PETA Smarter than the Government?!?!?

Lobsters: The pain that will never Heal. (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/02/15/lobster.pain.ap/index.html)

[Drew2]

Are you lonely Stanley?

Because these attempts for attention are getting more and more desperate (lame).

For every animal you don't eat, I eat three.

- Arkans

[GSTamral]

PETA is just like any other cult in America. They are basically domestic terrorists who took an idea, (and a nice idea at that), and turned it into a cultish hate vision. They believe they are the protectors of the animals and nature.

For every good thing PETA does, such as protest the inhumane ways chickens are killed at KFC, they do in excess of a hundred stupid things, such as

1) Sending a letter to Yasser Arafat condoning terrorist violence so long as goats are no longer used to deliver the bomb. Killing children is ok, killing goats are not.
2) Keeping a convicted arsonist on payroll. They believe themselves to be better than the law. Such is the tendency of stupid people needing to feel they are important and have a purpose in life.
3) They spend less than 1 percent of their funding actually helping animals. They are an aggressive, cult-like media pitbull. They seek knowledge through violence and hatred.
4) They threaten the lives and family of their own staff who do not become vegan and adopt their principles.
5) They are like bible salesman with their pitch. They simply won't shut the fuck up and let people go about their daily lives, and then they complain to authorities when anti-PETA protestors eat burgers one step off of their property.
6) They don't understand that human beings are born omnivores. That is how we evolved through nature. We have both molars as well as incisors and fangs.


They have essentially twisted a noble vision (partially because they are run by "scientists" with absolutely no scientific qualifications, they conduct research with an extreme bias, they disregard the AMA and any other legitimate organization that says anything to counter their own "research" (I parenthesize their research because it is so inaccurate and biased, they might as well have a 4 year old conduct it for them), and they are run by people and entertainers, many of whom don't even know what college is, let alone attended one.

They are a moderately disruptive group of domestic terrorists. And they are stupid.

It's sad because anyone who's anybody that's cooked lobster knows that these poor arthropods definately feel *something* when they are placed inside boiling water. Ergo, I feel in this instance, PETA > Government.

And they hate blacks.

- Arkans

[Bobmuhthol]

If you know what you're doing, they get knocked the fuck out when they're put in and die extremely quickly afterward.

Boo. Hoo.

[GSTamral]

Stanley, judging instinctual reaction to heat and calling it pain quite simply illustrates a lack of education on your part.

Ever cook bread you stupid shit? Yeast expands, even more violently. OMG OMG the POOR FUCKING YEAST!!!

Originally posted by Tayre
Are you lonely Stanley?

Because these attempts for attention are getting more and more desperate (lame).

HOLY SELECTIVE ATTENTION (http://forum.gsplayers.com/viewthread.php?tid=12749&page=1)

:lol: Now, seriously, shut up and stop being such a Tayre.

:bye:

Originally posted by GSTamral
Stanley, judging instinctual reaction to heat and calling it pain quite simply illustrates a lack of education on your part.

Ever cook bread you stupid shit? Yeast expands, even more violently. OMG OMG the POOR FUCKING YEAST!!!

GSTamral, I can use qualitative reasoning to deduct, if you were placed in a boiling pot of water and began flailing around madly as tens of thousands of nerve endings recorded the pain THAT, in fact, this could be equivocated to an anaerobic organism.

[GSTamral]

using bad reasoning, which I expect from PETA support. Many animals and organisms that have no ability to feel have violent reactions under certain circumstances, or when placed in certain types of environments. When baked, yeast expands and "flails" even more. Light a match under a spider and it will run as fast as it can away from you. Pour burning wax on a cockroach and it will curl into a ball and writhe around. Equating reaction to pain and feeling is but one of the hundreds of stupid assumptions PETA makes. Absolutely NO scientific basis whatsoever.

Having sensory nerve endings does not mean an animal feels pain. It takes certain brain activity for that to happen. Worms have sensory endings to let them know they've been cut in half. That triggers another mechanism to allow them to heal and regrow.

Holy shit you're a dumbass....

Originally posted by GSTamral
using bad reasoning, which I expect from PETA support. Many animals and organisms that have no ability to feel have violent reactions under certain circumstances, or when placed in certain types of environments. When baked, yeast expands and "flails" even more. Light a match under a spider and it will run as fast as it can away from you. Pour burning wax on a cockroach and it will curl into a ball and writhe around. Equating reaction to pain and feeling is but one of the hundreds of stupid assumptions PETA makes. Absolutely NO scientific basis whatsoever.

