Confluence Loot - Per Character Daily Cap

[Methais]

Cross posting this from the officials, since there are probably some Confluence hunters here that don't read the officials trying to figure out wtf has been up with the loot lately.


This place doesn't appear to follow normal loot rules at all, and I'm looking to hopefully get some clarification on how it actually does work.

For most of the past few years, I would farm the place pretty heavily, and the loot was consistently good, with stuff often dropping 2 gems at a time, etc.

Over the past 6-12 months or so, it's been acting much differently. When I first start hunting for the day, the loot is fantastic for the first hour or two, and then it abruptly drops off a cliff and drops almost nothing. I come back the next day, loot is good for an hour or two, then it turns to trash again.

It doesn't seem to matter what time of day I log in, it's steadily good for an hour or two, then garbage. I also pretty much never run into other people when I'm in any Confluence. Not saying other people don't hunt it, but I never see anyone, at least in Landing or Teras, which is where I primarily hunt.

But the fact that I can predict with pretty high accuracy when the loot is going to turn to trash, even if it's currently good, leads me to believe that this isn't a loot pressure issue. I was recently speaking with a capped ranger from Plat, and she's having the exact same issue, and she's the only person in Plat that farms the Confluence.

Another weird thing is this happens universally. If Confluence loot is good, it's good in every Confluence in every realm, regardless of which side you're hunting and all that. And when it dries up, it dries up in every Confluence in every realm. I've tested this several times with the same results every time. The Plat ranger is experiencing the exact same thing. This doesn't align at all with how "normal" loot systems work.

The Plat ranger I spoke with referenced some unrelated in game change that took place at about the same time that Confluence loot started acting weird, though I can't remember what it actually was and she's not on for me to ask right now.

But yeah, something's different with this place and it has been for a while now. It's almost as if there's some personal daily loot cap/pressure system in the place or something, though I haven't done any extensive testing with other characters to test that, since they'd all probably get wrecked in there.

I did a little testing just now on my bard, but he's not very far post cap so he can't really handle the place well. Pretty huge difference just on the few kills I had though:

You change your tune slightly, adding the element for Song of Sonic Disruption to your song...
Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a huge ice elemental.
CS: +475 - TD: +398 + CvA: +25 + d100: +36 == +138
Warding failed!
A huge ice elemental reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 58 damage!
... 50 points of damage!
You sense a surge of essence being dragged from the elemental and into your multicolored soulstone.
The ice elemental dissipates into a cool breeze that fades rapidly away.
As the last of the ice elemental disappears, an uncut ruby, a green malachite stone, and an uncut ruby appear in its place.
The silvery luminescence fades from around a huge ice elemental.
The bright luminescence fades from around a huge ice elemental.
A huge ice elemental appears somehow different.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a huge ice elemental.
A huge ice elemental glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves a huge ice elemental.

Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a huge ice elemental.
CS: +475 - TD: +385 + CvA: +25 + d100: +54 == +169
Warding failed!
A huge ice elemental reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 77 damage!
You sense a surge of essence being dragged from the elemental and into your multicolored soulstone.
The ice elemental dissipates into a cool breeze that fades rapidly away.
As the last of the ice elemental disappears, a pink sapphire and a star ruby appear in its place.
The silvery luminescence fades from around a huge ice elemental.
The bright luminescence fades from around a huge ice elemental.
A huge ice elemental appears somehow different.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a huge ice elemental.
A huge ice elemental glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves a huge ice elemental.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a huge water elemental.
CS: +475 - TD: +395 + CvA: +25 + d100: +32 == +137
Warding failed!
A huge water elemental reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 58 damage!
You sense a surge of essence being dragged from the elemental and into your multicolored soulstone.
The water elemental begins bubbling violently before evaporating into nothingness.
As the last of the water elemental disappears, a green sapphire and an uncut emerald appear in its place.
The silvery luminescence fades from around a huge water elemental.
The bright luminescence fades from around a huge water elemental.
A huge water elemental appears somehow different.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a huge water elemental.
A huge water elemental glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves a huge water elemental.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.

Your spellsong is ready.
You weave another verse into your harmony, directing the sound of your voice at a huge air elemental.
CS: +475 - TD: +385 + CvA: +25 + d100: +62 == +177
Warding failed!
A huge air elemental reels under the force of the sonic vibrations!
Sound waves disrupt for 82 damage!
You sense a surge of essence being dragged from the elemental and into your multicolored soulstone.
The air elemental shudders and then whirls away into nothingness.
As the last of the air elemental disappears, a blue tourmaline, a large grey pearl, and an uncut ruby appear in its place.
The silvery luminescence fades from around a huge air elemental.
The bright luminescence fades from around a huge air elemental.
A huge air elemental appears somehow different.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around a huge air elemental.
A huge air elemental glances around, looking a bit less confident.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves a huge air elemental.
Sing Roundtime 3 Seconds.


Total night and day difference. I'd also like to state that the last time I saw 3 gems drop off of one kill was around when I first started hunting the place years ago, and the only times I see 2 gems drop is when I have a loot boost running, and even then it's pretty rare.

