What loyalty do you owe to your company?

[Jorddyn]

I've been with my current company for just about two years. I was originally hired for a position that I was not qualified for on paper, but the CFO liked me. Since that time, I've earned nothing but glowing reviews, but my salary is still well under what I should be earning.

My boss and his boss (the CFO) are both wonderful to work for. They let me do my job, don't hover over me, and rarely question decisions I make. I've been given a "lateral promotion" within the company where I will take over the other position as soon as mine is filled. They've been trying to fill mine for at least three months.

Over the past several months, we've had a team of about a dozen people from my company and several consultants working on a reimplementation of our inventory and accounting system. The team lead (a partner in her firm) has expressed to me that her firm would be happy to interview me for a consulting position. She mentioned it to me, I did not bring it up. I would love to do it.

My problem is ethical. Is it alright to interview with a company with which your company does business? If I do decide to interview, should I inform my boss of my decision before I interview, or not until the job is offered to me? If I do accept the position, should I allow them enough time to find a replacement, or simply give 2 weeks notice (keeping in mind that it has taken months to find my replacement)?

This may turn out to be a moot point if the team lead was not serious in her offer to interview, but I do hope she was. What do you all think?

Jorddyn

[Back]

This is capatalism baby. There is no room for selflessness. Look out for numero uno.

[DeV]

I wouldn't hesitate especially if I knew I was being underpaid and there wasn't much I could do about it. Go for it Jorddyn.

[AnticorRifling]

Unless your company sucks like mine and makes you sign a noncompete agreement then going for it. Don't worry though it seems Donald Duck signed my paperwork....:cool:

[Snapp]

Go for it! And give two weeks. Honestly, what happens to your old job is none of your concern. You'd be doing your part by giving notice.

[GSTamral]

There are 5 distinct things you must weigh before deciding:

1) What is your current job security?
2) What do you feel your job security will be at the new place?
3) How much additional money will you be making?
4) What are the prospects of moving up in either company? Does one have a significant advantage over another?
5) Is this your best short term or long term solution, or do you think you can find even better?

[Soulpieced]

What Backlash said is scarily pretty much exactly what my dad told me. You owe your company absolute zero, and look out for number one. If you have an opportunity to advance, and the benefits outweigh the negatives, do it.

[Mistomeer]

I don't think it's a question of ethics. I've been offered unsolicited jobs from companies we do business with twice in the past six months. I've turned them down, because I'm happy and my schedule works out well with school, but when I'm ready to go, I'm sure I'll go work for someone we do business with or get the job through a current business contact.

[Neildo]

Always do what's in your best interest when it comes to work. You own nothing to your company. You simply do work for them and they pay you, that's it. There's no other relationship there. To think they have some special feeling towards you is just something to allow them to keep taking advantage of you. It's all about money to them so the same should apply to yourself to them. They won't shed a tear when you're gone so don't hesitate to leave them in the dust when given the chance at a better opportunity. They'll probably be glad you're gone so they can hire a new person and pay them less than you're making now.

- N

[Tsa`ah]

As we cycle from employer driven markets to employee driven markets, there's always some lingering mentality in transition.

When employers are in control we become thankful for any job with security no matter how badly we're screwed over. In the employee driven markets (which employers hate) we get to be a bit more demanding and not so grateful.

I think you're still feeling thankful, something I would not feel while being underpaid.

While you may like your job, the people, the work, the general atmosphere, you have to consider if all of that is worth the lowball pay. I see it in terms of respect. Respect from an employer can only be summed up on pay day. If people in similar positions are getting more, they have the companies respect. You get a smile and a pat on the head for good work.

