Gun Control, Crime, and other bullshit

[pennywise]

Here, I made a topic so you jackasses can argue. Go to it.

[Mistomeer]

Well, there was no such thing as murder before the invention of gunpowder, therefore guns are the reason for murder.

The end.

[Warriorbird]

Y'know, all though I'm anti gun-control, in general... that intro rivals some of my worst for foolishness. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're the worst person ever.

[Mistomeer]

Maybe he's referring to the off-topicness of the opinions?

If I start a topic requesting advice on finding the right abortion doctor, obviously, I'm not looking for a bunch of fucksticks to tell me how abortion is wrong.

[Warriorbird]

I guess. It could've been dealt with a little more diplomatically. I know that sounds foolish on the PC, but it does tend to work better. Or a U2U to a mod.

[Mistomeer]

Or start a topic for all those interested in spouting off about how guns are the work of the devil and wholly responsible for all evil in the world so they can have a jackoff-a-thon over it rather than do it in a place where it's off topic?

[Brattt8525]

Gun control does not bother the criminals who buy their crap from the truck of the local bad guy!

[peam]

Originally posted by Mistomeer
Well, there was no such thing as murder before the invention of gunpowder, therefore guns are the reason for murder.

The end.

I figured I'd quote this, in case you decide to delete it. Seriously, stupidest comment ever.

[Latrinsorm]

He's obviously joking. Dur.

[pennywise]

I did in fact create this thread because of all the off topic posts in the other thread.

Oh, and Peam, all I could say when I read your post was "oh for christ's sake", then I remember it was you, and I figured I should just ignore it and pretend it never happened.

[Mistomeer]

LOL. Best sarcasm ever...

:offtopic:

[peam]

Message board sarcasm and a lot of Guinness don't mix.

You the best drunk poster ever at being drunk and not letting people know that you are drunk while you are posting run on sentence.

[peam]

Practice makes perfect. Two for $5 Guinness night at the strip club rules... and so do guns!

Copy and pasted so people wouldn't soil themselves.


Originally posted by RangerD1
You've gotta be shitting me. If the guy has a gun hes gonna bring it into the situation regardless of what you do, and I refuse to be the motherfucker who shows up to a gun fight with a wooden spoon

And I'm not going to be the motherfucker to incite the shit to the persons with guns to get me popped. I just disagree with the stance wholeheartedly is all.

[Edited on 2-8-2005 by Stanley Burrell]

So you'd feel responsible if someone entered your home, and you did something to make them mad, so they did something to you?

What a sucker.

Originally posted by RangerD1
So you'd feel responsible if someone entered your home, and you did something to make them mad, so they did something to you?

What a sucker.

Man what?

Stan, did bullies pick on you a lot when you were young?

Since you made a twisted analogy out of something I said, Dude, let's say you broke into another country. And there are a bunch of guys, pointing guns at you, are you, the burglar, more apt to shoot at people pointing guns at you or ones that pretty much mind their own business.

What a sucker.

[Edited on 2-8-2005 by Stanley Burrell]

Okay, it's kinda early and I don't feel like fucking with commas and conjunctions so I'll do it this way.

Someone breaks into your home.

You do something that makes said person mad.

Someone does something harmful to you

So you:

A) Feel responsible

or

B) Feel like the guy had no business in your home in the first place.

If your answer to the question is A then you are:

A) A sucker

B) A pussy

C) A Dumbass

D) All of the above.

A country whos owners are grateful for our aid, who a select minority have issue with, where many of them are from other countries, and have killed FAR more natives to the country than U.S. personnel in said country. I dont think it is simmilar at all.

Twisted? It's what you said. As for your analogy I'm not really following. The country part is throwing me off, but if I broke into a house with a gun then chances are you're fucked either way.

I don't do retarded shit to aggravate the offender in the first place.

[Edited on 2-8-2005 by Stanley Burrell]

So I take it you've never been in a situation where an aggressor is hardly the epitome of reason, and is not neccessarily willing to be sensible and polite in his unlawful endeavors.

Mang just let them take the TV.
Fuck the offender and feeling guily or shit, you are going to exponentially increase your chances of ending up dead by instigating them with another threat.

Eh, as if Tv theft is the only crime that occurs in this great nation of ours.

