Things we wish Simutronics would fix (but they probably won't)

[Stumplicker]

Continued from here because I realized we had hijacked some poor guy's finished sales thread.

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?117883-1206-jackpot&p=2063649#post2063649


I don't have much else to say but I'll get the ball rolling:

It's laughable that the only meaningful non-microtransaction development being done is being done to fix a system that's been broken for more than a decade (player shops), by a simutronics employee doing it in his spare time. And I'm not convinced they won't be adding a bunch of microtransaction crap to that system when it's done (They have repeatedly refused to state such).

[Taernath]

A little while ago I divested myself from GS and only play when they have free months going. I still love the game, but I can't ignore the direction it's been heading the last few years.

[Androidpk]

I'd like golvern to get some loving.

[Aluvius]

Yeah, metals in general could use some mechanical implementation. Also, sanctification should be opened up to monks (and maybe Voln GM's to a more limited extent).

[Gelston]

Yeah, metals in general could use some mechanical implementation. Also, sanctification should be opened up to monks (and maybe Voln GM's to a more limited extent).

Monks aren't particularly holy though. The religious monks you are thinking about from monasteries and stuff are clerics.

[Elvenlady]

A little while ago I divested myself from GS and only play when they have free months going. I still love the game, but I can't ignore the direction it's been heading the last few years.

:yeahthat: except I don’t play at all anymore, I just continue to publish the occasional Elanthian Vogue because it reminds me of the fun aspects of GS that don’t involve microtransactions. The poorly executed business model and appalling customer service with little regard given to feedback - unless it immediately impacts on their profit margins - just frustrated me so much that I took the only course of action left and cancelled my subscriptions. I seriously doubt they care but I feel better about it!

[drauz]

This will probably be my last EG, to many unlocks offered as services for items that don't need to have unlocks to begin with. Not enough GALD.

[Methais]

:( I didn’t realize this was your reason for leaving!

And people need to realize more how slot machine events affect people who straight up pay their sub, don’t sell silvers for cash, and just play the game how any normal online game is played. I think more and more “normal” players will quit.

Wyrom should’ve taken the advice of so many players and just left EG alone, you had your Dusk, Dusk Dig, Delirium, etc. just leave this marquee yearly event old school ticketed. But that greed man...

Then again if there is a single player dropping $1000+ a month on the game, how many Rohese’s is he worth monetarily? Think about how people like Rohese enriches the gaming experience above and beyond that dude that wants his 67x enchant GM killing dagger. Wyrom probably knows.

Simu has never given a shit about how anything they do affects things long term. They've always been focused on the immediate short term and always will be. Which is why they're too cheap to advertise, because if it doesn't immediately generate massive profits, then they see it as an expense instead of an investment.

[Hymore246]

This will probably be my last EG, to many unlocks offered as services for items that don't need to have unlocks to begin with. Not enough GALD.

Looks like nothing has changed from last year. I quit playing back in January partly because of how terrible EG 2017 was with GALD. In 2015 and 2016, I was able to get 20+ GALD. In 2017, I got 5. Not only was less GALD offered but nearly every merchant would only work on their own items. What the hell is with that? It also didn't help that after doing the math, I would have been better off not going to EG at all and instead just buy the stuff I wanted at the end of the month from PC. The best item I got was a T5 win, a pair of plain 5x UAC gloves. Sold for 50k on PC. EG was a complete waste of time and money.

The other reason and the final straw was that whole $1500 for private property thing in December of last year. I was completely disgusted by simu's greed. What's worse is they made $24,000 from it.

All I want simu to do is stop with the microtransactions. I know it's asking too much to get rid of them completely but the reason I was sticking around here since January was that I was hoping they would plateau and find a good point to stop pushing. They haven't and it's just got worse. The 1206 SK item is the biggest example but adding a carrot on the stick to everything they release is terrible too. 620 resists on metal armor requires a 1/day random world drop makes the new feature worthless. The players just can't have nice things. Well without paying extra for it. The GMs completely ignore any feedback given by players and do nothing but add more pay events to the game.

GS4 has a small community. If everyone put aside their differences, banded together, and refused to go to anymore paid events until simu stopped with the aggressive microtransactions, it would force simu into action. They would close the game. It's clear that they are just letting the game coast until it is not profitable. The game itself has stopped growing and their only interest is draining money from it's existing players.

I've given up at this point. I'll probably hangout till the end of the year to see what BS simu is going to throw out to screw the players at the last moment. I'll probably update the planner one more time before putting this game behind me for good.

[Taernath]

Then again if there is a single player dropping $1000+ a month on the game, how many Rohese’s is he worth monetarily?

They realized they don't have to market their product to their entire customer base, they can just focus on the 10% of customers who buy 80% of their product. It's why they've never cared about advertising. The people who spent thousands-per-festival aren't about to leave.

[Methais]

If Simu would stop being such cheap assholes and hire even just one full time dev, most of these complaints would go away overnight.

[Neveragain]

Have we ever done a boycott as a community? I know this game is like 30+ years old hence why I’m asking. And before we get all “but my game...” I think a couple months walkout by a few hundred accounts will be all the push-back Simu needs to at least roll-back these microtrans/slots events. It’ll be healthier for the game in the long-term and it maybe will be enough to shock them into looking elsewhere for their money, “omg?! what do they want? Bug fixes?! Savants?! Disarm fix?!”

It would have to be advertised a month or so ahead of a set date. Make regular reminders on the PC, on lnet, on the FB group, and on discord. Start group protests in game (this is actually fun, we did it once in RR to get a registrar).

[Taernath]

Have we ever done a boycott as a community? I know this game is like 30+ years old hence why I’m asking. And before we get all “but my game...” I think a couple months walkout by a few hundred accounts will be all the push-back Simu needs to at least roll-back these microtrans/slots events. It’ll be healthier for the game in the long-term and it maybe will be enough to shock them into looking elsewhere for their money, “omg?! what do they want? Bug fixes?! Savants?! Disarm fix?!”

I've said it elsewhere but I don't think you'll find a few hundred who agree that the business practices are an issue let alone be willing to cancel their subs.

[Hymore246]

I've said it elsewhere but I don't think you'll find a few hundred who agree that the business practices are an issue let alone be willing to cancel their subs.

I've always found that amazing. Gemstone 4 has one of the worst pricing models of any online game. $15 a month for a text game is crazy, $40 for premium is even crazier. And that is to say nothing for multi-accounts and the microtransactions. The idea that you can pay $50 to go to a special event and almost never walk away with anything close to worthwhile is absolutely nuts. But people defend it by saying "its an investment" like it's a business transaction instead a fun in-game event. I swear some people forgot how much their money is worth while playing this game and that the game is supposed to be fun.

I've never seen the community come together against simu. Aside from the infighting between everyone, I don't think open communication with simu or the GMs is even possible. The GMs just ignore feedback and do whatever they want. You pretty much have to walk on egg shells on the officials when you say something negative too. People were mad over stuff like 620 or 1206 but you could tell that no one could really express how they felt. I won't call the officials "a safe space" but they sure as hell don't want anything on there but positive press. There is no way to hold the GMs or simu accountable. Only thing you can do is quit. It's really sad that this is the only option.

[Avaia]

This is the last year of feeder-driven games. - Wyrom on 10/25.

The problem boils down to expectations and growth. It's literally a gold rush. Feeders aren't going away, but they won't be the driving force of these events. -Wyrom on 10/26.

I wish that I could believe that these statements are an encouraging signal about the direction they are going to take events, or EG at least. But frankly, I don't. They just make me wonder what the next cash-grab micro transaction model is going to be. Something tells me it will be just as egregious, merely different.

[Gelston]

rofl, people tried a boycott before. Shit didn't happen. You either had people outright refusing to do it, people saying they were going to do it but not doing, etc. The majority of people don't care, they just quit playing without fanfare.

[Astray]

I don't even think they'd give a shit unless it was during some paid event and nobody was attending. And even then I don't think they'd take the hint, those thick headed fucks.

[Gelston]

I don't even think they'd give a shit unless it was during some paid event and nobody was attending. And even then I don't think they'd take the hint, those thick headed fucks.

They'd just make the prizes better. The people that drop big amounts of cash are never going to boycott.

[Astray]

They'd just make the prizes better. The people that drop big amounts of cash are never going to boycott.

Correct.

[Astray]

The problem boils down to expectations and growth. It's literally a gold rush. Feeders aren't going away, but they won't be the driving force of these events. -Wyrom on 10/26.

When are you going to use some of that feeder cash towards growth, Wyrom? It's like watching a guy dumping gasoline on himself and being pissy that someone might be smoking nearby.

What a faggot.

[Methais]

I've always found that amazing. Gemstone 4 has one of the worst pricing models of any online game. $15 a month for a text game is crazy, $40 for premium is even crazier. And that is to say nothing for multi-accounts and the microtransactions. The idea that you can pay $50 to go to a special event and almost never walk away with anything close to worthwhile is absolutely nuts. But people defend it by saying "its an investment" like it's a business transaction instead a fun in-game event. I swear some people forgot how much their money is worth while playing this game and that the game is supposed to be fun.

I've never seen the community come together against simu. Aside from the infighting between everyone, I don't think open communication with simu or the GMs is even possible. The GMs just ignore feedback and do whatever they want. You pretty much have to walk on egg shells on the officials when you say something negative too. People were mad over stuff like 620 or 1206 but you could tell that no one could really express how they felt. I won't call the officials "a safe space" but they sure as hell don't want anything on there but positive press. There is no way to hold the GMs or simu accountable. Only thing you can do is quit. It's really sad that this is the only option.

