Help with Wizard

[Ryenn]

I am open to any suggestions or training plans.

[Stunseed]

I play a OHE/Shield Wizard and the DS is never better.

[AnticorRifling]

If I were going to be a pure I'd do 3x spells.

Close second would be ohe/shield.

[AnticorRifling]

Originally posted by Ryenn

Also, I don't really care about spell aim if hunting with solely CS is viable.

Be a sorcerer then.

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Ryenn
I haven't quite worked out the numbers but isn't it possible to do 3x spells as well as OHE/shield?

Also, I don't really care about spell aim if hunting with solely CS is viable.

Do not become one sided, keep all options open with the way GS changes if you go with a no spell aiming regime you will not be happy. Keep your character viable and flexible to a point.

[Stunseed]

Mine's OHE/Shield with like 2.75x spells, 2x spell aim, and a few special things ( like 2 ranks MoC for those lovely mass 908 spells ).

[Brattt8525]

Originally posted by Ryenn
Heh, I have a sorcerer.

The only thing I meant by that was if I had to forgo spell aim to 3x spells would it be worth it - again, I have never really played a wizard and am largely unfamiliar with their CS spell capabilities.

I am not concerned with fitting into what is expected of any character I play, I am only interested in having the best hunter possible regardless of profession. If that means I have to train unconventionally, then so be it.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Spell aiming is a core skill for a wizard, has nothing to do with training unconventionally, IMHO it would be very bad to not train in it.

[Askip]

3X spells is not needed, nor is 12X magic ranks.

I have a runestaff mage that does very well self-spelled in OTF, and he has put lots of TPs in secondary/tertiary skills:

Askip (at level 91), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Brawling...........................| 5 1
Physical Fitness...................| 99 23
Arcane Symbols.....................| 215 115
Magic Item Use.....................| 286 186
Spell Aiming.......................| 286 186
Harness Power......................| 191 91
Elemental Mana Control.............| 160 60
Spirit Mana Control................| 102 24
Survival...........................| 193 93
Perception.........................| 193 93
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30
First Aid..........................| 193 93

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 73

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 75

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 92

The 1X each in Survival and FA allows him to skin decently, and the 24 ranks SMC let him use his Major Sanctuary and Raise Dead toys.

Regarding CS: he usually casts 415 first for the knockdown/stun and gets lots of crit kills too. After that it's usually 904 acid to death. With 516 Leech there is never a mana problem. Also, even with 2X Spell Aim his CS is higher than his AS (currently 477 vs. 454 with COL signs up).

Defense is not a problem either, he has DB items he does not bother to wear. Add 103 and a statue, he has a DS of 614 in guarded.

:D

[Jolena]

3x spells I don't think would be possible if you train in board/sword for DS benefits. You honestly would not be swinging with only singling in sword, however the parry and DS benefits makes it worth singling in my opinion. I have a wizard who is pure and one who has board/sword for DS. Both of them rely completely upon magic to hunt and so far I like them both. DS wise, my board/sword wizard has much better defense. It's viable to go either way however, and both of them coincidentally, are at about 2.7x spells despite the difference in training.

Oh and I would NOT suggest you skip Spell AIM. It's a staple for Wizards, you'll regret it later and you should at least 2x it if you are going to train in it.

[hectomaner]

man, 3x spells is the way to go

Dazmar (at level 69), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 20 4
Physical Fitness...................| 108 26
Arcane Symbols.....................| 182 82
Magic Item Use.....................| 188 88
Spell Aiming.......................| 242 142
Harness Power......................| 170 70
Elemental Mana Control.............| 170 70
Climbing...........................| 108 26
Swimming...........................| 108 26

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 69

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 69

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 69

self spelled, i have a 407 AS, 394 CS in all 3 circles, and as far as DS goes i dont know exact number, but it goes from 430-550 in guarded/defensive, i think its usually high 400s in guarded which is what i'm usually at when i get hit

[Jolena]

Out of curiosity, do you enchant? And if so, when were you able to start enchanting/what level did you enchant to.

[Parkbandit]

God.. that made me almost wish I was still playing gemstone. Wizard with NO perception ranks.

