OFFCIAL: McKyren's End Hunting Area Update

[Maerit]

Whispers abound that powerful new creatures have been spotted in the caverns of Fangthryn in the Eye of V'Tull on Teras Isle. What has caused these creatures to awaken and emerge remains unknown but adventurers are advised to take caution when exploring this hitherto abandoned cave.



As a small hunting ground update, the previously empty McKyren's End area in the Eye of V'Tull has been populated with two new/updated creatures: greater skayls and steam dervishes. These creatures are meant to fill the low-mid 80's level hunting gap currently existing on Teras.

Coase

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/3132#

[Astray]

Prepare to be RT locked into 30000 seconds of RT.

Also, Savants RSN.

[Maerit]

It would be nice if you searched a skayl with blessed gloves, that it would block the curse.

[wetsand]

Nice little QoL improvement for Teras. Might have to explore with my monk.

[Astray]

Yeah, pardon me but this game isn't designed around fun or even user feedback. So I have some serious reservations when they come out with a 'new' area. I guarantee it's gonna be completely not worth it, unless they arbitrarily decide to make loot somehow worthwhile in the area. At reasonable drop rates, not that "once a day" or "yeah the item totally exists" levels of horse shits with the cores.

Don't hold your breath, man. You'll die. Of disappointment.

Also, Wyrom is a faggot.

[Taernath]

It would be nice if you searched a skayl with blessed gloves, that it would block the curse.

It's more like the heart is so hot it fuses to your hand.

[drauz]

It's more like the heart is so hot it fuses to your hand.

Ice flaring gloves.

[Tgo01]

Also, Wyrom is a faggot.

Okay so I gotta know. What brought about this animosity towards Wyrom? Or is this mostly you joking?

Not judging either way, just curious :p

[Astray]

Okay so I gotta know. What brought about this animosity towards Wyrom? Or is this mostly you joking?

Not judging either way, just curious :p

Half serious, half joking.

I just don't like the way he and pretty much a majority of Simu write off legitimate concerns as "You ungrateful people are the reason we don't hire coders." It's generally the arrogance that gets me annoyed at that entire company but Wyrom, as a face, is pretty much who I vent it on.

[Tgo01]

Half serious, half joking.

I just don't like the way he and pretty much a majority of Simu write off legitimate concerns as "You ungrateful people are the reason we don't hire coders." It's generally the arrogance that gets me annoyed at that entire company but Wyrom, as a face, is pretty much who I vent it on.

Makes sense, I completely agree.

[Astray]

Makes sense, I completely agree.

One of these days I'm gonna make it to Simucon, call Wyrom a faggot and be banned ever going to a player funded event that the COMPANY puts up a Kickstarter for.

Ugh. Fuck. It literally just bugs the fuck out of me that they get away with so much bullshit.

[Tgo01]

One of these days I'm gonna make it to Simucon, call Wyrom a faggot and be banned ever going to a player funded event that the COMPANY puts up a Kickstarter for.

Ugh. Fuck. It literally just bugs the fuck out of me that they get away with so much bullshit.

People are addicted. Simu has been selling digital crack since 1988.

[Tgo01]

Development GameMaster Hiring 2018

As mentioned at Simucon, we're looking to hire some potential GameMasters for the Development team. As a member of the Technical Systems Development team, you will contribute to some of the core systems of GemStone. Some of these systems include: professions, combat, creatures, and societies. You will be expected to contribute via designing and implementing updates to these systems.

After basic GM training, we will get you up to speed on coding in GSL (our proprietary scripting language), allowing you to begin creating with the guidance of an experienced GM. Although referral shifts are not required for this team, you may on occasion be consulted to investigate code-related issues. You are expected to have a strong interest in, and/or understanding of, the underlying mechanics of the game. We do not expect you to be an expert on all areas of the game (no one is), but you should be able to demonstrate strong mechanical knowledge of some aspect of the game (perhaps of your favored profession), as well as being willing and able to learn new game mechanics when needed.

We do not require that you have professional coding experience prior to being hired. Having prior coding or programming experience is an asset, but the most important strength to demonstrate in your application is a strong grasp of game design principles, alongside the enthusiasm to learn and having the free time available to do so.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/3133

Posted today. Time to get your applications in!

They never hire me. I can't imagine why :(

[Astray]

I kinda agree with this one. What makes me hesitate in going is the possibility that the company is making a profit off of what is entirely a player and volunteer driven event. If all proceeds went into the event it would be cool though.

I'm willing to bet a finger, fucking Yakuza style, that they are indeed making money off this play funded event. I will take out my fucking cigar cutter and lop off a finger if this isn't true.

[Maerit]

The new hunting area consists of a grand total of 2 new creatures. It occupies rooms on the map that already existed, but had remained empty. This is the absolute minimal amount of effort required to deliver content in order to remove the gap from 70-90.

Unfortunately, the area leave something to be desired.

1. Greater Skayls: These creatures cast Earthen Fury and normal ewave, are probably exactly level 80 based on their stats. I did receive a bounty for them at level 85. Hopefully I will get no more at level 86. They have no loot other than a cursed heart that also burns your hand off. The heart sold for around 2k.
2. Steam Dervish: These are melee combat creatures that attack very fast, will hamstring, and use bucklers which appear to be around the mid 80s. They will mstrike also. These creatures do have loot, and can be searched. HOWEVER - they also have the same "retribution" ability as fire mages, which means every time you kill them you get a stacking wound. So, you kill a couple, and you'll be bleeding very shortly. You can avoid this by 1) Being an empath, 2) being in hiding or invisible when the target dies and 3) having a familiar or pet of some kind deal the finishing blow.

Basically, this is area is extremely annoying to hunt. Also level 71 fire mages are roaming around doing their thing. I had to run back and forth between town healing with herbs, and never frying because you are ALWAYS going to be injured. It's just painful. At least the chronomage trip was free this time around.

[Astray]

Wow.

[zephyrii]

all the new hunting grounds absolutely suck with the craptastic additions they make in the spirit of "making it challenging" they say. confluence? moving RT, auto-dispels, ridiculous deaths. sanctum? no idea - it's a pain to even get there

i don't know a single recent hunting ground that was remotely fun

[wetsand]

The really sad part is they already have a large (capped none the less) hunting area just collecting dust.

[Maerit]

Sanctum is only annoying because you need to stay out there and continue to hunt or rest in the sanctuary instead of going back to town as soon as you fry. Otherwise, it's' a pretty solid hunting area.

[zephyrii]

The really sad part is they already have a large (capped none the less) hunting area just collecting dust.

which one are you referring to? only things that come to mind for me is nelemar (popular), rift (still common nowadays? not sure, haven't hunted there in a while), otf (busier than warclaidh's wallet), confluence (aka methias's private hunting ground), sanctum (no idea how busy this gets)....anything else missing aside from instanced grounds?

[wetsand]

which one are you referring to? only things that come to mind for me is nelemar (popular), rift (still common nowadays? not sure, haven't hunted there in a while), otf (busier than warclaidh's wallet), confluence (aka methias's private hunting ground), sanctum (no idea how busy this gets)....anything else missing aside from instanced grounds?

Lich's Landing.

[Astray]

In their defense none of the GMs are trained game developers who have any real experience designing. If they had the development team from Bethesda write up a hunting area sure it’ll be top notch fun but this is a small company with a fanatical player base with an all volunteer staff, it is what it is.

That's their own fault. If they stop relying on people to do what they should do from the start, they wouldn't be in this stagnated mess of development. They wouldn't be having to rely on people with downtime to code their game. I honestly doubt that even a third of what the game makes in revenue gets reinvested back into it and that is hugely a problem. I could probably run the entirety of Gemstone on a 5 year old server, no problem.

[Donquix]

Lich's Landing.

"here's this capped hunting area people seem to like. better get rid of it"

[Winter]

"here's this capped hunting area people seem to like. better get rid of it"



Does anyone know why is was scrapped?

[Velfi]

Does anyone know why is was scrapped?

Fun is tied to billing.

[Donquix]

Does anyone know why is was scrapped?

It was always meant to be temporary for the quest. But it had
1) capped hunting that wasn't fucking terrible
2) undead around levels 60-80

two things the game just can't fucking have, apparently. Special internet-fist-bump to whoever it was that when Mestys was talking on the twitch stream about designing areas and he was like "well the biggest thing needs to be the area has to fill a need", and someone in chat was like "uh...undead gap?"

