Fallout 76

[Taernath]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ye84Zrqndo

:thinking:

Unknown what kind of game it is. Looks like it's using the same FO4 engine.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_76


The Vault-Tec terminal in the Citadel lists Vault 76 as a "control" vault, with 500 occupants. The vault was designed to open 20 years after a nuclear war, and was among the seventeen known control vaults, meaning that it was used as a baseline to compare to experimental vaults. It is also mentioned in one of the alien captive recorded logs (no.13) recorded by Giles Wolstencroft, a Vault-Tec official who was abducted while inspecting the vault's construction site. In Fallout 4, the newsreader in the prologue mentions Vault 76 debuting in 2076 in honor of America's tercentenary when discussing Vault-Tec's plans to expand.

Sounds like if this is a main series Fallout game and not some kind of basebuilding or MMO spinoff as some have speculated, it would be the first in the FO series chronologically if it's set in 2097.

[Gelston]

Yeah. They're making the totally new engine for the next ES, coming out after Rage, FO, and a possibly a few smaller games.

[peam]

We are totally getting Fallout: Appalachia.

I am 100% on-board the hype train.

76 is canonically in Virginia. All of the geographical references in Country Roads are in Virginia.

Ol' Peam's house is gonna be in Fallout.

[Taernath]

Supposedly this will be an "online game" according to Polygon and Kotaku. I hope the only extent of it is co-op or something, not a full blown MMO.

[Gelston]

Supposedly this will be an "online game" according to Polygon and Kotaku. I hope the only extent of it is co-op or something, not a full blown MMO.

I don't know why Zenimax would want one of its studios competing with its other, MMO wise. Probably co-op/online elements. It is Bethesda making it, not ZOS.

[RichardCranium]

Co-op would be awesome.

[Gelston]

Co-op would be awesome.

Someone modded the shit out of Skyrim and created a co-op mode.

[RichardCranium]

I know what I'm doing when I get home.

[Gelston]

I know what I'm doing when I get home.

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/67038

I haven't tried it myself, but I heard it works pretty alright.

[RichardCranium]

https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/67038

I haven't tried it myself, but I heard it works pretty alright.

I was talking about masturbating but I guess I'll give that a try.

[Gelston]

I was talking about masturbating but I guess I'll give that a try.

You can add a bunch of mods from loverslab.com and do both.

Don't look at that website at work.

[RichardCranium]

Lol thanks for the heads up.

[Androidpk]

I don't know why Zenimax would want one of its studios competing with its other, MMO wise. Probably co-op/online elements. It is Bethesda making it, not ZOS.

Because there is a market for it. Do you even business?

[Gelston]

Because there is a market for it. Do you even business?

There isn't really. The MMO market isn't what it used to be at all. All they'd be doing, essentially, is taking this group of paying customers from ESO and putting them over there. They'd get a lot of dudes at sign up, but it'd go down again. Plus, as I said, it is Bethesda making it, not ZOS.

If ZOS was making it, I'd believe it was an MMO.

[Stanley Burrell]

Holy shit. Reactivating my Xbox Live Gold. Using the Large Hadron Collider to buy me extra time to play this shiznod.

[Gelston]

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34065907_10155883052586633_4431587680244989952_o.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1a3dd7c5861fbeaf07afd50e7118cfab&oe=5B83F750

If this turns out to be true, I will not be purchasing this edition of Fallout.

[Androidpk]

ugh

[Taernath]

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34065907_10155883052586633_4431587680244989952_o.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1a3dd7c5861fbeaf07afd50e7118cfab&oe=5B83F750


oh god

thread over, abandon ship

[Androidpk]

I hope this isn't the announcement that was supposed to "knock people's socks off".

[Stanley Burrell]

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/34065907_10155883052586633_4431587680244989952_o.j pg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1a3dd7c5861fbeaf07afd50e7118cfab&oe=5B83F750

If this turns out to be true, I will not be purchasing this edition of Fallout.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKuoKgOHugo

[Aluvius]

I'd like an mmo Fallout, but not something that's like 40 players on a server ala most survival games.

[Gelston]

https://scontent.fmem1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/33923262_1859280244139117_4974053285364236288_n.jp g?_nc_cat=0&_nc_eui2=AeHaQ1Xq1MpIWaTvXsVj3Sf5xhoyMxaicVCAmusvj VPN4X3ST2_srF0zTu43vXdc5PKw8Ope9lF6F8Fc29Ah07Ky-pvug5dKu-OHHQQJxTFb1Q&oh=128a2f400aea86d18c697cd19facba8b&oe=5B825DF8

I hope this is true, but it has a high chance of being pure bullshit.

[Taernath]

>trusting 4chan leaks

[Gelston]

>trusting 4chan leaks

I'm about 99% sure it is shit, but of Bethesda does come out and confirm some of it, then the rest will look a lot more legit.

[Taernath]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-3X04jwJ0U

@~5:45

Can't play completely offline, can't turn off PvP

"There are no NPCs"

Todd considers FO76 a game as a service

No mods at launch, some period further in you might have you own private world with mods

[Taernath]

Noclip documentary on development


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi8PTAJ2Hjs

[Gelston]

That is a pretty long video for "Game mode cut from Fallout 4 and turned into its own game"

[Taernath]

That is a pretty long video for "Game mode cut from Fallout 4 and turned into its own game"

There's a lot of interesting stuff on there about the limitations of their Creation engine and it answers some questions people have been asking about how FO76 will play. Some of the stuff looks intriguing but there's still a 0% chance of me getting it anywhere close to launch.

[Gelston]

There's a lot of interesting stuff on there about the limitations of their Creation engine and it answers some questions people have been asking about how FO76 will play. Some of the stuff looks intriguing but there's still a 0% chance of me getting it anywhere close to launch.

I was considering it actually. I'm at about a 10% chance.

[Taernath]

I was considering it actually. I'm at about a 10% chance.

The only thing that would make me rethink things is if they had an offline/no pvp option. I do NOT want to deal with the xXxPussySniper420xXxs of the world.

[Gelston]

The only thing that would make me rethink things is if they had an offline/no pvp option. I do NOT want to deal with the xXxPussySniper420xXxs of the world.

For me it really depends on how able I am to ignore other players. If PvP is a flag, then I have a higher chance of getting it. If not, I'm a lot less interested.

[Whirlin]

So, the survival building genre has also matured since the days of DayZ/Rust... It started off back in the day with Minecraft, evolved into DayZ/Rust/Ark, and then the next tier of evolution are games like the Forest/Eco/Conan Exiles. A LOT of people HATE the genre... Since they're following a trend of a survival game type that has been evolved, there's a few things we can assume about the direction, based on the most recent games:

PVP has been a flag in the last few games... actually Eco was purely co-op, with no option for PvP. During the interviews for 76, it seemed as though there was no incentive for PvP rewards, and while they weren't going to actively disable it, they were going to decentivize it. It seems like it's more meant of an active decision to engage in PvP rather than a "Ohh, someone's there, lets kill him" situation.

