Official: 1206 Telekinesis released

[Donquix]

The Minor Mental spell Telekinesis (1206) has been released. When cast, it will hurl a specified or random object at a target to inflict damage. If no object is specified, it will attempt to find a random object on the ground to throw at the target. If outside and no valid objects can be found, random environment objects can be used (rocks, sticks, etc.) If an object is specified (via cast <object>), it will throw that object at your current TARGET or select a random creature in the room. If the object is in your hand, it will be returned after the cast. As a bolt attack, it will use your Spell Aiming skill.

Telekinesis can be optionally fueled with extra mana for more powerful attacks. You may MEDITATE TELEKINESIS [6-10] to set if you want to use 6, 7, 8, 9, or 10 mana when cast. If not set, it will default to 6.

GameMaster Estild

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Magic%20Spells%60Systems/Minor%20Mental%20Circle/thread/1887308?get_newest=true

The spell has a rather nice DF and AVD

Casting it at items doesn't change anything, only flavor.

Enjoy casting from scrolls i guess? Super happy for y'all.

https://i.imgur.com/RwG4XH3.gif

[Tgo01]

Bolt AS hunting Monks!

[Astray]

Self casting gives you a thrown weapon bonus.

PFFFT LOL.

[audioserf]

So they kept the Spell Aiming thing in there, despite having no intention of coding Savants in the foreseeable future. There isn't a big enough MEH for this. What Monk will ever use this spell to hunt? What even is the point of implementing this spell in its current form? This is like giving Wizards a spell that relies on their MOC ranks for bolt AS.

[Gelston]

When is Savants coming out? @Wyrom

[Avaia]

So they kept the Spell Aiming thing in there, despite having no intention of coding Savants in the foreseeable future. There isn't a big enough MEH for this. What Monk will ever use this spell to hunt? What even is the point of implementing this spell in its current form? This is like giving Wizards a spell that relies on their MOC ranks for bolt AS.

Seems a whole new level of WTF? Even for Simu.

"Let's code a spell that has a training requirement that the profession who has access to the spell list will never train in!"

...what thought process does it take to create an impression where that seems like a good idea?

[audioserf]

"No guys, don't you see, pures can hunt with it from SCROLLS! Totally worth it instead of just, you know, incanting a native spell!"

[Methais]

I'm sure this means that Savants--a Pure who could actually, I don't know... train in Aimed Spells...--are right around the corner, right?

Since--as a bolt spell--it's fundamentally useless to Monks under double-cap experience (and that assumes that they sink 7.5M experience into NOTHING BUT ranks of Aimed Spells)...


No, this isn't a prelude to Savants, nor the spell designed for Monks. But if Savants do get implemented, it will be a useful bolt spell for them. In the meantime and just as with most spells, more than just the native caster (Monks) can access the spell (scrolls, magical items, spell knowledge, etc).

GameMaster Estild

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Magic%20Spells%60Systems/Minor%20Mental%20Circle/view/320

Simu troll game is on point in 2018. :lol:

[audioserf]

Like outside of once or twice for novelty to truck a rolton with a smooth stone, who is going to fucking cast this spell from a scroll? They are kidding themselves. Spell Store was more legit than this spell. Jesus Christ.

[wetsand]

Completely OP, nerf incoming.

You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Telekinesis spell...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a thick frosted glass mug.
You levitate a thick frosted glass mug at a rolton!
AS: +41 vs DS: -5 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +28 = +126
... and hit for 31 points of damage!
Weapon arm mangled horribly.
The rolton collapses to the ground, emits a final bleat, and dies.

After a few moments, you summon the frosted glass mug back to your hand.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Stumplicker]

Seems a whole new level of WTF? Even for Simu.

"Let's code a spell that has a training requirement that the profession who has access to the spell list will never train in!"

...what thought process does it take to create an impression where that seems like a good idea?

1206 was initially meant to be a Savant spell, which, aside from general laziness, is why they left such an easy to implement hole open in the monk spell list for 6 years. That is, in case they wanted to change it to something else when Savants were implemented. Since Savants were officially stated as not being implemented in 2016, I had been pushing (see the mental spell list forum and the monk forum on the officials) for the spells to be implemented, 1206 included.

I made the case for 1206 that bolting was not only viable as a post cap option, but as viable a path as say, ranged weapons, thrown, or to a lesser extent (since it's built in with good costs), TWC Edged for a Monk.

With the addition of a variable cost 6-10 mana high DF bolting spell, you not only have the spirit bolting spells available, but a solid low to medium mana bolt spell available that opens up an avenue that is otherwise closed with just the completion of a single spell.

It's a solid addition to a class that many felt and feel is completely one dimensional and shoehorned into a training path.

[audioserf]

"We have implemented 550, Major Elemental Summoning. This spell draws on the caster's MOC, Dodge, and CM abilities to summon a thing. The baseline is 2x in each skill. Oh this spell isn't designed for wizards (the only class who can natively cast the 500s), we expect that warriors, monks and rogues will cast it from scrolls or maybe merchant event trinkets."

[wetsand]

You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Telekinesis spell...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a rabid squirrel.
You levitate a tightly packed ball of snow at a rabid squirrel!
AS: +24 vs DS: +7 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +87 = +156
... and hit for 69 points of damage!
Hard blow to abdomen looks painful!
The rabid squirrel twitches its tail one last time and dies.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Methais]

Completely OP, nerf incoming.

You take a deep breath and focus inward, raising a hand and quietly murmuring the words of the Telekinesis spell...
Your spell is ready.
>
You gesture at a thick frosted glass mug.
You levitate a thick frosted glass mug at a rolton!
AS: +41 vs DS: -5 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +28 = +126
... and hit for 31 points of damage!
Weapon arm mangled horribly.
The rolton collapses to the ground, emits a final bleat, and dies.

After a few moments, you summon the frosted glass mug back to your hand.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

How much water lore did you need to get that AS?

[Methais]

WTB mage rechargeable 1206 rod so I can kill things with a frumpy orange frock.

[Tgo01]

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Magic%20Spells%60Systems/Minor%20Mental%20Circle/view/320

Simu troll game is on point in 2018. :lol:

This is like a sitcom now.

Customer: "Does this mean savants are finally coming?!"

Audience: OohhhhHHHhhHHHhh!

GM: No, this isn't a prelude to Savants. You still have a better chance of witnessing the rapture first before you see Savants.

Audience: HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

Customer: But why was this spell implemented then if it isn't designed for the only class that can cast it natively?

GM: Because someone might want to cast a rather weak bolt spell via a scroll.

Audience: <laughter plus lots of clapping.>

[wetsand]

I fixskilled my monk into a new build, totally worth it. (kidding about the fixskilling.)

Magic monk(at level 78), your base skill bonuses, ranks and goals are:
Skill Name | Actual Actual
| Bonus Ranks Goals In-Game Time to Goal
Combat Maneuvers...................| 240 140 140
Physical Fitness...................| 260 160 160
Dodging............................| 260 160 160
Spell Aiming.......................| 180 80 80
Harness Power......................| 155 55 55
Mental Lore - Transformation.......| 70 15 15
Climbing...........................| 160 60 60
Swimming...........................| 140 40 40

Spell Lists
Minor Spiritual....................| 20 20

Spell Lists
Minor Mental.......................| 20 20
Training Points: 4 Phy 0 Mnt (1784 Phy converted to Mnt)

You gesture at a thick frosted glass mug.
You levitate a thick frosted glass mug at a rolton!
AS: +221 vs DS: -5 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +76 = +354
... and hit for 177 points of damage!
Hard strike to left leg breaking tendons and bone!
The rolton collapses to the ground, emits a final bleat, and dies.

After a few moments, you summon the frosted glass mug back to your hand.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[wetsand]

How much water lore did you need to get that AS?

You need a minimum of 303 ranks, which only monks are allowed to.

[Taernath]

This is gonna crash the returner market!!!1

[wetsand]

Two ways this plays out:

1) savants are released

2) simu trolling

I don't have high hopes for monks to actually use this spell, because the Minor Mental is NOT exclusive to monks, even though most spells sure seem to be coded for monks.

[Tgo01]

I don't have high hopes for monks to actually use this spell, because the Minor Mental is NOT exclusive to monks, even though most spells sure seem to be coded for monks.

Estild confirmed Savants are not coming anytime soon and also this spell isn't designed for monks. I can't even begin to wrap my mind around why they even bothered wasting resources implementing this spell then.

[wetsand]

It could be an amazing spell for monks if simu made it spell aiming or thrown weapon skill.