Went back in with Methais after, killed a ton of elementals on the cold side, loot was steadily trash. Went back in with bard immediately after, loot was consistently just as good as in the clips posted above. Went back in with Methais again, loot was trash. Went back in with bard after, loot was phenomenal.

I repeated this several times for about an hour with the exact same results. This is the same Landing Confluence Methais was in this morning that was good for an hour or so, and then dried up, but I seriously doubt it would have mattered which Confluence I was in.

Is this a bug? Or was this some sort of stealth nerf that got applied at some point within the past year? It very obvious that there's some sort of character based loot pressure system happening in this place, and not operating under "normal" loot rules.

If it's a nerf, then that's fine. But why would such a change like this not be announced anywhere and be done as a stealth nerf instead?


http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/General%20GemStone%20IV%20Discussion/Game%20Design%20Questions%20and%20Concerns/view/4162

Interested to see what Simu responds with, if they respond at all.

[Taernath]

If it's a nerf, then that's fine. But why would such a change like this not be announced anywhere and be done as a stealth nerf instead?

Because GMs like to be as opaque as possible.

[Astray]

I expect lots of "WE DESIGNED IT PERFECT STFU FGT" from Simu because they are incapable of having criticism leveled at them without crying foul.

[Methais]

They'll probably just ignore the post altogether. I've asked a few times before in the Confluence and the Treasure folder, got ignored every time. But those are mostly inactive folders anyway, so this time I posted it in the game design folder.

I wonder if it's an account based cap instead of a character based cap. I have no way to really test this, as Methais is the only character on that account.

Any other Confluence hunters have enough active capped characters to help test this?

[Donquix]

Confluence loot is now separated into 6 tiers.

When a character finds a luminescent core, they have seed 9 summation chance based on elemental lore - water to be increased to the next tier. Tier increases last 30 minutes.

Happy farming, they totally drop! --Estilid, probably

[Avaia]

I see the post but every time I click on it get "I could not find that post." Did they delete it on you?

[Alastir]

I've experienced something similar.

I can usually hunt the confluence for an hour or two before it's no longer worth it. Today I hunted for about an hour, started out getting a few drops per elemental, and then they just stop dropping things completely. Even using major loot boosts.

You search the area and find:
(stowed in a thin leather jacket)
a pale pink mistvein ruby
some essence of fire
Looted 2 items.
You search the area and find:
(stowed in a thin leather jacket)
an uncut emerald
an uncut diamond

I imagine they implemented an anti-Methais feature since you're known to hunt there so much. It would be nice if they had a change log so we didn't have to notice these things and ask about them. People will bitch about it either way, at least be transparent about changes so we're not surprised by changes.

[Methais]

I see the post but every time I click on it get "I could not find that post." Did they delete it on you?

I had to edit something, which means I had to repost it, and I forgot to fix the link on here.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/General%20GemStone%20IV%20Discussion/Game%20Design%20Questions%20and%20Concerns/view/4162

EDIT: Or maybe not, looks like it was the same link I originally had in OP. The post is still there on the officials though.

Someone had a similar issue seeing a post of mine when I was complaining about cores a while back. I forgot what the deal was though, I wanna say it had something to do with which forum view was being used but I don't remember.

But it's in Gemstone IV > General Gemstone IV Discussion > Game Design Questions and Concerns > post 4162

[Astray]

Can't find it with the new link. CENSORED!

[Methais]

I've experienced something similar.

I can usually hunt the confluence for an hour or two before it's no longer worth it. Today I hunted for about an hour, started out getting a few drops per elemental, and then they just stop dropping things completely. Even using major loot boosts.

You search the area and find:
(stowed in a thin leather jacket)
a pale pink mistvein ruby
some essence of fire
Looted 2 items.
You search the area and find:
(stowed in a thin leather jacket)
an uncut emerald
an uncut diamond

I imagine they implemented an anti-Methais feature since you're known to hunt there so much. It would be nice if they had a change log so we didn't have to notice these things and ask about them. People will bitch about it either way, at least be transparent about changes so we're not surprised by changes.

That's exactly how it goes for me too. When it dries up, even a major loot boost won't help.


I imagine they implemented an anti-Methais feature since you're known to hunt there so much. It would be nice if they had a change log so we didn't have to notice these things and ask about them. People will bitch about it either way, at least be transparent about changes so we're not surprised by changes.

Probably so, and then it got bugged and wrecked everyone. :(

Vyrshkana was saying it's always trash for her. I had thought she was having the same experience as you and I were until I was asking her about it earlier, but apparently it's worse in plat, because she's the only Confluence hunter there at all and dries up after a handful of kills.

She noticed it after this change happened earlier this year:


>Early this year, there was a coding change in the adventurer's guild that affected the confluence: It used to be that you could do confluence tasks given to you from a guild in one town in any town (barring child rescues), so if I needed gems from Icemule for something I could get tasks on Teras and go stock up gems while doing Teras bounties, for example. Now, the guild requires you to do the task in the city/area you get the task in. It's the same change(s) that added an heirloom's full description to the BOUNTY messaging after you find it. I'm fairly sure treasure in confluence plummeted after that.