It is an investment to a lot of people. They go to the event, try to rack up on whatever, then flip it for a profit.

[Hymore246]

It is an investment to a lot of people. They go to the event, try to rack up on whatever, then flip it for a profit.

I'm tempted to blame those people, but I know that happens with everything, video game or not. No, this simu's fault for enabling this sort of thing to such a high degree. Wouldn't be nearly as bad if, for example, it was possible to get a lot of the special gear from these events in the base game. Of course, we all know what would happen. You could get yourself a nice 3x low steel short sword after 10 years of continuous play.

[Gelston]

I'm tempted to blame those people, but I know that happens with everything, video game or not. No, this simu's fault for enabling this sort of thing to such a high degree. Wouldn't be nearly as bad if, for example, it was possible to get a lot of the special gear from these events in the base game. Of course, we all know what would happen. You could get yourself a nice 3x low steel short sword after 10 years of continuous play.

Low steel is naturally 6x, btw.

[Hymore246]

Low steel is naturally 6x, btw.

This version can be called lower steel then! After enough quests, it slowly upgrades to low steel! Quests happen 1/month or you can buy quest orb to speed up the process!

[Neveragain]

This is the last year of feeder-driven games. - Wyrom on 10/25.

The problem boils down to expectations and growth. It's literally a gold rush. Feeders aren't going away, but they won't be the driving force of these events. -Wyrom on 10/26.

I.E. We know legislation is coming and we won't be able to profit when we are forced to meet regulations. It was fun psychologically mind fucking you while it lasted, we love our mentally ill customers.

[HJFudge]

*sneaks in for a quick comment*

A lot of these issues are real issues, and SIMU could indeed do more to combat it. Account binding raffle wins and such would do a lot to help some of the issues, as well as a better system for games/digging...SIMU enables a lot of toxic player behavior, I very much agree.

But a lot of the fault is on the players. Not just the whales. But the people who buy the stuff the merchanteers sell for $$$...or even silver. Watching the cool RP toy get snatched up at a raffle and on lnet/pc for sale for 20-50m silver immediately after is a huge part of the problem. Also the people who then BUY it from them because they REALLY WANT that item. It leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths and seriously makes people want to quit, give up, etc...because they cannot compete with the big $$$ spenders. At the CCF silver event, a GREAT idea by SIMU...in prime at least, most everything went to the people who spend boatloads of USD on silver.

If all the pay events and microtrans disappeared TODAY...a lot of the problems would still exist because the secondary cash market is still a thing. MAing out the wazoo is still a thing. AFK scripting and it being tolerated by a sizeable minority of the community is still a thing.

A boycott is an unworkable idea. We as players really cant change SIMU...but we can change our behavior. Stop tolerating toxic community behavior. Refuse to buy from the merchanteers. Stop buying and selling silver/items in the secondary market. This wont fix everything? But it will fix a lot.

Also, side note: In platinum, a lot of the issues you guys are complaining about either don't exist or are so minor you can entirely ignore them. Yeah, its a bit more expensive, and yeah, theres still issues here and there, but its much, much better of a community in general. But if you are looking to make GS a secondary income source? Yeah you're going to have a bad time.

[Gelston]

*sneaks in for a quick comment*

A lot of these issues are real issues, and SIMU could indeed do more to combat it. Account binding raffle wins and such would do a lot to help some of the issues, as well as a better system for games/digging...SIMU enables a lot of toxic player behavior, I very much agree.

But a lot of the fault is on the players. Not just the whales. But the people who buy the stuff the merchanteers sell for $$$...or even silver. Watching the cool RP toy get snatched up at a raffle and on lnet/pc for sale for 20-50m silver immediately after is a huge part of the problem. Also the people who then BUY it from them because they REALLY WANT that item. It leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths and seriously makes people want to quit, give up, etc...because they cannot compete with the big $$$ spenders. At the CCF silver event, a GREAT idea by SIMU...in prime at least, most everything went to the people who spend boatloads of USD on silver.

If all the pay events and microtrans disappeared TODAY...a lot of the problems would still exist because the secondary cash market is still a thing. MAing out the wazoo is still a thing. AFK scripting and it being tolerated by a sizeable minority of the community is still a thing.

A boycott is an unworkable idea. We as players really cant change SIMU...but we can change our behavior. Stop tolerating toxic community behavior. Refuse to buy from the merchanteers. Stop buying and selling silver/items in the secondary market. This wont fix everything? But it will fix a lot.

Also, side note: In platinum, a lot of the issues you guys are complaining about either don't exist or are so minor you can entirely ignore them. Yeah, its a bit more expensive, and yeah, theres still issues here and there, but its much, much better of a community in general. But if you are looking to make GS a secondary income source? Yeah you're going to have a bad time.

tldr

[kutter]

I have given up trying to 'fix' people. Be it the people at SIMU or the players that immediately put up for sale a very nice item they just won, so they can flip it and buy something from someone that did the same thing. To be honest, it is capitalism in its second purest form, so it is hard for me to argue with it. So I just decided I will get out of the game what I want, and others can get out of it what they want. SIMU managed to fool me two years in a row for EG, good for them. Next year if there is something I want, I will just have someone pick up those items and save my money.

Ironically I am totally OK with Duskruin because it has always been what it is, and I am willing to spend my money to grind out bloodscrip to get a good item or three.

[Astray]

We as players really cant change SIMU...but we can change our behavior.

It's easy to say "stop engaging in this type of behavior" but that behavior stems from legitimate grievances. Ones that have been ignored, mocked and disregarded by staff working under Simutronics. Remember how they behaved when Wizards were voicing their disapproval? I sure do, Wyrom told us in no short answer that receptions "likes this" are why we don't have full-time coders.

[Methais]

*sneaks in for a quick comment*

A lot of these issues are real issues, and SIMU could indeed do more to combat it. Account binding raffle wins and such would do a lot to help some of the issues, as well as a better system for games/digging...SIMU enables a lot of toxic player behavior, I very much agree.

But a lot of the fault is on the players. Not just the whales. But the people who buy the stuff the merchanteers sell for $$$...or even silver. Watching the cool RP toy get snatched up at a raffle and on lnet/pc for sale for 20-50m silver immediately after is a huge part of the problem. Also the people who then BUY it from them because they REALLY WANT that item. It leaves a bad taste in peoples mouths and seriously makes people want to quit, give up, etc...because they cannot compete with the big $$$ spenders. At the CCF silver event, a GREAT idea by SIMU...in prime at least, most everything went to the people who spend boatloads of USD on silver.

If all the pay events and microtrans disappeared TODAY...a lot of the problems would still exist because the secondary cash market is still a thing. MAing out the wazoo is still a thing. AFK scripting and it being tolerated by a sizeable minority of the community is still a thing.

A boycott is an unworkable idea. We as players really cant change SIMU...but we can change our behavior. Stop tolerating toxic community behavior. Refuse to buy from the merchanteers. Stop buying and selling silver/items in the secondary market. This wont fix everything? But it will fix a lot.

Also, side note: In platinum, a lot of the issues you guys are complaining about either don't exist or are so minor you can entirely ignore them. Yeah, its a bit more expensive, and yeah, theres still issues here and there, but its much, much better of a community in general. But if you are looking to make GS a secondary income source? Yeah you're going to have a bad time.

Fun fact: HJFudge is a former Florida paintball state champion

[Taernath]

If all the pay events and microtrans disappeared TODAY...a lot of the problems would still exist because the secondary cash market is still a thing.

The secondary market has been a thing since GS' inception, and for the most part it's relatively benign. Things started to go off the rails when Simu decided they wanted to tap into it by creating alternate currencies which can only be acquired through pay events.

[HJFudge]

Correction: Laser tag state champion :P

[Fortybox]

The problem isn't microtransactions. The problem is the value prop.

The value for EG just wasn't there. I think people would be more happy with micro transactions if it was structured in such a way as to provide a good value and reason for the player.

[Neveragain]

Correction: Laser tag state champion :P

http://31.media.tumblr.com/76b9c22907991047550d7e0e2031577d/tumblr_nxj9kjagn71ufl1nbo1_500.gif

[Murrandii]

I agree with most of the people here when they speak about the business model of SIMU. People need to understand they don't randomly decides those stuff, they got direction from the Direction above them. They were told to act like they do and it's purely objective.

When you analyze their way of handling the game, you get those facts:

Game Dev and maintenance:

1) almost no R&D (no agile team or swat team doing it, only small portions here and there to maintain some cohesion)
2) low ingame supports (i.e. assists can take days)
3) almost no ads (besides some random ones on FB)


That means: lowest maintenance cost possible.

Getting revenue:

4) Wyrom admited it: 1 paid event per 2 months (GMs working on it get a share of the profit. Profit = people buying stuff from the store)
5) High per month subs
6) microtransactions for about everything

That means: highest revenue possible.

Whoever got some business studies or experience know this model is based on SHORT TERMS ONLY. It's like the 2-3 last years of those videostores era. They tried their best to sell asap and to cash out and cut everything else.
As long as the + are more than the -, they will continue. They won't stop. They won't stop, repeat it until you believe it cause it's the damn truth.



As a player, you have 4 options
1) protest and quit

2) protest and play

3) be a tool and pretend everything is all right

4) make some dollars out of it and quit BEFORE you lose too much value when it will fall down.


