Enchanting a sigil staff

[malmuddy]

There is someone selling a sigil staff in the high end folder that mentioned enchanting these things. As I didn't want to hijack the sale thread, I thought I'd post it here.

As far enchanting these sigil staves go, I have enchanted one of the 4x ones up to 5x, and currently working that one towards 6x. I've experienced tougher than expected pours, and actually failed a pour on I think the 4th enchant of getting it to 5x. Final enchant went fine, and I've always had the best possible success indicator messages up to this point. This is with a well post-capped wizard with all applicable enchanting stats/factors maxed (no enhancives) in a house workshop. I think I'm on the 2nd step of the 6x enchant, and I've noticed it's possible to fail the pours, as the modifiers are only maybe 80 or so (I don't log). Anyone else noticing these being harder to enchant than you might expect? Also, no certificates have been applied to this, it is straight off the shelf.

[drumpel]

Same goes when making pours on flaring items.

The difficulty to successfully pour goes up as the enchant level does. Like you, I don't have any logs, but it certainly was noticeable when my wizard (level 58 at the time) had his MIU & AS at 1x - he had about a 10% chance to fail pre-temper pours on 4x steps for enchanting on a couple flaring weapons he was working on. I dumped a handful of TPs to bring up his MIU/AS to around 1.25x and it brought him above the threshold to fail a flaring pre-temper pour.

My wizard, at the same time working on the 4x flaring weapons, was taking a weapon with LCW on it to 6x and he had no issues with pours on that item, but the flaring pre-temper pours were much more difficult.

All the extra stuff over a plain weapon/armor/shield can really crank up the difficulty with not only making a successful cast, but with making a successful pour.

[horibu]

You state you are maxed in all enchanting stats/factors minus enhancives and in a house workshop? What is your Wiz ranks? And I take it you're 2x MIU/AS/EMC, perfect stats for your race? Besides that, you did have a familiar present and had no encumbrance? What was the base material of the runestaff in question as I know there were several to choose from.

Btw, you can run ;dechanter bonus
To get your total enchant and pour bonus #. For Tysong I'm at:
Enchant - Your Bonus: 758 + Material Difficulty + Enchant Penalty + Other Penalties + 1d100 roll -- This must result in >=101 to succeed.
Pour - Your Bonus: 389 + Potion Bonus - Item Enchant Bonus + Encumbrance Penalty + Armor Penalty -- This must result in >=101 to succeed.

Materials available with enchant modifier
0 ironwood
-75 witchwood
0 orase
0 faewood
-10 glowbark
+15 fireleaf

[adred]

Theres an inherent 95 bonus max on tempering... (anything under a roll of 5.. or is it 6? Is a fumble) they are indeed harder to enchant than other items not counting material modifiers.

[malmuddy]

Just to throw some numbers on this:
My dechanter bonus for pours came up as 379
For the third pour of a 6x enchant on an orase sigil staff, it went like this: 1d100: 45 + Modifiers: 77 == 122
All done in a house workshop with ideal conditions.

The good news is that the casts have all been the "unless horribly unlucky" message up to this point. So the casts have been no problem, but I've got a ~25% chance to fail the pour.

[adred]

Just to throw some numbers on this:
My dechanter bonus for pours came up as 379
For the third pour of a 6x enchant on an orase sigil staff, it went like this: 1d100: 45 + Modifiers: 77 == 122
All done in a house workshop with ideal conditions.

The good news is that the casts have all been the "unless horribly unlucky" message up to this point. So the casts have been no problem, but I've got a ~25% chance to fail the pour.

Is this ensorcell yet?

[malmuddy]

No ensorcell at this point. Its straight off-the shelf with no upgrades or additional spell slots. Only the enchant to 5x and going to 6x.

[Riltus]

Just to throw some numbers on this:
My dechanter bonus for pours came up as 379
For the third pour of a 6x enchant on an orase sigil staff, it went like this: 1d100: 45 + Modifiers: 77 == 122
All done in a house workshop with ideal conditions.

The good news is that the casts have all been the "unless horribly unlucky" message up to this point. So the casts have been no problem, but I've got a ~25% chance to fail the pour.


