When bolting makes a difference?

[Remo]

The downsidesod training as a bolting sorc vs pure warding seem obvious from a min/max POV.

But I like idea that I’ve seen of trading some TPs for a more flexibility in hunting areas. But given the DF of 705, I’m having trouble imagining places/times when it would be more effective. Anyone have examples of places/possibilities that are opened up by bolting?

[Maerit]

Almost nothing is easier to kill with sorcerer bolts. Spell aim is more useful for 713 than 705 bolt because then you can hit multiple targets at once, which almost none of the CS spells can do.

I think maybe it's easier to kill a greater water elemental with bolts because they have high TD? Never tried liches. They might be harder to hit with CS attacks?

With proper spell rank training everything pre-cap is going to be easier to slay with CS attacks.

[Gelston]

I had a bolting sorcerer.



for rp purposes.

[Derex]

i hear precap spell aims biggest benefit is for dr

[Maerit]

i hear precap spell aims biggest benefit is for dr

Possibly, but that wouldn't be for bolting - it'd be for focused implosion. I did DR without Spell Aim from 54-cap, but I stacked enhancives and heavy quartz orbs for the sake of making my CS high enough to 717 everything pretty easily, and if it didn't die in 717, it died to 711 or 705 CS attacks. These days, I would use 713 if it didn't take an arsenal of outside spells to make my bolt AS competitive. Star Curse is not enough to bring your AS up to anything close to other pures.

[Dantx]

GWE have high DS as well so bolting doesn't work well against them either.

The problem I have with bolting pre-cap is that it gets more expensive with each level to stay compentant. So at level 10, you only have 22 ranks which isn't that expensive. But at level 90, you have 182 ranks which is now getting up there with significant TP cost.

[Roiken]

i like 713 for group bandits and group reims.. the splash makes sure I get quick hit.. as for hunting.. there is nothing that i'd really bolt.

[Maerit]

i like 713 for group bandits and group reims.. the splash makes sure I get quick hit.. as for hunting.. there is nothing that i'd really bolt.

One tip for those events is 709. It will tag everything and you will get credit. Of course it's nice to be able to contribute to the damage, but 709 and room 703 basically makes the whole group safe while still giving the sorcerer credit. But yes, 713 is handy to make clearing a room faster.

[Roiken]

i dislike 709 cause i don't like to kill it... and I don't want to be that guy...i'd use ewave first.. but it's just a personal pref

[Maerit]

i dislike 709 cause i don't like to kill it... and I don't want to be that guy...i'd use ewave first.. but it's just a personal pref

1. 709 is designed to target enemies first, and non-grouped friendlies second.
2. The sorcerer who cast 709 must be in the room for the arms to do anything (no reason to dismiss the arms if you're not sticking around).
3. The RT from 410 is usually longer than 709, so if you hit a passerby as they enter the room with 410, you're usually disabling them for longer than with 709.

Using 410 is far less powerful than 709 as it does not persist to continue pulling enemies down when they stand up. It's probably the strongest sorcerer control spell (possibly the strongest control spell in the entire game).

[Roiken]

targeting non grouped players secondly, is a moot point, if all the creatures are on the ground when someone comes in.

the fact that 709 does persist and continue to pull enemies down is why i don't use it.. i like the 1 and done of 410... even if more dangerous for a passer by you only have that half a second where someone could walk in.

709 arms go up in monsterbold making it harder to distinguish what's going on in the room.

personal preference... and we're supposed to be discussing bolting anyways

[Xred]

Bolting Is great in bandits with baelfire. One cast and you touch all of them, often stun them without killing them so, this is great because you get bounty credit and get exp for everything. Just remember curse of the star to raise your AS.
Also, bolting makes your 720 better, and I can use it against champions in otf. As they have a very high TD.

[Dantx]

Agree, bolting really only shines for bandits only in everyday life.


709 has the perception of being more unfriendly than it really is. Because of all the monsterbold.