Having sensory nerve endings does not mean an animal feels pain. It takes certain brain activity for that to happen. Worms have sensory endings to let them know they've been cut in half. That triggers another mechanism to allow them to heal and regrow.

Holy shit you're a dumbass....

Holy shit, because lobsters sure are pseudocoelomates.

Lobsters are delicious. I support boiling them alive.

- Arkans

[GSTamral]

Stanley, show me one, just one study, conducted by actual scientists not involved with PETA OR an ANTI-PETA group, that proves that lobsters or crabs show physical sensory perception in the form of pain? Because I can show you many that say they not only do not, but cannot given their brain structure.

[Jenisi]

Seafood is good.

Originally posted by GSTamral
Stanley, show me one, just one study, conducted by actual scientists not involved with PETA OR an ANTI-PETA group, that proves that lobsters or crabs show physical sensory perception in the form of pain? Because I can show you many that say they not only do not, but cannot given their brain structure.

I could not find any articles that would give me any idea as to whether arthropods do in fact have sensory cortexes.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Pour burning wax on a cockroach and it will curl into a ball and writhe around.Ew, cockroaches. Yum, wax.

edit: No one is smarter than government! Go count trees in Siberi.... Alaska!!

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Latrinsorm]

[Jazuela]

The lobster is the "cockroach of the sea." As such, I don't care if it feels pain or not. Just like a cockroach, it's best served dead.

[Kainen]

Hey, if animals weren't meant to be eaten they wouldn't have been made of meat.

Speaking of lobster...




http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/lobster.php


- Arkans

[Kuyuk]

People like Tamral are idiots.

K.

[Caiylania]

I could care less about PETA, but I don't and never have eaten lobster for this very reason. Who the fuck are we to claim they can't feel pain? We don't know everything that goes into what other creatures feel physically. In my opinion, its just wrong to boil ANYthing alive. Its fucked up. Will people always do it? Yes.

But don't bash people who err on the side of caring. I would rather NOT boil them alive in the chance they feel pain rather than do so in the chance they don't.

I eat meat, I have no issues with eating meat. I don't think the animals (any of them) should be tortured first. IMHO

[Nakiro]

Originally posted by Caiylania
I could care less about PETA, but I don't and never have eaten lobster for this very reason. Who the fuck are we to claim they can't feel pain? We don't know everything that goes into what other creatures feel physically. In my opinion, its just wrong to boil ANYthing alive. Its fucked up. Will people always do it? Yes.

But don't bash people who err on the side of caring. I would rather NOT boil them alive in the chance they feel pain rather than do so in the chance they don't.

I eat meat, I have no issues with eating meat. I don't think the animals (any of them) should be tortured first. IMHO

HAHAHAHA>

If you eat pork, eggs, or poultry you are eating animal or animal products which were harnested in a much, much crueler fashion than simply being boiled alive.

Compared to geese and the above mentioned, lobsters have it well made.

And yes, it is well known that all the above do feel and respond to pain.

[StrayRogue]

Agreed. Having worked on a farm as a boy, seeing the conditions that cattle and sheep are put under even before they are culled was pretty nasty. The only meat, however, I refuse to consume is dog. Anything else I've probably tried. I'd probably wouldn't say no to human either.

[Kainen]

I wouldn't eat human.. look at the crap we eat for god's sake. Ok I wouldn't eat human regardless. Dog doesn't taste all that great anyway.

[StrayRogue]

Dogs are better than humans. Besides human meat tastes like chicken (apparently).

[Nakiro]

Stray I wasn't even thinking of the family owned and operated farms. I'm taking about the much more common factory commerical farming that goes on all accross the world.

Also, I would try dog but there are so many different kinds and I have a feeling none of them are really going to taste better than bacon.

Human though, well, it depends on if I knew the person and what part of them I was eating. I wouldn't feel comfortable eating someone I didn't know.

[StrayRogue]

Oh yeah totally Nakiro. It all reminds me of that Simpsons episode where Lisa turns vegetarian. "Lets look at the high density feed-lots"...

