Why America isn't the greatest country in the world anymore. [Archive]

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Avaia

09-08-2018, 09:43 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPHSXUS0_1c

Tgo01

09-08-2018, 09:48 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPHSXUS0_1c

No. Dumb. Shut up.

Taernath

09-08-2018, 09:50 PM

Off Topic because...?

time4fun

09-08-2018, 09:58 PM

Soooo that's a scripted TV show. Probably not what we'd call a primary source in this instance

But, here's the reality, we were never THE greatest country. But we were one of them. And now we're just one of the richest countries. Turns out- that doesn't make you great.

Avaia

09-08-2018, 10:09 PM

Off Topic because...?

Not really politics, just a clip from a TV show that I happen to find interesting. It was here or Social and I flipped a coin. *shrug*

Tgo01

09-08-2018, 10:23 PM

But, here's the reality, we were never THE greatest country.

Which country was greater and why? I gotta hear this.

Androidpk

09-08-2018, 10:37 PM

Not really politics, just a clip from a TV show that I happen to find interesting. It was here or Social and I flipped a coin. *shrug*

Great scene, great show, ended way too soon IMO.

Fortybox

09-08-2018, 10:41 PM

Which country was greater and why? I gotta hear this.

This is the progressive agenda. They despise American values, ideas and culture. A couple of points:

1) SCOTUS - they hate any justice that will interpret the laws based on the original intent, language or meaning of the constitution.

2) Socialist candidates - they embrace candidates that champion socialism or in short, European modeled programs.

3) Borders - they don't see what we have here worth protecting because they hate it. Open borders means more voters to drown out those who love America values, ideas and culture.

4) Faith - any faith that will advocate for objective morality must be destroyed. They must break this down to hold up their own world view.

In short, America must be destroyed.

Androidpk

09-08-2018, 11:14 PM

Rocktar is that you?

Gelston

09-08-2018, 11:14 PM

I always wonder why people don't move to these countries that are greater than where they are.

I give Avaia 1/10. Bad trolling. A six year old HBO TV show? Come on.

Fortybox

09-08-2018, 11:29 PM

I always wonder why people don't move to these countries that are greater than where they are.

I give Avaia 1/10. Bad trolling. A six year old HBO TV show? Come on.

Because it's not about living elsewhere. It's about breaking down a system you hate.

Gelston

09-08-2018, 11:35 PM

Because it's not about living elsewhere. It's about breaking down a system you hate.

If I wasn't happy here, I'd go somewhere I was happy at. Simple as that. I guess I'm an adult though and not a raging bitch.

Avaia

09-08-2018, 11:40 PM

Because it's not about living elsewhere. It's about breaking down a system you hate.

Actually, it is about restoring something that you love, but I do not expect you to try and understand that.

Tgo01

09-08-2018, 11:42 PM

Actually, it is about restoring something that you love, but I do not expect you to try and understand that.

Supposedly we live in a racist, fascist country where the cops gun down "people of color" for sport, where being white and male provides you with endless opportunities and not being white or male means you're doomed to live a poor existence. How can someone actually believe all of this and say "Yeah, I love all of this but I want to change it for the better."

Gelston

09-08-2018, 11:44 PM

So what do you love? BAck when we had slavery? Back when the black people had to go to school somewhere else and drink from different water fountains? What is it you loved that is now gone, Avaia?

Avaia

09-08-2018, 11:54 PM

So what do you love? BAck when we had slavery? Back when the black people had to go to school somewhere else and drink from different water fountains? What is it you loved that is now gone, Avaia?

"Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, on this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives, that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate—we cannot hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

Gelston

09-08-2018, 11:57 PM

"Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, on this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives, that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate—we cannot hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

So you want the Civil War back? You are posting a quote with no context here from a guy that said he would preserve slavery if it would save the Union.

Avaia

09-09-2018, 12:04 AM

Gelston you do realize that I know that no matter what I say you are going to pick at and twist and try to lawyer it apart, don't you?

I've said what I have to say. I realize that you don't get it.