[Ben]

I'd be 1000 times more likely to stab one of you guys as shoot you.

[Edited on 2-8-2005 by Ben]

[Neildo]

I'm for gun control. Anyone who isn't is living in a dream world.

- N

Originally posted by RangerD1
Okay, it's kinda early and I don't feel like fucking with commas and conjunctions so I'll do it this way.

Someone breaks into your home.

You do something that makes said person mad.

Someone does something harmful to you

So you:

A) Feel responsible

or

B) Feel like the guy had no business in your home in the first place.

If your answer to the question is A then you are:

A) A sucker

B) A pussy

C) A Dumbass

D) All of the above.

I'd rather be the following:

A) A sucker

B A pussy

C) A dumbass

D) All of the above

And still be the fuck alive.

Go stick that in your fucking gun and shoot it.

Originally posted by Dave
A country whos owners are grateful for our aid, who a select minority have issue with, where many of them are from other countries, and have killed FAR more natives to the country than U.S. personnel in said country. I dont think it is simmilar at all.

Seriously, do you believe any of this garbage that you're spewing?

Originally posted by Neildo
I'm for gun control. Anyone who isn't is living in a dream world.

- N

I am in most respects. I think that in some situations it can be an excellent tool for getting rid of idiots. Yes, it's unfortunate that little Timmy found daddy's revolver and blew his little head off, but that's natural selection for ya!

Ain't this some dumb shit.

You're some retard living in Appalachia who spends their last $700 bucks on a fucking piece of penis insecurity equipment when you live in the shittiest of neighborhoods, when that money could actually have been spent on something like clothes for your kids.

People complain too much.

Wait, Stan.. So you're telling me..

You're at your place late at night with your significant other. All of a sudden the glass suddenly shatters. You wake up groggily to see that some psycho has decided to let himself into your place. Does he want a TV? Fuck no, he wants to have his way with your girl/whatever. She's obviously not willing, but you'd be okay with it just not to "piss him off"? Fuck that man, if that ever happened to me, I'd love to take the son of a bitch down. Pretty fucking pathetic if you ask me.

- Arkans

Yea right stan, because criminals always go after those who are the most prepared to confront them. Talk about a dream world.

[peam]

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell
You're some retard living in Appalachia

What's wrong with Appalachia?

[StrayRogue]

Hulkein said it right. Gun Control would never work in America because theres already so many guns, illegal and otherwise there. It works in Europe because there aren't that many.

[Warriorbird]

Doesn't actually work that well in Europe.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by Neildo
I'm for gun control. Anyone who isn't is living in a dream world.

- N

Depends on how far your "gun control" goes. I see no reason why the average American has a right to bear assault rifles. I do see a reason why the average American has the right to bear arms.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Warriorbird
Doesn't actually work that well in Europe.

Armed crime is nowhere near the same in Europe as it is in America.

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell

Originally posted by Dave
A country whos owners are grateful for our aid, who a select minority have issue with, where many of them are from other countries, and have killed FAR more natives to the country than U.S. personnel in said country. I dont think it is simmilar at all.

Seriously, do you believe any of this garbage that you're spewing?


I think it is obvious that I do or I would not be where I am today would I?
I believe what we are doing is so right that I was willing to join the Army during war, knowing and hoping I would be able to take my part in it. What will you do for your convictions?

[StrayRogue]

I believe its just as brave to stand up and say you disagree with a war/conflict than it is to say you agree with it and go fight for it. Just because you aren't risking life and limb does not mean you are not brave or standing up for your convictions. And I agree, what you said was total brainwashed dogma. FYI, in the first months of the war, the UK lost more men to American friendly fire than any Iraqi.

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Stanley Burrell

Originally posted by Dave
A country whos owners are grateful for our aid, who a select minority have issue with, where many of them are from other countries, and have killed FAR more natives to the country than U.S. personnel in said country. I dont think it is simmilar at all.

Seriously, do you believe any of this garbage that you're spewing?


I think it is obvious that I do or I would not be where I am today would I?
I believe what we are doing is so right that I was willing to join the Army during war, knowing and hoping I would be able to take my part in it. What will you do for your convictions?

What the fuck does this meaningless drivel have to do with gun control? Fuck off with your "I <3 Irak wor" shit.