As annoying as that place is to hunt, even moreso if you don't have a good bit of post cap exp, the loot is literally the only thing that makes the place interesting.

[Darcthundar]

Although I do not remember the exact time for the change. I do remember an earlier nerf when my gem count went down to about 50 gems a hunt. Usually it was 80 - 100 per hunt. I also remember several months ago I was entering the confluence and not losing any outside spells (that was really nice). After that was fixed was when I noticed the hour or so of really great hunting and then nothing. But I could be wrong



Can someone reduce this to flash card form so I can understand this?


Confluence loot is now separated into 6 tiers.

When a character finds a luminescent core, they have seed 9 summation chance based on elemental lore - water to be increased to the next tier. Tier increases last 30 minutes.

Happy farming, they totally drop! --Estilid, probably

[Fortybox]

GSIV is the only game I know where loot gets worse the higher the lvl you get.

It's like you're punished for spending years in the game.

[Astray]

GSIV is the only game I know where loot gets worse the higher the lvl you get.

The treasure system of "this place has been hunted too much so now it's broke" isn't really a fair one. If I come into an area after an MA party, I'm actively being punished for that person hunting there as well. Now factor in that the hunting areas are pretty small and universally if one spot is being hunted, it's being over hunted and because of that, you now get less loot than the person(s) before you.

Feels bad, man. Feels... bad.

[Winter]

It's not just the confluence it's on everything, it looks like you get significant diminishing returns on loot if you hunt longer than 15 minutes regardless of hunting pressure or login rewards. As far as I can tell the cap resets after you've been resting or logged out of the game for x amount of minutes, it seems like it's between 15-30 mins worth of rest for the cap to be removed. It's been like this for at least two months I noticed the difference after doing back to back bounties then switching character for a find the heirloom and the treasure significantly shot up.

[Methais]

It's not just the confluence it's on everything, it looks like you get significant diminishing returns on loot if you hunt longer than 15 minutes regardless of hunting pressure or login rewards. As far as I can tell the cap resets after you've been resting or logged out of the game for x amount of minutes, it seems like it's between 15-30 mins worth of rest for the cap to be removed. It's been like this for at least two months I noticed the difference after doing back to back bounties then switching character for a find the heirloom and the treasure significantly shot up.

For me, Confluence will turn to shit, I'll go to Rift, loot is fine there, I'll go afk a couple hours, go back to Confluence, it's still trash and stays trash until the next day, Rift is still fine, etc.

[Methais]

Somewhat of an update on this retarded shit:

https://i.imgur.com/Mt23KeT.png
https://i.imgur.com/n48jwoR.png
https://i.imgur.com/vQ6it2D.png
https://i.imgur.com/akjmoD0.png



TLDR:

Estild: No one said no changes were made
Me: Wyrom said so multiple times
Estild: Oh. Well changes were made, but we're not gonna say what those changes were unless Coase wants to give out that info.

[Stumplicker]

Somewhat of an update on this retarded shit:

https://i.imgur.com/Mt23KeT.png
https://i.imgur.com/n48jwoR.png
https://i.imgur.com/vQ6it2D.png
https://i.imgur.com/akjmoD0.png



TLDR:

Estild: No one said no changes were made
Me: Wyrom said so multiple times
Estild: Oh. Well changes were made, but we're not gonna say what those changes were unless Coase wants to give out that info.

Every time Estild opens his mouth I lose a little bit of respect for him.

[audioserf]

I saw that on Discord. It was really infuriating to read. Simutronics will never operate like a real company.

[Neveragain]

Somewhat of an update on this retarded shit:

https://i.imgur.com/Mt23KeT.png
https://i.imgur.com/n48jwoR.png
https://i.imgur.com/vQ6it2D.png
https://i.imgur.com/akjmoD0.png



TLDR:

Estild: No one said no changes were made
Me: Wyrom said so multiple times
Estild: Oh. Well changes were made, but we're not gonna say what those changes were unless Coase wants to give out that info.

It's your fault, now sit down and shut up.

Status quo.

[Taernath]

No one said it was you and no one said no mechanics got changed

Estild is a fucking twatwaffle.

[Methais]

I don't even care about the nerf, even though it is pretty stupid considering what a pain in the ass that place is in general. But to do a stealth nerf, apparently bury it way the fuck in the core system to where even Wyrom didn't know about it until he dug through a bunch of shit, and then refuse to give up any details is some amateur bullshit. Does it make them feel special or something? Otherwise what's even the point? Just be like "Hey this is how XYZ works now. L8r."

[Stumplicker]

I don't even care about the nerf, even though it is pretty stupid considering what a pain in the ass that place is in general. But to do a stealth nerf, apparently bury it way the fuck in the core system to where even Wyrom didn't know about it until he dug through a bunch of shit, and then refuse to give up any details is some amateur bullshit. Does it make them feel special or something? Otherwise what's even the point? Just be like "Hey this is how XYZ works now. L8r."

Perhaps they lowered the regular loot levels to increase the drop rate of your special alchemy mat!

[Methais]

Estild is a fucking twatwaffle.