It doesn't matter how much factual evidence is posted contrary to that, the average person is ignorant to sorcerer spells (as they should be) and will think you're BM'ing by using the spell consistently.

I used it a lot in bowels and Nelemar (sub 100). I'd rather piss people off than die and I recommend others do the same.

Also agree that 709 and 711 is probably the most OP single target locking combo in the game.

Edit: Also I think it's really cool people disagree with each other at the high levels on certain aspects. There's way too many games out there where everyone agrees on a min/max and you see little to no diversity.

[nindon]

I copied the Bolt DF chart from the wiki and plugged in my lore ranks to see which bolt would be best for me in various situations. My Google spreadsheet is linked below. Because I have so many spirit summoning ranks, web bolt has the highest DF in many situations. Still, I kill stuff a lot quicker with Balefire because of the demon flares.

For group hunting, Web bolt is great if you have a good chance of webbing the target. The crits are unbalance, so there are a lot of immune critters.

The spells in yellow are the ones I like to use. I prepared this chart before the release of Cone of Elements and Telekinesis and before the release of self-knowledge scrolls. Infused SK scrolls open up broader opportunities for bolt spells. I *think* you get full credit for lore ranks on outside spells when using SK scrolls.

I you want to make a copy and plug in your own lore ranks, then the only thing you will need to change are the lore numbers highlighted in blue on the Data tab.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RqhOptzMTAqnMApJPEIayieC-svph6QY9jHGRubXLjw/edit?usp=sharing

[Maerit]

I *think* you get full credit for lore ranks on outside spells when using SK scrolls.

So, if you had 20+ ranks of fire lore, and you had SK 903 from a scroll, would you be able to prep / evoke 1707?

[nindon]

So, if you had 20+ ranks of fire lore, and you had SK 903 from a scroll, would you be able to prep / evoke 1707?

That would be a smart way to test it.

[Donquix]

You would. For that time you just know the spell, it works exactly as if you trained it innately.

"Differences" with native casters are spells that have a "x bonus per spell circle", you still only know ONE spell, it just happens to not be the level 1 spell. So your scaling will still be worse for those.

A few bonuses are not part of the spell but are CLASS bonuses. For instance the level-based scaling for 1202 only applies to MONKS, not everyone who "knows" iron skin, in fantasy land where savants are released they would not receive that portion of the bonus even when training the spell.

[Maerit]

You would. For that time you just know the spell, it works exactly as if you trained it innately.

"Differences" with native casters are spells that have a "x bonus per spell circle", you still only know ONE spell, it just happens to not be the level 1 spell. So your scaling will still be worse for those.

A few bonuses are not part of the spell but are CLASS bonuses. For instance the level-based scaling for 1202 only applies to MONKS, not everyone who "knows" iron skin, in fantasy land where savants are released they would not receive that portion of the bonus even when training the spell.

Yeah, but 1202 is a minor spell circle, so you still get full lore benefit. Anyone with 101 ranks in ML - transformation +4 from an enhancive could get the equivalent of I believe brigadine (AsG 12) armor while having no spell hindrance. Monks get up to AsG 18 (augmented plate) way post cap when they have the TPs for the lore. Of course, you don't get the CvA of brig though.... but for a pure that's still not a problem.

There's really not a lot of benefits other than lore benefits for bolting spells to improve their DF. A non-wizard is going to get 1/3rd of their lore benefit applied to the spell when cast. However, if you convert 903 into 1707, I am not sure there would be any degradation in lore since it's an arcane spell.

[nindon]

I snazzed up my bolt DF spreadsheet. The new version should work for every profession. Enter your lore ranks and use the drop down list to choose your profession. It will underline the highest DF for you against each armor class. You will need to make a copy in your Google drive account to use it. Here's the link:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VeK08jhTVTiyWadYIVtmMvjV34Ou5YpJfoHtO6XQ--0/edit?usp=sharing

Did I get anything wrong?

[Xred]

Thank you so much for this. What is funny is i’ve never even thought about armor before. Is there a list of OTF creatures and what they wear? Also bandits wear all like brig or heavier?