Gelston

09-09-2018, 12:06 AM

Gelston you do realize that I know that no matter what I say you are going to pick at and twist and try to lawyer it apart, don't you?

I've said what I have to say. I realize that you don't get it.

You haven't said anything though. you posted a video, then said you like America how it used to be, and then posted a quote. How about actually saying something?

Neveragain

09-09-2018, 07:14 AM

You haven't said anything though. you posted a video, then said you like America how it used to be, and then posted a quote. How about actually saying something?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALE6ENavvJQ

Parkbandit

09-09-2018, 09:29 AM

Actually, it is about restoring something that you love, but I do not expect you to try and understand that.

Don't worry... President Trump hears you and is working on it!

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Parkbandit

09-09-2018, 09:31 AM

Which country was greater and why? I gotta hear this.

https://media.giphy.com/media/HkyKoqokMDq1i/giphy.gif

Astray

09-09-2018, 09:43 AM

That video clip is dumb.

Let's get something straight here, America has been a country of power and influence since its conception. We tore ourselves away from one of the more powerful Empires and made our own place in the World. From there we've had plenty that should and could have torn us down. It never did. We've evolved and now we're using one of the most amazing methods of communication and information that our ancestors could never have fathomed. We put that shit in our pocket.

I got a kick out of "Make America Great Again" because before and after this we're gonna still be one of the better places to live in the World. We're gonna still be talked about and people are going to move here and create their version of the American dream.

Get this TV clip that argues for nothing the fuck outta here.

cwolff

09-09-2018, 10:02 AM

Astray

09-09-2018, 10:12 AM

You're kind of denouncing and supporting the clip in this post. The character's arguing against the mindless chauvinism of American Exceptionalism and "We're #1!". I do agree that we will continue to be one of the better places to live though.

American exceptionalism is funny. I've been to a few countries where it's HARD to spot patriotism but it's there. You don't see flags and such but if you get them started, they'll tell you all about their Prime Minister/Leader/etc and their policies and the family behind them. Here it's the opposite, I find.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 10:12 AM

Actually, it is about restoring something that you love, but I do not expect you to try and understand that.

What specifically was lost and needs to be restored? Putting a quote without context and then saying we all don't get it doesn't help at all.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 10:13 AM

You're kind of denouncing and supporting the clip in this post. The character's arguing against the mindless chauvinism of American Exceptionalism and "We're #1!". I do agree that we will continue to be one of the better places to live though.

In your mind, what specifically needs to change? Why do you currently hate America?

Astray

09-09-2018, 10:14 AM

I don't think he hates America.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 10:15 AM

Astray

09-09-2018, 10:16 AM

There was a reason why we tore ourselves away. It wasn't because we wanted to be #1.

Yeah, yeah, I get that.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 10:21 AM

Yeah, yeah, I get that.

Many things came out of it but one of the most important was the Declaration of Independence, a document that really laid out for the first time an argument for human life, human rights and independence. It lays out the case that no government gives or takes our unalienable rights, that these rights are a matter of natural law and given by God.

Very important stuff that is all part of our country's founding. And these idiots want to dismantle it.

Androidpk

09-09-2018, 10:44 AM

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 10:54 AM

All the wealth and power this country has and we have rampant income inequality and we still don't have universal healthcare. Not to mention groups of people are still fighting for equal rights. This country has a long way to go.

So your solution is for government to come in and be the savior?

Please tell me your vision of universal healthcare?

At what point do we stop taxing Americans? We have state taxes, state property taxes, federal taxes...taxes, taxes, and more taxes. Now you want taxes on wealth where the government gets to decide who is wealthy and who isn't?

Androidpk

09-09-2018, 11:02 AM

So your solution is for government to come in and be the savior?

Please tell me your vision of universal healthcare?

At what point do we stop taxing Americans? We have state taxes, state property taxes, federal taxes...taxes, taxes, and more taxes. Now you want taxes on wealth where the government gets to decide who is wealthy and who isn't?

