal with dumbfuck developers that are on the spectrum all day at work, that was enough of that for gemstone for the day. When you have to explain basic human nature to someone, it's just not worth the time.

:lol:

Fuck sake what's wrong with these people?

Also seen:


Naos 🌌Today at 12:34 PM
I don't want people to figure out the numbers perfectly.

[drauz]

:lol:

Fuck sake what's wrong with these people?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNuu9CpdjIo

[Methais]

Naos ��Today at 12:59 PM
What is the value in knowing how close you are to your cap?

https://i.imgflip.com/30e3nd.jpg

[Donquix]

:lol:

Fuck sake what's wrong with these people?

Also seen:


Naos ��Today at 12:34 PM
I don't want people to figure out the numbers perfectly.

Which is honestly a better tact. Like, "we don't want you to know this so you don't game the system or IMMERSION" is, fucking stupid...but, it's still while stupid, a relatively reasonable point of view. even if, again...fucking dumb.

But not even having the most modest amount of empathy to understand that people want to know they are at least making progress, and a general idea of how that progress is going, is a just straight up sperg bullshit.

[kutter]

Ok, I have this idea in my head about this and not sure how to express it. So my older mage who is 82 trains is a very typical build. Here are his relevant stats:

Arcane Symbols.....................| 216 116
Magic Item Use.....................| 216 116
Spell Aiming.......................| 268 168
Harness Power......................| 185 85
Elemental Mana Control.............| 184 84
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 105 25
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 90 20
Elemental Lore - Water.............| 25 5

First let me say, the hunting requirement, I am totally ok with. It is how they set things up that has me annoyed. If they take a build that is similar to mine and set up the system so that I can hunt off my gift, and have enchants take about the same time as before, then I would think this change was outstanding. It just seems to me, they should not make it any worse for me to hunt and enchant now then it did before, if I put in a reasonable amount of time. People that hunt more than just their gift will have an advantage, and that is how it should be, but not all of us have the time available to play 12-15 hours a week; just so I can get back to what I was doing at 6-8.

[Tgo01]

https://i.imgflip.com/30e3nd.jpg

Jesus. I was thinking the first quote from him could be sarcasm, because that's totally something I would say if someone suggested something for one of my scripts that was a really good and obvious idea. "Why would you want to know that?!" as I code in their suggestion.

But he is apparently straight up arguing with people now, demanding to know why they want to know how close they are to cap.

At this point I'm surprised they even told us what the weekly and total caps are.

The 925 release in an alternate reality:

"We updated 925. It now uses energy. Good luck!"

I guess we should count our lucky stars.

[Donquix]

So I parsed my logs for how many spell casts I've done since yesterday. Should only be things cast at something. I'm sure it's not entirely accurate but it's pretty close. The number number is # of spell casts I found in logs * cost for that spell. Any AoE was TARGETED at something, so should count

This is with 2x emc, 2x hp, 100 EL:w, 20 EL:F, 0 air, 0 earth


[tearbullshit: Cost for Call Wind: 84]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Chromatic Circle: 18]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Ice Patch: 372]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Cone of Lightning: 1332]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Boil Earth: 9690]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Elemental Disjunction: 5790]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Elemental Dispel: 34]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Elemental Wave: 1910]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Haste: 35] <--- lol typo for 435
[tearbullshit: Cost for Hurl Boulder: 10]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Immolation: 494]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Major Cold: 5432]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Major Elemental Wave: 525]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Major Fire: 40]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Major Shock: 920]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Mana Leech: 1696]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Minor Acid: 240]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Minor Shock: 12]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Minor Water: 1245]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Sandstorm: 14]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Slow: 20]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Stone Fist: 14]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Tremors: 9]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Weapon Fire: 15]
[tearbullshit: Total: 29951]

I am not capped on energy. It's actually missing a bunch of hurl boulders because i was CHANNELING them for a while, dicking around, and I didn't parse that correctly. I just noticed.

[Maerit]

Just a reminder for everyone freaking out about numbers and not being capped after X hours of hunting. Per discord from Estild:


If it ends up being 40 hours to reach your weekly limit, adjustments will be made. That's not the intent. For the time being, I recommend just hunting like normal and posting your numbers after you've used your Lumnis and some time after that.

So, do everyone a favor, and turn all this data over to the officials so the adjustments can be made.

[drumpel]

So I parsed my logs for how many spell casts I've done since yesterday. Should only be things cast at something. I'm sure it's not entirely accurate but it's pretty close. The number number is # of spell casts I found in logs * cost for that spell. Any AoE was TARGETED at something, so should count

This is with 2x emc, 2x hp, 100 EL:w, 20 EL:F, 0 air, 0 earth


[tearbullshit: Cost for Call Wind: 84]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Chromatic Circle: 18]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Ice Patch: 372]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Cone of Lightning: 1332]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Boil Earth: 9690]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Elemental Disjunction: 5790]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Elemental Dispel: 34]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Elemental Wave: 1910]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Haste: 35] <--- lol typo for 435
[tearbullshit: Cost for Hurl Boulder: 10]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Immolation: 494]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Major Cold: 5432]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Major Elemental Wave: 525]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Major Fire: 40]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Major Shock: 920]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Mana Leech: 1696]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Minor Acid: 240]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Minor Shock: 12]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Minor Water: 1245]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Sandstorm: 14]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Slow: 20]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Stone Fist: 14]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Tremors: 9]
[tearbullshit: Cost for Weapon Fire: 15]
[tearbullshit: Total: 29951]

I am not capped on energy. It's actually missing a bunch of hurl boulders because i was CHANNELING them for a while, dicking around, and I didn't parse that correctly. I just noticed.


What is your malfunction? You're using Sandstorm and Stone Fist??? Just stop it, stop it now.

[drumpel]

Just a reminder for everyone freaking out about numbers and not being capped after X hours of hunting. Per discord from Estild:



So, do everyone a favor, and turn all this data over to the officials so the adjustments can be made.

We shouldn't have to do their work for them. They released a spell that wasn't close to being done and now they want the players to critique it....fucking retards.

It's pretty easy to take a few wizards of various training levels, run them through a few hunts to get an idea of how long it takes, then do some basic math....I guess it seems like the GMs can't math.

[Donquix]

What is your malfunction? You're using Sandstorm and Stone Fist??? Just stop it, stop it now.

Look man, when i'm out there just spreading my mana seed over everything in sight I get bored, ok?

[BriarFox]

Data point: +26 at 1:30, +27 at 4:00, 2.5 hours for 2,400 essence. Pattern here was to hunt until I was out of mana, rest and get a full head back, and then go back out.

So, 1,000 essence per hour is doable for a double-capped mage 2x in HP/EMC and 1x in EL:W, but only if it's the only thing you're doing.

[Donquix]

Data point: +26 at 1:30, +27 at 4:00, 2.5 hours for 2,400 essence. Pattern here was to hunt until I was out of mana, rest and get a full head back, and then go back out.

So, 1,000 essence per hour is doable for a double-capped mage 2x in HP/EMC and 1x in EL:W, but only if it's the only thing you're doing.

I mean theorhetically you should be able to absorb all of your mana regen, at a certain point of HP/ELW/EMC. not even accounting for bonus static or whatever the fuck fire does at cap w/ 2x HP that is what....like 3500 mana an hour? give or take. Without any society abilities, but spending all your mana every pulse (and accounting for some fuzz of static generation)

[BriarFox]

I mean theorhetically you should be able to absorb all of your mana regen, at a certain point of HP/ELW/EMC. not even accounting for bonus static or whatever the fuck fire does at cap w/ 2x HP that is what....like 3500 mana an hour? give or take. Without any society abilities, but spending all your mana every pulse (and accounting for some fuzz of static generation)

So ... What you're saying is that I should find an unsancted node in the wild and drag a creature there and then keep it 410'd permanently. :P

[Donquix]

So ... What you're saying is that I should find an unsancted node in the wild and drag a creature there and then keep it 410'd permanently. :P

Static gen per mob is capped, feels like at about 100. so no :D

[Tgo01]

I wrote a simple little script that will track how much mana you have spent.



