GMs want me to scale back Dreavenings

[Tgo01]

I was pulled in today to talk about my Dreavenings.

First I was asked to limit group size to just 16, but that would massively suck so I asked if we could try 40 at first to see if that helps but the compromise was 30 and said if that doesn't help it will have to be lowered.

Also no more "bot" behavior, so I can't do services based on an action of another player. This means just about every pre-Dreavening service that was provided is now gone.

This really sucks and I blame Jesus.

The log of the conversation:

SEND[Estild] Greetings, Dreaven. Do you have a moment?
report yes I have a moment.
You feel yourself being pulled away...
A thick storm of large white feathers whirls into the area, creating a blinding radiance before becoming perfectly still in mid-air. The feathers darken and seem to age rapidly, disintegrating away to reveal Estild.
Estild says, "Greetings."
You say, "Hi there."
>l estild
It is difficult to see Estild, who is completely enshrouded in a thick blanket of silvery grey mist laced with thin indigo threads.
Estild says, "I need to discuss 2 quick issues with you."
You say, "Sure."
Estild says, "The first is a request. We would like to ask you to limit your "Dreavening" group size to 16 players. It's been identified as one of the sources of lag during prime time hours. We're trying to address it through multiple angles, but this is one area where it would help us if you would voluntarily limit your group size. We would prefer that route as opposed to enforcing a limit on all groups, since that has other implications for story events and group hunts."
You ask, "Is 16 really necessary? Could we try maybe 40 or something to see if that helps first?"
Estild asks, "What is your current group limit?"
You say, "60."
Estild says, "Let's try 30. But do know that if it doesn't help, we may have to further limit it."
You say, "Okay."
Estild says, "Thanks."
Estild says, "The second issue is let you know that going forward, we will be enforcing Policy 18's no "bot" rule. Just to be clear, you can still offer you spell ups and other services, but they must be manually activated by you instead of triggered based upon the actions of another player. For example, you may start your script to initiate your countdown, gather up players, cast spells, etc. You may not run always active scripts that cast spells or perform other actions when players nod, whisper, etc. You're not in trouble or receiving any warning for past behavior and this is simply to let you know of the enforcement going forward."
You say, "Alright, thanks for the headsup."
Estild asks, "Any questions or concerns regarding either of those?"
You say, "Well I wish it didn't have to be this way but I understand."
You say, "Wait I have a question."
Estild says, "Sure."
You ask, "What if I do something automatically without someone whispering/tapping/etc first?"
You ask, "Like I just give everyone an armor adjustment in the room without being prompted?"
Estild says, "You may do that."
You ask, "And someone hands my bard something to sing, can I loresing automatically too?"
You say, "There is no tapping involved, they just hand him an item."
Estild says, "That would not be allowed. That is responding to a prompt from another player, then reacting. If someone gives you an item, you may start a script to loresing to it, but you can't run a script that just accepts any item and automatically loresings."
You say, "Alright."
Estild asks, "Any other questions?"
You say, "No, I think I understand it all."
Estild says, "Okay, I'll return you now. Thanks for your understanding."
You say, "Thank you."
Estild waves.
You wave.
The world grows blurry and indistinct. After a moment everything becomes clear again. Looking about, you see...

[Gelston]

when are you going to rage quit again?

[Tgo01]

when are you going to rage quit again?

Right now!!111

[Vishnell]

Fucka what?? What was this issue, other than your dev makes their entire staff look lazy?

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

[Taernath]

That sucks. Is it the group size causing some mechanical issue, or just more no fun allowed?

Maybe all those spells are lowering the demand for DR items, lololol

[Tgo01]

Fucka what?? What was this issue, other than your dev makes their entire staff look lazy?

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

The larger group sizes were supposedly causing lag to the servers.

The pre-Dreavening services is "botting" behavior, which is something they didn't seem to care about a year ago when it was directly brought to their attention but now it's an issue apparently.

[fireorlime]

This is bullshit.

[Derex]

I mean people could leave a healer or lock picker to be a bot I can almost understand this but considering the amount of afk scripting that goes on ya pretty lame

[Taernath]

I never noticed any lag during a Dreavening (that I wasn't attending). People need to stop playing GS off of their library's wifi.

[Tgo01]

I never noticed any lag during a Dreavening (that I wasn't attending). People need to stop playing GS off of their library's wifi.

Yeah I'm not sure I'm buying the lag excuse either. And to go for such a lower number of 16 right off the bat, I mean that would make them a real pain in the ass to do :/

[Taernath]

Which GM pulled you up?

[Murrandii]

Hmmm… Whenever players try to raise the game value, they got stuff like that. I find it VERY 1985

I remember that guy, hmm name with a D, that got pulled cause he was doing a player based hunt for items and he advertised on amunet with a link to lich. He got an official warning.

That crazy

[Methais]

The larger group sizes were supposedly causing lag to the servers.

The pre-Dreavening services is "botting" behavior, which is something they didn't seem to care about a year ago when it was directly brought to their attention but now it's an issue apparently.

That's a bunch of bullshit. I see you announcing Dreavenings all the time and I never notice any lag on my end. Simu are just being their regular piece of shit butthurt selves because their players do more to make the game a better place than 99% of the actual GMs do.

Protip for Simu: Spending most of your resources on P2W events doesn't make the game a better place. It makes it a much shittier place.

[Tgo01]

Which GM pulled you up?

Estilid.

[AnOrdim]

When it comes to GS and what Dreaven does/has done since he started this, I find it amazingly unfair that he is the scape goat while the shit fuck HOTA gets to take a shit all over the servers without being forced to change their ways.

[Methais]

I never noticed any lag during a Dreavening (that I wasn't attending). People need to stop playing GS off of their library's wifi.

Upgrading that 486 they've been using since 1991 probably wouldn't hurt either, but gotta spend those disability checks on Simucoins and all to get that shitty HESS gear because that's what's important!

[Taernath]

https://i.imgur.com/xj9EFyo.jpg

Dreaven, you MONSTER!

[Methais]

Maybe all those spells are lowering the demand for DR items, lololol

At first I laughed along with this joke, but now...


Which GM pulled you up?


Estilid.

...I think you're probably 100% correct.

Estild's goal seems to be to nerf anything and everything he possibly can because reasons, and then when he can't nerf anymore spells, he nerfs things like Dreavenings and makes up the weakest excuses possible over it.

Dude makes me miss the days when Warden was doing dev.

[Parkbandit]

The larger group sizes were supposedly causing lag to the servers.

They realize it's literally a text based game.. right?


The pre-Dreavening services is "botting" behavior, which is something they didn't seem to care about a year ago when it was directly brought to their attention but now it's an issue apparently.

You just know some bitch like Allereli complained 10000 times about it and instead of hearing her moan about it in her assists, they went ahead and told her they took care of it.

Or they are planning on launching a new simu-coin service called Greavenings Services - For all your spellup needs!

[Taernath]

At first I laughed along with this joke, but now...





...I think you're probably 100% correct.

Estild's goal seems to be to nerf anything and everything he possibly can because reasons, and then when he can't nerf anymore spells, he nerfs things like Dreavenings and makes up the weakest excuses possible over it.

Dude makes me miss the days when Warden was doing dev.

Yeah I am definitely detecting a mix of butthurt and lost profit margins.

[bunnymustdie]

When it comes to GS and what Dreaven does/has done since he started this, I find it amazingly unfair that he is the scape goat while the shit fuck HOTA gets to take a shit all over the servers without being forced to change their ways.

I have similar experience. I usually bump into a couple of Dreavenings on days when I play and never encounter lag from them. Reim nights, however, often cause very nasty lag for me. I'd encounter weird lag on an evening, look at the game's schedule and see that, "ahh, figures, it's Reim night again", and just proceed to log off or something. I've basically been trained to play around Reim nights, something that Dreavenings don't come close to.

[Tgo01]

I really do think they are trying to make me to want stop doing the Dreavenings altogether but don't want to come right out and say it.

Doing 16 people at a time would really make the whole thing take longer, and he implied I might have to go even lower than that.

I have never once heard someone complain about Dreavenings causing lag ever since I moved the operation to the Wayside tables and split spellups into groups of 60. And now even trying 40 was asking too much and we had to go right to 30.

[Wrathbringer]

Is this being discussed anywhere on the officials?

[Wrathbringer]

I really do think they are trying to make me to want stop doing the Dreavenings altogether but don't want to come right out and say it.

Doing 16 people at a time would really make the whole thing take longer, and he implied I might have to go even lower than that.

I have never once heard someone complain about Dreavenings causing lag ever since I moved the operation to the Wayside tables and split spellups into groups of 60. And now even trying 40 was asking too much and we had to go right to 30.

I've never had lag from Dreavenings. Reim nights from Hands of the Arsharti, however, always cause massive lag.

[Tgo01]

Is this being discussed anywhere on the officials?

I haven't checked the officials but some people are discussing it on Discord.

[Avaia]

I find it amazingly unfair that he is the scape goat while the shit fuck HOTA gets to take a shit all over the servers without being forced to change their ways.

Pretty much this. Those Hand of the Arkati hunts cause massive lag to the game for multiple hours a week. Everyone knows it. Estild comes in and says Dreavenings cause a problem? Horseshit. Certain GMs must have characters who participate in those Reim binges, for all the coddling HotA has gotten.

And Nehor is full of shit. Let's see how "GLAD TO!" he is after he gets begged and nagged for spells 12765312481764 times.

[bunnymustdie]

I really do think they are trying to make me to want stop doing the Dreavenings altogether but don't want to come right out and say it.

Doing 16 people at a time would really make the whole thing take longer, and he implied I might have to go even lower than that.

I have never once heard someone complain about Dreavenings causing lag ever since I moved the operation to the Wayside tables and split spellups into groups of 60. And now even trying 40 was asking too much and we had to go right to 30.

The post you made yesterday with the list of all different services you offer probably put you on someone's radar in a bad way :S

[Methais]

I have similar experience. I usually bump into a couple of Dreavenings on days when I play and never encounter lag from them. Reim nights, however, often cause very nasty lag for me. I'd encounter weird lag on an evening, look at the game's schedule and see that, "ahh, figures, it's Reim night again", and just proceed to log off or something. I've basically been trained to play around Reim nights, something that Dreavenings don't come close to.

I'm gonna guess that there's a 100% chance that everyone who gets lag from Dreavenings is using Stormfront.

Because Stormfront is a laggy piece of shit garbage program and Wizard > SF 25/8/366

[Methais]

I really do think they are trying to make me to want stop doing the Dreavenings altogether but don't want to come right out and say it.

Doing 16 people at a time would really make the whole thing take longer, and he implied I might have to go even lower than that.

I have never once heard someone complain about Dreavenings causing lag ever since I moved the operation to the Wayside tables and split spellups into groups of 60. And now even trying 40 was asking too much and we had to go right to 30.

Funny thing about that is back in GS3 it was extremely common for mass spells to have more than 16 people in the group.

