More of an athelete?

All other sports don't count. Who and why?

- Arkans

Christ, I can't spell.

- Arkans

[Hulkein]

I'd have to go with football.

[Bobmuhthol]

Baseball.

Soccer = fast.
Football = big.
Hockey = durable.
Basketball = black.

Baseball requires so much more skill.

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol

Basketball = black.



You're going to have to explain THAT one to me....and baseball does not require so much more skill them the other ones....except soccer

D

[Scott]

I'd go with:

1. Hockey.
2. Soccer.
3. Basketball
4. Football
5. Baseball

EDITTED: Because I wasn't paying attention.

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by Scott]

[Snapp]

As the best all-around athletes, I'd say...
1. basketball
2. soccer
3. hockey
4. football
5. baseball

[Fallen]

Hockey players are tough as nails and are always in great cardiovascular shape. Football players would probably be in the next best all-around shape and strength.

[Hulkein]

LOL, 'big' for football?

You need to be fast, strong, agile, quick, and for a few positions, top notch hand-eye coordination.

Baseball isn't even close (even though I love the sport.)

And there's no way soccer is ahead of anything.

[Darnell]

Soccer really needs to be replaced with Golf. It's MUCH harder to hit that ball straight and far then it is to roll around in the grass clutching your hamstring, get carted off on a stretcher only to return to the field 5 minutes later to finish out that "nil-nil" or 1-nil" game.

D

Golf does not count in life.. ever

- Arkans

[Jorddyn]

Originally posted by Arkans
Golf does not count in life.. ever

- Arkans

Unless you're in corporate America.

Jorddyn, drives the beer cart instead :D

[Back]

Soccer, hands down. You try running around for two hours straight, not to mention sprint and kicking a ball along the way.

[Scott]

<<<And there's no way soccer is ahead of anything. >>>>

Are you serious? Soccer is like non-stop running....

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Backlash
Soccer, hands down. You try running around for two hours straight, not to mention sprint and kicking a ball along the way.

Been there, done that. Just because it takes endurance doesn't mean anything. Cycling takes insane endurance, but it's still not much more of a sport then soccer. I don't care how many former cancer patients go an win a race in of all places....france

D
"Orange Slices at halftime and popsicles at the end of the game are a nice touch though"

[Makkah]

<<Soccer really needs to be replaced with Golf. It's MUCH harder to hit that ball straight and far then it is to roll around in the grass clutching your hamstring, get carted off on a stretcher only to return to the field 5 minutes later to finish out that "nil-nil" or 1-nil" game.>>

That was a joke, right?
I read somewhere that the average soccer player runs around 6 miles per game. And that's at full sprint.

Golf. ROFL

[Back]

I garuntee you, put a football player on a soccer field and he wouldn’t last one quarter. A half at most.

[Jorddyn]

I'd say in order.... hockey, soccer, basketball, football, baseball.

It was a tough call between hockey and soccer. However, :heart: hockey, and they have to do everything on friggin' ice skates.

Jorddyn, can only "skate" while holding the railing

[crazymage]

Football hands down, from guys like michael vick who are freaks. to Ted washington whos 380 pounds but can still play 40 snaps of pro ball a game.

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Makkah
That was a joke, right?
I read somewhere that the average soccer player runs around 6 miles per game. And that's at full sprint.

Golf. ROFL

Marathon runners run 26 miles at what's basically a controlled sprint. Guess they should be ahead of everyone then.

D
"Arkans, you did this to me on purpose...sausage boy"

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Backlash
Soccer, hands down. You try running around for two hours straight, not to mention sprint and kicking a ball along the way.

Yeah, it takes endurance, one of like 5 attributes you need to play football or hockey.

Are marathon runners the best athletes so long as they can kick a ball?

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Backlash
I garuntee you, put a football player on a soccer field and he wouldn’t last one quarter. A half at most.

And if you put a soccer player on a football field...you've got a kicker....who really isn't a football player at all, just a guy who collects a pay check for MAYBE 5 plays a game.

D

[Hulkein]

Michael Vick can run faster and throw further than any soccer player out there, and is probably stronger than 90% of them as well.

But yeah, you're right, they run around a lot in circles, must take the most athletic person to do that :rolleyes:

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by Hulkein]

[Edaarin]

Please note that Mike Vick is not human, and therefore not subject to comparison.

[Scott]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Michael Vick can run faster and throw further than any soccer player out there, and is probably stronger than 90% of them as well.


He just needs to learn to how to throw for 200 yard in 2 consecutive games for once......

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Scott

Originally posted by Hulkein
Michael Vick can run faster and throw further than any soccer player out there, and is probably stronger than 90% of them as well.


He just needs to learn to how to throw for 200 yard in 2 consecutive games for once......

I'll take the 250 total yards from scrimmage any day.

D

[Scott]

I wouldn't. I don't think he's a good quartback at all. He's an amazing athlete, but he'll never win a ring. You have running backs for running, a QB should have more pass attempts then rush attempts.