Did I say the solution was more government? I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 11:08 AM

Did I say the solution was more government? I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.

Then what's the solution?

Parkbandit

09-09-2018, 11:15 AM

All the wealth and power this country has and we have rampant income inequality and we still don't have universal healthcare. Not to mention groups of people are still fighting for equal rights. This country has a long way to go.

So, in your mind, the reason the US isn't #1 is because we don't have universal healthcare? I'll stick to this one point you made, since it's actually tangible. The other is just an emotional point and given that there isn't a country out there where some citizen is proclaiming they don't have "equal rights".. that clearly isn't stopping the US from being #1.

Parkbandit

09-09-2018, 11:18 AM

Did I say the solution was more government? I'm pretty sure I didn't say that.

Universal Healthcare is a government run program and given that was the one item you put forth as your explanation why we aren't the #1 country in the world.. yea, I'm pretty sure you did say that was the solution.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 11:20 AM

Universal Healthcare is a government run program and given that was the one item you put forth as your explanation why we aren't the #1 country in the world.. yea, I'm pretty sure you did say that was the solution.

That's what I inferred as well but I'd love to hear what the alternative solution is if it's not more government.

Parkbandit

09-09-2018, 11:22 AM

That's what I inferred as well but I'd love to hear what the alternative solution is if it's not more government.

Depends on which political voice in his head is doing the talking today......

cwolff

09-09-2018, 11:42 AM

We have lost touch with the concept that it's our government. It works for us, or at least it should. I don't know where it started and maybe people have always groused about big government when laws or regulations were created which they don't like, but Lincoln was right when he said, "...and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

In tackling income inequality the "government" is the best tool. We have to step in and referee these issues and that's ideally the highest and best way to use our government. Sasse is getting a lot of applause for his observations at the Kavanaugh hearing and he deserves it. This is what he said:

https://youtu.be/EJK2JveCAbI

Astray

09-09-2018, 11:45 AM

In tackling income inequality the "government" is the best tool.

You want the government to be small but you want it to regulate and enforce income inequality. How do you go about that? In your own words?

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 11:47 AM

You want the government to be small but you want it to regulate and enforce income inequality. How do you go about that? In your own words?

Where did he say small? That's the problem. Liberalism grows government.

That's like the whole central tension between liberalism and conservatism.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 11:51 AM

“That government is best which governs least, because its people discipline themselves.” - Thomas Jefferson

This belief that government has to grow to solve problems is wrong.

Liberalism wants large government to police their thinking on others. They don't believe people can discipline themselves.

Astray

09-09-2018, 11:52 AM

This belief that government has to grow to solve problems is wrong.

Liberalism wants large government to police their thinking on others. They don't believe people can discipline themselves.

That first part inferred a small government. That emotional one. If it's not a small goverment he's after I'm pretty sure he'll let us know.

cwolff

09-09-2018, 11:58 AM

You want the government to be small but you want it to regulate and enforce income inequality. How do you go about that? In your own words?

I don't think I've made a statement about the proper size of the government. I don't have any idea what the ideal size is. I do want our government to work well for us. In some ways it's awesome and other ways it's lacking. Ultimately it can be no better than the people who are doing the voting and our fellow citizens don't pay it enough mind.

Right now I have no firm plan to tackle income inequality. I would like to see taxes raised, inheritance taxes WAY raised, I'd love it if they broke up the "too big to fail" banks and I'd like to see government use those increased tax collections to pay for ambitious infrastructure projects with good paying blue collar jobs. All in all let government work to make the playing field level.

In your words, what ideas do you have to address income inequality?

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 12:02 PM

I don't think I've made a statement about the proper size of the government. I don't have any idea what the ideal size is. I do want our government to work well for us. In some ways it's awesome and other ways it's lacking. Ultimately it can be no better than the people who are doing the voting and our fellow citizens don't pay it enough mind.

