New Rogue... kinda

[Morendeen]

Been a cleric for a long... long time myself. Haven't ever truly put time forth to try the whole melee thing (Except back in the day when clerics COULD melee).

So, this is what I put together. I want to be able to pick really well, and hopefully hunt decently (hopefully up to +5 critters). If I can't hunt that high with full picking, I'd be willing to entertain thoughts of going to 2x picking/disarming/percep if it would make the whole hunting thing a lot better.

As far as Ambushing, what is the best armor to use for that (I'm currently just using double leather, wondering if Brig will work the same and not hinder hiding), and how much armor ranks do I need to be effective?

Well here are the skills

Allad (at level 6)................|Bonus/Rank
Armor Use.........................| 40.....8
Shield Use.........................| 58.....12
Edged Weapons.................| 74.....16
Ambush............................| 58.....12
Physical Fitness..................| 40.....8
Dodging............................| 58.....12
Arcane Symbols.................| 40.....8
Disarming Traps.................| 96.....22
Picking Locks......................| 96.....22
Stalking and Hiding..............| 66.....14
Perception.........................| 96.....22
Climbing.............................| 20.....4
Swimming..........................| 20.....4

And here are my stats (still have a few attempts to fix stats, was looking for a good overall set of stats, not geared for the high level, and not for the low level, kind of mid-range 20ish).

Strength (STR): 92 (21)
Constitution (CON): 67 (8)
Dexterity (DEX): 73 (16)
Agility (AGI): 73 (21)
Discipline (DIS): 62 (1)
Aura (AUR): 71 (10)
Logic (LOG): 62 (6)
Intuition (INT): 63 (6)
Wisdom (WIS): 61 (5)
Influence (INF): 57 (8)

I know there's a lot of posts around about stats and skills and what not, tried to get as much info from them as I could, but I'd just like to see some oppinions, and see if someone can steer me in a bit better of a course :)

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Morendeen]

[Alarke]

You'll need at LEAST 30 ranks of armor for brig, but i would suggest going even heavier than brig... something like hauberk helps a ton. Also you're missing CM altogether, I wouldn't suggest that for a square in order to pick up skills like arcane symbols. The choice is yours, but know it may be very difficult.

[Gan]

My rogue hunts Mahaagra's Tower at 68, OHE/shield user, wears metal breastplate and is 3x in picking as well as fully trained in ambush and almost fully trained in stalking/hiding.

You can have a balanced rogue who can pick, wear heavy armor, and can be an effective hunter in the field. Of course the trade-off is that you'll be lighter on dodge and combat manuevers (probably down to 1x)and probably have to give up stealing but with the metal breast plate I can shrug off most of the physical hits unless its magic but thats what hiding/ambushing and silent strike is for. I suppose its all in what your preferences are in the end.

[Jolena]

My rogue is 51 and she is a mediocre at best picker. I only 1.5x them both and it's only to have something different to do instead of just hunting all the time. She 2x dodge, ambush, hiding/stalking, perception, OHE, 1.7x shield, 1x PF, 2x CM, 1x climb/swim (until 30 in each then I stop), 1x survival/FA (for skinning purposes), has 25 ranks in MIU for imbeds, and has 28 ranks in MOC (I am reaching 35 ranks then I will single for life in that). Course, she's a very physical rogue. Also, she only has 30 ranks in armor for brig and I still have decent dux and can take a good hit without it being major for me. I also master in shadow mastery, feint, and sidebyside because I do a lot of open ambushing.

Sposedly, and this is just what I've heard, arcane symbols aren't that major of a requirement as people think they are. My rogue doesn't have any arcane symbol training and I still manage to disarm scarabs and other traps without any problems. I will probably pick up arcane symbols later on just for the fun of reading and using scrolls but that would be the only reason why.

As far as hiding, it's said that when the changes come out, if you wear over brig you will have to compensate for hiding negative bonuses by going to 3x hiding. As far as when the hiding changes will actually come out, who knows, it's Simu after all. So, I went from augmented chain to brig for her and she's still doing great. It's all a matter of preference I spose as far as what you want to do with your points now or later when the changes come.