Be smart, Don't fight the machine, play with it.

[Astray]

"Pay into a system you disagree with for potential profits." Not guaranteed ones, just the potential. It's how we show them we disagree!11!1one

[Hymore246]

I picked option #1. Yay me! Gemstone 4 may not be dying but that business model is going to kill it. They can't keep up this level profit gain without burning everything to the ground.

Also, is Dragon Realms having this sort of problem too? I'm curious if they are trying kill off the text games to focus on their mobile market.

[Taernath]

4) make some dollars out of it and quit BEFORE you lose too much value when it will fall down.

The major difference between Simu and Blockbuster is that Simu has very little overhead and has a very loyal fanbase. Gemstone will continue indefinitely short of another Dragons of Elanthia bomb.

[Astray]

I picked option #1. Yay me! Gemstone 4 may not be dying but that business model is going to kill it. They can't keep up this level profit gain without burning everything to the ground.

Also, is Dragon Realms having this sort of problem too? I'm curious if they are trying kill off the text games to focus on their mobile market.

Last thing I remember seeing of Dragon Realms was someone eating cheese and crying. So... pretty good outlook, all things considered.

[Tgo01]

Also, is Dragon Realms having this sort of problem too? I'm curious if they are trying kill off the text games to focus on their mobile market.

I don't keep up much on DR but at the Simucon before the last the top dog at DR painted a very bleak picture of the state of DR. People think scripters in GS is bad? From the sounds of it almost everyone in DR is just constantly scripting everything with hardly any interaction between players. Also apparently the game is bleeding subscriptions fast, probably because everyone is scripting everything with hardly any interaction between players.

[Taernath]

Last thing I remember seeing of Dragon Realms was someone eating cheese and crying. So... pretty good outlook, all things considered.

I think you're thinking of Silvean in Modus.

[Astray]

I think you're thinking of Silvean in Modus.

Oh, okay. Yeah... that.

[Murrandii]

They are not trying to kill it GS. They are trying to get the most profit in the shortest time possible because it will eventually hit a wall, like every business.

I work as a BA in TI, let's throw an analogy:

You got your milk services like legacy landlines and stuff like that. It has a natural churn (attrition) pointing toward the floor, people leaving to get better stuff.


Key is always to decrease the maintenance and R&D and keep the fees the highest possible until to a point people will call and ask options (in TI, could offer a cellular (but that too is having a churn, we're now into the cloud ways).

If the company is in the stuck market, you can throw bundles to make as if you have a lot of customers (a customer with 4 services is better than 4 customers with 1 service). That artificially keep the legacy services alive longer.


Here, there is no "options" offered by SIMU, no bundles besides some toys here and there to keep the frustration low.

[Methais]

Correction: Laser tag state champion :P

:wtf:

https://i.imgur.com/01pVKIT.gif

[Hymore246]

Gemstone isn’t going away anytime soon though. It’s unique because the kids playing in the 90’s and late 80’s are coming back for nostalgia and whatever and now they’re adults with their own CC’s. It was one of the first MMOs and probably will be one of the last.

Wouldn't the opposite be true in that case? If Gemstone is only using nostalgia to make money, with no effort put into getting new players, and only focusing on short term money making tactics, then the game will eventually crash and burn once they piss off enough of the players. Given how small the player base is, all it would take to tank the game would be for a few of the big spender whales to leave.

God, the more I think about this the more it feels like Gemstone is a mobile game and not an MMO.

[Taernath]

God, the more I think about this the more it feels like Gemstone is a mobile game and not an MMO.

It pretty much is, at this point. Multi-tiered subscriptions, multiple premium currencies, paid events, a cash shop... the only thing it doesn't have is an up-front box fee. Other mobile games wish they could run this kind of operation. I kind of laughed at the uproar over Metal Gear Survive when people found out you had to pay for a second save slot. GS players have been doing that for years, but it's a recurring monthly payment.

[Androidpk]

the only thing it doesn't have is an up-front box fee.

Wait until GS V launches.. :lol:

[Hymore246]

Wait until GS V launches.. :lol:

With a new class planned ...



Gear Knights!

[sellstuff1]

Wyrom's post about the end of feeder-driven games was just after I was banned from Discord for posting memes about unregulated internet gambling. I submitted complaints to the Missouri Gaming Commission and the FTC. If you'd like to de-tangle slot machines from Gemstone, I suggest you do the same.

[Parkbandit]

Wyrom's post about the end of feeder-driven games was just after I was banned from Discord for posting memes about unregulated internet gambling. I submitted complaints to the Missouri Gaming Commission and the FTC. If you'd like to de-tangle slot machines from Gemstone, I suggest you do the same.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTg1AjHrji0Cf1n1t2-BQD2ALBvzFAKHMQNnruwRifCfJf_dZqY

[Amerek]

Wyrom's post about the end of feeder-driven games was just after I was banned from Discord for posting memes about unregulated internet gambling. I submitted complaints to the Missouri Gaming Commission and the FTC. If you'd like to de-tangle slot machines from Gemstone, I suggest you do the same.

I think it had less to do with whatever you think you did and more to do with the fact that they hand-made thousands of items which were 1) almost exhausted due to player demand and 2) caused lots of complaints due to perceived inferior quality (which most were, TBH).

[sellstuff1]

I think it had less to do with whatever you think you did and more to do with the fact that they hand-made thousands of items which were 1) almost exhausted due to player demand and 2) caused lots of complaints due to perceived inferior quality (which most were, TBH).

They were almost exhausted due to player demand because Simu's only been developing for whales for the past twenty years. Whales think they can drop $1k on a gambling event and come out ahead.

Oh, I checked out your playershop and trade list. You're the kind of person that Simu develops for. Thanks for ruining Gemstone btw.

[Parkbandit]

They were almost exhausted due to player demand because Simu's only been developing for whales for the past twenty years. Whales think they can drop $1k on a gambling event and come out ahead.

Oh, I checked out your playershop and trade list. You're the kind of person that Simu develops for. Thanks for ruining Gemstone btw.

Translation: "I'm jealous of what you have. It's not fair."

:cry::cry::cry::cry:

[Astray]

I don't think the Government stepping in and regulating is the answer we're all looking for. That's gonna fucking suck and it's an open invitation to cease or hold all production until something happens. Imagine the legal battle Simu would wage with your cash.

It'd be a kickstarter funded by the players, for the players. Like SimuCon. Only it'll be legal fees for decades.

Wyrom: "We're releasing an event after we hit $50,000. Darn Government regulations!"

[Parkbandit]

Wyrom's post about the end of feeder-driven games was just after I was banned from Discord for posting memes about unregulated internet gambling. I submitted complaints to the Missouri Gaming Commission and the FTC. If you'd like to de-tangle slot machines from Gemstone, I suggest you do the same.

Can you please copy/paste that complain you submitted to the Missouri Gaming Commission and the FTC.. because I think it would be hilarious.

And we deserve to be entertained by this.

[Tgo01]

We should start a new thread "Things that made you cringe today."

But it would just be filled with sellstuff1's posts.

[Candor]

As a player, you have 4 options
1) protest and quit

2) protest and play

3) be a tool and pretend everything is all right

4) make some dollars out of it and quit BEFORE you lose too much value when it will fall down.



....or....brace yourself now....

5) play the game because you enjoy it and stop playing when you no longer enjoy it.

I pick this last option.

[sellstuff1]

I'll be glad to step in and ruin Dreavenings for you if you keep it up, fascist.

[Tgo01]

I'll be glad to step in and ruin Dreavenings for you if you keep it up, fascist.

Oh no! Don't report me to the Missouri Gaming Commission and the FTC too!

[sellstuff1]

Oh no! Don't report me to the Missouri Gaming Commission and the FTC too!

Maybe if you actually knew the laws involving internet gambling you'd agree with me.

Unfortunately you'll just call this out as "fake news" and a "biased source" and give me some bullshit whatboutism in your reply, because you're a robot.

http://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-prelim-title31-chapter53-subchapter4&edition=prelim

[sellstuff1]

I don't think the Government stepping in and regulating is the answer we're all looking for. That's gonna fucking suck and it's an open invitation to cease or hold all production until something happens. Imagine the legal battle Simu would wage with your cash.

It'd be a kickstarter funded by the players, for the players. Like SimuCon. Only it'll be legal fees for decades.

Wyrom: "We're releasing an event after we hit $50,000. Darn Government regulations!"

Is it legal to bet online in Missouri?
State laws consider it a Class C misdemeanor to participate in gambling as a player outside of licensed facilities. Section 527.020 of the Missouri Revised Statutes lays it out plainly:

572.020. 1. A person commits the crime of gambling if he knowingly engages in gambling.

Gambling is a class C misdemeanor unless:
(1) It is committed by a professional player, in which case it is a class D felony; or

(2) The person knowingly engages in gambling with a minor, in which case it is a class B misdemeanor.

A Class C misdemeanor in Missouri results in up to 15 days of jail time. It becomes a more serious Class D felony if you are considered a “professional” gambler with up to four years in jail.

So the players themselves are breaking the law in Missouri by participating in events like DSD and sewers. The major players are committing felonies.

[Alastir]

Is it legal to bet online in Missouri?
State laws consider it a Class C misdemeanor to participate in gambling as a player outside of licensed facilities. Section 527.020 of the Missouri Revised Statutes lays it out plainly:

572.020. 1. A person commits the crime of gambling if he knowingly engages in gambling.