With Conan Exiles, there are dedicated hosted servers, but also the ability to host either official, through a third party, or modded servers individually, with whatever rulesets you want. PvP, XP growth rates, crafting time rates, etc. Lots of sliders to adjust as necessary for however you want to play. Conan Exiles also had a single player mode if you didn't want a persistent world. From a business perspective, this makes sense... it enables them to dynamically scale up/down their infrastructure with virtual boxes through an Azure/AWS service, while charging for private hosting as a commodity with relatively limited overhead. There's no subscription, no requirement to run your own server, and they make servers available for all for those people without friends. But, also enabling established groups the ability for more custom tailored play at a premium. Historically the costs of running a private server through a third party has been substantially less than a Gemstone subscription (<$10/month, depending on size).

Aside from the technology, the interesting path that we've been seeing is the introduction of plot into these styles of games. Minecraft starting with 0 plot, but then DayZ having some horror elements, and now Conan Exiles having a full dungeon progression/storyline associated with it, while also having base building/open world mechanics. The style of games have really evolved into a more personal-MMO style.

So, there are a variety of assumptions built into how Fallout76 will operate, but that's based on maturity of the evolving genre. I don't think they would step back in terms of functionality and maturity based on the current environment, but we shall see.

My recommendation to anyone considering picking up Fallout76 would be the same as any of the other survival/building/rpg crossover games... Only pick them up if you already have a group of people to play with. If you don't have gaming friends, this title will likely suck for you. You may enjoy it, you may not, but you likely won't get the most out of it. Or form your own group, or join an established group (you know, make friends)...

[Erous]

For me it really depends on how able I am to ignore other players. If PvP is a flag, then I have a higher chance of getting it. If not, I'm a lot less interested.

I'm with you on this. I'm a huge Fallout 3 and 4 fan, so was hoping more of the same. I think if they go the route of Elder Scrolls online and take the lessons learned from that, it'll be a good game. If open world PvP is a requirement, then I may have some issues. I'm buying it regardless so we'll see how it goes.

[Taernath]

During the interviews for 76, it seemed as though there was no incentive for PvP rewards, and while they weren't going to actively disable it, they were going to decentivize it. It seems like it's more meant of an active decision to engage in PvP rather than a "Ohh, someone's there, lets kill him" situation.

When has that ever stopped people?

[Gelston]

Yeah, people will still do it just to do it. Hell, people troll the fuck out of FB too. Pissing people off is its own reward.

That is part of the reason I played Elite: Dangerous in offline mode, you'd have all this cool shit and then some rando out of nowhere would pop in and blow up your brand new freighter without so much as a word.

[peam]

So, the survival building genre has also matured since the days of DayZ/Rust... It started off back in the day with Minecraft, evolved into DayZ/Rust/Ark, and then the next tier of evolution are games like the Forest/Eco/Conan Exiles. A LOT of people HATE the genre... Since they're following a trend of a survival game type that has been evolved, there's a few things we can assume about the direction, based on the most recent games:

PVP has been a flag in the last few games... actually Eco was purely co-op, with no option for PvP. During the interviews for 76, it seemed as though there was no incentive for PvP rewards, and while they weren't going to actively disable it, they were going to decentivize it. It seems like it's more meant of an active decision to engage in PvP rather than a "Ohh, someone's there, lets kill him" situation.

With Conan Exiles, there are dedicated hosted servers, but also the ability to host either official, through a third party, or modded servers individually, with whatever rulesets you want. PvP, XP growth rates, crafting time rates, etc. Lots of sliders to adjust as necessary for however you want to play. Conan Exiles also had a single player mode if you didn't want a persistent world. From a business perspective, this makes sense... it enables them to dynamically scale up/down their infrastructure with virtual boxes through an Azure/AWS service, while charging for private hosting as a commodity with relatively limited overhead. There's no subscription, no requirement to run your own server, and they make servers available for all for those people without friends. But, also enabling established groups the ability for more custom tailored play at a premium. Historically the costs of running a private server through a third party has been substantially less than a Gemstone subscription (<$10/month, depending on size).

Aside from the technology, the interesting path that we've been seeing is the introduction of plot into these styles of games. Minecraft starting with 0 plot, but then DayZ having some horror elements, and now Conan Exiles having a full dungeon progression/storyline associated with it, while also having base building/open world mechanics. The style of games have really evolved into a more personal-MMO style.

So, there are a variety of assumptions built into how Fallout76 will operate, but that's based on maturity of the evolving genre. I don't think they would step back in terms of functionality and maturity based on the current environment, but we shall see.

My recommendation to anyone considering picking up Fallout76 would be the same as any of the other survival/building/rpg crossover games... Only pick them up if you already have a group of people to play with. If you don't have gaming friends, this title will likely suck for you. You may enjoy it, you may not, but you likely won't get the most out of it. Or form your own group, or join an established group (you know, make friends)...

Hi, Whirlin.

[Whirlin]

When has that ever stopped people?
True... but they seemed pretty adamant in interviews to remove incentivizes and remove penalties associated with PvP...

So if you die to a deathclaw, lets say you drop everything. If a PVPer kills you, you get teleported back home. Meanwhile, you kill an NPC, you find a cap, you kill a PC, you find a nothing... It's a little transportation time, but little/no incentive either side.

You're right, people are still going to be people, and people suck. But, that also goes back to server selection, and potentially other server settings/etc. It should be better than in like, DayZ if that's your comparison.

[Taernath]

You're right, people are still going to be people, and people suck. But, that also goes back to server selection, and potentially other server settings/etc. It should be better than in like, DayZ if that's your comparison.

DayZ, WoW, The Division, pretty much any game with ambush style PvP. You're always going to be losing something, even if it's just time. They haven't explained how loot will work, so it's possible you can be fighting a Deathclaw, get it down to low health, then some guy kills you and it, and keeps the loot for himself.

Howard has been pretty clear there will be no way to turn PvP off, but thematically PvP doesn't really fit anyway because the guys you're murdering are literally your neighbors in the vault.

[Whirlin]

DayZ, WoW, The Division, pretty much any game with ambush style PvP. You're always going to be losing something, even if it's just time. They haven't explained how loot will work, so it's possible you can be fighting a Deathclaw, get it down to low health, then some guy kills you and it, and keeps the loot for himself.

Howard has been pretty clear there will be no way to turn PvP off, but thematically PvP doesn't really fit anyway because the guys you're murdering are literally your neighbors in the vault.