[Gan]

with a spokesman like this, who wouldnt be a member?

edited to add that my image isnt uploading for some reason (*(&^(&*^%$^$%$)

so here's the link:

PETA & Dennis Rodman (http://www.furisdead.com/feat-rodman2.asp)

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Ganalon]

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Ganalon]

[Jazuela]

Something that strikes me..oddly.

PETA has a donation program where you can donate used fur to the homeless.

So - homeless people get to wear mink, but the rest of us don't.

How come it's bad for me to buy a used fur at a rummage sale or consignment shop, but good for a homeless person to wear it?

I don't support buying new fur, because there's already plenty of used fur available so there's no need to kill animals just to feel luxurious. Not to mention that used fur in good condition feels just as wonderful and costs a lot less.

Hubby won't let me wear any fur, and I really don't mind since my leather coat with fake-fur trim is warm enough and looks good.

I just don't understand the concept behind it. Real fur is bad - unless you're homeless? Why not just start a campaign to promote buying used furs? And how do these PETA people know that the people they're yelling at during their walk-a-thons aren't wearing furs that were purchased used, or passed down from family members?

Or does that not matter, since the people they're yelling at aren't homeless?

I just don't get it.

I think someone said on AMerican Idol that human tastes like bacon.

- Arkans

[Back]

The Meatrix (http://www.themeatrix.com/).

[Back]

Originally posted by Arkans
I think someone said on AMerican Idol that human tastes like bacon.

- Arkans

Saw an HBO special on cannibals and yes, its been compared to pork, and sushi.

Damn, I love sushi too. I'm all set with eating human though. Definatly not a natural thing to be doing.

- Arkans

[CrystalTears]

That's why humans are referred to as long pig, because that's kinda what humans taste like. Not that I would presonally know this. :D

BTW, PETA can kiss my ass. They're a bunch of self-righteous assholes.

[Edited on 2/18/2005 by CrystalTears]

LOBSTER STICKS TO MAGNET!!!

- Arkans

[Wezas]

On a bumper sticker I saw the other day:

"I didn't crawl up to the top of the food chain to eat plants"

Also, I'm ashamed PETA is based in my state :weird:

[xtc]

Originally posted by GSTamral
Stanley, judging instinctual reaction to heat and calling it pain quite simply illustrates a lack of education on your part.

Ever cook bread you stupid shit? Yeast expands, even more violently. OMG OMG the POOR FUCKING YEAST!!!

I have read some of your posts Tamral and I have seen you used these insulting tactics against someone who shall remain nameless. In those cases I can't blame you as he asks for it and he is fundamentally incapable of admitting he is wrong. Even in instances where he obviously is.

However here you're insulting Stanley when has done nothing to provoke it. If you disagree with him simply state the reasons why and why you believe his reasoning/conclusions to be false.

I can't argue in this area as I have no science background. However I have a hard time believing the lobster’s reaction isn’t pain based. What other reason would there be to such a strong reaction to stimuli?

[Edited on 2-19-2005 by xtc]

[Latrinsorm]

Pain implies that the response is unpleasant, rather than neutral, assuming that lobsters are incapable of kinkiness.

edit:


Originally posted by Jazuela
Hubby won't let me wear any fur, and I really don't mind since my leather coat with fake-fur trim Wow.

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Latrinsorm]

[The Korean]

Ok, I'm never getting stranded on an island or any other place with no food with you people.

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by xtc
I can't argue in this area as I have no science background. However I have a hard time believing the lobster’s reaction isn’t pain based. What other reason would there be to such a strong reaction to stimuli?

Not all stimuli is pain-induced. When you get checked for reflexes at the doctor and your knee jerks, do you shriek and scream in pain? More or less the same concept, I'd wager. Kinda.

Incidently, I spoke to a fisherman friend of mine and he said that no, they don't suffer pain when they are boiled. They don't have vocal cords so there isn't a way for them to make that shrieking sound. He said it's fear, since they are in trouble. Same principle of them dropping their claws. Just a defensive mechanism.

[peam]

My vegetarian streak hits one month as of tomorrow.

When do I get to start preaching?

[Caiylania]

Heh, I realize animals are not all treated as they should be. That is something I hope changes. But like others have said, I don't deny we are omnivores. I don't hate a lion for killing (rather painfully) its prey. Just feel that we are a step above that and should make their short lives humane. I'm not perfect, I eat meat knowing there is good likely hood what I'm eating suffered before death. But I'm not going to go to the tank, point at a lobster, and order it cooked knowing they are boiling it alive. It's at least one point I can stand on.