Gambling is a class C misdemeanor unless:
(1) It is committed by a professional player, in which case it is a class D felony; or

(2) The person knowingly engages in gambling with a minor, in which case it is a class B misdemeanor.

A Class C misdemeanor in Missouri results in up to 15 days of jail time. It becomes a more serious Class D felony if you are considered a “professional” gambler with up to four years in jail.

So the players themselves are breaking the law in Missouri by participating in events like DSD and sewers. The major players are committing felonies.


It's not gambling. You always get a prize.

[Neveragain]

It's not gambling. You always get a prize.

Not that I'm in any way agreeing with sellstuff but.....not claiming income to the IRS is a federal offense, even if I don't agree with taxing personal income.

It's also probably not going to do a casino any good to eject a gumball with each pull of a slot machine and then claim it's no longer gambling.

[Gelston]

Not that I'm in any way agreeing with sellstuff but.....not claiming income to the IRS is a federal offense, even if I don't agree with taxing personal income.

It's also probably not going to do a casino any good to eject a gumball with each pull of a slot machine and then claim it's no longer gambling.

You aren't winning cash prizes. You also dont technically own anything in the games, so in reality you are really just giving simu money for the chance to use something.

[Astray]

So the players themselves are breaking the law in Missouri by participating in events like DSD and sewers. The major players are committing felonies.

It'd never fly in a court room because the argument may be made that it's more of a prize machine.

Also, you're pathetic and nobody takes you seriously. So there's that.

[Neveragain]

You aren't winning cash prizes. You also dont technically own anything in the games, so in reality you are really just giving simu money for the chance to use something.

Like I said, I don't agree with sellstuff. That being said, even carnival games are required to meet specific guidelines and are inspected. There's no denying that more states will be pushing for legislation on this stuff and small companies like SIMU will have to find another way to attract consumers. The government tends to not go easy on industries that target minors and people with behavior disorders.

[Methais]

I'll be glad to step in and ruin Dreavenings for you if you keep it up, fascist.

How do you think you would pull this off? Please give us details on more of your stupid ideas so that we may laugh at you some more.

[Pereus]

:yeahthat: except I don’t play at all anymore, I just continue to publish the occasional Elanthian Vogue because it reminds me of the fun aspects of GS that don’t involve microtransactions. The poorly executed business model and appalling customer service with little regard given to feedback - unless it immediately impacts on their profit margins - just frustrated me so much that I took the only course of action left and cancelled my subscriptions. I seriously doubt they care but I feel better about it!

I bailed for the same reasons. Canceled all other accounts, keep my main open for transactions and possibly BS farming for cash if i feel bored. Other than that, game has been ruined steadily over the last few years.

[Leafiara]

Actually put the money GS that makes back into, you know, GS. Hire coders, advertise, that sort of thing.

If this happened, I'm pretty sure almost everything I've ever even briefly complained about would either go away or at least I'd be 100% at peace with it.

[Stumplicker]

Actually put the money GS that makes back into, you know, GS. Hire coders, advertise, that sort of thing.

If this happened, I'm pretty sure almost everything I've ever even briefly complained about would either go away or at least I'd be 100% at peace with it.

Hey. HEY! This thread is for the irate people! Not the nice people! Go back from whence you came! *whipcrack*

[Parkbandit]

Is it legal to bet online in Missouri?
State laws consider it a Class C misdemeanor to participate in gambling as a player outside of licensed facilities. Section 527.020 of the Missouri Revised Statutes lays it out plainly:

572.020. 1. A person commits the crime of gambling if he knowingly engages in gambling.

Gambling is a class C misdemeanor unless:
(1) It is committed by a professional player, in which case it is a class D felony; or

(2) The person knowingly engages in gambling with a minor, in which case it is a class B misdemeanor.

A Class C misdemeanor in Missouri results in up to 15 days of jail time. It becomes a more serious Class D felony if you are considered a “professional” gambler with up to four years in jail.

So the players themselves are breaking the law in Missouri by participating in events like DSD and sewers. The major players are committing felonies.

Still hoping you post your specific complaint to the MGC and the FTC regarding Simutronics.

Come on, I'm sure it's legit.

Just post it.

[Hymore246]

Actually put the money GS that makes back into, you know, GS. Hire coders, advertise, that sort of thing.

If this happened, I'm pretty sure almost everything I've ever even briefly complained about would either go away or at least I'd be 100% at peace with it.

Most of my complaints would go away too. Although, I would still hate their pricing and microtransaction system.


This will never happen exactly for the reason that people continue to play. Wyrom is a “spreadsheet man” he probably has hundreds of excel spreadsheets with all sorts of data thinking it’ll tell him the inner thoughts of his players. Thus, as long as people continue to sub and pay hundreds if not thousands on EG or Dusk, he thinks the game is perfect and WAI.

Furthermore, I’m certain he has already singled out 100 top spending accounts based on SC purchases, # of accounts, whatever. He’s trying to make this game for them as well as you. Money vs. Fun. Money vs. balance. Money vs. Longevity.

To Wyrom’s credit, it’s hard. Also, this is his livelihood. If he fails to squeeze out all that he can from us he loses his paycheck, his insurance, whatever. Wyrom obviously can’t go on “HotGamerBimbos.com” to make ends meet, just judging by his physique. I don’t blame what he’s doing to the game personally. I just hope he has enough foresight, skill, and business acumen to navigate this ship to graze the iceberg and not ram it head-on.

In this regard, Wyrom reminds me of Ghostcrawler from way back when I played World of Warcraft. The community loved to blame him for everything but he was just the community relations guy. He didn't control the entire game, he was just an easy target.

Still, it wouldn't kill Wyrom or the other GMs to talk to the community more, explain things more, or take and use feedback. We might have been able to avoid the nightmare that was the Wizard nerf if that had happened.

[Taernath]

In this regard, Wyrom reminds me of Ghostcrawler from way back when I played World of Warcraft. The community loved to blame him for everything but he was just the community relations guy. He didn't control the entire game, he was just an easy target.

Uh... Ghostcrawler was lead systems designer for WoW, and Wyrom is the Product Manager for GS (and might be the only one currently working for Simu, with no APMs). Both of them have/had immense pull in their jobs.

[Hymore246]

Uh... Ghostcrawler was lead systems designer for WoW, and Wyrom is the Product Manager for GS (and might be the only one currently working for Simu, with no APMs). Both of them have/had immense pull in their jobs.

Hm, you are right. I might have been thinking about Tseric then. That whole thing was a mess. As for Wyrom, I'm sure he has pull but I'm willing to bet that simu is heavily pushing Gemstone to make money and he couldn't stop that if he wanted to. I'm not sure we will ever know who's deciding what on the other side of the game.

[Methais]

Actually put the money GS that makes back into, you know, GS. Hire coders, advertise, that sort of thing.

If this happened, I'm pretty sure almost everything I've ever even briefly complained about would either go away or at least I'd be 100% at peace with it.

Simu's after reading your post:
https://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

[Methais]

Hm, you are right. I might have been thinking about Tseric then. That whole thing was a mess. As for Wyrom, I'm sure he has pull but I'm willing to bet that simu is heavily pushing Gemstone to make money and he couldn't stop that if he wanted to. I'm not sure we will ever know who's deciding what on the other side of the game.

lol Tseric

Back when Blizzard told us via Tseric that more intellect = more mana = more damage while mages were getting completely destroyed on damage meters by everyone because we had no damage increase stats on our gear.

Good times. Reminds me of Estild justifying wizard nerfs because we had Mana Leech.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6gNo4-1r6k

[Taernath]

lol Tseric

Back when Blizzard told us via Tseric that more intellect = more mana = more damage while mages were getting completely destroyed on damage meters by everyone because we had no damage increase stats on our gear.

Good times. Reminds me of Estild justifying wizard nerfs because we had Mana Leech.

Something something BUS SHOCK

[Hymore246]

lol Tseric

Back when Blizzard told us via Tseric that more intellect = more mana = more damage while mages were getting completely destroyed on damage meters by everyone because we had no damage increase stats on our gear.

Good times. Reminds me of Estild justifying wizard nerfs because we had Mana Leech.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6gNo4-1r6k


I was actually a playing shaman as my main class back when everything went down. My favorite thing the shaman community did was creating a post titled FUCK BLIZZARD on the official forums stating that if Blizzard was paying attention the shaman forums or class at all, then someone would delete the post. That post was repeatedly bumped and remained at the top of the official forum for WEEKS before someone finally deleted it. Can't say the shaman community was wrong on that one.

Looking back I really feel sorry for Tseric. He was set up for failure and Blizzard fuck him over royally. I hope the guy found a better job.

[Stumplicker]

I was actually a playing shaman as my main class back when everything went down. My favorite thing the shaman community did was creating a post titled FUCK BLIZZARD on the official forums stating that if Blizzard was paying attention the shaman forums or class at all, then someone would delete the post. That post was repeatedly bumped and remained at the top of the official forum for WEEKS before someone finally deleted it. Can't say the shaman community was wrong on that one.

Looking back I really feel sorry for Tseric. He was set up for failure and Blizzard fuck him over royally. I hope the guy found a better job.

I said it in Vanilla/BC, and I'll say it again! Shamans are just druids whose players never learned to read good or do other stuff good too and accidentally clicked the wrong class at creation.