True, it will be dependent on the other mechanics. WOW and the Division are primary MMOs first, developing out of that genre. I'd argue DayZ, as I look more into it, is more of a survival game rather than founded in a building game. I haven't played it myself, but it seems that establishing our own base has been a relatively new development. Whereas something like Rust (I probably mistook DayZ and Rust in my earlier posts), it's grounded more in building for survival.

In regards to drops... the mechanics around launch codes implied instanced? No idea though.

In Conan, Eco, or Ark, if PvP meant being sent back to spawn without losing items, it could have been a fucking godsend a lot of the time. If the Fallout76 world is that open as they say it is, it could be rather nice to be sent home post-farming, or even mid-farming to the safety of your base lossless. There's also limited fast travel capabilities in those games.

[Wrathbringer]

Dear Whirlin,

Please re-manifest powers and ban pk. Thanks.

Sincerely,

Wrathbringer

[Parkbandit]

In Conan, Eco, or Ark, if PvP meant being sent back to spawn without losing items, it could have been a fucking godsend a lot of the time.

I'm a big fan of Ark.. and I can tell you if you didn't lose any items during PvP, it would kill the game.

That's the danger.. the thrill...

[Astray]

I'm a big fan of Ark.. and I can tell you if you didn't lose any items during PvP, it would kill the game.

That's the danger.. the thrill...

PvP with loss of gear is and always will be one of the most satisfying aspects of a PvP oriented game. That's why those 'raid for resource' type of games are always huge.

[Malisai]

Looks like a couple things hit with this. Players under level 5 cant be killed by PCs, and there will be fast travel.

No news as to how much fast travel, was basically asked "will there be fast travel" and the answer was "yes". For the players under level 5, they said that was not set in stone.

[drauz]

PvP with loss of gear is and always will be one of the most satisfying aspects of a PvP oriented game. That's why those 'raid for resource' type of games are always huge.

If I kill you in GS can I have all your things?

[Gelston]

PvP with loss of gear is and always will be one of the most satisfying aspects of a PvP oriented game. That's why those 'raid for resource' type of games are always huge.

And I disagree. I like to just play a game without being fucked with. That is why I don't play either of those.

[Whirlin]

I'm a big fan of Ark.. and I can tell you if you didn't lose any items during PvP, it would kill the game.

That's the danger.. the thrill...
I didn't like Ark that much... it was absolutely revolutionary for it's time, with interesting mechanics/etc... however, I didn't like the idea of growth within that game really being based off of the dinosaurs that you captured. The levels seemed to have minimal impact beyond talents to build specific buildings... With Ark, you could improve HP/Damage/Gathering Speed/Carrying etc, if you tamed/upgraded dinosaurs. It was neat and all, but the fundamental capturing of dinosaurs wasn't a very enjoyable mechanic.

I just thought Conan was an improvement on many fronts, with the growth being on the individual character and not through the capturing mechanic. When you leveled, you still gained the ability to unlock more building opportunities, but also gained more HP/Damage/Carrying capacity. But the best thing was that it was all individualized growth, that was yours to keep. If the dinosaur died, your set back hours, if you died in Conan... you gotta run to your corpse, gather your stuff, you lose your warpaint...

Maybe it was the UI of Ark, or because I didn't get that much into it... it was just difficult to tell which dinosaur to go for what, etc. It was hard to feel the implications of growth like when it's individualized to your character.

In regards to the PvP aspect... Yeah, I agree that riskless is worthless. However, I still think that a server setting option would be best. I'd really be surprised if they didn't 180 from that. Apparently they needed to disable cross-console compatibility because Sony wouldn't engage with them....

[Astray]

If I kill you in GS can I have all your things?

If only GS wasn't such a fucking care bear factory of GM intervention.

[Gelston]

If only GS wasn't such a fucking care bear factory of GM intervention.

Haha, I remember once I was testing spells out on my own characters and a GM pulled them both and yelled at me for non-consensual pvp. I was like... I'm both of these characters.. Then she said "well you better not let a healer heal you!"

[Astray]

Haha, I remember once I was testing spells out on my own characters and a GM pulled them both and yelled at me for non-consensual pvp. I was like... I'm both of these characters.. Then she said "well you better not let a healer heal you!"

I mean, the Death topic has all those hilariously blatant PvP moments that turn into GM intervention IG. But they shouldn't be intervening in every little conflict and they certainly shouldn't be fucking with people who feel like fighting IC.

[Gelston]

I mean, the Death topic has all those hilariously blatant PvP moments that turn into GM intervention IG. But they shouldn't be intervening in every little conflict and they certainly shouldn't be fucking with people who feel like fighting IC.

They should only intervene when someone(that is actually involved, not random whiny bystander) asks them to intervene and only then if it is some blatant BS.

[Astray]

They should only intervene when someone(that is actually involved) asks them to intervene and only then if it is some blatant BS.

Yeah, agreed.

[Taernath]

Apparently they needed to disable cross-console compatibility because Sony wouldn't engage with them....

I don't believe Sony being unwilling to do crossplay affects the rest of them doing crossplay. My understanding is that in other games the crossplay architecture is still there, just the switch isn't flipped on Sony's end. I think a FO title would be a LOT harder to do crossplay for than, say, Rocket League, but MS/Bethesda are just running with Sony being jackholes as an excuse.

[Gelston]

I don't believe Sony being unwilling to do crossplay affects the rest of them doing crossplay. My understanding is that in other games the crossplay architecture is still there, just the switch isn't flipped on Sony's end. I think a FO title would be a LOT harder to do crossplay for than, say, Rocket League, but MS/Bethesda are just running with Sony being jackholes as an excuse.

They won't do crossplay with PCs, because we don't want to play with filthy console peasants.

[Taernath]

They won't do crossplay with PCs, because we don't want to play with filthy console peasants.

It would be hilarious being able to snipe them from two pre-loaded sectors over.

[Astray]

They won't do crossplay with PCs, because we don't want to play with filthy console peasants.

Well I don't want to play with someone using Cheat Engine! SO THERE!

[Whirlin]

I don't believe Sony being unwilling to do crossplay affects the rest of them doing crossplay. My understanding is that in other games the crossplay architecture is still there, just the switch isn't flipped on Sony's end. I think a FO title would be a LOT harder to do crossplay for than, say, Rocket League, but MS/Bethesda are just running with Sony being jackholes as an excuse.
There's been a lot about their business practices... I heard they they refused to let Fortnite players onto the PS4 version if they ever tied their account with a PC or XBox, or some other nonsense like that. Apparently according to some ex CEO or something, they were just greedy about exclusives. Per your comments though, I think it'd be foolish of Sony to keep their line with a large release like a FO title, I think we'll see that change before release.