I learned that lesson in college while working at a cafe. I loved that job. Free coffee, steady flow of women, good music, free coffee, free food, free coffee, I liked my co-workers, and I got free food ... and coffee on or off the clock. I received 10 an hour because I would open the store in the morning before classes and run it until the owner came in, then I would work a 5-6 hour schedule after classes, and the owner and I would take turns closing down the store through the week. After about 6 months, the owner got tired of closing down the store so he "promoted" one of the other employees and I train her. A few months later I receive another pay raise (another dollar) to do payroll. At that point I found out that the girl I trained to close was getting paid 3 dollars an hour more than me to do less than me.

Had I not found out that another employee was getting paid more for doing less; chances are I never would have complained. It's more of the blow one feels when finding out they aren't respected as well as they though (pay). You probably felt the same thing when you found out you're underpaid for your position.

It boils down to respect. I learned that you can be treated well (to your face) by an employer and you may even like your employer ... that doesn't always equate respect from the employer.

[Apotheosis]

I'd see first if I could gain a raise in the company that I worked at.

There's nothing wrong with approaching your bosses about that, as long as you have a nice case to present. If they can offer something you'll accept fine, if not, it'll be awkward and you can generally get a feel for where you are headed in that company.

At the same time, see where this other potential lead may take you. Get to a point where someone with that other company says, yes, we'll hire you, here's what we can offer.

Do the pro/con thing, if it works in your favor to leave, then do it.

Vendors always hire people from companies they do business with and vice versa. It happens all the time.

[Parkbandit]

You like your job and you like the 2 people you report to. They believe you are doing a great job for them.

My advice is to go talk to them. If you are underpaid.. why not just ask for a raise? Let them know how much you enjoy working for them, but that you have been getting other offers and wish to remain where you are.

I would take less pay if I really loved my job. Hating your job sucks.. no matter how much money they pay you.

[Jazuela]

You definitely need to look out for number one..

I agree with most of the sentiments posted here so far. You could also try using this other job offer as leverage..

Get an interview, and if a firm, solid offer is given to you, *and* you feel you would enjoy the new job, go back to your current employer. Let him know there's an offer on the table. Let him know you like working where you are now (since you do - always be up front about this stuff or it'll bite you in the ass later).

Ask your boss if he wants to keep you there, and if so, is he prepared to agree to bring your salary up to what you feel the job is worth. If he is, stay put, enjoy the raise and the job you already have and like doing.

If he isn't, give him at least 2 weeks notice - ask your new employer if there's a rush. If not, give your boss more than 2 weeks notice if you feel that's needed to replace you.

No, you don't owe more than 2 weeks to your current employer. But it's a good idea not to burn your bridges, because at some point you might want to go back to him for a letter of recommendation. The more flexible you are with an exit interview, the more likely he's going to give you that letter.

In a sense, you're doing it for you, first and foremost. In some jobs it doesn't really matter - but in a position where you have authority and respect of your employers, it's always a good thing to leave on the absolute most positive note you can.

[Soulpieced]

I think the best course of action would be to follow some of what Jazuela said. Don't tell (your current company) anything until after you've already got a solid offer from somewhere. You march into your bosses office and say straight up I want a raise, and I have another offer from XXX company for more money.

[Jazuela]

But march gently and with a smile...I've lost jobs because I didn't do that, and got raises because I did. If you let your boss know that you LIKE your current employment, that you WANT to stay..but that you simply want more money and this other place says you're worth it...

He's more likely to say "Ya know what? You're right, and we have enough funds in the payroll to give you "x" increase effective (whenever)"

If you go in there making demands and using the other offer as a threat, instead of as leverage, your boss might say "Eh - you can be replaced. Don't let the door hit you on the way out."

[Wezas]

Here's what I did in the situation (not saying you should do this, just trying to add to the discussion):

I was temping at a place that put up high rise condos. I was hired for data entry but ended up being their tech guy.

I got a call from the employment agency saying there's a permanent position at another firm (the office I work in now). I interview, they love me, they offer me X amount of dollars.

I go back to my current boss - tell him that I have an offer to join another firm at a substantial pay raise. Then he starts throwing salary numbers at me.