[CrystalTears]

I'm all for gun control. I have no problem people having a gun in their home to protect their home and family.

I DO have a problem with people who don't educate their children about guns. I have a problem with people who feel they NEED a rifle instead of just a handgun (unless they're hunters).

We currently don't have a gun, but it doesn't mean we're not protected in some way. There's a rapier in the living room, a baseball bat behind the couch, a box cutter on the bedside table and some other gadgets scattered around the home. Eventually when we move into a house we'll ultimately get the gun.

[Parkbandit]

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I'm all for gun control. I have no problem people having a gun in their home to protect their home and family.

I DO have a problem with people who don't educate their children about guns. I have a problem with people who feel they NEED a rifle instead of just a handgun (unless they're hunters).

We currently don't have a gun, but it doesn't mean we're not protected in some way. There's a rapier in the living room, a baseball bat behind the couch, a box cutter on the bedside table and some other gadgets scattered around the home. Eventually when we move into a house we'll ultimately get the gun.

EVERYONE KNOWS RAPIERS SUCK MAN! GET A FALCHION!

Sorry.. I had the need.

FYI, in the first months of the war, the UK lost more men to American friendly fire than any Iraqi

The infatry has shot at me so many times it's fucking ridiculas. The best one was when some infantry XO called up a mortar position on top of our position in Fallujah and the marines started to bombard the area with artillery rounds. We were pretty lucky no one got waxed.

[StrayRogue]

Originally posted by Parkbandit

Originally posted by CrystalTears
I'm all for gun control. I have no problem people having a gun in their home to protect their home and family.

I DO have a problem with people who don't educate their children about guns. I have a problem with people who feel they NEED a rifle instead of just a handgun (unless they're hunters).

We currently don't have a gun, but it doesn't mean we're not protected in some way. There's a rapier in the living room, a baseball bat behind the couch, a box cutter on the bedside table and some other gadgets scattered around the home. Eventually when we move into a house we'll ultimately get the gun.

EVERYONE KNOWS RAPIERS SUCK MAN! GET A FALCHION!

Sorry.. I had the need.

They're better since GS4. But I agree. A complete ban of guns in the US is unlikely. However, a decent respect and education of such weapons should be provided. We don't want little Timmie blowing his head off accidently with Pa's 12 gauge now do we?

Originally posted by Nieninque

What the fuck does this meaningless drivel have to do with gun control? Fuck off with your "I <3 Irak wor" shit.

I was not the one who brought it up in the first place, go lick stans balls and get off mine.

[i]Originally posted by StrayRogue
A complete ban of guns in the US is unlikely. However, a decent respect and education of such weapons should be provided. We don't want little Timmie blowing his head off accidently with Pa's 12 gauge now do we?

I agree with you 100% stray. I grew up in a house with weapons in it, my father made sure I knew what I was and was not supposed to do with them at a very young age. The weapons were also locked. Added gun control laws in the U.S. are pointless, we have the laws and they need to be enforced. Adding more laws will not stop the crimes commited with guns, most are commited with unregistered weapons anyways.

[Edited on 2-8-2005 by Dave]

[Nieninque]

If guns are more widely available, it is easier to get them through illegal methods. It's not rocket science.

Sure there is gun crime in the UK and Europe, but as it is illegal to own a gun in most cases, it makes it a damn sight harder to obtain a gun, illegally or otherwise and subsequently gun-related crime is much much lower per capita. Knife-related crime....now that's a different matter.

How many tragedies have occured in the US where kids have gotten hold of daddies gun in spite of daddy taking the preparations everyone thinks a responsible gun owner should?

[Stealth]

I believe in gun control and possession laws strongly. I strongly believe all people should have to attend a gun safety class..kids included. I strongly believe that all households should be required to have a gun inside them for self-defense.

All of this crap about "I would not do anything to anger the aggressor" is a whole different story when you are sitting there watching some guy with a knife hold your girlfriend down and fuck her in the ass while she screams at you and wants to know why you aren't helping.

I will give you a perfect example from my childhood. I and my nephew went over to the neighbor's house to give her her Christmas gifts. I was 10 and he was about 5 or so. On our way, one of the neighborhood Rotweilers got off of its chain and out of its fenced yard and tried to attack my nephew. As it was chasing him down in the yard and trying to maul him, my dad pulled out his 12 gauge shotgun and blew it away.