And... apparently I found a translated article of the one I had read in German, which... ... seemingly mirrors everything I said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/fallout-76-wont-have-cross-platform-multiplayer-because-of-sony/ar-AAzuqmI

[Taernath]

"Beta" set for October.

[Gelston]

The Beta will be the actual release. Progress carries over and all that.

[Taernath]

Progress carries over and all that.

So the guys who preordered will be running around in power armor with nuclear launch codes while everyone else is trying to duct tape together a pipe rifle? ROFL this fucking game, man

[Astray]

That's gonna be fucked.

[Gelston]

So the guys who preordered will be running around in power armor with nuclear launch codes while everyone else is trying to duct tape together a pipe rifle? ROFL this fucking game, man

Yes.

[Taernath]

Final nail in the coffin:

https://www.overclock3d.net/news/software/fallout_76_won_t_be_released_on_steam_-_pc_version_will_be_exclusive_to_bethesda_net/1


Fallout 76 won't be released on Steam - PC version will be exclusive to Bethesda.net

Bethesda has officially confirmed that Fallout 76 will not be released on Steam, and will instead release as a store exclusive on the publisher's standalone Bethesda.net storefront.

In the company's Fallout 76 B.E.T.A (Break-it Early Test Application), Bethesda plans to offer players access to the full game and allow their progress to be transferred to the entire game at launch. B.E.T.A access is guaranteed for all players who pre-order the game on the PlayStation Store, the Xbox One Store and on Bethesda.net.

Beta Access will be granted to Xbox One players first, followed by other platforms. At this time, Bethesda has not revealed when the game's beta will launch. This makes Fallout 76's B.E.T.A feel more like Early Access than a traditional Beta, given its paid for nature and included content.

[Gelston]

Ugh, yeah. I don't like all these companies creating their own clients. They use steam for every other game, it works great.

[Taernath]

I've been taking a perverse interest in watching FO76 get savaged in the reviews. Critics have it at ~5.0, while user reviews are ~2.8 on Meatcritic. It was so bad that it even went on a 33% sale for Black Friday, only a couple of weeks after launch.

Jeff Gerstmann from Giantbomb said in a recent podcast:

“No one on staff wants to play anymore of this videogame. I’m not going to subject myself to another 20-30 hours of this [expletive] mess to just put a number on it. My number is ‘Don’t play this game’.”

https://i.imgur.com/D6l8fu1.gif

I hope Bethesda takes this as a lesson when developing the next Elder Scrolls and future Fallout installments.

[Gelston]

Haha, I'm glad it is turning out like this. I know they pissed off the Fallout fans by making it only online.

[Velfi]

I hope Bethesda takes this as a lesson when developing the next Elder Scrolls and future Fallout installments.

https://i.imgur.com/JljbVAT.gif

[Gelston]

https://i.imgur.com/JljbVAT.gif

Oh, it is hurting them in the only place that they care about. Their penis. I mean, pocket book.1

[Taernath]

Haha, I'm glad it is turning out like this. I know they pissed off the Fallout fans by making it only online.

The online thing is only part of it, and I think it would have been largely expected/forgiven if it had decent co-op, but it doesn't. It's funny how off we were about our griefing concerns too, they really went the opposite direction by making pvp nearly impossible and with literally no incentives.


https://i.imgur.com/JljbVAT.gif

A gril can dream.

[Velfi]

A gril can dream.

Do you guys not have phones?

[Stumplicker]

It really is a shame about Fallout 76. I was wary of it to start with when it was announced, thinking it was just going to be another sandbox pvp game in the same vein as Rust. Those seem to be popping up everywhere and the trend is already on the way out.

Unfortunately, seeing what it actually is, basically all those same things but without the charm of the Fallout atmosphere, is somehow worse. The NPCs make fallout. Sure, the scenery is nice, but it's only half of the world. You can't just program half the world and say "make the other 50% up and fill the void with random online FPS players".

Who would ever think that was a good idea, and who failed to stop them? Seems like both Blizzard and Bethesda are going full George Lucas lately.

[Gelston]

I heard it basically has no story, which is dumb. I'd have considered it if it did. It basically took destiny and then added building and then removed all story elements.

[Taernath]

I heard it basically has no story, which is dumb. I'd have considered it if it did. It basically took destiny and then added building and then removed all story elements.

It has "environmental storytelling" through terminals and notes like other Fallouts, but the main quests are apparently all breadcrumb type things that just have you chasing the Overseer or another character who is inevitably lying dead in a ditch somewhere. Someone said that it's like you're following in the main character's footsteps instead of actually playing them, which sounds absolutely tedious.


It really is a shame about Fallout 76. I was wary of it to start with when it was announced, thinking it was just going to be another sandbox pvp game in the same vein as Rust. Those seem to be popping up everywhere and the trend is already on the way out.

Unfortunately, seeing what it actually is, basically all those same things but without the charm of the Fallout atmosphere, is somehow worse. The NPCs make fallout. Sure, the scenery is nice, but it's only half of the world. You can't just program half the world and say "make the other 50% up and fill the void with random online FPS players".

Who would ever think that was a good idea, and who failed to stop them? Seems like both Blizzard and Bethesda are going full George Lucas lately.

From what I've been hearing there's a lot of copy/paste assets like building interiors, so someone probably looked at FO4 and figured they could re-use what was already made to make a quick buck. Which sucks, because the map itself and the monsters look really interesting.

[Gelston]

The original thing I heard was that FO4 was going to have online play too, but they cut it and made this from the assets.

[Stumplicker]

From what I've been hearing there's a lot of copy/paste assets like building interiors, so someone probably looked at FO4 and figured they could re-use what was already made to make a quick buck. Which sucks, because the map itself and the monsters look really interesting.

Yeah...when Fallout 4 came out and the entire settlement thing really seemed tacked on/without purpose, I knew they had planned to use all those assets for something else. I just didn't suspect this was their endgame.

New Vegas re-used almost all of Fallout 3's assets, but it got by because the worldbuilding and characters were better. You take out of the characters, and you're just left with a neat looking world re-using old assets. To be honest, I wish 4's story had been done by the studio that did New Vegas. The characters and story in NV were way better developed than 3 or 4. You actually cared about them.

[Gelston]

According to Gameology Bethesda is renegging on their promise to provide refunds.

[Taernath]

From what I've been reading, it's like one dude who claimed they were able to apply for a refund before it was overturned, but Bethesda hasn't promised anything and the articles about it are using a misleading title. This is their digital policy:


“if you want to download digital content within the 30-day cancellation period, you must agree to waive your cancellation rights.”

So if you downloaded the game, you're SOL. Which is pretty standard, at least on PS4/Xbox

[Gelston]

From what I've been reading, it's like one dude who claimed they were able to apply for a refund before it was overturned, but Bethesda hasn't promised anything and the articles about it are using a misleading title. This is their digital policy:



So if you downloaded the game, you're SOL. Which is pretty standard, at least on PS4/Xbox

It isn't standard on PS4. See No Man's Sky. On PC, Steam gives refunds for digital downloads too. No questions.