Right now I have no firm plan to tackle income inequality. I would like to see taxes raised, inheritance taxes WAY raised, I'd love it if they broke up the "too big to fail" banks and I'd like to see government use those increased tax collections to pay for ambitious infrastructure projects with good paying blue collar jobs. All in all let government work to make the playing field level.

In your words, what ideas do you have to address income inequality?

WTF is wrong with you. Why is it ok in your book to tax, again, inheritance? You do realize that productivity decreases when taxes are raised right?

We wouldn't need to raise taxes if entitlements were slashed.

Astray

09-09-2018, 12:09 PM

In your words, what ideas do you have to address income inequality?

There isn't a clear concise answer in my mind because the idea of job equality is ludicrous. Why should I be expected to train a new hire at the same cost of someone with far more skill, equally? Why should I pay someone at a computer like I would a guy doing the groundwork, equally? The jobs are different and it's not because of discrimination, in most cases. There is no clear answer that makes people comfortable. It's a trap, at best.

And while I may not agree with you, thank you for answering the question.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 12:17 PM

There isn't a clear concise answer in my mind because the idea of job equality is ludicrous. Why should I be expected to train a new hire at the same cost of someone with far more skill, equally? Why should I pay someone at a computer like I would a guy doing the groundwork, equally? The jobs are different and it's not because of discrimination, in most cases. There is no clear answer that makes people comfortable. It's a trap, at best.

And while I may not agree with you, thank you for answering the question.

Listen to what he is saying though. You work hard all your life paying taxes. You pay sales taxes, excise taxes, property taxes, state income tax, federal taxes, additional payroll taxes...

Now he wants to increase these taxes and then on top of all of that, if by some miracle you actually have money left over when you die, he wants to increase the tax even more on this when you transfer it to a loved one.

Astray

09-09-2018, 12:34 PM

Listen to what he is saying though. You work hard all your life paying taxes. You pay sales taxes, excise taxes, property taxes, state income tax, federal taxes, additional payroll taxes...

Now he wants to increase these taxes and then on top of all of that, if by some miracle you actually have money left over when you die, he wants to increase the tax even more on this when you transfer it to a loved one.

Yeah, I get that. I don't agree with it.

time4fun

09-09-2018, 01:20 PM

You want the government to be small but you want it to regulate and enforce income inequality. How do you go about that? In your own words?

First- the notion of "small government" is just a rhetorical device that doesn't mean much.

Secondly, tax law and new regulations on stock buy-backs are the best ways to combat income inequality. And neither of those requires a significant change in the "size" of government.

Republican tax policies and SEC policies are the reason why income inequality blew up in this country. We were doing okay up until the 80s. The problems we have with income inequality right now are actually really recent- slashing the tax rate on high income earners and allowing stock buybacks managed to do this much damage in just about 30 years.

And we can reign it all back in within the next 30 years if we commit to two simple changes.

time4fun

09-09-2018, 01:22 PM

Astray

09-09-2018, 02:13 PM

First- the notion of "small government" is just a rhetorical device that doesn't mean much.

Sure, okay.

Tgo01

09-09-2018, 02:23 PM

Secondly, tax law and new regulations on stock buy-backs are the best ways to combat income inequality. And neither of those requires a significant change in the "size" of government.

What would help immediately is if you started giving away half of your income to a poor family of color. But we all know that isn't going to happen don't we?

Tgo01

09-09-2018, 02:35 PM

Um folks, rampant income inequality creates huge inflation problems in addition to sluggish wage growth for 75% of the country.

The tax cuts are a big reason why you're losing earning power. Increasing taxes on the top levels of income- closer to where they were during our best years of economic growth- is what is going to put MORE money in your pockets, not less.

1945:
GDP growth: -1%
Inflation: 2.3%
Top marginal tax rate: 94%

2018:
Projected GDP growth: 2.7%
Inflation: 2.5%
Top marginal tax rate: 37%

Well you've convinced me.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 02:36 PM

First- the notion of "small government" is just a rhetorical device that doesn't mean much.

Secondly, tax law and new regulations on stock buy-backs are the best ways to combat income inequality. And neither of those requires a significant change in the "size" of government.