Your situation is a bit different because you've been at your job longer, and it's permanent.

(I ended up taking the new job even though my boss offered me 3k more to work for him. He was an arrogant man who constantly yelled/screamed at my supervisor.)

[Gan]

My question to you is if you were hired for a job you weren't qualified for, how can you feel that you are underpaid? Or has enough time passed where you have established enough experience to be marketable for other companies in a 'like' position.

Things I've learned while working for different companys and different people.

1. A good boss is worth about the same as an extra 10k a year. I'd rather make less working for someone who's competent and gives me respect than make 10k more and work for an idiot whom I have no chance of getting rid of. Your threshold might be different depending on your utility, I chose 10k because I turned down a position making more once because I knew the reputation of the person I'd be working for and knew that I"d be miserable.

2. Loyalty to employers is about as equal to their loyalty to you. Remember that you are probably employed 'at will' and could be released any time, and vice versa you can fire your employer any time as well. Its imperative that you look out for yourself first, because in business you evaluate your position just the same as they evaluate theirs with regards to your value to the company.

3. Constantly evaluate your current 'status' and see if it matches your own personal short, medium, and long term goals. If it doesnt then you shouldnt waste time in rectifying that. If it means change of employers to do so then do it, do it, do it... if it means a lateral to a position with a better 'ladder' moving to where you want to be then do that. Just dont look up one day and realize that you've missed your goal/timeline because you were too busy doing other things.

Bottom line, you need to make sure your goals are being met, because its not always equilateral if the company you're working for is meeting its goals.

Good luck in your decision.

Gan-

[Tsa`ah]

Originally posted by Ganalon
My question to you is if you were hired for a job you weren't qualified for, how can you feel that you are underpaid? Or has enough time passed where you have established enough experience to be marketable for other companies in a 'like' position.

I would say a few years, as posted, is adequate experience for her to recieve the pay comisserate of her position.

Other than that, I agree.

[Wezas]

Originally posted by Tsa`ah
I would say a few years, as posted, is adequate experience for her to recieve the pay comisserate of her position.


I agree. I have seen a few people who ask for a position, but are unqualified. When management can't find a fitting replacement, they give the job to the person. That person does, and excels, at the job. They are paid accordingly.

[Gan]

The only reason why I asked is because I was once under-hired once where I wasnt quite qualified for the job. Once I was on board I realized that I was paid well below the midpoint which pissed me off. When I approached my boss about it he explained the pay was comiserate of my experience and as time progressed I would move up in salary.

Only thing was my salary increases barely met the increase in inflation.... so after a few years of doing the job well I put out my feelers and got a better paying job comiserate with my experience.

[xtc]

I have done a lot of consulting for companies helping them restructuring their finance departments. Sometimes this results in new positions being created. In these cases I am occasionally involved in the hiring of these new employees.

I think Tamral has raised some excellent points. I would like to add a few more.

1. There is nothing immoral about interviewing with this consulting firm. However as this firm has a relationship with your firm I would ask myself if I was ready to leave before agreeing to interview with them.

2. Do you work for a sole proprietorship or a small partnership or a large corporation? Small firms take interviewing elsewhere personally and a sign of betrayal.

3 What relationship does this consulting firm have with your employer? If you decide to interview with them, I would tell them that it must remain absolutely confidential and you would prefer a minimum amount of people know about it.

4. If they decide not to hire you or you decide not to take the position, do you have confidence that the consulting firm at some point won't inform your employer?

5. Under no circumstances would I tell my Boss that I was interviewing elsewhere. I would only tell him/her/them AFTER I accepted a new position.

6. I wouldn't make my decision on money but on the position, the company and the people.

7. Try to be flexible with notice when resigning and allow them some time to find a replacement. This should be measured in weeks not months. The consulting firm should be flexible as your employer is their client. It is never good to burn your bridges they will be a reference for years to come.