[Taernath]

It isn't standard on PS4. See No Man's Sky. On PC, Steam gives refunds for digital downloads too. No questions.

I think Sony made an exception for No Man's Sky, because their policy is otherwise the same as Bethesda's:


Digital content that you have started downloading, streaming and in-game consumables that have been delivered, are not eligible for a refund unless the content is faulty.

Steam refunds are like a handful of hours played OR within 30ish days of purchase while Xbox/MS says something like 'all digital purchases are final'. Of course, FO76 was on Bethesda's launcher not Steam.

[Gelston]

I think Sony made an exception for No Man's Sky, because their policy is otherwise the same as Bethesda's:



Steam refunds are like a handful of hours played OR within 30ish days of purchase while Xbox/MS says something like 'all digital purchases are final'. Of course, FO76 was on Bethesda's launcher not Steam.

2 hours for steam. That is enough time to try a game and say it blows and return it.

[Stanley Burrell]

I'm pretty sure this forum member I'm quoting had the right idea:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKuoKgOHugo

[drauz]

https://media.giphy.com/media/2ANySOix9Dqx4mqlua/giphy.gif

[Androidpk]

So they pulled a bait and switch with the collectors edition, promising a canvas bag and instead shipping a cheap nylon bag, saying the bag offered (which is still being offered by retailers) was too expensive to actually ship.

[Astray]

So they pulled a bait and switch with the collectors edition, promising a canvas bag and instead shipping a cheap nylon bag, saying the bag offered (which is still being offered by retailers) was too expensive to actually ship.

That last bit is what a help team member said. It's not an official statement but it's looking that way.

[Taernath]

The only other scenario would be he somehow got a nylon bag by mistake, which is extremely unlikely.

They've gone the cheap route before (hello FO4 Pip Boy edition), but this is the first time they said something would be a certain way in a special edition and it really wasn't. That Nuka Cola fridge was kind of pushing it, too.

[Androidpk]

They're addressing this fuck up by giving everyone $5 worth of in game currency, which as someone has pointed out already, isn't even enough to buy the in game canvas bag skin.

[Velfi]

https://i.imgur.com/JcUbdjk.gif

[Astray]

They're addressing this fuck up by giving everyone $5 worth of in game currency, which as someone has pointed out already, isn't even enough to buy the in game canvas bag skin.

https://i.imgur.com/IwqoB0h.gif

[Taernath]

Here, I guess, is the official response from a rep on Reddit:

https://old.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/a19jr6/fallout_76_200_collectors_edition_comes_with/eaoaoqc/?context=3

Thanks for tagging us in this post. We’re not sure if you've seen this make the rounds on various areas of the internet, yet, but we've made an official statement about this issue and included it below:

"The Bethesda Store's Support member is a temporary contract employee and not directly employed by Bethesda or Bethesda Game Studios. We apologize to the customer who took the time to reach out. The support response was incorrect and not in accordance with our conduct policy. Unfortunately, due to unavailability of materials, we had to switch to a nylon carrying case in the Fallout 76: Power Armor Edition. We hope this doesn’t prevent anyone from enjoying what we feel is one of our best collector’s editions."

Thanks again for tagging us and letting us know.

Edit: We are working with our CS team to provide 500 Atoms to Power Armor Edition purchasers. Please visit our Support article here that provides instructions on how to get in touch with them: https://help.bethesda.net/app/answers/detail/a_id/44432

DO YOU GUYS NOT HAVE CANVAS BAGS???

[Androidpk]

Here, I guess, is the official response from a rep on Reddit:

https://old.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/a19jr6/fallout_76_200_collectors_edition_comes_with/eaoaoqc/?context=3


DO YOU GUYS NOT HAVE CANVAS BAGS???

That response is beyond weak. Unless I'm mistaken and canvas is a rare material that's hard to find.

[Gelston]

It is like they just set out to make the worst gaming experience possible. When their next game launches and doesn't completely suck it will be hailed as a masterpiece.

[Stumplicker]

Guys it's okay. It's one of the BEST COLLECTOR'S EDITIONS they've ever made!

[Astray]

It is like they just set out to make the worst gaming experience possible. When their next game launches and doesn't completely suck it will be hailed as a masterpiece.

At this point they could release the framework of a game and still have people defend them.

[Taernath]

Found this in that account's other patchnote posts:


Cryolator Effects: Players hit with the Cryolator are now Chilled, Frosted, or Frozen depending on how many times they are hit. The duration of movement speed reductions applied by these effects have also been decreased from 2 hours to 30 seconds.

Like how does that even get in game, damn.

https://media.giphy.com/media/fGuqeA6PiXINa/giphy.gif

[Astray]

Like how does that even get in game, damn.

Delete that before Wyrom gets ideas.

[Stumplicker]

I think we're missing the real coverup here. It's a conspiracy. Clearly, Blizzard had a sleeper agent implanted at Bethesda to be utilized only in some sort of stock-doomsday scenario. The keyphrase was hearing Bethesda held up as an example of how to announce a side game correctly when people compared Diablo Immortal to Fallout Shelter's release. The sleeper agent was activated, and Fallout 76's release is what we got as a perfect distraction to let us all forget about Blizzard's giant marketing blunder mere days prior.

[Gelston]

Found this in that account's other patchnote posts:



Like how does that even get in game, damn.

https://media.giphy.com/media/fGuqeA6PiXINa/giphy.gif

That would have been one of the best trolling weapons ever.

[Gelston]

At this point they could release the framework of a game and still have people defend them.

I've seen a few people defending it on FB, but honestly, it seems less than other games they've released. Actually, I have probably enjoyed every other game they have released. Some were better than others, some were let downs because you expected more, but I don't think any of their games have ever been horrible. This game might be that. I can't say for sure, because I hate to be overly judgmental on games I've never played, but from everything I'm reading, I can confidently say this games sounds like a bag of smashed assholes.

[Stumplicker]

It seems like all the elements of several good games are there, but...they couldn't decide what the game was about, so it's just about...nothing, really. It's like they halfway built it to be Rust, halfway built it to be Destiny, halfway built it to be Fallout...and then took the worst design choices from each and mushed them together into one game. Like they didn't want to alienate anyone and in so doing alienated everyone by accident.