Shockingly enough, nobody told them it was causing lag or tried to make them stop. Weird.

Estild is one of the least trustworthy GMs imo, simply because most of his excuses for everything he nerfs are massively retarded and make no sense at all.

[Tgo01]

The post you made yesterday with the list of all different services you offer probably put you on someone's radar in a bad way :S

Probably. "How dare he offer all of that! There are probably 3 or 4 people in the whole game who can offer each of those services that we would rather have people track down!"

It's funny because just last night I was doing an interview for Milax's new GS podcast idea and I went out of my way to not shit on the GMs. This is the thanks I get?! :p

[bunnymustdie]

I'm gonna guess that there's a 100% chance that everyone who gets lag from Dreavenings is using Stormfront.

Because Stormfront is a laggy piece of shit garbage program and Wizard > SF 25/8/366

Dunno about other people, but for what it's worth I use stormfront and dreavenings never caused lag for me.

[Murrandii]

I agree with PB, they have something in their mind for the simustore, it's not a lag issue here.

Bro Dreaven, why not doing something different then, aka private full spell ups (for some silvers to compensate)? Don't get frustrated bro, be opportunist!

[Tgo01]

There is no lag caused by Dreavenings.

It takes less than 10 minutes to Dreaven everyone up.

This is because they are losing money from something somewhere.

Also, fuck Estild.

Okay who stole my name again? :O

[Wrathbringer]

Okay who stole my name again? :O

I just posted in the suggestions folder on the officials since they did away with the complaints folder. I suggested they stop harassing you and trying to shut down dreavenings. Called Estild out specifically for trying to make the game worse. Probably going to get pulled, but at least they'll have to read it first.

[Mobius1]

I have absolutely no need for Dreavenings, and have never once needed or used them, yet I still think they are a damn good thing for the game.

And I never have lag because of it. Never.

Is there some recourse for us players to lash back at this somehow?

[Methais]

https://i.imgur.com/wFCK6Kw.jpg

[Taernath]

I just posted in the suggestions folder on the officials since they did away with the complaints folder. I suggested they stop harassing you and trying to shut down dreavenings. Called Estild out specifically for trying to make the game worse. Probably going to get pulled, but at least they'll have to read it first.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/General%20GemStone%20IV%20Discussion/Suggestions/thread/1900815?get_newest=true

Reply Reply
I suggest GM's stop harassing Dreaven and trying to shut down Dreavenings. He's making the game environment better by offering services that are next to impossible to get anymore due to only 10 people with 10 alts actually playing the game these days. He's done more for the game over the past couple of years than the entire team of dev gm's and no, working on pay2win events does not count as improving the game. Dreavenings do not cause any lag, unlike Hand of the Arkati Reim nights which literally ruin the game for everyone else during the time they're being run. So sick of GM's doing everything they can to make the game worse, specifically Estild. Would have posted this in the complaints folder, but that conveniently went away and so I offer this suggestion in the suggestions folder: Leave Dreaven alone. Him spelling up people giving people armor support when they tap him is not ruining the game. Many other things are. Focus your attentions there or on actual development instead.

🔥🔥🔥🔥

[Tgo01]

I just posted in the suggestions folder on the officials since they did away with the complaints folder. I suggested they stop harassing you and trying to shut down dreavenings. Called Estild out specifically for trying to make the game worse. Probably going to get pulled, but at least they'll have to read it first.

lol

[drumpel]

https://i.imgflip.com/2wm1in.jpg

[Neveragain]

I call him Kim Jong Estild after the Q&A with him sitting between two propped up Asians at Simucon a few years back. The Asian gal looked totally creeped out by Kim Jong Estilds sausage fingers.

What a shit show, don't miss it one bit.

[Stanley Burrell]

I've never noticed lag during a Dreavening when one is occurring and I'm not at Wayside.

I have always noticed lag during HOTA Reim runs.

I find Najash's ability to remove a bless from my ~about-to-be-out-of-juice weapon. And then Kholac (with a consecrate) is able to really, really, really help me out. I don't get this man.

Edit: Is the Najash dispel + Kholac bless one of the things that the GMs were unhappy with, er?

[Gelston]

Yeah, only time I ever had lag was at Dreavenings. Never outside them. I think someone was just being a whiny bitch and Estlid was Estliding.

[Methais]

The backlash from this can and will be bigger than the Wizard nerfs.

https://pa1.narvii.com/6288/369e0518b8d88bc7d794b25452ae39f135875059_hq.gif

https://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Blank+_7c024ad1dcc251d85af6cbf7c3d25d64.jpg

[audioserf]

I've never had lag from Dreavenings. Reim nights from Hands of the Arsharti, however, always cause massive lag.

100% same. I don't even notice when Dreavenings take place aside from the chats on Lich telling me about it.

This sounds like a lot of BS.

If you change from in-game triggers for services to relying exclusively on having people use Lich to chat requests, that could get around the botting thing since they can't see Lich data.

[Neveragain]

Weren't they bragging about a new server a few years back?

New server:
http://oldcomputers.net/pics/coco1.jpg

[Tgo01]

Edit: Is the Najash dispel + Kholac bless one of the things that the GMs were unhappy with, er?

I have to get rid of every service that relies on a prompt from another player. So I could cast consecrate + bless at everyone at the table, but I can't dispel a weapon because that would require you giving the weapon to Najash which is a prompt.

I mean I COULD still do that, it's just I have to manually start a script to do all of that every time someone taps Najash, which would be a lot of work.

[Methais]

Some people dislike Dreavenings because

A.) They say it's OOC

B.) But really they are jelly because they have 5 accounts open to do their spell-ups and don't like people doing it for free.

C.) Fuck Estild.

This is correct.

Estild is cancer, but thinks he's the cure for cancer.

[Gelston]

You know what, maybe it lags the GMs and they don't want to admit it.

[Gelston]

This is correct.

Estild is cancer, but thinks he's the cure for cancer.

Cancer is the cure for cancer because it eventually kills the host which then causes the cancer to die.

[Methais]

Cancer is the cure for cancer because it eventually kills the host which then causes the cancer to die.

Cyanide is the cure for cancer too! And guns! Shoot cancer in the face! Except in NZ and UK, they can stab cancer in the face! Well maybe not in UK. They can run over cancer with a truck!

[Gelston]

Cyanide is the cure for cancer too! And guns! Shoot cancer in the face! Except in NZ and UK, they can stab cancer in the face! Well maybe not in UK. They can run over cancer with a truck!

They are not allowed to misgender cancer, however.

[Stanley Burrell]

I have to get rid of every service that relies on a prompt from another player. So I could cast consecrate + bless at everyone at the table, but I can't dispel a weapon because that would require you giving the weapon to Najash which is a prompt.

I mean I COULD still do that, it's just I have to manually start a script to do all of that every time someone taps Najash, which would be a lot of work.

Oh. Oh, I see. Hmmm.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKuoKgOHugo

[Methais]

According to my super secret anonymous source, I believe we've found our answer:


"Starting at 750k Bloodscrip, we will be introducing a new item with the next Duskruin that casts a spell called Dreavruin, which will cast every available spell on you that's castable on other players except for spells you already know. Also, if you're holding a compatible weapon in your right hand, it will also bless your weapon, the good kind with holy water flares!

This item will have a 4 hour cooldown. Lesser versions of this item will also be available for direct purchase in the Simucoin store, but with a cooldown of 6 hours."

[audioserf]

RP Jabronis like whoever Nehor is probably reported/complained enough that they're cracking down, that's likely all this is

[Methais]

I have to get rid of every service that relies on a prompt from another player. So I could cast consecrate + bless at everyone at the table, but I can't dispel a weapon because that would require you giving the weapon to Najash which is a prompt.

I mean I COULD still do that, it's just I have to manually start a script to do all of that every time someone taps Najash, which would be a lot of work.

You should get everyone at Dreavenings to RP NOMINATE you after every Dreaven.

"We've disabled the ROLEPLAY NOMINATE verb because it was causing too much lag." -Estild

[Winter]

Dunno about other people, but for what it's worth I use stormfront and dreavenings never caused lag for me.

The same, I'm not usually online during HOTA hours but when I have been I'll just log off as the game becomes unplayable.

[BLZrizz]

Same scenario as with Lich. Instead of creating features in game that the player base found valuable and would gladly pay for, staff were content to reap the player goodwill from a third party grafting that service onto the game at no cost to them.

But the longer the graft sticks around, the harder it becomes to extract without consequences.

[Gelston]

Same scenario as with Lich. Instead of creating features in game that the player base found valuable and would gladly pay for, staff were content to reap the player goodwill from a third party grafting that service onto the game at no cost to them.

But the longer the graft sticks around, the harder it becomes to extract without consequences.

Don't worry. When I buy Simu from Stillfront I'll fix all that.

[Methais]

"We've added a new Simucoin-operated NPC to the center of every town that will spell you up for 4 hours for 100 Simucoins.

Due to this addition, all player cast spells have been made self cast only."

.

[Taernath]

https://i.imgflip.com/2wm7ox.jpg

[Methais]

https://i.imgflip.com/2wm7ox.jpg

https://i.imgflip.com/2wm7zx.jpg

Estild sure does kill a lot of good things in GS.

[wetsand]

Lets be honest here, the real reason Dreaven is getting hassled is because he introduced a new currency and allows you to gamble.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Dude... look at this bad boy.

https://www.latlmes.com/arts/return-of-the-golden-age-of-comics-1

[Taernath]

RP Jabronis like whoever Nehor is probably reported/complained enough that they're cracking down, that's likely all this is

Oh, Nehor is apparently HJFudge.

[Methais]

Dude... look at this bad boy.

https://www.latlmes.com/arts/return-of-the-golden-age-of-comics-1

That's a baaad out-FIT! WOO!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USi7DS9vUKk

[Tgo01]

Oh, Nehor is apparently HJFudge.

I just noticed that too when he posted on the officials. That explains a lot. Also I had no idea HJFudge was still around.

[Gelston]

I just noticed that too when he posted on the officials. That explains a lot. Also I had no idea HJFudge was still around.

He mostly plays plat, but he dallies in prime too.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

That's a baaad out-FIT! WOO!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USi7DS9vUKk

res ipsa loquitur. Ad-hominem.

[Taernath]

He mostly plays plat, but he dallies in prime too.

You are banned from ever saying "dallies" again.

[Methais]

I just noticed that too when he posted on the officials. That explains a lot. Also I had no idea HJFudge was still around.

Oh good god yeah that explains pretty much everything. I used to get him and cwolff confused, which is probably all that really needs to be said.

[bunnymustdie]

I looked at the thread on the officials and my god, the autists have crawled out from under the rocks there already with krakii and the fudge guy there. The passive aggressive and overly pedantic shit you see there is just plain unwelcoming. They should try to moderate it or something if they actually want people to use the officials as, well, the officials.