[Methais]

I was actually a playing shaman as my main class back when everything went down. My favorite thing the shaman community did was creating a post titled FUCK BLIZZARD on the official forums stating that if Blizzard was paying attention the shaman forums or class at all, then someone would delete the post. That post was repeatedly bumped and remained at the top of the official forum for WEEKS before someone finally deleted it. Can't say the shaman community was wrong on that one.

Looking back I really feel sorry for Tseric. He was set up for failure and Blizzard fuck him over royally. I hope the guy found a better job.

I don't remember the specific post that Tseric ended up getting fired over, but I'm pretty sure he started popping off on a player on the forums. Which was probably deserved, but I don't remember what was happening at the time.

I'd never be able to do that type of job, because you still have to tow the company line even if you completely agree with the players and think the issue you're being forced to defend is bullshit. Not saying that was the case with Tseric, but I'm sure it happens a lot. It does in GS for sure.

[Androidpk]

I said it in Vanilla/BC, and I'll say it again! Shamans are just druids whose players never learned to read good or do other stuff good too and accidentally clicked the wrong class at creation.

Elemental shamans rocked in Vanilla/TBC as proved by Ioneye.

[Taernath]

I don't remember the specific post that Tseric ended up getting fired over, but I'm pretty sure he started popping off on a player on the forums. Which was probably deserved, but I don't remember what was happening at the time.

It was during class review and he was filling in for whoever was the main shaman guy at the time. Shaman were in bad shape. There was a lot of really good suggestions and discussion (with shitposting intermixed) but he ignored all the well written and thought-out stuff and only responded to the shitposting. Once the class review was finished and virtually nothing that was suggested was done, the community had reached critical mass he made his infamous 'get off my internet' post. I feel for the guy but at the same time, he brought a lot of it on himself.

[Methais]

It was during class review and he was filling in for whoever was the main shaman guy at the time. Shaman were in bad shape. There was a lot of really good suggestions and discussion (with shitposting intermixed) but he ignored all the well written and thought-out stuff and only responded to the shitposting. Once the class review was finished and virtually nothing that was suggested was done, the community had reached critical mass he made his infamous 'get off my internet' post. I feel for the guy but at the same time, he brought a lot of it on himself.

He was pretty douchy on the mage forums too from what I remember.

There's even a Tseric wiki holy shit :lol:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Tseric

[Hymore246]

Tseric did do a lot of stuff near the end that should have got him fired. That said, Blizzard threw the guy to the wolves. I'm not sure if they didn't care or were hoping he could calm the shaman community down but all he could do was be the bearer of bad news. The community wasn't pleased and took it out on him. I still blame Blizzard for that.

Shaman were great in Vanilla from what I understand, but they were terrible in Burning Crusade. They didn't get nerfed, every other class was just continuously buffed. It was a well accepted fact by the entire WoW community that shaman were the weakest class in the game. It got bad enough that other classes were asking for shaman to be buffed. Everyone got boosted in the next expansion though but I quit the class before then. The main I played for years until I quit was a druid. I enjoyed that class so much and never touch the shaman class again.

The entire thing taught me how important it was for a community and the devs to communicate with each other. Games can live and die by it.

[Stumplicker]

The entire thing taught me how important it was for a community and the devs to communicate with each other. Games can live and die by it.

The moral of the story is the Blizzard learned its lesson and started communicating with its fanbase and they never again released a mobile version of Diablo rehashing old graphics and got booed at their own convention ever again. The end.

[Methais]

Tseric did do a lot of stuff near the end that should have got him fired. That said, Blizzard threw the guy to the wolves. I'm not sure if they didn't care or were hoping he could calm the shaman community down but all he could do was be the bearer of bad news. The community wasn't pleased and took it out on him. I still blame Blizzard for that.

Shaman were great in Vanilla from what I understand, but they were terrible in Burning Crusade. They didn't get nerfed, every other class was just continuously buffed. It was a well accepted fact by the entire WoW community that shaman were the weakest class in the game. It got bad enough that other classes were asking for shaman to be buffed. Everyone got boosted in the next expansion though but I quit the class before then. The main I played for years until I quit was a druid. I enjoyed that class so much and never touch the shaman class again.

The entire thing taught me how important it was for a community and the devs to communicate with each other. Games can live and die by it.

Sounds like how warlocks are now. I don't know how they are in PvE, but in PvP they're free as fuck.

[Stumplicker]

There's always one class that's perceived to be the worst in any given role in any given expansion. In Vanilla it was Druids. People were hesitant to even bring me in a group because I could only rez every 15 or 30 minutes or whatever it was. They eventually came around to the fact that I wasn't letting them die anyway so it didn't matter, but that was when you were only playing with people on your server. In BC it was Shamans, but man, Shamans had the biggest gap by far of any of the expansions. They were just bad in any role you put them in. Thankfully, Druids during BC were kings. Two buttons and top the heal charts every time, while moving!

[Hymore246]

Sounds like how warlocks are now. I don't know how they are in PvE, but in PvP they're free as fuck.

I gave up on PvP because Blizzard constantly jumbles the meta every patch. Not to mention every class being completely redefined every expansion. Having to constantly relearn and get more PvP gear is annoying.

[Methais]

I gave up on PvP because Blizzard constantly jumbles the meta every patch. Not to mention every class being completely redefined every expansion. Having to constantly relearn and get more PvP gear is annoying.

For what it’s worth, gear barely matters in PvP anymore.

[Stumplicker]

Best I can tell, neither gear nor skill matters anymore. Everything's just kind of handed to you for putting enough time in.

[Methais]

Best I can tell, neither gear nor skill matters anymore. Everything's just kind of handed to you for putting enough time in.

What I mean is there’s some sort of scaling system in PvP now. Even if you’re a fresh cap in trash greens you’re still not gonna get 2 shotted by someone in full i395 purples.

Nobody knows specifically how it works but there are videos that will break it down a decent bit.

I’ve been having fun with this expansion though. At least until Red Dead 2 came out.

[Neveragain]

What I mean is there’s some sort of scaling system in PvP now. Even if you’re a fresh cap in trash greens you’re still not gonna get 2 shotted by someone in full i395 purples.

Nobody knows specifically how it works but there are videos that will break it down a decent bit.

I’ve been having fun with this expansion though. At least until Red Dead 2 came out.

That red dead looks fun, wish it was on PC.

PvP started to take a turn for the worse when they started doing cross realm BG's. Getting to know your enemies was a big part of PvP, I really miss it and it's a large part of why I'm looking forward to the classic release.

[sellstuff1]

How do you think you would pull this off? Please give us details on more of your stupid ideas so that we may laugh at you some more.

Easy. F2P alt that holds everyone's hands before Dreaven does. I already have a lich script to generate a F2P landing character. All I'd have to do is create a listening script for Dreavenings and run a grouping script when he announces not to join anyone. This can all be automated, and the characters are fresh burners, so Dreaven will have to fundamentally change how his script works. Or he could just stop being a blatant fascist. Choice is his.

[sellstuff1]

Hey Alastir which IRS form are you using to report your gambling winnings via GSIV?

[Tgo01]

Hey Alastir which IRS form are you using to report your gambling winnings via GSIV?

Never thought I'd see the day where I feel bad for Inspire and actually take his side against someone else, and yet here sellstuff1 is. Glad he's on the far left's side, great addition to your gang there, everyone.

[sellstuff1]

Never thought I'd see the day where I feel bad for Inspire and actually take his side against someone else, and yet here sellstuff1 is. Glad he's on the far left's side, great addition to your gang there, everyone.

Ut oh someone let the NPC fascist out of the politics folder! Quick, get him a mobility scooter so we can get him back!

[sellstuff1]

The moral of the story is the Blizzard learned its lesson and started communicating with its fanbase and they never again released a mobile version of Diablo rehashing old graphics and got booed at their own convention ever again. The end.

Ahahahahaha

[Tgo01]

Easy. F2P alt that holds everyone's hands before Dreaven does. I already have a lich script to generate a F2P landing character. All I'd have to do is create a listening script for Dreavenings and run a grouping script when he announces not to join anyone. This can all be automated, and the characters are fresh burners, so Dreaven will have to fundamentally change how his script works. Or he could just stop being a blatant fascist. Choice is his.

Thanks for the heads up, took me 2 minutes to alter my script to combat this.

[sellstuff1]

Thanks for the heads up, took me 2 minutes to alter my script to combat this.

Cool now live test it 7 times before it actually works.

[Gelston]

Btw, this is Clairette. I wasn't going to just say who it was but she us being such a giant douchbag in this thread, fuck her.

[Murrandii]

Makes sense… Lady threw a tantrum at me cause I decided not to wait in a queue to get boxes picked by her, went to the local locksmith.
Man, anger issue is a documented mental desease, go consult

[Methais]

Easy. F2P alt that holds everyone's hands before Dreaven does. I already have a lich script to generate a F2P landing character. All I'd have to do is create a listening script for Dreavenings and run a grouping script when he announces not to join anyone. This can all be automated, and the characters are fresh burners, so Dreaven will have to fundamentally change how his script works. Or he could just stop being a blatant fascist. Choice is his.

That would be very easy to sidestep by Dreaven adding like one line to his script. I'm sure you probably stayed up for like 3 days straight coning up with this master plan, but you'll have to be more creative than that for it to work more than once.

[Methais]

Makes sense… Lady threw a tantrum at me cause I decided not to wait in a queue to get boxes picked by her, went to the local locksmith.
Man, anger issue is a documented mental desease, go consult

Hahaha what the fuck?