[Donquix]

Discord chat with people defending a design decision where the only class that can learn a spell can't use it is the best. Simu Stockholm syndrome is so great.

ItS NoT a MoNK SpeL GaIs. ItS JuST OnLY MonKs CaN LrN It. NOt tHE SAmE

[Tgo01]

Discord chat with people defending a design decision where the only class that can learn a spell can't use it is the best. Simu Stockholm syndrome is so great.

ItS NoT a MoNK SpeL GaIs. ItS JuST OnLY MonKs CaN LrN It. NOt tHE SAmE

Hey you better start falling in line and fast!

[Astray]

Put on your tinfoil hats! We going on an adventure!

Simutronics is actively working on the Savant class but because they care about balance they are doing changes to spells and classes and lore before implementing them. Sorcerers were brought up to speed with how powerful Savants are going to be, Wizards now tie into it because a Savant can perform a mind meld and give you boosts to lores.

I know, sounds crazy. That's why it will never happen.

[Taernath]

Put on your tinfoil hats! We going on an adventure!

Simutronics is actively working on the Savant class but because they care about balance they are doing changes to spells and classes and lore before implementing them. Sorcerers were brought up to speed with how powerful Savants are going to be, Wizards now tie into it because a Savant can perform a mind meld and give you boosts to lores.

I know, sounds crazy. That's why it will never happen.

Occam's Razor indicates the explanation with the fewest assumptions is usually the correct one. Right now you're assuming that a) they're working on savants, b) they have an actual idea of how classes should be balanced, and c) they'd buff wizards.

I think it's more likely that this is a lead up to another wizard nerf.

[Donquix]

real answer: it's low hanging fruit that's mostly a cut and paste of every other bolt spell in the game, but it's kinda neat conceptually. Further, Developers (of all sources, not just gemstone) are generally 'spergs and the concept that "hey maybe people will be frustrated that this spell that is unavailable or useless to 99% of will not be met with much fanfare" isn't something they can empathize with.

[Tgo01]

I think it's more likely that this is a lead up to another wizard nerf.

Pretty brilliant strategy on Simu's part.

Simu: Here's a new Monk spell, guys!
Players: But that spell sucks.
Simu: We've heard your feedback and we understand. Clearly in comparison to wizard spells this spell sucks. Therefore we are nerfing wizard spells.

[Astray]

Occam's Razor indicates the explanation with the fewest assumptions is usually the correct one. Right now you're assuming that a) they're working on savants, b) they have an actual idea of how classes should be balanced, and c) they'd buff wizards.

I think it's more likely that this is a lead up to another wizard nerf.

I know, that's why I had on my tinfoil hat.

[Taernath]

I know, that's why I had on my tinfoil hat.

My b, I should have said "your explanation is assuming..." rather than "you're assuming...". I know you already know how Simu operates.

[Astray]

My b, I should have said "your explanation is assuming..." rather than "you're assuming...". I know you already know how Simu operates.

S'aight.

[Avaia]

Put on your tinfoil hats! We going on an adventure!

Simutronics is actively working on the Savant class but because they care about balance they are doing changes to spells and classes and lore before implementing them. Sorcerers were brought up to speed with how powerful Savants are going to be, Wizards now tie into it because a Savant can perform a mind meld and give you boosts to lores.

I know, sounds crazy. That's why it will never happen.

Yep. Estild is really trolling us saying Savants will never happen, and somehow the Savant release is tied into this 3-city storyline that is currently ongoing because Wehnimers Landing already has this massively powerful half-Ithzir child mentalist that lives up on Melgorehns Reach and....



...nope.

[Astray]

Yep. Estild is really trolling us saying Savants will never happen, and somehow the Savant release is tied into this 3-city storyline that is currently ongoing because Wehnimers Landing already has this massively powerful half-Ithzir child mentalist that lives up on Melgorehns Reach and....



...nope.

I mean, hey cool if suddenly they drop Savants, I'll definitely sign back up. I mean, it's gotta be worth all the wait like monks, amirite?

[Maerit]

Make an empath. Get 1206 SK item. Train brawling. Use a brawling weapon in your main hand for parry bonus. 1206 brawling weapon! You can now hurl better than most people who train in thrown weapons! Of course it will cost just as much as a bandolier or returning hurling weapon to buy a 1206 SK item.

Will be interesting to see how it interacts with 240.

[Donquix]

I think the suggestion someone made of having it use spell aim or thrown is a pretty good one, but it will never be implemented because IT"S OK DUDES ITS ON SCROLLS AND SAVANTS ONE DAY IT"S NOT EVEN A MONK SPELL AMIRITE?

Even if they did something like also require some spellaim. i.e. if thrown skill > spell aim make it a real hurled attack, but AS from thrown skill as a percent of spell aim skill bonus. so you'd need >= 24 spell aim ranks to get 100% of your thrown skill AS when using it.

That's still a huge investment for monks but least lets someone use it rather than this completely disconnected from reality developing the spell in a vacuum which itself is inside fantasyland where savants will actually exist some day.

[Hymore246]

This... might just be the most mind boggling thing I've ever seen the GMs do. Announcing a bolt spell for a profession that doesn't (and probably will never) exist and slapping it on monks, a profession that can't even use it. If I was still playing, I post in the topic and ask why. Why? Why even put forth the effort at all? What is the point? What are you trying to do?

Worse yet, Telekinesis is just a bolt spell. Telekinesis is one of the most widely used and versatile abilities in all of fiction. Star Wars, AD&D, Pokemon, Elder Scrolls all have some form of Telekinesis. My Little Pony has it for fucks sake! There are NUMEROUS uses for this spell if you stop to think about it. Here is a few off the top my head:

- Cast it on an item on the ground to stow it in a container when your hands are full. Spell will work if the container is closed and will close the container again after stowing it.
- Self-cast to allow you to mentally "push" melee and bolt attacks away from you, increasing your DS.
- Pick up and hold a single item in the air for set period of time. Hovers around like a disk. It could have a weight limit like Phase does and you could grab it whenever you needed it. Useful for cursed crap.
- Mentally drag stuff. Gnome needs to drag a giantman? No problem!
- Self-cast to prevent being disarmed. If you are disarmed while the spell is active, you mentally grab and return the item to your hand. The spell will only do this a few times before expiring.
- Telekinetic Disarm a foe. GIVE ME BACK MY WEAPON YOU JACKASS!
- Alternatively, instead of bringing it to your hand, you make an attack against that creature with it's own weapon before dropping the weapon on the ground.

There, that wasn't that hard. The LEAST they could do for monks is to give it some alternative function. Or, why not give 1206 the same treatment as the old 605, Tracking? Swap it with one of the spells from Major Mental or Savant Base so monks can at least use the new spell. This spell is as useful now as it was before they implemented it.

I'd loved to see Savants, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I'll believe it when I see it.

[BriarFox]

My guess is that Estild coded this spell primarily so it could be released as an X/day item at the next Duskruin.

[mgoddess]

My guess is that Estild coded this spell primarily so it could be released as an X/day item at the next Duskruin.

Or, for the sigil staves that are coming out (at EG?)...

[Androidpk]

Sigil staves?

[Hymore246]

Ok, new plan. We somehow get simu to implement all the spells in the Major Mental and Savant Base circles as scrolls, wands, and imbeds as festival content. Everyone will rush to buy the new spells and simu will make lots of money. Simu will eventually release Savants because they already made most of it when selling stuff at the festivals. They can throw a big celebration, players get Savants and everyone will be happy.

[Fortybox]

Simu has gone to a whole new level of retarded with this. WTF?

Monks are broken and they give them a spell that won't be used. Seriously, so triggered here.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l3q2WvjILSSmV5ui4/giphy.gif

[Taernath]

Ok, new plan. We somehow get simu to implement all the spells in the Major Mental and Savant Base circles as scrolls, wands, and imbeds as festival content. Everyone will rush to buy the new spells and simu will make lots of money. Simu will eventually release Savants because they already made most of it when selling stuff at the festivals. They can throw a big celebration, players get Savants and everyone will be happy.

Only problem is any profit GS makes gets tossed in the mobile game dev pit.

Best case scenario is this may be preparation to swap out empath's major spirit circle with minor mental, but that is still likely years off.

[Maerit]

Only problem is any profit GS makes gets tossed in the mobile game dev pit.

Best case scenario is this may be preparation to swap out empath's major spirit circle with minor mental, but that is still likely years off.

