Nerf Alert - Runestaff & Shield Build

[audioserf]

It's over folks! Like a week after I hit 1x shield, figures.

http://forums.play.net/forums/GemStone%20IV/Hunting%20and%20Combat/Runestaffs%20and%20Magical%20Staves/view/85


It's no longer possible to defensively benefit from holding a runestaff and a shield at the same time. As a one-handed defensive tool, you can still benefit from the shield in such a scenario, but the runestaff will not be able to be used effectively.

GameMaster Estild

[Donquix]

This was a "when" not "if" kinda situation.

They finally got around to doing it. The only surprise is wizards can't get the old functionality back with 387 earth lore.

edit: for people who didn't read the thread on the officials - you can get a fix skill if you are a pure that has a bunch of shield training, have to put in an assist.

[Gelston]

rekt

[Tgo01]

One less thing for my pures to eventually train in.

[audioserf]

I'm going the other direction. I'm done with runestaves. 1x brawl is my new goal. Until they get rid of disarm, the drawbacks of having a staff (ie, vulnerability to disarm) outweigh the benefits. I don't need flares or acuity to kill shit.

[Darcthundar]

I have done the leg work and now you can make an informed decision:

First, the DS numbers are for a 100 trained sorcerer self-cast spells (no 140) with max dodge/cm, 20+ magical trains/level and 7x shield and runestaff. No brawling weapon.


STANCE OFFENSIVE:

shield/runestave

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +516 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +90 = -41
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

runestave only

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +556 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +88 = -83
A clean miss.

shield/brawling

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +537 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +9 = -143
A clean miss.


STANCE GUARDED:


shield/runestaff

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +607 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +44 = -178
A clean miss.

runestave

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +742 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +23 = -334
A clean miss.


shield/brawling

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +673 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +27 = -261
A clean miss.


BRAWLING/TWC

guarded +1 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +598 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +80 = -133
A clean miss.

guarded +95 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +700 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +86 = -263
A clean miss.

offensive +95 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +501 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +30 = -120
A clean miss.



NO NOTHING (disarmed)

guarded

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +515 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +81 = -83
A clean miss.

offensive

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +452 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +39 = -62
A clean miss.


As you can see, post-capped runestaff DS is the highest. However, it should be noted I have 20+ trains of magical ranks/level. If I remember correctly, shield/brawling has a higher DS until you get between 12-15 magical ranks/level (it has been years and things may have changed). If one was to add a 7x brawling weapon to the mix, your DS would be over 700 in guarded.




I'm going the other direction. I'm done with runestaves. 1x brawl is my new goal. Until they get rid of disarm, the drawbacks of having a staff (ie, vulnerability to disarm) outweigh the benefits. I don't need flares or acuity to kill shit.


I tend to agree. The pros of shield/brawling outweigh runestaff. You can still get brawling weapons with flares, acuity and/or enhanced. Whether you have 700 DS or 742 DS you still are not going to be hit. Add in the fact you can have added enhancive slots and in my opinion this is the better option. And I even have a runestaff that returns when disarmed. If you get disarmed with a runestaff chances are you will die. Not so with shield/brawling

I hope this helps.

[audioserf]

Thanks for that. Runestaff seems to afford max DS, but that ends when you're disarmed, which can't happen with brawl/shield. I'll take the DS loss in exchange for not having to get slapped with 20 seconds of RT for disarm and then lose all my DS.

[Ltlprprincess]

Thanks for that. Runestaff seems to afford max DS, but that ends when you're disarmed, which can't happen with brawl/shield. I'll take the DS loss in exchange for not having to get slapped with 20 seconds of RT for disarm and then lose all my DS.

They just need to get rid of disarm.

[drauz]

They just need to get rid of disarm.

RSN

[Maerit]

I've never seen a brawling weapon with acuity, and if it did exist, it wouldn't flare on cast. But you can have two fusion items that way at least (at the risk of being disarmed), and if you load the shield up with shield use and agility orbs it might add back some of the lost DS.

[audioserf]

They need to get rid of weapon loss from disarm not the disarm ability itself.