[Miss Jade]

when you say 3x spell train is that every level or every few??
________
MERCEDES-BENZ R129 HISTORY (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_R129)

[Sylph]

I haven't seen anyone with lore training yet.... wtf mates?

[Askip]

Lores fall into the "neat but not worth the TPs" category for me, and they are not part of my RP. I'll eventually get some after reaching the cap.

Plus, I am still pissed the system was not designed to allow a mage to change alignment at will, if s/he has the necessary 20 ranks minimum in each.

:D

[Stunseed]

Mine has 20 ranks of fire lore so I can do the neato-completo eye trick for RP reasons.

Keyvon (at level 46), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 70 15
Shield Use.........................| 105 25
Edged Weapons......................| 105 25
Multi Opponent Combat..............| 10 2
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 177 77
Magic Item Use.....................| 179 79
Spell Aiming.......................| 196 96
Harness Power......................| 164 64
Elemental Mana Control.............| 148 48
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 90 20
Perception.........................| 70 15
Climbing...........................| 117 29
Swimming...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 24

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 43

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 45

Askip's tactic is quite sound, using 415 for knockdown/stun/kill, then 904. I'm using that tactic in Bonespear right now, and besides Eidolon's, the Dark Magician is tearing it up.

[Jolena]

so you're not going to do any training in mana share, MIU or arcane symbols?

[Slingblade]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
God.. that made me almost wish I was still playing gemstone. Wizard with NO perception ranks.

Unless it changed with GS4 (I haven't been keeping up), perception does very little to spot a thief in your pockets. Having pickpocket skill is/was the biggest factor by far.

Correct me if this has been changed with GS4.

[Theyesman]

Dude, you want 24 ranks EMC ASAP for leech. If you don't have it you'll be crippled.
Quick question: Why are you going OHE? Why not do a useful skill like brawling for Voln Fu? Your AS is gonna suck, and even using haste, you'll find yourself crippled using an OHE.

Who cares if you can swing it in 1 second? At the higher tier hunting zones that you are on the brink of, you won't want to be using any UBER items for fear of item attrition(you're a wizard, not a warrior, the chance of losing that fel hafter that you use solely for parry DS just isn't worth it.)

My wizard, who uses the 3x spells route uses standard(4x gear) at level 72. Granted I died twice tonight, but it was because of stupid shit. One time I got bound... btw your spirit TD will always suck, and another time some rogue opened a scale trap at the sands without remembering to disarm it. Eventually, I'll be enchanting some full leather to 7x for the extra 15 DS because that's cool, but odds are, when I'm hunting plane 4-5 and OTF I'll be using a 0x or 4x runestaff just because i don't want to risk my 7x one being lost and SIMU saying SUX FOR JOO!!!!! GUESS YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DISARMED FUCKWAD! Not to mention that when you assist about items and shit they make up policy as they go along, but that's beside the point.

So yeah, wizard... level 60ish... 3x spells is a lot of fun. If you want to pick up a weapon type, pick up something different that augments your abilities rather than just something that's typical and there. Voln fu is SICK good, and you really don't want to waste your time with some shitty little wet noodle OHE that can't compare to your bolts. Also, run the numbers on each weapon type/tp/ds wise and see what you're losing out if you for instance drop 20 ranks of shield and OHE. The numbers you want to look at are you Offensive DS, you're not going to be hit in guarded, and if you are... you messed up, reroll.