I have a capped 3x pick/disarm rogue and I still use the NPC locksmith because fuck all that RT.

[Mobius1]

In my opinion, the best addition to Gemstone, that has been done since like....GS4 came out, was not even done by Simu. I'm thinking of Lich.

Without Lich, and all the scripts players have made for it, GS would be practically unplayable for me, anymore!

But that comes down to the crux of the problem, as so many have stated - Simu doesn't pay devs, so nothing ever gets done. I've wasted away so many hours of my life trying to get things changed/fixed, and aside from the rare GM that would come around (and subsequently burn out.), nothing would ever get done.

My other beef, is that players will defend overpowered skills/spells to the death, rather than accepting balance. And what makes matters worse, is most class lead GM's (or whatever they call themselves...sorry, it's been a while) are vested in the class themselves, so they don't want to fix and balance anything. Even if 90% of all class improvements are good and needed, any that aren't typically get set in stone anyways, and never go away. Like, forgive my dated example because I haven't played in like 3 years, but that ridiculous spell they gave clerics that basically made them invincible - I'd be very surprised if they did a damn thing to balance that spell since I last played! And guess what?! I'm going to get negative feedback just for bringing it up!

And God forbid you try to get a skill or spell balanced on the official forums! I've garnered quite a bit of rage over the years on my balancing crusades. Granted, I'm always down to butt heads over that BS 609 spell!

As far as events and money sinks go - I've always seen that as an issue with this game. I've boycotted them since I first heard about them, and to this day have never ONCE paid for an event or a premie subscription. But people will continue to pay for those things, because silvers = $$$, and because for so many, GS is their life, so what else are they going to spend their money on?

But hey, no one wants to hear my opinions on how to fix it. I'll just get even more rage. But thankfully, it's not like this game is all bad - you don't need all the fancy baubles to succeed in this game. I was using plain jane 4x armor post cap for ages, and did just fine. And you can have the fanciest sword of death or god armor ever made, and my feras knife will kill you just the same.

~Midgar

[Methais]

In my opinion, the best addition to Gemstone, that has been done since like....GS4 came out, was not even done by Simu. I'm thinking of Lich.

Without Lich, and all the scripts players have made for it, GS would be practically unplayable for me, anymore!

But that comes down to the crux of the problem, as so many have stated - Simu doesn't pay devs, so nothing ever gets done. I've wasted away so many hours of my life trying to get things changed/fixed, and aside from the rare GM that would come around (and subsequently burn out.), nothing would ever get done.

My other beef, is that players will defend overpowered skills/spells to the death, rather than accepting balance. And what makes matters worse, is most class lead GM's (or whatever they call themselves...sorry, it's been a while) are vested in the class themselves, so they don't want to fix and balance anything. Even if 90% of all class improvements are good and needed, any that aren't typically get set in stone anyways, and never go away. Like, forgive my dated example because I haven't played in like 3 years, but that ridiculous spell they gave clerics that basically made them invincible - I'd be very surprised if they did a damn thing to balance that spell since I last played! And guess what?! I'm going to get negative feedback just for bringing it up!

And God forbid you try to get a skill or spell balanced on the official forums! I've garnered quite a bit of rage over the years on my balancing crusades. Granted, I'm always down to butt heads over that BS 609 spell!

As far as events and money sinks go - I've always seen that as an issue with this game. I've boycotted them since I first heard about them, and to this day have never ONCE paid for an event or a premie subscription. But people will continue to pay for those things, because silvers = $$$, and because for so many, GS is their life, so what else are they going to spend their money on?

But hey, no one wants to hear my opinions on how to fix it. I'll just get even more rage. But thankfully, it's not like this game is all bad - you don't need all the fancy baubles to succeed in this game. I was using plain jane 4x armor post cap for ages, and did just fine. And you can have the fanciest sword of death or god armor ever made, and my feras knife will kill you just the same.

~Midgar

Simu doesn't know how to balance things even when they try. If they think a spell or something is OP, their solution is to nerf it into uselessness.

If X profession is trash, their solution is to nerf other professions instead of buffing X profession.

[Gelston]

Simu doesn't know how to balance things even when they try. If they think a spell or something is OP, their solution is to nerf it into uselessness.

If X profession is trash, their solution is to nerf other professions instead of buffing X profession.

The problem is, Wizards are the easiest profession to fuck with. They fuck with any other non-profession spell circle, they are hitting at least two professions. It is harder to balance things when you have to worry about how something will effect multiple professions rather than just one. That is why clerics are so fucking boring, they can't make the 200s better without making empaths even better, but they can't quite figure out how to fuck with the 300s in a way that'll make clerics happy.

[audioserf]

Makes sense… Lady threw a tantrum at me cause I decided not to wait in a queue to get boxes picked by her, went to the local locksmith.
Man, anger issue is a documented mental desease, go consult

LOL. Yep, I'll wait for a PC locksmith as soon as they stop having RT for picking. Didn't Clairette ragequit anyway fairly recently?

[Gelston]

LOL. Yep, I'll wait for a PC locksmith as soon as they stop having RT for picking. Didn't Clairette ragequit anyway fairly recently?

She was booted from discord for being an idiot, so probably. EG triggered the fuck out of her, and I guess she has decided to slather us with her rageposts instead of lnet now.

[Mobius1]

Hey, that was one of the things I tried to get changed! Lol, a group of us actually resorted to trying to block people from using Larton, which resulted in a GM spawning critters, and even a meteor storm.

But honestly, the issue with locksmithing has more to do with a lack of players, than anything else. You can genuinely want a player to pick your boxes, but 9.5 times out of 10, there won't be one around. But hey, maybe they could have a drop off box at the east tower....now that would be cool!

[Taernath]

Btw, this is Clairette. I wasn't going to just say who it was but she us being such a giant douchbag in this thread, fuck her.

I was getting those vibes when she started going off on rogue locksmithing.


Easy. F2P alt that holds everyone's hands before Dreaven does. I already have a lich script to generate a F2P landing character. All I'd have to do is create a listening script for Dreavenings and run a grouping script when he announces not to join anyone. This can all be automated, and the characters are fresh burners, so Dreaven will have to fundamentally change how his script works. Or he could just stop being a blatant fascist. Choice is his.

https://media.giphy.com/media/QbumCX9HFFDQA/giphy.gif

[Methais]

Hey, that was one of the things I tried to get changed! Lol, a group of us actually resorted to trying to block people from using Larton, which resulted in a GM spawning critters, and even a meteor storm.

But honestly, the issue with locksmithing has more to do with a lack of players, than anything else. You can genuinely want a player to pick your boxes, but 9.5 times out of 10, there won't be one around. But hey, maybe they could have a drop off box at the east tower....now that would be cool!

How exactly do you block someone from using the NPC locksmith unless you're attacking them?

The biggest problem with picking other than lack of players is Simu's refusal to address RT issues. Nobody has time for that bullshit when they can open 4832704 boxes in 30 seconds instead.

[Gelston]

How exactly do you block someone from using the NPC locksmith unless you're attacking them?

If people were trying to block me from using the NPC locksmith in anyway, I'd just stop picking up boxes.

[Mobius1]

You errrr.....attack them....

Granted, there was verbal exchange first... :D

[Methais]

If people were trying to block me from using the NPC locksmith in anyway, I'd just stop picking up boxes.

You don't have to put the box on the counter to use the NPC locksmith though, so it's not like they can take them. And unless they're casting Bind on you or something, how are they going to stop you from using an automated NPC that's immune to attacks?

[Methais]

You errrr.....attack them....

Granted, there was verbal exchange first... :D

What were you guys doing, patrolling level 15s? Because good luck with that vs a capped character.

[Gelston]

You don't have to put the box on the counter to use the NPC locksmith though, so it's not like they can take them. And unless they're casting Bind on you or something, how are they going to stop you from using an automated NPC that's immune to attacks?

I know, but I mean using other means like RT locking and what not. No, wait, I'd still get boxes, and then post logs of me dumping them all down the well.

[Mobius1]

A capped character was easy enough to sweep/footstomp/all manner of things.

But for most people it was just RP and no violence. It was mainly the scripters we attacked. Which is ultimately what got us in trouble. But it was cool that the GM took over Larton and RPed with us.

But we really did try to get people to use players for locksmithing. We even tried to schedule people to be at the tower, but people would use Larton anyways.

[Gelston]

A capped character was easy enough to sweep/footstomp/all manner of things.

But for most people it was just RP and no violence. It was mainly the scripters we attacked. Which is ultimately what got us in trouble. But it was cool that the GM took over Larton and RPed with us.

But we really did try to get people to use players for locksmithing. We even tried to schedule people to be at the tower, but people would use Larton anyways.

Yeah and that is where you went wrong. If people were fucking with me whether I was using a script or not, getting my boxes picked at Larton, because they wanted me to use them... I'd make it a point to NEVER use a player locksmith ever again.

[BriarFox]

Yeah and that is where you went wrong. If people were fucking with me whether I was using a script or not, getting my boxes picked at Larton, because they wanted me to use them... I'd make it a point to NEVER use a player locksmith ever again.

"After I killed them all." You left out that very important part.

[Mobius1]

Yeah and that is where you went wrong. If people were fucking with me whether I was using a script or not, getting my boxes picked at Larton, because they wanted me to use them... I'd make it a point to NEVER use a player locksmith ever again.