total_mana_spent = 0

add_it_all_up = proc{
total_mana_spent = 0
total_mana_spent += CharSettings['total_mana_from_501']
total_mana_spent += CharSettings['total_mana_from_516']
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_409_casts'] * 9)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_410_casts'] * 10)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_412_casts'] * 12)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_413_casts'] * 13)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_415_casts'] * 15)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_417_casts'] * 17)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_435_casts'] * 35)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_502_casts'] * 2)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_504_casts'] * 4)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_505_casts'] * 5)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_510_casts'] * 10)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_512_casts'] * 12)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_514_casts'] * 14)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_518_casts'] * 18)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_519_casts'] * 19)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_530_casts'] * 30)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_901_casts'] * 1)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_903_casts'] * 3)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_904_casts'] * 4)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_906_casts'] * 6)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_907_casts'] * 7)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_908_casts'] * 8)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_909_casts'] * 9)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_910_casts'] * 10)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_912_casts'] * 12)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_914_casts'] * 14)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_915_casts'] * 15)
total_mana_spent += (CharSettings['total_917_casts'] * 17)
echo "Total mana spent: #{total_mana_spent}"
}

reset = proc{
CharSettings['total_mana_from_501'] = 0
CharSettings['total_mana_from_516'] = 0
CharSettings['total_409_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_410_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_412_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_413_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_415_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_417_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_435_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_501_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_502_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_504_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_505_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_510_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_512_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_514_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_516_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_518_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_519_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_530_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_901_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_903_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_904_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_906_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_907_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_908_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_909_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_910_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_912_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_914_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_915_casts'] = 0
CharSettings['total_917_casts'] = 0
}

reset.call if CharSettings['total_917_casts'].nil?
reset.call if script.vars[1] =~ /reset/i

echo "409 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_409_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_409_casts'] > 0
echo "410 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_410_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_410_casts'] > 0
echo "412 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_412_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_412_casts'] > 0
echo "413 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_413_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_413_casts'] > 0
echo "415 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_415_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_415_casts'] > 0
echo "417 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_417_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_417_casts'] > 0
echo "435 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_435_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_435_casts'] > 0
echo "501 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_501_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_501_casts'] > 0
echo "502 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_502_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_502_casts'] > 0
echo "504 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_504_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_504_casts'] > 0
echo "505 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_505_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_505_casts'] > 0
echo "510 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_510_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_510_casts'] > 0
echo "512 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_512_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_512_casts'] > 0
echo "514 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_514_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_514_casts'] > 0
echo "516 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_516_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_516_casts'] > 0
echo "518 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_518_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_518_casts'] > 0
echo "519 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_519_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_519_casts'] > 0
echo "530 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_530_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_530_casts'] > 0
echo "901 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_901_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_901_casts'] > 0
echo "903 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_903_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_903_casts'] > 0
echo "904 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_904_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_904_casts'] > 0
echo "906 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_906_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_906_casts'] > 0
echo "907 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_907_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_907_casts'] > 0
echo "908 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_908_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_908_casts'] > 0
echo "909 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_909_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_909_casts'] > 0
echo "910 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_910_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_910_casts'] > 0
echo "912 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_912_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_912_casts'] > 0
echo "914 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_914_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_914_casts'] > 0
echo "915 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_915_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_915_casts'] > 0
echo "917 total casts: #{CharSettings['total_917_casts']}" if CharSettings['total_917_casts'] > 0
add_it_all_up.call
fput "sense"

loop{
wait_until { checkprep != "None" }
spell_being_cast = checkprep
if Char.level < 3
sleep_mana_cost = 1
elsif Char.level < 6
sleep_mana_cost = 2
elsif Char.level < 10
sleep_mana_cost = 3
elsif Char.level < 15
sleep_mana_cost = 4
elsif Char.level < 21
sleep_mana_cost = 5
elsif Char.level < 28
sleep_mana_cost = 6
elsif Char.level < 36
sleep_mana_cost = 7
elsif Char.level < 45
sleep_mana_cost = 8
elsif Char.level < 55
sleep_mana_cost = 9
elsif Char.level < 66
sleep_mana_cost = 10
elsif Char.level < 78
sleep_mana_cost = 11
elsif Char.level < 91
sleep_mana_cost = 12
else
sleep_mana_cost = 13
end

mana_before = checkmana if spell_being_cast == "Sleep"

while line = get
if line =~ /^You feel the magic of your spell rush away from you\.|^You feel the magic of your spell depart\.|^Cast Roundtime/
break
elsif line =~ /^You gesture|^You channel/
if spell_being_cast == "Sleep"
mana_cost = mana_before - checkmana
mana_cost = sleep_mana_cost if mana_cost < 0
CharSettings['total_501_casts'] += 1
CharSettings['total_mana_from_501'] += mana_cost
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_501_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Chromatic Circle"
CharSettings['total_502_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_502_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Slow"
CharSettings['total_504_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_504_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Hand of Tonis"
CharSettings['total_505_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_505_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Hurl Boulder"
CharSettings['total_510_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_510_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Cold Snap"
CharSettings['total_512_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_512_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Stone Fist"
CharSettings['total_514_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_514_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Mana Leech"
while line = get
if line =~ /Warded off\!/
mana_cost = 16
break
elsif line =~ /Warding failed\!/
mana_cost = 1
break
elsif line =~ /Cast Roundtime/
break
end
end
CharSettings['total_mana_from_516'] += mana_cost
CharSettings['total_516_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_516_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Cone of Elements"
CharSettings['total_518_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_518_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Immolation"
CharSettings['total_519_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_519_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Elemental Disjunction"
CharSettings['total_530_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_530_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Elemental Blast"
CharSettings['total_409_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_409_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Elemental Wave"
CharSettings['total_410_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_410_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Weapon Deflection"
CharSettings['total_412_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_412_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Elemental Saturation"
CharSettings['total_413_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_413_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Elemental Strike"
CharSettings['total_415_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_415_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Elemental Dispel"
CharSettings['total_417_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_417_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Major Elemental Wave"
CharSettings['total_435_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_435_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Minor Shock"
CharSettings['total_901_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_901_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Minor Water"
CharSettings['total_903_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_903_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Minor Acid"
CharSettings['total_904_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_904_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Minor Fire"
CharSettings['total_906_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_906_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Major Cold"
CharSettings['total_907_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_907_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Major Fire"
CharSettings['total_908_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_908_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Tremors"
CharSettings['total_909_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_909_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Major Shock"
CharSettings['total_910_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_910_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Call Wind"
CharSettings['total_912_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_912_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Sandstorm"
CharSettings['total_914_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_914_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Weapon Fire"
CharSettings['total_915_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_915_casts']}"
elsif spell_being_cast == "Earthen Fury"
CharSettings['total_917_casts'] += 1
echo "#{spell_being_cast} total casts: #{CharSettings['total_917_casts']}"
end
add_it_all_up.call
break
end
end
}


This script only works if you prep spells then cast them, it won't work if you INCANT spells.

Here is an example of what it does when you start it up:


--- Lich: aaa active.
[aaa: 412 total casts: 1]
[aaa: 501 total casts: 8]
[aaa: 502 total casts: 1]
[aaa: 901 total casts: 3]
[aaa: 903 total casts: 2]
[aaa: Total mana spent: 39]
[aaa]>sense
You study your surroundings and use your keen knowledge of the arcane. It quickly becomes evident that this room is not a magical workshop.

You sense that you have not accumulated any essence for enchanting. However, you are certain you could still manage a +1 enchantment.

It will list how many times you have cast each spell that you have cast at least once and how much total mana you have spent.

Then keep the script running in the background and here is what it says after casting:


>You gesture at a rolton.
CS: +445 - TD: +3 + CvA: +25 + d100: +98 == +565
Warding failed!
A rolton's eyes roll up into her head as she slumps to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
[aaa: Sleep total casts: 9]
[aaa: Total mana spent: 40]

This script does not track the level of the target you are casting at (so it has no idea if you are even gaining energy or not, that's up to you) nor does it tell the difference between a critter or another player, it assumes all offensive casts are at critters. It also assumes you cast spells AT something (for example I have no idea if open casting 435 doesn't count for whatever reason.) It doesn't track non-offensive spells.

It should count successful Mana Leech casts as only costing 1 mana and unsuccessful casts as 16 mana.

It should accurately keep track of how much mana Sleep costs by comparing your current mana before and after casting, but if you prep 501 then get a pulse then cast Sleep the mana cost would be a negative number. If mana cost is less than 0 then the script will go by your level to determine how much mana sleep probably cost, if this ends up happening it won't necessarily be 100% accurate because the cost goes by the critter level, not your level, but it will be good enough for the very rare times this will ever be a problem.