Estild's always making BS statements like that when he doesn't actually know shit and typically comes across as being in love with himself and thinks he can do no wrong. I've been asking Wyrom about the Confluence for months and he was unaware of any changes until he dug around yesterday and found it in the core systems per his Discord post.

I don't get why a loot change to one area would be buried in the core systems unless Coase was trying to hide it from literally everybody (except apparently Estild) including his boss. Seems pretty shady imo, but Coase has always had a good track record as far as I know.

[Methais]

Perhaps they lowered the regular loot levels to increase the drop rate of your special alchemy mat!

I'll never be convinced those even exist until I actually see one. And with this stealth nerf that's at least a year or so old, the chances of finding one, assuming they really do exist, are drastically lower now. I don't really give a shit about them anyway since the 517 updates they did last year fixed a lot of its problems.

[Neveragain]

I don't even care about the nerf, even though it is pretty stupid considering what a pain in the ass that place is in general. But to do a stealth nerf, apparently bury it way the fuck in the core system to where even Wyrom didn't know about it until he dug through a bunch of shit, and then refuse to give up any details is some amateur bullshit. Does it make them feel special or something? Otherwise what's even the point? Just be like "Hey this is how XYZ works now. L8r."

https://media.giphy.com/media/hokMyu1PAKfJK/giphy.gif

[Taernath]

Estild's always making BS statements like that when he doesn't actually know shit and typically comes across as being in love with himself and thinks he can do no wrong. I've been asking Wyrom about the Confluence for months and he was unaware of any changes until he dug around yesterday and found it in the core systems per his Discord post.

I don't get why a loot change to one area would be buried in the core systems unless Coase was trying to hide it from literally everybody (except apparently Estild) including his boss. Seems pretty shady imo, but Coase has always had a good track record as far as I know.

It's a phenomenon that seems to be common with some GMs. Maybe it's a byproduct of them being recruited directly from the player base, maybe Simu is so desperate for any kind of coding help they turn a blind eye to this stuff, or maybe some GMs just get so puffed up with self-importance they decide to act like petty kings. I dunno. I legitimately think some of them would rather to lie to your face than actually give a straight answer.


I'll never be convinced those even exist until I actually see one. And with this stealth nerf that's at least a year or so old, the chances of finding one, assuming they really do exist, are drastically lower now. I don't really give a shit about them anyway since the 517 updates they did last year fixed a lot of its problems.

You should put a bounty out on them. Give a million silver to someone who can just SHOW one to you.

[Stumplicker]

I will say this. Estild at least attempts to communicate based on changes he makes or wants to make. I will take him any day over Emeradan or Andraste or Necios.

[Alfster]

I don't understand why they are so reluctant to give out information on changes.

[Methais]

I don't understand why they are so reluctant to give out information on changes.

I've never seen anything like it in any other game where the developers pick and choose which changes they want to announce and/or give out info on. Typically in any other game, every change made to anything, even if it's some tiny bug fix that no one knew about or had no impact on anything noticeable, makes it into the patch notes.

GS doesn't actually do patch notes, but they have an announcements folder on the forums where they usually announce changes. It's retarded as fuck how there's no standards in place for how game changing info is given out and how GMs can apparently do whatever they feel like doing with no apparent accountability.

It should be mandatory for any change made to anything in game to come with an announcement post to let the players know what's going on. No one's asking for in depth formulas and shit, but a general "Confluence works like this now...blah blah blah...have a nice day." post should be a no brainer.

[Wrathbringer]

I've never seen anything like it in any other game where the developers pick and choose which changes they want to announce and/or give out info on. Typically in any other game, every change made to anything, even if it's some tiny bug fix that no one knew about or had no impact on anything noticeable, makes it into the patch notes.

GS doesn't actually do patch notes, but they have an announcements folder on the forums where they usually announce changes. It's retarded as fuck how there's no standards in place for how game changing info is given out and how GMs can apparently do whatever they feel like doing with no apparent accountability.

It should be mandatory for any change made to anything in game should require an announcement post to let the players know. No one's asking for in depth formulas and shit, but a general "Confluence works like this now...blah blah blah...have a nice day." post should be a no brainer.

Agreed, Gemstone sucks ass.

[Stumplicker]

This is why I'm focusing on my league of legends career. I'm only like 15 divisions away from going Pro!

[Donquix]

I've never seen anything like it in any other game where the developers pick and choose which changes they want to announce and/or give out info on. Typically in any other game, every change made to anything, even if it's some tiny bug fix that no one knew about or had no impact on anything noticeable, makes it into the patch notes.

GS doesn't actually do patch notes, but they have an announcements folder on the forums where they usually announce changes. It's retarded as fuck how there's no standards in place for how game changing info is given out and how GMs can apparently do whatever they feel like doing with no apparent accountability.

It should be mandatory for any change made to anything in game to come with an announcement post to let the players know what's going on. No one's asking for in depth formulas and shit, but a general "Confluence works like this now...blah blah blah...have a nice day." post should be a no brainer.

Make sure you bring up how it's fucking ridiculous that there's no real strategy or direction at all. Wyrom loves that. You're a product manager that doesn't manage the product. What is it ya say you do here, Milton? Er, Mario?