Republican tax policies and SEC policies are the reason why income inequality blew up in this country. We were doing okay up until the 80s. The problems we have with income inequality right now are actually really recent- slashing the tax rate on high income earners and allowing stock buybacks managed to do this much damage in just about 30 years.

And we can reign it all back in within the next 30 years if we commit to two simple changes.

Oh honey...

ROFLMAO

You cannot have a fair and equitable distribution of wealth handled by a central command. It does not work. That is EXACTLY what you are promoting through increased taxes and reduction on stock buybacks. BTW your buyback argument (if it could even be called that) is flawed and you really need to stop Googling crap to support your theories (AKA stop reading the Atlantic/CNN because that is what your search criteria most likely came up with). Plenty of counter arguments against buybacks but since you don't actually give a reason why buybacks are the problem, except for saying the name in an attempt to sound smart, I'll wait for you to respond what specifically about buybacks are the issue (see below).

Capitalism is based on the idea that you get out of it what you put into it. The wealthier get more wealthy because they make big bets or take great risks. They can also lose everything too. In America, people move up and down income brackets all the time. If we even believe your story (which I doubt), you're an example of someone who has climbed out of poverty and into the 1% along with your 59372622892727267 PhDs.

You like to compare yourself to other people on this board and on LNET about how dumb they are because they may only have a GED or no schooling. Why did you escape poverty and other individuals in a similar position as yours did not?

So a couple of things out of your shart post:

1) Please explain why small government is a rhetorical device?
2) Rather than just throwing out terms, please explain why tax law and stock buybacks regulations will reduce the inequality gap.
3) Please explain what specific GOP and SEC policies are the reason for the inequality gap "damage" in the past 30 years.
4) Please explain how we can rectify the gap in 30 years time.

Now, seeing that you are super duper smart and have a Masters from a prestigious university, I think you are capable of supporting your argument with the appropriate references/facts of your position.

Avaia

09-09-2018, 03:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbVcHmdIFyc

Methais

09-09-2018, 03:37 PM

"Fourscore and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, on this continent, a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal. Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives, that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this. But, in a larger sense, we cannot dedicate, we cannot consecrate—we cannot hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

This thread is stupid. Like really, really stupid.

But this needs to be posted now.

https://i.imgur.com/2R7hdp6.gif

IorakeWarhammer

09-09-2018, 05:50 PM

I met an elderly Indian guy at the local athletic club. The other day he said, "Drew, there's two things you need to know for certain. First, America is the greatest country there ever was and ever will be. Secondly, I can tell you with complete confidence, THERE IS NO GOD."

Astray

09-09-2018, 06:02 PM

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 06:30 PM

Parkbandit

09-09-2018, 06:32 PM

I don't have any idea

Truer words have never been posted by you.

Ever.

Step 1 in any recovery program: Admit you have a problem.

We are now on the road to recovery. Don't fall off that wagon!

Parkbandit

09-09-2018, 06:36 PM

WTF is wrong with you. Why is it ok in your book to tax, again, inheritance? You do realize that productivity decreases when taxes are raised right?

We wouldn't need to raise taxes if entitlements were slashed.

But if they slashed entitlements.. how would they enslave the groups of people that have become dependent upon them!?!?

You don't honestly believe they care about anything but solidifying their voting base.. do you?

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 06:43 PM

But if they slashed entitlements.. how would they enslave the groups of people that have become dependent upon them!?!?

You don't honestly believe they care about anything but solidifying their voting base.. do you?

I think it's less about the voters than the end game. Promise the entitlements to bankrupt the country so you can rebuild it the way you want it.

Parkbandit

09-09-2018, 06:51 PM

I think it's less about the voters than the end game. Promise the entitlements to bankrupt the country so you can rebuild it the way you want it.

You can't get into power and pass your own legislation without the voters.

Fortybox

09-09-2018, 07:13 PM

You can't get into power and pass your own legislation without the voters.

Agreed.

Neveragain

09-10-2018, 07:22 AM