240 is better than all of the MnM circle combined. Doubtful that empaths would be excited to lose that.

[Enuch]

Finally wizards have a powerful bolting spell

[Methais]

GMs realized they can pad their monthly paychecks by selling this as a SK imbed or item at the next event, plain and simple.

It would actually make *more* sense for this spell to use thrown weapons than spell aiming because you’re aiming/hurling an object not a spell.

If this ends up being what happens that will be the shittiest move Simu has ever pulled. And they've pulled some really shady shit over the years.

"We don't balance things around Duskruin. But we never said anything about creating entirely new spells that will be useless for the only class that can use it natively for cash grab purposes."


Is it just me or does Estild just not want us to have any nice things ever?

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Wizards/Major%20Elemental%20Circle/view/2896

Not to hijack another thread into wizard stuff, but check out Estild's massively retarded non-response:


The 517 core buff was announced on April 1. We thought it was an April Fools' joke, turns out it wasn't.

I don't remember when the "iridescent" part was added to make those cores stand out, but it was shortly after.

Up until recently, I was opening on average 200 cores per day. Some days more, some days less.

Confluence loot seems to have slowed down recently (Confluence loot doesn't work like normal loot, even though no one will confirm this. I can elaborate if someone wants, but it's not really relevant to this post), so I'd estimate on average 100 plinites a day since then. To keep the math simple, I'll apply an average of 150 plinites since April 1.

April 1 was 160 days ago.

160 days x 150 plinites = 24,000 plinites

Number of iridescents found: 0

Taking into account that before the "iridescent" part was added, I suppose I could have been inadvertently selling these cores to the vendor as "a faintly glowing core." I don't remember when the description was updated, but it was sometime in April I'm pretty sure. So to be generous, we'll just cut April out of the equation altogether and start from May 1.

May 1 was 130 days ago.

130 days x 150 plinites = 19,500 cores

Number of iridescent cores found: 0

Super generous super lowball numbers since May 1:

130 days x 100 plinites = 13,000 cores

Number of iridescents found: 0


High end @ 200 per day since April 1:

160 x 200 = 32,000 cores

Numbers of iridescents found: 0


The capped ranger in plat I spoke with recently, who is pretty much the only Confluence hunter in Plat, is having the same experience with numbers very similar to mine and has also found 0 iridescent cores since they've existed.

In unrelated news, I'm already seeing multiple sale threads for those "super rare" foraging mushrooms that came out last month. Yes it's apples and oranges. But it also isn't. But it is, but isn't. And stuff.

Anyway, just thought I would post some numbers.



In unrelated news, I'm already seeing multiple sale threads for those "super rare" foraging mushrooms that came out last month. Yes it's apples and oranges. But it also isn't. But it is, but isn't. And stuff.

Who claimed the mushroom was going to be "super rare"? It's not. The iridescent core is. They each offer different benefits, so naturally, their drop rate is not going to be the same.

GameMaster Estild


>Who claimed the mushroom was going to be "super rare"? It's not. The iridescent core is. They each offer different benefits, so naturally, their drop rate is not going to be the same.

>GameMaster Estild

Oh my bad, you said "rare" and not "super rare."

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Rangers/Ranger%20Spells/view/608

>It is now possible for Resist Nature (620) to work on heavy armors (chain and plate), but it requires a new special potion. The herbalist who crafts the other potions will craft the new potion if you bring them a luminescent indigo mushroom, which can be found randomly on high luck rolls when foraging for other items. It is a rare and limited drop. The luminescent indigo mushroom potion must then be poured onto the armor before the other normal potion is applied. When Resist Nature is applied to heavy armors, it is done so at half of the normal effectiveness.

>GameMaster Estild





However, it turns out I was also remembering incorrectly about the cores being "super rare" instead of just "rare" as well:

>Infuriated by the rising costs of reagents and enchanting materials, wizard guild masters at the local Wehnimer's branch took to the streets to vent their frustrations. The protest turned violent when merchant guild representatives hit the streets to silence and mock the mages who might cut into their profits. Chaos ensued as the mages lost their tempers and unleashed fire and fury on the snooty merchants and their wagons. At day's end, many a merchant was battered and bruised from staff and book, and at least two wagons were reduced to ash. Several wizards were seen running away from the scene carrying bags of loot and merchandise. The local constable has been dispatched to track down the stolen merchandise, but admits the chances of recovery are slim. When asked the total loss of goods suffered in the incident, the merchant's guild representative responded, "the goods are easily replaced, but the recharge trade secrets, RECHARGE TRADE SECRETS are gone!" before rushing off in tears.



>There now exist wizard master level "rodyn" potions that will convert any magic item into mage rechargeable items for a small window of time (60 seconds). During this time a wizard may use an orb prepared with 517 to charge the item using the same rules that GM-Merchant characters use for charging items. Meaning no chance of failure (assuming the item hasn't deteriorated to the point of not being chargable verifiable via merchant messaging on 405) and much lower mana costs (1 mana per charge) than traditional mage charging. Creation of this potion will require a high-level and rare ingredient, but will produce a potion with 5 pours, allowing upwards of 200 charges from a single non-rechargeable item at nominal risk.

>Viduus

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Wizards/Announcements/view/46

My apologies for the confusion. But thank you for helping me realize that cores are supposed to be just "rare" and not "super rare" like I was incorrectly remembering.

An entire post documenting all kinds of numbers, and the only part he responds to is the part that starts with "In unrelated news..."

Confirmed Estild wants monks to be wizards.

[Gelston]

240 is better than all of the MnM circle combined. Doubtful that empaths would be excited to lose that.

240 didn't exist yet, they were all worried about losing 225. If the plan had stayed to have Empaths getting MnM, the spell circle would be a bit different from what it is now.

[Donquix]

Can you imagine being a dev for any other game in the world and proposing the equivalent of this in a meeting. Like sitting at blizzard HQ

<scene, blizzard HQ>
"yeah so i have an idea for a new spell, where you use your mind to throw a rock at stuff"
"oh that's cool"
"yeah the damage would be bassed off of your intelligence stat and spell damage"
"makes sense"
"i'm going to give it to rogues"
"...wait what? you mean wizards?"
"no, for rogues. See it's this new set of spells that rogues and the new class we're working on can use"
"...but rogues can't use it"
"yeah but it's in this set of spells that rogues and the new class can, and the new class should be out but i dunno, 2037 or something"
"....ok yeah man, go for it"

[audioserf]

I'd trade 225 tomorrow for 1213 as an empath.

Losing 211/215/218/219 is more of a concern, plus as was stated, 240.

[Gelston]

I'd trade 225 tomorrow for 1213 as an empath.

Losing 211/215/218/219 is more of a concern, plus as was stated, 240.

Biggest argument I heard was 225. They couldn't be "rescuers" anymore. There was supposedly a "reverse fog" that was going to be put into MnM, but the bitching was such epic proportions that they just dropped it. Who knows how different the MnM would be today if Empaths got it and lost MjS. You might not even be worried about the things lost, but rather, how awesome the things gained were. Everyone was retardedly short sighted.

[khorpulent]

My guess is that Estild coded this spell primarily so it could be released as an X/day item at the next Duskruin.

This is the only possible explanation.

[Hymore246]

Isn't Minor Mental considered to be the worst spell circle in the game? I can't image any profession would be happy to make a trade for it.


Estild seems like he is very controlling and thinks he knows better than the players. Further, I don't think he feels like he needs to explain himself or his actions either. I remember watching the last simucon and their was a Q&A session with Estild and two other GMs. Estild answered EVERY question before the other two could even open their mouths. Those other GMs never got the chance to answer any of the questions. Estild's answer to every question was almost always "It's possible" or some variation of that. Nothing really got answered and the entire Q&A was really crappy because of that. In fact, I remember another person lampshading the whole thing by offering a round of applause for the other two GMs for being good sports during the whole thing.

[Gelston]

Isn't Minor Mental considered to be the worst spell circle in the game? I can't image any profession would be happy to make a trade for it.


Estild seems like he is very controlling and thinks he knows better than the players. Further, I don't think he feels like he needs to explain himself or his actions either. I remember watching the last simucon and their was a Q&A session with Estild and two other GMs. Estild answered EVERY question before the other two could even open their mouths. Those other GMs never got the chance to answer any of the questions. Estild's answer to every question was almost always "It's possible" or some variation of that. Nothing really got answered and the entire Q&A was really crappy because of that. In fact, I remember another person lampshading the whole thing by offering a round of applause for the other two GMs for being good sports during the whole thing.