[Methais]

Fun is tied to billing.

This is the most true statement ever posted on the PC.

[audioserf]

Using skayl which have always been one of the most obnoxious and pointless creatures in the game is fucking amazing. I bet you even get loot bounty tasks for them too. What a joke.

[audioserf]

Fun is tied to billing.

This is amazing.

[Hymore246]

Well, they only got one hit this time:

Gemstone IV Announcement and Teaser Checklist

[ ] New feature is behind a paywall
[ ] Added a new in-game currency
[x] New feature is a good idea but is ruined by nerfs or GM apathy
[ ] System/Mechanic overhaul ends up being a nerf
[ ] Lack of information on new feature/item
[ ] Expects the player base to figure out how the new feature works with no help
[ ] Event/Feature/Item ends up being a bait and switch
[ ] New/changed system requires a massive time investment before getting anything worthwhile (carrot on a stick)
[ ] False advertising
[ ] Minor buff/change makes the player base paranoid
[ ] New item requires multiple tiers on unlocking
[ ] Last unlock tier on new item is an "auction level" unlock
[ ] Highly sought after item can only be gotten from a "slot machine" game at a paid event
[ ] Blatant lying by a GM
[ ] New cash shop merchandise


It's kinda amazing that the creatures they would pick would be so terrible. The Skayl is a the big one since it's just one big trap to kill you when you do something you normally do. HOW DARE YOU SEARCH YOUR KILL!!! At least the dervish doesn't insta-kill you.

I don't get Simu or the GMs. At this point, they are so disconnected from the player base that any change they make is met with suspicion. They don't listen and they really think they know better than everyone else.
Also, I wouldn't touch this game's code with a 10 foot pole. I guarantee you this game is build on a massive amount of legacy code that they can't update without breaking the game. I don't they even have the money to do it if they wanted to.
And if you want to talk about Savants, it's been like 20 years since they announced them? In that time, any person could have created them. This includes going to school to learn about coding, getting work experience, learning the GS4 system, play testing the profession and all the changes and then releasing it. I refuse to believe it is THAT hard to create Savants given how much time has passed.

In closing, I leave you with this:

https://i.imgflip.com/2fwxfl.jpg (https://imgflip.com/i/2fwxfl)

[audioserf]

They genuinely do not seem to care about what the player base wants at all. They have their own vision and will absolutely be DAMNED if they'll deviate from it. This ongoing insistence that every new hunting area has to have some wait time/RT timesink or just insane maneuvers/unavoidable injury stacking is the antithesis of fun and the definition of tedium. Like I genuinely don't want them to release any new capped content because it's just going to suck and not even be close to worth the time to hunt. Even OTF with its disarming, fading, and looting mechanics is like a dream compared to the Confluence/Sanctum (was the stupid wagon ride really necessary? Really?)

[khorpulent]

all the new hunting grounds absolutely suck with the craptastic additions they make in the spirit of "making it challenging" they say. confluence? moving RT, auto-dispels, ridiculous deaths. sanctum? no idea - it's a pain to even get there

i don't know a single recent hunting ground that was remotely fun

I actually think the Sanctum is one of the most fun hunting areas in the whole game. It's the only place I've found that really compares with warcamps in terms of excitement. I guess when I say "excitement" I mean ridiculous swarms of deadly creatures.

[khorpulent]

They genuinely do not seem to care about what the player base wants at all. They have their own vision and will absolutely be DAMNED if they'll deviate from it. This ongoing insistence that every new hunting area has to have some wait time/RT timesink or just insane maneuvers/unavoidable injury stacking is the antithesis of fun and the definition of tedium. Like I genuinely don't want them to release any new capped content because it's just going to suck and not even be close to worth the time to hunt. Even OTF with its disarming, fading, and looting mechanics is like a dream compared to the Confluence/Sanctum (was the stupid wagon ride really necessary? Really?)

The real question is, why are Volners the only ones who get to go to all of the capped hunting areas with ease. But as for the Sanctum, the periapts really do make it quite easy. Although dying in the Sanctum certainly sucks...

[audioserf]

Take out the transportation crap and I'll be more interested in it. Honestly it's 2018, nobody wants to spend time traveling in this game. If you can't ;go2 there quickly it isn't worthwhile to me. Yeah there's the periapt mechanic but it isn't super reliable if you can't stay in the field that long. It's a deadly hunting area with plenty of risk just hunting it, please let us just ;go2 in and out for crying out loud.

edit: and while I'm at it, does the Rift still need the dropzone wait? It's already an out of the way zone, and there's the spirit drain, and the self-circle mechanics. Just make it so you take the final step in the sphere and boom you're in the Rift. Timesinks for the sake of timesinks are honestly the worst.

[peam]

lol greater skayls

[audioserf]

peam if you want to hunt this moronic new area I'll heal your tedium injuries at the statue and make mad EXP. Thanks GMs!

[Tgo01]

edit: and while I'm at it, does the Rift still need the dropzone wait? It's already an out of the way zone, and there's the spirit drain, and the self-circle mechanics. Just make it so you take the final step in the sphere and boom you're in the Rift. Timesinks for the sake of timesinks are honestly the worst.

I remember when I used to time how long it took to drop into the Rift. I think the record was over 5 minutes. Yeah 5 minutes of my character literally being stuck in a room without being able to do anything just for the chance to hunt.

[nocturnix]

Alot of haters on this thread.

Great way to encourage the GMs to make us new stuff. Shit all over whatever they do, all of the time. Smart!

But from the reviews I read in this thread of people actually trying the hunting area, it sounds very dangerous and high risk, low reward. it's a bit of a shame this might be a hunting area no one uses, I hope not!

[audioserf]

GSIV has a very reactive playerbase so you're right to an extent BUT there's this frustrating recurring pattern of developing things with almost deliberately obnoxious elements and then expecting to have praise heaped on them for it. I think you're right - nobody's going to hunt there, except people who want literally free EXP for an empath alt.

[Taernath]

Alot of haters on this thread.

Great way to encourage the GMs to make us new stuff. Shit all over whatever they do, all of the time. Smart!

But from the reviews I read in this thread of people actually trying the hunting area, it sounds very dangerous and high risk, low reward. it's a bit of a shame this might be a hunting area no one uses, I hope not!

There are also people who think development is sacrosanct and get bent out of shape when someone criticizes counterproductive design choices.

[peam]

Alot of haters on this thread.

Great way to encourage the GMs to make us new stuff. Shit all over whatever they do, all of the time. Smart!

But from the reviews I read in this thread of people actually trying the hunting area, it sounds very dangerous and high risk, low reward. it's a bit of a shame this might be a hunting area no one uses, I hope not!


I mean, I'm fine with them completely stopping development if the only thing that ever gets developed is a text-based version of them shitting in my mouth.

It's a bad area. They made bad choices. They should feel bad.

[rolfard]

Teras is notorious for every hunting area having an instant kill mechanic. No surprises here on the high risk factor, only wish they added more rooms as it feels like a missed opportunity to "discover" a new area and have a storyline.

[Astray]

Alot of haters on this thread.

Great way to encourage the GMs to make us new stuff. Shit all over whatever they do, all of the time. Smart!

A lot of what they do is garbage though. Paid events out the ass, they care more about the cash shop than they do about freebies, they don't give a shit when it comes to player feedback, I have literally seen posts where Wyrom is calling players ungrateful for the shit storm that was Wizard 'updates'.

You want people to stop knocking what's implemented? Stop implementing worthless shit like this that serves nothing more than to hammer home the fact that Simutronics doesn't care about quality.

[nocturnix]

It seems to me like an attempt at some low-hanging fruit quick content additions. Probably did not take a ton of time to develop, hence the reason they did it this way. Sure all new creatures, all new areas, with full storyline etc. etc. is nice, but that requires ALOT more time and effort than just banging out a few creatures and tossing them in an existing empty area. It is what it is. I wouldnt mind it if the area werent so painful to hunt from what it sounds like. I will be entering this level range very soon so would have been cool to have something I can realistically fry on without too much annoyance. I likely will not utilize this area because of that, which is a shame. But again my guess is this took them a few hours.

[peam]

my guess is this took them a few hours.


https://media.giphy.com/media/13l7w7N4Vr1dw4/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/xUySTslGn0iJhSkOOY/giphy.gif
https://media.giphy.com/media/9MFsKQ8A6HCN2/giphy.gif

[Astray]

But again my guess is this took them a few hours.