So let's recap:
24 ranks of EMC is a MUST esp if you only 1x HP(for leeching purposes.
CS Wizards generally only come in a "specialized" variety. the 415/409 wizard just ain't what it used to be. The most effective CS wizards today have at least 50 ranks of fire lore and use Immolation. Once again mana intensive blah blah blah get those 24 ranks EMC, overtrain in your 500's to have a godly CS you'll be all set.
3x spells is fun, not neccessary, you can skip out on some here or there. For me it's a matter of pride. If you see Plo at level 76 you'll better bet your ass he has 76 ranks in each circle. But that's me.
Shield/Weapon Skill users: Go the brawling route. Fu is an alternate attack method that doesn't use the same AS vs DS formula, and is actually a viable attack up through at least wind wraiths. It will give you the ability to kick the shit out of anti-magic critters at the very UPPER TIER (vvrael/constructs) and kicking in 1 second is fun.
Big Weapon user(Poles/2HW etc): See Anticor, he swings his Godendag and sacrifices some other stuff for it. IMO he's nuts, I'd rather have the spells.
Bow Users: This bastard form evolved when during a time in GS4 Beta people who singled in ranged actually had the HIGHEST ds in all stances. Since then, Warden nerfed it, but nonetheless some people fell in love with it since then(the whole firing in 1 second idea... etc w/o typical bolt costs) and it's slightly more viable then any other weapon type because you get to deal with Bolt DS, and a typically higher AS(due to dex bonus) I still think it's dumb, but that's just me.

Edited to Add: If you don't train in MIU and AS, I hope you don't intend on enchanting ever. At the minimum, I'd get 100 ranks in each.


Hope this sheds some insight.

[Edited on 3-5-2005 by Theyesman]

[Askip]

<< wouldn't it make sense to train in spells to maximize CS in the 400s circle? >>

Possibly. However, unless you are way overhunting, CS is not at problem. Also, I am not using 415 as a killer - it's a setup spell. The 15 mana precludes using it all the time. I do use it as a killer if I am not fried when out of mana - I'll wrack and use only 415 because of the AS drop.

There is a bell curve in the CS adder that drops severely after your current level, the extra spells do not seem worth the TPs. I keep 9xx at level for enchanting and alternate 4xx and 5xx spells, getting the third spell per level when TPs are available.

<< Why are you going OHE? >>

I am guessing he does not plan to swing the blade, just use it for the DS?

:D

[TheRoseLady]

Originally posted by Parkbandit
God.. that made me almost wish I was still playing gemstone. Wizard with NO perception ranks.

You mean it REALLY made you want to play and so much so that you will be reactivating your accounts. :yes:

:missu:

[Edited on 3-5-2005 by TheRoseLady]

[AnticorRifling]

Anticor (at level 60), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 130 35
Combat Maneuvers...................| 162 62
Polearm Weapons....................| 162 62
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 150 50
Magic Item Use.....................| 150 50
Spell Aiming.......................| 224 124
Harness Power......................| 159 59
Elemental Mana Control.............| 90 20
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 120 30
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 105 25

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 31

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 60

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 31

[Valthissa]

Valthissa (at level 76), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 10 2
Shield Use.........................| 178 78
Edged Weapons......................| 178 78
Physical Fitness...................| 108 26
Arcane Symbols.....................| 178 78
Magic Item Use.....................| 189 89
Spell Aiming.......................| 256 156
Harness Power......................| 180 80
Elemental Mana Control.............| 160 60
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 90 20
Swimming...........................| 82 18
Trading............................| 140 40

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 70

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 74

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 58
Training Points: 26 Phy 0 Mnt (1132 Phy converted to Mnt)

Name: Valthissa Race: Giant Profession: Wizard (shown as: Archwizard)
Gender: Female Age: 42 Expr: 5034501 Level: 76
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 75 (27) ... 75 (27)
Constitution (CON): 63 (16) ... 63 (16)
Dexterity (DEX): 95 (17) ... 95 (17)
Agility (AGI): 95 (17) ... 95 (17)
Discipline (DIS): 94 (22) ... 94 (22)
Aura (AUR): 100 (20) ... 105 (22)
Logic (LOG): 100 (20) ... 105 (22)
Intuition (INT): 96 (23) ... 96 (23)
Wisdom (WIS): 98 (24) ... 98 (24)
Influence (INF): 95 (27) ... 95 (27)
Mana: 249 Silver: 0

Maximum Health Points: 217

Hunts the tower, can't be hit in offensive, stunned, lying down

uses her weapon to dispatch the Dhu Goleras and Moulis after they are stunned and prone - more to save mana than as a primary hunting tactic.

As a halfling, you won't have the AS to use your weapon but you will enjoy the DS.