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Scott
I wouldn't. I don't think he's a good quartback at all. He's an amazing athlete, but he'll never win a ring. You have running backs for running, a QB should have more pass attempts then rush attempts.

I don't know. Tell that to the other 28 teams that were sitting at home watching him play in that NFC championship game.

D

[Scott]

Originally posted by Darnell

Originally posted by Scott
I wouldn't. I don't think he's a good quartback at all. He's an amazing athlete, but he'll never win a ring. You have running backs for running, a QB should have more pass attempts then rush attempts.

I don't know. Tell that to the other 28 teams that were sitting at home watching him play in that NFC championship game.

D

In a very weak NFC. The Eagles made him look like a rookie and TB made him look like he should be back playing college ball. He's one of the most overrated players in football.

[crazymage]

Mcnabb was the same way his first couple years in the league, and hes not 1/5th the talent of mike vick . if vick smartens up he'll be unstoppable.

[Scott]

Mcnabb has been in the league 2 more years then Vick (I think?). Vick still looks like a rookie. Vick is fun to watch, but needs to learn to throw the ball before Atlana actually becomes something,

[Makkah]

McNabb's been around 2 years longer.

[Darnell]

Originally posted by Scott
Mcnabb has been in the league 2 more years then Vick (I think?). Vick still looks like a rookie. Vick is fun to watch, but needs to learn to throw the ball before Atlana actually becomes something,

Understand also that Mcnabb is 28 and is basically about in his prime. Vick is only 24 and hell, that's typically the age when you're a 1st or 2nd year player.

D

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Scott
I wouldn't. I don't think he's a good quartback at all. He's an amazing athlete, but he'll never win a ring. You have running backs for running, a QB should have more pass attempts then rush attempts.

I'm not on his bandwagon either as a quarterback... but you nailed it. Athlete.

That's what we're talking about here.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by crazymage
Mcnabb was the same way his first couple years in the league, and hes not 1/5th the talent of mike vick . if vick smartens up he'll be unstoppable.

Not really...

In McNabb's first year as a starter he threw for 3365, 21 TDs, 13 ints. In his second year as a starter he threw for 3233, 25 TDs, and only 12 picks.

If he didn't get inured in his third it would've been even better than those two years.

Vick only threw for 14 TDS this year, his fourth season. So basically McNabb was a better passer than Vick is now as a first year starter.

McNabb is a much better passer, by far. He'll always be a better passer than Vick, and he'll have a more accomplished career, imo.

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by Hulkein]

[Apathy]

Basketball players are probably the best pure athletes out of those five. Then soccer, then football, then hockey.

Toughness has nothing to do with athleticism. That would be a completely different poll.

And if Vick ever gets some receivers (read: not tight ends) worth their salt Atlanta will be a NFC championship regular. Of course, they'll still get smoked by the Pats.

[DeV]

Originally posted by Apathy
Basketball players are probably the best pure athletes out of those five. Then soccer, then football, then hockey.
^ Cosign. In that order.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Apathy
Toughness has nothing to do with athleticism. That would be a completely different poll.

I disagree.

You're not much of an athlete if you can't stay on the field.

[DeV]

Every sport that's been mentioned requires some degree of toughness.

[Hulkein]

... Yeah?

I haven't said otherwise.

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by Hulkein]

[DeV]

That was more so for Apathy. I didn't disagree with what you said.

[Hulkein]

Oh, ok.

:up:

[Apathy]

I disagree.

You're not much of an athlete if you can't stay on the field.

I meant the order of the five sports mentioned would be different. Basketball players may be more athletic than hockey players, but they aren't even in the same league when it comes to toughness.

But I don't disagree with you.

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by Apathy]

[Hulkein]

If I had to rate them in order it'd be

Football
Basketball
Baseball
Hockey
Soccer

[Sean]

Originally posted by Apathy

And if Vick ever gets some receivers (read: not tight ends) worth their salt Atlanta will be a NFC championship regular. Of course, they'll still get smoked by the Pats.

Peerless Price isn't a horrible reciever, maybe not a perennial pro bowl #1 but if you need if you need a TO or a Randy Moss to increase your play then you probably aren't that good to begin with. Price showed that he can post a 1200+ 9 TD season atleast.

[Latrinsorm]

Hockey
Football
Soccer
Baseball
Basketball

Hitting a round ball with a round bat > putting a ball in a hoop that can fit three.

Basketball has the smallest playing area, the biggest ball, the least people, and the least amount of time. Baseball loses points because of the standing around factor and Mo Vaughn. Soccer loses points because there are only two skills for non-goalies (run, hit ball). Hockey beats football because hockey guys are literally balanced on the edge of a knife at all times.

[Alarke]

I actually put a lot of thought into this. I played CB in high school (no jokes about not being able to be a receiver) and at the time I always figured that to be the most athletically demanding sport. I now play college hockey and I can say hands down skating full speed, handling a puck on the blade of a stick while avoiding defenders, getting checked, brutally beaten all while shooting... and dont even get me started on the athleticism of goalies. I never played soccer past... hmm, 12 years old, but I believe that watching it on TV i'd compare it to hockey, but being less physically demanding it takes second. I played baseball until freshman year of college and it's it by far the least athletically demanding of the others. B-ball i just play pick up in the rec, but i'd still rate it over baseball.