(ps: when we lived in the states we bought food from recognized humanE farms. Many places are starting to advertise and work on having much better living conditions. Kind of in a way how many tuna cans Advertise Dolphin friendly. Though watching fish "drown" in air isn't a fav of mine either. Loose loose for me :( )

* human to humanE
i don't buy meat from human farms hehe

[Edited on 2-18-2005 by Caiylania]

[GSTamral]

All living beings react to stimuli in their environment. It doesn't mean they can feel. PETA activists are basically morons who know nothing about most anything and are for the most part, insignificant. But just as all weak people need to find a justification for themselves and a set of beliefs that they can preach to others to make themselves feel worthy, and in some cases, uberworthy and righteous, PETA creates for them that sense of worth. That they are the protectors of nature and of wildlife and that we need to treat all animals like people.

That's not nature. Human beings would not have incisors and fangs if we were meant to be vegetarian.

I have nothing against people who preach for animal rights. I have something strongly against an organization of morons who claim they are superior to science, nature, and everything else in their quest to rid the world of infidels.

PETA only slightly < Osama Bin Laden

[Hulkein]

Originally posted by peam
My vegetarian streak hits one month as of tomorrow.

When do I get to start preaching?

Hahahaha, hipster.

[Latrinsorm]

Interesting things I learned from this thread:

PETA apparently killed Tamral's dog.
Caiylania <3's teh soylent green.

[Jazuela]

A lobsterman in Boston once told me that the sound the lobster makes when you boil it alive is just air passing through its body. He said if you dunk the lobster in the other way around it won't make that sound.

As for the leather issue - the animal isn't being bred for its leather. Every single part of a cow is used, nothing is wasted. Not like mink, which is bred and killed ONLY for its pelt and the rest of it discarded.

I can definitely understand my husband's issue with that.

Personally I'd rather wear mink :)

[peam]

Originally posted by Hulkein

Originally posted by peam
My vegetarian streak hits one month as of tomorrow.

When do I get to start preaching?

Hahahaha, hipster.

The diet comes with the glasses.

Telling the ladies you're vegetarian almost always ensures some action in the meat department later on that night, so I'm not totally missing out.

[DianaBanana]

Not this lady Peam. I'd just laugh at you and offer you a burger.

;)

Mmmmm....burger....

[xtc]

Originally posted by CrystalTears

Originally posted by xtc
I can't argue in this area as I have no science background. However I have a hard time believing the lobster’s reaction isn’t pain based. What other reason would there be to such a strong reaction to stimuli?

Not all stimuli is pain-induced. When you get checked for reflexes at the doctor and your knee jerks, do you shriek and scream in pain? More or less the same concept, I'd wager. Kinda.

Incidently, I spoke to a fisherman friend of mine and he said that no, they don't suffer pain when they are boiled. They don't have vocal cords so there isn't a way for them to make that shrieking sound. He said it's fear, since they are in trouble. Same principle of them dropping their claws. Just a defensive mechanism.


Ok but why such a violent reaction? Not a simple repsonse to stimuli like a knee jerking once but a violent thrashing.

I understand the Norwegian study has determined that lobsters can learn and that they have a clear and constant vocabulary and are able to identify one another as individuals. The study also concludes that the violent reaction that lobsters have when submerged in boiling water is an escape mechanism. If this is true why don't the lobster react this way when put in a small tank of room temperature water?

I don't agree with PETA's gorilla tactics or extremist agenda, however one has to question the objectivity of a study done by a nation that has fishing as one of its major industries.

[CrystalTears]

Because there is no obvious threat with room temperature water. That's basically what they live in. What reason would they have to freak out? Boiling water is out of the norm, so it's their alert that something isn't right. That doesn't automatically mean that they're in pain, just panicked.

[xtc]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
Because there is no obvious threat with room temperature water. That's basically what they live in. What reason would they have to freak out? Boiling water is out of the norm, so it's their alert that something isn't right. That doesn't automatically mean that they're in pain, just panicked.