I wish lores were worth the TP's and I wish runestaves were better mechnically than sword/board as Valth has always been heavily trained in spells.

my advice is don't skimp on EMC and don't worry about your CS. Learn to hunt with your bolts and then you can decide if you like using 415 as a setup spell.

oh - try some 901 or 903 rapid fire hunting too - nothing quite like it.

C/Valth

[Ryenn]

It's a shame he is a halfling, as giants are by far the best race, regardless of profession.

[Snapp]

Originally posted by Valthissa
my advice is don't skimp on EMC and don't worry about your CS. Learn to hunt with your bolts and then you can decide if you like using 415 as a setup spell.

Agreed... mainly because your CS will pretty much stink because you're a halfling.

[TheRoseLady]

Just for another viewpoint, here's my wizard. She is 100% pure caster. I haven't really considered the whole triple spells things:

Name: <> Race: Dark Elf Profession: Wizard (shown as: Enchantress)
Gender: Female Age: 2621 Expr: 3417451 Level: 59
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 95 (22) ... 95 (22)
Constitution (CON): 94 (17) ... 93 (16)
Dexterity (DEX): 92 (31) ... 92 (31)
Agility (AGI): 89 (24) ... 89 (24)
Discipline (DIS): 91 (10) ... 91 (10)
Aura (AUR): 95 (32) ... 100 (35)
Logic (LOG): 93 (21) ... 98 (24)
Intuition (INT): 75 (17) ... 75 (17)
Wisdom (WIS): 87 (23) ... 87 (23)
Influence (INF): 59 (-1) ... 59 (-1)
Mana: 257 Silver: 0

<> (at level 59), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 10 2
Physical Fitness...................| 102 24
Arcane Symbols.....................| 220 120
Magic Item Use.....................| 220 120
Spell Aiming.......................| 222 122
Harness Power......................| 221 121
Elemental Mana Control.............| 120 30
Elemental Lore - Air...............| 90 20
Elemental Lore - Earth.............| 90 20
Elemental Lore - Fire..............| 90 20
Perception.........................| 120 30
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 70 15

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 48

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 48

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 47
Training Points: 40 Phy 0 Mnt (2104 Phy converted to Mnt)
(Use SKILLS BASE to display unmodified ranks and goals)

She uses a runestaff and does just fine. I like being doubled in the "magic skills" and realize that I could have less, but more spells - perhaps in the future.

[Mini-Spir]

I like your lore choices, I'd be curious to know the difference in your disk and a normal disk. And also the STR bonus you get from 509. An show us a boil or 519 while you're at it.

[TheRoseLady]

My disk holds 9 at this point. According to Tsoran's spreadsheet my 509 is +18 to AS. I never swing, so didn't have a clue.

These are hits on critters that are about 15 levels below me. I'll paste some from like level, when I get back into the temple.

A dreadnought raptor swoops down from high overhead!
A dreadnought raptor tries to impale you on its beak!
You evade the attack!
>prep 519
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Immolation...
Your spell is ready.
>cast rap
You gesture at a dreadnought raptor.
CS: +288 - TD: +162 + CvA: +25 + d100: +99 == +250
Warding failed!
Wisps of black smoke swirl around a dreadnought raptor and it bursts into flame!
... 45 points of damage!
Several fingers consumed from left hand. The rest are unusable.
The dreadnought raptor screeches loudly as it crashes to the ground and cradles its mangled left claw!
The dreadnought raptor is stunned!
... 50 points of damage!
A large patch of flesh is seared off a dreadnought raptor's back.

The flames around a dreadnought raptor continue to burn!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor flare up violently...
... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.

The flames around a dreadnought raptor continue to burn!
>
A mastodonic leopard prowls in!
>
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor flare up violently...
... 20 points of damage!
Burst of flames to right arm burns skin bright red.

The flames around a dreadnought raptor continue to burn!
>
A dreadnought raptor spreads its wings and leaps into the air!
>
A dreadnought raptor falls to the ground and rolls, trying to smother the flames that surround it.
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor continue to burn.
>
A mastodonic leopard tries to bite you!
AS: +263 vs DS: +386 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +91 = +3
A clean miss.
>
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor flare up violently...
... 25 points of damage!
Burst of flames char chest a crispy black.
The dreadnought raptor is stunned!