If you want to reset the stats simply kill the script then start it up again with "reset" as the command line variable.

[AnOrdim]

Any way to detect when there is a pulse and store the mana totals for the last 10 pulses? that would be better for chopping up how much mana was spent before the pulse hit and trying to figure out how much static you might have generated.

[Tgo01]

Any way to detect when there is a pulse and store the mana totals for the last 10 pulses? that would be better for chopping up how much mana was spent before the pulse hit and trying to figure out how much static you might have generated.

Honestly I've only been half paying attention to how this new enchant shit even works, I just know it goes by how much mana you use on critters now.

Give me the tl;dr version of how mana pulses factor in?

The only thing I can think of to determine a pulse is to keep a running total of your current mana and if it ever goes up by your exact mana pulse amount it will assume a mana pulse has happened. Of course the only problem then would be using a society ability or using mana leech that happens to give you the same amount of mana as a pulse.

[AnOrdim]

Honestly I've only been half paying attention to how this new enchant shit even works, I just know it goes by how much mana you use on critters now.

Give me the tl;dr version of how mana pulses factor in?

The only thing I can think of to determine a pulse is to keep a running total of your current mana and if it ever goes up by your exact mana pulse amount it will assume a mana pulse has happened. Of course the only problem then would be using a society ability or using mana leech that happens to give you the same amount of mana as a pulse.

So the quick and dirty is: You generate "static" from casting offensive spells. That static can only be absorbed when you pulse. Any extra is most likely lost and you have to generate more for the next pulse. If you have no static when you pulse you dont make any essence.

[Tgo01]

So the quick and dirty is: You generate "static" from casting offensive spells. That static can only be absorbed when you pulse. Any extra is most likely lost and you have to generate more for the next pulse. If you have no static when you pulse you dont make any essence.

Ah, so we're trying to figure out how much static we get per pulse.

Like I said the only thing I can think of is the mana gain thing but that would run into problems with society abilities and mana leech. I suppose I could also track how much spirit the person has and if their spirit dropped by 5 it can ignore that mana gain. Symbol of mana would be a problem if the person's mana regen is exactly 50 or the symbol brings them to full mana. And people can just not use mana leech I suppose. Same problem goes for GoS ability though. I'm open to ideas on how to track a mana pulse.

Only thing is the sense verb doesn't really give us much information to go by, especially when people have saved up enough static for 25+ enchants.

[AnOrdim]

Ah, so we're trying to figure out how much static we get per pulse.

Like I said the only thing I can think of is the mana gain thing but that would run into problems with society abilities and mana leech. I suppose I could also track how much spirit the person has and if their spirit dropped by 5 it can ignore that mana gain. Symbol of mana would be a problem if the person's mana regen is exactly 50. And people can just not use mana leech I suppose.

Only thing is the sense verb doesn't really give us much information to go by, especially when people have saved up enough static for 25+ enchants.

Probably not worth putting TOO much more effort into it then. Apparently, they have acknowledged that things are going to change, they are just working out the details before making the changes to the changes.

[Donquix]

Honestly I've only been half paying attention to how this new enchant shit even works, I just know it goes by how much mana you use on critters now.

Give me the tl;dr version of how mana pulses factor in?

The only thing I can think of to determine a pulse is to keep a running total of your current mana and if it ever goes up by your exact mana pulse amount it will assume a mana pulse has happened. Of course the only problem then would be using a society ability or using mana leech that happens to give you the same amount of mana as a pulse.

There's basically a buffer layer between mana spent -> essence gained (naos called it "static build up")

Casting spells generates static. The amount of static generated is dependent on skills of who the fuck knows Naos can't even get it right when he talks about it, applied to the mana spent and modfied by the level of the target compared to yours. that static sits there, doing nothing and completely unable to be checked how much you have, because fuck you.

when a mana pulse happens, some amount of static is converted from "static" to the "essence" you actually need to enchant. Some formula based around EMC, with the upper bound being EL:W bonus + Some factor of Harness Power (so EMC factor, which we don't know, or EL:W / hp factor, whichever is less).

Any unabsorbed "static" is lost on the mana pulse and you go back to 0, unless you have 5+ ranks of air lore then some percentage carries over and remains in the "static" bucket.

[Tgo01]

There's basically a buffer layer between mana spent -> essence gained (naos called it "static build up")

Casting spells generates static. The amount of static generated is dependent on skills of who the fuck knows Naos can't even get it right when he talks about it, applied to the mana spent and modfied by the level of the target compared to yours. that static sits there, doing nothing and completely unable to be checked how much you have, because fuck you.

when a mana pulse happens, some amount of static is converted from "static" to the "essence" you actually need to enchant. Some formula based around EMC, with the upper bound being EL:W bonus + Some factor of Harness Power (so EMC factor, which we don't know, or EL:W / hp factor, whichever is less).

Any unabsorbed "static" is lost on the mana pulse and you go back to 0, unless you have 5+ ranks of air lore then some percentage carries over and remains in the "static" bucket.

Jesus tapdancing Christ. That's even more complicated than I thought.

I guess a simple "Kill X number of like level critters" was too easy to code?

[Gelston]

Jesus tapdancing Christ. That's even more complicated than I thought.

I guess a simple "Kill X number of like level critters" was too easy to code?

You're so basic.

[Donquix]

Jesus tapdancing Christ. That's even more complicated than I thought.

I guess a simple "Kill X number of like level critters" was too easy to code?

Pretty much. I think (hope?) i'm close to capping for the week, but still not fucking there, and i've spent at least 36k mana. With a nearly ideal build as far as we've been told.

A sorcerer with 0 ranks of necrolore would have to average 36 mana per kill for that, assuming they're on average killing things == level. And wouldn't be punished for killing the thing too fast.

[drumpel]

There's basically a buffer layer between mana spent -> essence gained (naos called it "static build up")

Casting spells generates static. The amount of static generated is dependent on skills of who the fuck knows Naos can't even get it right when he talks about it, applied to the mana spent and modfied by the level of the target compared to yours. that static sits there, doing nothing and completely unable to be checked how much you have, because fuck you.

when a mana pulse happens, some amount of static is converted from "static" to the "essence" you actually need to enchant. Some formula based around EMC, with the upper bound being EL:W bonus + Some factor of Harness Power (so EMC factor, which we don't know, or EL:W / hp factor, whichever is less).

Any unabsorbed "static" is lost on the mana pulse and you go back to 0, unless you have 5+ ranks of air lore then some percentage carries over and remains in the "static" bucket.

https://y.yarn.co/d8baa429-0e4b-4186-92d2-4033ea0d1af5_text_hi.gif


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOQnHB9JDG0

[Donquix]

Just feed Naos your data.

But no worries guys, I have a feeling it’s going to turn out fine (definitely less than 25 hours a week of non-min maxed hunting). I say this because I suspect it’s some part of Wyrom’s plan to get us all moving toward the higher end of enchants etc. for simucoin/itemization purposes of course.

It's fine. He farmed it using a script on a character with unlimited mana to make sure it worked real good.

(that was an answer to "uh, this seems kinda slow")

[Tgo01]

Okay so I revamped the script and uploaded it as ;mana-tracking

From the script's description:


Keep track of how much mana you have spent for all of your 925 needs!

This script does all sorts of stuff!

It will keep track of how much mana you have spent on offensive spells since the last time you reset the stats.
It will keep track of mana pulses and check to see if you have gained another enchantment level since the last check.
It will keep track of how much mana you have spent on offensive spells since the last enchantment level.
It will keep track of how many pulses since your the last enchantment level.

The script requires you to not use any custom spell prep messages so the script turns those off automatically. If you want them on afterwards be sure to turn them back on.

There are some limitations due to the way I track mana pulses:

Using Sign of Wracking is fine, however using any other society ability that gives mana will mess with the pulse tracking. So don't do it! This includes: Sigil of Concentration, Sigil of Power, and Symbol of Mana.
Using mana leech and it gives you back exactly how much mana you gain on or off a node, or if the cast brings you up to 100% mana. This is up to you so watch it.
If someone sends you mana and the send gives you back exactly how much mana you gain on or off a node, or if the mana received brings you up to 100% mana. Again up to you.

If you don't care about pulse tracking then you don't have to worry about using any mana boosting abilities.