Hours? H O U R S?

Nah. I'm willing to bet it took minutes.

[Maerit]

Alot of haters on this thread.

Great way to encourage the GMs to make us new stuff. Shit all over whatever they do, all of the time. Smart!

But from the reviews I read in this thread of people actually trying the hunting area, it sounds very dangerous and high risk, low reward. it's a bit of a shame this might be a hunting area no one uses, I hope not!

I work in software development. The #1 priority should be providing a product their customer enjoys. This isn't the developer's fault, it's whoever defines the acceptance criteria at Simu. If the acceptance criteria is poorly defined for your developers, you get a crap product.

You don't get quality software by having a bunch of cheerleaders yelling "Yay! Your shit smells like roses!!". You get quality software from having customer feedback.

[audioserf]

but you have to be excited about any and all development because these people aren’t employees they’re volunteers being compensated with Buffalo Wild Wings coupons as a stipend, we should be thankful for any absolutely garbo shit they crank out

[Maerit]

but you have to be excited about any and all development because these people aren’t employees they’re volunteers being compensated with Buffalo Wild Wings coupons as a stipend, we should be thankful for any absolutely garbo shit they crank out

Heh. I am more than willing to say Thank you!!! to the people doing the work, and then offer constructive feedback, that is not always happy. Hopefully a volunteer is not demoralized by hearing thank you and we appreciate your effort, please try and make it better.

[nocturnix]

I work in software development. The #1 priority should be providing a product their customer enjoys. This isn't the developer's fault, it's whoever defines the acceptance criteria at Simu. If the acceptance criteria is poorly defined for your developers, you get a crap product.

You don't get quality software by having a bunch of cheerleaders yelling "Yay! Your shit smells like roses!!". You get quality software from having customer feedback.

Well now you are twisting what I said. I never mentioned we should be cheerleading them for this. I agree the hunting area does not seem very useable.

I just pointed out we shouldnt immediately shit all over everything in such an abusive manner. Organize your feedback - give constructive feedback. From my 8 years in the gaming industry and 2 years in game design, i can tell you that will get noticed alot more than random bitching and moaning and flames.

[Avaia]

Teras is notorious for every hunting area having an instant kill mechanic. No surprises here on the high risk factor, only wish they added more rooms as it feels like a missed opportunity to "discover" a new area and have a storyline.

I suspect there was originally a story planned for this. Remember all the quakes and volcano messaging that went on for months? Then Liia(sp?) left or LOA'd for whatever reason and the whole thing stalled out.

[Maerit]

Well now you are twisting what I said. I never mentioned we should be cheerleading them for this. I agree the hunting area does not seem very useable.

I just pointed out we shouldnt immediately shit all over everything in such an abusive manner. Organize your feedback - give constructive feedback. From my 8 years in the gaming industry and 2 years in game design, i can tell you that will get noticed alot more than random bitching and moaning and flames.

I'm pretty sure anyone with 10 years experience in the gaming industry knows that whining on the forums is the most common method of getting feedback from your playerbase. The issue that gets the most whines is obviously the #1 problem to solve to keep customers happy.

[nocturnix]

I'm pretty sure anyone with 10 years experience in the gaming industry knows that whining on the forums is the most common method of getting feedback from your playerbase. The issue that gets the most whines is obviously the #1 problem to solve to keep customers happy.

Whines get ignored more than coherent feedback. Flames get ignored even more.

[Tgo01]

but you have to be excited about any and all development because these people aren’t employees they’re volunteers being compensated with Buffalo Wild Wings coupons as a stipend, we should be thankful for any absolutely garbo shit they crank out

I no longer buy the argument from Simu that their GMs are basically volunteers who just barely earn enough for pizza money. Maybe that excuse worked in the past, but I remember Wyrom saying something about GMs getting a cut on paid events which is why a lot of GMs choose to work on paid events over other parts of the game because it allows them to supplement their income.

I still have no idea how much money GMs make and I'm sure it doesn't pay well enough to make an actual career out of it, but according to Wyrom himself GMs are making money off of this game. Doesn't make sense to say GMs choose to work on paid events to supplement their income if they are still just earning "pizza and beer" money.

[nocturnix]

I no longer buy the argument from Simu that their GMs are basically volunteers who just barely earn enough for pizza money. Maybe that excuse worked in the past, but I remember Wyrom saying something about GMs getting a cut on paid events which is why a lot of GMs choose to work on paid events over other parts of the game because it allows them to supplement their income.

I still have no idea how much money GMs make and I'm sure it doesn't pay well enough to make an actual career out of it, but according to Wyrom himself GMs are making money off of this game. Doesn't make sense to say GMs choose to work on paid events to supplement their income if they are still just earning "pizza and beer" money.

Yes, I agree. It's likely there are more paid GMs than just Wyrom by now. Especially considering the game is earning good money these days thanks to all the paid events.

The Avg Revenue Per User (ARPU - mobile gaming KPI but its relevant) for GS is absolutely crazy compared to most mobile and f2p games. Much smaller playerbase, but the ARPU makes up for it big time.

[Taernath]

Yes, I agree. It's likely there are more paid GMs than just Wyrom by now. Especially considering the game is earning good money these days thanks to all the paid events

There's a difference between getting paid a bonus and being paid hourly/salaried though. Last I heard there were only like two or three people who drew a salary from GS, Wyrom being one. The guys who are coding and doing other kinds of GM work have regular 9-5 jobs, they aren't surviving on GS.

I just want to see them hire a coder, even if they're part time. You can't tell me GS has so much back end they can't afford it.

[Methais]

Alot of haters on this thread.

Great way to encourage the GMs to make us new stuff. Shit all over whatever they do, all of the time. Smart!

But from the reviews I read in this thread of people actually trying the hunting area, it sounds very dangerous and high risk, low reward. it's a bit of a shame this might be a hunting area no one uses, I hope not!

As opposed to saying nothing which to Simu = “They must really love this, let’s make more of it!”?

Simu is stupid and arrogant as fuck and after all these years are still incapable of learning from past mistakes or considering that maybe just maybe their new idea for XYZ that everyone hates might be because it’s actually terrible and not just the players whining about bullshit.

I doubt it’s usually due to straight up bad design from the drawing board either. I’m pretty sure most new things that are designed get watered down as fuck during the QA process and by the time the final product goes live even the GM that created it is probably like wtf this is stupid as fuck.

Probably.

[nocturnix]

As opposed to saying nothing which to Simu = “They must really love this, let’s make more of it!”?

Simu is stupid and arrogant as fuck and after all these years are still incapable of learning from past mistakes or considering that maybe just maybe their new idea for XYZ that everyone hates might be because it’s actually terrible and not just the players whining about bullshit.

Not every idea is a hit. That goes for all games/MMOs. There is alot of stuff they added over the past years that I love. I dont think this hunting area will be one of them, unless they improve it, but as long as they didnt spend 3 weeks adding 2 creatures to an existing area, I dont care. At least someone will hunt there, even if its just empaths.

It is very frustrating however to see this hutning area get added when there is a gap in the 80s level progression, and that it will likely be a bomb and no one uses it. I hope they add an 80s hunting area that is actually fun and with good XP gain. I personally dont care so much about loot anyways.

[Hymore246]

Whines get ignored more than coherent feedback. Flames get ignored even more.

Flames get you banned. Flat out. One of the reasons more people post over here is because you have to walk on egg shells on the officials. People have been banned for voicing their opinion in a civil manner before.

I've seen GMs completely ignore constructive feed. The Elemental Lore review was a great example. Not to mention that the Wizard community could not get the GMs to explain their line of thought on WHY either. Hell, I think it took them a year to get any sort of change and even those buffs were minor.

Simu does not have a good relationship with their player base. There is no open line of dialog between them the two and the player base is angry that nothing changes.


Also, I'm not going to sing praises for a minor update like this. Simu loves to make a big deal out of minor buffs. "Look! We are doing something!" If you want the people to be happy, implement something worthwhile. How about fixing the item lose problem with disarm? But I have no faith that it wouldn't come with some cash shop BS attached.

[Maerit]

Not every idea is a hit. That goes for all games/MMOs. There is alot of stuff they added over the past years that I love. I dont think this hunting area will be one of them, unless they improve it, but as long as they didnt spend 3 weeks adding 2 creatures to an existing area, I dont care. At least someone will hunt there, even if its just empaths.