Again, the MnM we have now isn't what it would have been if Empaths had gotten it.

[Taernath]

240 is better than all of the MnM circle combined. Doubtful that empaths would be excited to lose that.

Yeah there still needs to be further balancing, swapping, or inventing needed to switch MjS with MnM. 240, 225, the +AS spells, etc. like everyone else is bringing up. 1206 might just be the first step. It's the only thing that makes logical sense to me, unless they're going with the 'use this spell to push DR' thing which is also possible.

[Gelston]

Yeah there still needs to be further balancing, swapping, or inventing needed to switch MjS with MnM. 240, 225, the +AS spells, etc. like everyone else is bringing up. 1206 might just be the first step. It's the only thing that makes logical sense to me, unless they're going with the 'use this spell to push DR' thing which is also possible.

They aren't swapping it. This was what they were planning on doing before the MnM was even fully created. So, they current MnM isn't created with empaths in mind at all. If they had kept their original plans, it would have been created with empaths in mind.

[audioserf]

You don't have a spell like 1209 (Dragonclaw) in MnM if you intend for Empaths to use it. That spell and a bunch of others clearly make MnM the offbrand Monk circle, even though they copped out on making a Monk circle. I don't think they ever plan to do the MjS->MnM swap for Empaths. That ship sailed without anyone on it. Now MnM is a bastardized combination of a Monk circle and a "some day a pure class will use this, we swear!" list and boom you have a spell for Monks that requires Spell Aiming.

SIMUTRONICS!

[Gelston]

You don't have a spell like 1209 (Dragonclaw) in MnM if you intend for Empaths to use it. That spell and a bunch of others clearly make MnM the offbrand Monk circle, even though they copped out on making a Monk circle. I don't think they ever plan to do the MjS->MnM swap for Empaths. That ship sailed without anyone on it. Now MnM is a bastardized combination of a Monk circle and a "some day a pure class will use this, we swear!" list and boom you have a spell for Monks that requires Spell Aiming.

SIMUTRONICS!

Dude, they aren't. This was the original idea, years aog, before the current list of spells was created. They were going to swap it when monks released. That ship has sailed.

[Astray]

Could this be another QC thing? "Oh man that spell makes thrown insane, hold up till we can tweak it."

Because if so, QC needs to be replaced. Whoever is working it clearly has dementia.

[Taernath]

They aren't swapping it. This was what they were planning on doing before the MnM was even fully created. So, they current MnM isn't created with empaths in mind at all. If they had kept their original plans, it would have been created with empaths in mind.

My understanding was they were still planning on giving empaths MnM, and was part of the reason they added 'mental' flavor messaging to empath base when they were revamped. Are you saying that's no longer the case? If so, do you have a link to a post?


Dude, they aren't. This was the original idea, years aog, before the current list of spells was created. They were going to swap it when monks released. That ship has sailed.

Monks were released 6 years ago, the empath revamp was maybe 5 before that. Simu ships sail on fucked up schedules and it's well within Simu character to take 10+ years to actually develop a system.

[Maerit]

I'd trade 225 tomorrow for 1213 as an empath.

Losing 211/215/218/219 is more of a concern, plus as was stated, 240.

215, yes, but the other three I think would be less important for empaths.

211 is easy to find, but also I envision with MnM empaths would actually be good at Unarmed Combat instead of using a weapon, so 1209 would replace 211 in this case for melee combat (but not for bolt spells).

1204, 1208 and 1220 would replace 219 - You would actually gain DS and TD with MnM when compared with MjS. You can tack on 1216 for even more DS if you want, but I imagine the preference would be to use 1213 and be in GoS for insane amounts of societal synergy.

218 would likely be less important as I believe empaths would probably move toward a more "hands free" combat style. While runestaff DS could potentially be higher, MnM actually offers quite a bit more DS than MjS does, and would make being open-handed much easier - allowing empaths to channel their spells with empty hands, and not worrying about being disarmed. Plus, you'd have 1214 to make it so you can parry with empty hands as well.

This would make 240 the most painful loss, but 215 also hard, and the utility of 225 as well with no replacement. It would be kind of cool for an empath that didn't like to look all scarred and beat up to have access to a (functioning) version of 1212 allowing them to conceal their injuries behind a shroud. Being able to use 1206, 1210/1110, 1219, and 1225 would be cool (of course 1225 needs to be implemented still), as Monks are still not able to use these. 1211 sounds kind of cool, but not sure really - as it would be kind of interesting in combination with 1117.

But still, 240 would be too hard to lose at this point as capped empaths are incredibly powerful when 240 is running - without it they're fine, but not great.

Frankly, an empath with MnM vs MjS would be a beast that was incredibly hard to kill provided they went the GoS route. They'd have insane mana potency with sigil of power, 1107 & 1213. They'd be incredibly durable with 3x PF, crit padding from sigils, all the healing powers, troll's blood, 1202 (brig armor with no hindrance), and whatnot along with not needing to hold a weapon due to 1214 + brawling. They'd have 115 and 1215 to have extra rolls to avoid both physical and magical attacks. Their primary problem would be offense, and they'd likely have to rely more on warding (CS) attacks vs bolting or physical (AS) attacks due to the lack of attack strength modifiers in their arsenal. Though, their offensive spell list would grow substantially. Hopefully 1225 would be the method of overcoming your enemy by effectively reducing their level (and DS) in order to bolster your attacks - but that's an expensive spell...

[audioserf]

1211 is pointless because it's a single target 1120. 1120 smashes it in every way.

1202 with a ton of Transformation lore would make empaths tanky but there suddenly would be a shortage of quality robes in game (there already is, really), lol. 1213 with lore and some stamina enhancives would be as close to infinite mana as can ever exist with GOS and 1107.

Interesting to consider but still - I'm firmly in the camp that they aren't going to do it. It's too late in the game to uproot a class like that (cue the 'lol wizards' example, but this isn't quite the same).

[Donquix]

I don't even know if 1201 is an upgrade over 1101. I guess because you could cast it on things without blood but yeah...that spell is basically 1700 for 1 mana.

[Maerit]

I don't even know if 1201 is an upgrade over 1101. I guess because you could cast it on things without blood but yeah...that spell is basically 1700 for 1 mana.

Just slightly better than 1700 because of the damage modifiers, no hard RT, and probably not damage capped.

MnM would just make an empath an unkillable tank IMO with reduced damage output. It seems MjS offers a lot of attack powers, while MnM actually provides a sizable amount of defense.

+40 TD from 1208 (at cap)
+10 DS from 1204
+60 DS from 1220 (at cap)
+30 DS from 1216 (optional)
1214 - Ability to parry with your bare hands which also has a high % chance to disarm the target when you successfully parry
1215 - 25% chance to avoid (base) physical attacks

Compared with MjS:
+43 DS from 202 (at cap)
+30 DS from 219
+30 TD from 219
Bonus to SmR defense (215)
Bonus to avoid Webs (209)
Defense against environmental attacks (207)

[Donquix]

the TD is SLIGHTLY misleading being mental, which isn't all that common, versus getting spiritual TD but it's a wash really.

also don't forget losing 230. comparing playing my casters with major circles to mine that either have no dispel or only minors, i actually REALLY miss 230 / 530 on some things, typically grizzled bounties but like GoS shaman, etc. too.

But honestly I don't beget people not wanting to lose MnS. People have had these characters for years and that's a major change. I get the pushback, even if I personally think it would have been the better choice.

Not making monks real semis, when they still just are semis in practice, was and continues to be a real dumbfuck choice though.

[BigWorm]

It's the Minor Mental circle, not the Monk profession list. I think it is fine to use some of the minor mental slots kind of like the Arcane spell list. The minor vs profession circle actually works in your favor for lore effects on non-native activation.

[Stumplicker]

It's the Minor Mental circle, not the Monk profession list. I think it is fine to use some of the minor mental slots kind of like the Arcane spell list. The minor vs profession circle actually works in your favor for lore effects on non-native activation.

The arcane spell list is perfectly fine for spells in the arcane spell list.

Only one profession has the Minor Mental circle, and no other profession is planned to get it.

[Stunseed]

The arcane spell list is perfectly fine for spells in the arcane spell list.

Only one profession has the Minor Mental circle, and no other profession is planned to get it.

I know more than a few Rogues who would enjoy MnM instead of MnS. It's not too out in bizarro world to consider more than one profession eventually getting it.