Don't want to alienate people who want to play without pvp? Okay, pvp is now optional but also gives no benefit.
Don't want to alienate people who want a Fallout game for the story/lore? Okay here's some audio tapes but if you play with friends be prepared to make them stop, wait, and shut up while you sit and read a computer terminal.
Don't want to alienate people who want a fun co-op experience? Okay, but let's do it with Fallout/Elder Scrolls' single player combat mechanics, clearly the strongest suit in our games. It's what our customers are familiar with

[Tgo01]

Here, I guess, is the official response from a rep on Reddit:

https://old.reddit.com/r/fo76/comments/a19jr6/fallout_76_200_collectors_edition_comes_with/eaoaoqc/?context=3


DO YOU GUYS NOT HAVE CANVAS BAGS???

So their response is basically the CS rep was 100% correct, but he could have worded in a way that didn't make it look like Bethesda didn't give a shit, even though they don't.

[Wrathbringer]

It is like they just set out to make the worst gaming experience possible. When their next game launches and doesn't completely suck it will be hailed as a masterpiece.

I read that elder scrolls 6 will be using the same engine as fallout 76.

[Gelston]

I read that elder scrolls 6 will be using the same engine as fallout 76.

I mean, probably. They just created it for Skyrim.

[Taernath]

Creation is fine, it's more that Bethesda is terrible at QC and bugfixing. FO76 is especially bad because Creation wasn't designed for multiplayer, so the chunks that handle it are basically just duct taped on.

[Stumplicker]

Their only previous online game uses the Hero engine, actually. ESO. Bound to be some growing pains taking their own engine online.

[Gelston]

Their only previous online game uses the Hero engine, actually. ESO. Bound to be some growing pains taking their own engine online.

It originally used Hero. It didn't at launch. No players ever used it with HeroEngine, only internal builds had it.

[Stumplicker]

It originally used Hero. It didn't at launch. No players ever used it with HeroEngine, only internal builds had it.

That's what they had claimed early on, that it was just going to be used for prototyping, but it does in fact run on Hero. https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine (Note: I can't test the validity of that link because of my firewall right now. was just the first one I googled, but I did read some more about it when I tried out ESO a few months ago)

[Gelston]

That's what they had claimed early on, that it was just going to be used for prototyping, but it does in fact run on Hero. https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/474236/hero-engine-employee-confirms-elder-scrolls-online-does-indeed-run-on-the-hero-engine (Note: I can't test the validity of that link because of my firewall right now. was just the first one I googled, but I did read some more about it when I tried out ESO a few months ago)

Dude, I play ESO a lot. The HeroEngine splash doesn't even appear anymore. This topic used to come up in the forums on ESO a lot. They do not use HeroEngine at all anymore. They did fer original Dev and then created their own.

The only people saying ESO uses Hero are random Hero employees. ZeniMax Employees say they don't use it at all anymore.

[Stumplicker]

Dude, I play ESO a lot. The HeroEngine splash doesn't even appear anymore. This topic used to come up in the forums on ESO a lot. They do not use HeroEngine at all anymore. They did fer original Dev and then created their own.

The only people saying ESO uses Hero are random Hero employees. ZeniMax Employees say they don't use it at all anymore.

I don't know what the actual case is. Google thinks it does. I see the splash screen for it when I start the program, but either way, it's not Creation.

[Gelston]

https://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

Here is more info on them creating their own Engine. They only used Hero in the early days because they needed to beable to work on stuff while they made their own Engine.

They do use the Havok physics engine though.


I don't know what the actual case is. Google thinks it does. I see the splash screen for it when I start the program, but either way, it's not Creation.

If you're seeing the Splash Screen for Hero, your version needs updated. I think early Beta had Hero. Of course it isn't creation. Creation isn't made for MMO play.

[Stumplicker]

Can't check that link at work either but I'll take your word for it.

Edit to add: My main point was that they did have an option for an online specific engine already. I think they went with Creation for FO76 because of the world creation tools it has, which I'm guessing are very similar to the player building system.

[Gelston]

Can't check that link at work either but I'll take your word for it.

Edit to add: My main point was that they did have an option for an online specific engine already. I think they went with Creation for FO76 because of the world creation tools it has, which I'm guessing are very similar to the player building system.

They did it for 76 because it had the building tools they were looking for, and 76 is really just the afterbirth of Fallout 4. Hell, you can actually make Skyrim multiplayer with a bunch of mods.

[Stumplicker]

They did it for 76 because it had the building tools they were looking for, and 76 is really just the afterbirth of Fallout 4. Hell, you can actually make Skyrim multiplayer with a bunch of mods.

Yeah network code is becoming more and more of a reality for modders. That's great. I've played Kerbal Space Program and Euro Truck Simulator 2 multiplayer (and X-com 2 co-op) through mods. They were unfinished and didn't work perfect, but the ability is there for sure.

Now if only they'd perfect it for Rimworld.

[Gelston]

The Skyrim one, it basically codes the joiners as a follower, so you have to be in the same loaded instance as the host. He walks into a cave, you now appear in the cave with him, for instance. I haven't played around with it, but it seems neat enough.

[Stumplicker]

The Skyrim one, it basically codes the joiners as a follower, so you have to be in the same loaded instance as the host. He walks into a cave, you now appear in the cave with him, for instance. I haven't played around with it, but it seems neat enough.

Now that you mention Skyrim..I never did beat that. I have to do that at some point. I have a horrible problem with open world RPGs. I haven't beaten one since Morrowind I don't think. I get closer and closer to the end of them, and then I try to fill in all the blanks and complete all the side quests once I reach a point of "almost done" with the story. Inevitably I get bored with all the filler and quit, only to restart the process a year or two later on a new computer without my old save files.

I've never finished....Oblivion, Skyrim, Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy X-2, Final Fantasy XII, Fallout 3, Fallout 4, The Witcher 3 (though I watched someone finish that so it counts), Dragon Age Inquisition. Actually, I did finish New Vegas. That was too good to not. Got all the alternate endings too.

[Taernath]

Vanilla Fallout 3 ending was trash.

https://i.imgur.com/vIs0lah.png

[Gelston]

I knew the dude was the pro's son the entire time. Some ass hole spoiled it before launch on a random website I was looking at.

[Taernath]

I knew the dude was the pro's son the entire time. Some ass hole spoiled it before launch on a random website I was looking at.

You're talking about Fallout 4? I knew as soon as they put you back in cryo after the kidnapping they were going to be fucking around with your kid's age.

[Gelston]

You're talking about Fallout 4? I knew as soon as they put you back in cryo after the kidnapping they were going to be fucking around with your kid's age.

I'll never know if I would have known it from the start or not. Because I was told it was. Goddamn assholes.

[Astray]

People are saying not to take the 500 atoms (or w/e) because it'll count as recompense and you could lose out on potential lawsuits.

oof

[Gelston]

People are saying not to take the 500 atoms (or w/e) because it'll count as recompense and you could lose out on potential lawsuits.

oof

Do you actually have a choice? I figured they'd just deposit it directly onto your account.