So recapping my sports in order would be:
Hockey
Soccer
Football
Basketball
Ping Pong
Baseball

[Miss X]

You forgot the best sport around.... Tennis!

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Apathy
And if Vick ever gets some receivers (read: not tight ends) worth their salt Atlanta will be a NFC championship regular. Of course, they'll still get smoked by the Pats.

Bullshit. Look at the retards McNabb has had before T.O. and tell me THAT is the problem with Vick.

Like someone said.. Vick is a great athlete and fun as hell to watch, but I don't consider him in the top 5 QBs in the league. If Manning had 1/2 of the athletic ability Vick does.. he would be the best QB of all time hands down. Vick is undisciplined and either doesn't spend enough time in the film room or cannot read the defense schemes quick enough

[Alfster]

I chose baseball as the best athletes. Yes, baseball players don't get knocked around like Hockey players or Football players, but there is a lot more to an athlete than that. All pro players are in excellent physical condition, but it's the variables in baseball that make me think they're better athletes and the consistiency that they have from day to day (way to many games in a season)

Baseball, in my opinion, is more of a thinking man's sport and it's usually fairly obvious which players don't have their head in the game.

Although, I guess I'd put a quarterback as being the best athlete, then Baseball players. Quarterbacks are able to take a beating, and think...making them the better of the two.

[Mistomeer]

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol

Basketball = black.



Not exactly true.
The most dangerous play in basketball, afterall, is the open white guy.

[Warriorbird]

1. Hockey
2. Soccer
3. Football
4. Basketball
5. Baseball

Baseball just doesn't compare.

[Mistomeer]

It depends on what position you talk about in football. I would say an NFL running back is more athletic than anyone else, but an NFL lineman couldn't do shit.

[Warriorbird]

Yeah, I think positions matter in a lot of em.

[xtc]

NFL stands for National Fatties League, Football players are overweight fat asses. I read an article about a retired football player who said right after he retired he realised he couldn't walk around the block without huffing and puffing. He has started a weight loss/exercise program for retired football players.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/101/106144.htm

1. Hockey Players
2. Soccer Players
3. Basketball Players
4. Baseball Players
5. Football Players

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by xtc]

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by xtc]

[Skeeter]

Football
Baseball
Hockey
Basketball
what's this Soccer you speak of?


Let's look at how difficult it is to reach the highest level.

Players don't leave highschool and play in the NFL. They're not physically ready, and not athletic enough.

Baseball is very rare for a player to be ready straight out of HS couple of exceptions to this Griffey Jr. for instance.

Hockey often the top picks in the draft are moved straight to the NHL.

Basketball every kid that averages double figures in HS goes straight to the NBA. NBA is a joke I don't even know how they can still call it Basketball. If you want to watch real basketball watch the college game.

Soccer there's an 80 year old man in my neighborhood that runs 6 miles each day. put a ball in front of him and he's a star.

[Latrinsorm]

I don't understand why people have such a low opinion of baseball. It is unquestionably less physically demanding than sprinting for 3 minutes straight on skates or running at full speed into a ton of humanity, but athleticism is not solely what is physically demanding. Or is it? How are y'all defining athleticism?

[Asha]

My housemate just reminded me that I said I'd play soccer on his team tonight.
I eventually declined in the fear that I'd die from a heart attack.

I pretended to kick a ball to see if I still knew how and when I'd finished one swing . . I had to lie down I was that exhausted.

[Chadj]

Hockey
Football
Soccer
Basketball
Baseball


Simple.

[Warriorbird]

Heh heh. If soccer were that simple, good soccer players wouldn't earn as much as they do, Skeeter.

[Ravenstorm]

Having known someone from Australia for a while now, I have to agree with her: the AFL simple PWNS the NFL. I definitely put soccer above football in terms of athleticism but Australian rules football beats soccer.

Raven

[Edited on 3-4-2005 by Ravenstorm]

[Sylph]

Hockey... then REAL football.



American football has some VERY talented athletes but most of the offensive lines are just big/fat guys. So that ruins that sport... IMO.

[Sylph]

Originally posted by Mistomeer

Originally posted by Bobmuhthol

Basketball = black.



Not exactly true.
The most dangerous play in basketball, afterall, is the open white guy.



But who is going to pass it to the white guy?

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by xtc
NFL stands for National Fatties League, Football players are overweight fat asses. I read an article about a retired football player who said right after he retired he realised he couldn't walk around the block without huffing and puffing. He has started a weight loss/exercise program for retired football players.

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/101/106144.htm

1. Hockey Players
2. Soccer Players
3. Basketball Players
4. Baseball Players
5. Football Players

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by xtc]

[Edited on 3-3-2005 by xtc]

Yes, there are fat linemen.