Well, what do you expect when you have a bunch of rogues get together trying to stir up trouble?! :P

Honestly, like I said - most people we didn't attack. We were just telling them that there was a locksmith at the east tower and that Larton was "closed."

But hey, there wasn't really any "good" solution to the issue, that a group of players could accomplish. That was our best shot, aside from trying to schedule pickers. So many people said they use Larton because there were no locksmiths around, but when there were locksmiths, they still used Larton.

Maybe Larton should have RT...that would be great, actually. Send the request to Simu immediately!

[Gelston]

Well, what do you expect when you have a bunch of rogues get together trying to stir up trouble?! :P

Honestly, like I said - most people we didn't attack. We were just telling them that there was a locksmith at the east tower and that Larton was "closed."

But hey, there wasn't really any "good" solution to the issue, that a group of players could accomplish. That was our best shot, aside from trying to schedule pickers.

My biggest issue with locksmiths is that I'm losing xp sitting there getting my boxes picked. If using a player also awarded you XP to keep you at fried or saturated that would probably be a huge step in the right direction.

[BriarFox]

Well, what do you expect when you have a bunch of rogues get together trying to stir up trouble?! :P

Honestly, like I said - most people we didn't attack. We were just telling them that there was a locksmith at the east tower and that Larton was "closed."

But hey, there wasn't really any "good" solution to the issue, that a group of players could accomplish. That was our best shot, aside from trying to schedule pickers.

Or ... you could have incentivized players to use PC locksmiths by not charging them, or only charging a small amount per box. Trying to force players to use PC locksmiths when it's against their interest in both money and time will never work.

[Androidpk]

Have casters on hand to provide spells while people get their boxes picked.

[Mobius1]

Or ... you could have incentivized players to use PC locksmiths by not charging them, or only charging a small amount per box. Trying to force players to use PC locksmiths when it's against their interest in both money and time will never work.

We tried all manner of things. Lots of pickers didn't charge. But that's not fair to expect - that's their source of income.

We even tried to get the east tower made a super node.

Really, what needs to happen is the locksmithing system needs a revamp. They went and made it super complicated after the last revamp, instead of making it a faster process as they should have. And they should make it possible without having to trade the boxes.

Or, even better, if you ask me, they should drastically reduce the number of boxes that drop, and make them have more valuables and give the smith much more XP.

[Stumplicker]

I like the box idea for boxes, whoever suggested that. I saw it in passing but don't want to go back and re-read it.

If there were a personalized box you could drop off in the east tower, like a jailbox, but for boxes to be picked, and you could say, set a price per box you were willing to pay, then come back and pick them up later after they were picked, that'd be great. It'd be very difficult to code, and probably won't ever happen, but that would pretty much reinvigorate PC lockpicking if you ask me.

You drop off 6 boxes, set it at 1000 silvers per box in tip, you leave. Rogue shows up, picks the boxes, puts 'em back, collects the tips. You pick them up at your leisure over the next couple days. No show after 3 days, boxes disappear. No need for you to find an online locksmith right just now, you save compared to going to Larton, rogue gets exp, scarabs, and your tip, like normal. Everybody wins.

[Mobius1]

I like the box idea for boxes, whoever suggested that. I saw it in passing but don't want to go back and re-read it.

If there were a personalized box you could drop off in the east tower, like a jailbox, but for boxes to be picked, and you could say, set a price per box you were willing to pay, then come back and pick them up later after they were picked, that'd be great. It'd be very difficult to code, and probably won't ever happen, but that would pretty much reinvigorate PC lockpicking if you ask me.

You drop off 6 boxes, set it at 1000 silvers per box in tip, you leave. Rogue shows up, picks the boxes, puts 'em back, collects the tips. You pick them up at your leisure over the next couple days. No show after 3 days, boxes disappear. No need for you to find an online locksmith right just now, you save compared to going to Larton, rogue gets exp, scarabs, and your tip, like normal. Everybody wins.

Yep, that was basically the same sort of thing I was thinking of. In fact, that would probably be a lot easier than revamping locksmithing, adding nodes, etc..

[Stumplicker]

Never understood why locksmiths don’t just comission out their services. Selling unlocking 300 box minimum , toughest lock done -437 (Ithzir on down). charging, 10% of finds, you keep uniques.

Meh. Societal norm I guess. Same reason people flip out if a restaurant adds an automatic gratuity to a check.

[Methais]

I know, but I mean using other means like RT locking and what not. No, wait, I'd still get boxes, and then post logs of me dumping them all down the well.

I'd post logs of me opening them in Icemule.

[Methais]

A capped character was easy enough to sweep/footstomp/all manner of things.

But for most people it was just RP and no violence. It was mainly the scripters we attacked. Which is ultimately what got us in trouble. But it was cool that the GM took over Larton and RPed with us.

But we really did try to get people to use players for locksmithing. We even tried to schedule people to be at the tower, but people would use Larton anyways.

Blame Simu for never addressing the ridiculous pick/disarm RT, not the players who don't want to deal with spending a half hour having their boxes picked to get 17k and 3 chipped bricks.

[Stumplicker]

Blame Simu for never addressing the ridiculous pick/disarm RT, not the players who don't want to deal with spending a half hour having their boxes picked to get 17k and 3 chipped bricks.

The RT does get annoying. It would stand to reason that you could lower it with more training in pick/disarm (or lockmastery), like first aid with herbs.

[Mobius1]

Never understood why locksmiths don’t just comission out their services. Selling unlocking 300 box minimum , toughest lock done -437 (Ithzir on down). charging, 10% of finds, you keep uniques.

If they don't anymore, it's because there are so few left? I guess I can't speak for the current state of the game, but there's probably not a huge amount of non-pocket pickers left these days.

And unlike other things that had to be adapted to make up for dwindling player bases (such as changes to guild training, etc..), locksmithing never has. The only adaptation that was made was the NPC locksmiths, which wasn't exactly the best fix in the minds of player locksmiths.

[Methais]

Maybe Larton should have RT...that would be great, actually. Send the request to Simu immediately!

- Dump boxes on alt
- Run ;sloot on alt
- Go back out hunting on main while alt deals with RT

[Mobius1]

- Dump boxes on alt
- Run ;sloot on alt
- Go back out hunting on main while alt deals with RT

Lol, hey, I won't deny I'm part of the problem myself. I'm probably the only rogue that has a pocket picker (of the locksmithing kind, anyways)! Never been a locksmith, never will be! And hell, I'll STILL use Larton because picking is such a PITA.

But even when like 90% of my in game friends were rogues, I still struggled to get my boxes picked. RT was the least of my worries. My lockers and bags on like 3 different characters filling up before I could finally find a locksmith.....that was my biggest worry!

[Methais]

Lol, hey, I won't deny I'm part of the problem myself. I'm probably the only rogue that has a pocket picker (of the locksmithing kind, anyways)! Never been a locksmith, never will be! And hell, I'll STILL use Larton because picking is such a PITA.

But even when like 90% of my in game friends were rogues, I still struggled to get my boxes picked. RT was the least of my worries. My lockers and bags on like 3 different characters filling up before I could finally find a locksmith.....that was my biggest worry!

I don't even use my own capped 3x pick/disarm rogue to open my own boxes because of the RT, and I find tons of boxes in the Rift.

My rogue just opens plinites and literally nothing else. Which can induce RT (though not usually and not for much, esp as levels were gained) but there's no disarming or any of that, just picking. Went from 70-100 purely off that.

PC lockpicking has been abandoned for way too long and Simu has given zero fucks about addressing it.

[audioserf]

Rogues as a profession seem to have been given the old 'Welp, we're done!' checkmark years ago. When is the last time we heard about ANY kind of dev for rogues? At least wizards got nerfed and monks got 1206. That's being recognized as existing! :)

[Mobius1]

Well, I got nerfed as a rogue, by Sloot! (Bloody closed containers!)

But I guess that's been around for a while....

Someone needs to sell me a nifty item that lets me steal from closed containers or through sancts or something. Some crazy thing like that has to exist, right?! :D

Hmmm, maybe people don't want me to come back, what with my +50 PP enhancements and all. Or whatever the max is, I forget (I don't think the PP system was designed to have enhancements, because it kind of breaks it, honestly).

[SonoftheNorth]

Well, I got nerfed as a rogue, by Sloot! (Bloody closed containers!)

But I guess that's been around for a while....

Someone needs to sell me a nifty item that lets me steal from closed containers or through sancts or something. Some crazy thing like that has to exist, right?! :D

Hmmm, maybe people don't want me to come back, what with my +50 PP enhancements and all (Or whatever the max is, I forget.).

You could just stalk afk scripters and rob them blind.

[Mobius1]

You could just stalk afk scripters and rob them blind.

Robbing corpses is where it's really at, actually.

[Methais]

Well, I got nerfed as a rogue, by Sloot! (Bloody closed containers!)

But I guess that's been around for a while....

Someone needs to sell me a nifty item that lets me steal from closed containers or through sancts or something. Some crazy thing like that has to exist, right?! :D

Hmmm, maybe people don't want me to come back, what with my +50 PP enhancements and all. Or whatever the max is, I forget (I don't think the PP system was designed to have enhancements, because it kind of breaks it, honestly).

Who are you though?

And lol pickpocketing. Most useless skill in the game.

[Mobius1]

Who are you though?

And lol pickpocketing. Most useless skill in the game.

Hey, killing someone and then overtly robbing their corpse has got to be one of the most gratifying things I have done in this game.