I think you'll find my tone is very different on the officials and discord when communicating directly with the staff and providing feedback. On PC, it's just going to be raw bitching because something that could have been a real win was a major flop.

[Methais]

I no longer buy the argument from Simu that their GMs are basically volunteers who just barely earn enough for pizza money. Maybe that excuse worked in the past, but I remember Wyrom saying something about GMs getting a cut on paid events which is why a lot of GMs choose to work on paid events over other parts of the game because it allows them to supplement their income.

I still have no idea how much money GMs make and I'm sure it doesn't pay well enough to make an actual career out of it, but according to Wyrom himself GMs are making money off of this game. Doesn't make sense to say GMs choose to work on paid events to supplement their income if they are still just earning "pizza and beer" money.

It could mean the difference between Pabst + Little Caesar’s vs. Heineken + Domino’s!

[Methais]

There's a difference between getting paid a bonus and being paid hourly/salaried though. Last I heard there were only like two or three people who drew a salary from GS, Wyrom being one. The guys who are coding and doing other kinds of GM work have regular 9-5 jobs, they aren't surviving on GS.

I just want to see them hire a coder, even if they're part time. You can't tell me GS has so much back end they can't afford it.

I bet you think the price of fire extinguisher inspections only goes down huh? Reported.

[nocturnix]

I think you'll find my tone is very different on the officials and discord when communicating directly with the staff and providing feedback. On PC, it's just going to be raw bitching because something that could have been a real win was a major flop.

It sounds like a flop. But i havent hunted there myself yet. And the chances of them tweaking the area now are probably small, but its still a possibility.

[peam]

It could mean the difference between Pabst + Little Caesar’s vs. Heineken + Domino’s!


For what it's worth, I'd much rather have the Pabst and Little Caesars's.

Their deep dish is dope af.

[Methais]

Not every idea is a hit. That goes for all games/MMOs. There is alot of stuff they added over the past years that I love. I dont think this hunting area will be one of them, unless they improve it, but as long as they didnt spend 3 weeks adding 2 creatures to an existing area, I dont care. At least someone will hunt there, even if its just empaths.

It is very frustrating however to see this hutning area get added when there is a gap in the 80s level progression, and that it will likely be a bomb and no one uses it. I hope they add an 80s hunting area that is actually fun and with good XP gain. I personally dont care so much about loot anyways.

What people are sick of is so many new things coming out that are right on the cusp of being awesome, but gets completely ruined by XYZ mechanic.

512/shatter is a good example of this with its insane lore + set up time + mana cost requirements. Iridescent cores are also a good example of a great idea made totally unusable by completely unnecessary retarded bullshit because they think everything that’s effective must be OP and needs to be “balanced,” even though 714 is still way better even if cores dropped 100% of the time.

Those ranger resist mushrooms are probably going to be the same.

If Simu wants to add quick quality of life updates that will literally make the game better that 99.9999% of the player base would be ecstatic about, do some shit like get rid of the fucking mine carts already. I’d bet money that getting rid of the mine carts or making them instant or whatever would result in accounts being reactivated simply because “omg they finally fucking did this.”

The RR boot returning is the kind of QOL changes they should keep making.

[Hymore246]

Iridescent cores are a good example of a great idea made completely unusable by completely unnecessary retarded bullshit because they think everything that’s effective must be OP and needs to be “balanced.” Those ranger resist mushrooms are probably going to be the same.

The fact that you had to complain so much about this to get an answer is shameful. I still couldn't believe the GM complained about YOU making so many post about it. JUST ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION!

[Taernath]

If Simu wants to add quick updates that will literally make the game better that 99.9999% of the player base would be ecstatic about, do some shit like get rid of the fucking mine carts already. I’d bet money that getting rid of the mine carts or making them instant or whatever would result in accounts being reactivated simply because “omg they finally fucking did this”

To be fair, they did massively improve the boot/boat/ferry recently.

But yeah, the carts, the Rift teleport etc. there's no need for.

[Methais]

The fact that you had to complain so much about this to get an answer is shameful. I still couldn't believe the GM complained about YOU making so many post about it. JUST ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION!

It still never really got answered. They never did confirm if any have actually been found yet. Best I got out of them is that “They are generating” followed by a vague implication that maybe people are selling their plinites without opening them and possibly selling a plinite that has an iridescent inside of it.

I’d bet money that the drop rate of uselessness wasn’t Viduus’s idea and came from some jackoff in QA that thinks usefulness + fun = game breakingly OP.

[Methais]

To be fair, they did massively improve the boot/boat/ferry recently.

But yeah, the carts, the Rift teleport etc. there's no need for.

I wouldn’t mind the Rift drop so much if it wasn’t so unpredictable. You might drop instantly, or you might sit there for so long that by the time you do land, you’re already bored and don’t feel like hunting anymore so you run back to the cavern and go afk.

The smart move would be to make it instant, but Simu hates smart things so that won’t happen, so put a cap of like 30 seconds on that shit if nothing else.

If I wasn’t in Voln I would never hunt the Rift because not having Symbol or Seeking makes it 9382778338x more annoying.

Another mostly unrelated thing that’s also retarded is Confluence loot pressure applies game wide instead of being realm based. If/when the loot is good/bad in one town, it’s good/bad in every town.

So now that Confluence loot is mostly shit, way less plinites are dropping which = less opportunities to get that 10000 open roll for a core.

[Taernath]

The fact that you had to complain so much about this to get an answer is shameful. I still couldn't believe the GM complained about YOU making so many post about it. JUST ANSWER THE FUCKING QUESTION!

My favorite part of that thread was where someone asked if the core was generated before the plinite was opened, or after, and a GM appears and says something like 'The answer to your question is that you have a 0% chance of getting a core if you don't open the plinite anyway'. Like no motherfucker, that wasn't an answer to his question at all.

[Tgo01]

My favorite part of that thread was where someone asked if the core was generated before the plinite was opened, or after, and a GM appears and says something like 'The answer to your question is that you have a 0% chance of getting a core if you don't open the plinite anyway'. Like no motherfucker, that wasn't an answer to his question at all.

Some of these GMs I swear. It's like GMs love putting puzzles in the game so much that they have to answer all questions with a puzzle.

"Iridescent core you do seek. Found inside plinites ever so meek.
Want to know when they spawn? Be ye some sort of swan?
One answer I can provide. The chance be zero if not pried."

[Methais]

Some of these GMs I swear. It's like GMs love putting puzzles in the game so much that they have to answer all questions with a puzzle.

"Iridescent core you do seek. Found inside plinites ever so meek.
Want to know when they spawn? Be ye some sort of swan?
One answer I can provide. The chance be zero if not pried."

“We practically gave you the formula, what more do you want short of the code itself?”

[Astray]

“We practically gave you the formula, what more do you want short of the code itself?”

Oh well if you're gonna behave like that this conversation is over. I will no longer be answering questions for this month because of you people.

[audioserf]

What do you mean, "you people"? Reported.

[Astray]

What do you mean, "you people"? Reported.

Mostly the dark ones but some of the white ones too. I don't generalize. What am I, a hack?

[Hymore246]

It still never really got answered. They never did confirm if any have actually been found yet. Best I got out of them is that “They are generating” followed by a vague implication that maybe people are selling their plinites without opening them and possibly selling a plinite that has an iridescent inside of it.

I’d bet money that the drop rate of uselessness wasn’t Viduus’s idea and came from some jackoff in QA that thinks usefulness + fun = game breakingly OP.

I would love for the GMs to sit down and explain what their view of game balance is. No seriously, I have no idea where they are going with anything in the game. What is considered balance? What isn't? But GMs being vague is so common that I feel like they could trademark it.

[Astray]

I would love for the GMs to sit down and explain what their view of game balance is. No seriously, I have no idea where they are going with anything in the game. What is considered balance? What isn't? But GMs being vague is so common that I feel like they could trademark it.

Probably "too behind the scenes" for them. I desperately want to know.

[audioserf]

Game balance in a game not focused on PVP is a silly idea anyway. It's a PVE game. Each profession has its advantages and its disadvantages. Making things harder on wizards because monks and rogues can't kill as efficiently is silly; bring other professions up to par.

I've always hated "balance" the way they use it. You're competing with the monsters, not with players, so why does it matter?

[Methais]

I would love for the GMs to sit down and explain what their view of game balance is. No seriously, I have no idea where they are going with anything in the game. What is considered balance? What isn't? But GMs being vague is so common that I feel like they could trademark it.