You deserve a cookie for reading an article telling you this, congrats.

[Hulkein]

I guess there are just a lot of out of shape people here who equate being able to to run a ton (not as fast or as agile as those running in the NFL mind you, just more) to being athletic.

:pizza::pizza::pizza:

[Bobmuhthol]

<<(not as fast or as agile as those running in the NFL mind you, just more)>>

Sprinting a maximum 92 meters at a time does not equate to athleticism either. Also, running is easy. The six miles in a soccer game thing doesn't mean much. I can go out and run six miles in less than an hour, so I must be super athletic.

[Hulkein]

Hmmm, I'd say taking a ball, running to max speed, cutting on a dime, breaking a tackle, and then running 80 yards downfield is
'athletic.'

You rarely see a football player get the ball at the goalline and run straight and untouched to the endzone, Bob.

[Bobmuhthol]

If they can do it all while hopping on one foot I'll be impressed.

[Sylph]

Soccer is hard because of the start and stop running/sprinting/passing the ball.


Most inshape people couldn't last in a top flight soccer match... pacewise.

[Warriorbird]

There's a whole lot more than "running a ton" in soccer. And no pads. Rugby and Australian rules football are more hardcore, however. Those guys are crazy.

[Hulkein]

Yeah, I know. Endurance isn't near the top of my list for athleticism though.

It's there, just doesn't pull as much weight as pure speed, strength, and agility.

[Back]

If it isn’t soccer, its hockey or basketball. Then football, then baseball.

[Warriorbird]

Which soccer players need too... and the good ones have.

[Sylph]

Hockey I think is the hardest on your body... I played hockey and ill tell you... a 45 second shift played hard leaves me huffing and puffing and by the end of the game I want nothing else than to eat and lay down...

[longshot]

I think that the paramaters for how we are deciding what makes an "athlete" here were pretty poorly defined from the start, making this difficult.

Are we talking about general players... like a highschool level? Are we talking about how difficult is to reach an elite level, like the pros?

There were no guidelines given to us... seeing Encino Man started the topic, I'm not at all surprised.

First, I think that many people have a negative opinion of soccer based on the five minutes of the world cup that's seen in the States every four years. (And by the way, qualifying for 2006 is already well underway...)

To say that a good runner = a good soccer player is a fallacy. While the ability to run well is necessary to play, it by no means ensures that one is a good soccer player. I hope we can agree on this?

I think football is the hardest to judge based on this absence of criteria because of how different the positions are. There is also the element of handling the "ball". Football has positions that require no ability to handle the ball.

The most difficult feat to achieve is hitting a Major League fastball. Does good hand-eye coordination and swing mechanics make a baseball player more of an athlete than a hockey player who has to lose his teeth on a nightly basis fighting off hordes of alchoholic Russian defensemen?

I think it comes down to what impresses you personally, and what "wows" you... and a lot of this has to do with experience. I'm terrible at soccer, and it's given me an appreciation for what these guys at the highest level can do. Someone who pitched is obviously going to have more of a connection with the guy on the mound than the 'roid freak who has 30 homers, 150 strikeouts, and two to three injuries a year. It's all relative.

Personally, I think there's other sports that require just as much, if not more... but their sports aren't suited for television, or their fanbases exist outside of the United States.

Lacrosse?
Cricket?
Rugby?
Boxing?

In sticking with the strict guidlines of the thread,... my list:

1. Soccer- Stop thinking about your highschool squad, and watch one of the Euro leagues.
2. Football- These guys are gladiators.
3. Baseball- (Think Jeter)
4. Basketball- more goons today than skilled players.
5. Hockey- Tough guys on the ice... mulleted wastes of organic tissue off it.

This thread sucks ass.

[Edited on 3-4-2005 by longshot]

[Warriorbird]

Eh. Stopping a slap shot and hitting a high level softball are likely tougher than hitting a major league baseball. Apart from hockey, I think you're pretty right on.... however, I think hockey goalies are a step above the rest of hockey players. Positions play a lot into this.

[Sean]

Originally posted by longshot
I think football is the hardest to judge based on this absence of criteria because of how different the positions are. There is also the element of handling the "ball". Football has positions that require no ability to handle the ball.


I think a running back who loses their job or never achieves greatness due to a fumbling problem would disagree. The only position that doesn't have to really handle the ball is an OL, even DL's have to play the ball in terms of locating it and forcing fumbles and making plays for it.