[Methais]

Make sure you bring up how it's fucking ridiculous that there's no real strategy or direction at all. Wyrom loves that. You're a product manager that doesn't manage the product. What is it ya say you do here, Milton? Er, Mario?

I don't have a problem with Wyrom. It's mainly the dev GMs that want to be all secretive so they can I guess feel special. Why burying a stealth nerf way the fuck like that would make anyone feel special I have no idea, but logic has never been Simu's strength when it comes to making changes to the game, regardless of who the PM is at the time. Though if Wyrom were to make it mandatory to document any and every mechanics change for the players to see, I can't see how that could ever be a bad thing.

[Stumplicker]

I don't want to shock anybody by saying this, but...I have a problem with Wyrom.

[Donquix]

I don't have a problem with Wyrom. It's mainly the dev GMs that want to be all secretive so they can I guess feel special. Why burying a stealth nerf way the fuck like that would make anyone feel special I have no idea, but logic has never been Simu's strength when it comes to making changes to the game, regardless of who the PM is at the time. Though if Wyrom were to make it mandatory to document any and every mechanics change for the players to see, I can't see how that could ever be a bad thing.

It's both. The GMs have no structure. They get to do whatever they want because they don't get paid so it's a hobby. They make their little fiefdom and run with it. Which is whatever, i get it from their perspective (not that being shitheads about it is ever fine). But I have more of a problem with the paid dude who is supposed to be herding the cats having no idea what's happening. Like some kind of core systems change that affects one of the handful of endgame hunting areas and it's not even on his radar.

like....what? If you aren't going to assign work, at least know what's being worked on. There just plain isn't enough dev work ever being done on gemstone at any given time that tracking it should be tough. "like oh fuck, tim are you still working on XXX system you started in 2006? ok cool, thanks"

[Astray]

The entirety of management is fucking worthless. I swear, you could run a fucking cleaver through the company and you'd mostly be removing the tubs of waste that is management.

[Methais]

It's both. The GMs have no structure. They get to do whatever they want because they don't get paid so it's a hobby. They make their little fiefdom and run with it. Which is whatever, i get it from their perspective (not that being shitheads about it is ever fine). But I have more of a problem with the paid dude who is supposed to be herding the cats having no idea what's happening. Like some kind of core systems change that affects one of the handful of endgame hunting areas and it's not even on his radar.

like....what? If you aren't going to assign work, at least know what's being worked on. There just plain isn't enough dev work ever being done on gemstone at any given time that tracking it should be tough. "like oh fuck, tim are you still working on XXX system you started in 2006? ok cool, thanks"

It sounded more to me like Coase decided to do the nerf and then bury the code for it somewhere it shouldn't be in hopes that no one would find/discover it, paired with hopes that people would eventually stop asking what the deal is with the Confluence acting all stupid and forget about it. But Coase has always been pretty straight edge from what I understand, though I don't really know shit about him other than he's said to be some super coder, but with anything Simu I don't rule anything out.

"I'm going to stealth nerf this shit and hide it from everyone including Wyrom! I'll bury it in the core systems because that's the last place they'd expect it to be!" -Coase, maybe

[Stumplicker]

It sounded more to me like Coase decided to do the nerf and then bury the code for it somewhere it shouldn't be in hopes that no one would find/discover it, paired with hopes that people would eventually stop asking what the deal is with the Confluence acting all stupid and forget about it. But Coase has always been pretty straight edge from what I understand, though I don't really know shit about him other than he's said to be some super coder, but with anything Simu I don't rule anything out.

"I'm going to stealth nerf this shit and hide it from everyone including Wyrom! I'll bury it in the core systems because that's the last place they'd expect it to be!" -Coase, maybe

You seem far too blasé about your disapproval for the staff. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. TURN THAT SHIT UP TO ELEVEN.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/67264445.jpg

[AnOrdim]

Make sure you bring up how it's fucking ridiculous that there's no real strategy or direction at all. Wyrom loves that. You're a product manager that doesn't manage the product. What is it ya say you do here, Milton? Er, Mario?

This worked well for me in the past!

[Stumplicker]

Multiple death threats in one post. You're really setting the bar high.

Somebody take this guy to the mall and get him so new clothes, then see if he can swim.

[Astray]

Multiple death threats in one post. You're really setting the bar high.

I'll threaten you with death, punk!

[Merzbow]

It sounded more to me like Coase decided to do the nerf and then bury the code for it somewhere it shouldn't be in hopes that no one would find/discover it, paired with hopes that people would eventually stop asking what the deal is with the Confluence acting all stupid and forget about it. But Coase has always been pretty straight edge from what I understand, though I don't really know shit about him other than he's said to be some super coder, but with anything Simu I don't rule anything out.

"I'm going to stealth nerf this shit and hide it from everyone including Wyrom! I'll bury it in the core systems because that's the last place they'd expect it to be!" -Coase, maybe

Well if the aim of the stealth nerf was the stop the runaway devaluation of silvers, it's not working, since they are now regularly below 4 per for the first time. :(

[Alastir]

Well if the aim of the stealth nerf was the stop the runaway devaluation of silvers, it's not working, since they are now regularly below 4 per for the first time. :(

I think they did it just to piss off Methais.