[HJFudge]

Ya'll are cute. Keep doin you, friends ;)

<https://media.giphy.com/media/tFK8urY6XHj2w/giphy.gif

[Roiken]

lol at dallies... he also managed to meander his way in.

[HJFudge]

lol at dallies... he also managed to meander his way in.

Gotta come give some service to the fans. They just can't quit me, after all this timeeee ;)

[Parkbandit]

Oh, Nehor is apparently HJFudge.

LOL.. told you it was a little bitch who cried.

There isn't a smaller bitch than HJFudgepacker.

[Gelston]

You are banned from ever saying "dallies" again.

I will dally with dallies all I want!

[Parkbandit]

I will dally with dallies all I want!

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUOxf4hzDSXqvY5BzW/giphy.gif

[Neveragain]

I looked at the thread on the officials and my god, the autists have crawled out from under the rocks there already with krakii and the fudge guy there. The passive aggressive and overly pedantic shit you see there is just plain unwelcoming. They should try to moderate it or something if they actually want people to use the officials as, well, the officials.

This hemorrhoid is using the argument that interaction at tables has to be RP.

I will take his position and speak for all the people who don't use Dreavenings, nobody cares. My opinion is more important than fudge because I said so.

[Methais]

Gotta come give some service to the fans. They just can't quit me, after all this timeeee ;)

Two things the PC never forgets:

- The boob thread

- The extra retarded posters who have graced us with their retardedness over the years.

[HJFudge]

I do feel bad for you all sometimes.

Mental Illness is a real issue. I shouldnt make fun.

[Taernath]

I do feel bad for you all sometimes.

Mental Illness is a real issue. I shouldnt make fun.

STFU and start offering spellups like you wanted to

[HJFudge]

9288

[Taernath]

9288

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/605/902/ee0.jpg

Good god man, you really are posting from a 1991 Tandy 486.

[Methais]

9288

We don't get mad at the massively retarded posters like you. They're our entertainment. We don't get mad at our entertainment, because they're here to entertain us.

Thank you for entertaining us.

https://media.giphy.com/media/NnGGHE0muVqpO/giphy.gif

[Astray]

Oh wow. What a bunch of cunts.

Looks like I gotta call Estild a faggot at Simucon too.

[Methais]

Oh wow. What a bunch of cunts.

Looks like I gotta call Estild a faggot at Simucon too.

Please stream.

[Astray]

Please stream.

I'm willing to be forcefully removed from the building. Let's leave it at that.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Seriously... how can a text game get lag when it's literally a couple hundred people?

[Murrandii]

Seriously... how can a text game get lag when it's literally a couple hundred people?

A gm or maybe even Wyrom once said that most people got lot of stuff that check this condition or that condition.

My super weapon can trigger this if that happens and so on.

Lot of checks made per each character = heavier on their server than back in the days in gs3 when there was 1.xx k people online.

When I recall that, I only want to blame their coding abilities.

[Methais]

I'm willing to be forcefully removed from the building. Let's leave it at that.

Reported for death threats against PK.


Seriously... how can a text game get lag when it's literally a couple hundred people?

You used to be a GM. You know how gay Simu is.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

You used to be a GM. You know how gay Simu is.

I never really fit in as a GM. I remember I created a bunch of uber mobs for an "invasion" in ta'vaalor and another GM lost her shit about it. Like it was a standing event where she'd invade and I just basically added another invasion for 30ish minutes. I wasn't part of that clique so she cried about it to some psuedo "boss" and he was like "very serious, you shouldn't do that". Whatever. I checked out after that. Too much drama for me to care about it... and my experience wasn't unique. Kia was cool though, and some of the old timers, but the new crew was all about RP and their crowd. If you didn't fit in there I suspect you didn't last long.

And once I saw behind the curtain, it kind of ruined the game.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Oh, and I made a TON of high end shit.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Oh, and I made a TON of high end shit.

Actually, I should qualify that... I looked at a ton of high end coded items. I never actually made any game altering stuff. It was always cool to copy an item and examine the code and how it worked.

[Astray]

Reported for death threats against PK.

I'm bringing a megaphone.

[Donquix]

I never really fit in as a GM. I remember I created a bunch of uber mobs for an "invasion" in ta'vaalor and another GM lost her shit about it. Like it was a standing event where she'd invade and I just basically added another invasion for 30ish minutes. I wasn't part of that clique so she cried about it to some psuedo "boss" and he was like "very serious, you shouldn't do that". Whatever. I checked out after that. Too much drama for me to care about it... and my experience wasn't unique. Kia was cool though, and some of the old timers, but the new crew was all about RP and their crowd. If you didn't fit in there I suspect you didn't last long.

And once I saw behind the curtain, it kind of ruined the game.

whaaaaaaaaaaat? A bunch of sad socially awkward shutins power tripping over any minutia they get control of?

My mind is literally fucking blown.

[drauz]

Some people dislike Dreavenings because

A.) They say it's OOC

B.) But really they are jelly because they have 5 accounts open to do their spell-ups and don't like people doing it for free.

C.) Fuck Estild.

To be fair, Nehor (FudgeHJ), is an RP elitist. He also comes from plat. He also has the worst ideas.

[beldannon5]

I would blame the asshole GM's and management who couldn't fix something correctly not Jesus. Just saying. I mean seriously this game has way less people then it did years ago and you have lag issues. You don't cause that issue screw them in their stupid faces

[Astray]

I would blame the asshole GM's and management who won't fix something correctly not Dreaven.

I fix't that for you.

[Parkbandit]

I never really fit in as a GM. I remember I created a bunch of uber mobs for an "invasion" in ta'vaalor and another GM lost her shit about it. Like it was a standing event where she'd invade and I just basically added another invasion for 30ish minutes. I wasn't part of that clique so she cried about it to some psuedo "boss" and he was like "very serious, you shouldn't do that". Whatever. I checked out after that. Too much drama for me to care about it... and my experience wasn't unique. Kia was cool though, and some of the old timers, but the new crew was all about RP and their crowd. If you didn't fit in there I suspect you didn't last long.

And once I saw behind the curtain, it kind of ruined the game.

I remember being a host for a while and we got to roleplay some invaders.. Well, I was killing "too many" people.. so I was told to tone it down by some chick GM.. and I think it was Kennesaw that said "Fuck that, kill them all, it's an invasion, not romper room"

[Parkbandit]

To be fair, Nehor (FudgeHJ), is an RP elitist. He also comes from plat. He also has the worst ideas.

Let's not be too harsh on someone like HJFudge... I imagine GS is all he has in his life.

[Vishnell]

Parkbandit:
Was it the Breg invasion? cause that was the best ever

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

[beldannon5]

Oh wow. What a bunch of cunts.

Looks like I gotta call Estild a faggot at Simucon too.

I think he is a cunt not a faggot. I don't like him lol

[beldannon5]

Lets be honest here, the real reason Dreaven is getting hassled is because he introduced a new currency and allows you to gamble.

yeah but it's not real currency and you don't really get it, so they shouldn't care. I am guessing they were going to add gold though as the next be all currency you know like GENERAL tickets. What an utter shitshow they are becoming.

[beldannon5]

Estilid.

well that tells you everything estlid fucking things up since well he got here

[Astray]

I think he is a cunt not a faggot. I don't like him lol

I'll assemble a list of things to call them.

[Murrandii]

Roleplayers are breaking this game for me. Gemstone is NOT about roleplaying, damn it, it's a tactical game.

[beldannon5]

At first I laughed along with this joke, but now...





...I think you're probably 100% correct.

Estild's goal seems to be to nerf anything and everything he possibly can because reasons, and then when he can't nerf anymore spells, he nerfs things like Dreavenings and makes up the weakest excuses possible over it.

Dude makes me miss the days when Warden was doing dev.

Estlid is annoying, At simucon when wyrom was doing the state of the union, he said something about fishing everyone laughed really hard so I didn't hear what he said, and estlid was just a jackass about it. Okay back to watching march madness and playing wow lol

[wetsand]

yeah but it's not real currency and you don't really get it, so they shouldn't care. I am guessing they were going to add gold though as the next be all currency you know like GENERAL tickets. What an utter shitshow they are becoming.

My comment was more tongue in the cheek, jab at all the currencies available in game.

[beldannon5]

I figured that as I was posting then was like screw it I am posting anyways lol

[Methais]

I remember being a host for a while and we got to roleplay some invaders.. Well, I was killing "too many" people.. so I was told to tone it down by some chick GM.. and I think it was Kennesaw that said "Fuck that, kill them all, it's an invasion, not romper room"

Kennesaw was awesome. And not a retarded anus like most GMs.

[Methais]

yeah but it's not real currency and you don't really get it, so they shouldn't care. I am guessing they were going to add gold though as the next be all currency you know like GENERAL tickets. What an utter shitshow they are becoming.

Pretty sure that next new currency they put out is going to get shit all over if it ends up being "It's like bloodscrip, just not bloodscrip, but you can buy stuff from the new HESS with it but not with bloodscrip! So exciting!!!"

But I also try to not underestimate the incredible stupidity of its plethora of mentally ill players too, so there's that.

[Methais]

Estlid is annoying, At simucon when wyrom was doing the state of the union, he said something about fishing everyone laughed really hard so I didn't hear what he said, and estlid was just a jackass about it. Okay back to watching march madness and playing wow lol

That's a pretty vague story. But I believe it anyway.

Dreaven should introduce Dreavencoins to the game.

[Getho]

And once I saw behind the curtain, it kind of ruined the game.

I find this is true of most things.

[Fortybox]

They won't allow anyone to talk about this on Discord either. My question got erased.

Screw them.

[Parkbandit]

Parkbandit:
Was it the Breg invasion? cause that was the best ever

Sent from my LG-G710 using Tapatalk

Yea.. I think so. I'm pretty sure I posted some logs of it here... I'll look.

[Lulfas]

They won't allow anyone to talk about this on Discord either. My question got erased.

Screw them.

Removed mine as well.

[Fortybox]

Removed mine as well.

They have completely removed any meaningful way to give feedback. Screw them.

Screw you Wyrom and a special screw you too Estild.

[Astray]

Just another instance of Simu being incapable and unfriendly.

[Taernath]

Are you asking questions through their softballquestions bot?

[Methais]

They won't allow anyone to talk about this on Discord either. My question got erased.

Screw them.

https://i.imgur.com/WiXTKhp.png

[Fortybox]

Are you asking questions through their softballquestions bot?

Yep. Then it gets erased.

Oh, and you can't type in the GM question area anymore either. They even restricted that too.

[beldannon5]

lol should have asked my comment in general in gmquestions oh well

[beldannon5]

That's a pretty vague story. But I believe it anyway.

Dreaven should introduce Dreavencoins to the game.

he pretty much yelled at me and told me the question was already answered or some crap like that

[Taernath]

Yep. Then it gets erased.

Oh, and you can't type in the GM question area anymore either. They even restricted that too.

It's another method for them to ghost questions they don't want to answer. Still, the GM Questions section was just a sycophantic love-in before.