[Astray]

Do you actually have a choice? I figured they'd just deposit it directly onto your account.

I'm not sure but people are making it sound like it's a choice.

[Gelston]

I'm not sure but people are making it sound like it's a choice.

Any time they've ever given out free crap for service lapses in ESO it just appeared in your account, no prompts to accept or decline. Both companies fall under ZeniMax Media. Figured they'd just do the same thing there.

Although I could see them adding a prompt for this one with a bunch of fine print that no one will read.

[Astray]

Any time they've ever given out free crap for service lapses in ESO it just appeared in your account, no prompts to accept or decline. Both companies fall under ZeniMax Media. Figured they'd just do the same thing there.

Ditto. That's what I'd expect. A law firm also posted up that they want to help dissatisfied customers form a class action lawsuit.

[Gelston]

Ditto. That's what I'd expect. A law firm also posted up that they want to help dissatisfied customers form a class action lawsuit.

Haha, of course it did. They'll get like 50% of the total winnings and all the class action members will get less than the value of 500 atoms.

[drauz]

https://i.imgur.com/xqJA94K.jpg

[Androidpk]

:lol:

[Astray]

So apparently "influential" people were given a different type of bag before they were given first look at the game. A far better one, but still different.

People are now furiously banding together to bring a false advertisement lawsuit against Bethesda.

[Taernath]

Fallout 76 is the shitshow that keeps on giving.

[Astray]

Bethesda perma-banned some dudes for raiding other settlements while they were shouting homophobic rhetoric. Initially it was going to be a few days but the backlash and video evidence were too damning.

[Taernath]

The kid who did it says he has no regrets about it so I don't have too much sympathy.

[Astray]

The kid who did it says he has no regrets about it so I don't have too much sympathy.

He said he was RPing or something, right?

[Taernath]

He said he was RPing or something, right?

I don't remember seeing that. It was something like, 'yeah I did it, we were just messing around, I won't do it again but I don't regret it and you won't get an apology'.

It would be funny if his parents ground him on top of his lifetime ban.

[Stumplicker]

Part of me feels like the only reason Bethesda was happy to accommodate the video was to prove that there were four people playing the game at one point. I mean, they just banned most of them, but at one point, there were four!

In all seriousness though, great, ban all those sorts. Fine. They knew going in that this genre of game was 95% those people though. Play Rust for literally 30 seconds and you'll run into one or more of them. In reality, Bethesda's reaction here was just an attempt to reset the press cycle.

[Astray]

It was in one article but none of the others I've read so I'm going to believe the kid just wanted to fuck around and be stupid without thinking of the penalties.

That AJ guy though, he needs to get a fucking spine. Letting some dumb ass high school senior internet bully him.

[Stumplicker]

I think the real takeaway here from the video is look how crisp those damage animations are! I love how the guy just stands perfectly still for 30 seconds without flinching while 3 guys are bashing his brains in before dying.

[Gelston]

Everyone here says it sucks so I'm going to play it and say it is the best game ever created

[Stanley Burrell]

Everyone here says it sucks so I'm going to play it and say it is the best game ever created

Cannot find "F'd in the A" where the main Goth kid is all, "I'm so non-conformist, that I'm non-confirming with you guys." And then goes to dance.

Or something to that effect. Sheeit.

[Gelston]

Bethesda has announced that it is going to replace nylon bags with the promised canvas bags for owners of Fallout 76's $200 Power Armor Edition.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2018/12/03/fallout-76s-200-power-armor-edition-shipped-with-bag-of-cheaper-quality-than-promised?abthid=5c05baaa59d478857900090a&fbclid=IwAR1TgIe4_n98lOSvpNcXmYxltQCA7VifeqtQYBf17 WWqlwgu4xixjP1FyLY

Well, one less lawsuit.

[Velfi]

Thank goodness the great canvas drought of '18 is finally over!

[Taernath]

They should just send out trash bags.

[drauz]

They should just send out trash bags.

I thought that's what they did send out... They did kind of look like one.

[Androidpk]

Bethesda must have found a vault full if canvas because they're going to send out the bags they initially promised.

[Stumplicker]

Fun fact, PVC, one of the primary ingredients in canvas, is on list 2 of section 301. That may have played a part in the decision to go to nylon, since the materials became more expensive to import. Still a shitty implementation of a bad decision after they advertised canvas, but if I were the importer eyeing that, I'd have given a hard look at nylon too. The materials there are also affected, but at a much lower starting cost. Clearly if I'd already advertised one thing I wouldn't swap it, but the costs for those mix boxes add up faster than you think. Especially when you've got customized items in them. They're some of the lowest margin products I sell, all said and done, and I -got- the lower material prices before the tariffs hit.

[Taernath]

Fun fact, PVC, one of the primary ingredients in canvas, is on list 2 of section 301. That may have played a part in the decision to go to nylon, since the materials became more expensive to import.

Trump caused Fallout 76.

[Stumplicker]

Trump caused Fallout 76.

Fo sheezy.

Out of curiosity I decided to eyeball import everything in the kit because I was doubting my previous comment. There's a little bit of leeway depending on how many they produced, but I'm guessing between 2500-5000 to retail at $200. 5000 would be a million gross on just a high end novelty product. That's probably a stretch, even for AAA. I don't know if the $200 includes shipping, but I'm going to assume it does.

The helmet itself is between 3-5 molds, one LED kit, one sound kit, painting and assembly. The molds are expensive. Looks like there's a bit of aluminized steel piping on there also, which ups the cost. All in, that helmet probably costs $50-60 for them to produce at such a low quantity run, part list 1 tariffs, part list 2 and part list 3. Call it 4 molds here plus one for the plastic figures below, that's about $10000 divided by however many they produced to add to the overall cost. Assuming the middle at say 3750 units, call it $2.85 each extra to offset the mold costs.

The plastic figures are 1 more mold. That's the biggest cost there. Rest is pretty automated. Gonna produce those in bulk and polybag pack. That bag probably costs $2.00 if there are 20 figures in it with a two color offset printed cardboard topper, list 3 tariffs.

The map and book can be produced by the same print house. Assuming the inside of the book is medium weight and only color on the binding, $2.50 each, maybe $0.75 each for the maps, list 3 tariffs.

Box with single color printing outside, $1.15 each or so at that quantity, list 3 tariffs.

Nylon bag, maybe $2.25 each, list 2.

Custom steel game case, $2.00 each, list 1 tariffs.

They're drop shipping these anywhere in the US. Probably a 10 pound package, about 15x15x10 size. Call it $13 for standard shipping on average assuming they've negotiated decent deals with their carriers.