[Wrathbringer]

I think they did it just to piss off Methais.

Me too. They should have been up front about the change though.

[Wrathbringer]

Well if the aim of the stealth nerf was the stop the runaway devaluation of silvers, it's not working, since they are now regularly below 4 per for the first time. :(

Nah, they don't care about that anymore. This is the final phase money grab. Longevity of the game and its silvers economy no longer factor into their decision making at this point. At all. Haven't for a few years now. Since Wyrom basically.

[Methais]

Well if the aim of the stealth nerf was the stop the runaway devaluation of silvers, it's not working, since they are now regularly below 4 per for the first time. :(

Prices always turn to shit when DR comes around because people are retarded and turn into crackheads pawning all their shit for lowball prices when DR is active, then they bounce back shortly after until the next DR turns people into crackheads again, etc. So far anyway.

If/when silvers do become worthless though, Wyrom will probably want to update his resume and make submitting it to other places a priority, because that actually will kill the game.

[Stumplicker]

Prices always turn to shit when DR comes around because people are retarded and turn into crackheads pawning all their shit for lowball prices when DR is active, then they bounce back shortly after until the next DR turns people into crackheads again, etc. So far anyway.

If/when they do become completely worthless though, Wyrom will probably want to update his resume and start submitting it to other places, because that actually will kill the game.

As they drop further and further he'll continue to hold silver events, as he has, to give the illusion that they still have value. Just a couple of years ago, silvers spiked to $10 per before the big auction. Then to $7 per for the next big auction. Then to $6 for Coraesine whatever. He took away all big normal avenues that would take silvers out of the system to fight inflation - namely, merchant events. As soon as those were completely converted to real dollars, the fate of the in game economy was sealed.

All he can do now is what he's doing - giving false value once or twice a year by holding silver events, causing players to believe that there's still value in a currency that in truth is about as valuable as the VB. I thought players would start wising up when items started hitting a billion silvers in cost. Maybe it'll take 2 billion. It doesn't take an economist to say that it's not the right way to run the economy. If they'd wanted Mario gone for it, they'd have made him gone already.

[Neveragain]

I think they did it just to piss off Methais.

That's an excellent business strategy, going out of your way to piss off your customers.

[Wrathbringer]

Prices always turn to shit when DR comes around because people are retarded and turn into crackheads pawning all their shit for lowball prices when DR is active, then they bounce back shortly after until the next DR turns people into crackheads again, etc. So far anyway.

If/when silvers do become worthless though, Wyrom will probably want to update his resume and make submitting it to other places a priority, because that actually will kill the game.

They know this, and yet, outside of a token silver event every couple or three years, they do nothing about it. What's that tell you?

[Methais]

As they drop further and further he'll continue to hold silver events, as he has, to give the illusion that they still have value. Just a couple of years ago, silvers spiked to $10 per before the big auction. Then to $7 per for the next big auction. Then to $6 for Coraesine whatever. He took away all big normal avenues that would take silvers out of the system to fight inflation - namely, merchant events. As soon as those were completely converted to real dollars, the fate of the in game economy was sealed.

All he can do now is what he's doing - giving false value once or twice a year by holding silver events, causing players to believe that there's still value in a currency that in truth is about as valuable as the VB. I thought players would start wising up when items started hitting a billion silvers in cost. Maybe it'll take 2 billion. It doesn't take an economist to say that it's not the right way to run the economy. If they'd wanted Mario gone for it, they'd have made him gone already.

I wasn't implying that he'd get fired. I'm implying that he'll be laid off because there will be no more GS.


They know this, and yet, outside of a token silver event every couple or three years, they do nothing about it. What's that tell you?

No one ever accused Simu of not being retarded.

[Stumplicker]

Fair enough.

[Simu]

I think the whales need to disappear or quit before we can see daylight with this game. Wyrom is so hyper focued on the 1% of the population — the fucking whales — that he will not even give a glance to actual development.

The fucker is effectively running a casino at this point. Is it a coincidence Whatley hired him knowing his extensive familiarity with casino slot machines?

[Methais]

I think the whales need to disappear or quit before we can see daylight with this game. Wyrom is so hyper focued on the 1% of the population — the fucking whales — that he will not even give a glance to actual development.

The fucker is effectively running a casino at this point. Is it a coincidence Whatley hired him knowing his extensive familiarity with casino slot machines?

The problem is that if Wyrom wasn't doing it, they'd hire someone else to do it instead.

Wyrom/GS casino is just a symptom of a bigger underlying problem that has a 99% chance to be ignored by upper management in favor of short term gains at the expense of the game's long term interests.

[Astray]

I think the whales need to disappear or quit before we can see daylight with this game.

The lack of development says the whales aren't the issue. It's management, pure and simple. If all the people paying large amounts of money for events stopped, you'd see the absolute stagnation of the game. Nothing would be coming out because again...

GS 'management' are fucking awful people.

[Wrathbringer]

I think the whales need to disappear or quit before we can see daylight with this game. Wyrom is so hyper focued on the 1% of the population — the fucking whales — that he will not even give a glance to actual development.