They could just copy/paste Sunder Shield and make it for weapons and call it a day. This shit doesn't need to take years.

[Dantx]

I have done the leg work and now you can make an informed decision:

First, the DS numbers are for a 100 trained sorcerer self-cast spells (no 140) with max dodge/cm, 20+ magical trains/level and 7x shield and runestaff. No brawling weapon.


STANCE OFFENSIVE:

shield/runestave

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +516 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +90 = -41
A clean miss.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

runestave only

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +556 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +88 = -83
A clean miss.

shield/brawling

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +537 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +9 = -143
A clean miss.


STANCE GUARDED:


shield/runestaff

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +607 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +44 = -178
A clean miss.

runestave

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +742 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +23 = -334
A clean miss.


shield/brawling

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +673 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +27 = -261
A clean miss.


BRAWLING/TWC

guarded +1 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +598 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +80 = -133
A clean miss.

guarded +95 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +700 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +86 = -263
A clean miss.

offensive +95 twc

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +501 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +30 = -120
A clean miss.



NO NOTHING (disarmed)

guarded

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +515 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +81 = -83
A clean miss.

offensive

You swing a closed fist at xxxxxxxxxx!
AS: +368 vs DS: +452 with AvD: +17 + d100 roll: +39 = -62
A clean miss.


As you can see, post-capped runestaff DS is the highest. However, it should be noted I have 20+ trains of magical ranks/level. If I remember correctly, shield/brawling has a higher DS until you get between 12-15 magical ranks/level (it has been years and things may have changed). If one was to add a 7x brawling weapon to the mix, your DS would be over 700 in guarded.






I tend to agree. The pros of shield/brawling outweigh runestaff. You can still get brawling weapons with flares, acuity and/or enhanced. Whether you have 700 DS or 742 DS you still are not going to be hit. Add in the fact you can have added enhancive slots and in my opinion this is the better option. And I even have a runestaff that returns when disarmed. If you get disarmed with a runestaff chances are you will die. Not so with shield/brawling

I hope this helps.

Thanks for this.

I did some testing as well on TEST, self spelled post cap, Sorc, in terms of how much 101 ranks of brawling actually help our DS.

0 ranks of brawling
guarded - 570 DS
offensive - 490 DS

10 ranks of brawling
guarded - 582 DS, 588 DS w/ handwraps (411)
offensive - 494 DS

20 ranks
guarded - 588
offensive - 496

101 ranks
guarded - 636
offensive - 512

w/ CM maxed - 512 / 636
w/ 411 gauntlets - 514 / 642


Conclusions

First 10 ranks of brawling are worth +12 DS in guarded and +4 DS in offensive
First 20 ranks of brawling are worth +18 DS in guarded and +6 DS in offensive
101 ranks of brawling are worth +66 DS in guarded and +22 DS in offensive

Handwraps with 411 (4x) give +2 DS in offensive and +6 DS in guarded
Combat Maneuvers has no effect on DS with brawling

[Methais]

They could just copy/paste Sunder Shield and make it for weapons and call it a day. This shit doesn't need to take years.

Still don't get why they didn't just do this instead of coding all that snake stuff to be used just in Sea of Fire when they could have solved a game wide issue in one swoop. Which I guess they could just copy the snake mechanics, but IC it probably wouldn't make sense in other areas, though they could just change the messaging to fit the area.

Either way just C&P sunder shield for weapons like you said would have been 4879307238290x more efficient. Simu is way too hipster to do things the normal way though.

[Alastir]

But the new system is going to be amazing. You'll have recovery mechanics that require you to jump through hoops to get your gear back. It will probably come with an upkeep cost as well, either silvers or bounty points. Just think of how awesome it's going to be.

[Methais]

But the new system is going to be amazing. You'll have recovery mechanics that require you to jump through hoops to get your gear back. It will probably come with an upkeep cost as well, either silvers or bounty points. Just think of how awesome it's going to be.

https://media.tenor.com/images/8dcbd6365535547e08b33dd08b3b74d8/tenor.gif