The flames around a dreadnought raptor continue to burn!
>
A dreadnought raptor rolls around on the ground, trying to smother the flames that surround it.
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor continue to burn.
>
A mastodonic leopard claws at you!
You parry the attack with your runestaff!
>
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor flare up violently...
... 20 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left arm burns skin bright red.

The flames around a dreadnought raptor continue to burn!
>
You feel at full magical power again.
>
A dreadnought raptor rolls around on the ground, trying to smother the flames that surround it.
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor continue to burn.
>prep 917
Your hands glow with power as you invoke the phrase for Boil Earth...
Your spell is ready.
>
A mastodonic leopard tries to bite you!
You evade the attack!
>cast leop
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor flare up violently...
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to right arm. That hurts a bit.

The flames around a dreadnought raptor continue to burn!
>
You gesture at a mastodonic leopard.
The ground beneath a mastodonic leopard begins to boil violently!
Fiery debris explodes from the ground!
... 20 points of damage!
Brushing blow to left hand.
... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to right arm. That hurts a bit.
A mastodonic leopard falls to the ground.
... 15 points of damage!
Minor burns to chest. That hurts a bit.
... 20 points of damage!
Burst of flames to chest toasts skin nicely.
The ground then quickly cools.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
A dreadnought raptor rolls around on the ground, trying to smother the flames that surround it.
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor continue to burn.
>
A mastodonic leopard roars loudly as she stands up!
>
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor flare up violently...
... 5 points of damage!
Minor burns to left leg. That hurts a bit.

The flames around a dreadnought raptor continue to burn!
>prep 519
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Immolation...
Your spell is ready.
>cast leop
A dreadnought raptor rolls around on the ground, trying to smother the flames that surround it.
The flames surrounding a dreadnought raptor quickly die down.
>
You gesture at a mastodonic leopard.
CS: +288 - TD: +158 + CvA: +25 + d100: +18 == +173
Warding failed!
Wisps of black smoke swirl around a mastodonic leopard and she bursts into flame!
... 35 points of damage!
Back bursts into a spectacular display of flames. Bet it hurts too.
The mastodonic leopard is stunned!
... 30 points of damage!
Flames engulf head searing hair and scalp. Sickening!

The flames around a mastodonic leopard continue to burn!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
The flames surrounding a mastodonic leopard flare up violently...
... 25 points of damage!
Burst of flames to left leg blackens kneecap.

The flames around a mastodonic leopard continue to burn!
>
A dreadnought raptor struggles to rise but fails in the attempt.
>
The flames surrounding a mastodonic leopard flare up violently...
... 20 points of damage!
Burst of flames to back toasts skin nicely.

The flames around a mastodonic leopard continue to burn!
>
A dreadnought raptor struggles to rise but fails in the attempt.
>
A mastodonic leopard falls to the ground and rolls, trying to smother the flames that surround it.

[Mini-Spir]

your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Shield Use.........................| 141 41
Brawling...........................| 141 41
Physical Fitness...................| 105 25
Arcane Symbols.....................| 141 41
Magic Item Use.....................| 141 41
Spell Aiming.......................| 186 86
Harness Power......................| 143 43
Elemental Mana Control.............| 142 42
Climbing...........................| 93 21
Swimming...........................| 5 1

Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 41

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 41

Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 23

Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 100 (10) ... 100 (10)
Constitution (CON): 58 (14) ... 58 (14)
Dexterity (DEX): 100 (40) ... 100 (40)
Agility (AGI): 58 (14) ... 58 (14)
Discipline (DIS): 98 (19) ... 98 (19)
Aura (AUR): 98 (19) ... 98 (19)
Logic (LOG): 100 (30) ... 100 (30)
Intuition (INT): 61 (15) ... 61 (15)
Wisdom (WIS): 83 (16) ... 83 (16)
Influence (INF): 68 (4) ... 68 (4)

[Theyesman]

I'd drop a spell rank or two to get up 10 100 ranks of MIU and AS. Just for enchanting purposes.