[Edited on 3-4-2005 by Tijay]

[GSTamral]

Of the sports listed, there is no question:

1) Football. An average speed linebacker in the NFL is about as fast as the fastest soccer player to ever play the game. And twice as strong. And twice as big. And oh, most of them run 2-3 miles before practice, when they not only run full speed, but hit each other. Soccer players aren't tough enough to qualify to step onto the same field as some of these guys. One high schooler this year coming into college, at 352 lbs, runs a 4.82. And he runs a mile in under 5:45 as well, both times equal or faster than David Beckham, Romario, or Bebeto. I'm not sure about the current Brazillian star, but I'd be willing to wager its faster than him as well. So basically, a high school star in football > Greatest Soccer Players ever.
2) Hockey - again, this is a full contact sport in which people are skating full speed (more tiring than running), and hitting people, and coordinating a stick with their hands.
3) Soccer - they are essentially marathon runners with good eye-foot coordination. No, they do not run full speed all the time, but they don't get breaks either. Props for endurance, but they can't take contact, they have the least physical strength of the sports listed, and the least toughness. All they have is endurance. As for the average soccer player running 6 miles per game, over 90 minutes, thats a 15 minute mile 6 times with a 30 minute break for halftime. Ho hum.
4) Basketball - another game where people love to mistake good hand-eye coordination for amazing athleticism. Still good athletes, but not even comparable to the others.
5) Baseball - The least of the athletes. Not to say they aren't athletic, but when you've got stars like David Ortiz, Cecil Fielder, and several others who'd make most people's grandparents look like track athletes, it's tough to say these are the best athletes.


Now, if you take a better collection of sports, I'd say

1) Boxing - by 35 miles ahead of any other sport.
2) Mixed Martial Arts Fighting/Kickboxing
3) Cycling
4) Amateur Wrestling
5) Football
6) Tennis
7) Swimming
8) Triathletes
9) Hockey
10) Short Distance Track Athletes
11) Gymnastics
12) Soccer
13) Marathon Running
14) Basketball
15) Baseball
....
98) Ping Pong
99) Golf
100) Chess

[Sylph]

"3) Soccer - they are essentially marathon runners with good eye-foot coordination. No, they do not run full speed all the time, but they don't get breaks either. Props for endurance, but they can't take contact, they have the least physical strength of the sports listed, and the least toughness. All they have is endurance. As for the average soccer player running 6 miles per game, over 90 minutes, thats a 15 minute mile 6 times with a 30 minute break for halftime. Ho hum."


Yeah... Tell that to Djibril Cisse who had one of the worst compound fractures in his leg ive ever seen from a slide tackle.


What non-football players don't get is that soccer players have more strength in their legs than almost any other athletes in the world! We are talking STRONG legs and they can play at full strength for over 200minutes(counting silver goal/golden goal) and slide tackles aren't pansy little taps.

Be reminded that football players also have their boots SO thin and light that they offer about as much protection as a ballerina slipper.

Anyone who says a football player isn't tough is only looking at the American Smashmouth Football...






Also... You listed some slow soccer players against the fastest of your domestic football players. No one has ever said Beckham had pace...


You want to put that guy in a race with Thierry Henry? Christiano Ronaldo? Robinho? Cafu?

I can name over one hundred footballers who can DUST almost every other domestic footballer.



[Edited on 3-4-2005 by Sylph]

[GSTamral]

Please name them.

The fastest man in the world was a cornerback in the NFL by the name of Darrell Green, who was clocked at 9.84 in the 100M dash, but could not compete in the Olympics due to a clause in his contract. Oh, and he ran that one when he was already 34 years old.

There are currently more than 90 players in the NFL who can run the 40 yard dash in under 4.4 seconds, while wearing a full set of pads. I would love to see a single soccer player run that fast with no pads.

Want to talk about leg strength? Michael Vick was able to leg press 1150 pounds as a sophomore in college. Find me a single soccer player in the world who can come within 100 lbs of that. He's not even one of the top 10 in the NFL at that either.

We're talking about people who are simply bigger, faster AND stronger than soccer players here. At 245 lbs, benching over 500 lbs with ease, and leg pressing over 1,000, Ray Lewis would probably leave Thierry Henry breathing dust in any kind of short distance run.

And contact? Those guys are bumping while running in the same direction as each other, and they fall down and cry like little babies. Need I remind you that football players are doing it while running in opposite directions?

Two cars travelling side by side at 20 mph might bump. Two cars travelling in oppsite directions from each other at 20 mph crash. Need the difference be explained further?

[Tsa`ah]

So many people just letting the cheap shots fly on soccer. Soccer is pretty much basketball without hands and a larger court. The tactics and the plays parallel each other. As it's been said, if soccer we just running and kicking a ball, almost anyone could play the sport.


1) Football. An average speed linebacker in the NFL is about as fast as the fastest soccer player to ever play the game.

I highly doubt this.


And twice as strong.

Has to be


And twice as big.

Obviously


And oh, most of them run 2-3 miles before practice, when they not only run full speed, but hit each other.

On the professional level? No, not even on the collegiate level. In training camp sure. That's only for two reasons, weed out those that can't hack it and to condition those that can. No sane physical trainer, staff, or coach is going to run their defensive backs into the ground before a game. Once, maybe twice a week for conditioning, yes. Every practice no. There is also a marked difference between running full speed for under a minute, pausing for a few minutes (sometimes in excess of 10) while a play is set up, and simply repeating the process over the span of four quarters, with pauses between quarters and a longer pause at the half in comparison to slowing down to a medium paced run or trot for a set up ... constant motion.