Also, nothing is more OP than killing someone ala "The Freshmaker" :

You gesture at a spearmint leaf.
You levitate a spearmint leaf at a sea nymph!
AS: +125 vs DS: -43 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +27 = +247
... and hit for 113 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the sea nymph's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The sea nymph screams one last time and dies.
The guiding force leaves you.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

[Androidpk]

Now you can kill using death rum and bacon!

[Donquix]

Now you can kill using death rum and bacon!

That's part of how you make death rum, before that it's just rum.

Bacon always kills, just usually via heart disease.

[Fortybox]

What a waste of dev time. Estild could be ruining other spells and professions right now.

[caelric]

This is clearly a prelude to giving MnM to Sorcs without taking anything away...

[Stumplicker]

I know more than a few Rogues who would enjoy MnM instead of MnS. It's not too out in bizarro world to consider more than one profession eventually getting it.

Also, nothing is more OP than killing someone ala "The Freshmaker" :

You gesture at a spearmint leaf.
You levitate a spearmint leaf at a sea nymph!
AS: +125 vs DS: -43 with AvD: +52 + d100 roll: +27 = +247
... and hit for 113 points of damage!
Solid strike caves the sea nymph's skull in, resulting in instant death!
The sea nymph screams one last time and dies.
The guiding force leaves you.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

I'm sure with 70-80% of the non-pure playerbase using brawling at this point a number of professions wouldn't mind having it, but the only ones with at least a partial claim to it is Empaths, since they were promised a change years ago and also have somewhat mental oriented skills. Not to mention, logic is our primary casting stat with mental, so I mean..come on now. Who wouldn't want that? Everybody maxes out their logic for exp gain anyway.

I'd also like to add that the 95% of you here (Donquix excepted) bitching about this spell's implementation have never played a Monk to a significant level, or likely at all, so bitch about something else. Finally rounding out the minor mental spell list is something to complain about? Really? It's been 6 years.

And yes, Monks do have a use for it. It'd primarily be useful late rather than early, but there is a use. If you'd be interested in finding out what that is, I implore you to play a monk. They're quite fun.

[khorpulent]

Monks have no use for this spell. They are squares who can only 1x in spell aiming and have no native spells that boost bolt AS other than 117.

[Stumplicker]

Monks have a situational use for this spell.

I fixed that for you. A high level monk will about 65-70% of the time kill its target with the first MSTRIKE. In the 30-35% event that you haven't killed your target, you are virtually guaranteed to be left with a stunned, offensive opponent lying on the ground. Your options are:

1) Mstrike again, spending stamina that's a resource at a premium for your playstyle and taking 5-7 seconds depending on agidex,
2) Aim head and punch, taking 4 seconds or aim abdomen and kick taking 5 seconds and itself giving about a 70% chance to hit your target first try with 30 ranks of open ambushing.

Both of these options take 4-7 seconds of hard RT. But 1x spell aim is more than enough to hit a stunned, prone, offensive opponent with a bolt spell whose DF is very solid, which only takes 3 seconds of soft RT, saving you potentially 5-7 seconds and 50 stamina at a cost of a resource you weren't using for your hunt anyway.

[Hymore246]

Spell Aiming for a Monk costs 5/20. It's impractical to keep it at 1x without sacrificing other skills. Also, your AS will not be high enough at 1x to guarantee a kill, even with a stunned, grounded enemy. An aimed punch or kick is better since you have a better shot at killing with it with a crit to the right body part.

You don't need to play a monk to see the problem with this spell. 1206 for monks is like 111 for rogues and warriors. How often do you see a square use 111 to kill stuff?

[Stunseed]

< I'm sure with 70-80% of the non-pure playerbase using brawling at this point a number of professions wouldn't mind having it, but the only ones with at least a partial claim to it is Empaths, since they were promised a change years ago and also have somewhat mental oriented skills. Not to mention, logic is our primary casting stat with mental, so I mean..come on now. Who wouldn't want that? Everybody maxes out their logic for exp gain anyway. >

I'd argue that Bards could also be considered for MnM, but I'm not strong enough on either side to be met with your counter-argument.

< I'd also like to add that the 95% of you here (Donquix excepted) bitching about this spell's implementation have never played a Monk to a significant level, or likely at all, so bitch about something else >

I can't speak for anyone else, but you would be horribly mistaken lumping me into that generalization. I'm not anti-Monk, merely subjective in that MnM could easily be seen as better aligned to other professions as well.

[Gelston]

Imagine if 1202 didn't count sonic armor as armor and they both stacked and you had super brigandine or whatever.

[Methais]

And yes, Monks do have a use for it. It'd primarily be useful late rather than early, but there is a use. If you'd be interested in finding out what that is, I implore you to play a monk. They're quite fun.

A level 6 spell that you can't use until high level/cap is retarded no matter how it's spun.

[Astray]

A level 6 spell that you can't use until high level/cap is retarded no matter how it's spun.

This is why Wyrom doesn't hire people, we can't appreciate anything they do and they quit after seeing how ungrateful we are.

Reminder that Wyrom is a huge faggot.

[Stumplicker]

Spell Aiming for a Monk costs 5/20. It's impractical to keep it at 1x without sacrificing other skills. Also, your AS will not be high enough at 1x to guarantee a kill, even with a stunned, grounded enemy. An aimed punch or kick is better since you have a better shot at killing with it with a crit to the right body part.

You don't need to play a monk to see the problem with this spell. 1206 for monks is like 111 for rogues and warriors. How often do you see a square use 111 to kill stuff?

Impractical yes. Situational, yes, but as a post cap goal, it's absolutely useful to me. And don't get me wrong, I'd absolutely start campaigning for monks to be able to 2x spell aim at this point, because why not? I campaign for monks to get whatever the fuck. But the difference between 1x and 2x at 100 is 100 AS for bolting.

Stunned, prone opponents off the top of my head negate what, 60 of that? 40 for prone, 20 for stunned, something like that anyway? A capped monk will have at least 110 dexterity. I had 116 (bumped me up an agidex level). That negates another say, 8 compared to a wizard who bolts at something standing up that isn't stunned, as they are wont to do. So we're talking about a deficit of 32 bolt AS compared to a wizard using it the way they use it.

So what, I'm a capped monk in robes that protect like chain hauberk that mstrikes 7 attacks in 5 seconds (on the first hit including free jab). I maxed out dodge and physical fitness a long while ago, and the biggest issue I have is that I'm slowed down by 5-10 seconds on 30-35% of the kills I make when frying.

Would I like the option of bolting something to death once it's close rather than spending extra stamina and time? Fuck yes I would. Even if you have to cast it twice to kill, you're still saving 3-5 seconds with soft RT rather than hard.

Is having the option to have that as a post cap goal something I would rather have over having to spend TPs to get an empty spell? Absolutely fucking yes. Why the fuck not? You have to spend those TPs anyway.

[Methais]

Even if Simu were open to the idea of allowing monks to 2x spell aim, which they won't be, they'd never do it because it wouldn't be a simple change. It would be quite the opposite.

I don't remember if they gave any real details about it, which they probably didn't, but it came up during the ELR disaster when people were saying wizards should be able to 3x lores if they're gonna put retardedly high lore requirements scattered all over the place and they were like "No because changing something like that would require an insane amount of shit."

[audioserf]

They've always made it seem like touching the character manager (or spellsongs, or the forums) is a level of Dark Arts they lack the ability to tackle.

[Astray]

They've always made it seem like touching the character manager (or spellsongs, or the forums) is a level of Dark Arts they lack the ability to tackle.
They can't fuck with it because they don't know how it works. Lmao.

[Stumplicker]

They've always made it seem like touching the character manager (or spellsongs, or the forums) is a level of Dark Arts they lack the ability to tackle.

Fo sheezy. And if I'm being honest, I'm far more interested in Monks being able to 2x lores than I would be in making them 2x spell aiming. I wanna be in robe-MBP and still have 40% stamina use reduction.

But fuck it. I have no problem asking for both at once.

I'm just happy the empty low level spell slots are finally getting filled. I don't care if they're useful to me once every year. That's better than zero.

Edit to add:

If this one being marginally useful causes this many non monks to whine this hard, wait until they see the other one, which is for RP and not mechanics. That's the one I -really- want, and was half the reason I made a monk, reasoning that by the time I capped they'd surely have it implemented.

[Gelston]

They can't fuck with it because they don't know how it works. Lmao.

They literally just fucked one with of them.

[Hymore246]

With 1x Spell Aiming, 100 Dex, rank 5 Perfect Self, rank 5 Burst of Swiftness, and 117 you get +319 AS. That's the upper limit according to the planner without using enhancives.