To reset all stats to 0 start script as: ;mana-tracking reset

Script will keep track of all stats until reset, even if you kill the script or log off the game.

I've decided to take a page out of Simu's handbook and am going to let you all test it for me to find any bugs. I did test the basics to make sure it all works but I might have missed something here and there, but the script should echo back to you the important things so if it doesn't then that's a problem. Let me know.

Also I know the pulse tracking isn't perfect but it's the best I could come up with. I could track experience pulses and wouldn't have to worry about mana, but then I figured what happens if there is a pulse but the ol' noggin is empty? Although maybe your static would be empty if the head was empty? I'm not sure. Let me know if you think the experience thing works better and I might update the script to make use of that instead and we wouldn't have all of these mana gaining problems.

So for example let's say when you started the script SENSE says you're able to do a +3 enchant. On every mana pulse the script does a SENSE to see if this has changed (ideally if it's higher, actually performing an enchant without resetting the stats is gonna mess with this part), so once it gets to +4 the script SHOULD (this is where your testing comes into play) tell you how many pulses it has been sense it first saw +3 via SENSE and how much mana you spent during those pulses. It will keep track of total mana spent until you reset the stats. All of these stats (pulses, current mana, total mana, etc) is all stored until you reset the stats, even if you logoff, so the only problem would be if you killed the script and a few pulses went by then you logged off and started the script again the next day. If you keep the script running until you logoff then the number of pulses and all of that should remain accurate.

The spell also casts 401 when you're at 100% mana so it can know when a mana pulse happened.

Oh yeah the script should work for all spell casting: prep the spell first then cast, using INCANT, etc. Making INCANT work means the "Sleep" spell won't be as accurate but it should still be good enough. When casting "Sleep" the script now calculates the mana cost based on your level rather than the level of the critter you are casting at.

[Fallen]

Very nice, TGo01.

[Tgo01]

I decided to just go by experience pulses instead of mana pulses because it makes more sense I think.

Here is what I have so far when I tested it, going from +1 to +2:



[mana-tracking: Total mana spent: 540]
[mana-tracking: Current mana spent: 540]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 2]
[mana-tracking: Mana spent since last enchant update: 540]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 2]
[mana-tracking: Average mana per pulse: 270]


I ran into a snag though and currently fixing it before I reupload the script.

[Tgo01]

Well this is interesting, not sure how it happened:


[mana-tracking: Total mana spent: 375]
[mana-tracking: Current mana spent: 375]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 1]
[mana-tracking: Enchant has been updated!]
[mana-tracking: Skills: EMC: 202, Air: 50, Earth: 50, Fire: 100, 0]
[mana-tracking: Starting enchant since last reset: 3]
[mana-tracking: Going from +3 to +5]
[mana-tracking: Mana spent since last enchant update: 375]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 1]
[mana-tracking: Average mana per pulse: 375]

I get I was probably already close to +4 when I started the script, but I went from +3 to +5 in one pulse of 375 mana. Gonna do more testing then upload this bad boy to the repo.

[Donquix]

Well this is interesting, not sure how it happened:


[mana-tracking: Total mana spent: 375]
[mana-tracking: Current mana spent: 375]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 1]
[mana-tracking: Enchant has been updated!]
[mana-tracking: Skills: EMC: 202, Air: 50, Earth: 50, Fire: 100, 0]
[mana-tracking: Starting enchant since last reset: 3]
[mana-tracking: Going from +3 to +5]
[mana-tracking: Mana spent since last enchant update: 375]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 1]
[mana-tracking: Average mana per pulse: 375]

I get I was probably already close to +4 when I started the script, but I went from +3 to +5 in one pulse of 375 mana. Gonna do more testing then upload this bad boy to the repo.

If you are 2x hp+ HP, looks like 0 water? I imagine even with just 300ish HP bonus you can absorb a good chunk. Every time I dump ma load I go up 200+

[Tgo01]

If you are 2x hp+ HP, looks like 0 water? I imagine even with just 300ish HP bonus you can absorb a good chunk. Every time I dump ma load I go up 200+

Yeah 256 HP and 0 water lore. I guess I wasn't expecting to get energy as fast as I was. Of course once I get to 25+ enchants it's going to slow down a lot.

[Tgo01]

[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: Enchant has been updated!]
[companion-mana-tracking: Skills: EMC: 202, Air: 50, Earth: 50, Fire: 100, Water: 0]
[companion-mana-tracking: Starting enchant since last reset: 24]
[companion-mana-tracking: Going from +24 to +25]
[companion-mana-tracking: Mana spent since last enchant update: 780]
[companion-mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 1]
[companion-mana-tracking: Average mana per pulse: 780]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]


Okay so I think the script is looking pretty good.

The script is on the repo as ;mana-tracking

YOU MUST ALSO DOWNLOAD ;companion-mana-tracking FOR ;mana-tracking TO WORK PROPERLY.

THERE IS NO NEED TO START ;companion-mana-tracking BECAUSE ;mana-tracking WILL START IT AUTOMATICALLY.

THERE IS ALSO NO NEED TO STOP ;companion-mana-tracking BECAUSE ;mana-tracking WILL STOP IT AUTOMATICALLY.

THERE IS ALSO NO NEED TO RESET STATS ON ;companion-mana-tracking BECAUSE RESETTING STATS ON ;mana-tracking WILL AUTOMATICALLY RESET STATS ON ;companion mana-tracking

So basically you just need to download ;companion-mana-tracking then ;mana-tracking will handle the rest.

Sorry for the caps, just want to make sure everyone sees it. I really hate doing two scripts like this but it was the easiest way I could think of to get everything working all nicely and pretty. And it's working pretty well from what I've tested of it.

What I might add tomorrow is for the script to not count pulses if you haven't cast an offensive spell since the last pulse. That way you can leave the script running and it will only count pulses when you have actually cast a spell recently.

But other than that I think it's pretty gosh darn good.

Oh yeah I went ahead and made it so the script compares experience differences to determine a pulse instead of mana, so now you don’t have to worry about using mana leach, society abilities, receiving mana from other people, etc.

[AnOrdim]

Nice, I'll give this a shot later today. Thanks for making it.

Hopefully they end up going back to the exp absorb situation with lores tweaking it or something.

[drumpel]

info about ;mana-tracking and such

Neat script, nice work on it.

I find it more depressing to use it than not to use it. Now I'm constantly reminded after each cast of how much mana I've spent and how painfully slow I am earning the next +1 to my enchant prowess.

6 hunts down (over 6000 mana used) and I just hit the message that I can now enchant something to +7.

I appreciate the hard work on it and hopefully it can be something I can get myself to use if they actually fix how slow of a trickle this whole system is.

[Methais]

Look man, when i'm out there just spreading my mana seed over everything in sight I get bored, ok?

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DimwittedImpeccableIndri-small.gif

[Methais]

Jesus tapdancing Christ. That's even more complicated than I thought.

I guess a simple "Kill X number of like level critters" was too easy to code?

https://i.imgur.com/AtOppFm.png

[Methais]

It's fine. He farmed it using a script on a character with unlimited mana to make sure it worked real good.

(that was an answer to "uh, this seems kinda slow")

And has no idea what his lore setup was.

[Tgo01]

Updated both ;mana-tracking AND ;companion-mana-tracking

Be sure to redownload both if you're using them and you want in on these awesome new features.

The script now starts keeping track of how much time you have spent casting offensive spells as soon as you cast an offensive spell. The script stops tracking this time 4 minutes after your last offensive spell was cast, but this time will be saved and will be added to as soon as you start casting an offensive spell again.

For example you cast an offensive spell which starts the clock, you're casting offensive spells for 8 minutes (without a break longer than 4 minutes during this 8 minute period), then you go to town to rest for 10 minutes. After 4 minutes you will get this message:

[mana-tracking: You haven't cast an offensive spell in 4 minutes. Time will not be counted until you cast an offensive spell again.]

And the script should stop tracking time, resulting in the script clocking you in for 12 minutes of casting no matter how long you rest after this point. The process starts over again once you cast an offensive spell.

This also works for tracking pulses, the script should stop tracking pulses after you get the 4 minute message.