I freely admit a lack of knowledge in this area. So I went googling to see what I could learn about lobsters and the sensory and nerve systems. It seems that they have well developed sensory and nervous systems. They don't possess any receptors akin to our human pain receptors. However other zoologists have also questioned this response to stimuli.

"Dr. John Baker, a zoologist at the University of Oxford and a fellow of the Royal Society, has stated that their sensory organs are highly developed, their nervous systems complex, their nerve cells very similar to our own, and their responses to certain stimuli immediate and vigorous. Dr. Baker therefore believes that lobster, for example, can feel pain. He is also clear that the standard method of killing lobster - dropping them into boiling water - can cause pain for as long as two minutes"

[Edited on 2-19-2005 by xtc]

[Back]

Oh the great mysteries of life. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? How big is the universe and is it collapsing or expanding? Do lobsters feel pain?

Unless lobsters start talking, or we figure out how to hear what they say, we may never know, regardless of that study. Seems to me that anything with a nervous system could feel pain. The lobster has to die, but I see no reason to prolong it.

PETA is a good idea. As always, extremists go too far. As the highest evolved species on this planet, we bear a responsibility to live in harmony with all the life on it with us, not to mention the ecosystem/s that support us.

Is boiling a lobster alive a bad thing? Probably if you are a lobster.

[CrystalTears]

So is this about finding out if they feel pain in general, or if they are being treated inhumanely because they are being dropped in boiling water? Cause let me tell ya, anything that gets killed is not a happy camper, with or without pain, so if you're not into the thought of seeing animals suffer, may as well stop eating anything with meat substance altogether.

I'm all for treating animals as humanely as possible, but c'mon.. lobsters?? They are the cockroaches of the sea. Do you really think about whether regular roaches are screaming with pain because you stepped on them, or dipped them in chocolate for those *shudder* insect delicacies? This is just the oddest thread I've seen in a long time.

[DianaBanana]

I love lobsters, they taste so good but I cant pick one out of the tank at a restaurant cause I feel bad. I always order and let the guy in the kitchen decide who dies.

:yes:

[xtc]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
So is this about finding out if they feel pain in general, or if they are being treated inhumanely because they are being dropped in boiling water? Cause let me tell ya, anything that gets killed is not a happy camper, with or without pain, so if you're not into the thought of seeing animals suffer, may as well stop eating anything with meat substance altogether.

I'm all for treating animals as humanely as possible, but c'mon.. lobsters?? They are the cockroaches of the sea. Do you really think about whether regular roaches are screaming with pain because you stepped on them, or dipped them in chocolate for those *shudder* insect delicacies? This is just the oddest thread I've seen in a long time.

For me this thread is about do lobsters feel pain? If they do, dropping them in a vat of boiling water seems a cruel way to cook them.

I think as mammals with the capability for higher reasoning and compassion it should our collective goal to minimize the pain/stress of any animal we kill for food. Sure the lobster isn't the prettiest thing in the whole world and it is easier to feel compassion when dogs are being treated in a cruel fashion. However I think humans are capable of seeing beyond our personal likes and dislikes when addressing an issue.

[Back]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I'm all for treating animals as humanely as possible, but c'mon.. lobsters?? They are the cockroaches of the sea. Do you really think about whether regular roaches are screaming with pain because you stepped on them, or dipped them in chocolate for those *shudder* insect delicacies? This is just the oddest thread I've seen in a long time.

I’ve seen the king of all lobsters. I couldn’t take a picture because it was in a huge tank. But let me tell you, that thing was very conscious of what was going on around it. There may be no man alive who could wrestle that thing into a boiling pot alone. The exception perhaps, but still.

[CrystalTears]

I guess that's where you all are confusing me. What made you think they weren't aware of their surroundings and happenings before? Is there a living animal that isn't aware of what's going on besides those with no nerves?

[Nakiro]

Sponges.

[Nakiro]

Steps:
1. Use kitchen shears to cut off crab's face, slicing about 1/4 inch behind the eyes.

2. Pull up one side of the soft upper shell, leaving it intact, and remove the spongy gills underneath.

3. Do the same on the crab's other side.

4. Turn over and pull off belly flap, or "apron," which is triangle-shaped.

5. Rinse crab with cold water.

6. Pat dry.

7. Cook crab as desired.


Tips:
Prepare crabs while they're still alive.

Soft-shell crabs can be eaten whole, so you don't need to remove their shells after cooking.