I would argue for for 2x Spell Aiming for monks (lol) given how they implemented 1206 without Savants. But the fact that they can't touch the character trainer doesn't surprise me. I know first hand how crazy the system can be since I built my own version of it. You change something like 2/1 to 3/1 and you have a good chance of completely screwing up a build. Trying to recalculate the entire player base of a single profession would be nuts and would break stuff for a while. Further, I remember that there is a hook in the system that would drag players into a GM area if they detected an illegal build. This happened a lot in early GS4 when people began to unlearn skills while learning new ones. I doubt the GMs have a contingency for making any sort of skill manager changes and I bet it would be hard to implement.

[audioserf]

So add between 26-35 for society to that, and with 117 -every shot- you have a worse bolt AS than a level 50 Wizard. And I don't think rank 4 and 5 surge/burst are that commonly trained for monks from what I've seen but I could be wrong there. Flimbo, I know you know a lot about monks and want to support ANY kind of dev being done that affects them but it just confuses me that you're caping for a bolt spell for a square. I don't get it. Do you though.

I really think making 1206 use the higher of Spell Aim or Thrown Weapons is a killer idea. It would make it usable for monks who have put the points in to pick up a second weapon style, but it would never be practical/beneficial to be a pure 1206 monk, so it would remain a flavor/kill shot spell after the mstrike.

[Astray]

They literally just fucked one with of them.

On a basic level, they can add on to it and such but they can't fuck with it at its core. I recall something along those lines by Wyrom. Mainly they just don't know how that shit works and they are scared to break it.

[Stumplicker]

So add between 26-35 for society to that, and with 117 -every shot- you have a worse bolt AS than a level 50 Wizard. And I don't think rank 4 and 5 surge/burst are that commonly trained for monks from what I've seen but I could be wrong there. Flimbo, I know you know a lot about monks and want to support ANY kind of dev being done that affects them but it just confuses me that you're caping for a bolt spell for a square. I don't get it. Do you though.

I really think making 1206 use the higher of Spell Aim or Thrown Weapons is a killer idea. It would make it usable for monks who have put the points in to pick up a second weapon style, but it would never be practical/beneficial to be a pure 1206 monk, so it would remain a flavor/kill shot spell after the mstrike.

I don't disagree at all. Thrown weapons would be perfect and I'd have loved to see it implemented that way. Monks are squares in name and the fact that they get a lot of cheaply trained combat maneuver bonuses and all that, but realistically, they just don't hunt or train like squares. They're not semis either. They're really their own thing. You have to train 40 ranks of spells at least to be successful on your own. No other square does that. But at the same time, you don't really need to use any offensive spells to be successful either.

They aren't semis like paladins where you're using your 1219 like 1615, but at the same time if you do choose to use your 1219, it probably lands easier than a Paladin's 1615 does by virtue of no critter having mental TD and the fact that you have 110 logic, and it performs just about the same duty as 1630 does, except replace "kneeling" with, "in 60 seconds of RT and prone"

Monks are a weird, weird profession that I really don't think should be called either a square or a semi. They train weird. They hunt weird, and they're far more versatile than people give them credit for.

Is 1206 as implemented the best thing ever for monks? No, 'course not. Is it better than having nothing in that slot? Absolutely. Can I find a use for it that makes me fry faster? Yep.

I got no problems with it. It'd be better other ways. It'd be cooler other ways. But as is, I'm happy.

[Donquix]

So add between 26-35 for society to that, and with 117 -every shot- you have a worse bolt AS than a level 50 Wizard. And I don't think rank 4 and 5 surge/burst are that commonly trained for monks from what I've seen but I could be wrong there. Flimbo, I know you know a lot about monks and want to support ANY kind of dev being done that affects them but it just confuses me that you're caping for a bolt spell for a square. I don't get it. Do you though.

I really think making 1206 use the higher of Spell Aim or Thrown Weapons is a killer idea. It would make it usable for monks who have put the points in to pick up a second weapon style, but it would never be practical/beneficial to be a pure 1206 monk, so it would remain a flavor/kill shot spell after the mstrike.

They literally treat it the sane as MnS and MnE. That's the end of it. I don't know why you guys are going round and round trying to figure out some potential use for it for monks. There is literally none, as designed. It is 100% for savants and scrolls, and they are just 'spergy enough to treat a minor circle 1 class (realistically, forever) can learn the same as the 2 minor lists that like, 8 classes can learn.

failing to acknowledge that...
- monks are still basically semis, profession list or not, so some batshit idea that a "square" that is expected to train AT LEAST .3x spells is somehow the same as warriors (basically post cap only) and rogues (MAYBE mutant up to 410, or commonly only up to 404, precap) is disconnected from reality

- even spells some classes can't use from a shared circle have half a dozen that can. EVEN IF savants existed next week why would you not design the spell in such a way that oh i dunno, THE ONE OTHER CLASS that learns it can use it somehow

- the entire premise (that it's ok you'd be realistically expected to train for a SPELL YOU COULD NEVER USE EVER) is fucking flawed, so basing current design decisions on the precedent of awful design decisions from 30 years ago is stupid

[Methais]

I don't disagree at all. Thrown weapons would be perfect and I'd have loved to see it implemented that way. Monks are squares in name and the fact that they get a lot of cheaply trained combat maneuver bonuses and all that, but realistically, they just don't hunt or train like squares. They're not semis either. They're really their own thing. You have to train 40 ranks of spells at least to be successful on your own. No other square does that. But at the same time, you don't really need to use any offensive spells to be successful either.

They aren't semis like paladins where you're using your 1219 like 1615, but at the same time if you do choose to use your 1219, it probably lands easier than a Paladin's 1615 does by virtue of no critter having mental TD and the fact that you have 110 logic, and it performs just about the same duty as 1630 does, except replace "kneeling" with, "in 60 seconds of RT and prone"

Monks are a weird, weird profession that I really don't think should be called either a square or a semi. They train weird. They hunt weird, and they're far more versatile than people give them credit for.

Is 1206 as implemented the best thing ever for monks? No, 'course not. Is it better than having nothing in that slot? Absolutely. Can I find a use for it that makes me fry faster? Yep.

I got no problems with it. It'd be better other ways. It'd be cooler other ways. But as is, I'm happy.

Sounds like GS Stockholm Syndrome to me.

[Stumplicker]

Sounds like GS Stockholm Syndrome to me.

I will complain about a lot of things, but non-simucoin development is never ever going to be one of them ever again. More and more dev time over the years has gone into microtransactions.

I don't even care so much that it's a Monk spell that was implemented. If they implemented an RP flavor spell for wizards where all it did was let you emote that you cup your hand ever so gently beneath your butthole and take a big creamy shit into it, I would call it a better use of time than Rings of Lumnis or the fucking dollhouse.

[Donquix]

Sounds like GS Stockholm Syndrome to me.

live footage of Estilid watching the release of 1206

https://i.imgur.com/Dg2xIqn.gif

[Methais]

I will complain about a lot of things, but non-simucoin development is never ever going to be one of them ever again. More and more dev time over the years has gone into microtransactions.

I don't even care so much that it's a Monk spell that was implemented. If they implemented an RP flavor spell for wizards where all it did was let you emote that you cup your hand ever so gently beneath your butthole and take a big creamy shit into it, I would call it a better use of time than Rings of Lumnis or the fucking dollhouse.

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather them spend dev time on things that are actually useful, especially if it involves filling a previously empty spell slot. Now you're stuck with that weak shit instead of something good.

[Taernath]

I will complain about a lot of things, but non-simucoin development is never ever going to be one of them ever again. More and more dev time over the years has gone into microtransactions.

Bad dev is bad dev regardless of where it goes.

[Stumplicker]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather them spend dev time on things that are actually useful, especially if it involves filling a previously empty spell slot. Now you're stuck with that weak shit instead of something good.

I've already gone into detail on why I find it useful for my purposes, so I won't do so again, but you're entitled to your opinion on it. Someday when you play a monk, it might even matter.

[Donquix]

in reality this WAS working on microtransactions / paywall stuff btw flimbo Where do you think the first high charge scrolls (which shockingly will work with esitlid's new sigil staff items HMMMM), sk, etc. will come from?

Your spell list was co-opted as a bonus arcane list spell to be sold for simucoins.

[Astray]

I've already gone into detail on why I find it useful for my purposes, so I won't do so again, but you're entitled to your opinion on it. Someday when you play a monk, it might even matter.