Here is an example of the stats it tracks now:

[mana-tracking: Elemental Strike total casts: 16]
[mana-tracking: Total:]
[mana-tracking: Mana spent: 240]
[mana-tracking: Time spent casting (minutes:seconds): 1:33]
[mana-tracking: ####################]
[mana-tracking: Since last enchant update:]
[mana-tracking: Mana spent: 240]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses: 2]
[mana-tracking: Time spent casting (minutes:seconds): 1:33]

I tested these new features but it might not be perfect. I'm doing this Simu-style, baby!

Keep in mind these new stats are also saved until you reset them by doing ;mana-tracking reset

The current "Time spent casting" is automatically reset after your enchant number has been updated.

[Tgo01]

Realized a bug in ;companion-mana-tracking and have already uploaded a new version. So if you downloaded ;companion-mana-tracking in between my last post and this post you should download it again.

In the old version it would stop checking for enchant updates as well as stop tracking pulses after the 4 minute message, the latest version should just stop tracking the number of pulses after the 4 minute message.

So it's possible you might get an enchant update after 4 minutes (who the hell even knows if that's possible) but the script stops tracking pulses after 4 minutes, so the pulse figure might not be 100% accurate depending on how this even works but it will be darn close enough.

[BriarFox]

I don't have time to do this right now, but it occurred to me that it's actually fairly easy to test out what contributes to essence gain and in what proportion. You would need to jump into the test server, dump all your HP/EL:E/EMC, etc, and then used contained spells (like 910, which is easy to track for mana spent) until you hit +1 (100 essence). You then enchant some crap gear to +1 to get rid of all your essence (you could also keep going, but this way you know you have a baseline) and you bump a skill and repeat. Eventually you'd have enough numbers to figure out rough proportions at least.

[Methais]

I don't have time to do this right now, but it occurred to me that it's actually fairly easy to test out what contributes to essence gain and in what proportion. You would need to jump into the test server, dump all your HP/EL:E/EMC, etc, and then used contained spells (like 910, which is easy to track for mana spent) until you hit +1 (100 essence). You then enchant some crap gear to +1 to get rid of all your essence (you could also keep going, but this way you know you have a baseline) and you bump a skill and repeat. Eventually you'd have enough numbers to figure out rough proportions at least.

"Due to players testing 925, we have disabled 925 on the test server." -Naos, probably

[Tgo01]

"Due to players testing 925, we have disabled 925 on the test server." -Naos, probably

"Why would you want to test 925 on the test server?"

[Methais]

"Why would you want to test 925 on the test server?"

Naos ��Today at 2:51 PM
It's kind of cheating since you have the test server now.

:lol:

[Donquix]

I think that part was a little tongue in cheek, but all the rest of his defensive complaining today was actually stupid.

[adred]

I gained about 6000 exp today, no lumnis... creature bounties only.. hunting well over fried... started at +25... still at +25

[Askip]

My favorite quote from the officials: "...we are working out the kinks...Wyrom"

What was the fucking rush in the first place? Simu had to know they would get blowback either way, so why not take the time to get <gasp> customer input beforehand?

:(

[adred]

My favorite quote from the officials: "...we are working out the kinks...Wyrom"

What was the fucking rush in the first place? Simu had to know they would get blowback either way, so why not take the time to get <gasp> customer input beforehand?

:(

Great strategy to get game development for free via the community.

[Askip]

Great strategy to get game development for free via the community.

Rep worthy. :D

[Fortybox]

My favorite quote from the officials: "...we are working out the kinks...Wyrom"

What was the fucking rush in the first place? Simu had to know they would get blowback either way, so why not take the time to get <gasp> customer input beforehand?

:(

Because they didn't anticipate the amount of mega butthurt people would have over this. I actually like the change and think Simu did something right.

[adred]

Because they didn't anticipate the amount of mega butthurt people would have over this. I actually like the change and think Simu did something right.

Hope Wrathbringer's shart hole, and Methais' dick stay super wet for you.

[Donquix]

Because they didn't anticipate the amount of mega butthurt people would have over this. I actually like the change and think Simu did something right.

It's overall a better system, it's just tuned a little off and Estild and Naos being 'spergs and Wyrom not doing his job and communicating with people = dumpster fire.

If they would have just put this on the PTR we could have had this figured out without all the drama. Whatevs.

[adred]

It's overall a better system, it's just tuned a little off and Estild and Naos being 'spergs and Wyrom not doing his job and communicating with people = dumpster fire.

If they would have just put this on the PTR we could have had this figured out without all the drama. Whatevs.

the system is junk... +46 on t5 lowsteel = easy.... +31 on lowsteel t5 stringed item is easy... but +33 on a t5 runestaff... completely impossible

[Tgo01]

Can someone check my math here to see if I have it right? I'm trying to update my ;mana-tracking script to keep track of how much energy you have gained since you last reset the stats so you can check to see how close you are to your weekly cap. It would be simple enough if people never actually used their energy, but I'm trying to keep track of energy even if people use their energy to perform enchants.

To do this the script is going to do a SENSE whenever you use 925 and also whenever it notices a pulse. The script then grabs the + part from the SENSE and keeps checking to see if the new SENSE information is different.

For example let's say you first start up the script and SENSE says "You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +15 enchantment." 15 will be saved to the "original_enchant_possible" variable. It then keeps checking after every pulse and if the two numbers don't match, let's say for example the next pulse shows a +16, then the 16 gets saved as the "current_enchant_possible" variable. So in this example it would mean you gained 100 energy and that 100 gets saved to another variable. Then when you get to +17 that's another 100 and it's added to the original 100 for a total of 200. Easy enough so far. The problem is when we get to the dreaded 25 bonus range and everything gets more complicated.

So does this math look right to account for all of that?

Here's the code:


original_enchant_possible = 1
current_enchant_possible = 50
difference = current_enchant_possible - original_enchant_possible
if current_enchant_possible < 25
total_essense_gained += (difference * 100)
else
if original_enchant_possible < 25
math = (current_enchant_possible - difference)
math = (25 - math)
total_essense_gained += (math * 100)
math = (current_enchant_possible - 24)
total_essense_gained += (math * 2400)
else
total_essense_gained += (difference * 2400)
end
end


I know it's impossible but this is just for the sake of testing, if you started with +1 enchant and the next pulse showed you could do a +50, the above math says you gained 64,800 essence, does that sound right?

Going from +20 to +30 shows a gain of 14,900 energy.

Going from +10 to +20 shows a gain of 1000 energy.

Going from +25 to +27 shows a gain of 4800 energy.

Going from +26 to +35 shows a gain of 21,600.

Does that all look right? Anything I should change? Much appreciated.

[Tgo01]

Unless of course the GMs have already said they are going to make it so you can see essence gained, in which case I just wasted my time :O

[AnOrdim]

Unless of course the GMs have already said they are going to make it so you can see essence gained, in which case I just wasted my time :O

The best we got is "they are working on tweaking things" that could mean anything from a completely new system to shifting numbers around, and everything in between.

[Fortybox]

Hope Wrathbringer's shart hole, and Methais' dick stay super wet for you.

:lol:

[Fallen]

Can someone check my math here to see if I have it right? I'm trying to update my ;mana-tracking script to keep track of how much energy you have gained since you last reset the stats so you can check to see how close you are to your weekly cap. It would be simple enough if people never actually used their energy, but I'm trying to keep track of energy even if people use their energy to perform enchants.

To do this the script is going to do a SENSE whenever you use 925 and also whenever it notices a pulse. The script then grabs the + part from the SENSE and keeps checking to see if the new SENSE information is different.

For example let's say you first start up the script and SENSE says "You sense that you have accumulated enough essence to complete a +15 enchantment." 15 will be saved to the "original_enchant_possible" variable. It then keeps checking after every pulse and if the two numbers don't match, let's say for example the next pulse shows a +16, then the 16 gets saved as the "current_enchant_possible" variable. So in this example it would mean you gained 100 energy and that 100 gets saved to another variable. Then when you get to +17 that's another 100 and it's added to the original 100 for a total of 200. Easy enough so far. The problem is when we get to the dreaded 25 bonus range and everything gets more complicated.

So does this math look right to account for all of that?

Here's the code:


original_enchant_possible = 1
current_enchant_possible = 50
difference = current_enchant_possible - original_enchant_possible
if current_enchant_possible < 25
total_essense_gained += (difference * 100)
else
if original_enchant_possible < 25
math = (current_enchant_possible - difference)
math = (25 - math)
total_essense_gained += (math * 100)
math = (current_enchant_possible - 24)
total_essense_gained += (math * 2400)
else
total_essense_gained += (difference * 2400)
end
end


I know it's impossible but this is just for the sake of testing, if you started with +1 enchant and the next pulse showed you could do a +50, the above math says you gained 64,800 essence, does that sound right?