Soccer players aren't tough enough to qualify to step onto the same field as some of these guys.

Of course, it's a different game and it takes a different athlete. The same can be, and has been, said of a football player stepping onto a soccer field.


One high schooler this year coming into college, at 352 lbs, runs a 4.82. And he runs a mile in under 5:45 as well, both times equal or faster than David Beckham, Romario, or Bebeto.

One instance does not set the norm. If he's a lineman (at those speeds he should be an end or back [defensive] then you'll be pressed to find another with that speed to weight ratio.


I'm not sure about the current Brazillian star, but I'd be willing to wager its faster than him as well.

The exception is not the rule. I doubt there are but a handful of NFL players that would last 5 minutes trying to play soccer at the professional level, just as there would probably not be more than a handful of professional soccer players that could play in the NFL.


So basically, a high school star in football > Greatest Soccer Players ever.

Not even close.

Were I to place them in order of "rounded" Athletes

Soccer/Basketball (toss up)
Football
Hockey
Baseball

I say soccer and basketball because of the even distribution of strength throughout the body. The agility, coordination, stamina, and mental acuity. The average basketball/soccer in any position requires a consistent level of everything.

Baseball and football players are so varied that an "average" is rather mediocre. A kicker/punter in football doesn't have to be big, fast, agile, or tough (unless he has a crappy line). An average lineman doesn't have much endurance, but does have probably more raw power and reaction time than any other position. A running back really needs to be an all round athlete, but considering the ratio of back to line ... the average gets skewed. Hockey requires a nearly super human level of hand eye coordination in any position, yet some positions require more speed, others more strength. Baseball ranks at the bottom for several reasons. If a 400lb man can throw a 95+mph fastball with accuracy ... he can play professional baseball. If his brother has the mechanics, hand to eye, and upper body strength to smack a ball over the center field wall even 25 times a year ... he can play professional baseball. There aren't really any standards in baseball other than being exceptionally good at one thing, or performing at the bar in a few things. That's not to take away from a phenomenal SS to 2nd combo, but the reality of baseball is that you only need to perform at the bat, or in the field. Doing both is a plus, but even the best professional baseball player spends half the game on the bench.

[Edited on 3-4-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Which soccer players need too... and the good ones have.

Yeah, they do.

Just not as much as NFL football players.

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Sylph

You want to put that guy in a race with Thierry Henry? Christiano Ronaldo? Robinho? Cafu?

What are their 40 yard dash times?

Guaranteed none of them are faster than Deion Sanders, Michael Bennet... hell, even a guy I was in High School with, Kevin Jones.

Interesting Fact - Kevin Jones holds the record for 40 yard dash at Va. Tech, not Michael Vick.

[Sylph]

The problem with arguing football with North Americans is that they don't know who the fuck im talking about...

Have any of you ever watched AC Milan? Seen Cafu just TEAR down the wing?

No. I doubt a single one of you have... (except maybe Makkah because one of his friends loves football)


Bench 500lbs... Yeah... Not natural NOR needed. Pecs are basically a mirror muscle...

You think footballers are WEAKER than domestic footballers in the leg area beacuse they don't have massive/fat upper bodies? Check out some of the player's legs. Saying someone like Jaap Stam or another very DOMINANT physical player... isn't strong in the legs is lunatic.

You are talking like Domestic Football players are genetic miracles when its a game only played in the United States and the players only coming from the United States.


Footballers are the WORLDS BEST. Period. The US is a drop in the hat compared to the world... the absolute supreme footballers are from all over the world and they are the ones playing in the big leagues: La Liga; Premiership; Ligue 1; Serie A; Brundesliga; Eresdivise; Superliga; etc. etc.

[Edited on 3-4-2005 by Sylph]

[Edited on 3-4-2005 by Sylph]

[Hulkein]

Talk about throwing stones from a glass house. :lolwave:

Post the speeds of these guys.

And if you watched any American Football, you'd know Michael Vick doesn't have a massive/fat upper body.

Neither do most of the skilled position players in the NFL.

Terrell Owens, Randy Moss, Barry Sanders, Clinton Portis, Ahmen Green, LaDanian Tomlinson, etc, etc.

I know more about soccer than you do about the NFL, I think that's safe to say.

How many NFL games a year do you watch?

[Warriorbird]

Quarterbacks have a tremendous amount of protection. Many of the players in a football play hardly put forth any effort at all...it's situational effort. Sure, some of them may be able to put up those numbers.... but they wear pads and get a TREMENDOUS amount of rest. Just because someone's bulked up and they can run doesn't mean they're utilizing their body constantly.

I'd argue to Sylph in turn that rugby and Australian rules football players are tougher than soccer players, however.

[Edited on 3-4-2005 by Warriorbird]

[Sylph]

Um Hulkien... I only watch the NFL playoffs.


I do have a pretty good understand of what it takes to play footbal... and to play REAL football. I could walk in and play American football at a college level right now.


I couldn't play football for an american club atm for footy.