The fucker is effectively running a casino at this point. Is it a coincidence Whatley hired him knowing his extensive familiarity with casino slot machines?

It's not so much that he's focused on the 1% as much as it is that he's focused on milking everything they can in this final cash grab phase of the game. There's no actual development because they see no future for the game. It's that simple. Anyone with half an eye open should be able to see this.

[Wrathbringer]

The lack of development says the whales aren't the issue. It's management, pure and simple. If all the people paying large amounts of money for events stopped, you'd see the absolute stagnation of the game. Nothing would be coming out because again...

GS 'management' are fucking awful people.

It's only poor management if you aren't doing it on purpose.

[Simu]

If Simu folds on GemStone. Do you ever see them at the very least handing off the code to say Tillmen so he can host it on his server that we can all chip in afew bucks for. Does anyone here see something like that come to pass?

[Wrathbringer]

If Simu folds on GemStone. Do you ever see them at the very least handing off the code to say Tillmen so he can host it on his server that we can all chip in afew bucks for. Does anyone here see something like that come to pass?

No. Now stop posting and make another handle. This one is compromised. Already.

[Stumplicker]

There's no reason to fold on Gemstone completely. It costs very little to actually keep the server up and running. They'll just run it into the ground and let it die of natural causes. I doubt they'll take the server down unless they straight up run out of subscriptions. Even Legends of Terris still exists, with a pricing model very similar to Gemstone. You can play for free up until level 35, with reduced capacity, and then you buy a subscription. And you can log in right now, and there are zero people online. Basically, if the company still exists, it doesn't cost them much more than an electricity bill to keep a computer running in a closet with its all volunteer staff while they develop shitty mobile games.

[Simu]

No. Now stop posting and make another handle. This one is compromised. Already.

https://media.tenor.com/images/7f75158940d1f4dc55b58ac9899a37bd/tenor.gif

[Astray]

It's only poor management if you aren't doing it on purpose.

I just imagine Wyrom and Whatley trying desperately to justify why they don't hire coders while pocketing a shit ton of money.

[Stumplicker]

The one upside to Gemstone being run completely into the ground is that Mario will end up out of a job. So at least there's that to look forward to.

[Simu]

There's no reason to fold on Gemstone completely. It costs very little to actually keep the server up and running. They'll just run it into the ground and let it die of natural causes. I doubt they'll take the server down unless they straight up run out of subscriptions. Even Legends of Terris still exists, with a pricing model very similar to Gemstone. You can play for free up until level 35, with reduced capacity, and then you buy a subscription. And you can log in right now, and there are zero people online. Basically, if the company still exists, it doesn't cost them much more than an electricity bill to keep a computer running in a closet with its all volunteer staff while they develop shitty mobile games.

QFT

https://media.tenor.com/images/c255291bccc474b66a3d1e0230803d68/tenor.gif

[Taernath]

The problem is that if Wyrom wasn't doing it, they'd hire someone else to do it instead.

Wyrom/GS casino is just a symptom of a bigger underlying problem that has a 99% chance to be ignored by upper management in favor of short term gains at the expense of the game's long term interests.

I don't know. We only really started to see development being pushed towards paid events when Wyrom took charge. At one point he had a bit bragging about how much he increased Simu's revenue on his LinkedIn (which I can't check to see if it's still there since you have to log in now). I don't think Wyrom is just a cog.

[Stumplicker]

I don't know. We only really started to see development being pushed towards paid events when Wyrom took charge. At one point he had a bit bragging about how much he increased Simu's revenue on his LinkedIn (which I can't check to see if it's still there since you have to log in now). I don't think Wyrom is just a cog.

Fo sheezy. He has a lot more power and sway than people give him credit for. They don't want to see him as making these decisions because he used to be a member of the community and people had some modicum of respect for him at some point. He's a living sunk cost fallacy.

[Simu]

I don't know. We only really started to see development being pushed towards paid events when Wyrom took charge. At one point he had a bit bragging about how much he increased Simu's revenue on his LinkedIn (which I can't check to see if it's still there since you have to log in now). I don't think Wyrom is just a cog.

Absou-fucking-lutely.

Wyrom’s pitch to Whatley went probably something like this:

OK Whats, listen here. There’s a shit-ton of money sloshing around in the secondary market you were never a player so you wouldn’t know. But I can triple or even quadruple your revenue no problem boss man. There’s a shit-ton of suckers playing this game swiping their mommy’s CC to re-mortgaging their house - let me try!!

[Taernath]

Fo sheezy. He has a lot more power and sway than people give him credit for. They don't want to see him as making these decisions because he used to be a member of the community and people had some modicum of respect for him at some point. He's a living sunk cost fallacy.

He has a tendency to say what he thinks people want to hear. You don't get to be the PM without drinking the kool-aid.

[Astray]

Wyrom is the ultimate jobber.

[Methais]

I don't know. We only really started to see development being pushed towards paid events when Wyrom took charge.

True, but after Stillfront took over is when they really doubled down on it IIRC. Either way, even if Wyrom quit tomorrow, whoever replaces him would just be Wyrom 2.0.