Going from +20 to +30 shows a gain of 14,900 energy.

Going from +10 to +20 shows a gain of 1000 energy.

Going from +25 to +27 shows a gain of 4800 energy.

Going from +26 to +35 shows a gain of 21,600.

Does that all look right? Anything I should change? Much appreciated.

Your efforts and those of other scripters should show them the futility of trying to obfuscate data. With any luck, they'll give up on that nonsense and simply make the system transparent.

[Taernath]

Your efforts and those of other scripters should show them the futility of trying to obfuscate data. With any luck, they'll give up on that nonsense and simply make the system transparent.

The GMs have about 30 year's worth of black box design dogma, it's probably not going anywhere.

[Riltus]

I know it's impossible but this is just for the sake of testing, if you started with +1 enchant and the next pulse showed you could do a +50, the above math says you gained 64,800 essence, does that sound right?

Going from +20 to +30 shows a gain of 14,900 energy.

Going from +10 to +20 shows a gain of 1000 energy.

Going from +25 to +27 shows a gain of 4800 energy.

Going from +26 to +35 shows a gain of 21,600.

Does that all look right? Anything I should change? Much appreciated.

There are some errors.

This is the link to the table I posted: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?120230-Spring-spectacular-925&p=2101251#post2101251

The second column (destination) in the table is the +X enchant messaging, and the third column (cost) represents the minimum accumulated essence associated with that value. For example, the corresponding cost for a +20 enchant in the destination column is 1,900. The messaging will change to +21 when 2000 essence has been accumulated. The +30 destination entry has a corresponding cost of 14,400 essence. The cost difference between the +30 and +20 enchants is (14,400 - 1,900) = 12,500. That 12,500 is the essence accumulated from +20 to +30 messaging. You've calculated that amount to be 14,900.

The +1 to +50 gain isn't 64,800. It is 62,400 which represents the cost to do a +49 to +50 enchant. There is no +1 messaging since the initial enchant from 0 to +1 is a freebie. Up to a +25 enchant the cost is always (destination enchant bonus * 100) - 100)). So a +24 to +25 enchant costs (25 * 100) - 100)) = 2400.

Reviewing each one:

+1 to +50 (62,400 - 0) = 62,400
+20 to +30 (14,400 - 1,900) = 12,500
+10 to +20 (1,900 - 900) = 1,000
+25 to +27 (7,200 - 2,400) = 4,800
+26 to +35 (28,800 - 4,800) = 21,600

Mark

[Tgo01]

There are some errors.

This is the link to the table I posted: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?120230-Spring-spectacular-925&p=2101251#post2101251

The second column (destination) in the table is the +X enchant messaging, and the third column (cost) represents the minimum accumulated essence associated with that value. For example, the corresponding cost for a +20 enchant in the destination column is 1,900. The messaging will change to +21 when 2000 essence has been accumulated. The +30 destination entry has a corresponding cost of 14,400 essence. The cost difference between the +30 and +20 enchants is (14,400 - 1,900) = 12,500. That 12,500 is the essence accumulated from +20 to +30 messaging. You've calculated that amount to be 14,900.

The +1 to +50 gain isn't 64,800. It is 62,400 which represents the cost to do a +49 to +50 enchant. There is no +1 messaging since the initial enchant from 0 to +1 is a freebie. Up to a +25 enchant the cost is always (destination enchant bonus * 100) - 100)). So a +24 to +25 enchant costs (25 * 100) - 100)) = 2400.

Reviewing each one:

+1 to +50 (62,400 - 0) = 62,400
+20 to +30 (14,400 - 1,900) = 12,500
+10 to +20 (1,900 - 900) = 1,000
+25 to +27 (7,200 - 2,400) = 4,800
+26 to +35 (28,800 - 4,800) = 21,600

Mark

Awesome, thanks for taking a look at my math. Gonna get this coded up soon so people can track their weekly energy gain. No idea why people would want to know that though :O

[Riltus]

...Gonna get this coded up soon so people can track their weakly energy gain...

Fixed!

Mark

[Tgo01]

There are some errors.

This is the link to the table I posted: http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?120230-Spring-spectacular-925&p=2101251#post2101251

The second column (destination) in the table is the +X enchant messaging, and the third column (cost) represents the minimum accumulated essence associated with that value. For example, the corresponding cost for a +20 enchant in the destination column is 1,900. The messaging will change to +21 when 2000 essence has been accumulated. The +30 destination entry has a corresponding cost of 14,400 essence. The cost difference between the +30 and +20 enchants is (14,400 - 1,900) = 12,500. That 12,500 is the essence accumulated from +20 to +30 messaging. You've calculated that amount to be 14,900.

The +1 to +50 gain isn't 64,800. It is 62,400 which represents the cost to do a +49 to +50 enchant. There is no +1 messaging since the initial enchant from 0 to +1 is a freebie. Up to a +25 enchant the cost is always (destination enchant bonus * 100) - 100)). So a +24 to +25 enchant costs (25 * 100) - 100)) = 2400.

Reviewing each one:

+1 to +50 (62,400 - 0) = 62,400
+20 to +30 (14,400 - 1,900) = 12,500
+10 to +20 (1,900 - 900) = 1,000
+25 to +27 (7,200 - 2,400) = 4,800
+26 to +35 (28,800 - 4,800) = 21,600

Mark

This should do it then I think:


[aaa: +1 to +2: Energy gained 100]
[aaa: +1 to +3: Energy gained 200]
[aaa: +1 to +4: Energy gained 300]
[aaa: +1 to +5: Energy gained 400]
[aaa: +1 to +6: Energy gained 500]
[aaa: +1 to +7: Energy gained 600]
[aaa: +1 to +8: Energy gained 700]
[aaa: +1 to +9: Energy gained 800]
[aaa: +1 to +10: Energy gained 900]
[aaa: +1 to +11: Energy gained 1000]
[aaa: +1 to +12: Energy gained 1100]
[aaa: +1 to +13: Energy gained 1200]
[aaa: +1 to +14: Energy gained 1300]
[aaa: +1 to +15: Energy gained 1400]
[aaa: +1 to +16: Energy gained 1500]
[aaa: +1 to +17: Energy gained 1600]
[aaa: +1 to +18: Energy gained 1700]
[aaa: +1 to +19: Energy gained 1800]
[aaa: +1 to +20: Energy gained 1900]
[aaa: +1 to +21: Energy gained 2000]
[aaa: +1 to +22: Energy gained 2100]
[aaa: +1 to +23: Energy gained 2200]
[aaa: +1 to +24: Energy gained 2300]
[aaa: +1 to +25: Energy gained 2400]
[aaa: +1 to +26: Energy gained 4800]
[aaa: +1 to +27: Energy gained 7200]
[aaa: +1 to +28: Energy gained 9600]
[aaa: +1 to +29: Energy gained 12000]
[aaa: +1 to +30: Energy gained 14400]
[aaa: +1 to +31: Energy gained 16800]
[aaa: +1 to +32: Energy gained 19200]
[aaa: +1 to +33: Energy gained 21600]
[aaa: +1 to +34: Energy gained 24000]
[aaa: +1 to +35: Energy gained 26400]
[aaa: +1 to +36: Energy gained 28800]
[aaa: +1 to +37: Energy gained 31200]
[aaa: +1 to +38: Energy gained 33600]
[aaa: +1 to +39: Energy gained 36000]
[aaa: +1 to +40: Energy gained 38400]
[aaa: +1 to +41: Energy gained 40800]
[aaa: +1 to +42: Energy gained 43200]
[aaa: +1 to +43: Energy gained 45600]
[aaa: +1 to +44: Energy gained 48000]
[aaa: +1 to +45: Energy gained 50400]
[aaa: +1 to +46: Energy gained 52800]
[aaa: +1 to +47: Energy gained 55200]
[aaa: +1 to +48: Energy gained 57600]
[aaa: +1 to +49: Energy gained 60000]
[aaa: +1 to +50: Energy gained 62400]