[Morendeen]

Hrmmm, well only reason I'm doing Arcane is for scarabs, gonna stop at 10. As far as CMan, 3 people have told me the abilities just aren't good enough to warrant spending all the points in it. Basically, here is what my training regimine is as we speak, maybe that'll help a bit more

1x armor
1x shield
2x OHE
2x ambush
1x PF
2x dodge
1x arcane (until 10 then it stops)
3x disarm
3x pick
3x percep
climbing and swimming whenever I have spare pts

As far as MBP, how much of a difference do you notice between that and Brig?
At the moment, this is all I can do to be trained up for the next level and ready for it once I cross the level up threshhold. So this more or less maxes out my pts.

Thanks again for all the help

[Gan]

Initially I fixskilled my rogue to wear brig but even with FGB his stuns were still greater and the severity of the wounds he received when trying to fight with multiple targets in the room made for a greater frequency in dying. I was frustrated to the point that I revamped his training and have since adjusted him to be able to wear mbp. I'll log him in and give you an example of his abilities. I think I just made 68 with him and have started the next round of training so his skills will reflect a little unevenness until they balance out mid-training.

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Ganalon]

[hectomaner]

ganalon is my hero

[Gan]

This is from a hunter/picker perspective. I used to be edged/ranged but decided to go back to picking since the boxes starting at this age arent ones to pass up. Hope this info helps.

____________________________________
Ganalon (at level 68), your current skill bonuses and ranks (including all modifiers) are:
Skill Name | Current Current
| Bonus Ranks
Armor Use..........................| 167 67
Shield Use.........................| 169 69
Combat Maneuvers...................| 169 69
Edged Weapons......................| 238 138
Ambush.............................| 238 138
Physical Fitness...................| 156 56
Dodging............................| 169 69
Arcane Symbols.....................| 15 3
Magic Item Use.....................| 70 15
Harness Power......................| 45 9
Disarming Traps....................| 310 210
Picking Locks......................| 309 209
Stalking and Hiding................| 286 186
Perception.........................| 307 207
Climbing...........................| 120 30
Swimming...........................| 120 30

Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 4

_____________________________________

Name: Ganalon O'Grady Race: Human Profession: Rogue (shown as: Scoundrel)
Gender: Male Age: 40 Expr: 4221926 Level: 68
Normal (Bonus) ... Enhanced (Bonus)
Strength (STR): 88 (24) ... 88 (24)
Constitution (CON): 85 (17) ... 62 (6) <-- due to invasion deaths
Dexterity (DEX): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
Agility (AGI): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
Discipline (DIS): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
Aura (AUR): 93 (21) ... 93 (21)
Logic (LOG): 90 (25) ... 90 (25)
Intuition (INT): 85 (22) ... 85 (22)
Wisdom (WIS): 95 (22) ... 95 (22)
Influence (INF): 88 (19) ... 88 (19)
_____________________________________

profile ganalon
Name: Ganalon O'Grady
Profession: Scoundrel
Race: Human Gender: Male
He currently has full citizenship in Isle of the Four Winds.
Strongest foe vanquished: a krolvin brigand
Most difficult lock picked: -1010
Most difficult trap disarmed: -413

________________________________________

>cman info
Ganalon, your Combat Maneuver training is as follows:

Skill name Mnemonic Ranks
Shadow Mastery smastery 4
Garrote garrote 1
Silent Strike silentstrike 4
Specialization I wspec1 4
Cutthroat cutthroat 1

Available Combat Maneuver Training Points: 1

[Gan]

Originally posted by hectomaner
ganalon is my hero

roffle

:baa:

[Jolena]

Yeah see, I have MOC training so swarms of creatures don't bother Jolena near as much as they would for someone without it, hence my FGB serves me pretty well. With CM's, it's really a personal preference I think because I do it for the extra DS and well, I love being able to master several CMAN skills. Also, I adore redux, it's freaking nice as hell to have it so I tend to lean more towards the physical side of being a rogue rather then picking. I might change it up later on in her life, but for now I'm happy with it.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Ganalon
Initially I fixskilled my rogue to wear brig but even with FGB his stuns were still greater and the severity of the wounds he received when trying to fight with multiple targets in the room made for a greater frequency in dying. I was frustrated to the point that I revamped his training and have since adjusted him to be able to wear mbp. I'll log him in and give you an example of his abilities. I think I just made 68 with him and have started the next round of training so his skills will reflect a little unevenness until they balance out mid-training.