At one point he had a bit bragging about how much he increased Simu's revenue on his LinkedIn (which I can't check to see if it's still there since you have to log in now). I don't think Wyrom is just a cog.

Regardless, the whole thing is retarded and short sighted as fuck and will be the thing that finally does kill the game. Whether Wyrom's intent is to eventually put himself out of a job, who knows, but it's extremely likely to happen if they continue to wreck the silver economy.

[Methais]

Wyrom is the ultimate jobber.

https://cdn-s3.si.com/s3fs-public/styles/marquee_large_2x/public/2016/05/11/wwe-brooklyn-brawler-steve-lombardi-released.jpg

[Taernath]

Regardless, the whole thing is retarded and short sighted as fuck and will be the thing that finally does kill the game. Whether Wyrom's intent is to eventually put himself out of a job, who knows, but it's extremely likely to happen if they continue to wreck the silver economy.

I legit think nothing will kill this game short of Simu setting the server on fire. You saw that guy bragging about spending tens of thousands on GS in that other thread, right? He's not the only one. GS could probably go back to the pay-by-the-hour charges and enough people would remain for it to be profitable.

[Astray]

https://i.imgur.com/CRhKCqX.png

[Stumplicker]

Isn't jobber a wrestling term for someone who just gets put in the ring to get their ass kicked? I'm actually asking. I'm too lazy to use the google.

[Astray]

Isn't jobber a wrestling term for someone who just gets put in the ring to get their ass kicked? I'm actually asking. I'm too lazy to use the google.


one whose shortcomings makes others mediocrity look better than it actually is

I mean, it fits.

[Methais]

I legit think nothing will kill this game short of Simu setting the server on fire. You saw that guy bragging about spending tens of thousands on GS in that other thread, right? He's not the only one. GS could probably go back to the pay-by-the-hour charges and enough people would remain for it to be profitable.

I think if/when the silver economy dies, enough people will quit the game to where it's mostly only whales left. Then the whales will eventually quit because there's no one to show off their whale items to to stroke their epeens. Imagine how some idiot like Vishra would react if there were no one left to act all super impressed by her OHB dildo collection, for example.

But this game also has people stupid enough to pay a $50/mo subscription for an instance of the game that has like 4 people playing too, so you could be right.

GS has one of the dumbest player bases in the history of all things dumb.

[Donquix]

I think if/when the silver economy dies, enough people will quit the game to where it's mostly only whales left. Then the whales will eventually quit because there's no one to show off their whale items to to stroke their epeens. Imagine how some idiot like Vishra would react if there were no one left to act all super impressed by her OHB dildo collection, for example.

But this game also has people stupid enough to pay a $50/mo subscription for an instance of the game that has like 4 people playing too, so you could be right.

GS has one of the dumbest player bases in the history of all things dumb.

I don't disagree, even when i'm paying for it. Whenever i've quit eventually i'm just like "seriously...what the fuck are you doing?"

[Murrandii]

I think if/when the silver economy dies, enough people will quit the game to where it's mostly only whales left. Then the whales will eventually quit because there's no one to show off their whale items to to stroke their epeens. Imagine how some idiot like Vishra would react if there were no one left to act all super impressed by her OHB dildo collection, for example.

But this game also has people stupid enough to pay a $50/mo subscription for an instance of the game that has like 4 people playing too, so you could be right.

GS has one of the dumbest player bases in the history of all things dumb.

I mostly agree. I don't know the percentage of people making money from this game but the common point is silvers OR passing huge time with paid events to profit from it (and it's seriously a lot of dedication)

Silvers at 1.xx will kill farming and I truly fear this will kill the game mostly.

[Methais]

I mostly agree. I don't know the percentage of people making money from this game but the common point is silvers OR passing huge time with paid events to profit from it (and it's seriously a lot of dedication)

Silvers at 1.xx will kill farming and I truly fear this will kill the game mostly.

It's already on life support assuming the current 3.xx goatse prices don't bounce back after DR.

I don't really keep up with all the DR news, but people are saying that this run has literally nothing new, which seems to be what's turning BS prices to shit currently, and if BS prices go down, so do silver prices.

So not only is Simu retarded, but they're getting even lazier. Which is making them even more retarded.

[BriarFox]

Silvers are not, actually, directly tied to bloodscrip. If bloodscrip falls far enough, silvers will hit a wall or even begin to be worth more. Bloodscrip can be farmed at around $3/1k, so that's its hard baseline.

[Donquix]

Silvers are not, actually, directly tied to bloodscrip. If bloodscrip falls far enough, silvers will hit a wall or even begin to be worth more. Bloodscrip can be farmed at around $3/1k, so that's its hard baseline.

i mean people selling will do everything they can to stop them from selling for less than it costs to generate them, but on a long enough timeline if they keep releasing these duskruins with like, 2 total items people give a shit about you can only have so many people sitting on more bloodscrip then they could ever hope to spend before prices get stupid.

I don't think that will happen any time soon with bloodscrip, but i don't think the $ cost is a hard stop. Seashelllllls

I wouldn't be surprised if next dusk ruin there's a major drain (auction, etc.)