[Tisket]

Haven't read this thread beyond the first page and I don't play anymore but, Dreavenings allowed me to play around and try different builds, most of which wouldn't have had a chance of survival without seriously underhunting.

Way to suppress character experimentation, Simu!

Not that I really care now but yeah, lame.

[Bryce]

Ignoreuser Ignore Author



Re: GM's trying to shut down dreavenings on 03/21/2019 08:28 PM CDT

Links-arrows 27



Reply Reply

I'll start another thread going over some of the details of lag, but no one asked Dreaven to stop what he was doing. There were two concerns that were brought up today. Estild asked Dreaven if he could reduce the number of people he spells up at one time. Estild mentioned a number of 16, because this is a number before things start to degrade on our end. Not just spell ups, but many other things going on with the game. The current number of the Dreavening was 60 though, so Estild asked to try 30. Now, there was some discussion on POLICY 18 issues, strictly talking about spell botting. As long as Dreaven is at the keys and not using triggers, there is no concerns though, which was explained by Estild.



Wyrom, PM

[Astray]

Estild mentioned a number of 16, because this is a number before things start to degrade on our end.

Bitch, what the fuck do you mean, 'degrade on our end'?

[AnOrdim]

As many have experienced, we've been having issues with lag for quite awhile now, most prominently felt on Wednesday nights. This is largely due to two events that go on during this time, Guild Night and Hand of the Arkati's Reim hunt. For the last several weeks, we've been running tests in the background to track the causes of the lag. We actually thought we found something significant last month, but it turned out to only be adding to the lag, not the cause. Removing that issue was only speeding things up by a few milliseconds at best.

In these tests, we identified 3 issues.

* The room window on how it updates.
* The command queue.
* Spell effects on characters.

The issues aren't the servers, those were all upgraded a few years ago. The issue isn't the GSL layer of the game where the GameMasters work. It's the game engine that is choking. The honest answer is, the game was never built with the level of automation and efficiency that is going on with third-party software. One of our onsite developers is working on resolving two of those issues, the room window (which is largely third-person messaging) and the command queue. GemStone IV is single-threaded, so everything is processed one at a time. When you type in a command, it goes into a queue to execute. Usually this is very quick, so you don't feel it. But as more and more commands get entered, the queue starts to grow to a degree where we see lag. Any time a script inputs a command to check to see if it can do anything else over and over, it's having an overall impact on the game. The room window issue starts to become noticeable when lots of action is going on. Hand of the Arkati's Reim hunt is one of them. Another are places like CCF when groups of over 100 people were all in a room. These things are being worked on though, and we should have some stuff on GemStone IV Test soon (we had some things previously, but we ended up needing to retool a number of things).

The spell messaging is starting to also be an issue as well. We've always had mass spells, and getting them in large groups were always possible. But back in the day it was three mass spells and maybe a few casts of some other things like light/deep blues, a disk, a shot of strength, etc. The spell messaging issues isn't just spell ups either, but it's a major component to it. It's usually what gets things muddied. A Dreavening has everyone walking out with over a dozen spells. That player numbers use to be over 100 because we get messaged whenever the auto-silence effect goes into place. We were told by Dreaven that it's been limited to 60, but it's still not enough to show a noticeable increase on performance. We asked him to reduce that number to 30. If it's not something that we can resolve even by reducing the number, we might have to put group limits into place (like many other games) to see if that helps. This will impact invasions and storylines. We're not trying to go this route, but we have to adapt to how people are playing the game if the tools we have can't support unlimited numbers. And no, there isn't a quick tool for GMs to do to rework this. No flag that would make it easier.

I'll hopefully have some announcements in the next couple of days with some engine updates.

Suspiciously absent "We asked the Hand of Arkati to make changes". At least its honest about the age of the game engine.

[Roiken]

unfucking believable..

[Fortybox]

Suspiciously absent "We asked the Hand of Arkati to make changes". At least its honest about the age of the game engine.

https://media.giphy.com/media/toWYrORAoCw0nXVviH/giphy.gif

[Astray]

Watch them be unable to fix this and just nerf spelling up others. Yeah, that feels like the type of thing they'd do.

[Taernath]

Watch them be unable to fix this and just nerf spelling up others. Yeah, that feels like the type of thing they'd do.

On discord people are suggesting further merging of spell effects, like 401, 406, and 414. You know, something that not only might address this problem, but open up spell slots to other things that could be fun/useful.

It's a pretty safe bet they will go the counter productive group limit route instead.

[Roiken]

that was primarly a spawn of a joke... not a bad idea.. just making them not show/ cause messages to be sent out to everyone as to tie up the sever.

[Neveragain]

It's the game engine that is choking. The honest answer is, the game was never built with the level of automation and efficiency that is going on with third-party software.

But we're still going to have a modern subscription price.

http://rs172.pbsrc.com/albums/w15/TheWho87EWR/Wrestlers/M_Images/Mike_Rotunda3.jpg~c200

[Astray]

But we're still going to have a modern subscription price.

And micro-transactions and premium currency and multiple subscription levels and paid events.

[Neveragain]

I never really fit in as a GM. I remember I created a bunch of uber mobs for an "invasion" in ta'vaalor and another GM lost her shit about it. Like it was a standing event where she'd invade and I just basically added another invasion for 30ish minutes. I wasn't part of that clique so she cried about it to some psuedo "boss" and he was like "very serious, you shouldn't do that". Whatever. I checked out after that. Too much drama for me to care about it... and my experience wasn't unique. Kia was cool though, and some of the old timers, but the new crew was all about RP and their crowd. If you didn't fit in there I suspect you didn't last long.

And once I saw behind the curtain, it kind of ruined the game.

When your GM staff is chosen by way of cybering, this is what happens.

https://media.giphy.com/media/sMKRbZvyp6EVO/giphy.gif

[Tgo01]

Yep. Then it gets erased.

Oh, and you can't type in the GM question area anymore either. They even restricted that too.

That's lame and sounds exactly like something Simu would do.

[Gelston]

That's lame and sounds exactly like something Simu would do.

I can kinda understand though. It would annoy me when I'd ask a question for a GM and Allereli(or someone else) would chime in with her dumbass opinion.

[Roblar]

It isn’t. There is no reason to reply there.

It compiles questions, to GMs, in the #gm-questions channel. The channel was overrun with 1k+ a day musings by everyone, leaving it hard to find and answer questions.

The originating channel also has the question and can be replied there. Staff usually does in that channel as well.

Too many fucking channels and people all day imo

[Tgo01]

Suspiciously absent "We asked the Hand of Arkati to make changes". At least its honest about the age of the game engine.

Then get rid of the spell messages, or make it so if there are more than 30 people (or 16 since that's apparently the laughably small number the game can handle) then all spell messages are hidden.

[Tgo01]

Since Wyrom said this on Discord: "Estild actually politely asked Dreaven today to reduce his number during his spell up. He asked. He didn't demand. He didn't tell him. He asked."

I felt the need to go ahead and post the log of my conversation with Estild on the first post. Sure it sounded like a request at first, but when I asked if I could try for 40 people at a time instead of 16 it quickly went into demand territory. Sure Estild was nice about it, not gonna deny that, but Wyrom up here acting like I had a choice in the matter. The way it was phrased was actually "If you don't do it voluntarily we might have to implement something to force you and everyone into group limits, and you would ruin it for everyone else."

[Murrandii]

This situation is really worrying me and the worst outcome will be a dreaven rage quitting because Simu will force him way to handle his stuff.

Bringing the policy 18 in as a wild card to tell Dreaven: ok, it works like that, shut up and obey. It reminds me of the situation with Zaoloo when they were trying to policy the discussion on ;lnet. They just don't like player to drive their stuff.

But ironically, most people use ;lich (87% if I recall right?)

Everything they're doing is driven, as most said, to remove people ways to NOT use their simustore.

I see no good ending on this, they opened the door to muzzle Dreaven, they won't let go

[Tgo01]

This situation is really worrying me and the worst outcome will be a dreaven rage quitting because Simu will force him way to handle his stuff.

Bringing the policy 18 in as a wild card to tell Dreaven: ok, it works like that, shut up and obey. It reminds me of the situation with Zaoloo when they were trying to policy the discussion on ;lnet. They just don't like player to drive their stuff.

But ironically, most people use ;lich (87% if I recall right?)

Everything they're doing is driven, as most said, to remove people ways to NOT use their simustore.

I see no good ending on this, they opened the door to muzzle Dreaven, they won't let go

I can probably handle spelling up 30 people at a time, but if they enforce this 16 group thing, especially if that includes my 10 people so I'm spelling up 6 people at a time, then yeah I think Dreavenings will become a thing of the past because spelling up 6 people at a time is going to take forever if there are 80-100+ people.

I also have some ideas rattling around in the brain to address the pre-Dreavening services, of course it just requires more work on my part and the end result will be everything is going to be the same as before, but I guess that's what the GMs want.

[Parkbandit]

Ignoreuser Ignore Author



Re: GM's trying to shut down dreavenings on 03/21/2019 08:28 PM CDT

Links-arrows 27



Reply Reply

I'll start another thread going over some of the details of lag, but no one asked Dreaven to stop what he was doing. There were two concerns that were brought up today. Estild asked Dreaven if he could reduce the number of people he spells up at one time. Estild mentioned a number of 16, because this is a number before things start to degrade on our end. Not just spell ups, but many other things going on with the game. The current number of the Dreavening was 60 though, so Estild asked to try 30. Now, there was some discussion on POLICY 18 issues, strictly talking about spell botting. As long as Dreaven is at the keys and not using triggers, there is no concerns though, which was explained by Estild.

Wyrom, PM

If your TEXT BASED FUCKING GAME IN 2019 degrades at the point of more than 16 people.. you might want to consider upgrading your server past your current Commodore 64.

For fuck sake.

[Tgo01]

If your TEXT BASED FUCKING GAME IN 2019 degrades at the point of more than 16 people.. you might want to consider upgrading your server past your current Commodore 64.

For fuck sake.

Yeah at some point he said this:


This is a pretty niche game.
Graphics are all client side.
They aren't on the server
All code is text, just because your display is in text doesn't make it less hard working on the server. If anything, I'd guess GS works harder than a modern MMO.

He's technically right that graphics are handled by our computers, but GS works harder than a modern MMO? An MMO like WoW can have hundreds of people all in the same general area, every time they do an emote, move, cast a spell, whatever, that all gets sent to the server and then to each and every single player within the area. Not to mention things like random critters moving around, a player's projectile and where it's moving to and the path it is taking, a player's spell moving around, each and every single time someone takes damage from any source, anytime a critter takes damage from any source, every time someone's mana is depleted or they regain mana.

Or how about a game like Overwatch, granted it's limited to 12 players but the game has to track where every player is, where their projectiles are flying to, who takes damage and by whom, who dies, who gets health back and by whom, the movement of each player, and more. Anytime any of these actions are performed the code has to be sent to the server and then sent to all 12 players.