[HarmNone]

Heh. Maybe you all could discuss rugby. ;)

[Sean]

Everyone keeps making the arguement that soccer is more intense and everyone is always running, but its not really true. People keep finding exceptions in other sports like well QBs don't run, or OL are tubby, baseball players stand around, etc. Well so do people in the backfield playing soccer, so does the goalie, its not constant running for everyone.

[Sylph]

Tijay... the backfield and midfield do the MOST running of anyone on the pitch.

[xtc]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Please name them.

The fastest man in the world was a cornerback in the NFL by the name of Darrell Green, who was clocked at 9.84 in the 100M dash,

His fastest time was 10.08 which is fast, but not the fastest in the world. I also doubt that in College he had passed any steroid tests. Speed and indurance are two separate things.

http://www.nfl.com/news/2001/WAS/green_flashback_090601.html

Darrell is one guy in the NFL. It kills me that you guys think football is the most athletic sport. These guys play maybe 4-10 seconds before the whistle blows and they can rest. I have stopwatched timed the length of plays and the length of non play.

NFL stands for National Fatties League. Study shows that 56% of NFL players are obese.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/02/sports/football/02football.html

[Latrinsorm]

Again, why is "continuous physical exertion" being equated with "athletic"? By the pro-European football logic, marathoners are more athletic than anyone, when in actuality there is very little athletic technique to running (not none, but very little).

As for obesity, there are medical standards for obesity that rapidly break down when someone has lots of muscle mass. I've seen medical standards that claim Lex Luger (4% body fat) was obese.

[xtc]

Originally posted by Latrinsorm
Again, why is "continuous physical exertion" being equated with "athletic"? By the pro-European football logic, marathoners are more athletic than anyone, when in actuality there is very little athletic technique to running (not none, but very little).

As for obesity, there are medical standards for obesity that rapidly break down when someone has lots of muscle mass. I've seen medical standards that claim Lex Luger (4% body fat) was obese.

"But the researchers say "it is unlikely that the high BMI in this group . . . is due to a healthy increase in muscle mass alone"

[xtc]

"Culpepper, who could barely run around the block when he left the NFL"

"Fitness guru Mackie Shilstone says some have come to him with high blood pressure, bad cholesterol and weight-related problems like insulin resistance syndrome that can threaten their lives."

"In three to five years you're going to see a player have a stroke on national television," Shilstone warns. "Hypertension is alive and well in the NFL."

"Corey Stringer was 335 pounds when he died from heatstroke at a Minnesota Vikings practice in 2001. A year later, former New Orleans Saints defensive lineman Frank Warren died of a heart attack..."

ARTICLE HERE (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1107298214580&call_pag eid=970599119419)

[Edited on 3-4-2005 by xtc]

[longshot]

Tamral, that's just horrible, logic. Seriously.

I think a lot of this debate depends on what qualities make an "athlete"?

Hulkien, I gotta disagree. A person is not the 40 time.

Taking pro football at an NFL level, which position is the most athletic??? Try to answer this question with no guidelines... it's impossible.

And Sylph, I'm home sick with the flu... I watched AC Milan beat Inter Milan 1-0 yesterday on Gol TV. I do know what you're talking about.

[Latrinsorm]

I couldn't read the nytimes article. Something about logging in. :)
Originally posted by xtc
"Culpepper, who could barely run around the block when he left the NFL"The rest of that quote: Culpepper, who could barely run around the block when he left the NFL, ran a marathon a year later

I couldn't get into shape for a marathon in one measly year, and I'm underweight if anything.

No, being over 300 pounds isn't an inherently healthy thing. Neither is running, or getting a face full of ice. I'm struggling to comprehend how health has anything to do with athleticism.

[Sylph]

Milan derby is always fun... but the riots after the Lazio/Roma derby games are ... more interesting.

[GSTamral]

xtc, his fastest time in college may have been a 10.08. People continue to get faster after they leave college. Most NFL players hit their physical primes in their late 20's, and some even in their early 30's.

Sylph, I'd love to see you try to make any kind of legitimate D1 program in college, even as a member of a scout team, because it just wouldn't happen. Those 300 lb blobs on the line arent just fat. They have a tremendous amount of muscle on their bodies.

I'm not saying soccer players are not athletic, but in terms of pure athleticism, measured in strength, power at impact, speed, endurance, and coordination, skill position players in the NFL are well above and beyond.

Again, there is a HUGE difference between bumping someone while running in the same direction, and running into them when you are moving in opposite directions. I have played all of those sports at multiple levels. I was a nationally ranked tennis player all through my high school years.

Being at a private school, we had people at our school who came from other countries when their parents transferred jobs into the US for a few years. Two of them, Nicholas Cornu, and Peter Bruggins, were on the NATIONAL junior teams in France and The Netherlands, respectively. This means they were among the 25 or so BEST players in the country under the age of 18. Nick was a midfielder, and Peter a forward. Both were heads and tails better than anyone on the team, and heads and tails above everyone else in the state. The 2 player tandem essentially carried the rest of the team all the way into the state tournament.