Sorry, I prefer to have my gun and protect myself rather than rely on the misguided notion that simply outlawing guns will make us safe. It won't. All it will do is make it so people don't use guns to commit crimes. If someone kills you with a butcher knife or a baseball bat, you are still just as dead. Shall we ban butcher knives and baseball bats next?



Stealth

"Gun control means hitting your target."

[CrystalTears]

Originally posted by Nieninque
How many tragedies have occured in the US where kids have gotten hold of daddies gun in spite of daddy taking the preparations everyone thinks a responsible gun owner should?

You tell us, since usually when the education and preparation is done responsibly and correctly, they don't accidentally kill themselves.

Telling a child "this is where the gun is and you're not allowed to touch it" is not gun awareness.

[Nieninque]

It worked for Dave :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Nieninque
If guns are more widely available, it is easier to get them through illegal methods. It's not rocket science.

Sure there is gun crime in the UK and Europe, but as it is illegal to own a gun in most cases, it makes it a damn sight harder to obtain a gun, illegally or otherwise and subsequently gun-related crime is much much lower per capita. Knife-related crime....now that's a different matter.

How many tragedies have occured in the US where kids have gotten hold of daddies gun in spite of daddy taking the preparations everyone thinks a responsible gun owner should?

less that die in house fires started by kitchen stoves. Gotta ban them too.

Originally posted by Nieninque
It worked for Dave :rolleyes:

my father showed me how to use it, what not to do with it, imformed me that it would always be locked up and made sure that I knew that It was not a toy and I was not to play with it. I as a child was also not allowed to play with toy guns.
which I blame my mother for my current situation (that was a joke)

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave

Originally posted by Nieninque
It worked for Dave :rolleyes:

my father showed me how to use it, what not to do with it, imformed me that it would always be locked up and made sure that I knew that It was not a toy and I was not to play with it. I as a child was also not allowed to play with toy guns.
which I blame my mother for my current situation (that was a joke)

That would explain the nancy pose in your avatar.

perhaps, though I never carried my rifle back home in a tactical weapons sling.

So you give me crap for responding to stan, yet your not talking about gun control at all are you? You're just showing your dislike for me by insulting me. I almost get the feeling you dont like me.

I also get the feeling you have never even held or fired a real gun

[Edited on 2-8-2005 by Dave]

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Daveless that die in house fires started by kitchen stoves. Gotta ban them too.

Way to come up with a moronic answer. Nice one Sherlock.

Hey...about 30 people in the UK die from falling out of bed each year (strange but true)....LETS BAN BEDS!!!!!

[Nieninque]

Originally posted by Dave
perhaps, though I never carried my rifle back home in a tactical weapons sling.

So you give me crap for responding to stan, yet your not talking about gun control at all are you? You're just showing your dislike for me by insulting me. I almost get the feeling you dont like me.

I dont like the fact that you present yourself as an authority on anything related to arms/army/international relations/politics and give an air of having presented irrefutable proof whenever you post, when actually, you never do.

I am also afraid of the fact that for someone in whom the US leaders have entrusted with the safety and security of other people, and allowed the use of firearms in order to achieve the task, you seem to be fucking illiterate and make the most fundamental spelling mistakes that I would question whether or not you have learning disabilities.


I also get the feeling you have never even held or fired a real gun

[Edited on 2-8-2005 by Dave]

I come from an army family.
I have fired air rifles.
I have fired SLRs
I have fired browning pistols as used by British Army officers (not sure of caliber)
I have fired SA-80's
I have fired GPMG's.
I have thrown a hand grenade.

Does that validate my opinion now?
I would hope it didnt make any difference.
I dont need to kill someone to know that it's wrong.

[pennywise]

I have a problem with people who feel they NEED a rifle instead of just a handgun (unless they're hunters).

I think I would rather everyone have a rifle instead of a handgun. Not exactly easy to sneak that 30-06 with a 24" barrel into the quicky mart, or the bar. And I mean, come on, think about the comedy effect of a guy walking around the street with a concealed rifle in his pants.

And, though I am a gun person in most senses (ie Im a serious hunter, I have a conceal and carry permit, I own more than 5 guns) I am happy that no one without a class III license can own a full auto, and I wish there were greater punishments for illegally owning or modifying them. But, thats just me, I guess.