$~55 Helmet
$~2.85molds
$~3.25 printed goods
$~2 case cost
$~2 plastic figures and polybag
$~2.25 nylon bag
$~13 shipping
$60 base game

So you're at $140.35 and you haven't yet paid tariffs or accounted for overhead, not to mention you haven't factored in that 10% of anything you get from even the good factories in China is going to be too defective to sell. You haven't paid your employees to write the 300 page book or make factory drawings for the individual mold pieces of the helmet. That part's not a big leap considering you have 3D modelers on staff, but there's still some work. You're retailing for $200. Yeah I'd have gone with the nylon too. Two thirds of the products on the list here are 10% tariff in addition to the about 3% they were before the trade war, the other third are 25%.

Trump killed Fallout.

[Astray]

Bethesda leaks thousands of peoples credit card info, address, names, phone numbers, etc... through their ticket system. In an effort to give people the initial canvas bag they promised.

Oof.

[Gelston]

Fo sheezy.

Out of curiosity I decided to eyeball import everything in the kit because I was doubting my previous comment. There's a little bit of leeway depending on how many they produced, but I'm guessing between 2500-5000 to retail at $200. 5000 would be a million gross on just a high end novelty product. That's probably a stretch, even for AAA. I don't know if the $200 includes shipping, but I'm going to assume it does.

The helmet itself is between 3-5 molds, one LED kit, one sound kit, painting and assembly. The molds are expensive. Looks like there's a bit of aluminized steel piping on there also, which ups the cost. All in, that helmet probably costs $50-60 for them to produce at such a low quantity run, part list 1 tariffs, part list 2 and part list 3. Call it 4 molds here plus one for the plastic figures below, that's about $10000 divided by however many they produced to add to the overall cost. Assuming the middle at say 3750 units, call it $2.85 each extra to offset the mold costs.

The plastic figures are 1 more mold. That's the biggest cost there. Rest is pretty automated. Gonna produce those in bulk and polybag pack. That bag probably costs $2.00 if there are 20 figures in it with a two color offset printed cardboard topper, list 3 tariffs.

The map and book can be produced by the same print house. Assuming the inside of the book is medium weight and only color on the binding, $2.50 each, maybe $0.75 each for the maps, list 3 tariffs.

Box with single color printing outside, $1.15 each or so at that quantity, list 3 tariffs.

Nylon bag, maybe $2.25 each, list 2.

Custom steel game case, $2.00 each, list 1 tariffs.

They're drop shipping these anywhere in the US. Probably a 10 pound package, about 15x15x10 size. Call it $13 for standard shipping on average assuming they've negotiated decent deals with their carriers.

$~55 Helmet
$~2.85molds
$~3.25 printed goods
$~2 case cost
$~2 plastic figures and polybag
$~2.25 nylon bag
$~13 shipping
$60 base game

So you're at $140.35 and you haven't yet paid tariffs or accounted for overhead, not to mention you haven't factored in that 10% of anything you get from even the good factories in China is going to be too defective to sell. You haven't paid your employees to write the 300 page book or make factory drawings for the individual mold pieces of the helmet. That part's not a big leap considering you have 3D modelers on staff, but there's still some work. You're retailing for $200. Yeah I'd have gone with the nylon too. Two thirds of the products on the list here are 10% tariff in addition to the about 3% they were before the trade war, the other third are 25%.

Trump killed Fallout.

It is their fault for not buying and having the items already on hand when selling them. It was a limited item, they should have already had those and priced it accordingly.

[Gelston]

Bethesda leaks thousands of peoples credit card info, address, names, phone numbers, etc... through their ticket system. In an effort to give people the initial canvas bag they promised.

Oof.

I heard it was just names, phones numbers, and addresses. Because CCs aren't in the ticket system.

[Astray]

I heard it was just names, phones numbers, and addresses. Because CCs aren't in the ticket system.

It was also credit card info. There's a few reddit posters who were claiming they could see the last 4 digits.

[Stumplicker]

It is their fault for not buying and having the items already on hand when selling them. It was a limited item, they should have already had those and priced it accordingly.

Oh no doubt their fault and they should eat the cost. Having put a bunch of those types of things together though, the timeline is usually very tight. By the time R&D finishes, you've got to immediately place orders. It'll take 10-20 days for the back and forth between all the factories to determine what you want. It'll take 10-20 days for mold creation. 10-20 days for samples. 10 days for back and forth with the bank wires. 20-30 days in production. 10-20 days waiting on FCL as all your products get trucked into one port from different factories. 45 days on the water. 3-7 days in customs in New York. Depending on your trucking port, maybe another 3-10 days for hopping another ship. 3-10 days arranging trucks for delivery. Before you know it, 6 months have gone by and you're praying you can get your trucks in in time to throw the packages together and get them out to consumers.

And mind you, you can't start the R&D on this package too too early, because what if one of the things you're including gets cut from the end product? R&D on the retail stuff happens about 2/3 of the way through development. Basically right before crunch time. It sucks.

But yeah, they handled it like crap and absolutely should eat the cost.

[Taernath]

Stump, you might have already answered this, but how much did you estimate the canvas bags to cost?

[Stumplicker]

Stump, you might have already answered this, but how much did you estimate the canvas bags to cost?

Oh, I hadn't, but probably 4-6 bucks each. It all really varies. Canvas can be made of all sorts of materials I think, and it depends how desperate a factory you find. Double, maybe triple the price of the nylon at any rate. Most of the numbers I threw out there were my most medium guesses. Stuff fluctuates a lot depending on where the factory is and what scrap materials are available to be sourced. There's a ton of leftovers for making stuff like this that doesn't have to be FDA approved or sterile or whatnot for science or food purposes that factories utilize.

Edit to add:

My estimate was way off. Once you start adding straps and crap to it, like theirs has, the price of canvas goes crazy. Take these prices as about 1/3 lower after negotiations, but here are a few examples of what Canvas bags cost:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2350-Best-Selling-Army-Green-Business_1932388803.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlis t.normalList.54.4d9c4839B81wLi

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/China-black-canvas-weekend-travel-bags_60701320633.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.2 017203.5.4d9c4839B81wLi&s=p

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Fashionable-high-quality-customized-vintage-canvas_60648094274.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist .normalList.68.4d9c4839B81wLi

Compare that to the much lower "basic" canvas bag, which is probably what they based their initial cost estimates on:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Christmas-canvas-drawstring-sack-gift-bag_60779303467.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.11. 79645be3fQB0r2&s=p

Theirs is probably somewhere in between those in complexity. Probably around $10-13 is where they'd land after negotiations.

[Stumplicker]

As an aside, if there's anyone thinking that maybe they were getting all this from the US....here's an example of a price on some tiny machined piece from the good old US of A. For reference, I ended up paying $23 per piece for this in China.

https://i.imgur.com/tlkfapd.jpg

[drauz]

https://i.imgur.com/YAAd2Of.jpg