As a tennis player, I could sprint faster than them. An 11.6 in the 100M dash was more than enough to beat either one by multiple steps. I could EASILY beat them in the 3.1 mile run for track. (by more than a full minute). I was not the fastest player on the tennis team. And we had at least 6 or 7 guys in the school faster than me. Guess where 4 of them played. High school football. They were bigger than me, stronger than me, and could run faster than me over short distances. Granted, I was faster in long distances, as were the soccer players, but I consider the 100M world champion to be a better athlete than a marathon runner.

Soccer players do not have world class speed. You heard it here first. The top football players do.

I could have walked in quite easily onto any of those national junior soccer teams. Would they have schooled me dribbling the ball? Sure. Could I kick a soccer ball as hard as they could? Nope. Could I execute the passes the way they could? Not a chance in hell. But they couldnt outrun me. They wouldnt tire me out. And at the time, at a mere 5'9 and 185 lbs, with a 265 lb bench and 440 lb squat, god forbid I bumped into them running with them. I wouldn't be the one doing the Michael Jordan airtime thing.

[Hulkein]

Sorry for the bump but I was just thinking about this...

Can anyone name a better athlete than Bo Jackson?

He was as fast as Deion Sanders, strong enough to run over a truck, and won almost won the MVP in baseball while playing football in the same calender year.

Basically he was faster than almost any soccer player, as strong as almost any football player, and had the coordination of damn good baseball player.

[Edited on 3-9-2005 by Hulkein]

[Apathy]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Can anyone name a better athlete than Bo Jackson?



Here.

[Sylph]

Tamral... You are speaking at a high school level... From when you are a teenager.


You bias is set; It won't be broken.



Skilled position Domestic football players are very talented... I won't say they aren't... and im not saying they aren't... its the OFFENSIVE LINEMAN and the KICKER that really bring down my view of Football. They aren't tremendous athletes... they just know their position and do it without too many errors. Add in a good foot(kicker) and/or Tons of Fat and Strength for Offensive Line... and Bam!

You too can do it...


Footballers need to be skilled at EVERY position. The goalkeeper has to know the game better than anyone because he needs to anticipate positioning. The goal is LARGE and he has to make sure hes got it covered from every angle... if the ball is passed he needs to position himself correctly and such... He doesn't have to be as gifted with his feet but he has do some incredibly acrobatic leaps for that ball.

Thats something that someone has to learn and ALSO has to have natural ability to do... Midfield/Forward/Backfour... They all have to be EXTREMELY skilled with the ball... they need to cross and pass the ball with great accuracy... they need to position themselves... and really know whats going on...


Offensive lineman? They just need to try to block and open running holes.





I don't get how this boiled down to Footballers vs. Football players. Hockey players all have to have great stick skills, graet thinking skills and processing, ALL OF THEM have to be in STELLAR shape, a great view of the ice and understanding, and they have to be STRONG and fast and be able to take a beating.

[Edited on 3-9-2005 by Sylph]

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Hulkein
Sorry for the bump but I was just thinking about this...

Can anyone name a better athlete than Bo Jackson?

He was as fast as Deion Sanders, strong enough to run over a truck, and won almost won the MVP in baseball while playing football in the same calender year.

Basically he was faster than almost any soccer player, as strong as almost any football player, and had the coordination of damn good baseball player.

[Edited on 3-9-2005 by Hulkein]

And is not indicative of the "average" football player. Bo was a machine for sure and had the potential to rival Jordan in recognized athletic ability and endorsement earnings.

As I said though, Bo was the exception. Every post using the exceptions as validation is throwing logic out of the window.

[Edited on 3-9-2005 by Tsa`ah]

[Keller]

Who else had the black and white poster of Bo in shoulder pads holding the bat behind his neck?

That was the shit.

[Keller]

Oh, and to be on topic:

1) Basketball
2) Hockey (only because people made convincing arguments)
3) Soccer
4) Football
5) N/A
6) N/A
7) N/A
8) N/A
9) N/A

Oh ya, I forgot baseball ...

10) N/A
11) N/A
12) N/A
.
.
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.
e
t
c
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.

[Sylph]

LOL Keller... not the poster but I had the trading card of that!!

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
And is not indicative of the "average" football player. Bo was a machine for sure and had the potential to rival Jordan in recognized athletic ability and endorsement earnings.

As I said though, Bo was the exception. Every post using the exceptions as validation is throwing logic out of the window.

I wasn't saying 'See Bo Jackson, he is the reason football is the hardest.'

I was just saying can anyone name a better athlete? I wish I was old enough to see more of his career.

I still think the non-linemen of the NFL are more athletic, on average, than soccer players. :cool:

[Apathy]

Speaking of Bo and Jordan, anyone remember the cartoon with those two and Gretzky?

They made Gretzky out to be such a putz, but I liked that cartoon.

[Keller]

I was lying in bed unable to sleep and thought about this thread.

I think gymnasts are #2 below basketball players as far being pure athletes.



[Edited on 3-10-2005 by HarmNone]