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Ganalon]

Yeah, even basic hauberk (same ranks as brig) is 10x better than FGB. The damage on the low end is similar, but when you start getting endrolls of 250+, you notice the difference. The only thing that changes beyond that is worrying about death by blood loss, and not crit.

[hectomaner]

DOWN WITH HAUBERK, UP WITH MBP

especially since it has the same training requirements

[Gan]

I saw a set of 7x vhcp mbp for sale but didnt have the 50m the guy wanted for it. I was sad for about 5 minutes, then I went back to work.

:(

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by hectomaner
DOWN WITH HAUBERK, UP WITH MBP

especially since it has the same training requirements

I'd say the same if I didn't wear an uber set of hauberk.

[Morendeen]

Hrmmm, ok, that gives me a decent idea of how to go with training skills. Now, in offense I pull a 54 DS with an Ora shield and regular crappy double leather. Is there any sure fire way to get that to up? It's only seemed to go up 1 DS per level so far, and well, it means if I'm in a room with multiple mobs I'm toast

*Edit: Also one more thing. I was considering switching to 2 handers, as far as cost, wil I probably have to pull ranks from elsewhere, and if so, what exactly does 2x picking and lore allow me to do, just my own boxes? My own boxes and a bit more?

Again thanks for the help all

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Morendeen]

[Gan]

If you want DS then drop to 2x picking/traps and go 2x shield. Otherwise by going 1x shields, youre DS is going to blow, thus the need for heavier armor.... not to mention the redux when you get older will help make the difference. Hiding is also your best friend. Only thing is, since you're young, its all going to suck until you get older.

By going 2x picking/traps, you'll be able to pick ~80% of what you hunt up to over hunting by 5 to 10 trainings based on my experience when Ganalon was a 2x picker/trapper.

2 handers stink because of the limitations on ambushing. If anything, go 2 weapon combat and swing 2 crit/damage weighted short swords. If I were experimenting thats what I'd try.

[Vad]

Originally posted by Morendeen
Hrmmm, well only reason I'm doing Arcane is for scarabs, gonna stop at 10. As far as CMan, 3 people have told me the abilities just aren't good enough to warrant spending all the points in it. Basically, here is what my training regimine is as we speak, maybe that'll help a bit more

1x armor
1x shield
2x OHE
2x ambush
1x PF
2x dodge
1x arcane (until 10 then it stops)
3x disarm
3x pick
3x percep
climbing and swimming whenever I have spare pts

As far as MBP, how much of a difference do you notice between that and Brig?
At the moment, this is all I can do to be trained up for the next level and ready for it once I cross the level up threshhold. So this more or less maxes out my pts.

Thanks again for all the help

And from Jolena..
"With CM's, it's really a personal preference I think because I do it for the extra DS and well, I love being able to master several CMAN skills."

Quick question here - I really didn't think (wasn't aware) much had changed with combat maneuvers in the migration to GS4. In GS3, I always remembered CM as having been useful to my character for the ability to dodge/mitigate the damage of maneuver based attacks, increase crit ranking, and mostly for the +1 AS added for every two trains in CM. I don't remember a DS bonus, but I may not have known. What happened to the AS bonus? I only ask because I don't see it mentioned anywhere, and it has always been a huge reason for me doubling up in CM. A 75th train rogue who does that, compared to one who doesn't train it at all, will have (of course) +75 AS over rogue #2. Even comparing against a single trainer, it's a difference of 32.5 pts. Has this changed?

-V

[Stunseed]

Nope, you still get +1 AS per two ranks of CM. I believe the DS portion of it was slotted into Dodging ranks, or somesuch. Don't quote me on the second part.

[AnticorRifling]

My training is slightly different than Ganalon.

Basically it's 80 armor ranks, 1x shield, 2x ohe, 2x CM, 2x dodge, 1x PT, 2x ambush, 2x hide, 2x perception, 2x disarm, 3x pick, and know 404 as well as some AS and HP.