There is so much code and commands flying around in games like this that it's absurd to suggest GS works harder due to the sheer number of commands being sent to the server. What's more likely is games like WoW and Overwatch and way better optimized and have better servers so they can handle all of the commands. This would point towards a failure on Simu's part for not keeping the game updated/optimized over the years, not to suggest that GS is just a victim of its own success.

[AnOrdim]

The real answer is actually right in the middle of the most recent post.


GemStone IV is single-threaded, so everything is processed one at a time. When you type in a command, it goes into a queue to execute. Usually this is very quick, so you don't feel it. But as more and more commands get entered, the queue starts to grow to a degree where we see lag.

This is an underlying engine issue, not specifically a hardware one, nor one that hardware could greatly improve. Modern computers are all designed around multi-threaded applications and splitting the work across several cores. A faster processor might help a little bit, but would go mostly unused because the game itself can't split up the work it needs to do.

Everything else in the post is just ways of reducing the number of commands being sent to an antiquated game engine.

[audioserf]

It sounds like fixing lag from basic things like lots of spells being cast/HOA going for a hunt would require a ground-up rewrite of how GS handles commands and, well, lol. Get used to the lag, also Dreaven is reported and banned and so is Ordim because reasons.

[Taernath]

Estild says, "The first is a request. We would like to ask you to limit your "Dreavening" group size to 16 players. It's been identified as one of the sources of lag during prime time hours. We're trying to address it through multiple angles, but this is one area where it would help us if you would voluntarily limit your group size. We would prefer that route as opposed to enforcing a limit on all groups, since that has other implications for story events and group hunts."
You ask, "Is 16 really necessary? Could we try maybe 40 or something to see if that helps first?"
Estild asks, "What is your current group limit?"
You say, "60."
Estild says, "Let's try 30. But do know that if it doesn't help, we may have to further limit it."

Yeah that doesn't sound like a request. You were voluntold.

[Methais]

Bitch, what the fuck do you mean, 'degrade on our end'?

He means that's when they have to put a 5.25" floppy into the B drive to help the one in the A drive.

[Methais]

Watch them be unable to fix this and just nerf spelling up others. Yeah, that feels like the type of thing they'd do.

"Due to the necessity of nerfing spelling up others, we have added various spellup potions to the Simucoin store to compensate."

[Parkbandit]

Yeah at some point he said this:

He's technically right that graphics are handled by our computers, but GS works harder than a modern MMO? An MMO like WoW can have hundreds of people all in the same general area, every time they do an emote, move, cast a spell, whatever, that all gets sent to the server and then to each and every single player within the area. Not to mention things like random critters moving around, a player's projectile and where it's moving to and the path it is taking, a player's spell moving around, each and every single time someone takes damage from any source, anytime a critter takes damage from any source, every time someone's mana is depleted or they regain mana.

Or how about a game like Overwatch, granted it's limited to 12 players but the game has to track where every player is, where their projectiles are flying to, who takes damage and by whom, who dies, who gets health back and by whom, the movement of each player, and more. Anytime any of these actions are performed the code has to be sent to the server and then sent to all 12 players.

There is so much code and commands flying around in games like this that it's absurd to suggest GS works harder due to the sheer number of commands being sent to the server. What's more likely is games like WoW and Overwatch and way better optimized and have better servers so they can handle all of the commands. This would point towards a failure on Simu's part for not keeping the game updated/optimized over the years, not to suggest that GS is just a victim of its own success.

If you have issues with handling 16 people in a text based game without lag, you have done something drastically wrong.

[Methais]

On discord people are suggesting further merging of spell effects, like 401, 406, and 414. You know, something that not only might address this problem, but open up spell slots to other things that could be fun/useful.

It's a pretty safe bet they will go the counter productive group limit route instead.

They won't even finish the existing useless spells. No way they're gonna create more empty slots that need to be filled when they could be spending that time creating shit for DR instead so they can get their cut.

[Parkbandit]

He means that's when they have to put a 5.25" floppy into the B drive to help the one in the A drive.

They upgraded in 2017 to the 3.5" disks. They are sturdier and you don't have to blow the dust off them.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

Have they tried rebooting the server and installing a fresh version of Windows ME?

[Stumplicker]

I've gone into long winded detail about how and why large groups spamming commands lag the server elsewhere so I'll skip it here, but I'm agreeing with some others that lag is just an excuse here. They don't like people sticking near the landing instead of populating the other cities. They don't like people not dying and giving work to Clerics and Empaths. They probably don't like that a Dreavening makes the game ultra easy mode for ostensibly the entire game (though most prominently 1-40 or so). They probably would like to sell more simucoin items to make the game easy mode instead of having it as a free offered service.

But Dreavenings lag the game significantly less than Reim. It's all about the number of commands in the queue and number of screens they have to appear on, and Reim dwarfs Dreavenings.

[Methais]

-Estild’s ego-maniac,power-triping,jealous-filled rage move nerfing -the- second most popular player2player service that existed in the history of GemStone, with cybering with Methais being #1 of course, at least that's what I heard.

Fixed. And this is correct.

[Methais]

And micro-transactions and premium currency and multiple subscription levels and paid events.

How else are they going to afford fire extinguisher inspections?


That's lame and sounds exactly like something Simu would do.

Something something STORMFRONT something something NAZI

https://i.imgur.com/2nlQ3lm.png

Confirmed Estild is LITERALLY HITLER


Since Wyrom said this on Discord: "Estild actually politely asked Dreaven today to reduce his number during his spell up. He asked. He didn't demand. He didn't tell him. He asked."

I felt the need to go ahead and post the log of my conversation with Estild on the first post. Sure it sounded like a request at first, but when I asked if I could try for 40 people at a time instead of 16 it quickly went into demand territory. Sure Estild was nice about it, not gonna deny that, but Wyrom up here acting like I had a choice in the matter. The way it was phrased was actually "If you don't do it voluntarily we might have to implement something to force you and everyone into group limits, and you would ruin it for everyone else."

Fuck that, ruin it for everyone else then. Fuck them. It's not you ruining it for everyone else, it's their ancient punch card based engine per their own admission. Maybe they could try putting some of that DR money back into parts of the game that isn't centered around creating even more P2W bullshit.

Or at the very least, maybe when they force HOTA to make some changes, people might take some of this bullshit from them seriously. It's like a copy giving someone a ticket and lecturing them about their inspection sticker that expired 3 days ago, meanwhile there's a 30 car pileup happening right across the street with explosions and corpses all over the place and they ignore it.

[Methais]

So they won’t do any actual dev to help the game. They keep making casino events to get money from mentally vulnerable people but... they will nerf probably the only good and true thing to come out for a while.

But that isn’t the craziest part. The crazy part is people continue to keep paying Simu money.

Dreaven, my suggestion is to just advertise for a week or two on why there won’t be any more Dreavenings and then just quit. You’re too good for not only this shit game, but this shit company, and the mentally unstable people paying them.

Who the fuck is this sack of asshole lint? Go away macguyver.

[Gelston]

They won't even finish the existing useless spells. No way they're gonna create more empty slots that need to be filled when they could be spending that time creating shit for DR instead so they can get their cut.

Hey pal, they did replace spell store.

[Methais]

I was pulled in today to talk about my Dreavenings.

First I was asked to limit group size to just 16, but that would massively suck so I asked if we could try 40 at first to see if that helps but the compromise was 30 and said if that doesn't help it will have to be lowered.

Also no more "bot" behavior, so I can't do services based on an action of another player. This means just about every pre-Dreavening service that was provided is now gone.

This really sucks and I blame Jesus.

The log of the conversation:

SEND[Estild] Greetings, Dreaven. Do you have a moment?
report yes I have a moment.
You feel yourself being pulled away...
A thick storm of large white feathers whirls into the area, creating a blinding radiance before becoming perfectly still in mid-air. The feathers darken and seem to age rapidly, disintegrating away to reveal Estild.
Estild says, "Greetings."
You say, "Hi there."
>l estild
It is difficult to see Estild, who is completely enshrouded in a thick blanket of silvery grey mist laced with thin indigo threads.
Estild says, "I need to discuss 2 quick issues with you."
You say, "Sure."
Estild says, "The first is a request. We would like to ask you to limit your "Dreavening" group size to 16 players. It's been identified as one of the sources of lag during prime time hours. We're trying to address it through multiple angles, but this is one area where it would help us if you would voluntarily limit your group size. We would prefer that route as opposed to enforcing a limit on all groups, since that has other implications for story events and group hunts."
You ask, "Is 16 really necessary? Could we try maybe 40 or something to see if that helps first?"
Estild asks, "What is your current group limit?"
You say, "60."
Estild says, "Let's try 30. But do know that if it doesn't help, we may have to further limit it."
You say, "Okay."
Estild says, "Thanks."
Estild says, "The second issue is let you know that going forward, we will be enforcing Policy 18's no "bot" rule. Just to be clear, you can still offer you spell ups and other services, but they must be manually activated by you instead of triggered based upon the actions of another player. For example, you may start your script to initiate your countdown, gather up players, cast spells, etc. You may not run always active scripts that cast spells or perform other actions when players nod, whisper, etc. You're not in trouble or receiving any warning for past behavior and this is simply to let you know of the enforcement going forward."
You say, "Alright, thanks for the headsup."
Estild asks, "Any questions or concerns regarding either of those?"
You say, "Well I wish it didn't have to be this way but I understand."
You say, "Wait I have a question."
Estild says, "Sure."
You ask, "What if I do something automatically without someone whispering/tapping/etc first?"
You ask, "Like I just give everyone an armor adjustment in the room without being prompted?"
Estild says, "You may do that."
You ask, "And someone hands my bard something to sing, can I loresing automatically too?"
You say, "There is no tapping involved, they just hand him an item."
Estild says, "That would not be allowed. That is responding to a prompt from another player, then reacting. If someone gives you an item, you may start a script to loresing to it, but you can't run a script that just accepts any item and automatically loresings."
You say, "Alright."
Estild asks, "Any other questions?"
You say, "No, I think I understand it all."
Estild says, "Okay, I'll return you now. Thanks for your understanding."
You say, "Thank you."
Estild waves.
You wave.
The world grows blurry and indistinct. After a moment everything becomes clear again. Looking about, you see...

Estild at his Dreavening monitoring station, on the lookout for botting every 4 hours:

https://www.casino.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/security.jpg

You should increase the frequency of Dreavenings to every hour because fuck them and their "We're blaming our 1980s technology on you doing spellups!" cunting.

[Methais]

Shit up you wyrom lover. Go suck dicks with you ososis, taernath,fortybox and all you losers.

https://i.imgur.com/rmpe3Q7.gif

[Stumplicker]

I didn't see that you edited the conversation itself in until just now. Fuck that. It's got nothing to do with lag. They're just trying to make it difficult so you stop. There's zero reason to make an official warning about policy regarding a different part of what you offer, have offered for more than a year, and that nobody has any problem with, especially since you're there and at the keys.