[Stumplicker]

Pickpocketing is a great skill. Nobody expects you to use it anymore, and nobody protects their stuff. And 75% of them are afk when they're resting, so even if you get seen, nobody really sees you. My rogue makes anywhere between 5-20k between each hunt usually just by resting in a spot with people in it. If only it gave experience, I would never leave town.

[Neveragain]

I used to pickpocket at the NPC locksmith in the landing when I was bored.

[Taernath]

Pickpocketing is a great skill. Nobody expects you to use it anymore, and nobody protects their stuff.

Maybe if you find the one guy in game who doesn't use lich and doesn't keep his containers closed you can do something. Vast majority of people just deposit everything via script after a hunt, so they have literally nothing for you to steal. Plus so many people are post-cap with PP training of their own, and all the anti-thief items that have been released over the years.

[Stumplicker]

Maybe if you find the one guy in game who doesn't use lich and doesn't keep his containers closed you can do something. Vast majority of people just deposit everything via script after a hunt, so they have literally nothing for you to steal.

I dunno about you, but my scripts don't really close containers. Maybe I'm the outlier, but it doesn't really seem to me like a lot of other people keep theirs closed either. I get all sorts of stuff. I think most people are using ;sloot and ;sloot sell at this point, and I don't think that closes by default.

Edit to add: The only real hindrance I have every now and again is finding rooms with more than just one or two people in them that aren't protected against pickpocketing. Not that it really stops me if I have no other options, because those one or two people are usually afk and won't really see me if they see me anyway.

[Neveragain]

Maybe if you find the one guy in game who doesn't use lich and doesn't keep his containers closed you can do something. Vast majority of people just deposit everything via script after a hunt, so they have literally nothing for you to steal. Plus so many people are post-cap with PP training of their own, and all the anti-thief items that have been released over the years.

This is why I camped out at the locksmith, by the time a capped character caught on I was gone.

I can only remember getting caught up in anti-theft stuff twice.

Another good time is when everyone is gathered during story lines, even got RPA's for being an entertaining thief.

[Mobius1]

Maybe if you find the one guy in game who doesn't use lich and doesn't keep his containers closed you can do something. Vast majority of people just deposit everything via script after a hunt, so they have literally nothing for you to steal. Plus so many people are post-cap with PP training of their own, and all the anti-thief items that have been released over the years.

If you are 2x PP, a character that is 1x might as well not even have any PP skill.

Traps will get you caught though (Although I've found with max enhancives, my chance of stealing traps skyrocketed. I can also PP from a 3x perception/2x PP rogue alone in the room and not get caught.).

Being able to actively see when items go missing from your bag, is also a bit lame, when used by a player.

But whatever the case, getting caught usually leads to a lot of fun anyways. Though some people take it a little too personal...

What I hated, was when people I hadn't even stolen from, attacked me for allegedly stealing from a friend of theirs (even though I was never caught.). Well, I guess it led to some very gratifying revenge, though...

[SonoftheNorth]

if only it gave experience, I would never leave town.

That would be awesome and it should since you have to spend TP's on it.

[Mobius1]

Man, you guys really weren't lying about Simu putting all its efforts into paid events.

I've come to realize that 95% of GM activity on the forums and in discord, is addressing stuff about DR, HESS, Treasure Trove, etc.. Yet when it comes to fixing issues with the game, or improving it, there are only crickets.

Part of me wants to just hop on one of those forums and start asking about game issues!

I understand the game needs money to continue. But they already ask a crazy price just for basic service, compared to today's standards. Let alone the fact that most of the population these days seem to be premie. Then you add in all these cash grabs, and I really start to wonder....Where the heck is all this money going? Sounds like a few people are just pocketing it all! It would be nice if they could actually pay some people to develop and advertise their game.

And do squares even have a bloody GM that does anything for them? Talk about bastard step-children of GS!

[audioserf]

Yep. People keep buying SimuCoins, they keep running SimuCoin events. There isn't going to be a rousing pivotal scene where inspirational music plays and everyone joins together to combat StillFront and refuse to use the SimuCoin shop. If that's a problem for you then it's no longer the right game for you. Blunt, honest, realistic truth. They are squeezing all of the cash they can out of this player base. When that dries up, the game is gone. Enjoy it while it lasts, or don't. Do you.

[Mobius1]

Hell, I don't even need to pay to win. I have never paid for a single event in all my years and I do just fine.

The fact that most of the crap is unnecessary to me, is probably the only reason I am still here.

A 5 setting gold ring? I have like 500 regular gold rings, so what the hell good would that do me?

The sad part is simply that it's leaving the game in neglect, and what little is done seems to be pandering to specific classes.

I also find it hilarious that they will sell something at an obscene price, simply to make certain broken systems viable (for those that shell out the cash.). Like throwing, haha.

But whatever, it's not like the game is broken. Though it's a wonder it isn't, with all the obscene inflation, past GMA, crazy god items, etc.!

[Stumplicker]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I wish they'd implemented a crowdfunding development situation, even in addition to the stupid cash shop if they wanted.

e.g. -

Pay $20 towards a $5,000 goal to have a Ranger's guild implemented. X% goes to pay coders working on the system. X% goes to other costs for implementation. X% goes to profit margin. Funds held until the goal is met. If the goal isn't met after X days/weeks/months, everyone that invested can either pick another project to fund or get their money back. Just like the other crowdfunding sites. Invest in the project at certain levels and earn perks, like an NPC in the guild that you work with the GMs to design. A statue of your character as a founder in the Landing's Guild hall. A drink at the bar of your own design. Maybe even work with the GMs to develop a guild skill. etc.

Everybody wins. You're paying specifically for development you're interested in. It doesn't have anyone paying to win anything that doesn't benefit the entire playerbase. The company still makes its margin on a service they would otherwise and really should have all along been offering as part of the subscription. But in lieu of that, fuck it. It's better than "roleplaying awards" for cash.

[audioserf]

I can see where you're coming from with the idea but I don't really like it. This might be cognitive dissonance talking, but I have a real problem with being asked to pay extra for development for a game with a high monthly subscription cost (compared to competitors) run by a company who are making it absolutely rain with SimuCoin events. I'll do some DR Arena runs because I find it fun, and I buy SimuCoin stuff sometimes, but having to kick in to a THIRD pot just to hope to get a spell circle or two finished? That's borderline offensive imo.

[Stumplicker]

I can see where you're coming from with the idea but I don't really like it. This might be cognitive dissonance talking, but I have a real problem with being asked to pay extra for development for a game with a high monthly subscription cost (compared to competitors) run by a company who are making it absolutely rain with SimuCoin events. I'll do some DR Arena runs because I find it fun, and I buy SimuCoin stuff sometimes, but having to kick in to a THIRD pot just to hope to get a spell circle or two finished? That's borderline offensive imo.

Oh yeah no doubt. I hate the idea of paying a giant subscription fee AND having to pay for development AND having to pay for items from a cash shop. Development of the game should be covered by the subscription cost alone, to keep people interested in the continuing to pay it. I'm just saying that in our current situation, it'd be preferable, at least to me, to what we have now. On an even playing field, I'd only say implement a crowdfunded development scheme in a free to play MUD (that's where I originally pitched that idea).

[Mobius1]

It's a pretty widespread problem throughout the whole MMO market.

Games will often pander to whales, which ultimately leads to many players quitting, thus leaving the whales with no one to play with, thus making all their advantages rather pointless, thus ruining the game.

At least in the case of Gemstone, it's not as severe of an effect on game balance. But the development priorities are becoming a huge issue.

[Stumplicker]

Again, I am 100% certain that Wyrom absolutely, positively knows this (as a former player and all). But he has some X dollar quota put there by Whatley in terms of hitting goals and can’t do anything but try to find another scam way to get people to buy/spend simucoins.

Mario is far less innocent than everyone seems to give him credit for. You don't employ the sales tactics he does without being a supremely shitty human being deep down.

[audioserf]

If digging/deep sea diving type P2W events aren't a slot machine then I don't know what is.

[Dud]

Complaining is fun. But let's get real:

1. GSIV is for profit, it exists to make money (not to please you).
2. High subscription fees and pay events are due to #1. It is a tiny but committed player base. They have evaluated that player base and made a decision to maximize revenue.
3. GSIV might have a nice ROI, but it brings in a tiny amount of revenue. It is not worth investing in growth. It is just a small game among Stillfront's long tail of games. Nobody at Stillfront even cares about Gemstone IV, the only people thinking about it are you and Mario.
4. Crowd funded development is a nifty approach, but see line #3. I doubt you could get significant crowd funding, and it sends the wrong message to the players: the game is dead.

Don't be angry or frustrated. Let the Whale's enjoy their uber gear, it is what keeps the game afloat. I hit level 63 using a 4x broadsword I bought in 1995 for a $1.50 (100K silver). People are not actually "paying to win", they are just paying for the joy they feel when acquiring something new and cool. I know you love the game and want it to grow, but we all know that is not happening. Just enjoy a piece of nostalgia and be thankful the game still exists. Or not.

[Mobius1]

Complaining is fun. But let's get real:

1. GSIV is for profit, it exists to make money (not to please you).

I beg to differ. I pay my subscription fee for it to please me. If it did not please its players, it would not exist.

And honestly, having whales in dope gear doesn't bother me much. What bothers me is the investment of development time. That DOES impact me, and DOES warrant my complaining.

Do I really need to link an Extra Credits video to explain the reasons why investing so much into whales in favor of the community is such a bad thing?