I doubt any GMs would know.

I doubt even Wyrom knows.

Prettt sure Simu doesn’t have a view of this at all and they just wing it.

And yeah “balance” in a PvE game is retarded, at least the way Simu does it.

[Hymore246]

I mean, I could see it in the sense of not letting one profession have all the toys or to reduce power creep. But in this case, every buff comes with something that ruins it in the name of "balance". Or money. Can't forget the paywall after all.

[Astray]

I could understand balance due to game economy. Y'know, having one person farm an area to death and ruin the market is pretty bad for game balance. That's a fair and reasonable reason to not flood the game with broken skills or weapons/armors, the latter not including paid events because those items are infrequent and incredibly rare (one of a kind).

The answer to any real hunting area problem is to expand upon hunting areas designed to lean more towards the professions that can't cut it in other areas. In a typical MMO we'd have dozens of areas to choose from, party up in and be generally choosy. Now in the early levels that's true. It becomes a cone quickly though at higher levels and instead of proactively taking polls and interest in what people want, they cobble shit together and piss away the money in mobile apps or some such shit.

[peam]

Some of these GMs I swear. It's like GMs love putting puzzles in the game so much that they have to answer all questions with a puzzle.

"Iridescent core you do seek. Found inside plinites ever so meek.
Want to know when they spawn? Be ye some sort of swan?
One answer I can provide. The chance be zero if not pried."

GMs are actually sphinxes IRL.

[SonoftheNorth]

I doubt even Wyrom knows.

Prettt sure Simu doesn’t have a view of this at all and they just wing it.



Are we still pretending there's anyone above wyrom that has any idea what any GS mechanics are?

[Tgo01]

Speaking of dumb secrecy rules at Simu, who even makes the rules these days? Before Simu was bought out it could be argued Whately might have had his hand in some things, but does Stillfront (I think that's their name?) really give a single shit about the day to day operations of GS as long as they are bringing in the cash?

Does Wyrom make these rules now? Are these rules just carry overs from the days of yore and everyone is sticking to them out of tradition? It really does seem the game is on autopilot at the moment and the only thing that really matters is making money. Before at least the money went towards other games; that graphical game I can't remember the name of, Dragons of Elanthia, their mobile games, that Facebook game, that Hercules game, shit even Dragon Realms was created off of the success and funding from GS. What is being developed now? To my knowledge Simutronics hasn't released shit in years, they got rid of all of their games that weren't making money (to my knowledge all they have now is GS and Dragon Realms, right?), they don't do much developing on GS anymore outside of pay events. It seems like the game is literally just a piggy bank to pad the pockets of someone out there.

[peam]

(to my knowledge all they have now is GS and Dragon Realms, right?)

How fucking dare you forget Cyberstrike 2.

[Tgo01]

How fucking dare you forget Cyberstrike 2.

Wait Cyberstrike 2 is really still around? Holy shit. Is the population like 3?

Just checked out the official forums for the game, most recent post was 4 years ago. I wonder when Cyberstrike 2 is gonna get the axe.

[Hymore246]

They can't get rid of Cyberstrike 2. Due to code dependencies, removing that game means all of Pinefar will disappear! Also, 118 will become Thought Projection again.



Ok, not really. But like anything makes sense anymore.

[Tgo01]

They can't get rid of Cyberstrike 2. Due to code dependencies, removing that game means all of Pinefar will disappear! Also, 118 will become Thought Projection again.

Actually it wouldn't surprise me. The excuse for why they can't get better forums is because it's tied to billing and they can't update it.

[Tgo01]

Just checked out the official forums for the game, most recent post was 4 years ago. I wonder when Cyberstrike 2 is gonna get the axe.

I'm almost tempted to post in the forums just to see if a GM will ban me for obvious trolling.

"No one seriously posts in these forums anymore!"

[Donquix]

All this time you thought the thing with lights whizzing by int he rift was a car, it's actually a mech. Simu Shared Universe is just prime for the marvel treatment.

[Tgo01]

All this time you thought the thing with lights whizzing by int he rift was a car, it's actually a mech. Simu Shared Universe is just prime for the marvel treatment.

Simu: Simu's newest game will combine all 3 of their games into one! For the low low price of $199.99 a month!
Customers: Eh...
Simu: There will be lots of fluff and little development to confuse you with...
Customers: Ohhhhhh!

[Astray]

Someone needs to make MuD with mechs.

[Methais]

Someone needs to make MuD with mechs.

This would never work without tentacle rape side quests.

[Astray]

This would never work without tentacle rape side quests.

Just put the tentacles in the cockpit. Oh what, you thought that name was some weird joke?

[Methais]

Just put the tentacles in the cockpit. Oh what, you thought that name was some weird joke?


https://youtu.be/n2A194yTWoQ

[Astray]

It all links back to Airplane!

[Methais]

It all links back to Airplane!

Confirmed Wyrom is Roger Murdock and only tries hard in the playoffs.

[zoraster]

Development GameMaster Hiring 2018

As mentioned at Simucon, we're looking to hire some potential GameMasters for the Development team. As a member of the Technical Systems Development team, you will contribute to some of the core systems of GemStone. Some of these systems include: professions, combat, creatures, and societies. You will be expected to contribute via designing and implementing updates to these systems.

After basic GM training, we will get you up to speed on coding in GSL (our proprietary scripting language), allowing you to begin creating with the guidance of an experienced GM. Although referral shifts are not required for this team, you may on occasion be consulted to investigate code-related issues. You are expected to have a strong interest in, and/or understanding of, the underlying mechanics of the game. We do not expect you to be an expert on all areas of the game (no one is), but you should be able to demonstrate strong mechanical knowledge of some aspect of the game (perhaps of your favored profession), as well as being willing and able to learn new game mechanics when needed.

We do not require that you have professional coding experience prior to being hired. Having prior coding or programming experience is an asset, but the most important strength to demonstrate in your application is a strong grasp of game design principles, alongside the enthusiasm to learn and having the free time available to do so.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/GemStone%20IV%20Announcements/Important%20Announcements/view/3133

Posted today. Time to get your applications in!

I doubt any of their current or former staff will sue, but I'm pretty confident that they way they compensate their staff falls afoul of labor law. I know they claim GMs are "volunteers" but that argument is incredibly unlikely to hold up in court.

Department of Labor, Volunteers (https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/docs/volunteers.asp):

Under the FLSA, employees may not volunteer services to for-profit private sector employers.

The more likely argument is that GMs are "independent contractors" and thus not covered by most labor law (i.e. they aren't "employees"). But even this would be a tough row to hoe.

DOL, Wage and Hour Division (https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs13.htm):

The U.S. Supreme Court has on a number of occasions indicated that there is no single rule or test for determining whether an individual is an independent contractor or an employee for purposes of the FLSA. The Court has held that it is the total activity or situation which controls. Among the factors which the Court has considered significant are:


The extent to which the services rendered are an integral part of the principal's business.
The permanency of the relationship.
The amount of the alleged contractor's investment in facilities and equipment.
The nature and degree of control by the principal.
The alleged contractor's opportunities for profit and loss.
The amount of initiative, judgment, or foresight in open market competition with others required for the success of the claimed independent contractor.
The degree of independent business organization and operation.

There are certain factors which are immaterial in determining whether there is an employment relationship. Such facts as the place where work is performed, the absence of a formal employment agreement, or whether an alleged independent contractor is licensed by State/local government are not considered to have a bearing on determinations as to whether there is an employment relationship. Additionally, the Supreme Court has held that the time or mode of pay does not control the determination of employee status

.

Those factors don't all need to be met, the test is about the "economic reality" of the relationship and so it's about judging based on those factors.

[Tgo01]

I doubt any of their current or former staff will sue, but I'm pretty confident that they way they compensate their staff falls afoul of labor law. I know they claim GMs are "volunteers" but that argument is incredibly unlikely to hold up in court.

Department of Labor, Volunteers (https://webapps.dol.gov/elaws/whd/flsa/docs/volunteers.asp):


The more likely argument is that GMs are "independent contractors" and thus not covered by most labor law (i.e. they aren't "employees"). But even this would be a tough row to hoe.

DOL, Wage and Hour Division (https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs13.htm):


Those factors don't all need to be met, the test is about the "economic reality" of the relationship and so it's about judging based on those factors.