[aaa: +20 to +21: Energy gained 100]
[aaa: +20 to +22: Energy gained 200]
[aaa: +20 to +23: Energy gained 300]
[aaa: +20 to +24: Energy gained 400]
[aaa: +20 to +25: Energy gained 500]
[aaa: +20 to +26: Energy gained 2900]
[aaa: +20 to +27: Energy gained 5300]
[aaa: +20 to +28: Energy gained 7700]
[aaa: +20 to +29: Energy gained 10100]
[aaa: +20 to +30: Energy gained 12500]
[aaa: +20 to +31: Energy gained 14900]
[aaa: +20 to +32: Energy gained 17300]
[aaa: +20 to +33: Energy gained 19700]
[aaa: +20 to +34: Energy gained 22100]
[aaa: +20 to +35: Energy gained 24500]
[aaa: +20 to +36: Energy gained 26900]
[aaa: +20 to +37: Energy gained 29300]
[aaa: +20 to +38: Energy gained 31700]
[aaa: +20 to +39: Energy gained 34100]
[aaa: +20 to +40: Energy gained 36500]
[aaa: +20 to +41: Energy gained 38900]
[aaa: +20 to +42: Energy gained 41300]
[aaa: +20 to +43: Energy gained 43700]
[aaa: +20 to +44: Energy gained 46100]
[aaa: +20 to +45: Energy gained 48500]
[aaa: +20 to +46: Energy gained 50900]
[aaa: +20 to +47: Energy gained 53300]
[aaa: +20 to +48: Energy gained 55700]
[aaa: +20 to +49: Energy gained 58100]
[aaa: +20 to +50: Energy gained 60500]



[aaa: +24 to +25: Energy gained 100]
[aaa: +24 to +26: Energy gained 2500]
[aaa: +24 to +27: Energy gained 4900]
[aaa: +24 to +28: Energy gained 7300]
[aaa: +24 to +29: Energy gained 9700]
[aaa: +24 to +30: Energy gained 12100]
[aaa: +24 to +31: Energy gained 14500]
[aaa: +24 to +32: Energy gained 16900]
[aaa: +24 to +33: Energy gained 19300]
[aaa: +24 to +34: Energy gained 21700]
[aaa: +24 to +35: Energy gained 24100]
[aaa: +24 to +36: Energy gained 26500]
[aaa: +24 to +37: Energy gained 28900]
[aaa: +24 to +38: Energy gained 31300]
[aaa: +24 to +39: Energy gained 33700]
[aaa: +24 to +40: Energy gained 36100]
[aaa: +24 to +41: Energy gained 38500]
[aaa: +24 to +42: Energy gained 40900]
[aaa: +24 to +43: Energy gained 43300]
[aaa: +24 to +44: Energy gained 45700]
[aaa: +24 to +45: Energy gained 48100]
[aaa: +24 to +46: Energy gained 50500]
[aaa: +24 to +47: Energy gained 52900]
[aaa: +24 to +48: Energy gained 55300]
[aaa: +24 to +49: Energy gained 57700]
[aaa: +24 to +50: Energy gained 60100]



[aaa: +25 to +26: Energy gained 2400]
[aaa: +25 to +27: Energy gained 4800]
[aaa: +25 to +28: Energy gained 7200]
[aaa: +25 to +29: Energy gained 9600]
[aaa: +25 to +30: Energy gained 12000]
[aaa: +25 to +31: Energy gained 14400]
[aaa: +25 to +32: Energy gained 16800]
[aaa: +25 to +33: Energy gained 19200]
[aaa: +25 to +34: Energy gained 21600]
[aaa: +25 to +35: Energy gained 24000]
[aaa: +25 to +36: Energy gained 26400]
[aaa: +25 to +37: Energy gained 28800]
[aaa: +25 to +38: Energy gained 31200]
[aaa: +25 to +39: Energy gained 33600]
[aaa: +25 to +40: Energy gained 36000]
[aaa: +25 to +41: Energy gained 38400]
[aaa: +25 to +42: Energy gained 40800]
[aaa: +25 to +43: Energy gained 43200]
[aaa: +25 to +44: Energy gained 45600]
[aaa: +25 to +45: Energy gained 48000]
[aaa: +25 to +46: Energy gained 50400]
[aaa: +25 to +47: Energy gained 52800]
[aaa: +25 to +48: Energy gained 55200]
[aaa: +25 to +49: Energy gained 57600]
[aaa: +25 to +50: Energy gained 60000]

[Tgo01]

Got it all working. I uploaded new versions of both ;mana-tracking and ;companion-mana-tracking so be sure to download them both if you want all of the new goodies.

AGAIN REMEMBER TO DOWNLOAD BOTH ;mana-tracking AND ;companion-mana-tracking IF YOU WANT TO MAKE USE OF THIS SCRIPT. YOU ONLY EVER NEED TO START OR STOP ;mana-tracking THE SCRIPT WILL DO THE REST. ALSO YOU ONLY EVER NEED TO DO ;mana-tracking reset THE SCRIPT WILL AUTOMATICALLY RESET STATS ON BOTH SCRIPTS.

It's probably best to add ;mana-tracking to your startup scripts so it is always running. It will be most accurate if you keep it running all of the time and only stop it if you want to reset the stats.

The script should be pretty gosh darn accurate. There might be a hiccup here or there but those instances should be very rare and probably won't affect accuracy much at all even if they do occur.

The latest: the script will now track how much essence you have gained since you last reset all of the stats. If you want to track this on a per weekly (weakly) basis you'll need to do the following when the new week starts:

;mana-tracking reset

A general rundown of what the script now does with all of the changes:

Script keeps track of how long you have been casting offensive spells, counting up to 4 minutes since your last offensive spell cast. Script won't start initially keeping track of time until you have made your first offensive cast.
Keeps track of how many times you have cast each offensive spell.
Keeps track of total mana you have spent on offensive spells as well as since your last enchant update.
Keeps track of how many pulses since your last enchant update. Stops tracking pulses after 4 minutes of not casting an offensive spell.
Keeps track of how much essence you have gained since you last reset the stats.

Probably more that I'm forgetting at the moment.

I think this script is pretty much feature complete now, not sure what else I can put into it, unless the GMs decide to change things up somehow.

Here are some logs of the script in action:



[mana-tracking: Essence gained since last reset: 100 (0.63% of weekly total)]
[mana-tracking: Total mana spent: 465]
[mana-tracking: Total time spent casting (minutes:seconds): 1:10]
[mana-tracking: Mana spent since last enchant update: 465]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 1]
[mana-tracking: Time spent casting since last enchant update (minutes:seconds): 0:46]




[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: Enchant has been updated!]
[companion-mana-tracking: Skills: EMC: 202, Harness Power: 256, Air: 50, Earth: 50, Fire: 100, Water: 0]
[companion-mana-tracking: Starting enchant since last reset: 17]
[companion-mana-tracking: Going from +18 to +20]
[companion-mana-tracking: Mana spent since last enchant update: 750]
[companion-mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 2]
[companion-mana-tracking: Average mana per pulse: 375]
[companion-mana-tracking: Time spent casting (minutes:seconds) since last update: 2:24]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]
[companion-mana-tracking: ##############################]




[mana-tracking: Essence gained since last reset: 300 (1.88% of weekly total)]
[mana-tracking: Total mana spent: 780]
[mana-tracking: Total time spent casting (minutes:seconds): 4:05]
[mana-tracking: Mana spent since last enchant update: 780]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 2]
[mana-tracking: Time spent casting since last enchant update (minutes:seconds): 1:17]




[mana-tracking: 415 total casts: 63]
[mana-tracking: 415 current casts: 63]
[companion-mana-tracking]>sense
[mana-tracking: Essence gained since last reset: 300 (1.88% of weekly total)]
[mana-tracking: Total mana spent: 945]
[mana-tracking: Total time spent casting (M:S): 4:43]
[mana-tracking: Mana spent since last enchant update: 945]
[mana-tracking: Number of pulses since last enchant update: 0]
[mana-tracking: Time spent casting since last enchant update (M:S): 1:55]

[kookiegod]

Jaysus. That old enchanting system was way ahead of its time, and not in a good way. Even back then the main reason it got changed was because people started making zombie armies to infuse and do things like daily 10x enchants. These days with lich, you throw that back in and Dreaven alone'll be able to pop out three or four 10x's a day.

Yes, that is true. It wouldn't work. It was a good time back then but sheesh, that was 20 years ago. Hell, I haven't been a GM in 12 years now, or played in 6-7 now seriously. Every once in awhile, but no one I know is around and starting over with nothing does not appeal to me anymore.