Estild's the same kind of garbage Mario is.

[Methais]

Hey pal, they did replace spell store.

AND THEY FIXED THE MESSAGING ON SLEEP OMG OMG OMG BEST YEAR FOR DEV EVER!!!!!

[Parkbandit]

Fuck that, ruin it for everyone else then. Fuck them. It's not you ruining it for everyone else, it's their ancient punch card based engine per their own admission.

Funfact: My first college computer programming class used punch cards :(

[Gelston]

Funfact: My first college computer programming class used punch cards :(

Yes, yes, we get it, you were born in the 1800s.

[Methais]

I didn't see that you edited the conversation itself in until just now. Fuck that. It's got nothing to do with lag. They're just trying to make it difficult so you stop. There's zero reason to make an official warning about policy regarding a different part of what you offer, have offered for more than a year, and that nobody has any problem with, especially since you're there and at the keys.

Estild's the same kind of garbage Mario is.

The 1206 thing where everyone predicted a SK 1206 would soon come out for Simucoins sealed the deal for me...they create a new spell, give it to a class that can't use it, justifying it by saying a class that will literally never come out could use it if they ever came out (which is the absolute dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard them say, and they've pulled some whoppers over the years), and then selling a SK item of it a few weeks later for cash.

My faith in Simu was already pretty low, but I completely lost faith in Simu after that. That whole barrel of bullshit sums up everything Simu is about these days and where their priorities lie. Which isn't really anything new, but that was a new low, even for them. Which is really saying something.

They're basically Tsin at this point.

https://i1.wp.com/www.itinthed.com/wp-content/uploads/used_car_salesman2.jpg?fit=500%2C397

[Parkbandit]

Shit up you wyrom lover. Go suck dicks with you ososis, taernath,fortybox and all you losers.

TRANSLATION: Yes, I am MacGayver, the pathetic troll.

[Parkbandit]

Yes, yes, we get it, you were born in the 1800s.

Dumbass. They didn't have computers in the 1800s.

You're dumb. And reported for ageism.

Enjoy your ban.

[Taernath]

Funfact: My first college computer programming class used punch cards :(

This kind of thing attracts Candor, so you should probably delete your post.

[Gelston]

Dumbass. They didn't have computers in the 1800s.

You're dumb. And reported for ageism.

Enjoy your ban.

I DIDN'T SAY YOU GREW UP IN THE 1800S. Reported.

[Parkbandit]

This kind of thing attracts Candor, so you should probably delete your post.

Sweet jesus.. I forgot about that.

Maybe he will miss this one?

[Gelston]

@candor Ready for some memory sharing with pb?

[Tgo01]

The dumbest part about all of this is I've already figured out a way around this botting rule, it's just going to require some more coding on my part and rather than just having a script running all of the time to give people services a script will be run once to give one person a service, then exits, then runs again when needed.

So it's going to require more coding on my part, be a more convoluted system of running a script once every time someone needs a service instead of just starting one script for everyone, but the end result will end up being the exact same thing as before.

I'm hoping once (if) my post on the officials receives some GM attention I can convince them that the policy as written is dumb and should be changed.

The obvious part that needs to be written is afk bot behavior is not allowed. But if they also want to crackdown on people sitting someone paying attention to their bot for hours at a time then simply make it so you can only run a bot for 15 minutes at a time every 4 hours. Those are just two numbers I completely pulled out of my house. But no seriously, unless the GMs are prepared to ban all scripts outright then they should probably look into rewording this bot behavior.

[Methais]

So it's going to require more coding on my part, be a more convoluted system of running a script once every time someone needs a service instead of just starting one script for everyone, but the end result will end up being the exact same thing as before.

Estild's gonna be mad when he realizes he's going to have to come up with a new excuse to try and nerf Dreavenings after this happens.

You should add a pre-Reim Dreavening for HOTA to your Dreavening schedule. Or even better, do it in actual Reim just to see who Simu blames.

I would also encourage everyone who attends Dreavening to bring enough food and/or drink to steadily be consuming it nonstop for the full 15 minutes. Or just stock up on Hearthstone food or whatever before a Dreavening and dump it all on the floor at the table and have a Dreavening buffet while everyone spams WHO FULL in between bites of their food.

Then have Bob come back and roll a bunch of F2P accounts that all run breakgs.cmd

[Tgo01]

Then have Bob come back and roll a bunch of F2P accounts that all run breakgs.cmd

What did that script do? Like spam "report FUCK YOU ALL" or something like that?

[Gelston]

What did that script do? Like spam "report FUCK YOU ALL" or something like that?

It would recite Fuck you gaymasters! then report Fuck you gaymasters! in a loop

[Neveragain]

Funfact: My first college computer programming class used punch cards :(

Estild on Dreavening watch:

https://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2012/09/23/20120923-171949-pic-224799225_s1646x2048.jpg?cfbd5dd6d6a84301da70a1392 1990d699ec8c5ab

[Methais]

Estild on Dreavening watch:

https://twt-thumbs.washtimes.com/media/image/2012/09/23/20120923-171949-pic-224799225_s1646x2048.jpg?cfbd5dd6d6a84301da70a1392 1990d699ec8c5ab

He's literally holding all of Gemstone IV in his left hand.

[Tgo01]

We spent the night and morning push through some updates to see if they will improve the game performance for how spells work. It won't cut down on the messaging (which is one of the issues), but it should help out some some of the choking that is going on. We might need to continue to make tweaks to the system. As of right now, there shouldn't be any noticeable difference to you, the players. If you do notice something, please BUG it in game.

At this point, going back to casting for up to 60 people should be fine. If this changes, we'll make an announcement about it.

>>Can we get some clarifications as to what triggers would run afoul of Policy 18?

We are going to be discussing POLICY 18 and spell botting at our next senior staff meeting, which will be next week. We will post any changes/clarifications in the policy topic when we're ready for that.

That was a quick turnaround on the 60 player limit. I would also be interested in seeing what the new changes to the policy are going to be.

[Methais]

That was a quick turnaround on the 60 player limit. I would also be interested in seeing what the new changes to the policy are going to be.

"We tried our best, but it didn't work. As an alternative, we have added new spellup potions to the Simucoin store. They are listed as Draevening potions, which we assure you has nothing at all to do with Dreavenings. It just happened to be what we ended up naming them. We didn't even notice the similarities until they were already finished being approved by QC! What a coincidence!"

[audioserf]

I am still curious if you can duck the botting thing by having people request services exclusively over Lnet chats, which staff can't see. How are they to know you aren't just generously giving everyone armor support? :)

[Methais]

https://i.imgur.com/Djo4PiE.png

[Gelston]

https://i.imgur.com/Djo4PiE.png

rofl

[Tgo01]

I am still curious if you can duck the botting thing by having people request services exclusively over Lnet chats, which staff can't see. How are they to know you aren't just generously giving everyone armor support? :)

They said I can just give everyone armor support in the room as long as they aren't tapping/whispering me first, so I'm going with that route. This could work for armor evasion, armor support, blesses, etc.

This wouldn't work for loresinging because the trigger is someone handing me the item, there is no way to loresing at someone's item without them handing me the item.

But the thing is I'm allowed to automatically accept an item (I would imagine, Wyrom didn't want to specifically say that was allowed but I'm willing to bet it is.) At this point I see I have two options. After the item has been accepted someone can just send me an ;lnet message which would then trigger a random wait time at which point it will start up a script which would loresing to the item and hand it back to the person, since the GMs have stated there is nothing against policy of starting up a script to provide such a service, the problem is having the script running at all times and then waiting for a trigger.

The other option is to have a script running that just checks to see who handed me an item, and there is nothing botting about keeping track of who handed me an item. Then there is a flag on my computer that checks for something in my bard's hand and when it sees he's holding something it can wait a random number of seconds then start up the script that will loresing to the item and hand it back to the person who gave it to my bard.

Therefore it's not a script running that waits for a trigger, it's perfectly within the scope of policy as long as I'm starting up a script one person at a time. The only thing is I'm not technically the one starting up the script, my computer is still doing that, but I would love to see GMs try and prove that. Their other recourse would be to ban scripts or to specifically say I am not allowed to do these services.

[Tgo01]

https://i.imgur.com/Djo4PiE.png

Don't give them any ideas now :O

[Parkbandit]

That was a quick turnaround on the 60 player limit. I would also be interested in seeing what the new changes to the policy are going to be.

Poor HJFudge must be so distraught over this news.

IT'S NOT FAIR THEY TOOK YOUR SIDE!

[Tgo01]

Poor HJFudge must be so distraught over this news.

IT'S NOT FAIR THEY TOOK YOUR SIDE!

Probably, he was resorting to downright slander yesterday on Discord when it turned out it was pretty much just Alastir who was taking his side of things.

[Taernath]

Poor HJFudge must be so distraught over this news.

IT'S NOT FAIR THEY TOOK YOUR SIDE!

I really hope he stops by again to remind us of how cool and over us he is.

[Methais]

I really hope he stops by again to remind us of how cool and over us he is.

He's a former Florida laser tag state champion.

Consider this a death threat.

[Methais]

Well, offering as many spells as he does is also kind of killing self-sufficiency too.

How does this add up when Simu has always encouraged grouping with other players, is cool with people running 472398032 accounts at once, etc.? I can't recall much of anything they've ever said/done to encourage or indicate that they give any shits at all about self-sufficiency other than stripping spells in the Rift.

[Tgo01]

How does this add up when Simu has always encouraged grouping with other players, is cool with people running 472398032 accounts at once, etc.? I can't recall much of anything they've ever said/done about self-sufficiency other than stripping spells in the Rift.

Yeah I had a laugh at that self-sufficiency line too. I remember way back in the day, before everyone had spellup bots, people were complaining about those who do have spellup bots. GMs were basically like "Free money for us, bitches!" Now suddenly we are worried about people being self-sufficient?

[Astray]

That statement makes Wyrom sound like a whiny bitch. Play the game how he wants you to, guys.

[Alastir]

Probably, he was resorting to downright slander yesterday on Discord when it turned out it was pretty much just Alastir who was taking his side of things.

I didn't take his side. If I weren't self sufficient I would totally use dreavenings and worship them. IMO they're super useful for that "solo" player who doesn't have a lot of extra help.

I was just commenting on the amount of retarded going around about things.

They asked you to limit the group size, and not have triggered bots.


If he wanted to be a dick about it he probably could have waited and given you a warning/ban. But he didn't.

I guess I just don't see this as being a big deal. Do your thing, just do it in smaller groups.

[Stumplicker]

I didn't take his side. If I weren't self sufficient I would totally use dreavenings and worship them. IMO they're super useful for that "solo" player who doesn't have a lot of extra help.

I was just commenting on the amount of retarded going around about things.

They asked you to limit the group size, and not have triggered bots.


If he wanted to be a dick about it he probably could have waited and given you a warning/ban. But he didn't.

I guess I just don't see this as being a big deal. Do your thing, just do it in smaller groups.