Maybe if monks weren't so terrible they'd be worth playing.

[Methais]

I've already gone into detail on why I find it useful for my purposes, so I won't do so again, but you're entitled to your opinion on it. Someday when you play a monk, it might even matter.

If I ever do play a monk, I still won't be excited about having to wait until cap to sink 500/2000 TPs into a skill just use a level 6 spell in certain situations with a mediocre at best AS and do everything I can to convince myself it isn't garbage dev. And being a wizard, I'm pretty familiar with garbage dev.

I mean if that's your thing then sure, but that doesn't make it any less garbage.

[Donquix]

Yeah i have no fucking clue what you're on about flimbo with thinking you have uses for it. I can only assume you've had a stroke since selling out.

if you were a +15 dex race with full dex enhancives in COL you end up with what, 295ish AS at cap

like...lol. My last capped wizard hunt bolt defenses ranged from 216 to 503

every single one of those was already prone, the low ones were probably killing blows for things already 90% dead and missing limbs. And that's the sanctum, shit swarms you to death so the individuals are weak. If you think "bolting like a level 40 wizard with half the mana pool" is good post cap, i guess more power to you.

[Stumplicker]

every single one of those was already prone, the low ones were probably killing blows for things already 90% dead and missing limbs.

Thus describing the exact scenario in which I find the spell useful, as you'll see from my previous posts. Finishing off critters with 3 seconds of soft RT instead of 5-10 seconds of hard RT. I'd be surprised if it saved me more than 30 seconds per hunt, but when my biggest problem is that I'm taking extra time to kill the 30-35% of the things that don't die instantly, that 30 seconds is useful to me. Sanctum is one place it might be useful, OTF another. I'm not sure about Nelemar as I've never hunted there, but it's a spell with at least one marginal use to me, which is an infinity percent increase in usefulness from what it was before.

[Methais]

Thus describing the exact scenario in which I find the spell useful, as you'll see from my previous posts. Finishing off critters with 3 seconds of soft RT instead of 5-10 seconds of hard RT. I'd be surprised if it saved me more than 30 seconds per hunt, but when my biggest problem is that I'm taking extra time to kill the 30-35% of the things that don't die instantly, that 30 seconds is useful to me. Sanctum is one place it might be useful, OTF another. I'm not sure about Nelemar as I've never hunted there, but it's a spell with at least one marginal use to me, which is an infinity percent increase in usefulness from what it was before.

How much RT does it take to spend 500/2000 though?

[Stumplicker]

How much RT does it take to spend 500/2000 though?

Considering that what I was currently finishing up was maxing out Two weapon combat for an additional useless 11 DS and then my next goal was picking pockets, I could think of worse things to spend it on.

[Donquix]

from looking at your own sales thread....

trading to 40+
harness power
telep or transformation lore
MnM to 36+
MnS to 40
survival
first aid
smc / mmc to 25+
moc to 190
blessing lore
pick pocket
disarm

like...i'm not even remotely stretching here and you had like at least 10-15m exp of other things to train in before spell aim is even close to worth it. (and it would never be worth it)

[Stumplicker]

from looking at your own sales thread....

trading to 40+
harness power
telep or transformation lore
MnM to 36+
MnS to 40
survival
first aid
smc / mmc to 25+
moc to 190
blessing lore
pick pocket
disarm

like...i'm not even remotely stretching here and you had like at least 10-15m exp of other things to train in before spell aim is even close to worth it. (and it would never be worth it)

Yeah, I know how monks work. I literally wrote the book on them, remember? I made all the choices I made for very specific reasons, and after getting back up to 48 MnM (I forgot I had fixskilled back down, and even that's more out of OCD than need), I'd have put a premium on improving my hunt time with maxing out MoC and spell aiming. Faster hunts means faster exp means faster TPs for all the other stuff I find less useful, such as 90% of the things on that list, based on how I hunt.

Edit to add:

I'm not saying you have to use it, or even find it useful. What I've said is I found a use for it and find it useful. You're welcome to keep not having a use for it and you're also welcome to not use it. It changes exactly nothing about how you play your Monk, because it's not like there was a spell there previously that you had a use for. I'm perfectly okay with that.

[Donquix]

Yeah, I know how monks work. I literally wrote the book on them, remember? I made all the choices I made for very specific reasons, and after getting back up to 48 MnM (I forgot I had fixskilled back down, and even that's more out of OCD than need), I'd have put a premium on improving my hunt time with maxing out MoC and spell aiming. Faster hunts means faster exp means faster TPs for all the other stuff I find less useful, such as 90% of the things on that list, based on how I hunt.

You wrote a book, not the book. That's your problem, you never acknowledge when you're wrong. You often are.

You're making the case for spending several thousand TPs so you can....

MAYBE kill SOME things SOME of the time 2 seconds faster that you couldn't already 1210 for the same effect. Like....ok dude. Go on with your bad self.

[Hymore246]

I will complain about a lot of things, but non-simucoin development is never ever going to be one of them ever again. More and more dev time over the years has gone into microtransactions.

I don't even care so much that it's a Monk spell that was implemented. If they implemented an RP flavor spell for wizards where all it did was let you emote that you cup your hand ever so gently beneath your butthole and take a big creamy shit into it, I would call it a better use of time than Rings of Lumnis or the fucking dollhouse.

1206 being an x/day item at a future DR or EG or whatever is the most plausible theory at this point. The GMs REALLY need to explain their thought process on creating 1206 the way it is. Even if you want to argue it can be used post-cap, it does nothing to help a monk who learns it level 10. You shouldn't have to wait 90 levels and a year's worth of time to use a spell effectively.

[Androidpk]

Must have been a pretty shitty book because I've never heard of it.

[Astray]

Must have been a pretty shitty book because I've never heard of it.

More of a guide, really.

[Stumplicker]

Must have been a pretty shitty book because I've never heard of it.

That's likely because you, along with 95% of the other people bitching about the implementation of a spell that has zero effect on you, do not play monks.

[Wrathbringer]

That's likely because you, along with 95% of the other people bitching about the implementation of a spell that has zero effect on you, do not play monks.

Why would they? Monks suck.

[audioserf]

But I think you are the only person who played a monk that is actually arguing the merits of the spell as implemented.

[Stumplicker]

But I think you are the only person who played a monk that is actually arguing the merits of the spell as implemented.

I still play a monk. I'm just not capped anymore yet.

And I don't know if there is some sinister purpose Estild has in mind for the spell for some conspiracy theory for releasing x/times per day items or not. What I know is that it's a spell that was implemented almost identically to how its description has been worded on the wiki for the past 6 years, I have a use for it, and it costs zero simucoins.

But about the Illuminati Estild Conspiracy Theory, I will say - I doubt it, but it doesn't affect me, so I also could care less. The part that affects me, I don't mind.

[Astray]

It's Flambo, he wears a red bandana and he's evil. Keep up with LNet guys.

[Gelston]

It is funny because the guy who actually implemented the damn spell said it isn't for monks.

[Stumplicker]

It's Flambo, he wears a red bandana and he's evil. Keep up with LNet guys.

If that guy really was inside my brain, he would know that I obviously identify more with BMO than Flambo and would've named himself appropriately.

[Astray]

It is funny because the guy who actually implemented the damn spell said it isn't for monks.

Well, it's not. It's for Minor Mental, the only class that currently has access to that list are monks so it's exclusive to them but isn't for them.

I'm toasted. Tell me if that makes sense.

[Gelston]

Well, it's not. It's for Minor Mental, the only class that currently has access to that list are monks so it's exclusive to them but isn't for them.

I'm toasted. Tell me if that makes sense.

No, I'm talking about how Flimbo keeps insisting how great it is for monks. He doesn't even play a monk.

[audioserf]

Well, it's not. It's for Minor Mental, the only class that currently has access to that list are monks so it's exclusive to them but isn't for them.

I'm toasted. Tell me if that makes sense.

It makes sense, which is why it's maddening that they're taking that stance. "Well you see it says "Minor Mental", not "Monk Base" so therefore monks don't have to be able to use it, because a class that we once planned to implement but now will probably never speak of again may some day also get to access it, plus you know scrolls and stuff".

I think I've argued about this as much as I can and now I'm talking in circles. I think it's a stupid implementation of a spell that had a lot of potential to be cool. I hope Savants do get created one day. I'm optimistic that 1212 will be fun to play with when it drops (they said by year end, right?)