For sure they are considered independent contractors, but whenever the issue of a lack of game development comes up the GMs are quick to play the "we're practically volunteers!" card.

[Astray]

I think it was said somewhere that they are commission based. I wish I could find it without spending hours but I'm pretty sure that's what was said.

If that's true, I'd bet money that Simu were low-balling in the price range. Also, if you're unhappy, as "practically a volunteer" sounds like you're unhappy, get paid better. It's stupid to think that people could look at Simu and see the subscription fee and cash shop and player base and go "I can't rob these poor folks, I'll work for cheap."

[zoraster]

For sure they are considered independent contractors, but whenever the issue of a lack of game development comes up the GMs are quick to play the "we're practically volunteers!" card.

Do you think? Their relationship has permancy (until retirement or firing, obviously), many of them have set shifts, they have expectations for how much they're supposed to work, they sign NDAs (assuming they still do anyway), their services are integral to the operation of the company (can you imagine Simu operating without their primary customer service people, their primary development people, etc.?), the GMs essentially have no "independent business organization and operation" really, they aren't involved in an open market competition with others for their services (they don't submit bids for their help, after all).

[audioserf]

Actually it wouldn't surprise me. The excuse for why they can't get better forums is because it's tied to billing and they can't update it.

This one still murders me. Nothing is impossible. They just don't want to try. There is no way they've ever actually explored their options relating to their insanely trash forums because if they did, there simply has got to be a way to bring them out of the 1990s.

[zoraster]

I think it was said somewhere that they are commission based. I wish I could find it without spending hours but I'm pretty sure that's what was said.

If that's true, I'd bet money that Simu were low-balling in the price range. Also, if you're unhappy, as "practically a volunteer" sounds like you're unhappy, get paid better. It's stupid to think that people could look at Simu and see the subscription fee and cash shop and player base and go "I can't rob these poor folks, I'll work for cheap."

Generally you still have to meet minimum wage requirements for commission pay.

[Astray]

This one still murders me. Nothing is impossible. They just don't want to try. There is no way they've ever actually explored their options relating to their insanely trash forums because if they did, there simply has got to be a way to bring them out of the 1990s.

There's so much acceptance by a wide margin of the people agreeing with it though, at least based on how hard they shut down criticism. They have an echo chamber from people that don't question the people they pay for a service. If you pay me money and I tell you stuff is happening, have been telling you stuff is happening for years, who are you to question me? That's the stance they run off and it's fucking atrocious.

[Astray]

Generally you still have to meet minimum wage requirements for commission pay.

I'm pretty sure you could find a loophole or some form of exemption. I know I use a handyman exemption for work out here.

[Tgo01]

Do you think? Their relationship has permancy (until retirement or firing, obviously), many of them have set shifts, they have expectations for how much they're supposed to work, they sign NDAs (assuming they still do anyway), their services are integral to the operation of the company (can you imagine Simu operating without their primary customer service people, their primary development people, etc.?), the GMs essentially have no "independent business organization and operation" really, they aren't involved in an open market competition with others for their services (they don't submit bids for their help, after all).

I don't think any of this prevents them from being independent contractors. And although they have expected shifts and assignments Wyrom has said a few times that GMs are allowed to do their own thing because again they are "volunteers" and it's hard to get "volunteers" to abide by strict rules. I'm paraphrasing of course.

[zoraster]

Those things I listed are responsive to the factors of whether someone is an employee vs. an independent contractor under the FLSA.

Also, directly from that listing:


GMs are assigned specific projects related to their team and expected to complete those assignments within a given timeframe. Additionally, GMs for the above teams spend time onduty to answer assists and referrals. A standard benchmark we use for hourly expectations to be a GameMaster is 30 to 60 hours a month. While most active GMs put in well above that, it is unusual for a GM to complete their assigned projects in fewer hours. Aside from regularly scheduled meetings, when you put this time in each week is largely flexible. GMs are able to work on other side projects as their ability and time allows.

[Tgo01]

Those things I listed are responsive to the factors of whether someone is an employee vs. an independent contractor under the FLSA.

Also, directly from that listing:

Like I said Wyrom has said GMs pretty much do their own thing. These seem to be more like guidelines rather than hard and fast rules. Of course this is what they tell us so who knows.

Also why can't contractors sign NDAs? Sounds odd.

[Methais]

Like I said Wyrom has said GMs pretty much do their own thing. These seem to be more like guidelines rather than hard and fast rules. Of course this is what they tell us so who knows.

Also why can't contractors sign NDAs? Sounds odd.

Because contractors aren’t Neil Diamond.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51bjm7mVEHL._SX373_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[zoraster]

Like I said Wyrom has said GMs pretty much do their own thing. These seem to be more like guidelines rather than hard and fast rules. Of course this is what they tell us so who knows.

Also why can't contractors sign NDAs? Sounds odd.

contractors can sign NDAs and do so with some frequency. But it's still a factor that can show employer control of employee. No individual factor is likely determinative and no factor is required.

[Tgo01]

contractors can sign NDAs and do so with some frequency. But it's still a factor that can show employer control of employee. No individual factor is likely determinative and no factor is required.

Don't get me wrong, I'm by no means defending the way Simu handles their employees, but I don't think they are doing anything that is actually illegal.

[Roiken]

IMHO i feel like most of the people that become a GH or a GM just put up with it because they are tired of pumping money into the game and if it costs them 3hrs a week to get a free subscription that's fine.. they arent interested in working at fixing anything.. just filling in the required hours so they can log off and get on their personal characters. I know that's not true for some, because some work so hard that they become detached from the game itself and don't know shit from an acorn. but whatever.

[zoraster]

I think you're wrong, although I admit this is not my area of law. But for example, the old AOL Community Leaders (the people who, among other things, monitored chat rooms for AOL back in the day) ended up getting class certification leading to an eventual $15m settlement.

One of the most important pieces of caselaw is Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation v. Secretary of Labor (https://aclu.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000459), which held that "volunteers" for a church doing commercial activities were employees under the FLSA -- even though the "volunteers" did not want to be paid.

Now, whether something is against the law and whether someone is likely to sue a small company for the violation are different things, particularly if they're unable to get class certification (as that's the path to the larger attorney fees that will attract a labor law attorney).

[Tgo01]

I think you're wrong, although I admit this is not my area of law. But for example, the old AOL Community Leaders (the people who, among other things, monitored chat rooms for AOL back in the day) ended up getting class certification leading to an eventual $15m settlement.

One of the most important pieces of caselaw is Tony and Susan Alamo Foundation v. Secretary of Labor (https://aclu.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000459), which held that "volunteers" for a church doing commercial activities were employees under the FLSA -- even though the "volunteers" did not want to be paid.

Now, whether something is against the law and whether someone is likely to sue a small company for the violation are different things, particularly if they're unable to get class-certification (as that's the path to the larger attorney fees that will attract a labor law attorney).

Yeah but they aren't actual volunteers as they do receive compensation. They might be doing some other shady shit but this isn't it.

[Methais]

I’m pretty sure there’s been at least one disgruntled ex-GM that has already checked into this and came up with nothing.

Probably.

[zoraster]

From what I can tell, they receive compensation of "up to a few hundred dollars" for high performance, which is unlikely to be anything like the minimum wage.

[Tgo01]

I’m pretty sure there’s been at least one disgruntled ex-GM that has already checked into this and came up with nothing.

Probably.

Gelston used to be a GM. Let's get his ass in here and clear up some things.

[Methais]

Hey Gelston, what the fuck cough it up

[zoraster]

I’m pretty sure there’s been at least one disgruntled ex-GM that has already checked into this and came up with nothing.

Probably.

It's also possible that it has been done, and they received an early small settlement. We are unlikely to know if that were the case. Note: that probably wouldn't indicate much as to whether the case has merit or not.

[Methais]

It's also possible that it has been done, and they received an early small settlement. We are unlikely to know if that were the case. Note: that probably wouldn't indicate much as to whether the case has merit or not.

When Dusk Ruin doubles in frequency, we’ll know why.

[Tgo01]

From what I can tell, they receive compensation of "up to a few hundred dollars" for high performance, which is unlikely to be anything like the minimum wage.

Yeah but minimum wage laws do not apply to independent contractors. So the question now is if Simu is calling them independent contractors in order to avoid labor laws. If what Simu has told us is true, that GMs pretty much do their own thing and the requirements are mere guidelines, it's kind of hard to argue that they are indeed regular employees. No regular employee is going to be able to make up their own schedule and finish work whenever they feel like it.