You didn't see it as a big deal when you started deleting your scam threads to whitewash your history either, so forgive us if we don't put a lot of weight in your knowledge or opinions.

[Tgo01]

I didn't take his side. If I weren't self sufficient I would totally use dreavenings and worship them. IMO they're super useful for that "solo" player who doesn't have a lot of extra help.

I was just commenting on the amount of retarded going around about things.

They asked you to limit the group size, and not have triggered bots.


If he wanted to be a dick about it he probably could have waited and given you a warning/ban. But he didn't.

I guess I just don't see this as being a big deal. Do your thing, just do it in smaller groups.

Sure the GMs could have banned me on the spot, but seeing as how they have known about this for well over 2 years now I don't think that would have went over well with the community.

Also the original request of 16 people at a time would have made Dreavenings a complete pain in the ass to do, especially if they want me to include my 10 characters in that 16 person figure.

And lastly they could have just reviewed Policy 16 and determined it was dumb and needed to be changed instead of saying hey let's now completely enforce this outdated and unnecessary rule.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

include my 10 characters

So you pay for 10 accounts each month? Is it still 12 or 13 bucks or whatever an account?

[Taernath]

I guess I just don't see this as being a big deal. Do your thing, just do it in smaller groups.

Limiting groups to 16 effectively kills dreavenings. He controls 10 characters, so he'd be spelling up only 6 people at a time and spending all his time in game trying to get through the 100 or so he currently does.

[Tgo01]

So you pay for 10 accounts each month? Is it still 12 or 13 bucks or whatever an account?

14.95 per account for a basic account.

[Suppa Hobbit Mage]

14.95 per account for a basic account.

No judging here, was just curious. I spend prob a hundred bucks a month on some dumb phone apps. Everyone needs entertainment.

[Alastir]

Sure the GMs could have banned me on the spot, but seeing as how they have known about this for well over 2 years now I don't think that would have went over well with the community.

Also the original request of 16 people at a time would have made Dreavenings a complete pain in the ass to do, especially if they want me to include my 10 characters in that 16 person figure.

And lastly they could have just reviewed Policy 16 and determined it was dumb and needed to be changed instead of saying hey let's now completely enforce this outdated and unnecessary rule.


Well, yeah, 16 is dumb. But so is 100 people all crammed into 1 room.

It's pretty well known that 100+ people in 1 room = bad things.

[Methais]

Well, yeah, 16 is dumb. But so is 100 people all crammed into 1 room.

It's pretty well known that 100+ people in 1 room = bad things.

So you think invasions and other events that attract huge numbers should stop happening too?

[Alastir]

So you think invasions and other events that attract huge numbers should stop happening too?

Yes, that's exactly what I said.


I've suggested many times that during merchant events, 2-3 merchants come out at the same time to split the herd.

And I've never seen invasions cause anywhere near the same amount of people in 1 room.

[Murrandii]

man, warcamping with 2 players, whenever you get 2 waves at the same time it lags. Let's be honest here

[Methais]

And I've never seen invasions cause anywhere near the same amount of people in 1 room.

Game crashes caused by invasions: More than 0

Game crashes caused by Dreavenings: 0

[Alastir]

Game crashes caused by invasions: More than 0

Game crashes caused by Dreavenings: 0

People who claimed the game crashes because of invasions or Dreavenings: 0

[Gelston]

People who claimed the game crashes because of invasions or Dreavenings: 0

Um, the game has crashed due to invasions. So no, not 0.

[Ososis]

They either should stand up and say "Fuck you dreaven because we can and so we do" and ban your activities (at least that would be an honest reason instead of hiding behind arbitrary policy enforcement) or they should find a way to just make this work for the Elanthia we now live in. Not sure it's possible, but could they create a new table at the Wayside Inn that is reserved for Dreaven and has unique settings to minimize the large amount of activity that takes place? Same of HotA, give them 2 secret access rooms in Reim with similarly tailored settings to address the probelms cropping up. I think both groups have put in enough effort at this point to deserve it. In any case, ban it cause you want to or work on a solution. Spending time working on a way to make it against the rules is dumb.

As you navigate this shit show Dreaven, be wary. It's clear there are those who wish you ill and they are in positions to do that if you get loose. They may not officially monitor LNET but that doesn't mean they can't use it to send you the "tap" command on some random alt and still peg you for botting. Maybe have a rewritable paper your "bots" could collect names on then you actively trigger the script that runs of that list? I don't know. You're obviously an intelligent guy and will figure something out. I've never been shy about my personal dislike of the dreavenings, but I dislike the way this is being handled and misrepresented exponentially more so.

[Methais]

People who claimed the game crashes because of invasions or Dreavenings: 0

I just claimed that the game crashes because of invasions, which makes that number more than 0.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/aafae62a4840af28746f2a78825b2685/tenor.gif?itemid=12248976

[Ploobar]

I have to get rid of every service that relies on a prompt from another player. So I could cast consecrate + bless at everyone at the table, but I can't dispel a weapon because that would require you giving the weapon to Najash which is a prompt.

I mean I COULD still do that, it's just I have to manually start a script to do all of that every time someone taps Najash, which would be a lot of work.

I'm wondering why the fuck 'tapping' or 'whispering' to one of them, is worse than 'asking'? I mean, you have them *telling* everyone already what they have to do to get <whatever> service, so how the fuck is that any different from me going to the town square and asking over and over for someone to do a spell or whatever?

And like everyone else, the only times I've ever noticed lag was during the REIM shit, which means that those pompous asses with deep pockets who AFK scripted their character(s) to cap in 30 days are the ones being the rats and whining to the GM's that they're tired of the lag themselves and want all the throughput for *themselves and their REIM hunt* and fuck the peons with one character who needs spells and services who hunt to actually enjoy the game and the cameraderie.

[Ploobar]

Cyanide is the cure for cancer too! And guns! Shoot cancer in the face! Except in NZ and UK, they can stab cancer in the face! Well maybe not in UK. They can run over cancer with a truck!

No, in UK cancer will be cured/killed by the terrorists taking over the nation.

[Neveragain]

Well, yeah, 16 is dumb. But so is 100 people all crammed into 1 room.

It's pretty well known that 100+ people in 1 room = bad things.

Such a fucking stupid argument. They haven't upgraded their infrastructure with their profits over the years. Nothing but greed has caused this issue, piss poor management. Hell they have spent the last few years trying to corral the entire community into the landing.

[Gelston]

Honestly, I think the massive invasions are over done. It get that it is the easiest way to engage the most people, but it just feels stale to me. I think they need to get more NPCs out there more often. I mean, IMO, if you have 4 GMs on duty, 3 should be out there RPing as NPCs. You don't need to have some storyline out there to engage players, just roll in as a random d00d.

Whatever though. Spam 536453 critters for an invasion and then blame Dreavenings for the system breaking down.

[Simu]

https://i.giphy.com/media/bHfHm8pkMD99C/giphy.gif

[Methais]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/GrizzledRemorsefulGhostshrimp-small.gif

shut up macgayver


https://i.giphy.com/media/bHfHm8pkMD99C/giphy.gif

shut up macgayver

[Gelston]

shut up macgayver



shut up macgayver

shut up macmethais

[Methais]

shut up macmethais


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c4_b5PHWg8

[Mobius1]

Honestly, I think the massive invasions are over done. It get that it is the easiest way to engage the most people, but it just feels stale to me. I think they need to get more NPCs out there more often. I mean, IMO, if you have 4 GMs on duty, 3 should be out there RPing as NPCs. You don't need to have some storyline out there to engage players, just roll in as a random d00d.

Whatever though. Spam 536453 critters for an invasion and then blame Dreavenings for the system breaking down.

Yeah, some Windcaller guy just showed up in IMT giving out armbands for flowers. Not exactly my thing, but damn I wish they did more stuff like this. It's always refreshing to see GM interaction like that.

[Parkbandit]

I didn't take his side. If I weren't self sufficient I would totally use dreavenings and worship them. IMO they're super useful for that "solo" player who doesn't have a lot of extra help.

I was just commenting on the amount of retarded going around about things.

They asked you to limit the group size, and not have triggered bots.


If he wanted to be a dick about it he probably could have waited and given you a warning/ban. But he didn't.

I guess I just don't see this as being a big deal. Do your thing, just do it in smaller groups.

He could give him a warning / ban for what? Spelling people up?

Yea.. that would have gone really, really well for him.

He was at least smart enough to realize this and told tgo01 to "volunteer" to his demands.

[Ososis]

shut up macgayver
shut up macgayver

ROFL I think he expected that to be a taunting reveal of his covert alts.

[Fallen]

Glad things kinda/sorta worked out. I'm happy to see they are trying to deal with the lag situation, but I do wish they worked at the backend stuff a lot more before they went after player interaction. Stuff like HOTA and Dreavenings are IMO positive forms of player interaction, not to mention the fact that they were considering altering the way invasions and storylines could be run. Having to limit the amount of players that can gather and interact in a multiplayer game should be the absolute last resort.

Here's hoping the end result to all of this mess is less lag and no policy-based impacts to group/room sizes. If anything, i'd like to see these types of events grow in number and size if the game can change to allow it.

[malmuddy]

Out of curiosity, how big are the HOTA groups that run into Reim?

[Astray]

The Back Down, starring Wyrom and Estild.

Two equally useless, completely out of touch people with a modicum of power attempting to remove what is basically wholesome, helpful interaction because their shit is broken and they'd rather funnel cocaine up their assholes than fix anything. The cock suckers.

[Gelston]

Yeah, some Windcaller guy just showed up in IMT giving out armbands for flowers. Not exactly my thing, but damn I wish they did more stuff like this. It's always refreshing to see GM interaction like that.

That is actually a yearly event.

[Alastir]

Out of curiosity, how big are the HOTA groups that run into Reim?

On most nights, maybe 20.

On farm nights, up to 30.

[Donquix]

Honestly Wyrom is a dullard who had a chance to really make something of this genre. There’s so much you can do with the written word rather than graphics. How about co-op dungeons with more puzzles/storyline, or character factions that gets settled ina PvP town/castle.

So much shit you cando with the game and he turned it into a casino. The way gaming is going there’s going to be a massive backlash against the whole microtrans/lootbox structure. They are going to want to hire a creator and not a pitboss at the Bellagio.

Those things all are in game. It's just the 15-40 dollars a month for mud isn't QUITE enough to unlock them so you have to pay another 10 dollars to do a quest one time.

<jazz hands>

[Methais]

ROFL I think he expected that to be a taunting reveal of his covert alts.

if macguyver's alts were Spider-Man:

https://i.imgflip.com/2wrhdr.jpg

[Gnomad]

I have to get rid of every service that relies on a prompt from another player. So I could cast consecrate + bless at everyone at the table, but I can't dispel a weapon because that would require you giving the weapon to Najash which is a prompt.

I mean I COULD still do that, it's just I have to manually start a script to do all of that every time someone taps Najash, which would be a lot of work.