Even then, we had a script army and figured out the infuse formula using a then capped empath with max mana share to infuse, with Cleric's Well of Life on the highest wracker available.

That we were able to infuse a 10x in about 10 hours one day was absolutely insane. But at the time, a 10x shield was worth 30m when silver actually had value.

[Alastir]

So, last night I did some testing.

200 Air Lore Ranks
2x EMC

20 casts of 910 on griffins = +1 enchant (100 essence)

200 Air Lore Ranks
1x EMC

30 casts of 910 on griffins = +1 enchant (100 essence)


The strange thing is, with 25 EMC ranks, 20 casts of 910 on griffins = +1 enchant (100 essence).



Is the formula bugged? Did I not wait long enough for the static/essence to "rollover" with the air lore ranks? Is there some "low level" bonus so it doesn't take forever? Who knows.

[Donquix]

same griffin, or different griffins each run? There seems to be a cap of static genned per creature, i think it is around 100 but that's just because i assume they are lazy and picked a round number. We don't know if/when that resets. Or is it per creature? Per creature per player?

account for random level spread of the griffins? We don't know how but it's modfied by level compared to creature, if it's like necrojuice / exp that could be a +/- 50% swing depending on what level the thing spawned at.

it's hard to know if you bottomed out entirely on essence, or where you were. maybe you gotta little extra here or there. if you weren't hunting and getting next to no essence per tick until you ticked up a tier, to be sure you were right at the cutoff, it's impossible to know if you were at xx01 or xx99 after a pulse that takes you to the next step.

[Methais]

I think that part was a little tongue in cheek, but all the rest of his defensive complaining today was actually stupid.

Naos is one of those hardcore purists that's still stuck in GS3. He was most likely being serious.

Kind of like if Krakii became a GM.

Well maybe not that bad, but still. :|

[Methais]

My favorite quote from the officials: "...we are working out the kinks...Wyrom"

What was the fucking rush in the first place? Simu had to know they would get blowback either way, so why not take the time to get <gasp> customer input beforehand?

:(

My guess is that they thought they were gonna ride the hype train by releasing it during all this spring spectacular thing despite being incomplete and the GM who made it being out of touch with things that have happened over the past 5 years (or however long he was gone for) in GS.


Great strategy to get game development for free via the community.

They could accomplish this with "Hey guys, new enchant is on the test server for the next month, then it goes live. Help test plz."

[Methais]

Hope Wrathbringer's shart hole, and Methais' dick stay super wet for you.

wut

[Alastir]

same griffin, or different griffins each run? There seems to be a cap of static genned per creature, i think it is around 100 but that's just because i assume they are lazy and picked a round number. We don't know if/when that resets. Or is it per creature? Per creature per player?

account for random level spread of the griffins? We don't know how but it's modfied by level compared to creature, if it's like necrojuice / exp that could be a +/- 50% swing depending on what level the thing spawned at.

it's hard to know if you bottomed out entirely on essence, or where you were. maybe you gotta little extra here or there. if you weren't hunting and getting next to no essence per tick until you ticked up a tier, to be sure you were right at the cutoff, it's impossible to know if you were at xx01 or xx99 after a pulse that takes you to the next step.


I went for kills, instead of dumping mana, so no more than a maximum of 5 casts per griffin, typically more around 3.

I only attacked griffins. I did some in 10 cast increments, some in 20, some 1 by 1, resting in between watching for mana pulses.

The only unaccounted thing, is I had 2x Air Lore, so I never lost static. I may not have waited long enough for enough pulses for the "extra" static to convert to essence.

[Donquix]

The random level swings are a big thing. If it does in fact swing it as much as EXP gain does you could have been getting 6 or 7 mana on some griffins or 15 on others. Without ensuring you're casting at an exactly level 100 griffin each time it's hard to say on a small controlled test.

[Methais]

The random level swings are a big thing. If it does in fact swing it as much as EXP gain does you could have been getting 6 or 7 mana on some griffins or 15 on others. Without ensuring you're casting at an exactly level 100 griffin each time it's hard to say on a small controlled test.

Sounds like a job for warcamps.

[Tgo01]

Look at this Discord post from Naos on 3-20-18


Is there any simple method for tracking mana spent and mana gained in a lich script?

Do you think he was working on this 925 change back then and was looking for ways to test it via Lich scripts?

[Methais]

Look at this Discord post from Naos on 3-20-18



Do you think he was working on this 925 change back then and was looking for ways to test it via Lich scripts?

He was probably asking so he could try and find a way to Lich proof his super secret secret formula.

Naos probably still uses PsiNet despite it being dead.

[Alastir]

I have a bit of a correction to post regarding the original release announcement.

>> Each cast generates a sort of magical static which clings to the caster; being well trained in Elemental Mana Control helps a Wizard gather more static.

This statement was not accurate and should read: "Each cast generates a sort of magical static which clings to the caster depending on the relative difficulty of the target compared to the caster."

The following statement was accurate, but now includes the role of Elemental Mana Control in essence gain: "On a mana pulse, a portion of that static is absorbed as essence for enchanting; being well trained in Elemental Mana Control will increase the amount of static converted into essence and being well trained in Harness Power and Elemental Lore: Water increases the maximum amount of essence that can be absorbed this way per pulse."

Apologies for the confusion this error has caused.

--
Naos


http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Professions/Wizard/view/918

[bunnymustdie]

Something else to give an idea on the kind of direction the updates might take:


WELCHA

>> Now, there's little to no incentive to cast lower level enchants at all because they will directly affect your ability to do major projects.

It is definitely an opportunity cost for high level wizards, which creates space for lower leveled wizards to step in and supply those low tier enchantments. We definitely do not need an endless stream of 4x and below gear being created arbitrarily. I didn't realize there was such an overwhelming demand for said gear to begin with.

>> If this system absolutely must be based on mana used at this point, then at least let ALL mana use count.

The simple reality is any system that counted all mana spent would be trivial to abuse.

--
Naos

[Methais]

Something else to give an idea on the kind of direction the updates might take:

Does Naos not realize that you can buy 4x (and sometimes 5x) gear off the shelf? You could in GS3 too, which he's still stuck in, so he should know this.

[Alastir]

Does Naos not realize that you can buy 4x (and sometimes 5x) gear off the shelf? You could in GS3 too, which he's still stuck in, so he should know this.

Naos is actually a genius.

He's pulled off the most epic troll in GS history.

Force wizards to cast all the spells they constantly complain about, 514, 914, 915, 519, because that's what is best to farm static essence. (You can't just kill things like everyone else.)

Then make them do it for 20-40 hours per week, just for a +1 enchant.

[drauz]

I like the idea behind the changes, if they can get the essences gathering time down to a reasonable level I'll be pretty happy with the changes. We gained a lot from this change.

[Maerit]

I like the idea behind the changes, if they can get the essences gathering time down to a reasonable level I'll be pretty happy with the changes. We gained a lot from this change.

Yeah, it's all perspective. Pocket / table wizards will never recover, and it might take a little longer to individually enchant an item, but those items that you would never be able to enchant on your own can be enchanted now. That's a reasonable trade off IMO.

[drumpel]

10 hours hunting. Nearly 45k experience earned eith lummis going(even started using long term experience boosts - went through 20 of them to try and curb some of the experience I was absorbing) and I just got to +25 enchant.

10 to 12 hours is a normal week of hunting on my wizard. I like to be able to spend my other 10-12 hours of play on other characters.

At this rate, my wizard will hit level 78 (currently just made 69) before he can do a full 6x to 7x cast in 22-23 weeks out.

[BriarFox]

You have to completely change your hunting style to make this new system work. Basically, hunt non-stop, only pausing to recover mana. If you do that, with decent training, you can hit 1k/hr. Break that up across a week and you can hit cap IF you can hunt 2-3 hours per day.

[Vishnell]

You have to completely change your hunting style to make this new system work. Basically, hunt non-stop, only pausing to recover mana. If you do that, with decent training, you can hit 1k/hr. Break that up across a week and you can hit cap IF you can hunt 2-3 hours per day.So exactly like sorcerers.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

[Alastir]

So exactly like sorcerers.

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

No, nothing like sorcerers.

I can cap essence within 2 hours with my sorcerer.

[Fortybox]

They said they are looking into it and you all are still complaining. So much drama.