[Taernath]

Gelston used to be a GM. Let's get his ass in here and clear up some things.

Gelston was Andraste.

[Tgo01]

Gelston was Andraste.

:O

[Methais]

Gelston was Andraste.

He was Emeradan too.

Simucon Gelston Andraste Emeradan Gelston Notsleg just arrived.

[Taernath]

Oh wait no he just banged Andraste.

[Gelston]

rofl...

So yeah, GMs do sign a NDA. They are independent contractors and they are compensated in cash money. It isn't a lot though.

[Gelston]

This is the exact line from the Agreement...

TERM OF NON-DISCLOSURE. The Individual shall exercise reasonable care to prevent disclosure of or use for any purpose unrelated to use on Simutronics' products or to the evaluation of the products or suitability of the products, at any time prior to the expiration of three (3) years following the termination of this Agreement, of any Information which the Individual receives from Simutronics pursuant to and in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.

[Velfi]

It seems to me like an attempt at some low-hanging fruit quick content additions. Probably did not take a ton of time to develop, hence the reason they did it this way. Sure all new creatures, all new areas, with full storyline etc. etc. is nice, but that requires ALOT more time and effort than just banging out a few creatures and tossing them in an existing empty area. It is what it is. I wouldnt mind it if the area werent so painful to hunt from what it sounds like. I will be entering this level range very soon so would have been cool to have something I can realistically fry on without too much annoyance. I likely will not utilize this area because of that, which is a shame. But again my guess is this took them a few hours.

So.. after over a decade of knowing about this gap, they were finally able to put in "a few hours" to add 2 creatures. Definitely worth a pat on the back.

[Tgo01]

So.. after over a decade of knowing about this gap, they were finally able to put in "a few hours" to add 2 creatures. Definitely worth a pat on the back.

Rome wasn't built in 30 years.

[Gelston]

So, they are super cereal on their QCing and all that. I'm sure it took probably an hour (tops) to create the creatures, place them, all that. But QC is what can take a lot of time.

It is stupid. It is slow. It is something. I wish they would have decided on better creatures, but I imagine they were forced to stick with the theme of the location.

[Velfi]

So, they are super cereal on their QCing and all that. I'm sure it took probably an hour (tops) to create the creatures, place them, all that. But QC is what can take a lot of time.

It is stupid. It is slow. It is something. I wish they would have decided on better creatures, but I imagine they were forced to stick with the theme of the location.

I'm sorry, did I say over a decade? I meant over two decades.


Teras Isle was released in early 1996.

[Gelston]

I'm sorry, did I say over a decade? I meant over two decades.

How many of the GMs around have been GMs for a decade? Or two decades? The gap has existed, but for whatever reason, a GM hasn't gotten to fixing it, either because of other projects or they quit/got fired just before they could.

And the "gap" hasn't existed that long. It was created when Nelemar was released.

[Velfi]

How many of the GMs around have been GMs for a decade? Or two decades? The gap has existed, but for whatever reason, a GM hasn't gotten to fixing it, either because of other projects or they quit/got fired just before they could.

And the "gap" hasn't existed that long. It was created when Nelemar was released.

I have no idea how long any of the GMs have been around. From what I can tell Nelemar was released in 2006, so that's still 12 years for Simu to know about this glaring hole in a hunting area and do nothing. I'm not calling out some single GM for not getting on this, I'm blaming Simu, the company in charge.

[Gelston]

I have no idea how long any of the GMs have been around. From what I can tell Nelemar was released in 2006, so that's still 12 years for Simu to know about this glaring hole in a hunting area and do nothing. I'm not calling out some single GM for not getting on this, I'm blaming Simu, the company in charge.

Eh, I don't think they saw it as "glaring" though. To people that like to hang around Teras, sure. I don't hang out around Teras and I had no idea about it. I didn't know it existed until this was released.

I'm not saying I agree with their methods of doing shit, I don't. i think it is dumb. I'm just saying what they are and my suspicions on why we got what we got.

[Maerit]

This new area continues to get worse!

New areas of annoying hunting mechanics, and they come packed into TWO creatures only! lol...

Skayls - attacking these without using a cold flaring weapon will cause the weapon to heat up, and eventually it will burn you.
Dervish - They have a maneuver that appears to drop your DS for the next attack

DS prior to the maneuver: +362

A steam dervish suddenly blows a blast of hot steam directly at your face!
You are badly distracted by the attack!

DS after a "badly distracted" failure: +297

There could be other contributing factors, but effectively the DS was dropped dramatically. They have an AS of over 400.

Here's an important one for ambushers - severing the limbs of a Steam Dervish will result in hot steam spraying out of the open wound:

The steam dervish fumes with rage as her right hand falls to the ground! Hot steam sprays out from the open wound, covering you with scalding water!
... 3 points of damage!

That 3 points stunned me for 2 rounds, but I had 26 points of crit padding to mitigate the attack.

So, summarize:

1. 2 Creatures (Fire Mages + Steam Dervish) will deal a wound when they die that will stack on top of existing wounds.
2. 2 Creatures (Fire mages + Greater Skayls) will cast Earthen Fury as their primary form of attack.
3. Skayls cannot be searched without taking injuries to the hand, and you will have to use 315 to remove the item from your hand
4. Skayls are fire elemental creatures that cause your weapon to heat up (unless cold flaring) until it burns your hand (or feet).
5. Steam Dervish will use Hamstring regularly inflicting wounds to your legs.
6. Steam Dervish will flare steam damage if you severe a limb.
7. Steam Dervish has a maneuver that blows steam in your face to substantially reduce your DS for their next attack.

This area is ideally hunted by 1) Pure empaths or 2) Sniper that can hit eyes while staying in stealth. These two types of hunting styles will do great here because they will avoid 90% of the annoying aspects. Warriors with Deflect Elements and a shield equipped could also block a bunch of these attacks, but it's just a chance to block and not guaranteed.

Good luck to anyone that attempts to hunt here!

[Methais]

Here's an important one for ambushers - severing the limbs of a Steam Dervish will result in hot steam spraying out of the open wound:

lol @ giving Vvrael stuff to skayls

2018 is the year of being trolled by Simu.

[Hymore246]

Well, I'll take back what I said before. They DID put some effort into these creatures even if the powers are reskins of Rift effects and a steam version of Dirt Kick. But with all those downsides, what's the point? This is a risk vs reward issue. Way too much risk for no reward.



This is the exact line from the Agreement...

TERM OF NON-DISCLOSURE. The Individual shall exercise reasonable care to prevent disclosure of or use for any purpose unrelated to use on Simutronics' products or to the evaluation of the products or suitability of the products, at any time prior to the expiration of three (3) years following the termination of this Agreement, of any Information which the Individual receives from Simutronics pursuant to and in accordance with the terms of this Agreement.

3 years eh?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JVNMmsN3Co

[Maerit]

More updates - Greater Skayls level confirmed to be 81 (582 BPs for an heirloom quest - Yes, it was SEARCH, not Loot) -- ( 582 - 15 ) / 7 = 81
Steam Dervish is level 84 (603 BPs for an heirloom quest - It was a loot variety) --- (603 -15) / 7 = 84

Steam Dervish weapons have steam flares that do hurt quite a bit. They are also cannot be stunned by conventional means.
Skayls are immune to 410, 909, 912, 709, 512, and probably any other conventional knock-down spell. They are NOT immune to 514 + push.

[Methais]

More updates - Greater Skayls level confirmed to be 81 (582 BPs for an heirloom quest - Yes, it was SEARCH, not Loot) -- ( 582 - 15 ) / 7 = 81
Steam Dervish is level 84 (603 BPs for an heirloom quest - It was a loot variety) --- (603 -15) / 7 = 84

Steam Dervish weapons have steam flares that do hurt quite a bit. They are also cannot be stunned by conventional means.
Skayls are immune to 410, 909, 912, 709, 512, and probably any other conventional knock-down spell. They are NOT immune to 514 + push.