I'm pretty sure you could make it work within the botting rules by:

Taps or whatever queue up the names (edit: ids, not names, ofc) of people to dispel/adjust/etc. Script does nothing else at this time, just sits in a holding pattern.
Script has a command to dequeue whomever is next in line to get dispelled/adjust/etc., and does the entire process for that person once you manually hit the dequeue command.
Set the command to a stormfront macro or something.

Alt-tab to Najash, Shift-F3, alt-tab to whichever alt is next.

Without seeing your code, i'd guess the easiest way to retrofit this in would be having the queuing on its own thread (part of a downstream hook?) and and the script just pauses itself before each new person in line.

It'd obviously be more annoying than the current process, but it would probably be doable.

[Tgo01]

I'm pretty sure you could make it work within the botting rules by:

Taps or whatever queue up the names (edit: ids, not names, ofc) of people to dispel/adjust/etc. Script does nothing else at this time, just sits in a holding pattern.
Script has a command to dequeue whomever is next in line to get dispelled/adjust/etc., and does the entire process for that person once you manually hit the dequeue command.
Set the command to a stormfront macro or something.

Alt-tab to Najash, Shift-F3, alt-tab to whichever alt is next.

Without seeing your code, i'd guess the easiest way to retrofit this in would be having the queuing on its own thread (part of a downstream hook?) and and the script just pauses itself before each new person in line.

It'd obviously be more annoying than the current process, but it would probably be doable.

Yeah this botting rule is silly because it's so easy to circumvent while still not breaking the rule. That's why I've asked Wyrom to just redo the policy to save myself some coding which will end up having the same end result as before.

The rule could simply be afk botting is not allowed, I think everyone can agree with this. Also put a time limit on how long one can run a "bot" script, like only for 15 minutes every 4 hours. Otherwise the GMs are going to have to just assume or guess that someone is botting with no real way to prove it. Putting a time limit on it gives them an easy way to track and punish people who abuse botting.

Their only other real option is to start cracking down heavily on scripts altogether, and something tells me that's not a road they want to go down.

[Methais]

Their only other real option is to start cracking down heavily on scripts altogether, and something tells me that's not a road they want to go down.

Everyone will get banned at every DR if they did that.

[Taernath]

I don't see them changing or clarifying policy.

Also, there is a time limit in place for how long you script, it's like 25% of your time in game or 10 minutes, whichever comes first, and it's entirely up to GM discretion. It's on the website.

[Parkbandit]

I don't see them changing or clarifying policy.

Also, there is a time limit in place for how long you script, it's like 25% of your time in game or 10 minutes, whichever comes first, and it's entirely up to GM discretion. It's on the website.

LOL.

So. Dumb.

[Methais]

LOL.

So. Dumb.

I'm gonna run a script that does ACT SHARTS ALL OVER THE PLACE every 90 seconds on loop forever.

[Taernath]

LOL.

So. Dumb.

It really is. Here's the relevant excerpt:


What constitutes long-term scripting? The following is a general guide to help you avoid being warned by a GM for long term scripting. It's not an absolute and the GM's judgment will vary from instance to instance. Each instance of long term scripting will be judged independently. However, any scripting activity that lasts over 10 minutes will be considered long-term scripting. Also, spending 25% or more of your time online scripting will be considered excessive. In any case, AFK scripting is entirely against GemStone IV policy and is immediately a warnable offense (If you need to go grab a sandwich or leave your keyboard, you should stop any experience scripting to avoid being warned. The excuse that you left your keyboard only for a few minutes will not prevent you from gaining a warning since the GM will have no way of verifying that fact).

Exception: In general, if you are running a script that does not gain you experience, it does not fall under this policy. However, any script that's deemed by a GM to be disruptive or not in the best interest of GemStone IV or its players will be warned when discovered. IE, if you script moving in and out of a room, it may garner a warning because it causes undue screen scroll.

Bolded parts are the 'gotcha' clauses.


I'm gonna run a script that does ACT SHARTS ALL OVER THE PLACE every 90 seconds on loop forever.

Warned for not being in the best interest of GS or its players.

[Astray]

Methais just limped North, hands clutching the back of his pants.

[Methais]

It really is. Here's the relevant excerpt:



Bolded parts are the 'gotcha' clauses.



Warned for not being in the best interest of GS or its players.

Considering the overall mental illness/instability of the average GS player and the fact that pretty much all GMs are former players, there should be nothing at all in policy that's left up to a GM's discretion ever.

[Donquix]

Obsessing over the policy is really waste of time. If they change policy and banned someone for said new policy without warning, yes obviously go nuts that's some bullshit. Otherwise, policy is "whatever the fuck simu doesn't want you to do today"

If the policy doesn't reflect that, they'll just change it. (which is why that dumbass policy is all shitily written in the first place, as they already rewrote it once to stop table bots)

[Parkbandit]

I cannot, for the life of me, believe some of you people still play that game AND pay them $15 a month to let them treat you like shit.

Amazing.

[Methais]

I cannot, for the life of me, believe some of you people still play that game AND pay them $15 a month to let them treat you like shit.

Amazing.

Don't forget about the Premium tards who pay $40/mo. :lol:

I can make fun of them too even though I still play because I make more back than I put in. And it makes work go by faster so I can get home and play a real game. And things. And stuff.

[Gelston]

Don't forget about the Premium tards who pay $40/mo. :lol:

I can make fun of them too even though I still play because I make more back than I put in. And it makes work go by faster so I can get home and play a real game. And things. And stuff.

Platinum is worth the money though.

[Taernath]

Platinum is worth the money though.

https://i.imgflip.com/2wsd7p.jpg

[Gelston]

https://i.imgflip.com/2wsd7p.jpg

No because wow sucks donkey balls

[Cyprion]

I'm really shocked people haven't created GS4 private servers. Maybe it exists and isn't public knowledge. Seems like it would be easier being text based and all the mapping and programmers here from lich. Current games like WoW and cancelled games like SWG and Asheron's call have them. The subscription price for such an old text base game and people seem to be fine with that.

[Astray]

I'm really shocked people haven't created GS4 private servers. Maybe it exists and isn't public knowledge. Seems like it would be easier being text based and all the mapping and programmers here from lich. Current games like WoW and cancelled games like SWG and Asheron's call have them. The subscription price for such an old text base game and people seem to be fine with that.

There's no way to make a private server of GS4, far as I know. I mean, if there were, it'd probably incur the wrath of Simutronics because of the small population. It'd be impossible to ignore a portion of the population migrating elsewhere.

[Stumplicker]

Hahaha. MUD code is entirely server side. It's not like WoW where you've got 80 gigabytes of resources on a local drive and the server is just manipulating them. Everything happens on Simu's computer and it prints text at you. The only way to create a private gemstone server would be to get a copy of their codebase. The closest thing you could get to recreating it otherwise would be to just start from one of the free mud codebases and try to emulate Gemstone's systems. Diku works very differently than Gemstone does at the bottom level, so you're basically rewriting it all.

Edit to add: But yes, I agree with the sentiment that plat is stupid, especially in Gemstone's case where development and GM time are already strained to the limit. Plat means you have to do every event twice. For 5 people who could just be playing on the test server for the same experience.

[Gelston]

I'm really shocked people haven't created GS4 private servers. Maybe it exists and isn't public knowledge. Seems like it would be easier being text based and all the mapping and programmers here from lich. Current games like WoW and cancelled games like SWG and Asheron's call have them. The subscription price for such an old text base game and people seem to be fine with that.

People have made MUDs that are similar to GS, but most people stay with GS because they have so much shit in it.

[liquiddrool]

Is there some bug they are troubleshooting that was related to the group size? Seems like they only temporarily(and of course in Simu time that means 5-7 years) banned you from large groups.

And the automatic spell ups is a little weak to enforce, especially if you are there watching, but then again -- how can they confirm you are there watching other than script checking every time?

Overall, not a bad GM intervention. I've had worse.

[liquiddrool]

And to all posting about recreating Gemstone on a Free to Play platform(which Simu already provides) -- every single room is already available to players. The only thing left to create are the verbs and combat system, much of which is also documented through player logs. It would take some effort but is doable. I don't suggest it though, quite pointless when Simu provides it.

[Tgo01]

Is there some bug they are troubleshooting that was related to the group size? Seems like they only temporarily(and of course in Simu time that means 5-7 years) banned you from large groups.

And the automatic spell ups is a little weak to enforce, especially if you are there watching, but then again -- how can they confirm you are there watching other than script checking every time?

Overall, not a bad GM intervention. I've had worse.

They didn’t really explain why they allowed larger group sizes again, they just said they changed something.

[Tgo01]

How well do you all think this would go over with the GMs?


>We'll have updates on this in April. It will be in the policy topic.

Alright. I still have people today asking me when I can bring the services back because they have been trying to find people to help them out to no avail. So these people who claimed they were robbed of interactions because of me apparently aren't stepping in to help or there aren't as many people who wanted to help out as they thought.

I've had some people message me saying they enjoyed having the same person eblade their arrows because apparently mixing eblades from different casters doesn't work and it was nice to have a reliable way to have the same caster be available to offer eblading.

I found a way to provide armor support, armor evasion, and armored fluidity by saving their preference and then running a script that goes through everyone in the room and gives them the armor choice they asked for. No trigger needed.

Offering up blesses again was as simple as just having people send me a private message on LNet, no in game triggers there.

It seems to me to suddenly enforce this rule without any discussion beforehand was to appease a very small number of players against the wishes and wants of a much larger number of players.

I have tried my best to not disrupt the enjoyment of others by the nature of Dreavenings. I moved them away from TSW not only to help reduce server lag and to prevent another crash, but also to move the "bots" away from a public space and move them to a private place where only people who actively seek out my services would be bothered. I have also within the past week made many changes to again further reduce the strain my events have on the server, even though not a single person (even the people who cheered this bot enforcement rule) has ever said they notice lag from my castings.

I understand having bots running around 24/7 would be bad for the game, I can also understand the need to get bots out of public spaces such as TSC. But are we really going to suggest that an event that lasts for 15 minutes every 4 hours 2-4 times a day and takes places at a private table is going to ruin the game's integrity, but the integrity will be kept in tact if I simply push a single key to run a macro that ends up doing the exact same thing as a reactive script?

I can't fathom how TAPping one of my characters for armor support ruins the game but having the same character just provide everyone in the room with armor support doesn't.

Since this all seems to boil down to a 2-3 second delay on my part to hit a macro key as opposed to it happening instantly I'll go ahead and code a random delay into the script to make everything seem more "natural." I also won't have my characters auto repeat the services they provide anymore, people will have to ask how to get those services or remember it.

[Taernath]

Alright. I still have people today asking me when I can bring the services back because they have been trying to find people to help them out to no avail. So these people who claimed they were robbed of interactions because of me apparently aren't stepping in to help or there aren't as many people who wanted to help out as they thought.

lol'ed heartily