[Hymore246]

You know what spell would have been better to implement than 1206? How about Shroud of Deception (1212)? Lots of cool things you do with that roleplaying wise. Everyone would love to get a scroll or imbed of it just to mess around.

[Astray]

No, I'm talking about how Flimbo keeps insisting how great it is for monks. He doesn't even play a monk.

Oh. I don't fucking get that. I'm looking at the arguments and it's largely a worthless spell.

[Methais]

If that guy really was inside my brain, he would know that I obviously identify more with BMO than Flambo and would've named himself appropriately.

Barack Moosain Obama?

[Androidpk]

That's likely because you, along with 95% of the other people bitching about the implementation of a spell that has zero effect on you, do not play monks.

I've had a monk since day 1..

[Wrathbringer]

I've had a monk since day 1..

subpoena subpoena

[Methais]

I've had a monk since day 1..

Yeah but unless you got to really high level and then fixskilled to a 1206 build and finished off a few critters 2 seconds faster than you would have normally, then YOU JUST DON'T KNOWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!11

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/minecraftcreepypasta/images/e/e9/86335d98384d869f8f80333897774a62_gosh-bye-bye-memes_371-375.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20170303011540

[Taernath]

Yeah but unless you got to really high level and then fixskilled to a 1206 build and finished off a few critters 2 seconds faster than you would have normally, then YOU JUST DON'T KNOWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!11[/img]

https://i.imgur.com/W89FWhW.jpg

[mgoddess]

Must have been a pretty shitty book because I've never heard of it.


That's likely because you, along with 95% of the other people bitching about the implementation of a spell that has zero effect on you, do not play monks.

As someone who *does* play a monk (level 39), who finds 1206 to be unuseful (unless I feel like throwing rocks at roltons or kobolds), who actually did read your 'guide'....

Yeah, it was a pretty shitty guide, written by a post-cap monk player, who wrote it with only post-cap monk experience.

[Androidpk]

There is only 1 guide worth talking about and that's Commandant's ultimate warrior.

[Stumplicker]

As someone who *does* play a monk (level 39), who finds 1206 to be unuseful (unless I feel like throwing rocks at roltons or kobolds), who actually did read your 'guide'....

Yeah, it was a pretty shitty guide, written by a post-cap monk player, who wrote it with only post-cap monk experience.

I started writing it at 35, actually, and continued to update it until well post cap, most recently a couple months ago. Which I'm guessing you didn't actually know because you didn't actually read the guide, as it mentions that several times, as well as has several non capped examples pasted into its math sections because I was not yet capped when I made those sections.

You're welcome to write your own or suggest updates to mine if you think it's wrong in places though, and you'll note that there are several sections and addendums of my guide from other players, which I'm guessing you also did not read.

[Methais]

As someone who *does* play a monk (level 39), who finds 1206 to be unuseful (unless I feel like throwing rocks at roltons or kobolds), who actually did read your 'guide'....

Yeah, it was a pretty shitty guide, written by a post-cap monk player, who wrote it with only post-cap monk experience.

He bought a capped monk and then decided he's the authority on monks? Or did I interpret that wrong?

[Gelston]

He bought a capped monk and then decided he's the authority on monks? Or did I interpret that wrong?

He didn't buy a capped monk. He sold one. He took it from 0 to cap. He knows about monks. He doesn't know everything about monks.

[Stumplicker]

He bought a capped monk and then decided he's the authority on monks? Or did I interpret that wrong?

Either you did or she did, because it's not an accurate statement.

[Methais]

Either you did or she did, because it's not an accurate statement.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/71810925.jpg

[Donquix]

You know what spell would have been better to implement than 1206? How about Shroud of Deception (1212)? Lots of cool things you do with that roleplaying wise. Everyone would love to get a scroll or imbed of it just to mess around.

Which is being worked on also. Or at least was, maybe he's going to stop after the reception to this one.

At simucon he said it was "50% complete" but described that as meaning the purely cosmetic part of the spell (i.e. merely changing how you appear when people look at you, etc.) was done. But none of the MECHANICAL parts were done yet (i.e. you 1212 to looking like an elf instead of a half-krol to sell when you're in illistim, and you get the elf trading bonus). The latter seems substantially more nuanced with a bunch of different systems that could touch on it, so I feel like 20% seems like a more valid assessment. Who knows, maybe race recognition is one of the only things in the GS backend that isn't crazy town!

Or maybe 1212 can fix 1206! at 40 ranks of MnM you can change what your profession appears as so maybe you can shapeshift over to a wizard before you check in at the inn and get applicable spell aiming training costs!

but there's no conspiracy really, it's just "this spell is kinda neat and the easiest way to implement it is basically control-c control-v of 510 and play with flavor messaging"

[mgoddess]

He bought a capped monk and then decided he's the authority on monks? Or did I interpret that wrong?


He didn't buy a capped monk. He sold one. He took it from 0 to cap. He knows about monks. He doesn't know everything about monks.

^ That.

[Maerit]

If making the spell totally useful for monks isn't an option (via some combat mechanic), I added a suggestion on the officials that would allow the spell to have some semblance of utility akin to 111.

Specifying an AREA WEB as your telekinesis target will cause the web to be hurled at an enemy target (using the Web Bolt spell formula). If no target can be found, the area web will be hurled into the environment. Either way, the web is removed from the area.

That way monks can remove area webs by either casting them as a bolt at targets (which will fail due to AS limitations, but the web is removed), or dispelling them into the environment. Similar utility to what 111 will do, which is burn the web away.

What I don't know is how that would interact with any players or non-players that are already caught in the web...

You gesture at a giant sticky web.
You levitate a giant sticky web with a webbed Player at a rolton!

[Donquix]

if the target is already in the web it pulls them back and then flings them off like a giant slingshot.

[Astray]

if the target is already in the web it pulls them back and then flings them off like a giant slingshot.

Log please.

[Donquix]

Log please.

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/032011/1299505824_jackass-3d-steve-oport-a-potty-slingshot.gif

[Fortybox]

He bought a capped monk and then decided he's the authority on monks? Or did I interpret that wrong?

No, he leveled Flimbo from 0-100 and then got butt hurt, pretended to be someone else on discord, got banned there and sold his account because he is crazy.

Now he is playing a new monk in attempt to establish a new persona (AKA Peteypie).

[Fortybox]

As someone who *does* play a monk (level 39), who finds 1206 to be unuseful (unless I feel like throwing rocks at roltons or kobolds), who actually did read your 'guide'....

Yeah, it was a pretty shitty guide, written by a post-cap monk player, who wrote it with only post-cap monk experience.

His "guide" is horrible and I wish it was removed. I've written a better guide:

Fortybox's Guide to Monks

Chapter 1 - Welcome to Elanthia!

Monks suck. Reroll into literally any other profession.

The end.

Epilogue

Screw you Estild.

Copyright Fortybox 2018

[Fortybox]

Well, it's not. It's for Minor Mental, the only class that currently has access to that list are monks so it's exclusive to them but isn't for them.

I'm toasted. Tell me if that makes sense.

That's why I'm so triggeredz by this.

What were they thinking? It's already bad enough that monks have an unfinished spell circle that is supposed to be shared with a profession that was acknowledged would never be developed.

[Methais]

His "guide" is horrible and I wish it was removed. I've written a better guide:

Fortybox's Guide to Monks

Chapter 1 - Welcome to Elanthia!

Monks suck. Reroll into literally any other profession.

The end.

Epilogue

Screw you Estild.

Copyright Fortybox 2018

:lol:

[BHawk]

I think the requirement of needing spell aiming is a cruel joke thought up by the GMs. Spell aiming is very expensive to learn, which you can only train once a level in it. Plus my monk can't learn a spell every level. So there were four levels where I only learned one usable spell.

And since the Minor Mental spell base is only naturally learned by monks, if one more person tells me it's not a monk base spell circle and monks can't claim it all to themselves, I am going to 1206 a rock their way... which of course is going to miss them completely.

[Gelston]

I think the requirement of needing spell aiming is a cruel joke thought up by the GMs. Spell aiming is very expensive to learn, which you can only train once a level in it. Plus my monk can't learn a spell every level. So there were four levels where I only learned one usable spell.

And since the Minor Mental spell base is only naturally learned by monks, if one more person tells me it's not a monk base spell circle and monks can't claim it all to themselves, I am going to 1206 a rock their way... which of course is going to miss them completely.

It isn't made for monks, as Estlid has said.

[Methais]

It isn't made for monks, as Estlid has said.

Estild only speaks in opposites. And he doesn't realize it.