I kinda wish they made skayle heirlooms a LOOT bounty now. :lol:

[Luftstreitkräfte]

This is how you design a Teras hunting area:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?55295-share-your-swamp-contest-submissions-here&highlight=swamp+submission

[Methais]

This is how you design a Teras hunting area:

http://forum.gsplayers.com/showthread.php?55295-share-your-swamp-contest-submissions-here&highlight=swamp+submission

You'll hunt re-skinned skayls and you'll like it whether you like it or not!

https://media.giphy.com/media/6Q2KA5ly49368/giphy.gif

[khorpulent]

This area is ideally hunted by 1) Pure empaths or 2) Sniper that can hit eyes while staying in stealth. These two types of hunting styles will do great here because they will avoid 90% of the annoying aspects. Warriors with Deflect Elements and a shield equipped could also block a bunch of these attacks, but it's just a chance to block and not guaranteed.


I mean, you could basically say the same about everything in the Eye. And I don't know if the thing steam dervishes do when they die is the same as fire mages (is it steam instead of fire?), but there are other ways to deal with the fire mage death glare thing other than being an empath or hiding. If you use a shield you can fairly reliably deflect it (though I'm not sure whether or not this requires Deflect the Elements or not). You can also mitigate it fairly effectively with some good ranger resistance.

I mean hey, at least rangers finally have a reason other than soul golems to add steam resistance to armor?

[drauz]

From talking to some GMs at simucon the increase in pay is mostly from DR and pay events. If you work on items for these events you get a cut of the proceeds. Most said it was like $4-500 per run if I remember correctly.

[Gelston]

From talking to some GMs at simucon the increase in pay is mostly from DR and pay events. If you work on items for these events you get a cut of the proceeds. Most said it was like $4-500 per run if I remember correctly.

You were actually required to create X number of shops and items for events like EG when I was a GM. You could reuse a things from the previous years but you had to also create new shops and all that and you had a number of hours you had to work. I wasn't around when the SimuCoinm store came out or any of that, so no idea how they handle all that shit now.

[drauz]

You were actually required to create X number of shops and items for events like EG when I was a GM. You could reuse a things from the previous years but you had to also create new shops and all that and you had a number of hours you had to work. I wasn't around when the SimuCoinm store came out or any of that, so no idea how they handle all that shit now.

The old EG price structure doesn't even compare to what they make per DR. I think they pull in like $125-175k per run.

[Maerit]

I mean, you could basically say the same about everything in the Eye. And I don't know if the thing steam dervishes do when they die is the same as fire mages (is it steam instead of fire?), but there are other ways to deal with the fire mage death glare thing other than being an empath or hiding. If you use a shield you can fairly reliably deflect it (though I'm not sure whether or not this requires Deflect the Elements or not). You can also mitigate it fairly effectively with some good ranger resistance.

I mean hey, at least rangers finally have a reason other than soul golems to add steam resistance to armor?

Ranger resist does not block the wound. It will reduce the damage inflicted from the wound, but you still always take at least 1pt of damage, and increase the rank of wound by 1 for the area hit to a max of rank 2 wounds.

I am hunting this areas currently on my GoS warmage. Every hunt I leave with at least 20+ points in bleeders, but it can be done because the character is excessively geared with 29 points of crit padding (520+Sigil of Major Prot+10 pts double leather), and sigil of determination. Without sigil of determination, I would have to return to town after 5-6 kills due to not being able to cast.

They deal steam damage only. The weapons flare steam, you severe a limb - steam damage, you kill them they breath steam at you. The fire mages and Skayls do fire damage, so this area has two elemental types. You can only put one type of ranger resist, and I recommend FIRE for this area because the skayl earthen fury is more deadly than the minor damage from the dying breath of the steam dervish.

Sorcerers can also hunt this area effectively by animating something that is capable of killing the dervish with minor assistance. I hunted the eye religiously as a sorcerer using an animated pyrothag, and it worked very well. The creature would die from a killing blow from my animate, and would not be able to hit me with their dying breath. Additionally, a sorcerer can 703 the skayls and fire mages to block earthen fury. Though, Skayls have some kind of crazy maneuver attack as well that does a major fire crit and will stun you for a while, so beware.

I've died three times so far here, but two of those deaths was from hanging around longer than was smart, and the third was due to stunlock while being beat on by a dervish with a steam flaring sword.

[Tgo01]

The old EG price structure doesn't even compare to what they make per DR. I think they pull in like $125-175k per run.

Jesus Christ, really?

[Donquix]

Jesus Christ, really?

that number seems somewhat high but i mean, people are walking out of there with hundreds of thousands of scrip. if you get a~250 every single time that's like 400 runs per 100k and tickets are like a dollar, then account for all the plebs that aren't power farming at 250 per. i dunno what they're total take is but people are spending like 500k script for their shit then selling their extra 200k blocks so i dunno, adds up.

[Methais]

From talking to some GMs at simucon the increase in pay is mostly from DR and pay events. If you work on items for these events you get a cut of the proceeds. Most said it was like $4-500 per run if I remember correctly.

I bet if you break it down by the hour it's below minimum wage.

Scumbag Simu.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/302/667/e28.png

[Methais]

I've updated the skayl (all types) loot mechanics to be a lot less punishing than they were -- it should be on par with glacei looting now. I've also removed the fire mages from the McKyren's end area and toned back how often greater skayls will cast Earthen Fury (though they still will cast it).

It should be noted that this area is literally a continuation of the Eye and its existing mechanics, so that if you've hunted up through the Eye already to the old gap point, moving on to dervishes and greater skayls will be a lot easier than coming in fresh. Fire mages are quite huntable once you figure out how to safely do so, and steam dervish death retaliation is much the same.

Coase

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Teras%20Isle%20Hunting%20Areas/view/324

[Maerit]

I've updated the skayl (all types) loot mechanics to be a lot less punishing than they were -- it should be on par with glacei looting now. I've also removed the fire mages from the McKyren's end area and toned back how often greater skayls will cast Earthen Fury (though they still will cast it).

It should be noted that this area is literally a continuation of the Eye and its existing mechanics, so that if you've hunted up through the Eye already to the old gap point, moving on to dervishes and greater skayls will be a lot easier than coming in fresh. Fire mages are quite huntable once you figure out how to safely do so, and steam dervish death retaliation is much the same.

Coase

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Teras%20Isle%20Hunting%20Areas/view/324

Damnit, right after my wizard levels out of greater skayl bounties too.

[peam]

I've updated the skayl (all types) loot mechanics to be a lot less punishing than they were -- it should be on par with glacei looting now. I've also removed the fire mages from the McKyren's end area and toned back how often greater skayls will cast Earthen Fury (though they still will cast it).

It should be noted that this area is literally a continuation of the Eye and its existing mechanics, so that if you've hunted up through the Eye already to the old gap point, moving on to dervishes and greater skayls will be a lot easier than coming in fresh. Fire mages are quite huntable once you figure out how to safely do so, and steam dervish death retaliation is much the same.

Coase

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Teras%20Isle%20Hunting%20Areas/view/324

Heading over to try the nerfed area now.

Will be back to bitch in a few hours.

[Donquix]

Heading over to try the nerfed area now.

Will be back to bitch in a few hours.

'atta boy

[Maerit]

I think Skayls are the only creatures that cast earthen fury which are nearly impossible to disable. They're immune to 410, 909, 709, 435, 912, 512, and I think 610. Cannot be stunned. Have no limbs to remove to prevent casting, nor can you ambush their non-existent neck. You can 703 them, so sorcerers should be able to lock down earthen fury. You can use 514 and push them over. Maybe 505 bolt works? Never had success knocking them over with attacks in general. I would suspect they're immune to 118 since they're made of molten glaes, and would just melt the webs.

Basically, you have one of the most obnoxious open roll spells in the game on a creature that you have next to no way to block them from casting it, so if you don't kill them before they decide to use the spell, you had better be really good at SmR defense!

[Aganii]

Steam Elementals in the Confluence have similar spell immunities and also cast Earthen Fury. If you havent trained away the movement RT running into any of the elementals can force you to defend against their first spell/attack which can result in some mix of dispell, disabling or insta-kills if you have really bad luck.

[wetsand]

Maybe 505 bolt works?

505 bolt does not work.

Reciting the mystical phrases of Hand of Tonis, you feel a rime of frost wreathe your violet eyes and infuse them with an icy blue energy that dissipates as you release your spell.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a greater skayl.
You unleash a bolt of churning air at a greater skayl!
The greater skayl is immune to unbalancing.

At least they are "easier" to search now. Resulted in a minor(exactly like glacei[no experience for healing]) and no burning.

You break through the crust of the greater skayl and withdraw a heart of smooth black glaes!
Bright orange lava oozes out of the greater skayl before it crumbles into a lifeless pile of glaes.