[DeV]

I am for Americans having the right to bear arms but there must also exist with it a sense of urgency to increase education for kids to adults and intensify penalties(jail/prison time) for those found carrying weapons illegally.

I would rather rifles than handguns as well but see no need for regular citizens to carry semi and automatic assault rifles.

[CrystalTears]

I think I would rather everyone have a rifle instead of a handgun. Not exactly easy to sneak that 30-06 with a 24" barrel into the quicky mart, or the bar. And I mean, come on, think about the comedy effect of a guy walking around the street with a concealed rifle in his pants.

Heh, you're right, and my fiance and I have discussed how rifles should be preferred since hiding them would be that much harder and anyone who stands there after hearing the cocking of a rifle is either stupid or already dead. :D


I would rather rifles than handguns as well but see no need for regular citizens to carry semi and automatic assault rifles.

This is more of what I meant in regards to rifles. :)

[pennywise]

I figured, but I had to share the image of the conceal and carry kentucky long rifle.

[xtc]

I think culture must play a large part in crimes involving guns. Canada has more guns per capita than America but far fewer crimes involving guns per capita.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by xtc
I think culture must play a large part in crimes involving guns. Canada has more guns per capita than America but far fewer crimes involving guns per capita. I'll post it again.

http://www.hardylaw.net/FailedExperiment.pdf

I don't care that I'm not getting shot if I'm getting stabbed in the throat. I'm still dead, and not pleasantly so. Banning guns CLEARLY does not reduce violent crimes, per capita. Canada and the U.S. are so close as to be practically indistinguishable. The U.K. and the U.S., on the other hand...

[StrayRogue]

I doubt the numbers in that report. Case in point it says "Homicide rates between 1990 and 2000 were at 15 million". 15 million PER YEAR????! I doubt that.

After the Dunblane incident, when ownership of handguns was prohibited, the crime involving guns went up for the year and year after. This next part is taken from a report released by the Kings College, "the number of crimes in which a handgun was reported increased from 2,648 in 1997/98 to 3,685 in 1999/2000". Thats crimes not deaths. So unless each one of those crimes resulted in a death, and mass death, its nowhere near 1 million per year.

In 2002/2003, there were 81 firearm fatalities compared with 49 in 1998/1999 - in 2001/2002 there were 97. In 2003, Birmingham Alabama had a firearm murder rate of 70 per year.

While crime involving guns is on the rise in the UK and in Europe, I highly doubt the numbers in that study.



[Edited on 8-2-05 by StrayRogue]

[Edited on 8-2-05 by StrayRogue]

[xtc]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I doubt the numbers in that report. Case in point it says "Homicide rates between 1990 and 2000 were at 15 million". 15 million PER YEAR????! I doubt that.

After the Dunblane incident, when ownership of handguns was prohibited, the crime involving guns went up for the year and year after. This next part is taken from a report released by the Kings College, "the number of crimes in which a handgun was reported increased from 2,648 in 1997/98 to 3,685 in 1999/2000". Thats crimes not deaths. So unless each one of those crimes resulted in a death, and mass death, its nowhere near 1 million per year.

In 2002/2003, there were 81 firearm fatalities compared with 49 in 1998/1999 - in 2001/2002 there were 97. In 2003, Birmingham Alabama had a firearm murder rate of 70 per year.

While crime involving guns is on the rise in the UK and in Europe, I highly doubt the numbers in that study.



[Edited on 8-2-05 by StrayRogue]

[Edited on 8-2-05 by StrayRogue]

You misread it, it read "the homicide rate jumped 50% going from 10 PER million in 1990 to 15 PER million in 2000. In other words 10 homicides per 1 million citizens increased to 15 homicides per 1 million citizens.

These statistics were taken in England which has gun control yet homicides have increased.

[Valthissa]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
I doubt the numbers in that report. Case in point it says "Homicide rates between 1990 and 2000 were at 15 million". 15 million PER YEAR????! I doubt that.




that would be 15 per million....

C/Valth

[StrayRogue]

Fair enough. How many people live in the UK? How many live in Birmingham Alabama. Unless it has a population nearing 60 million people, the numbers speak for themselves.