MIU skill + LOG bonus + INT bonus + trunc(AUR bonus + WIS bonus)/2 + Potion Bonus/Penalty - Item enchant bonus - Encumbrance Penalty - Armor Penalty

The encumbrance penalty is -1 for each 1% of encumbered body weight.
The armor penalty is -20 for each second of untrained RT adder.

What are your numbers for these and what potion are you using?

MIU skill: ?
LOG bonus: ?
INT bonus: ?
AUR bonus: ?
WIS bonus: ?
Potion: ?

The location of the pour, having a familiar present and the item's material have zero effect on the outcome. You don't receive a bonus when pouring in a workshop.

As an example:

MIU skill: 220 (120 ranks)
LOG: 25
INT: 25
AUR: 25
WIS: 25
Potion: Ayveneh (-200 penalty)
Enchant bonus: +25 (enchant bonus is subtracted in formula)

Modifiers = 220 MIU skill + 25 LOG + 25 INT + 50/2 (AUR+WIS)/2) - 200 potion penalty - 25 item enchant = 70 = 70% success rate

When the Modifiers = 100 you cannot fail the pour since the minimum d100 roll is +1 resulting in an endroll total minimum of +101...a success!

Mark

[Riltus]

Theres an inherent 95 bonus max on tempering... (anything under a roll of 5.. or is it 6? Is a fumble) they are indeed harder to enchant than other items not counting material modifiers.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. There are no fumbles when pouring a potion or enchanting an item except the random 3% failure on the final cast of a project. An enchant or a potion pour will always be successful with a +101 Endroll regardless of the d100 outcome.

Mark

[malmuddy]

My pertinent info for this pour:

MIU skill: 302
LOG bonus: 25
INT bonus: 25
AUR bonus: 30
WIS bonus: 25
Potion: dirtokh

In looking at the formula regarding encumbrance, does how much you carry make a difference? I've always assumed that if you are getting the "you are not encumbered enough to notice" message it was as good as it can get. But I carry a ton of stuff, and keep encumbrance down using 520 air aspect with a lot of air lore. If I pour carrying less stuff, will my modifier increase?

[Riltus]

My pertinent info for this pour:

MIU skill: 302
LOG bonus: 25
INT bonus: 25
AUR bonus: 30
WIS bonus: 25
Potion: dirtokh

In looking at the formula regarding encumbrance, does how much you carry make a difference? I've always assumed that if you are getting the "you are not encumbered enough to notice" message it was as good as it can get. But I carry a ton of stuff, and keep encumbrance down using 520 air aspect with a lot of air lore. If I pour carrying less stuff, will my modifier increase?

The encumbrance penalty for tempering is -1 point for each 1% encumbered body weight. When enchanting, the penalty doubles to -2 pts per 1% encumbered body weight. There is no encumbrance penalty if you receive the message ...not encumbered enough to notice, regardless of how much you are carrying.

Ordinarily, the increased tempering penalty for special items is an intrinsic property of the required pre-temper potion and not attached to the item itself. The sigil staff appears to be an exception to this since it has unique properties but doesn't require a pre-temper potion. For example, an ayveneh potion has a pour penalty of -200 regardless of the item it is being poured on. Pouring ayveneh on a plain 0x dagger will have an increased pour difficulty of -200. Rather than requiring a special pre-temper potion the PTB have apparently added an arbitrary penalty to the sigil staff itself. This is the first time I've heard of this. Unless its a bug. If not then the item's tempering penalty is 50% higher than the pre-temper ayveneh and eoveneh potions.

The numbers.

If this was a plain +25 orase runestaff your modifiers with a dirtokh potion would be:

Skill: 302
Stats: 77
Dirtokh potion bonus: +25
Item enchant penalty: -25
____________________
Total = 379 which matches your dechanter bonus

With the sigil staff your modifiers were 77. Therefore the sigil staff penalty is 302 (379 - 77). Is it just a coincidence that the sigil staff penalty exactly matches your MIU skill or is there possibly a bug when tempering these? You may want to check with a GM. Thankfully a failed pour isn't too penal since it is only one dirtokh dose.

Mark