[StrayRogue]

Oh and some more numbers:

In 1998, 3,792 American children and teens (19 and under) died by gunfire in murders, suicides and unintentional shootings. That's more than 10 young people a day.

During 1999, 52% of all murder victims under 18 in the U.S. were killed by guns. In 1986, guns were used in 38% of such murders. In 1999, 82% of murder victims aged 13 to 19 years old were killed with a firearm.

Medical costs of gun violence put a terrible burden on health service providers and governments. When indirect costs of gun violence - loss of productivity, mental health treatment and rehabilitation, legal and judicial costs - are figured in, gun violence costs the US over $100 billion annually.


Anyway, I've already said owning guns and the notion that "I'll get them before they get me", is a stupid one. But I'm also rational and Guns being banned in the US is very unlikely. More education, however, is something I'd be happy to see on the matter.

[Latrinsorm]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
In 1998, 3,792 American children and teens (19 and under) died by gunfire in murders, suicides and unintentional shootings. That's more than 10 young people a day.The only relevant part of that is unintentional shootings, as it's a lot easier to unintentionally shoot someone than to stab them. That's why most folks are keen on the idea of education, and testing, and so on.
During 1999, 52% of all murder victims under 18 in the U.S. were killed by guns. In 1986, guns were used in 38% of such murders. In 1999, 82% of murder victims aged 13 to 19 years old were killed with a firearm.The goal is not to have less people killed with guns. The goal is to have less people killed period. As the study indicates, banning guns does not cause less people to be killed. It doesn't even cause less people to be hurt. Your disbelief of the numbers does not make them less true. If you can find evidence of the author simply making numbers up then I'll listen.

[xtc]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Oh and some more numbers:

In 1998, 3,792 American children and teens (19 and under) died by gunfire in murders, suicides and unintentional shootings. That's more than 10 young people a day.

During 1999, 52% of all murder victims under 18 in the U.S. were killed by guns. In 1986, guns were used in 38% of such murders. In 1999, 82% of murder victims aged 13 to 19 years old were killed with a firearm.

Medical costs of gun violence put a terrible burden on health service providers and governments. When indirect costs of gun violence - loss of productivity, mental health treatment and rehabilitation, legal and judicial costs - are figured in, gun violence costs the US over $100 billion annually.


Anyway, I've already said owning guns and the notion that "I'll get them before they get me", is a stupid one. But I'm also rational and Guns being banned in the US is very unlikely. More education, however, is something I'd be happy to see on the matter.

I think the problem is gun control doesn't work as the study clearly points out. Reducing violent crime due to gun violence is a goal to work towards but lets not waste time, money and resources on measures that don't work.

[StrayRogue]

Are you two selectively blind?

"Anyway, I've already said owning guns and the notion that "I'll get them before they get me", is a stupid one. But I'm also rational and Guns being banned in the US is very unlikely. More education, however, is something I'd be happy to see on the matter. "

[xtc]

Originally posted by StrayRogue
Are you two selectively blind?



Ok, after you thought that study read 15 million homicides, your comment is rich.

There is difference between gun control and banning all guns. You can be for gun control and against a ban on guns.

It wasn't until I read your other posts that I realised that you weren't for gun control.

[Scott]

<<<<How many tragedies have occured in the US where kids have gotten hold of daddies gun in spite of daddy taking the preparations everyone thinks a responsible gun owner should? >>>>

Zero? A trigger lock and a locked cabinet is going to prevent a kid from firing that gun. Every single one of my guns now contain a trigger lock and are locked in a cabinet for when my nephews come over. A responsible gun owner is going to do that.

I'm sure I could put a loaded gun on the table when my nephews come over and they wouldn't touch it, but I'd rather not take the chance. Unfortunately a lot of people do take that chance. I'm all for gun education, but getting rid of guns.... no.

How many tragedies have occured in the US where kids have gotten hold of daddies gun in spite of daddy taking the preparations everyone thinks a responsible gun owner should?


^


I dunno how many?

[Warriorbird]

To be blatantly liberal, I think more tragedies occur because parents damn well don't stress the sanctity of life... or teach empathy well enough in the home. Reasonable precautions stop most little kids. It's the idiot 15 year olds who get pistols bought for them by mom and dad that're the problem, and so on.